S-FM 185 Some Random Scenario [Archive]

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 10:21 AM

So how is everyone, once you come on :).

Anyways, now this has started.

Calix

Lets get this going, so Calix, what do you think about the setup?.

Time to OMGUS

Mikecall

Man, we should probably come up with more original RVS votes. Makes us hard to read...and that would be terrible ;)

Don't know about you, but I love my 4v2 Day 1 MYLOs...only with three roles that can prevent kills. That is obviously there to help the Jester.

We can't keep track of our actions with Last Wills so we are going to have to crumb our actions somehow in the event that we die. (obviously not going to say how that's accomplished, only that it should be done)

I'll say this now: No shitty gambits please.

Also I have no idea why Town Guy would ever want to Uninvest someone when they could choose to heal or undo any witching instead. How does making someone immune to Mafia/ Jester investigations help us?

Finally (for now) I don't think Town Girls should try to undo a Roleblock. Night actions aren't the by-all-end-all to this game, so slavishly listening to the feedback above all is going to cause problems, especially when you have two Witch-ability roles.

Just because people have multiple actions doesn't mean that they have to be used every night.

Those are my first impressions. I'll be back in a bit to either do more setup spec or jump straight into pedantic 'scum-hunting'. Enjoy!

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 10:27 AM

Time to OMGUS

Mikecall

Man, we should probably come up with more original RVS votes. Makes us hard to read...and that would be terrible ;)

Don't know about you, but I love my 4v2 Day 1 MYLOs...only with three roles that can prevent kills. That is obviously there to help the Jester.

We can't keep track of our actions with Last Wills so we are going to have to crumb our actions somehow in the event that we die. (obviously not going to say how that's accomplished, only that it should be done)

I'll say this now: No shitty gambits please.

Also I have no idea why Town Guy would ever want to Uninvest someone when they could choose to heal or undo any witching instead. How does making someone immune to Mafia/ Jester investigations help us?

Finally (for now) I don't think Town Girls should try to undo a Roleblock. Night actions aren't the by-all-end-all to this game, so slavishly listening to the feedback above all is going to cause problems, especially when you have two Witch-ability roles.

Just because people have multiple actions doesn't mean that they have to be used every night.

Those are my first impressions. I'll be back in a bit to either do more setup spec or jump straight into pedantic 'scum-hunting'. Enjoy!

But I wonder if you will pick up the new playstyle I am attempting ;),

But on the other hand, its rather 4v1v1 with the potential of jester have the capability of preventing the town and the mafia from winning, I would say we would have to narrow down potentially who could be the jester girl and see for ourselves what the invests might supply with at night.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 10:29 AM

But I wonder if you will pick up the new playstyle I am attempting ;),

But on the other hand, its rather 4v1v1 with the potential of jester have the capability of preventing the town and the mafia from winning, I would say we would have to narrow down potentially who could be the jester girl and see for ourselves what the invests might supply with at night.

But to add to my point, I would suggest for a no lynch, this is because if we do a lynch, we are prone to going into lylo suituation in which would put us in a bad position.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 10:31 AM

But I wonder if you will pick up the new playstyle I am attempting ;),

But on the other hand, its rather 4v1v1 with the potential of jester have the capability of preventing the town and the mafia from winning, I would say we would have to narrow down potentially who could be the jester girl and see for ourselves what the invests might supply with at night.

New as in, 'three shades of scum that Mikecall calls playstyle variations' or have you added a fourth flavour? :)

If there's one thing that can unite town and mafia, it's jester-hunting. I'm not going to discuss what the jester will do (don't want to tip them off, after all) so let's save the speculating on mafia/ jester strategy until we have more clues.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 10:32 AM

But to add to my point, I would suggest for a no lynch, this is because if we do a lynch, we are prone to going into lylo suituation in which would put us in a bad position.

Your proposal of No-Lynching when the game hasn't even breached its first hour (thus weakening the power of pressure votes) is scummy. Why would you bring this up now?

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 10:36 AM

Your proposal of No-Lynching when the game hasn't even breached its first hour (thus weakening the power of pressure votes) is scummy. Why would you bring this up now?

I rather bring this up to mind because if we did continue with voting someone off, having a 4/6 chance of it being town and 1 or 2 chance of it being scum, continuing with the lynch would be more devastating in a 2v1v1 suituation.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 10:43 AM

New as in, 'three shades of scum that Mikecall calls playstyle variations' or have you added a fourth flavour? :)

If there's one thing that can unite town and mafia, it's jester-hunting. I'm not going to discuss what the jester will do (don't want to tip them off, after all) so let's save the speculating on mafia/ jester strategy until we have more clues.

For your first point, "Its Fifth".

For your second point, I semi agree with this, the only thing I dont like is how you are saying leaving the mafia / jester strategy for later, why not work on this now? seems a bit scummy in my opinion.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 10:49 AM

Hi.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 10:51 AM

Welcome, do you think you can answer the question I said before, would be appreciated :).

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 10:51 AM

I've always wanted to vote TDL. Now's my chance. TheDarkestLight

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 10:52 AM

Welcome, do you think you can answer the question I said before, would be appreciated :).
I can't be bothered right now. Be there in a bit.

TheDarkestLight

March 18th, 2016, 11:02 AM

-Insert Introductory Post Here-

Ya'll fuckas be cray cray, thinking this is Mylo, that suggests that the Mafia and Jester can work together.

They can't.

Look at the Jester Win condition.

Jester Girl wins by getting herself lynched, ruining the game and prevent anyone else to win.

Why would the Mafia ever work with the Jester because of this?

Also, even if that wasn't the case, it's impossible for the jester to win with the Mafia unless the town gamethrows at the end.

Lets say we lynch a town today...

We have at least one townie who can stop a kill, potentially two, so that kill has a good chance of failing.

But let's say it goes through.

2v1v1.

The Jester and Mafia won't work together, if they did that instantly reveals the Jester and he can't win unless both the Mafioso and the town gamethrow. At that point the Jester HAS to get a town lynched, but since he and the Mafioso don't have a majority he'd have to act like a townperson to accomplish said mislynch and then hope that the last town is a guy who unkills him and he has to unkill the last town in hopes that he can trick both the town and mafia into voting him, or he can just try to outscum the mafioso that day to get himself lynched, which I get the feeling the Mafioso won't vote to do if he suspects the person is the Jester.

Yeah, that's super unreasonable. I'm pretty sure that unless the Jester is lynched today he won't win this game.

Not to mention the fact that I'm pretty sure a single night of night actions is all we need to clean this game up.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 12:22 PM

For your first point, "Its Fifth".

For your second point, I semi agree with this, the only thing I dont like is how you are saying leaving the mafia / jester strategy for later, why not work on this now? seems a bit scummy in my opinion.

Why would we ever want to coach the scum on optimal strategy? Let the scum flounder around like the plebeians they are while town can make themselves obvious for POE purposes.

-Insert Introductory Post Here-

Ya'll fuckas be cray cray, thinking this is Mylo, that suggests that the Mafia and Jester can work together.

I said it was MYLO because if we don't lynch the Mafia today, we will have to rely on the Jester's vote to get the majority needed (unless they die) so that doesn't sit well with me.

Mafia's win condition requires the Jester to be night-killed, lol. That's no walk in the park either.

(I have read the rest of your post and I agree that the night actions taken will be important to log.)

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 12:31 PM

Game Mechanic :

Day and nights last 48 hours and players may talk in both of them.
Game starts on Day 1.
Night can be shortened by 24 hours, only if majority requests so by voting the host.*

Also I just noticed this.

I am going to be OP this game.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 12:33 PM

Are you scum, Mikecall? ):
Mikecall

TheDarkestLight

March 18th, 2016, 12:44 PM

Why would we ever want to coach the scum on optimal strategy? Let the scum flounder around like the plebeians they are while town can make themselves obvious for POE purposes.

I said it was MYLO because if we don't lynch the Mafia today, we will have to rely on the Jester's vote to get the majority needed (unless they die) so that doesn't sit well with me.

Mafia's win condition requires the Jester to be night-killed, lol. That's no walk in the park either.

(I have read the rest of your post and I agree that the night actions taken will be important to log.)

I don't personally agree with hiding strategy, as anyone with half a brain could come up with said plans. It takes a little more brainpower to come up with a counterplan, and we need to work together on those. There is no reason to be hiding anything at all.

Also, it's not hard to get said jester's vote, and also like I said, we have a potential for three heals if the Jester decides to heal, which would be optimal for him as he needs a larger town to get lynched, but it's also optimal for us.

Really this game is pretty straight forward.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 12:53 PM

Can we not turn this into yet another game where people spam about mechanics all day long without doing any actual analysis?

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 12:53 PM

I don't personally agree with hiding strategy, as anyone with half a brain could come up with said plans. It takes a little more brainpower to come up with a counterplan, and we need to work together on those. There is no reason to be hiding anything at all.

Also, it's not hard to get said jester's vote, and also like I said, we have a potential for three heals if the Jester decides to heal, which would be optimal for him as he needs a larger town to get lynched, but it's also optimal for us.

Really this game is pretty straight forward.

I vaguely recall someone, I cannot remember who, telling me abut the intelligence of the sc2mafia playerbase. If only I could remember who that person was :)

I don't know what type of strategy you refer to, but if you mean 'let's tell the scum how to act in the day chat', then no, there is absolutely no good reason to be coaching them in the interests of 'full disclosure'. The end.

If you're referring to night actions, then I agree that it doesn't take a genius to figure out those. However (as I learnt) we have a night chat. Why not save the serious talk about night actions until then? We will have information (from day chat or/ and lynch) that will better inform us. I think we should postpone dwelling on this in too much detail and try to pinpoint everyone's alignment first.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 12:54 PM

Can we not turn this into yet another game where people spam about mechanics all day long without doing any actual analysis?

Perhaps you should check your own posts first before you criticise anyone else's. Why do you think Mikecall has the potential to be scummy?

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 12:56 PM

Calix is Town Guy.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 12:57 PM

Perhaps you should check your own posts first before you criticise anyone else's. Why do you think Mikecall has the potential to be scummy?
Because I'm that good and you know it. Don't make me explain things before they achieve their desired effect.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 12:58 PM

Calix is Town Guy.

You are trying to be as scummy as possible. Interesting.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 12:59 PM

You are trying to be as scummy as possible. Interesting.
Piss off. How is saying you are town scummy?

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 01:02 PM

Piss off. How is saying you are town scummy?

Now Sen attempts to throw off Calix with feigned anger.

If you wanted to say I was town, you wouldn't have felt the need to announce my potential role alongside it.

TheDarkestLight

March 18th, 2016, 01:02 PM

I vaguely recall someone, I cannot remember who, telling me abut the intelligence of the sc2mafia playerbase. If only I could remember who that person was :)

I don't know what type of strategy you refer to, but if you mean 'let's tell the scum how to act in the day chat', then no, there is absolutely no good reason to be coaching them in the interests of 'full disclosure'. The end.

If you're referring to night actions, then I agree that it doesn't take a genius to figure out those. However (as I learnt) we have a night chat. Why not save the serious talk about night actions until then? We will have information (from day chat or/ and lynch) that will better inform us. I think we should postpone dwelling on this in too much detail and try to pinpoint everyone's alignment first.

There's stupid and then there's helpless, the people here aren't the latter.

Also, telling them how to act in day chat is useful actually, because if they follow it then it's quite obvious what's happening.

And talk about alignments, alright, sure, who would you label as Mafia and Jester so far? Sure not much has been posted, but still, based on the limited info so far.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:02 PM

Are you scum, Mikecall? ):
Mikecall

I see you didnt read my comment before about playstyle -_-

And the way you just justify me being scum, I want to hear more from you,

Sen

Also I have noticed, you didnt take note from my question I said before. Very interesting indeed.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:02 PM

If you wanted to say I was town, you wouldn't have felt the need to announce my potential role alongside it.
Oh, but I do.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:03 PM

I see you didnt read my comment before about playstyle -_-

And the way you just justify me being scum, I want to hear more from you,

Sen

Also I have noticed, you didnt take note from my question I said before. Very interesting indeed.
I've never justified you being scum. What are you talking about?
As for your question, i already said I'm not gonna spend the day discussing mechanics. We're here to scumhunt.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 01:07 PM

There's stupid and then there's helpless, the people here aren't the latter.

Also, telling them how to act in day chat is useful actually, because if they follow it then it's quite obvious what's happening.

And talk about alignments, alright, sure, who would you label as Mafia and Jester so far? Sure not much has been posted, but still, based on the limited info so far.

Just you wait if secondpleb is scum, lol.

Coaching is never a good thing. That allows them to know what town's expectations for scummy behaviour are and come up with counter-plans. The only thing I'm telling the scum is who I think the Jester is.

Sen is typing in very short, blunt posts and he's resorting to 'anger' quicker than he usually does. Either Jester or Mafia/ Town WIFOM-ing Jester...for reasons...from his current posts. I don't know if the Mafia Guy has logged on yet as nobody is giving me that vibe.

What about you?

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 01:08 PM

I've never justified you being scum. What are you talking about?
As for your question, i already said I'm not gonna spend the day discussing mechanics. We're here to scumhunt.

Exhibit A: Watch him posture about scum-hunting, meanwhile doing no scum-hunting.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:09 PM

You got me, I'm the Jester. Now remove that vote, Mikecall.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:10 PM

Exhibit A: Watch him posture about scum-hunting, meanwhile doing no scum-hunting.
Lots of misreps from you this time. I'm solving the game while you discuss random setup crap, but sure, I'm not scumhunting at all.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 01:12 PM

You got me, I'm the Jester. Now remove that vote, Mikecall.

Considering that the Mafia can just night-kill you

...and that's diverting the kill from the Jester if you're WIFOM-ing as town

...and if you don't die you just look like a Mafia member, thus ensuring that the Mafia has to kill you if you're not Mafia

...I can't see the advantages to this play.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:12 PM

You got me, I'm the Jester. Now remove that vote, Mikecall.

And you would blatantly reveal this early, -_- you do forget I am still sticking with my no lynch moto. Just wanted to see how you would react.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 01:14 PM

And you would blatantly reveal this early, -_- you do forget I am still sticking with my no lynch moto. Just wanted to see how you would react.

Mikecall is sticking to his guns? I'm proud :')

What alignment do you think Sen is the most likely to be and why?

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:15 PM

...I can't see the advantages to this play.
Funny coming from someone so interested in setup spam.
I'm not dying tonight, like, at all.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:16 PM

Mikecall is sticking to his guns? I'm proud :')

What alignment do you think Sen is the most likely to be and why?

Probably knowing him, either a person who would want to divert attention away from himself, giving a hunch, hes probably either the mafia member or potentially one of the town.

Wouldnt class him as the jester unless hes trying some WIFOM to get himself lynched, and I aint buying it.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:22 PM

Can we not turn this into yet another game where people spam about mechanics all day long without doing any actual analysis?

Game mechanics are equally as important as scum hunting, allowing for further analysis on how we can approach this game. Thats whats fun about the game.

TheDarkestLight

March 18th, 2016, 01:32 PM

Just you wait if secondpleb is scum, lol.

Coaching is never a good thing. That allows them to know what town's expectations for scummy behaviour are and come up with counter-plans. The only thing I'm telling the scum is who I think the Jester is.

Sen is typing in very short, blunt posts and he's resorting to 'anger' quicker than he usually does. Either Jester or Mafia/ Town WIFOM-ing Jester...for reasons...from his current posts. I don't know if the Mafia Guy has logged on yet as nobody is giving me that vibe.

What about you?

It allows deeper insight, and I'm unsure of what you mean by "Wait for SP to be scum". Is SP super bad?

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:35 PM

Game mechanics are equally as important as scum hunting, allowing for further analysis on how we can approach this game. Thats whats fun about the game.
I'm not saying they aren't important. My issue is that there's been a late trend of trying to leave the whole game up to night actions, and that's boring as fuck. Right now we could probably break this if we wanted to.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:38 PM

I'm not saying they aren't important. My issue is that there's been a late trend of trying to leave the whole game up to night actions, and that's boring as fuck. Right now we could probably break this if we wanted to.

We could, but we also got the chance of wrongly killing town or killing jester, being the probability of 4/6 for town, and 2/6 for scum.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 01:40 PM

We could, but we also got the chance of wrongly killing town or killing jester, being the probability of 4/6 for town, and 2/6 for scum.

Hence why night actions are sigularily important, since it can confirm or not confirm an individual for being scum, yes we can get a lot from discussion, which is very adviceable, however, to backup cases, leaving a night can be a lot more helpful in the long run. Considering even if a town dies, we would already be in a good position with some information regarding actions.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:45 PM

We could, but we also got the chance of wrongly killing town or killing jester, being the probability of 4/6 for town, and 2/6 for scum.
I'd agree if this was a game of chance. It is not; that's why we have a chat.

And the chances of lynching a Jester would be exactly 0% if we attempt to focus on nothing but mechanics; in the best possible scenarion, we'd bave a 33% chance of winning d1. In the worts, we'd simply go with a no-lynch and no biggie. Anyway, this is exactly what I don't want this game to turn into.

secondpassing

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 01:46 PM

scenario* have*
God, I need a drink. Will be back in a few.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 01:54 PM

Time to OMGUS

Mikecall

Man, we should probably come up with more original RVS votes. Makes us hard to read...and that would be terrible ;)

Don't know about you, but I love my 4v2 Day 1 MYLOs...only with three roles that can prevent kills. That is obviously there to help the Jester.

We can't keep track of our actions with Last Wills so we are going to have to crumb our actions somehow in the event that we die. (obviously not going to say how that's accomplished, only that it should be done)

I'll say this now: No shitty gambits please.

Also I have no idea why Town Guy would ever want to Uninvest someone when they could choose to heal or undo any witching instead. How does making someone immune to Mafia/ Jester investigations help us?

Finally (for now) I don't think Town Girls should try to undo a Roleblock. Night actions aren't the by-all-end-all to this game, so slavishly listening to the feedback above all is going to cause problems, especially when you have two Witch-ability roles.

Just because people have multiple actions doesn't mean that they have to be used every night.

Those are my first impressions. I'll be back in a bit to either do more setup spec or jump straight into pedantic 'scum-hunting'. Enjoy!

I find setup speculation to be kind of useless since the setup is rather simple. I probably should be doing something myself since I probably got something wrong, should be cleared with a re-reading. I also think I've found Calix's role.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 01:58 PM

Welcome, do you think you can answer the question I said before, would be appreciated :).

It wasn't a question, but I'll go find it as promised.

I rather bring this up to mind because if we did continue with voting someone off, having a 4/6 chance of it being town and 1 or 2 chance of it being scum, continuing with the lynch would be more devastating in a 2v1v1 suituation.

If you're talking about the no lynch suggestion: no. We should lynch today, one simple glance at Jester Girl and Jester Girl's abilities makes me conclude that we should be lynching everyday.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:03 PM

Calix is Town Guy.

I also think I've found Calix's role.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/b70de5580fe31a5b435512a3b0d96a9b/tumblr_mm3y2dhAKB1r5xzspo1_500.gif

Okay, you know what? I am going to stop giving a shit. If other people have me as town, that's one town that isn't going to get mislynched.

secondpleb, your alignment reads on everyone who's posted, please.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 02:09 PM

If you're talking about the no lynch suggestion: no. We should lynch today, one simple glance at Jester Girl and Jester Girl's abilities makes me conclude that we should be lynching everyday.

And why do you think lynching every day would be beneficial to town?

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:09 PM

I'd agree if this was a game of chance. It is not; that's why we have a chat.

And the chances of lynching a Jester would be exactly 0% if we attempt to focus on nothing but mechanics; in the best possible scenarion, we'd bave a 33% chance of winning d1. In the worts, we'd simply go with a no-lynch and no biggie. Anyway, this is exactly what I don't want this game to turn into.

secondpassing

Because I'm that good and you know it. Don't make me explain things before they achieve their desired effect.

@Calix, yes I know I quoted Sen here though
I'd rather not talk about my initial reads anymore since they are bound to fluctuations. Instead, I will let them influence my mind, especially in the span of four posts it already did flip, but to give you an idea where I'm at, I think I narrowed down two and two. Why?

I have made two townreads already. They're very important this game with one scum each.

I said it was MYLO because if we don't lynch the Mafia today, we will have to rely on the Jester's vote to get the majority needed (unless they die) so that doesn't sit well with me.

Mafia's win condition requires the Jester to be night-killed, lol. That's no walk in the park either.

(I have read the rest of your post and I agree that the night actions taken will be important to log.)

I can't agree with MYLO since if we do mislynch, the game ends or we lose a town. I feel it isn't bad to push for lynches yet. Please note that I haven't considered the implications of redirects and undirects yet. Something in the back of my mind is telling me the game was won right when it started.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:13 PM

Okay, you know what? I am going to stop giving a shit. If other people have me as town, that's one town that isn't going to get mislynched.
That's the thing; townhunting in this setup is way better than scumhunting. You find 3 persons who are Town and that's GG after the night actions.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:14 PM

@Calix, yes I know I quoted Sen here though
I'd rather not talk about my initial reads anymore since they are bound to fluctuations.[QUOTE]

The whole point of reads is that they change over time. Is it because you got rekt last game because you admitted to making up ALL of your reads? :rolleyes:

[QUOTE]Instead, I will let them influence my mind, especially in the span of four posts it already did flip

wut

I have made two townreads already. They're very important this game with one scum each.

So tell us so we don't lynch your townreads? Duh.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:15 PM

And why do you think lynching every day would be beneficial to town?

This is my first game with a spawned jester. As TDL has touched on, there are only a couple of plays the jester can make during day chat but many more different types of plays during night time. Compounded with night chat, jester play has expanded.

I'm a proponent of day one reads because no one can fall back on "I healed this girl yesterday!" While I think we should lynch, I'm open to changes.
Your suggestion + your votes are contradictory right now.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:15 PM

When you fuck up quotes while putting down someone :fb:

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:15 PM

That's the thing; townhunting in this setup is way better than scumhunting. You find 3 persons who are Town and that's GG after the night actions.
As in 3 including you, so if you are Town, you townies only need to get two solid town reads among the remaining players, and the game's solved.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:16 PM

That's the thing; townhunting in this setup is way better than scumhunting. You find 3 persons who are Town and that's GG after the night actions.

And you have somewhat redeemed yourself from your MasterWIFOM9000 plan earlier.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:17 PM

And you have somewhat redeemed yourself from your MasterWIFOM9000 plan earlier.
I'm one of the few allowed to use WIFOMASTER PLAN 9000s in games. d:

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:17 PM

The whole point of reads is that they change over time. Is it because you got rekt last game because you admitted to making up ALL of your reads? :rolleyes:

So tell us so we don't lynch your townreads? Duh.

I'd rather not talk about the first part :'( you can leave it to my stupidity.

I've already townread Mikecall, and for the most part, Calix. If I can remember this, I'll try not to vote them.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:18 PM

Can the jester uninvest themselves?

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:19 PM

Can the jester uninvest themselves?
The setup says noone can self-target, unless redirected.

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:19 PM

Can the jester uninvest themselves?

Wait no, my bad no they can't. Okay town won gg.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:20 PM

I've already townread Mikecall, and for the most part, Calix. If I can remember this, I'll try not to vote them.

Ewwwww. What town talks about their town-reads like this?

The opportunism here is off the charts :sick:

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:23 PM

Ewwwww. What town talks about their town-reads like this?

The opportunism here is off the charts :sick:

We're four pages in. My opinion on Sen has already flopped. I haven't grouped Sen yet but my plan seems to be set already.
Have you made reads too Calix? I always find it odd you don't seem to add your information when asking for it.

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:26 PM

We're four pages in. My opinion on Sen has already flopped. I haven't grouped Sen yet but my plan seems to be set already.
Have you made reads too Calix? I always find it odd you don't seem to add your information when asking for it.

How is that a reason to not give reads? Of course they will flip-flop, that's something that can be read into to see if the change is natural or not. The way you worded that was revolting. We're in a six-player setup and you can't remember the town-read of two players? It's even better because you spend half your posts in other games tunneling the shit out of me.

I've given my opinion on Sen and revoked some of that in light of recent comments. You are being scummy for your weird reads. Trying to falsify them again? ;)

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 02:35 PM

How is that a reason to not give reads? Of course they will flip-flop, that's something that can be read into to see if the change is natural or not. The way you worded that was revolting. We're in a six-player setup and you can't remember the town-read of two players? It's even better because you spend half your posts in other games tunneling the shit out of me.

I've given my opinion on Sen and revoked some of that in light of recent comments. You are being scummy for your weird reads. Trying to falsify them again? ;)

I can't see how the way I tunnel you and remembering things is connected, and I also don't see how that past game has to do with this one.

If it means anything, I only falsified a couple of reads back in the other game (for anyone else, I was scum aligned neutral in Romeo and Juliet), and the ones I've made now are what they are.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:39 PM

She was townreading me and now thinks I'm scum because of my totally strictly random (lol) vote on her. Not voting me, tho, after saying that we should lynch today. Make of that what you will.

A) She's thinks I'm the Jester. NAI.
B) She's the Jester, and doesn't want to push a lynch on anybody else.
C) She's Mafia pushing for a no-lynch, even if she said otherwise.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 02:43 PM

Calix

March 18th, 2016, 02:46 PM

I wouldnt think C would be true, considering I am the only one who thinks having a no lynch would be the best course of action o.o.

No-Lynching isn't necessarily the Devil Incarnate, but operating on that assumption weakens the pressure of voting. We're in a majority lynch setup, it's not like a single vote can kill you, so stressing the importance of not lynching this early seems dumb to me.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 02:48 PM

Anyways, I best be off, will recheck in the morning.

Mikecall

March 18th, 2016, 02:49 PM

Anyways, I best be off, will recheck in the morning.

If there is any questions you would like to ask me to recheck, feel free to ask.

Sen

March 18th, 2016, 02:58 PM

I wouldnt think C would be true, considering I am the only one who thinks having a no lynch would be the best course of action o.o.
That would imply that things people say are to be taken at face value. This is Mafia. >_>

A no-lynch d1 benefits both the Mafia and the Jester, as counter-intuitive as that might be. You pointed out that the chances of mislynching are higher than those of lynching scum (like in every other setup), yet failed to mention that in the case of a mislynch, the Jester would effectively lose and become an idgaf anti-town, and since the Town wouldn't have majority anymore, it'd be a matter of waiting a couple of nights for the Mafia to get two extra kills and win, with nobody to prevent it.

And then of course, there's the fact that lynching is our only way to achieve our win condition other than sheer luck.
I voted you because I thought you were the Jester; suggesting scum 101 tactics, then you followed with an OMGUS (another scum 101) and failed to do anything resembling scumhunting. Now you came and tried to redirect attention from secondpassing towards you.

I still don't have enough to say something for certain, but you are not the Town I was looking for.

Funce

March 18th, 2016, 05:53 PM

secondpassing

March 18th, 2016, 10:37 PM

I've been destroyed.
Welcome to the game everyone. Where there is you lynch 1 person you win. Another you lose.

Town-searching yada yada yada.

Some other uselessness about Jester.

I don't give a shit, something here.

I townread the hell out of TDL

Thats nice to know you have a town read already. How do you feel about that one lynch to lose, one lynch to lose, and another lynch to start losing options?

I'm actually still considering no lynching, but leaning towards the "we gotta lynch" though. From numbers, if we mislynch a fellow town member, we still gain everything that a regular lynch would give us. After finding out that jester cannot uninvest themselves they are very limited to what they can say on the following day to get themselves lynched.

I totally disagree with TDL's statement on jesters though. Just going to say I disagree with it and try not to discuss it.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 03:02 AM

Can the jester uninvest themselves?

Wait no, my bad no they can't. Okay town won gg.

"Why did RLVG make it so hard for me to win this game? WHY?"

in the case of a mislynch, the Jester would effectively lose and become an idgaf anti-town, and since the Town wouldn't have majority anymore, it'd be a matter of waiting a couple of nights for the Mafia to get two extra kills and win, with nobody to prevent it.

What? If the Jester made themselves obvious, the Mafia would just night-kill them with the town's blessing. I don't see how the Jester not getting lynched today means that town would be disadvantaged.

And then of course, there's the fact that lynching is our only way to achieve our win condition other than sheer luck.
I voted you because I thought you were the Jester; suggesting scum 101 tactics, then you followed with an OMGUS (another scum 101) and failed to do anything resembling scumhunting.

"Hey guys, I voted for the player who can end the game with a solo win if he's lynched!"

Scrub is probably town.

I've been destroyed.
Welcome to the game everyone. Where there is you lynch 1 person you win. Another you lose.

Town-searching yada yada yada.

Some other uselessness about Jester.

I don't give a shit, something here.

I townread the hell out of TDL

If you are just going to lurk and make one flippant post, please replace out so that Toadette can play. kthxbai

Anyway, my current reads be like:
Sen
Mikecall
TLC
Funce
secondpleb

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 04:20 AM

That would imply that things people say are to be taken at face value. This is Mafia. >_>

A no-lynch d1 benefits both the Mafia and the Jester, as counter-intuitive as that might be. You pointed out that the chances of mislynching are higher than those of lynching scum (like in every other setup), yet failed to mention that in the case of a mislynch, the Jester would effectively lose and become an idgaf anti-town, and since the Town wouldn't have majority anymore, it'd be a matter of waiting a couple of nights for the Mafia to get two extra kills and win, with nobody to prevent it.

And then of course, there's the fact that lynching is our only way to achieve our win condition other than sheer luck.
I voted you because I thought you were the Jester; suggesting scum 101 tactics, then you followed with an OMGUS (another scum 101) and failed to do anything resembling scumhunting. Now you came and tried to redirect attention from secondpassing towards you.

I still don't have enough to say something for certain, but you are not the Town I was looking for.

So you think that not gathering evidence to support our claim would be invalid and stupid?

Obviously I know that lynching is our only way to win, but you dont see the point in having that 1 night to support the claims so that we can perform a proper lynch the next day.

So wait, if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.

And dude, for the point you stated, that was a reaction test on you, seeing how you would react, and it was interesting to follow.

funce

Now funce, a few questions for you to add to discussion

From now, who potentially do you think are potential scum candidates?
If so, why do you think they are?
What do you think of this current suituation we are in?

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:28 AM

So you think that not gathering evidence to support our claim would be invalid and stupid?

Obviously I know that lynching is our only way to win, but you dont see the point in having that 1 night to support the claims so that we can perform a proper lynch the next day.

So wait, if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.

And dude, for the point you stated, that was a reaction test on you, seeing how you would react, and it was interesting to follow.

funce

Now funce, a few questions for you to add to discussion

From now, who potentially do you think are potential scum candidates?
If so, why do you think they are?
What do you think of this current suituation we are in?

Mikecall is evolving. He is now at Stealthbomber level with those reaction tests! Kindly tell us your results from this supposed test, please.

If you had to pick the Mafia and the Jester, who would you pick and why?

If you had to pick two of the most obvious towns, who would you pick and why?

Snark aside, I like this Mikecall. Don't know if that makes him town, but that won't stop me patronizingly waving the pom-poms at him from the side-lines.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 04:43 AM

Mikecall is evolving. He is now at Stealthbomber level with those reaction tests! Kindly tell us your results from this supposed test, please.

If you had to pick the Mafia and the Jester, who would you pick and why?

If you had to pick two of the most obvious towns, who would you pick and why?

Snark aside, I like this Mikecall. Don't know if that makes him town, but that won't stop me patronizingly waving the pom-poms at him from the side-lines.

For Mafia and Jester, I am actually unsure, for the mafia, I would say funce would be a potential candidate since he has supplied anything that would be beneficial to the town. But since from meta he "says" he works under the pressure of some votes, I would say this could be a good lead to follow

For jester, I am completely unsure, Sen showed some qualities of being a jester from his previous posts, but nobody catches the "Hi I Am Jester" tactic.

Overall my complete views of everyone are as follows:

Funce
Calix
TheDarkestlight
Secondpassing
Sen

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:46 AM

For Mafia and Jester, I am actually unsure, for the mafia, I would say funce would be a potential candidate since he has supplied anything that would be beneficial to the town. But since from meta he "says" he works under the pressure of some votes, I would say this could be a good lead to follow

For jester, I am completely unsure, Sen showed some qualities of being a jester from his previous posts, but nobody catches the "Hi I Am Jester" tactic.

Overall my complete views of everyone are as follows:

Funce
Calix
TheDarkestlight
Secondpassing
Sen

What made you change your mind about Sen's alignment?

Are you using yellow to indicate Jester alignment?

Since you are talking, my vote would be better spent on Funce.

Funce

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 04:58 AM

What made you change your mind about Sen's alignment?

Are you using yellow to indicate Jester alignment?

Since you are talking, my vote would be better spent on Funce.

Funce

Yellow is to indicate unsure to null reads, anything I would indicate in red would be for either being potential mafia or jester, but for what I was saying about funce and sen, both can be categorised into different categories:

Funce being potential mafia candidate but claims from meta he works better under pressure, so we can see what his responses will be.

Sen, has showed signs of both town and mafia qualities, with some of his posts easing towards mafia / jester in the first part of his posts, but also from his latest posts, showed some town qualities.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:01 AM

Now calix a question for you, what do you think about the discussion of myself and sen?

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 05:02 AM

Yellow is to indicate unsure to null reads, anything I would indicate in red would be for either being potential mafia or jester, but for what I was saying about funce and sen, both can be categorised into different categories:

Funce being potential mafia candidate but claims from meta he works better under pressure, so we can see what his responses will be.

Can't everyone be a potential mafia candidate? What makes him more likely to be Mafia to you? Why exactly are you voting him above everyone else?

Sen, has showed signs of both town and mafia qualities, with some of his posts easing towards mafia / jester in the first part of his posts, but also from his latest posts, showed some town qualities.

"England can expect to see bursts of townie sunshine later this evening, especially among the South, while Scotland is plagued with bouts of scummy rain that will continue well into Sunday morning."

Please be more specific, sweetheart.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:24 AM

Can't everyone be a potential mafia candidate? What makes him more likely to be Mafia to you? Why exactly are you voting him above everyone else?

It depends on suspicion levels in my opinion, funce compared to other people shows the vibe for wanting to keep the suspicion away from himself, "Speculating from his 1 post". The reason for my vote is for pressure reasoning, even when meta can be biased majority of the time, he works better when under pressure from what I have seen.

And for him being mafia, relating back to first point, lurking + not bringing much into discussion potentially tries to keep his distance away from the town people, maybe this is jester / mafia play, but on a serious note, I would like to see his reaction from the votes being relayed onto him.

"England can expect to see bursts of townie sunshine later this evening, especially among the South, while Scotland is plagued with bouts of scummy rain that will continue well into Sunday morning."

Please be more specific, sweetheart.

The bring moonlight covering the cities and towns

On topic, sen's posts that he had made during the beginning of the day didnt bold well for him being town, such as post #22, #25 and #26 being the main thing that caught my attention towards him. Thats what brought me the attention of him being potential mafia for wanting to town hunt rather than scum hunt. Post #41 also caught my attention as well, like, he claims he isnt going to die, do I sense sen trying to be overconfident town or jester? but the last post but latest one showed town vibes towards him, so I have a mixed reaction at the moment towards sens playstyle, so hence why I backup my claim of him either being town / mafia.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:24 AM

The bring moonlight covering the cities and towns

On topic, sen's posts that he had made during the beginning of the day didnt bold well for him being town, such as post #22, #25 and #26 being the main thing that caught my attention towards him. Thats what brought me the attention of him being potential mafia for wanting to town hunt rather than scum hunt. Post #41 also caught my attention as well, like, he claims he isnt going to die, do I sense sen trying to be overconfident town or jester? but the last post but latest one showed town vibes towards him, so I have a mixed reaction at the moment towards sens playstyle, so hence why I backup my claim of him either being town / mafia.

Anyways, I'll have to go for a bit, will be back on later.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 07:58 AM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 08:02 AM

Oh yay, everyone is townreading me.

Sen is likely town due to the sheer dumbfuckery. "I voted you because I thought you were Jester". No Mafia or Jester would be that fucking stupid, and if they are I will be truly ashamed.

And I don't get why people are so terrified of saying potential jester strategies. The chance he/she would even use said strategy is low due to human stubbornness and the fact that if he/she did it would result in us easily picking it out.

Do you have anything else to add outside of the following:

A) Yay, town cred!

B) Calix has a good read on Sen and I agree with it.

C) We should focus on the Jester even though lynching the Mafia is an infinitely better move.

D) Also I won't actually give any strategies despite whining about their utility and just expect people to feed me ideas.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 08:13 AM

Do you have anything else to add outside of the following:

A) Yay, town cred!

B) Calix has a good read on Sen and I agree with it.

C) We should focus on the Jester even though lynching the Mafia is an infinitely better move.

D) Also I won't actually give any strategies despite whining about their utility and just expect people to feed me ideas.

Woo, keep discrediting. What I see here is a scum seeing someone being townread and wanting to tunnel them.

Calix

Your attempts to discredit are not pro-town.

And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...

A: If you insist.

B: I never mentioned your read, we simply came to the same conclusion.

C: Because we have 48 hour days and 48 hour nights, guess we shouldn't talk about the Jester at all huh? Talk about the Mafia 24/7 and nothing else because the Jester doesn't exist.

D: See my first post, I pretty much said how this game will go down. I would happily say it again if you so wished.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 08:19 AM

Woo, keep discrediting. What I see here is a scum seeing someone being townread and wanting to tunnel them.

Calix

Your attempts to discredit are not pro-town.

And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...

A: If you insist.

B: I never mentioned your read, we simply came to the same conclusion.

C: Because we have 48 hour days and 48 hour nights, guess we shouldn't talk about the Jester at all huh? Talk about the Mafia 24/7 and nothing else because the Jester doesn't exist.

D: See my first post, I pretty much said how this game will go down. I would happily say it again if you so wished.

I asked you to provide something more useful and your response is to emotionally OMGUS before getting defensive. Promising.

A) There is no insistence on my part. That is quite literally what you said in the first line of your opening post.

B) That's my point. You just regurgitated my read without acknowledging that I had said the same thing and the implications of that.

C) You still don't actually offer your thoughts on the Jester strategies, nor do you explain why we should care about the Jester strategies when lynching the Mafia ends the game. Just sounds like a player who wants to look as scummy as possible to evade being lynched because 'lol jester'

D) 'I won't explain my thoughts on strategy because the game is easy for town, now let me ask why nobody is talking about jester strategies.'

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 08:26 AM

I asked you to provide something more useful and your response is to emotionally OMGUS before getting defensive. Promising.

A) There is no insistence on my part. That is quite literally what you said in the first line of your opening post.

B) That's my point. You just regurgitated my read without acknowledging that I had said the same thing and the implications of that.

C) You still don't actually offer your thoughts on the Jester strategies, nor do you explain why we should care about the Jester strategies when lynching the Mafia ends the game. Just sounds like a player who wants to look as scummy as possible to evade being lynched because 'lol jester'

D) 'I won't explain my thoughts on strategy because the game is easy for town, now let me ask why nobody is talking about jester strategies.'

A: K

B: I don't need to mention your read as your read had no influence on mine.

C: See D.

D: Someone here isn't reading. I have already stated how everything will go down and you refuse you acknowledge that. That is just adding to your scum level.

Emotional OMGUS? Not really, that would imply you accused me of being scum or voted me. You did neither, you simply attempted to discredit me as useless since I was town read by a few people and you obviously felt threatened by that since you're Mafia and you wanted to make sure no one was strongly town read, especially going into tomorrow which is where, as I have stated, the game will be pretty much over as just a single night of night actions is enough to steal the deal on this game FMPoV.

Of course scum like you just want to make sure to mislynch today and ensure there are no strong town reads going into tomorrow, save yourself.

And if you're not Mafia, your play is just bad and you need to improve, unless you're jester, in which case... good job, you made yourself seem Mafia as fuck.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 08:33 AM

A: K

B: I don't need to mention your read as your read had no influence on mine.

C: See D.

D: Someone here isn't reading. I have already stated how everything will go down and you refuse you acknowledge that. That is just adding to your scum level.

Emotional OMGUS? Not really, that would imply you accused me of being scum or voted me. You did neither, you simply attempted to discredit me as useless since I was town read by a few people and you obviously felt threatened by that since you're Mafia and you wanted to make sure no one was strongly town read, especially going into tomorrow which is where, as I have stated, the game will be pretty much over as just a single night of night actions is enough to steal the deal on this game FMPoV.

Of course scum like you just want to make sure to mislynch today and ensure there are no strong town reads going into tomorrow, save yourself.

And if you're not Mafia, your play is just bad and you need to improve, unless you're jester, in which case... good job, you made yourself seem Mafia as fuck.

B) Sure thing, hun.

D) Perhaps you should read my posts. I had you as a slight town/ null until your opening post. I also fail to see where these litany of town-reads you like to refer to come from. Funce made one comment and nobody has openly criticised you. That's not 'threatening' in any sense.

You're as useless as you are every game. Perhaps stop getting annoyed because I am calling you out for it and try to fix it. As I said, you have only regurgitated a read that I made, deny that it had any influence on you, and then whine about the Jester before hardcore accusing the player who questions you as Mafia.

Even better, you are criticising me for my supposed discrediting of you, the 'obvtown', yet you go on to discredit me, a player who has been town-read by Sen, Mikecall and secondpleb.

Seems legit.

Perhaps you could give your reads on the rest of the class while you're here.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 08:38 AM

B) Sure thing, hun.

D) Perhaps you should read my posts. I had you as a slight town/ null until your opening post. I also fail to see where these litany of town-reads you like to refer to come from. Funce made one comment and nobody has openly criticised you. That's not 'threatening' in any sense.

You're as useless as you are every game. Perhaps stop getting annoyed because I am calling you out for it and try to fix it. As I said, you have only regurgitated a read that I made, deny that it had any influence on you, and then whine about the Jester before hardcore accusing the player who questions you as Mafia.

Even better, you are criticising me for my supposed discrediting of you, the 'obvtown', yet you go on to discredit me, a player who has been town-read by Sen, Mikecall and secondpleb.

Seems legit.

Perhaps you could give your reads on the rest of the class while you're here.

Reads, it's easy, The Jester is between Sen, Funce and SP while you are the Mafia.

Useless every game, I'm about as useful as you. You seem to hold yourself up as some super god-like important player when you aren't. All you can do is discredit but you can't make any valid reads yourself because quite frankly, you suck at making reads. All you can do is discredit, tunnel, discredit, tunnel. You can never accomplish anything on your own.

And quite frankly, the fact people aren't calling me out is all that needs to be said. Whereas I already explained it with you. You just want to discredit any potential town reads so you don't have any threats heading into the future and you can be everyone's "sole town read".

And yeah, now I'm discrediting you, but there is a big difference.

I actually scum read you. You're discrediting me just to discredit me, I'm discrediting you because you are scum.

This is why your play is bad, you can talk the talk easily, but you can't read for shit.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 08:43 AM

Reads, it's easy, The Jester is between Sen, Funce and SP while you are the Mafia.

Useless every game, I'm about as useful as you. You seem to hold yourself up as some super god-like important player when you aren't. All you can do is discredit but you can't make any valid reads yourself because quite frankly, you suck at making reads. All you can do is discredit, tunnel, discredit, tunnel. You can never accomplish anything on your own.

And quite frankly, the fact people aren't calling me out is all that needs to be said. Whereas I already explained it with you. You just want to discredit any potential town reads so you don't have any threats heading into the future and you can be everyone's "sole town read".

And yeah, now I'm discrediting you, but there is a big difference.

I actually scum read you. You're discrediting me just to discredit me, I'm discrediting you because you are scum.

This is why your play is bad, you can talk the talk easily, but you can't read for shit.

I've missed this side of TLC. I'm too lazy to keep prodding you, but you should keep venting about me, sweetie.

You claim discrediting is bad, then you spend half the post in a giant discredit on me because of that insta-scumread, of which you are incredibly confident about. Discrediting scum-reads is hardly a winning strategy when the only reason you scum-read me is because I called you out on a useless post.

Feel free to contribute something of value at any time.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 08:51 AM

I've missed this side of TLC. I'm too lazy to keep prodding you, but you should keep venting about me, sweetie.

You claim discrediting is bad, then you spend half the post in a giant discredit on me because of that insta-scumread, of which you are incredibly confident about. Discrediting scum-reads is hardly a winning strategy when the only reason you scum-read me is because I called you out on a useless post.

Feel free to contribute something of value at any time.

I've already stated why I scum read you, and it was because you discredit just for the purpose of discrediting, whether it's just bad playstyle or the fact you're Mafia, I'm not sure. But I'm going with the former. And you're too lazy to argue because you don't have any counter.

And I specifically said discrediting is bad when you discredit just to discredit. You stated you leaned town towards me but saw fit to discredit me, that's typical scum play and anyone with half a brain could see that.

And oh no, you think one post is useless, God forbid. I mean, that's nowhere near how many useless posts you have, but by God when I do it it's bad. I guess when you have as many useless posts as you it doesn't matter hmmmm?

And that's besides the fact I've already explained that singular post. So if you want some tutoring on how to read properly after the game I'll help you. But of course now little missy it isn't the time, especially since you're the Mafia.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 08:57 AM

I've already stated why I scum read you, and it was because you discredit just for the purpose of discrediting, whether it's just bad playstyle or the fact you're Mafia, I'm not sure. But I'm going with the former. And you're too lazy to argue because you don't have any counter.

And I specifically said discrediting is bad when you discredit just to discredit. You stated you leaned town towards me but saw fit to discredit me, that's typical scum play and anyone with half a brain could see that.

And oh no, you think one post is useless, God forbid. I mean, that's nowhere near how many useless posts you have, but by God when I do it it's bad. I guess when you have as many useless posts as you it doesn't matter hmmmm?

And that's besides the fact I've already explained that singular post. So if you want some tutoring on how to read properly after the game I'll help you. But of course now little missy it isn't the time, especially since you're the Mafia.

How does one counter the arguments of 'your reads are bad', 'your playstyle is terrible' and 'you think you're a mafia god'?

You say 'I am the mafia' and then say 'I'm not sure wherever your playstyle is bad or wherever you're Mafia' in the same post? Somehow I doubt you are that bad as to accidentally slip like that in the span of a few paragraphs, leading me to think you are :scum: hiding behind WIFOM, etc etc.

Making an entire attack on someone's playstyle falls under 'discrediting just to discredit'.

'nowhere near how many useless posts you have' - [citation needed]

I'm setting this out because this is clearly not your town-play and anyone who has played with you before will see that. Wherever you're Jester or Mafia WIFOM-ing Jester remains to be determined.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 09:05 AM

How does one counter the arguments of 'your reads are bad', 'your playstyle is terrible' and 'you think you're a mafia god'?

You say 'I am the mafia' and then say 'I'm not sure wherever your playstyle is bad or wherever you're Mafia' in the same post? Somehow I doubt you are that bad as to accidentally slip like that in the span of a few paragraphs, leading me to think you are :scum: hiding behind WIFOM, etc etc.

Making an entire attack on someone's playstyle falls under 'discrediting just to discredit'.

'nowhere near how many useless posts you have' - [citation needed]

I'm setting this out because this is clearly not your town-play and anyone who has played with you before will see that. Wherever you're Jester or Mafia WIFOM-ing Jester remains to be determined.

By going out to prove your not scum, which you haven't done a single time except now with this super big "OMGUS".

"Oh, hey's accusing me of scum and I found a super weak opening, I'll exploit it and call him out as scum despite what I said previously."
And "former", was a typo, meant to be "latter". You are scum reading off a typing mistake, strong reads you got there.

And citation needed? Guess you aren't reading a less than 100 post game.

And I attack your play style because despite the fact I believe you to be the Mafia, there is always the slight chance it's just Failix being Failix. (See? I can do shotty nicknames too!)

Yes, they will see that... coming from the person with the same play every game. So why should anyone ever town read you if this is your typical play style?

But oh gosh, the OMGUS on me, I guess you got me, I'm obviously the Mafia because I made a typo and said former rather than latter, holy shit the world is going to end because I made a typo.

Now that you seem to think I'm scum out of fucking nowhere, come up with a better reason as to why, because even your fake reads are bad.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:09 AM

By going out to prove your not scum, which you haven't done a single time except now with this super big "OMGUS".

"Oh, hey's accusing me of scum and I found a super weak opening, I'll exploit it and call him out as scum despite what I said previously."
And "former", was a typo, meant to be "latter". You are scum reading off a typing mistake, strong reads you got there.

And citation needed? Guess you aren't reading a less than 100 post game.

And I attack your play style because despite the fact I believe you to be the Mafia, there is always the slight chance it's just Failix being Failix. (See? I can do shotty nicknames too!)

Yes, they will see that... coming from the person with the same play every game. So why should anyone ever town read you if this is your typical play style?

But oh gosh, the OMGUS on me, I guess you got me, I'm obviously the Mafia because I made a typo and said former rather than latter, holy shit the world is going to end because I made a typo.

Now that you seem to think I'm scum out of fucking nowhere, come up with a better reason as to why, because even your fake reads are bad.

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Joseline-Rolls-Eyes.gif

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 09:12 AM

http://persephonemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Joseline-Rolls-Eyes.gif

And you needed a citation for useless posts?

Yes, you go about useless posts because you've run out of arguments as you're the Mafia.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:12 AM

Your attempts at winding me up without resorting to serious shit are amusing, I'll give you that.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 09:20 AM

Your attempts at winding me up without resorting to serious shit are amusing, I'll give you that.

If you think that's what I'm doing, go ahead. You're scum nonetheless and you've done nothing but make yourself out to be a bigger one with your OMGUS. You even accuse me without voting me, that's what a Mafia would do my dear, and in a game like this, since there is only one Mafia, the person you accuse should be the person you're voting. But yet you aren't, so once again you prove that you don't actually think I'm scum and you're just discrediting me because you see me as a town read and don't want anyone to be town reads in the future save yourself.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:30 AM

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 09:38 AM

I'm not voting you because your play can easily be coming from a Jester or Mafia pretending to be one, complete with begging for votes and more discredits. I like to see how everyone else responds to get the bigger picture.

I haven't once begged for votes, thank you very much. :)

And ohhh, does the Queen of discrediting not like being discredited? Well, at least I gave a valid reason for why I am discrediting you. Oh, and best of all, I gave it before actually starting, you have to come up with some fake one in the middle of your attempts because I called you out on it.

Please, show me examples of how you you are town if you really are.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:40 AM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:41 AM

I haven't once begged for votes, thank you very much. :)

And ohhh, does the Queen of discrediting not like being discredited? Well, at least I gave a valid reason for why I am discrediting you. Oh, and best of all, I gave it before actually starting, you have to come up with some fake one in the middle of your attempts because I called you out on it.

Please, show me examples of how you you are town if you really are.

You are adorable when pretending to be defensive. Please continue to discredit me further, darling.

Maybe if you stopped hedging, I might have something quotable enough to add to my signature :)

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 09:47 AM

It's really simple, you're right in that respect. Just get the Investigative roles to check TDL and secondpleb.

Jester cannot Uninvest themselves so anyone whose investigations fail knows that their target is not the Jester.

If TDL/ secondpleb show up as a Girl, they will never have to fear a lynch.

Yes, direct the night actions away from yourself.

Look even scummier than you already do.

I'll happily be investigated, but you're even scummier for directing night actions. I sincerely hope that when people actually show up they see how scummy you are.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 09:51 AM

Yes, direct the night actions away from yourself.

Look even scummier than you already do.

I'll happily be investigated, but you're even scummier for directing night actions. I sincerely hope that when people actually show up they see how scummy you are.

I'm not the one who needs the night actions in the first place.

With that, it is sorted. You two can be investigated and we can deal with the results of that in the morning.

Simple.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 10:04 AM

I'm not the one who needs the night actions in the first place.

With that, it is sorted. You two can be investigated and we can deal with the results of that in the morning.

Simple.

Says the scummiest person around.

You DO need investigation, and I highly suggest you are one of the ones investigated.

You are scummy as hell for trying to push investigations away from yourself. Got something to hide? If you didn't you wouldn't be trying to direct them away.

Not only are you making sure you aren't investigated, you're giving them fucking ORDERS on who to target. You are in no position to be giving orders to anyone, because you are the scummiest person around.

I'm only -suggesting- one on you, but it isn't needed FMPoV that much. It just puts icing on the cake.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 10:14 AM

Says the scummiest person around.

You DO need investigation, and I highly suggest you are one of the ones investigated.

You are scummy as hell for trying to push investigations away from yourself. Got something to hide? If you didn't you wouldn't be trying to direct them away.

Not only are you making sure you aren't investigated, you're giving them fucking ORDERS on who to target. You are in no position to be giving orders to anyone, because you are the scummiest person around.

I'm only -suggesting- one on you, but it isn't needed FMPoV that much. It just puts icing on the cake.

It's totally okay for you to direct TPRs because it's 'just a suggestion' but 'ordering' them to not target someone who I know is town (me) is scummy.

It's 'not needed' to investigate me in a game that is decided largely by night actions, which something you said yourself, because you have magically divined that I am Mafia with 'a slight chance it is Failix being Failix' (no fear of Jester)

lol

Much as this is enjoyable, I have to disappear for 1~ hour. See ya scrub.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 10:29 AM

It's totally okay for you to direct TPRs because it's 'just a suggestion' but 'ordering' them to not target someone who I know is town (me) is scummy.

It's 'not needed' to investigate me in a game that is decided largely by night actions, which something you said yourself, because you have magically divined that I am Mafia with 'a slight chance it is Failix being Failix' (no fear of Jester)

lol

Much as this is enjoyable, I have to disappear for 1~ hour. See ya scrub.

You're ordering both, I'm suggesting to one. I am perfectly fine if they look at me, but you clearly aren't otherwise you wouldn't be controlling them. Why so nervous of being looked at, got something to hide?

And like I said, it's FMPoV. I'm not the only person in this game. It's mostly just to help convince everyone else that you are in fact scum.

And leaving now, well, I like how you said earlier that you were going to stop talking because you were lazy, but I guess you were just to intent on defending yourself from one person.

"Oh no! One person is accusing me, I might get revealed! I gotta find out how to stop them! Oh I know, I'll just OMGUS and call him scum for a shit reason!"

Typical scum attitude.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 11:03 AM

"Hey guys, I voted for the player who can end the game with a solo win if he's lynched!"

So wait, if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.?

"I voted you because I thought you were Jester".
Because nobody was going to hammer, and because the Jester's behaviour will shine when the votes start piling up; Mikecall had 2 votes and replied to that with an OMGUS followed by a groundless argument, which is a good way to look scummy as fuck. He says it's reaction testing, yet keeps pushing for a d1 no lynch, which would increase the chances of a Jester lynch on d2 if the Jester survives the night.

Go back and read his posts, and you'll see he hasn't pushed anyone in any way.

I'll go back now and read Calix and TDL's discussion again.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 11:21 AM

Because nobody was going to hammer, and because the Jester's behaviour will shine when the votes start piling up; Mikecall had 2 votes and replied to that with an OMGUS followed by a groundless argument, which is a good way to look scummy as fuck. He says it's reaction testing, yet keeps pushing for a d1 no lynch, which would increase the chances of a Jester lynch on d2 if the Jester survives the night.

Go back and read his posts, and you'll see he hasn't pushed anyone in any way.

I'll go back now and read Calix and TDL's discussion again.

You have been saying OMGUS posts a lot lately in my posts, is it because you dont like the scenario of a no lynch? seems I got your attention havent I.

And how havent I pushed anyone in any way? I think you dont even see the posts lately about trying to push for funce to contribute more to the chat base, or havent you read my posts so far from that?

But back on topic, please say why my tactic is scummy as fuck, you claim it will affect the chances of jester winning more on d2, then why do you think not pushing for a lynch is going to help town in any way, you do know the suituation, 1 misslynch = incredible chance of being in a 2v1v1 suituation where jester or mafia have the choice on who wins.

So lets say we follow your plan, we lynch a scum or we lynch a town, how would that help us in any way?

But I'll graph it out so you know:

The suituation we are in is a 4v1v1 (Town vs Jester vs Mafia)

The scenarios we are put into:

Lynch town (3v1v1) + with Night Kill (2v1v1) = Lylo to Win which would be hard to accomplish for town
Lynch Jester (4v0v1) But Jester Wins = Ending Game
Lynch Mafia (4v1v0) Town Wins = Ending Game

We are put in more of a position of misslynching town over scum since lynching mafia would be a 5/6 chance of failing and
1/6 chance of Town Win = 16.7% chance
1/6 chance of Jester Win = 16.7% chance
4/6 chance of misslynching Town = 66.7%

Now sen, what are your thoughts on this?

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 11:22 AM

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 11:26 AM

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?

:facepalm:

I like walking back into the game to this stellar question.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 11:41 AM

Calix is indeed misreping a lot this game, and while that's a scumtell for her in some cases (that's how I pegged her as scum in Flashpoint after seeing her misrep me in SFM Arsonist), she does surgical misreps when she's scum; focusing on a single player, while trying to befriend others. She's being too aggressive this time, and against many players. If she isn't Town, then she's the Jester, which would explain the lack of a vote which isn't really explained by the chance of TDL being a Jester, since if that was the case, we might as well never vote.
So yeah, whatever the case, I'm not voting her today.

TDL's reads are swinging a lot; he calls someone Town, then possible Jester, then accuses someone of being scum, and then of being a possible Jester (although Calix did the latter as well). I've said before that I have trouble reading TDL because he has a lot of NAI things that I'd normally consider scummy.

Both are being retarded right now. I don't like the whole "I'm in everyone's townlist" from any of you. Why do you need to display yourself like that? If someone has you on their townreads, it serves no purpose, so that sort of comments are addressed at those who doesn't.
The same applies with the "you are scum and everybody notices it". Leave those shit arguments for the politicians and start making some actual points.

Both of you are using weak as fuck arguments just for the sake of winning a discussion. "You are scum". "No, you are". You won't convince a townie to say they are scum, and scum will never concede that they are, so stop wasting time with that.

You have been saying OMGUS posts a lot lately in my posts, is it because you dont like the scenario of a no lynch? seems I got your attention havent I.
I've been saying OMGUS because that's what you did; I voted you, and you voted me without having any sort of valid argument for said vote, then when called out you used the old excuse of "lol, 'cuz reactions".

And how havent I pushed anyone in any way? I think you dont even see the posts lately about trying to push for funce to contribute more to the chat base, or havent you read my posts so far from that?
Oh, so you think poking a lurker is the same as scumhunting? lol, ok.

But back on topic, please say why my tactic is scummy as fuck, you claim it will affect the chances of jester winning more on d2, then why do you think not pushing for a lynch is going to help town in any way, you do know the suituation, 1 misslynch = incredible chance of being in a 2v1v1 suituation where jester or mafia have the choice on who wins.
Pushing for a no-lynch is saying that votes of today are worthless. "Hey, I'll vote you, but don't worry, I won't lynch you". You are asking for Town to lose our main weapon. A lynch today either wins us the game, or gives us a victory after tonight.

So lets say we follow your plan, we lynch a scum or we lynch a town, how would that help us in any way?
Are you stupid? Lynching the Mafia wins us the game. lmao How would that help us in any way?

But I'll graph it out so you know:

The suituation we are in is a 4v1v1 (Town vs Jester vs Mafia)

The scenarios we are put into:

Lynch town (3v1v1) + with Night Kill (2v1v1) = Lylo to Win which would be hard to accomplish for town
Lynch Jester (4v0v1) But Jester Wins = Ending Game
Lynch Mafia (4v1v0) Town Wins = Ending Game

We are put in more of a position of misslynching town over scum since lynching mafia would be a 5/6 chance of failing and
1/6 chance of Town Win = 16.7% chance
1/6 chance of Jester Win = 16.7% chance
4/6 chance of misslynching Town = 66.7%

Now sen, what are your thoughts on this?
Cute how you think that Mafia is a game of chance.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 11:44 AM

I'd like other people's input on Mikecall. He isn't Town, and I still think he's likely the Jester, which is why I am not voting him anymore, but I might be biased because of my early read on him.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 11:47 AM

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?
"Hey, look! I don't understand the Jester's wincon. I cannot be the Jester!"

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 11:49 AM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 11:50 AM

"Hey, look! I don't understand the Jester's wincon. I cannot be the Jester!"

I remember him saying something stupid like 'if the jester is voted, it could POTENTIALLY end the game for mafia and town'. Let me dig.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 11:50 AM

"Hey, look! I don't understand the Jester's wincon. I cannot be the Jester!"

Loving the assumption of me being jester, oh what will I ever do, how will I ever win, I will be victorious -_-, gosh if you dont even get my sarcasm, sometimes I just wonder

Also, I am only asking, gosh, criticising my points just makes you awfully more suspicious than what would of been needed, please go on.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 11:58 AM

So far what I've seen from this game is non-stop

"Oh, but his play suggests Jester, so we shouldn't vote him."

So is half the fucking game a jester? At this point we're never going to lynch because all anyone will do is go "Oh, he's probably a Jester" "Oh, his play shows he's a Jester" "Not sure if he's Mafia or Jester. Won't vote to be safe."

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:01 PM

Is your conclusion that we are both tunneling or what? Because that is what I am getting from this post.
Pretty much. Whether you are unto something or not, that discussion was mostly a pissing contest between the two of you.

Can you expand more about where I have misrepped and why you don't find my 'misreps' scummy in this game? I will freely admit this is out of curiosity more than anything else.
Your early arguments against me: You accussed me of feigned anger, then focused on the style I was using at that point (laconic replies), said I wasn't scumhunting, and were somehow suprised by my WIFOMASTER PLAN 9000, knowing that I am one with the WIFON and that I'm never to be taken at face value, not in every reply, at the very least.

Then calling seconpassing seconpleb, immediatly presenting her as someone whose arguments aren't to be taken seriously, then called her opportunist.

And now the TDL thing.

You have focused a lot in attacks to things that are irrelevant when considered on their own, and a lot of your pushes have been based on interpretations of a single word or line (he's feigning this, she's being opportunistic, he's trying to make you think that), without really backing them up with some solid evidence.

I don't think you are scum, because scum rarely tries to get into fights with this many players, especially in such a small setup, so you are either being your aggressive town self, or the Jester.

I find TLC to be overtly scummy and think he might be doing it to bait me into voting him. Since there is a good chance that he is Jester FMPOV and given that he was responding to me (thus meaning he didn't have to be pressured to do so), I don't see a reason to vote.

What is your conclusion on TLC? You just said that he's hard to read, but I don't see the harm in trying to figure out his motivations.
He isn't the Jester. I'd say slightly Town. It's not that I've seen many particularly townie things from him, but rather than there's a single Mafia in this game and I have others higher on my list of suspects.

I will reread Mikecall's posts, but I personally find TLC/ secondpleb to be scummier.
I also think secondpassing is a good candidate for scum.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:01 PM

Some notable Mikecall posts up to #87. I'm reading them as if he is the Jester.

But on the other hand, its rather 4v1v1 with the potential of jester have the capability of preventing the town and the mafia from winning, I would say we would have to narrow down potentially who could be the jester girl and see for ourselves what the invests might supply with at night.

Acknowledgement that Jester being lynched ends the game. Also knows the name of the Jester, so has some basic knowledge of the setup.

And you would blatantly reveal this early, -_- you do forget I am still sticking with my no lynch moto. Just wanted to see how you would react.

'It's a reaction test guise'

Probably knowing him, either a person who would want to divert attention away from himself, giving a hunch, hes probably either the mafia member or potentially one of the town.

Wouldnt class him as the jester unless hes trying some WIFOM to get himself lynched, and I aint buying it.

Extremely sceptical of the possibility of Sen being Jester.

if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.

And dude, for the point you stated, that was a reaction test on you, seeing how you would react, and it was interesting to follow.

Another admission that lynching the Jester loses the game for town.

For Mafia and Jester, I am actually unsure, for the mafia, I would say funce would be a potential candidate since he has supplied anything that would be beneficial to the town. But since from meta he "says" he works under the pressure of some votes, I would say this could be a good lead to follow

For jester, I am completely unsure, Sen showed some qualities of being a jester from his previous posts, but nobody catches the "Hi I Am Jester" tactic.

Switches to assume that Sen can now be the Jester, for no apparent reason.

Sen, has showed signs of both town and mafia qualities, with some of his posts easing towards mafia / jester in the first part of his posts, but also from his latest posts, showed some town qualities.

These posts do not make sense when you consider that he asked wherever lynching the Jester ends the game for town.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:03 PM

Loving the assumption of me being jester, oh what will I ever do, how will I ever win, I will be victorious -_-, gosh if you dont even get my sarcasm, sometimes I just wonder

Also, I am only asking, gosh, criticising my points just makes you awfully more suspicious than what would of been needed, please go on.
Scumhunting makes me suspicious? Ok.

So far what I've seen from this game is non-stop

"Oh, but his play suggests Jester, so we shouldn't vote him."

So is half the fucking game a jester? At this point we're never going to lynch because all anyone will do is go "Oh, he's probably a Jester" "Oh, his play shows he's a Jester" "Not sure if he's Mafia or Jester. Won't vote to be safe."
Not wanting to lose is a fair concern. But yeah, that's not an excuse to not vote; we'll peg the Jester and then lynch among the remaining players.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:03 PM

Also I have read the rest of your post, but before I respond, I just want to lol at 'you called secondpassing secondpleb, you must be putting down his arguments'

You saw me using insulting names for him in the game that you hosted, where I was Town-Neutral.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:07 PM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:11 PM

Pretty much. Whether you are unto something or not, that discussion was mostly a pissing contest between the two of you.

I can admit that we were mostly just throwing insults and witty remarks at each other. To get some perspective, I'll reread in a few hours to see if I still think I have a valid case since I could just be tunneling/ wanting to prove that I'm right.

Your early arguments against me: You accussed me of feigned anger, then focused on the style I was using at that point (laconic replies), said I wasn't scumhunting, and were somehow suprised by my WIFOMASTER PLAN 9000, knowing that I am one with the WIFON and that I'm never to be taken at face value, not in every reply, at the very least.

Then calling seconpassing seconpleb, immediatly presenting her as someone whose arguments aren't to be taken seriously, then called her opportunist.

I think commenting on the way you changed your posting style is valid, especially as it was quite suspicious at the time and it created discussion. As I said earlier, I couldn't really find a scum-motivated reason for you to behave the way you did, which is why I have now concluded you are town.

And now the TDL thing.

You have focused a lot in attacks to things that are irrelevant when considered on their own, and a lot of your pushes have been based on interpretations of a single word or line (he's feigning this, she's being opportunistic, he's trying to make you think that), without really backing them up with some solid evidence.

I don't think you are scum, because scum rarely tries to get into fights with this many players, especially in such a small setup, so you are either being your aggressive town self, or the Jester.

I have no intentions of getting myself lynched. Don't underestimate me, scrub ;) There is a point to saying this.

I might just be determined to be right so I will have to look back over the argument after I've slept on it a bit.

He isn't the Jester. I'd say slightly Town. It's not that I've seen many particularly townie things from him, but rather than there's a single Mafia in this game and I have others higher on my list of suspects.

I also think secondpassing is a good candidate for scum.

If you think Mikecall is Jester and you don't think I am Mafia, and you don't think TDL is your top suspect, and you claim that secondpassing is 'also' a good candidate for scum, then who do you think the Mafia is? Funce? They haven't posted enough to make a conclusive judgment, surely.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:17 PM

I think commenting on the way you changed your posting style is valid, especially as it was quite suspicious at the time and it created discussion.
Sure, it's valid, but you didn't only point it out, but immediatly jumped to conclusions.
The thing that made me frown the most is that you know I'm always one to pull wifomic shenanigans, and you are often the one to point out that X player is just being X player, yet in my case you immediatly decided to call me scummy instead of saying "Sen is being Sen".

If you think Mikecall is Jester and you don't think I am Mafia, and you don't think TDL is your top suspect, and you claim that secondpassing is 'also' a good candidate for scum, then who do you think the Mafia is? Funce? They haven't posted enough to make a conclusive judgment, surely.
Mikecall and Secondpassing. I have Mikecall as the Jester, but like I said, there's always the chance that I'm having confirmation bias, so he might very well be the Mafia.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:24 PM

Sure, it's valid, but you didn't only point it out, but immediatly jumped to conclusions.
The thing that made me frown the most is that you know I'm always one to pull wifomic shenanigans, and you are often the one to point out that X player is just being X player, yet in my case you immediatly decided to call me scummy instead of saying "Sen is being Sen".

Mikecall and Secondpassing. I have Mikecall as the Jester, but like I said, there's always the chance that I'm having confirmation bias, so he might very well be the Mafia.

Er, do I know this? O.o You love to tell us about how meta is for plebs.

I don't have a baseline for 'Sen being Sen' save for snarky comments, complaints about the shit-tier play of other players and :muk:

Well you can read over the compilation of Mikecall's posts. I think it's clear that he DID know that the Jester's lynch would end the game, so him asking that question = inconsistent as fuck.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:27 PM

Funce, if you come rolling into this thread with a 'I have nothing to contribute' post, I swear to fucking God.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:35 PM

Er, do I know this? O.o You love to tell us about how meta is for plebs.
Yet you plebs keep using it, so it's fair to frown when mine is ignored and followed by an accusation. >_>

Well you can read over the compilation of Mikecall's posts. I think it's clear that he DID know that the Jester's lynch would end the game, so him asking that question = inconsistent as fuck.
Yep. That was a good find. I'm more confident with my read on him now.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:41 PM

Allow me to provide a tl;dr version.

its rather 4v1v1 with the potential of jester have the capability of preventing the town and the mafia from winning

if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?

Explain this discrepancy, Mikecall.

RLVG

March 19th, 2016, 12:51 PM

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?

Jester Girl wins by getting herself lynched, ruining the game and prevent anyone else to win.

http://new4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Oh+thanks+for+the+advert+btw+fire+burns+_5f9e1c863 5920bccd8c65dcac41264f6.png

RLVG

March 19th, 2016, 12:53 PM

The questions in this game is so obvious lol.

Is there any non-obvious questions that the host can answer?

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:54 PM

The questions in this game is so obvious lol.

Is there any non-obvious questions that the host can answer?

What is love?

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 12:55 PM

Thats nice to know you have a town read already. How do you feel about that one lynch to lose, one lynch to lose, and another lynch to start losing options?

Its an interesting situation. Its kind of like a board game I know. One card wins, one card loses, the rest is wrong and allow the other team to move.

So you think that not gathering evidence to support our claim would be invalid and stupid?

Obviously I know that lynching is our only way to win, but you dont see the point in having that 1 night to support the claims so that we can perform a proper lynch the next day.

So wait, if you thought I was jester, then why vote me in the first place? when lynching jester potentially ends the game for both mafia and town to lose.

And dude, for the point you stated, that was a reaction test on you, seeing how you would react, and it was interesting to follow.

funce

Now funce, a few questions for you to add to discussion

From now, who potentially do you think are potential scum candidates?
If so, why do you think they are?
What do you think of this current suituation we are in?

I've managed to narrow down the scum to either you, secondpassing, or Sen.
I have no intention of being deceived by another Firebringer(Sen), I think that based off current posts and this one. You are incredibly scummy.
And I believe that Secondpassing's posts lack depth.
Current situation now, is looking quite good! I think your the mafia and secondpassing is the jester.

I have no intentions of lurking, Calix.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:55 PM

What is 2 + 2?

RLVG

March 19th, 2016, 12:56 PM

What is love?

Zombo. (http://zombo.com/)

What is 2 + 2?

A lucky clover.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 12:57 PM

Current situation now, is looking quite good! I think your the mafia and secondpassing is the jester.
Could you elaborate on this? I've got the exact opposite reads there, and would like to see where you're coming from.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 12:58 PM

Yeah, your thoughts on Mikecall/ Sen and TDL/ Calix would be good.

secondscrub needs to get online so we have the bigger picture. I hate being left in the lurch.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:01 PM

Could you elaborate on this? I've got the exact opposite reads there, and would like to see where you're coming from.

Okay. I don't know whether its normal for one to scumread mikecall.
I have him pegged as the Mafia, mainly because of several of his posts.
He is seeming like he is trying to 'try' to be towny, and then failing at it.
One of the posts that made me think this was his "Chance" Post, and the post where he asked me the questions. I can find them if it is required.
...

Actually. Now that I think about it...
Secondpassing, lacking depth in posts... Thats almost hiding, isn't it?
That means that it IS the other way around.
Secondpassing is the Maifa, Mikecall must be the jester.

Unless WIFOMERINO9000 plan is working perfectly.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:05 PM

Yeah, your thoughts on Mikecall/ Sen and TDL/ Calix would be good.

secondscrub needs to get online so we have the bigger picture. I hate being left in the lurch.

Mikecall/Sen
Definitely possible. I would consider myself easily deceived. And Sen has it all going for him.
I don't believe I need to further elaborate on Mikecall.

TDL/Calix
This would work. If I had to peg some roles down, I'd say the Calix would be the jester here. I noticed she shot herself in the foot more than she shot TDL.
TDL's master logic, and expert execution and discrediting argument indicates a distinct not wish to be lynched.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 01:08 PM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:10 PM

Mikecall/Sen
Definitely possible. I would consider myself easily deceived. And Sen has it all going for him.
I don't believe I need to further elaborate on Mikecall.

TDL/Calix
This would work. If I had to peg some roles down, I'd say the Calix would be the jester here. I noticed she shot herself in the foot more than she shot TDL.
TDL's master logic, and expert execution and discrediting argument indicates a distinct not wish to be lynched.

Well I meant 'what did you make of the discussions between the two players' not 'do you think they are the two scum' but this works as well, lol

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:11 PM

Well I meant 'what did you make of the discussions between the two players' not 'do you think they are the two scum' but this works as well, lol

Oh right.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:12 PM

I need an expert opinion. Is Sen the Mafia?
Sen?

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:13 PM

Yeah, that's what I think; Mikecall is being too noisy while being subtly scummy in every reply, like trying to avoid being an obvious Jester, while making sure to leave scum trails that are obvious enough for people to catch on.

Secondpassing posted a lot of fluffs and "it could be this or that!" replies which show either indecisiveness or trying to be agreeable and flying low by not taking any strong stances on any subject or player. I also noticed that she mentioned how easy this game is for the Town is at least a couple of times, which could be a covert "bah!" post depicting her low chance of winning as Mafia.

I've just noticed that you keep calling secondpleb a she.

Anyway, that's why I had him as a Jester. He asked wherever Jester could self-uninvest and then said 'gg' when he found out they couldn't. Seemed like a 'why is this game so hard for me?' sequence.

But now you have Mikecall's obvious contradiction. Feels like a toss-up between those two.

I feel more confident in leaving my vote on TDL for now, although I will revisit that later.

TheDarkestLight

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 01:14 PM

I need an expert opinion. Is Sen the Mafia?
Sen?
What do you think?
http://i.imgur.com/N9ytl0h.png

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:15 PM

I need an expert opinion. Is Sen the Mafia?
Sen?

Honestly, I cannot see why he would act the way he did in the first few hours as Mafia. It doesn't make a lot of sense from that perspective to me.

Imagine he's Mafia. Now read his first posts and tell us how plausible you think that is.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 01:17 PM

I've just noticed that you keep calling secondpleb a she.
I'm pretty sure someone called her him a she the first time we played to gether, and I just assumed that was the case, since he never corrected me.

Sometimes it's hard to know in a site where Titus is a girl, and Carolina is a guy. d:[/QUOTE]

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:21 PM

Honestly, I cannot see why he would act the way he did in the first few hours as Mafia. It doesn't make a lot of sense from that perspective to me.

Imagine he's Mafia. Now read his first posts and tell us how plausible you think that is.

Mm, I see.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 01:24 PM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:27 PM

I'm pretty sure someone called her him a she the first time we played to gether, and I just assumed that was the case, since he never corrected me.

Sometimes it's hard to know in a site where Titus is a girl, and Carolina is a guy. d:[/QUOTE]

I don't know shit about him either. From his posts, I just have the impression that he's a weedy 15-year-old nerdy guy who trembles behind his computer screen while he adjusts his glasses.

Mm, I see.

So, your conclusions are? Do you agree with my assessment? If not, why? If so, why?

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:28 PM

I like how Calix finally did what I said after I suggested it, she just left it casually and a bit afterwards in hopes we forgot.

Please Calix, OMGUS harder and make yourself scummier than you already are.

I'm not getting into an argument with you now. You can wait.

I voted you after Mikecall's potential slip, thus making it very likely that he is the Jester. My vote is consistent.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 01:32 PM

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 01:33 PM

him* he*

lol, hard to get rid of habits.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:34 PM

So, your conclusions are? Do you agree with my assessment? If not, why? If so, why?[/QUOTE]

Oh yes.
That sort of attention garnering would be hella difficult to pull off and totally unnecessary as Mafia.

--
*Had rest of post but got to "." and completely forgot*

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:35 PM

So, your conclusions are? Do you agree with my assessment? If not, why? If so, why?

Oh yes.
That sort of attention garnering would be hella difficult to pull off and totally unnecessary as Mafia.

--
*Had rest of post but got to "." and completely forgot*

fixed.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 01:37 PM

If nothing else is going to be said. I'm going to go eat something.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:41 PM

@Calix: My qualm with Secondpassing as Jester is that he seems to be trying to fly low. I've had my vote on her since the early game, while nobody else seems to be giving her much thought other than a "meh, could be scum", and she isn't reacting to that in a way a Jester would -ie; reassuring people that she's scum and consolidating those reads into votes-.

Mikecall, on the other hand, started focusing on me as soon as I removed that vote, while ignoring questions addressed to him, which everybody understands as the easiest way to both look scummy and piss people off. In short, I think he's begging for votes and he would be getting them in any other game without a Jester in play.

I don't actually know his gender, so keep calling him a her if you want. I just pointed it out randomly.

But moving back on track, I haven't seen secondpassing online much, so I don't know if that's a valid defense. That is why I am waiting for them to arrive before we can jump to conclusions. secondpassing is not a very aggressive person so I don't think they would be as capable of drawing attention to them when you have stronger personalities like Sen, Calix, TDL on the block.

Your point about Mikecall is valid. It is possible that with the slip we found that he was aiming for a deliberate 'scum slip' that would incriminate him.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 01:42 PM

I'm not getting into an argument with you now. You can wait.

I voted you after Mikecall's potential slip, thus making it very likely that he is the Jester. My vote is consistent.

Not really. You just needed a convenient excuse.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 01:45 PM

Not really. You just needed a convenient excuse.

Fancy commenting on anything else or are you just going to keep tunneling on one person? I'm the only thing you have given more than a passing glance at today, and that was only after I dared suggest that your posts were lacking.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 03:26 PM

Ugh, these posts are out of order.

"Hey, look! I don't understand the Jester's wincon. I cannot be the Jester!"

That sounds so darn feigned, you(Sen), not Mikecall. Mikecall does these things, and its exactly what I do. He simply had an honest overlooking of crucial information.

I'd like other people's input on Mikecall. He isn't Town, and I still think he's likely the Jester, which is why I am not voting him anymore, but I might be biased because of my early read on him.

Mostly based off of meta, Mikecall is an enormous townread of mine. When he acts this helpful and THIS insightful, I highly doubt he is doing either a mafia or jester play. It makes no sense from both of these perspectives. Let's say he is scum, at one point he will slip or help town do actions way too much and will out himself. The mafia will know this and try to go against it.

As jester, I fail to see how acting so townie would get yourself lynched.

Your wanting to think of other people's thoughts is not typical of you, and is not town indicative of you.

I'm not voting you because your play can easily be coming from a Jester or Mafia pretending to be one, complete with begging for votes and more discredits. I like to see how everyone else responds to get the bigger picture.

Is this Calix recognizing her limitations? I'd like to think so. I think most people would find that "how everyone else responds" to be scummy but in her case I find it a genuine attempt opening her mind.

Loving the assumption of me being jester, oh what will I ever do, how will I ever win, I will be victorious -_-, gosh if you dont even get my sarcasm, sometimes I just wonder

Also, I am only asking, gosh, criticising my points just makes you awfully more suspicious than what would of been needed, please go on.

Mikecall, if you're the town I think you are, can you stop defending yourself when being called jester? If we don't vote you that's great, that means you win.

Pretty much. Whether you are unto something or not, that discussion was mostly a pissing contest between the two of you.

Your early arguments against me: You accussed me of feigned anger, then focused on the style I was using at that point (laconic replies), said I wasn't scumhunting, and were somehow suprised by my WIFOMASTER PLAN 9000, knowing that I am one with the WIFON and that I'm never to be taken at face value, not in every reply, at the very least.

Then calling seconpassing seconpleb, immediatly presenting her as someone whose arguments aren't to be taken seriously, then called her opportunist.

And now the TDL thing.

You have focused a lot in attacks to things that are irrelevant when considered on their own, and a lot of your pushes have been based on interpretations of a single word or line (he's feigning this, she's being opportunistic, he's trying to make you think that), without really backing them up with some solid evidence.

I don't think you are scum, because scum rarely tries to get into fights with this many players, especially in such a small setup, so you are either being your aggressive town self, or the Jester.

[TDL]He isn't the Jester. I'd say slightly Town. It's not that I've seen many particularly townie things from him, but rather than there's a single Mafia in this game and I have others higher on my list of suspects.

I also think secondpassing is a good candidate for scum.

Calix is acting in her usual town manner I believe. Just because she likes to call me secondpleb is derogratory and is taking my voice out of the picture, I think thats just how she thinks of me.
The most (lost the word for it here, but the word that describes she hit the nail into the coffin without killing someone) is that she hasn't yet called me an idiot yet. So far, pretty townie.

I find TDL to be my top mafia candidate, as his posts make no sense from a jester perspective. I find that his posts mirror Mikecall's in some ways, that sense of defensive (and hidden aggressiveness) to be mafia/town behavior.
Mikecall is so much more open than TDL though. I can agree with your not the jester point.

If you are going to call me scum, why don't you just say it like it is?

Yellow is to indicate unsure to null reads, anything I would indicate in red would be for either being potential mafia or jester, but for what I was saying about funce and sen, both can be categorised into different categories:

Funce being potential mafia candidate but claims from meta he works better under pressure, so we can see what his responses will be.

Sen, has showed signs of both town and mafia qualities, with some of his posts easing towards mafia / jester in the first part of his posts, but also from his latest posts, showed some town qualities.

I am going to go opposite with Calix's reads on Mikecall. Mikecall has had his second change of playstyle, last time he did this, he was town. I don't know what sorts of PM's you guys had after last game, but I'm assuming it did happen and that Mikecall learned a lot to put into his TOWN play. No reason for him to change for his scum play.

I would totally agree with the Sen post. I initially read him (Sen) as the jester due to his early obsession with the jester role ( I say obsession from my point of view) then went on to post some WIFOM. Doesn't make sense to post some WIFOM as jester, only as mafia. But since then he has ceased to do any of this sort of post. I'm having a hard time reading him so I will be making an ISO later.

Calix [80 town, 20 jester) won't vote
TheDarkestLight (60 mafia 40 town) current vote
Mikecall (90 town 10 mafia) won't vote
Sen (50 town 30 mafia 20 jester)
Funce (70 mafia 30 town) mostly based upon his lack of too many posts, I did like his observation of surface level posts though, won't vote until later today

What does this mean?
TDL is the clear scum to me
Sen is for some reason being hard to read and I don't understand why
Everything Funce says is the exactly the same as what Sen says, I don't like it

It's still a misrep, no matter your alignment. >_>

Could be I just wrote that other post, but I'm just going to put my faith into players knowing when they are tunneling. I hope Sen focuses on something other than defending at one point, because I fail to see how misrep hurts you...

Its an interesting situation. Its kind of like a board game I know. One card wins, one card loses, the rest is wrong and allow the other team to move.

I've managed to narrow down the scum to either you, secondpassing, or Sen.
I have no intention of being deceived by another Firebringer(Sen), I think that based off current posts and this one. You are incredibly scummy.
And I believe that Secondpassing's posts lack depth.
Current situation now, is looking quite good! I think your the mafia and secondpassing is the jester.

I have no intentions of lurking, Calix.

At the end of things, I realize I haven't included a single TDL post.

@Mikecall How experienced are you as a player?

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 03:26 PM

Reads:
Calix [80 town, 20 jester) won't vote
TheDarkestLight (60 mafia 40 town) current vote
Mikecall (90 town 10 mafia) won't vote
Sen (50 town 30 mafia 20 jester)
Funce (70 mafia 30 town) mostly based upon his lack of too many posts, I did like his observation of surface level posts though, won't vote until later today

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 03:29 PM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 03:40 PM

Ugh, these posts are out of order.

That sounds so darn feigned, you(Sen), not Mikecall. Mikecall does these things, and its exactly what I do. He simply had an honest overlooking of crucial information.

This doesn't make sense when Mikecall explained twice that he KNEW the Jester's win condition.

Mostly based off of meta, Mikecall is an enormous townread of mine. When he acts this helpful and THIS insightful, I highly doubt he is doing either a mafia or jester play. It makes no sense from both of these perspectives. Let's say he is scum, at one point he will slip or help town do actions way too much and will out himself. The mafia will know this and try to go against it.

As jester, I fail to see how acting so townie would get yourself lynched.

Not gonna lie, I think the tips I gave him after R+J have led to this new play-style. While it's appreciated, I don't think it's necessarily town-aligned.

Is this Calix recognizing her limitations? I'd like to think so. I think most people would find that "how everyone else responds" to be scummy but in her case I find it a genuine attempt opening her mind...Calix is acting in her usual town manner I believe. Just because she likes to call me secondpleb is derogratory and is taking my voice out of the picture, I think thats just how she thinks of me.
The most (lost the word for it here, but the word that describes she hit the nail into the coffin without killing someone) is that she hasn't yet called me an idiot yet. So far, pretty townie.

I'm impressed at secondpassing taking off the drunk goggles and not blindly tunneling. Hope springs anew?

What did you make of my 100% legit read of you as a secondary school nerdy kid? <3

Also the word you're looking for is 'damning'. The word is 'damning'

You haven't given me the opportunity to insult your intelligence that much, sweetie.

I find TDL to be my top mafia candidate, as his posts make no sense from a jester perspective. I find that his posts mirror Mikecall's in some ways, that sense of defensive (and hidden aggressiveness) to be mafia/town behavior.
Mikecall is so much more open than TDL though. I can agree with your not the jester point.

If you are going to call me scum, why don't you just say it like it is?

In all seriousness, these reads are not complete piles of shit burning in a paper bag on my doorstep, despite the massive oversight required to actively town-read Mikey boy. By that, I mean that they sound more authentic than last game. Small mercies.

I am going to go opposite with Calix's reads on Mikecall. Mikecall has had his second change of playstyle, last time he did this, he was town. I don't know what sorts of PM's you guys had after last game, but I'm assuming it did happen and that Mikecall learned a lot to put into his TOWN play. No reason for him to change for his scum play.

Well I mostly just told him that he was being a massive sheep and that he should stick to his guns more often. There's not a lot of PMing going on and they aren't personal so.

I would totally agree with the Sen post. I initially read him (Sen) as the jester due to his early obsession with the jester role ( I say obsession from my point of view) then went on to post some WIFOM. Doesn't make sense to post some WIFOM as jester, only as mafia. But since then he has ceased to do any of this sort of post. I'm having a hard time reading him so I will be making an ISO later.

Why do you think WIFOM isn't a Jester tactic?

ISOs are fine, but a reminder that including posts with the comments 'shitpost', 'fluff', 'shitpost' does not a good ISO make. Only include RELEVANT posts.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 03:42 PM

I appreciate the effort. However, I feel like your read of Mikecall does not take into account the fact that he scum-slipped about the Jester's win-con. How do you come to your town-read of him with that information?

Wow you type fast, I'm still working on TDL and Sen as we speak.
Mikecall hasn't ever scum slipped in my presence, only town slipped. If he really was jester I expect him to think about it more and control the words he chooses.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 03:45 PM

Wow you type fast, I'm still working on TDL and Sen as we speak.
Mikecall hasn't ever scum slipped in my presence, only town slipped. If he really was jester I expect him to think about it more and control the words he chooses.

He made several posts where he said 'jester being lynched means town/ mafia loses' and then he asks 'does the jester being lynched end the game?' I think this is an intentional slip designed for us to lynch him.

And yes, I do type fast when need be.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 03:59 PM

This doesn't make sense when Mikecall explained twice that he KNEW the Jester's win condition.

Not gonna lie, I think the tips I gave him after R+J have led to this new play-style. While it's appreciated, I don't think it's necessarily town-aligned.

You don't? I have a feeling he would be like me, trying to hide his real reads if he was scum.

I'm impressed at secondpassing taking off the drunk goggles and not blindly tunneling. Hope springs anew?

What did you make of my 100% legit read of you as a secondary school nerdy kid? <3

Also the word you're looking for is 'damning'. The word is 'damning'

You haven't given me the opportunity to insult your intelligence that much, sweetie.

I'm never drunk. I do get euphoric(?) though.
I don't like swearing if I can help it, some words just make so much sense in some areas though.
It's a personal crusade against vulgar speech.

In all seriousness, these reads are not complete piles of shit burning in a paper bag on my doorstep, despite the massive oversight required to actively town-read Mikey boy. By that, I mean that they sound more authentic than last game. Small mercies.

Well I mostly just told him that he was being a massive sheep and that he should stick to his guns more often. There's not a lot of PMing going on and they aren't personal so.

Well he surely is since he's typing quite a bit in depth stuff. I can't imagine a Mikecall being so through as a jester. Could be my own limitations since I can't do it myself.

Why do you think WIFOM isn't a Jester tactic?
RLVG
It didn't work and I don't think anybody here but Sen and TheDarkestLight would attempt this. Which is why I am reconsidering TDL as possible jester as well.

ISOs are fine, but a reminder that including posts with the comments 'shitpost', 'fluff', 'shitpost' does not a good ISO make. Only include RELEVANT posts.

TDL doesn't post fluff, well no actually he does and I think it will be good to point it out.

I guess I can work on Sen and TDL later. Answers in orange.

pedit: Internet reset ugh.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:01 PM

He made several posts where he said 'jester being lynched means town/ mafia loses' and then he asks 'does the jester being lynched end the game?' I think this is an intentional slip designed for us to lynch him.

And yes, I do type fast when need be.

Okay, you've reinspired me to go look again at those posts.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by secondpassing
Thats nice to know you have a town read already. How do you feel about that one lynch to lose, one lynch to lose[this was meant to say win], and another lynch to start losing options?
Its an interesting situation. Its kind of like a board game I know. One card wins, one card loses, the rest is wrong and allow the other team to move.

Orginally Posted by Funce
I've managed to narrow down the scum to either you, secondpassing, or Sen.
I have no intention of being deceived by another Firebringer(Sen), I think that based off current posts and this one. You are incredibly scummy.
And I believe that Secondpassing's posts lack depth.
Current situation now, is looking quite good! I think your the mafia and secondpassing is the jester.

I have no intentions of lurking, Calix.

I would absolutely love to see some quotes Funce because I fear my personal biases against players hinders the view that I see.
Normally I bundle a pile of quotes to find the most juicy ones.

As for the first part, I wanted to know how you FELT about the state of the game. Nice comparison anyways.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:11 PM

You don't? I have a feeling he would be like me, trying to hide his real reads if he was scum.

To what end? If he's Mafia, he needs the Jester dead as much as the next person. If he's Jester, the only person he'd deliberately town-read is the player he thinks is Mafia. Neither require a giant stretch.

I'm never drunk. I do get euphoric(?) though.
I don't like swearing if I can help it, some words just make so much sense in some areas though.
It's a personal crusade against vulgar speech.

Euphoric?

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/37446613.jpg

Damning is a swear word? secondpleb confirmed Mormon.

Well he surely is since he's typing quite a bit in depth stuff. I can't imagine a Mikecall being so through as a jester. Could be my own limitations since I can't do it myself.

"He's putting in effort! Scum never put in effort, must be town."

Standard jester strategies (trolling and L0 wolfing) would not work very well in this setup.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:18 PM

To what end? If he's Mafia, he needs the Jester dead as much as the next person. If he's Jester, the only person he'd deliberately town-read is the player he thinks is Mafia. Neither require a giant stretch.

"He's putting in effort! Scum never put in effort, must be town."

Standard jester strategies (trolling and L0 wolfing) would not work very well in this setup.

I'm thinking about this but I can't see how this works. I think he would instead have to deliberately scum-read a town player, because if the mafia died he loses.

Funce
Calix
TheDarkestlight
Secondpassing
Sen

If we go by what you say, that means he actually thinks you or TDL is the scum.

Whats L0 wolfing?

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:20 PM

I don't agree with the Mormon faith, but their followers do exhibit some respectable qualities.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:23 PM

I'm thinking about this but I can't see how this works. I think he would instead have to deliberately scum-read a town player, because if the mafia died he loses.

If we go by what you say, that means he actually thinks you or TDL is the scum.

Whats L0 wolfing?

My thought process was that the Jester would want to avoid the night kill, so may attempt to buddy with his Mafia reads in an attempt to evade that.

I don't understand your jump here. He explicitly said that he thinks Funce/ Sen are the scum and that yellow = null (for some reason he thinks you are 100% null)

To be really basic, L0 entails the simplest, most obvious scum strategies/ attitudes you can think of. Almost no WIFOM required.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:23 PM

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:25 PM

If my gender, beliefs, philosophies, and attitudes are bothering you so much that you can't read me I'll be happy to answer those suspicions of yours.

Otherwise I'll just remain pleasantly "amused" at who you think I am.

I'm poking you so that you tell me about yourself, not so I can scum/ town read you better. I know almost nothing about you after all.

My theory remains strong until given a reason to assume otherwise.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:26 PM

My thought process was that the Jester would want to avoid the night kill, so may attempt to buddy with his Mafia reads in an attempt to evade that.

I don't understand your jump here. He explicitly said that he thinks Funce/ Sen are the scum and that yellow = null (for some reason he thinks you are 100% null)

To be really basic, L0 entails the simplest, most obvious scum strategies/ attitudes you can think of. Almost no WIFOM required.

My jump was:

Mikecall thinks TDL/Calix are town
Jester buddies with mafia (Calix equation)
town -> scum

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 04:28 PM

That sounds so darn feigned, you(Sen), not Mikecall. Mikecall does these things, and its exactly what I do. He simply had an honest overlooking of crucial information.
Calix already pointed out that Mikecall was well aware of this information. You are just defending him for no good reason.

Mostly based off of meta, Mikecall is an enormous townread of mine. When he acts this helpful and THIS insightful, I highly doubt he is doing either a mafia or jester play. It makes no sense from both of these perspectives.
He hasn't done anything resembling scumhunting. This only confirms that you are townreading him for the sake of it.

Your wanting to think of other people's thoughts is not typical of you, and is not town indicative of you.
I'm aware that if I push hard on someone, there's a pretty big chance that said person will be the lynch of the day. And while it's true that I rarely care much about what others think once I've nailed down the scum, me having confirmation bias here could cost us the game. It's important to know your limitations. I sure know mine.

If you are going to call me scum, why don't you just say it like it is?
Do I need to bring apples and oranges?
Have I said I think you are scum? Yes.
Am I voting you? Yes.
Do I want you lynched? Yes.

I hope Sen focuses on something other than defending at one point, because I fail to see how misrep hurts you...
Defending what? Other than first page Calix, noone has made any noteworthy case against me. A defense requires an attack.

Misreps hurt because they are effectively ad hominems, and a player being bad is only important when considering a policy lynch.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:30 PM

My jump was:

Mikecall thinks TDL/Calix are town
Jester buddies with mafia (Calix equation)
town -> scum

Ah, you applied my theory to the Jester suspect. Okay, that makes more sense.

Mind you, that assumes that Mikecall is Jester and acted in accordance with my theory, so I don't think that necessarily means he scum-read TDL (this was made before TDL and I fought)

I am inclined to be massively biased since Mikecall had TDL as a town read, so I am not reliable here.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:31 PM

I'm poking you so that you tell me about yourself, not so I can scum/ town read you better. I know almost nothing about you after all.

My theory remains strong until given a reason to assume otherwise.

This post is consuming me. I'll think about it since I kind of like where I am now.

Calix

March 19th, 2016, 04:33 PM

This post is consuming me. I'll think about it since I kind of like where I am now.

Here I'll translate.

TELL ME MORE ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL LIFE PLS THIS HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THE GAME LOL

Tah dah, I am pro scum-reader.

I am also really tired, so my posts will suck ass.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:38 PM

Calix already pointed out that Mikecall was well aware of this information. You are just defending him for no good reason.

He hasn't done anything resembling scumhunting. This only confirms that you are townreading him for the sake of it.

I'm aware that if I push hard on someone, there's a pretty big chance that said person will be the lynch of the day. And while it's true that I rarely care much about what others think once I've nailed down the scum, me having confirmation bias here could cost us the game. It's important to know your limitations. I sure know mine.

Do I need to bring apples and oranges?
Have I said I think you are scum? Yes.
Am I voting you? Yes.
Do I want you lynched? Yes.

Defending what? Other than first page Calix, noone has made any noteworthy case against me. A defense requires an attack.

Misreps hurt because they are effectively ad hominems, and a player being bad is only important when considering a policy lynch.

You're right, at this point I am. I'm distracted right now, I said I would go back to review his posts and haven't done so yet since I don't have a good picture of everyone just yet. I have yet to consider the words of TheDarkestLight, and yours in context with other player's posts. So yes, expect something on Mikecall soon, I'll do it now since both of you are on.

No? Mikecall doesn't exactly scumhunt, ever. He does usually try to appear as town and setup spec. He's doing a more in-depth analysis of it, so no he's still town.

It might be out of context but i'm pretty sure she said you were a jester or something. If people think you are a jester, there really isn't a point in pushing it unless you are jester and want to get lynched. Everyone else except Funce has pushed back against this sort of jester suspicion and it makes no sense. You = jester = less time spent.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 04:57 PM

Except me, and at the end of things, Calix too.
I find that you repeating "be that stupid" is not sufficient for you or Sen because your self-awareness gives you the ability to change the attitude to hide it.

A: K

B: I don't need to mention your read as your read had no influence on mine.

C: See D.

D: Someone here isn't reading. I have already stated how everything will go down and you refuse you acknowledge that. That is just adding to your scum level.

Emotional OMGUS? Not really, that would imply you accused me of being scum or voted me. You did neither, you simply attempted to discredit me as useless since I was town read by a few people and you obviously felt threatened by that since you're Mafia and you wanted to make sure no one was strongly town read, especially going into tomorrow which is where, as I have stated, the game will be pretty much over as just a single night of night actions is enough to steal the deal on this game FMPoV.

Of course scum like you just want to make sure to mislynch today and ensure there are no strong town reads going into tomorrow, save yourself.

And if you're not Mafia, your play is just bad and you need to improve, unless you're jester, in which case... good job, you made yourself seem Mafia as fuck.

I find this post to be a misrep of Calix. I can agree with Sen's assessment of tunneling, but this is tunneling-defensive. We can see the use of appeal to authority as well as the if statement. I generally find attacking other people without giving defenses of others or yourself to be usually a scum move. I don't have a meta of TheDarkestLight since I've only read one game with him in it and played another game with minimal interaction with him.

I've already stated why I scum read you, and it was because you discredit just for the purpose of discrediting, whether it's just bad playstyle or the fact you're Mafia, I'm not sure. But I'm going with the former. And you're too lazy to argue because you don't have any counter.

And I specifically said discrediting is bad when you discredit just to discredit. You stated you leaned town towards me but saw fit to discredit me, that's typical scum play and anyone with half a brain could see that.

And oh no, you think one post is useless, God forbid. I mean, that's nowhere near how many useless posts you have, but by God when I do it it's bad. I guess when you have as many useless posts as you it doesn't matter hmmmm?

And that's besides the fact I've already explained that singular post. So if you want some tutoring on how to read properly after the game I'll help you. But of course now little missy it isn't the time, especially since you're the Mafia.

See above.

By going out to prove your not scum, which you haven't done a single time except now with this super big "OMGUS".

"Oh, hey's accusing me of scum and I found a super weak opening, I'll exploit it and call him out as scum despite what I said previously."
And "former", was a typo, meant to be "latter". You are scum reading off a typing mistake, strong reads you got there.

And citation needed? Guess you aren't reading a less than 100 post game.

And I attack your play style because despite the fact I believe you to be the Mafia, there is always the slight chance it's just Failix being Failix. (See? I can do shotty nicknames too!)

Yes, they will see that... coming from the person with the same play every game. So why should anyone ever town read you if this is your typical play style?

But oh gosh, the OMGUS on me, I guess you got me, I'm obviously the Mafia because I made a typo and said former rather than latter, holy shit the world is going to end because I made a typo.

Now that you seem to think I'm scum out of fucking nowhere, come up with a better reason as to why, because even your fake reads are bad.

One of his redeeming town posts.

Says the scummiest person around.

You DO need investigation, and I highly suggest you are one of the ones investigated.

You are scummy as hell for trying to push investigations away from yourself. Got something to hide? If you didn't you wouldn't be trying to direct them away.

Not only are you making sure you aren't investigated, you're giving them fucking ORDERS on who to target. You are in no position to be giving orders to anyone, because you are the scummiest person around.

I'm only -suggesting- one on you, but it isn't needed FMPoV that much. It just puts icing on the cake.

Can you sense the fear in this one? This post makes no sense from a jester perspective since I doubt the jester fears the investigative roles. I can't see the WIFOM from as a jester because they wouldn't need to do it, there is a special thing to note right here and I hope you all have noticed it.

So far what I've seen from this game is non-stop

"Oh, but his play suggests Jester, so we shouldn't vote him."

So is half the fucking game a jester? At this point we're never going to lynch because all anyone will do is go "Oh, he's probably a Jester" "Oh, his play shows he's a Jester" "Not sure if he's Mafia or Jester. Won't vote to be safe."

Most of these posts are so conscious.

Doing a review of his posts lets me believe that my vote is justified and continues to be. Many of these posts indicates how he is not the jester and is a safe lynch.
1. attacks without defense
2. relies upon others for defense
3. director of night actions in that special way

Let's lynch.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 04:57 PM

No? Mikecall doesn't exactly scumhunt, ever. He does usually try to appear as town and setup spec. He's doing a more in-depth analysis of it, so no he's still town.
"He's town because he's always scummy".
I don't care about what he does or doesn't. He isn't scumhunting. That much is a fact. He is being scummy as fuck, and hasn't contributed anything of value besides elementary school fractions.

I'm not going to townread someone just because they're bad.

It might be out of context but i'm pretty sure she said you were a jester or something. If people think you are a jester, there really isn't a point in pushing it unless you are jester and want to get lynched. Everyone else except Funce has pushed back against this sort of jester suspicion and it makes no sense. You = jester = less time spent.
Then why make up that I've been defending myself? I think my single "defense" against that accusation by Calix was a "piss off" and telling her not to misrep me.

Most of your reply was focused on me, and now you say that it's pointless to push me because I'm the Jester, so it's fair to say that your largest contribution by far was a big fluff.

Then you suddenly say that TDL is scum (conveniently enough, given that Calix will have a lot of weight when deciding if you hang today, and TDL seems to be the other likely candidate), yet never addressed a single one of his posts before saying that you are sure that he is scum.
And let's not forget the fact that you have Funce listed as scummier than TDL. lol

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 04:58 PM

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:03 PM

You have been saying OMGUS posts a lot lately in my posts, is it because you dont like the scenario of a no lynch? seems I got your attention havent I.

And how havent I pushed anyone in any way? I think you dont even see the posts lately about trying to push for funce to contribute more to the chat base, or havent you read my posts so far from that?

But back on topic, please say why my tactic is scummy as fuck, you claim it will affect the chances of jester winning more on d2, then why do you think not pushing for a lynch is going to help town in any way, you do know the suituation, 1 misslynch = incredible chance of being in a 2v1v1 suituation where jester or mafia have the choice on who wins.

So lets say we follow your plan, we lynch a scum or we lynch a town, how would that help us in any way?

But I'll graph it out so you know:

The suituation we are in is a 4v1v1 (Town vs Jester vs Mafia)

The scenarios we are put into:

Lynch town (3v1v1) + with Night Kill (2v1v1) = Lylo to Win which would be hard to accomplish for town
Lynch Jester (4v0v1) But Jester Wins = Ending Game
Lynch Mafia (4v1v0) Town Wins = Ending Game

We are put in more of a position of misslynching town over scum since lynching mafia would be a 5/6 chance of failing and
1/6 chance of Town Win = 16.7% chance
1/6 chance of Jester Win = 16.7% chance
4/6 chance of misslynching Town = 66.7%

Now sen, what are your thoughts on this?

But a question, if the jester does get lynched, does it automatically end the game in a Jester win?

Yes, I believe I missed that in the first time reading through. But none of his other posts seem to indicate he is jester. Call me inflexible, but I have a hard time switching my read on Mikecall. The point of the question was wondering if the jester would end the game not make him win. And why should he care about the game if he already wins and dies?

You can consider my town read on Calix to be stronger than Mikecall at this point.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:04 PM

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:14 PM

"He's town because he's always scummy".
I don't care about what he does or doesn't. He isn't scumhunting. That much is a fact. He is being scummy as fuck, and hasn't contributed anything of value besides elementary school fractions.

I'm not going to townread someone just because they're bad.

Then why make up that I've been defending myself? I think my single "defense" against that accusation by Calix was a "piss off" and telling her not to misrep me.

Most of your reply was focused on me, and now you say that it's pointless to push me because I'm the Jester, so it's fair to say that your largest contribution by far was a big fluff.

Then you suddenly say that TDL is scum (conveniently enough, given that Calix will have a lot of weight when deciding if you hang today, and TDL seems to be the other likely candidate), yet never addressed a single one of his posts before saying that you are sure that he is scum.
And let's not forget the fact that you have Funce listed as scummier than TDL. lol

Just because they act scummy doesn't mean they are actually scum. That assumption only works if you are in a game full of really experienced players. It's not about being simply scummy, its being scummy towards the fact that they are scum. That means you would lynch Mikecall every game. So no, you lynch players if they are acting scummier than they usually are. In relative scumness, Mikecall is not being very scummy. I can townread bad players (don't worry Mikecall, you're not actually bad).

I didn't say you were the Jester, but looking back at it, you actually do have the highest jester rating according to my reads. I'm not exactly hunting the jester today, I'm only hunting those that don't seem like the jester and look like the mafia. Why are you so focused on that role?

And even though I haven't concluded you are the jester, you're pushing it. Stop, I'm going to focus on someone else. I'm not going to sit around and have you call my posts fluff.

I've got Funce listed as scummier than TDL, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to see more out of him and lynch TheDarkestLight today. I think Funce will present himself in one way or the other very soon.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:18 PM

Just because they act scummy doesn't mean they are actually scum. That assumption only works if you are in a game full of really experienced players. It's not about being simply scummy, its being scummy towards the fact that they are scum. That means you would lynch Mikecall every game. So no, you lynch players if they are acting scummier than they usually are. In relative scumness, Mikecall is not being very scummy. I can townread bad players (don't worry Mikecall, you're not actually bad).
Let's quote myself: META IS FOR PLEBS.
Mikecall is scum this game, and you have been defending him without even reading (you conceded as much). Your argument in the subject is plain stupid.

I didn't say you were the Jester, but looking back at it, you actually do have the highest jester rating according to my reads. I'm not exactly hunting the jester today, I'm only hunting those that don't seem like the jester and look like the mafia. Why are you so focused on that role?
You brought it up a couple of replies ago, saying that people read me as the Jester, and that's the reason why you didn't push me after saying I was scum. Now you say you don't think so.
Seeing a pattern here? You keep making shit up every other post.

Stop, I'm going to focus on someone else. I'm not going to sit around and have you call my posts fluff.
Then prove them to be anything but.

I've got Funce listed as scummier than TDL, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to see more out of him and lynch TheDarkestLight today. I think Funce will present himself in one way or the other very soon.
Funce was online after you wrote that textwall, and then he vanished. Of course, that doesn't matter, since you just make reads up and push them without any basis.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 05:18 PM

1.- Secondpassing says s/he's sure that TDL is scum.
2.- Finds the reasons for said accusation AFTER. (post hoc)
3.- Calix had made it pretty clear that she thinks TDL to be scum.
4.- Calix had also suggested that investigatives check Secondpassing tonight.
5.- Secondpassing has been mentioned as a likely scum candidate by at least half of the players.

I'm gonna call it right here: Secondpassing is Mafia, trying to buddy Calix.

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."

The fact that no one is even considering a lynch on Calix is pathetic, you just brush it aside like nothing.

Show me one reason how she's town or a jester, without bringing up meta, because I know there are none, whereas there are plenty of reasons as to why she is scum.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:23 PM

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."
She called you useless, you got mad, and both entered a pissing contest.

I already explained that, if scum, her behavour fits the Jester, not the Mafia, just like if you were scum, yours would fit the Mafia and not the Jester.

The fact that no one is even considering a lynch on Calix is pathetic, you just brush it aside like nothing.
Then make a solid case other than "she hurt my feeling and I'm gonna tunnel her to death".

Show me one reason how she's town or a jester, without bringing up meta, because I know there are none, whereas there are plenty of reasons as to why she is scum.
She is Town because along with me, she's the one doing the most scumhunting.
She's pushed me, Mikecall, you, and secondpassing. If she's scum, she0s the Jester. No Mafia wants to get into fights with 4 out of the 5 other players.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:28 PM

1.- Secondpassing says s/he's sure that TDL is scum.
2.- Finds the reasons for said accusation AFTER. (post hoc)
3.- Calix had made it pretty clear that she thinks TDL to be scum.
4.- Calix had also suggested that investigatives check Secondpassing tonight.
5.- Secondpassing has been mentioned as a likely scum candidate by at least half of the players.

I'm gonna call it right here: Secondpassing is Mafia, trying to buddy Calix.

I voted TheDarkestLight first, part on RVS, part on emotion. Just because I confirmed my fears after it is not a post hoc. You used that logical fallacy wrong by the way. It's a simple formula, you feel that someone is scum, then you look into it and see if it was correct.

Sen your continued focus on me is alarming. Are you just trying to come up with things against me to say?
I believe you mentioned the necessity of town reading, yet I don't remember you doing any.

Oh yay, everyone is townreading me.

Sen is likely town due to the sheer dumbfuckery. "I voted you because I thought you were Jester". No Mafia or Jester would be that fucking stupid, and if they are I will be truly ashamed.

And I don't get why people are so terrified of saying potential jester strategies. The chance he/she would even use said strategy is low due to human stubbornness and the fact that if he/she did it would result in us easily picking it out.

Except me, and at the end of things, Calix too.
I find that you repeating "be that stupid" is not sufficient for you or Sen because your self-awareness gives you the ability to change the attitude to hide it.

[QUOTE=TheDarkestLight;575074]

Misquoted, that was actually not written by me. But if this post is what I think it means, no I'm willing to believe it it's Sen and TheDarkestLight.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:30 PM

I'm back, and by reading through it, loads of people are contradicting that specific post on the jester win com, yes, I only said that specific question because I wanted to make sure, with the post with the 4v0v1 post, that jester would indeed lose us the game. (I wanted to just make sure before ending that part of the discussion).

But by the end of it, its your choice whether or not that strong case you built up would really strongly think that I am jester, but all I am saying is, I aint even jester at all, or neither mafia.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:31 PM

I voted TheDarkestLight first, part on RVS, part on emotion. Just because I confirmed my fears after it is not a post hoc. You used that logical fallacy wrong by the way. It's a simple formula, you feel that someone is scum, then you look into it and see if it was correct.
I don't mean you RVS vote. In your textwall, you concluded that "I'm sure TDL is scum", when you hadn't even read his posts (you confirmed as much when replying to Calix). Then after a while, you finally got to find some quotes and say he's scum because of that.

Sen your continued focus on me is alarming. Are you just trying to come up with things against me to say?
I believe you mentioned the necessity of town reading, yet I don't remember you doing any.
OMG, Sen is pushing the who he's pegged as the single Mafia in this setup! The outrage!
And of course you don't remember, since you pull reads out of your ass. I've been saying that Calix is town ad nauseam, and by stating that you are the Mafia and Mikecall the Jester, then everybody else is town by POE.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:33 PM

I'm back, and by reading through it, loads of people are contradicting that specific post on the jester win com, yes, I only said that specific question because I wanted to make sure, with the post with the 4v0v1 post, that jester would indeed lose us the game. (I wanted to just make sure before ending that part of the discussion).

Oh, so you were only trying to make sure that RLVG didn't mistype the entirety of the Jester's wincon.
My bad. I don't know how I could be so wrong.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 05:33 PM

She called you useless, you got mad, and both entered a pissing contest.

I already explained that, if scum, her behavour fits the Jester, not the Mafia, just like if you were scum, yours would fit the Mafia and not the Jester.

Then make a solid case other than "she hurt my feeling and I'm gonna tunnel her to death".

She is Town because along with me, she's the one doing the most scumhunting.
She's pushed me, Mikecall, you, and secondpassing. If she's scum, she0s the Jester. No Mafia wants to get into fights with 4 out of the 5 other players.

Yes, because clearly the Mafia is incapable of scum hunting. You realize they have nothing to worry about since they have no partners?

I went at her because she made scummy moves, not personal reasons, and I already made a case, so you should probably reread it a few times since it apparently went over your head.

"Oh, but the Mafia won't want to anger anyone"

Oh yeah, I guess the best strategy as Mafia is to -not- do what a townsperson would do and stick out like a sore thumb.

Normally the logic of "They're not scumhunting" is a weak phrase typically held up by noobish towns, very rarely scum. It gives no indicator of alignment. Now then, who they are scumhunting is different as that could mean connections depending on who they scumhunt, and how they scumhunting certain people, but since there is only one Mafia in this game those connections won't exist.

And don't you think the Mafia would want to Jester hunt? I mean, they only need to make sure that they don't get lynched, just like us.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:33 PM

Let's quote myself: META IS FOR PLEBS.
Mikecall is scum this game, and you have been defending him without even reading (you conceded as much). Your argument in the subject is plain stupid.

You brought it up a couple of replies ago, saying that people read me as the Jester, and that's the reason why you didn't push me after saying I was scum. Now you say you don't think so.
Seeing a pattern here? You keep making shit up every other post.

Then prove them to be anything but.

Funce was online after you wrote that textwall, and then he vanished. Of course, that doesn't matter, since you just make reads up and push them without any basis.

I'M A PLEB. I have no qualms against using it.

Mikecall is not scum this game, and I have already stated my reason as to why. He isn't acting as scummy as usual this game, and aside from that one odd comment, hes been doing good analysis. Even you don't think he is scum this game.

My stuff evolves as I go into it, and I write my heart as I get to it. If I had the time to bring up every post of why I think which way, I'd only be reading the game and not posting.

You just didn't read my posts.

Funce was online, but I was busy typing. Sure that is a scummy move, but Funce has done that before. And if there is nothing to push then don't push it.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:35 PM

Its an interesting situation. Its kind of like a board game I know. One card wins, one card loses, the rest is wrong and allow the other team to move.

I've managed to narrow down the scum to either you, secondpassing, or Sen.
I have no intention of being deceived by another Firebringer(Sen), I think that based off current posts and this one. You are incredibly scummy.
And I believe that Secondpassing's posts lack depth.
Current situation now, is looking quite good! I think your the mafia and secondpassing is the jester.

I have no intentions of lurking, Calix.

Really now, so you think I am mafia, good job -_-, now I will be said to be a jester also as well.

But enough of the shitposting from myself,
If you are so hesitiate to thinking I am mafia, then why would you not vote me then? do you still fear that I am still jester?
Or is it do you still fear that the misslynch, like people have said before, would put us into lylo, from what I said from the scenarios that I have put up.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:38 PM

Oh, so you were only trying to make sure that RLVG didn't mistype the entirety of the Jester's wincon.
My bad. I don't know how I could be so wrong.

Do I hear sarcasm, or do I hear you conviently trying to discredit me for my type of play, oh what will go wrong.

Please say more, its what I love hearing.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:39 PM

Yes, because clearly the Mafia is incapable of scum hunting. You realize they have nothing to worry about since they have no partners?
There's scumhunting, and then there are fluffs. Mafia can fluff their way to the endgame and like Secondpassing's vote count displays, most people won't really care about it.

I went at her because she made scummy moves, not personal reasons, and I already made a case, so you should probably reread it a few times since it apparently went over your head.
I'll do that and try to read between all of the insults and misreps to see if there's anything of actual value there.

"Oh, but the Mafia won't want to anger anyone"

Oh yeah, I guess the best strategy as Mafia is to -not- do what a townsperson would do and stick out like a sore thumb.
Why not? With people such as Secondpassing saying that Mikecall is town because he always looks like scum, that wuld be a perfect strategy on this site.

And don't you think the Mafia would want to Jester hunt? I mean, they only need to make sure that they don't get lynched, just like us.
*shrugs* The only alignment indicator I give such heavy weight as a generality is scumhunting. Other than that, I tend to focus on particulars and not in what one alignment or the other is supposed to do.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:40 PM

Mikecall is not scum this game, and I have already stated my reason as to why. He isn't acting as scummy as usual this game, and aside from that one odd comment, hes been doing good analysis. Even you don't think he is scum this game.
So a player who you say is always scummy suddenly tries not to be so scummy and you think that's ok, even when your whoel argument is based on nothing but meta?

Whatever. I've said my part, and it's there for everybody to see.
Gonna focus on TDL/Calix now.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:41 PM

I don't mean you RVS vote. In your textwall, you concluded that "I'm sure TDL is scum", when you hadn't even read his posts (you confirmed as much when replying to Calix). Then after a while, you finally got to find some quotes and say he's scum because of that.

OMG, Sen is pushing the who he's pegged as the single Mafia in this setup! The outrage!
And of course you don't remember, since you pull reads out of your ass. I've been saying that Calix is town ad nauseam, and by stating that you are the Mafia and Mikecall the Jester, then everybody else is town by POE.

Is PoE the only way you're going to find town?

No, your idea of me not reading his posts is wrong. I simply said I needed to look more in depth of his posts, which means I've already read his posts at least once. Why did I do that? I analyzed my own wall and noticed there was nothing of TheDarkestLight's on it. TDL is still scum, doesn't matter how you try to make of it.

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."

The fact that no one is even considering a lynch on Calix is pathetic, you just brush it aside like nothing.

Show me one reason how she's town or a jester, without bringing up meta, because I know there are none, whereas there are plenty of reasons as to why she is scum.

Calix is continuing to maintain a open outlook toward all players instead of tunneling a few to find faults with them.
She literally talked to every player in this game and came out all the better for it. Just realized I said exactly what Sen said.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:43 PM

@Funce Since I'm taking a break from typing, you still have to answer about reading and leaving. I need your opinions on every single player in the game as updated.
Also please answer the question on how you feel about the state of the game if nothing else.

Mikecall

March 19th, 2016, 05:44 PM

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 05:50 PM

There's scumhunting, and then there are fluffs. Mafia can fluff their way to the endgame and like Secondpassing's vote count displays, most people won't really care about it.

I'll do that and try to read between all of the insults and misreps to see if there's anything of actual value there.

Why not? With people such as Secondpassing saying that Mikecall is town because he always looks like scum, that wuld be a perfect strategy on this site.

*shrugs* The only alignment indicator I give such heavy weight as a generality is scumhunting. Other than that, I tend to focus on particulars and not in what one alignment or the other is supposed to do.

I have SP in my Jester list.

Alright, read.

You are voting SP, which suggests you think SP is Mafia... and you're taking the read on Mikecall to heart?

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.

Scumhunting is weak, especially day one. That is why I don't see scumhunting as a tell for alignment, and why I don't think you should either. I mean, you said it yourself that scumhunting is very weak day one, so why bank alignments on it when, since it's so weak, it's easily faked?

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:51 PM

#89: Calix calls your #88 a fluff. Starts her misrep.

#90: You vote her because she's misreping you, and you state that such things aren't pro-town. Note that you didn't call her scum, just "not pro-town".

And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...
That along with your "Everybody townreads me" of your previous post shoul a lot of self-awareness and an intention to project a townie image to others.

#91: The pissing contest starts.

#92 - #95: "I'll reply to your misrep with a misrep!" Nothing of worth there.

#96: You say she's Mafia, or maybe not.

#97: Calix calls you scum.

All the way to #111: More pissing contest.

Conclusion: The whole argument was a "hurr, you're discrediting me!" followed by half a page of utter stupidity. I don't think any of you have presented a solid case on the other, and are just dragging you e-penis/tits measuring contest and hurting the Town in the process.

secondpassing

March 19th, 2016, 05:53 PM

Also second, for the question I saw earlier, I thought my posts would of shown my inexperienced nature, which of course is quite inexperienced, aint even going to deny that, but I will state it in post game.

Thanks Mikecall.

@Everyone else I guess we'll discuss later. Maybe in four hours if you're on.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:56 PM

You are voting SP, which suggests you think SP is Mafia... and you're taking the read on Mikecall to heart?
Yes. I haven't seen any reason to not think that any of those reads are wrong.

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.
While true, that's boring as fuck. I stated early during the day that we could break this setup in a minute if so was our intention, but that I didn't want to turn a game of Mafia into nothing but setup and strategy analysis. That bores me.

Scumhunting is weak, especially day one. That is why I don't see scumhunting as a tell for alignment, and why I don't think you should either. I mean, you said it yourself that scumhunting is very weak day one, so why bank alignments on it when, since it's so weak, it's easily faked?
I agree that day 1 reads tend to be the topkek, yet this is a micro setup with a single Mafia. It's not such an impossible task.
And even if I trust my d2+ reads way more than any previous ones, I'm god enough to nail the scum this early. Hell, on FM XIX I nailed my first scum on page one in a 40~ players setup. I'm pretty sure I can find 2 scum in a 6 players one.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:57 PM

Yes. I haven't seen any reason to think that any of those reads are wrong.
Fixed.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 05:59 PM

That should've said "I'm good enough".
lol@ "I'm god enough". Nah, I'm not THAT good.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 06:10 PM

The link to the day end time is broken /says it ended over a day ago)
I think the game ends in some 16 hours from now. I don't know if I'll be home and/or awake by then.

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 06:13 PM

Shame you don't see what I see.

Yes. I haven't seen any reason to not think that any of those reads are wrong.

While true, that's boring as fuck. I stated early during the day that we could break this setup in a minute if so was our intention, but that I didn't want to turn a game of Mafia into nothing but setup and strategy analysis. That bores me.

I agree that day 1 reads tend to be the topkek, yet this is a micro setup with a single Mafia. It's not such an impossible task.
And even if I trust my d2+ reads way more than any previous ones, I'm god enough to nail the scum this early. Hell, on FM XIX I nailed my first scum on page one in a 40~ players setup. I'm pretty sure I can find 2 scum in a 6 players one.

And by taking the Mikecall read to heart, I meant SP's read on Mikecall.

Boring... I always thought that if we broke setups that could be won instantly with math eventually people would start making setups that can't be instantly broken and thus we'd get better setups and thus potentially better scumhunters.

When I went at attacking scumhunting here, I wasn't attacking scumhunting in general, but gathering reads based off if someone is scumhunting or not.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 06:19 PM

Shame you don't see what I see.

And by taking the Mikecall read to heart, I meant SP's read on Mikecall.

Boring... I always thought that if we broke setups that could be won instantly with math eventually people would start making setups that can't be instantly broken and thus we'd get better setups and thus potentially better scumhunters.

When I went at attacking scumhunting here, I wasn't attacking scumhunting in general, but gathering reads based off if someone is scumhunting or not.

SP confuses me; if you ISO his posts, they swing all over the place, reads change from one post to the other, and what was previously a reason for doing one thing, suddenly transforms into a mistake, a gut feeling, or similar.

As for scumhunting, whil I would argue that it is possible to scumhunt without posting a single thing during a day, this is a setup that should be done after a lynch and a set of night actions. Not making the most of d1 in this setup doesn't make any sense from a Town's perspective.

And on that note, it's a good moment to point out that Funce has been lurking, sheeped my reads but never casted a vote. What do you think of this?

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 06:22 PM

SP confuses me; if you ISO his posts, they swing all over the place, reads change from one post to the other, and what was previously a reason for doing one thing, suddenly transforms into a mistake, a gut feeling, or similar.

As for scumhunting, whil I would argue that it is possible to scumhunt without posting a single thing during a day, this is a setup that should be done after a lynch and a set of night actions. Not making the most of d1 in this setup doesn't make any sense from a Town's perspective.

And on that note, it's a good moment to point out that Funce has been lurking, sheeped my reads but never casted a vote. What do you think of this?

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 06:37 PM

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.
Because it's benefitial for the Town. Simple as that.

Whether you agree with Calix or not, think she's scum of not, you must acknoledge that she's one of the few who have helped to incite discussions which then help to get reads. There's no need for scum to do any of that; you can pretend to be busy, lurk around, or simply vomit a few fluffs and call it a day. The site meta is so broken that all of those behaviours are not only considered NAI, but even promoted by others.

In short; there's no need for scum to go out of their way to be pro-town. Not on this site, at the very least.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 06:41 PM

What do you make of Secondpassing, btw? You mentioned you think she's the Jester, which would mean that she's pushing for a mislynch (if she thought you were Mafia, she wouldn't vote you because that would make her lose). A mislynch only benefits the Mafia (because of 2 v 1 v 1 on d2); a Jester would be pushing a no-lynch in this game.

RLVG

March 19th, 2016, 07:37 PM

The link to the day end time is broken /says it ended over a day ago)
I think the game ends in some 16 hours from now. I don't know if I'll be home and/or awake by then.

Diagnosing.

Date is wrong.

Fixed. (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=18:00+20th+march+2016+Norway)

TheDarkestLight

March 19th, 2016, 07:59 PM

Because it's benefitial for the Town. Simple as that.

Whether you agree with Calix or not, think she's scum of not, you must acknoledge that she's one of the few who have helped to incite discussions which then help to get reads. There's no need for scum to do any of that; you can pretend to be busy, lurk around, or simply vomit a few fluffs and call it a day. The site meta is so broken that all of those behaviours are not only considered NAI, but even promoted by others.

In short; there's no need for scum to go out of their way to be pro-town. Not on this site, at the very least.

There is need for scum to do contribute and that's because it helps them blend in or appear as strong town. Whether it is the sites meta or not, I hear you say that you hate meta, so why use site meta as an excuse?

As for SP, an ML could help the Jester as due to the two, likely three heals most likely means no deaths tonight.

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 10:16 PM

I feel like I've been snagged on Sen's reasoning and now I can't get out.
My reads have not changed.
I still think SP and Mikecall are the scum, and if they're not then its Sen.
All I know, is that its not TDL.

I've been flitting through, haven't been able to post. I just read up a lot because if I get too far behind, I'll skip things, and miss interesting developments.
It only takes a single sentence for me to flip on someone.
It might be(still stuck in Sen) confirmation bias. But Mikecall's arguments are very damning for me.

I also do not know if my read on you, secondpassing, is confirmation bias either. I can not get out of my head that you are kind of floating and not really doing much.
I see some logic. But I'm still stuck in Sen's reasoning.

Again, My reads have not changed.

Town
Calix
TDL

Scum
Mikecall
Secondpassing

Probable Town, but too smart to discount.
Sen.

Firebringer played me for a fool. I am afraid of it happening again.
I will vote.
SeCoNdPaSsInG

Funce

March 19th, 2016, 10:17 PM

I also find it incredibly interesting, how I am your highest scum-read. But I don't see any super-hard pushing.
I hear your "Lets hear your thoughts on the situation" But my mind is already made up.
I could argue how TDL is town, which I think is the only other train today.

Sen

March 19th, 2016, 11:21 PM

There is need for scum to do contribute and that's because it helps them blend in or appear as strong town.
Like I said; there's a difference from fluffs and actual contribution/scumhunting. Contributions lead to further discussion and new information. Scum doesn't need to contribute in order to blend in, they just need to look like they contribute.

Can Calix be scum? Sure; any of you could be. Do her actions point towards that? Nope.
Sure, she was misreping you, but hell, if we were to lynch anyone who misreps, insults, or throws ad hominems during a pissing contest, we would need more nooses than there are in this world.

As for SP, an ML could help the Jester as due to the two, likely three heals most likely means no deaths tonight.
I guess that could work with the right night actions, but still think the no-lynch would be their obvious play because it doesn't leave anything up to chance during the night.

I'm going out. Might be able to take a look at the thread before the day ends, but then I've got stuff to do tomorrow and won't be on for most of the day.

I think I've said my part at this point, and without any new developments, there's not much to add. I'd like to ask TDL and Calix to go back and read their pissing contest and see if you would really consider that scummy if it wasn't directed at you. Use your head instead of simply voting someone because you got mad.
It's not that we're gonna lose if we end the day with a no-lynch, but it would certainly complicate things in an unnecessary way.

Have a good one.
http://i.imgur.com/RMY1Xdd.jpg

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 02:08 AM

So much to comment on. I had to cut most of this out. I'll just say that I quite liked the secondpassing/ Sen interactions. I think Sen fared better in that respect compared to secondpassing's...odd comments.

Can you sense the fear in this one? This post makes no sense from a jester perspective since I doubt the jester fears the investigative roles.

Uh, why WOULDN'T the Jester fear Investigatives? Once they show up as 'your target is a girl' they are done for in terms of getting lynched.

Doing a review of his posts lets me believe that my vote is justified and continues to be. Many of these posts indicates how he is not the jester and is a safe lynch.
1. attacks without defense
2. relies upon others for defense
3. director of night actions in that special way

Let's lynch.

While this is true, didn't I do points 1 and 3? I don't follow how they make TDL scummy and not me.

I only think that TDL is unlikely to be Jester because of Mikecall/ SP. Which posts signal that he's NOT Jester? Not being scared of Investigatives doesn't count.

Most of your reply was focused on me, and now you say that it's pointless to push me because I'm the Jester, so it's fair to say that your largest contribution by far was a big fluff.

Then you suddenly say that TDL is scum (conveniently enough, given that Calix will have a lot of weight when deciding if you hang today, and TDL seems to be the other likely candidate), yet never addressed a single one of his posts before saying that you are sure that he is scum.
And let's not forget the fact that you have Funce listed as scummier than TDL. lol

1.- Secondpassing says s/he's sure that TDL is scum.
2.- Finds the reasons for said accusation AFTER. (post hoc)
3.- Calix had made it pretty clear that she thinks TDL to be scum.
4.- Calix had also suggested that investigatives check Secondpassing tonight.
5.- Secondpassing has been mentioned as a likely scum candidate by at least half of the players.

I'm gonna call it right here: Secondpassing is Mafia, trying to buddy Calix.

Quoting for posterity. I'll have to reread with these points in mind.

Yes, I believe I missed that in the first time reading through. But none of his other posts seem to indicate he is jester.

That's not how it works. Scum are perfectly capable of looking like town. It's the slips they make that reveal their true intentions. They're called scum SLIPS for a reason.

Call me inflexible, but I have a hard time switching my read on Mikecall. The point of the question was wondering if the jester would end the game not make him win. And why should he care about the game if he already wins and dies?

Uh what? That last question makes no sense to me.

I've got Funce listed as scummier than TDL, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to see more out of him and lynch TheDarkestLight today. I think Funce will present himself in one way or the other very soon.

The way this is worded rubs me the wrong way. Just seems very casual, like he's able to change his reads at the drop of a hat.

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 02:38 AM

Quote-wall 2.0

First things first, TDL and Mikecall's defensiveness levels are more toxic than Chernobyl.

I'm back, and by reading through it, loads of people are contradicting that specific post on the jester win com, yes, I only said that specific question because I wanted to make sure, with the post with the 4v0v1 post, that jester would indeed lose us the game. (I wanted to just make sure before ending that part of the discussion).

But by the end of it, its your choice whether or not that strong case you built up would really strongly think that I am jester, but all I am saying is, I aint even jester at all, or neither mafia.

He just wanted to make sure that the explicit win conditions were what they claimed to be. kek

Really now, so you think I am mafia, good job -_-, now I will be said to be a jester also as well.

But enough of the shitposting from myself,
If you are so hesitiate to thinking I am mafia, then why would you not vote me then? do you still fear that I am still jester?
Or is it do you still fear that the misslynch, like people have said before, would put us into lylo, from what I said from the scenarios that I have put up.

"Hey guys I'm so Mafia, why won't you vote me?"

Do I hear sarcasm, or do I hear you conviently trying to discredit me for my type of play, oh what will go wrong.

Please say more, its what I love hearing.

Also second, for the question I saw earlier, I thought my posts would of shown my inexperienced nature, which of course is quite inexperienced, aint even going to deny that, but I will state it in post game.

Join date: May twenty fucking fourteen

Calix found reasoning for why I'm scummy only after I accused her. Same scenario. Her play style does not give indicators of a Jester

[evidence needed]

and I don't see why everyone is seemingly going nuts over setting her as town. Because "When she's scum she goes after individuals"??? Coming from the guy who hates meta that's sad. Her playstyle gives no indicators of Jester and both accusations on me are from people who accuse me after they shoot some random vote in the dark and are like "Oh hey, gotta make myself seem smart by coming up with a fake read" and "Oh, I gotta discredit this guy by calling him scum."

"Everyone who accuses me is scummy."

Fucking hell, these reads.

Yes, because clearly the Mafia is incapable of scum hunting. You realize they have nothing to worry about since they have no partners?

I went at her because she made scummy moves, not personal reasons, and I already made a case, so you should probably reread it a few times since it apparently went over your head.

I laughed at the statement that there is nothing personal about the bitchfest we had. IT'S TOTALLY OBJECTIVE GUISE

Where is the case on me? All I got was "Calix makes misreps" and "she called me useless one time"

Normally the logic of "They're not scumhunting" is a weak phrase typically held up by noobish towns, very rarely scum. It gives no indicator of alignment. Now then, who they are scumhunting is different as that could mean connections depending on who they scumhunt, and how they scumhunting certain people, but since there is only one Mafia in this game those connections won't exist.

And don't you think the Mafia would want to Jester hunt? I mean, they only need to make sure that they don't get lynched, just like us.

I'm...still not seeing a case here. All TDL is doing is focusing on the POSSIBILITY of me being scum and not the probability. He refuses to read my posts from a town's perspective and blithely dismisses the chance of me being a Jester with NO evidence to back up his claims.

The tunneling is real.

Calix is continuing to maintain a open outlook toward all players instead of tunneling a few to find faults with them.
She literally talked to every player in this game and came out all the better for it. Just realized I said exactly what Sen said.

Self-awareness of regurgitated points, yet decides to post it anyway.

I have SP in my Jester list.

Why?

Anyone can scumhunt. Mafia is won one of two ways, scumhunting or math, and more often than not it is won by the latter. You will see Mafia coming up with scumreads and whatnot, but very rarely will you find them making solutions via the setup itself unless there is some flaw or hidden variable that only they know. But that isn't the case in this setup since we know every role and all of their abilities.

What is the point of this? Why add this in your argument? "You won't see mafia use the setup in normal games but nobody will use the setup this game because everything is known."

No no no... what I mean was, how you say Calix is town because she is scumhunting. Scum can scumhunt, especially when neutrals are around.

Still no case, save for a 'she's not town because scum can hunt for scum as well'. TDL has not made a case, he's just brushed aside the scum-hunting I've done because 'mafia can do it too'.

I feel like I've been snagged on Sen's reasoning and now I can't get out.
My reads have not changed.
I still think SP and Mikecall are the scum, and if they're not then its Sen.
All I know, is that its not TDL.

Oh my fucking GOD, you had piles of posts to sift through. HOW are your reads unaffected?

I've been flitting through, haven't been able to post. I just read up a lot because if I get too far behind, I'll skip things, and miss interesting developments.
It only takes a single sentence for me to flip on someone.
It might be(still stuck in Sen) confirmation bias. But Mikecall's arguments are very damning for me.

I also do not know if my read on you, secondpassing, is confirmation bias either. I can not get out of my head that you are kind of floating and not really doing much.
I see some logic. But I'm still stuck in Sen's reasoning.

Again, My reads have not changed.

I also find it incredibly interesting, how I am your highest scum-read. But I don't see any super-hard pushing.
I hear your "Lets hear your thoughts on the situation" But my mind is already made up.
I could argue how TDL is town, which I think is the only other train today.

Claims that a single sentence is enough for their read to flip, yet claims their reads have not changed. MFW

Claims TDL is so town guise, but does not present a case on TDL's behalf.

Claims their mind is 'already made up' which is disgusting when they claim that their reads have NOT changed since the last time they logged on :rolleyes:

Funce also borrows from everyone else's arguments, doesn't push anyone, doesn't add anything new to the discussion, and yes I am aware that this is mostly NULL because it's fucking Funce the fuckass but it's so annoying to deal with, Jesus Christ. At least pretend that you have a single original thought in your head.

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 03:18 AM

I just want to note that Funce was here reading and didn't feel it fit to comment. Bloody Hell.

Anyway I decided to reread. I still think he is :scum: even in retrospect, given how he has done nothing except for tunnel me. Even before he got into the death match with me, most of his posts just talked about peoples' reluctance to discuss strategies. (meanwhile discussing no strategy himself...)

Following this, he loses the initiative he had; he has to be prodded to post anything that isn't related to tearing me down.

Do you have anything else to add outside of the following:

A) Yay, town cred!

B) Calix has a good read on Sen and I agree with it.

C) We should focus on the Jester even though lynching the Mafia is an infinitely better move.

D) Also I won't actually give any strategies despite whining about their utility and just expect people to feed me ideas.

Woo, keep discrediting. What I see here is a scum seeing someone being townread and wanting to tunnel them.

Calix

Your attempts to discredit are not pro-town.

And to make sure your points aren't unpoked, as that would just put me in a bad light...

>Exaggerates my 'discredits'. I had only made one mildly critical post (calling his contributions useless, as my post shows) but he claims that I 'keep' discrediting him
>Massive overreaction to someone prodding him to make a better post
>Claims the townreads he has are threatening enough that anyone who questions him is scum
>Claims I'm 'not pro-town' after voting me :rolleyes:

You did neither, you simply attempted to discredit me as useless since I was town read by a few people and you obviously felt threatened by that since you're Mafia

>Disproportionate level of confidence in his read compared to the knowledge that he should have as town
>Claims his town reads (aka, external factors) and not his posts make him a threat

Of course scum like you just want to make sure to mislynch today and ensure there are no strong town reads going into tomorrow, save yourself.

And if you're not Mafia, your play is just bad and you need to improve, unless you're jester, in which case... good job, you made yourself seem Mafia as fuck.

>Overly confident in his read of me as scum. As said, this is because I asked him to post something that wasn't useless, which is standard procedure for me
>This is his ONLY post where he considers that I am the Jester. He later claims that my behaviour 'makes no sense' as the Jester. Why? No idea, he never explains

Reads, it's easy, The Jester is between Sen, Funce and SP while you are the Mafia.

>He has to be prodded to make a single sentence unrelated to me that says "4/6 players could be scum". No shit.
>This implies that he town-reads Mikecall, for reasons that he never explains.

quite frankly, the fact people aren't calling me out is all that needs to be said.

"My play is town because other people say it is town, not because I can back it up with anything I have done."

yeah, now I'm discrediting you, but there is a big difference.

I actually scum read you. You're discrediting me just to discredit me, I'm discrediting you because you are scum.

This is why your play is bad, you can talk the talk easily, but you can't read for shit.

>Admits that he's rolling in the scum with those self-conscious discredits, yet justifies it as 'you're scum so you can be discredited'

And ohhh, does the Queen of discrediting not like being discredited? Well, at least I gave a valid reason for why I am discrediting you.

I'll happily be investigated, but you're even scummier for directing night actions. I sincerely hope that when people actually show up they see how scummy you are.

Hypocrisy.

"I'm scum-reading you for things that I am doing (and nothing else), but I has reasons so it's okay for me to do it!"

To move away from MattZed-esque imitations, he's acknowledging that his behaviour is unproductive AT THE TIME OF THE ARGUMENT yet justifies it and then uses the same behaviours to scum-read me :|

And leaving now, well, I like how you said earlier that you were going to stop talking because you were lazy, but I guess you were just to intent on defending yourself from one person.

Claims my misreps are scummy yet drastically misinterprets a comment about 'being too lazy to prod you into insulting me' into 'I'm going to stop talking'

Secondly, he's trying to turn real-life obligations into an argument about my 'scum attitude'. I'm including this because it's one of several examples of him tunneling and making everything I say into some secret mafia conspiracy. Another example includes claiming I was out of arguments for posting a gif in response to a post :laugh:

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 04:02 AM

Mikecall, I see you as well. Stop lurking, start posting.

Mikecall

March 20th, 2016, 04:50 AM

Because of that other post I did before?

Or is it because you love my posts being very toxic.

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 04:55 AM

Because of that other post I did before?

Or is it because you love my posts being very toxic.

Well yes, making posts where you acknowledge that lynching the Jester ends the game...before asking an extremely obvious question about wherever lynching the Jester ends the game...looks terrible.

Of all the things you could have commented on and you pick my comparison of your posts to Chernobyl -_-

Your opinions on the happenings of Sen/ TDL/ secondpassing would be appreciated, given that you haven't gotten into the thick of things. Preferably a nice long paragraph stating your reads on everyone. No weather-forecasting reads, please.

Mikecall

March 20th, 2016, 05:41 AM

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 05:49 AM

Reads on people at the moment:
Sen: Taking my slip to heart? from what TDL says, Sen, your approach has been from that single slip that I made, and you think that it would be the end of the world and everything, if you are so fearful that I am, why didnt you try and pressure vote? like, if you are so feared by me, then this just makes it more interesting to see.

"I know you think I'm Jester, so you should vote me. You know, for science pressure."

10/10 elite-tier logic

TDL: I would say Leaning Town, because he doesnt back down from trying to get a case going on Calix. Unless this is his scum tactic from trying to gain town credibility, I am saying that at the moment, he is the strongest town read.

SP: Does a bit of indepth analysis, but I feel like SP is trying to blend into town by doing a bit of scumhunting but not pushing the leads, something that I find suspicious overall.

Firstly, what case? I've shown that his 'case' and vote only started because he overreacted to my post.

Secondly, while I disagree and I don't think that being stubborn = town, at least there is a reason for your town-read of TDL.

What makes your behaviour different from SP? Have you not also failed to push leads?

But anyways, from this, my vote on funce has changed because funce is showing signs of him being funce, but might be very wrong on this fact, so yeah

But I aint going to vote yet on SP since SP is already on (L-2) at the moment.

Meta!

What happened to your No-Lynch stance?

Mikecall

March 20th, 2016, 06:06 AM

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 06:11 AM

Because majority of you consistenly want a lynch, and you will fall back to the same fact over and over again, with my no lynch stance.

Also manipulating the reasoning for my first point, well done there Calix -_-.

Your petulant tone is amusing.

Yes, I am impersonating the Great MattZed with my quoted misreps. However, that was some pretty blatant vote-begging there. Why would he need to pressure vote you? Why would he vote for the person he thinks is Jester? Answer me that.

Mikecall

March 20th, 2016, 06:24 AM

Your petulant tone is amusing.

Yes, I am impersonating the Great MattZed with my quoted misreps. However, that was some pretty blatant vote-begging there. Why would he need to pressure vote you? Why would he vote for the person he thinks is Jester? Answer me that.

So you think I am trying to beg for votes, in such way, I am pointing out the facts about why would you would want to fear about it, I mean, there is nothing that could happen with pressure voting, but you keep thinking that I want to be lynched.

No, I aint even considering wanting you to vote me, if you believe I am the biggest threat for being the "Jester" so you claim, keep thinking that. But I am just stating, pressure voting is something that has to be kept in mind, why do you think I am not sheeping a vote on someone who potentially have the chance of someone hammering for the very wrong reasons.

And why would I need to be pressured, I aint even going to go into detail for that, you guys claim I am Jester, when I am not, you think I am trying to want to die, but I aint, its your choices at the end of the day, even if it does happen that I die tonight, you would know I wasnt jester, then you will probably think about my bad play.

But enough of this shennagins from my second post, all I am saying for both of your questions is, its what they think is right, if they want to pressure vote me, then I aint bothered, but I am only stating keeping that in mind.

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 06:34 AM

So you think I am trying to beg for votes, in such way, I am pointing out the facts about why would you would want to fear about it, I mean, there is nothing that could happen with pressure voting, but you keep thinking that I want to be lynched.

No, I aint even considering wanting you to vote me, if you believe I am the biggest threat for being the "Jester" so you claim, keep thinking that. But I am just stating, pressure voting is something that has to be kept in mind, why do you think I am not sheeping a vote on someone who potentially have the chance of someone hammering for the very wrong reasons.

And why would I need to be pressured, I aint even going to go into detail for that, you guys claim I am Jester, when I am not, you think I am trying to want to die, but I aint, its your choices at the end of the day, even if it does happen that I die tonight, you would know I wasnt jester, then you will probably think about my bad play.

But enough of this shennagins from my second post, all I am saying for both of your questions is, its what they think is right, if they want to pressure vote me, then I aint bothered, but I am only stating keeping that in mind.

Again, why would you, the person being voted, need the pressure votes? Why would you bait like that and split votes when we are approaching night time?

Yes, I do believe that your contradictions in knowledge about the Jester's win conditions are damning. All it means is that I am not going to vote you. If you are actually town who decided to ask about something so obvious that even the Host sassed you, then congrats, you are NEVER getting mislynched. Now go use that power to help town.

Everyone needs to be pressured. It's a small game, we need as much information on everyone as we can get.

'Sheeping' - Implies that you don't truly think SP is a worthy train, otherwise you wouldn't have used such a weak word. Who are your stronger suspects and why are you not casing them?

RLVG

March 20th, 2016, 07:04 AM

A tiny bit less than three hours remaining.

TheDarkestLight

March 20th, 2016, 09:00 AM

I just want to note that Funce was here reading and didn't feel it fit to comment. Bloody Hell.

Anyway I decided to reread. I still think he is :scum: even in retrospect, given how he has done nothing except for tunnel me. Even before he got into the death match with me, most of his posts just talked about peoples' reluctance to discuss strategies. (meanwhile discussing no strategy himself...)

Following this, he loses the initiative he had; he has to be prodded to post anything that isn't related to tearing me down.

>Exaggerates my 'discredits'. I had only made one mildly critical post (calling his contributions useless, as my post shows) but he claims that I 'keep' discrediting him
>Massive overreaction to someone prodding him to make a better post
>Claims the townreads he has are threatening enough that anyone who questions him is scum
>Claims I'm 'not pro-town' after voting me :rolleyes:

>Disproportionate level of confidence in his read compared to the knowledge that he should have as town
>Claims his town reads (aka, external factors) and not his posts make him a threat

>Overly confident in his read of me as scum. As said, this is because I asked him to post something that wasn't useless, which is standard procedure for me
>This is his ONLY post where he considers that I am the Jester. He later claims that my behaviour 'makes no sense' as the Jester. Why? No idea, he never explains

>He has to be prodded to make a single sentence unrelated to me that says "4/6 players could be scum". No shit.
>This implies that he town-reads Mikecall, for reasons that he never explains.

"My play is town because other people say it is town, not because I can back it up with anything I have done."

>Admits that he's rolling in the scum with those self-conscious discredits, yet justifies it as 'you're scum so you can be discredited'

Hypocrisy.

"I'm scum-reading you for things that I am doing (and nothing else), but I has reasons so it's okay for me to do it!"

To move away from MattZed-esque imitations, he's acknowledging that his behaviour is unproductive AT THE TIME OF THE ARGUMENT yet justifies it and then uses the same behaviours to scum-read me :|

Claims my misreps are scummy yet drastically misinterprets a comment about 'being too lazy to prod you into insulting me' into 'I'm going to stop talking'

Secondly, he's trying to turn real-life obligations into an argument about my 'scum attitude'. I'm including this because it's one of several examples of him tunneling and making everything I say into some secret mafia conspiracy. Another example includes claiming I was out of arguments for posting a gif in response to a post :laugh:

Of course I'm still going at you. There is a single Mafia in this game and I'm reading you as it, what more is there to discuss? There's no point in Jester hunting when you have the Mafia pinned, but I guess this town just won't see it huh?

So, let's sum up every argument you've had.

Overconfident: Great way to get around my accusations without actually addressing them. You've been weaving your way around my accusations, why? Because you don't know how to address them? That's scummy reasoning. Please give an actual counterargument.

Hypocrisy: It takes one extra variable to completely change the meaning of things, and each and every time I pointed out those differences when I did them. But of course you don't seem to care and attribute it to what you do instantly. That's a grand misrepresentation of my actions.

Jester: It's highly unlikely that a Jester would go around discrediting everyone. Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would. People understand that that is what they could do and would spot it. That is why I don't think you're Jester.

Night Direction: I've stated it before, an investigation on you isn't necessary, but you seem to think one on me is. I like how you trying to direct both investigative roles isn't scummy, yet me simply giving a suggestion for one is. You were flat out going around ordering them, not a particularly town move on your part.

So, did I miss anything?

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 09:23 AM

Allow me to paraphrase what TDL deemed valuable enough to spew onto the thread.

Of course I'm still going at you. There is a single Mafia in this game and I'm reading you as it, what more is there to discuss? There's no point in Jester hunting when you have the Mafia pinned, but I guess this town just won't see it huh?

Tunneling. A complete refusal to consider alternatives.

So, let's sum up every argument you've had.

Overconfident: Great way to get around my accusations without actually addressing them. You've been weaving your way around my accusations, why? Because you don't know how to address them? That's scummy reasoning. Please give an actual counterargument.

Ironically, this is projection. He claims that I am the person skirting around his accusations, meanwhile skirting around the accusations I made against him. Instead of responding point-by-point to the post I made on him, he makes an entirely new post so that he doesn't have to answer for his actual posts.

What accusations do you even have? If they're the points below, then that does not constitute a strong enough case to be as sure as you are that I am Mafia.

Accusations of 'not addressing' the 'accusations' - of which he doesn't actually say what they are. What exactly is your argument? "I'm butthurt at you for calling me out on a useless post, let's turn that into a scum-read."

Present a case and I'll consider it. Otherwise GTFO

Hypocrisy: It takes one extra variable to completely change the meaning of things, and each and every time I pointed out those differences when I did them. But of course you don't seem to care and attribute it to what you do instantly. That's a grand misrepresentation of my actions.

I am not entirely sure what his point even is here, aside from being defensive. There are no differences. Directing TPRs, for example, is directing TPRs. Simple as that.

Somehow I doubt he will explain so I will write it off as 'sore loser' unless he deems it worthy enough to explain.

Jester: It's highly unlikely that a Jester would go around discrediting everyone. Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would. People understand that that is what they could do and would spot it. That is why I don't think you're Jester.

You claim that I may offer a rebuttal of "Jester wants to piss people off" - implying that I hadn't (which is true) - before claiming that I...already made that argument? What?

You put words into my mouth, act like those are my thoughts and then counter them. Why would Mafia want to 'discredit everyone' but not Jester?

I'm sure there's some name for that.

Night Direction: I've stated it before, an investigation on you isn't necessary, but you seem to think one on me is. I like how you trying to direct both investigative roles isn't scummy, yet me simply giving a suggestion for one is. You were flat out going around ordering them, not a particularly town move on your part.

It's not necessary because your reads are so pro that they override night results? lol, what happened to the cautious TDL?

No, I'm calling you scummy because you are scum-reading me for shit that you yourself are doing, then using pedantic details to paint your actions as town.

RLVG

March 20th, 2016, 09:30 AM

30 minutes

TheDarkestLight

March 20th, 2016, 09:43 AM

Allow me to paraphrase what TDL deemed valuable enough to spew onto the thread.

Tunneling. A complete refusal to consider alternatives.

Ironically, this is projection. He claims that I am the person skirting around his accusations, meanwhile skirting around the accusations I made against him. Instead of responding point-by-point to the post I made on him, he makes an entirely new post so that he doesn't have to answer for his actual posts.

What accusations do you even have? If they're the points below, then that does not constitute a strong enough case to be as sure as you are that I am Mafia.

Accusations of 'not addressing' the 'accusations' - of which he doesn't actually say what they are. What exactly is your argument? "I'm butthurt at you for calling me out on a useless post, let's turn that into a scum-read."

Present a case and I'll consider it. Otherwise GTFO

I am not entirely sure what his point even is here, aside from being defensive. There are no differences. Directing TPRs, for example, is directing TPRs. Simple as that.

Somehow I doubt he will explain so I will write it off as 'sore loser' unless he deems it worthy enough to explain.

You claim that I may offer a rebuttal of "Jester wants to piss people off" - implying that I hadn't (which is true) - before claiming that I...already made that argument? What?

You put words into my mouth, act like those are my thoughts and then counter them. Why would Mafia want to 'discredit everyone' but not Jester?

I'm sure there's some name for that.

It's not necessary because your reads are so pro that they override night results? lol, what happened to the cautious TDL?

No, I'm calling you scummy because you are scum-reading me for shit that you yourself are doing, then using pedantic details to paint your actions as town.

I've been considering other possibilities, but signs point to you.

Oh no, I have a different posting style than you, I must be scum.

If you don't know my argument then clearly you haven't been reading.

Your whole argument against me is that I was butthurt, I wasn't. You simply painted yourself out to be scum and I went at it.

I don't need you to consider my case, no matter what I bring up you'll say no because you're the target. Are you stupid?

I did explain, if it went over your head then your not worth the effort. Really you say I don't explain yet... I did.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal, I said that that is a likely "excuse for what you're doing", and I went against it before it could be claimed.

Mafia would to appear as a jester and not be lynched.

Everything is in the details. As I've explained a single detail is enough to change the meaning of something. So, you're calling me scummy for doing what you're doing. So doesn't that mean you're scummy?

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 09:52 AM

I've been considering other possibilities, but signs point to you.

Oh no, I have a different posting style than you, I must be scum.

If you don't know my argument then clearly you haven't been reading.

Your whole argument against me is that I was butthurt, I wasn't. You simply painted yourself out to be scum and I went at it.

I don't need you to consider my case, no matter what I bring up you'll say no because you're the target. Are you stupid?

I did explain, if it went over your head then your not worth the effort. Really you say I don't explain yet... I did.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal, I said that that is a likely "excuse for what you're doing", and I went against it before it could be claimed.

Mafia would to appear as a jester and not be lynched.

Everything is in the details. As I've explained a single detail is enough to change the meaning of something. So, you're calling me scummy for doing what you're doing. So doesn't that mean you're scummy?

You say this, but offer no evidence to show that you've taken anyone else into consideration. At this point, you're just using your 'GG, Calix is scum' angle to avoid talking in-depth about anyone or anything else. What have you actually done outside of repeating 'Calix is scum, nothing else has to be said', really? If I hadn't prodded you, you would have barely posted. Have you even tried to push anyone else? I think not.

Painfully obvious misrep from the guy claiming that my misreps are scummy even though we are doing it for the same reason.

If I, the person being accused, barely even knows what I am being accused of, then how am I supposed to defend myself adequately? I've set out my issues with you clearly. You just drag your feet and do the "read the chat" schtick instead of being clear and resolving the matter logically.

"I'm not worth the effort." - The guy who has tunneled me at the expense of everything else.

Oh sure, you might go "But that lets them anger people into voting them," Well, the fact you just made that argument is why it's highly unlikely that they would.

I never claimed you offered said rebuttal

Er no, you clearly said that I made that argument. I did not and everyone can attest to it, scrub.

More projection. I've been arguing that you are scum for accusing me of doing things which you yourself are doing. Now you are throwing this argument back at me. Jesus Christ it is pathetic that people are actually town-reading someone this hypocritical.

RLVG

March 20th, 2016, 10:00 AM

Night 1

http://i.imgur.com/4bIScqj.gif

Players :

Calix
Funce
Mikecall
Sen
Secondpassing
TheDarkestLight

{ Night ends in 48 hours, or if 24 hours are skipped. }

(http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=18:00+22nd+march+2016+Norway)
4

Lynch the Host to skip 24 hours of the day. Several hours may be missed out on if the host isn't around.
Alternatively you may do a fake vote (Although host won't see it immediately) : -Vote Skip

RLVG

March 20th, 2016, 10:09 AM

It's safe to chat because all-nighter or something.

Sen

March 20th, 2016, 10:20 AM

Tonight is forever. Tell me now you don't disagree. ♫

Sen

March 20th, 2016, 10:34 AM

I am gender fluid.
That means sometimes I'm a boy, and I'll protect Calix with my life.
But sometimes I'm a girl, and I'll check Secondpassing to make sure she has a penis.
Or maybe I'm both and I'll spend the night porking myself!

Mikecall

March 20th, 2016, 10:35 AM

Very nice music there.

Sen

March 20th, 2016, 10:40 AM

Very nice music there.
Let's dance, Mike. <3

Calix

March 20th, 2016, 10:41 AM

TheDarkestLight

March 20th, 2016, 10:46 AM

You say this, but offer no evidence to show that you've taken anyone else into consideration. At this point, you're just using your 'GG, Calix is scum' angle to avoid talking in-depth about anyone or anything else. What have you actually done outside of repeating 'Calix is scum, nothing else has to be said', really? If I hadn't prodded you, you would have barely posted. Have you even tried to push anyone else? I think not.

Painfully obvious misrep from the guy claiming that my misreps are scummy even though we are doing it for the same reason.

If I, the person being accused, barely even knows what I am being accused of, then how am I supposed to defend myself adequately? I've set out my issues with you clearly. You just drag your feet and do the "read the chat" schtick instead of being clear and resolving the matter logically.

"I'm not worth the effort." - The guy who has tunneled me at the expense of everything else.

Er no, you clearly said that I made that argument. I did not and everyone can attest to it, scrub.

More projection. I've been arguing that you are scum for accusing me of doing things which you yourself are doing. Now you are throwing this argument back at me. Jesus Christ it is pathetic that people are actually town-reading someone this hypocritical.

You know, your first point would be a legitimate argument for why I'm scum... if there was more than one this game. That suggests I'm pushing attention or intentionally avoiding talking about someone, but... there's one scum. So in a game like this, a scum would be open to talking about literally anyone, so tunneling isn't really a good argument for scum. Next OMGUS argument please?

The same reason now, but you initially did it thinking I was town, now you're doing it after you make a very convenient OMGUS scum read out of nowhere.

If you, the person being accused barely knows what you're being accused of, then you should read again maybe?

Not worth the effort of going back through posts when you should have already read it.

You misinterpret what I said. It was a hypothetical scenario in case someone brought up that argument, trying to describe why the Jester wouldn't do something like that, and that is because it's someone players with half a brain would come up with. Look at the first words of the sentence, "oh sure, you might".

Good God it's pathetic people are town reading you.