S-FM 180 Simple Arsonist

[Toadette]

Link to setup:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/34665-S-FM-Simple-Arsonist

Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Rolecards:

Arsonist
Choose one of two actions at night:
- Douse a player in gasoline. You cannot douse yourself.
- Ignite all doused players, killing them
*You get to act night 0

Douse Checker
Check a player at night to see if they are doused

Citizen
No special action

Win Conditions:
Arsonist: Eliminate the town.
Town: Lynch the Arsonist

Tie breakers:
Arsonist > Town

Order of Operations:
Arsonist
Douse checker

Mechanics:
24 hour days, 24 hour nights
Game starts night 0 with only arsonist taking action
Only funny last wills allowed. No last will with strategy or content will be posted.
Suicide is not allowed.

Feedback:
No feedback given for being doused

Rules:
Do not quote pms from the host
Images/videos/colored chat allowed, but don't be excessive about it.
No talking about the game outside of the game.
No excessive personal attacks. Violators will be warned through PM, and replaced or killed if they continue. If you feel like someone has violated this rule, do not discuss it on the thread but rather PM me and I will decide the course of action to take.
I also will NOT tolerate racist or sexist remarks. You will be modkilled or replaced. There will be no warning.
No anonymous accounts.
No post requirement but I will replace players at any time if needed.
NO password protected posts.
Ask questions in green or they will be ignored. This is for clarification questions only. I will ignore questions with a clear answer or if I don't feel I need to answer them.

Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Players:
Helz
Frog
Calix
TheDarkestLight
Secret Sign aka RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Day 1 will start in 48 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20160223T12&p0=224&msg=Day+1+Start&font=slab&csz=1)

[Toadette]

Day 1



:firebringer:
4

Day 1 Ends in 24 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/party?iso=20160224T12&p0=224&msg=Day+1+End&font=sanserif&csz=1)

[Frog]

Hi all!

BEFORE we start discussing strategy, as in please don't discuss strategy yet:

Please decide whether or not we should discuss strategy.

I am voting No. We should NOT discuss strategy.

[Frog]

I actually prepared a first post that doesn't break any of the rules:

To begin:

I refuse to engage in any strategy discussion and HIGHLY discourage you all from doing so.

The more strategy that is discussed, the more the Arsonist can WIFOM off of knowledge of rationality and possibly even common knowledge.

To explain a few concepts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ3kFydI_xQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2129
The Game played in the video above follows as:
-Without showing your neighbors, choose a number between 1 and 100. The average number in the class will be calculated. The winner(s) will be the person who is closest to 2/3 of the average number.-

A game requires rules, payoffs, and players.
When analyzing the payoffs, you develop strategies for the game.
Some strategies are strictly dominated, most will be weakly dominanted, iterative deletion will yield the 'best' strategy, but it doesn't necessarily account for other players actions.
Depending on other players actions, the 'ideal' strategy may not be actually be ideal.
This is ESPECIALLY TRUE when one player knows or can deduce another competing player's strategy.
This is the foundation for Game Theory.

Now to explain why I refuse to discuss strategy AT ALL and why I will be voting anyone actively discussing strategy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ3kFydI_xQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3245

When we're being rational in developing strategies, then we need to have knowledge of rationality. (KR)
Then we need to know that people have knowledge of rationality. (KKR)
Then we need to know that people know that people have knowledge of rationality. (KKR)
etc.
The infinite sequence of "I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know, etc." is called common knowledge.
This ONLY exists in scenarios where all but one strategy is strictly dominated.
This game is not one of those games.
Instead we'll get to many levels of "I know that you know etc." - this is what we call WIFOM.

SO - IF we are to develop strategies, the Arsonist will be able to play off our strategies using WIFOM to his benefit.

Concluding remarks:
THE ONLY THING, other than 100% troll posts and completely off topic links that I want to see is this from EVERYONE, and I WILL NOT explain why or to what effect (I will let you analyze this ON YOUR OWN PRIVATELY):
"Hello I am the douse checker and I have checked player X LAST NIGHT. They are (not) doused." This should only begin starting day 2, since if I read the setup correctly, only arsonist acts N0, not the douse checker.
^ NOTE, the majority of people should say NOT doused to ENSURE that the real douse checker remains HIDDEN.

[NoctiZ]

I don't even know what kind of strategy you'd want to be discussing. This game is pretty straight forward.

[Sen]

Single scum. No flip analysis. No day 1 strategy.

Secret Sign

Welcome.

[Sen]

Images/videos/colored chat allowed, but don't be excessive about it.
♥ (:

[Calix]

Single scum. No flip analysis. No day 1 strategy.

Secret Sign

Welcome.

I've never been in a setup with only one scum to start off with. Wonder how that'll affect the gameplay. You can't check for bussing/ buddying/ put a load of stock into VCA. I do have an idea about how the last pointer will come into play. I just want to put that out there for future reference, but I'll keep it under wraps if we're not discussing strategy today.

The question is, what do we start talking about? I imagine this will be a quiet, mild game (which is fine; I'd rather not shitpost)

[Helz]

I actually prepared a first post that doesn't break any of the rules:

To begin:

I refuse to engage in any strategy discussion and HIGHLY discourage you all from doing so.

The more strategy that is discussed, the more the Arsonist can WIFOM off of knowledge of rationality and possibly even common knowledge.

To explain a few concepts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ3kFydI_xQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2129
The Game played in the video above follows as:
-Without showing your neighbors, choose a number between 1 and 100. The average number in the class will be calculated. The winner(s) will be the person who is closest to 2/3 of the average number.-

A game requires rules, payoffs, and players.
When analyzing the payoffs, you develop strategies for the game.
Some strategies are strictly dominated, most will be weakly dominanted, iterative deletion will yield the 'best' strategy, but it doesn't necessarily account for other players actions.
Depending on other players actions, the 'ideal' strategy may not be actually be ideal.
This is ESPECIALLY TRUE when one player knows or can deduce another competing player's strategy.
This is the foundation for Game Theory.

Now to explain why I refuse to discuss strategy AT ALL and why I will be voting anyone actively discussing strategy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ3kFydI_xQ&feature=youtu.be&t=3245

When we're being rational in developing strategies, then we need to have knowledge of rationality. (KR)
Then we need to know that people have knowledge of rationality. (KKR)
Then we need to know that people know that people have knowledge of rationality. (KKR)
etc.
The infinite sequence of "I know that you know that I know that you know that I know that you know, etc." is called common knowledge.
This ONLY exists in scenarios where all but one strategy is strictly dominated.
This game is not one of those games.
Instead we'll get to many levels of "I know that you know etc." - this is what we call WIFOM.

SO - IF we are to develop strategies, the Arsonist will be able to play off our strategies using WIFOM to his benefit.

Concluding remarks:
THE ONLY THING, other than 100% troll posts and completely off topic links that I want to see is this from EVERYONE, and I WILL NOT explain why or to what effect (I will let you analyze this ON YOUR OWN PRIVATELY):
"Hello I am the douse checker and I have checked player X LAST NIGHT. They are (not) doused." This should only begin starting day 2, since if I read the setup correctly, only arsonist acts N0, not the douse checker.
^ NOTE, the majority of people should say NOT doused to ENSURE that the real douse checker remains HIDDEN.

I would like to discuss strategy. I feel that this reasoning you are pushing is very valid but does not apply to this specific game. The arson has next to nothing to counter in his night actions so he has no real need to counter our strategy. And for that matter the town has no tools to build a strategy on. I like the idea of building upon previous reasoning. As always I want to see as much interaction from as many people as possible.

[RLVG]

UP IN THE CORNER,

THE SECRET SIGN,

THE ONE AND ONLY,

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLVG!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/B16hI3gdM9hO8/giphy.gif

[Sen]

MattZed's Vampire game had a single scum too, although that one had a way for townies to night kill the scum.
In this case, the only mechanic other than discussion is that of the Checker, who -if they live enough- can confirm a bunch of townies based on dousing status. Of course, if they don't check the right targets or get killed before revealing, they're effectivelly another Vanilla.

[NoctiZ]

UP IN THE CORNER,

THE SECRET SIGN,

THE ONE AND ONLY,

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRLVG!!!

https://media.giphy.com/media/B16hI3gdM9hO8/giphy.gif

Aw man, so disappointing. :/

jk

But tbh I agree witz Helz.

[RLVG]

MattZed's Vampire game had a single scum too, although that one had a way for townies to night kill the scum.

If anything, it was a dual-edged blade scenario. Suicide is allowed, if suicide and targeted by scum then the scum dies.

[RLVG]

I'm sexy as hell. You want to douse me.
HypnoRLVG demands douse.

[RLVG]

Honestly I think this is the strategy of all possible arsonists in this game :

1. Douse.
2. Burn.
3. Rinse repeat. ???
4. Profit.

This prevents strategy other than using WIFOM to narrow down 1 guy that may or may not be doused, confirming them for a single day before being burned.

[RLVG]

With that said, let the WIFOM begin.

Sen

[Calix]

MattZed's Vampire game had a single scum too, although that one had a way for townies to night kill the scum.
In this case, the only mechanic other than discussion is that of the Checker, who -if they live enough- can confirm a bunch of townies based on dousing status. Of course, if they don't check the right targets or get killed before revealing, they're effectivelly another Vanilla.

Correct me if I'm wrong as I am terrible with math, but Douse Checker will have a 2/7 chance of finding a doused player tonight, right? That's not terrible, but I don't think those odds are good enough that we should rely on/ talk about the Checker too much. We might become too reliant on night actions and neglect typical scum tells that way and I'd rather not dick around until we can re-enact 'Follow the Cop 63876407.0'

@RLVG, do you think the chances of the Checker finding a lot of the doused players are high then?

[Sen]

Worst case scenario, the Arsonist can win on day 3.
I'm not doused. Why no love?
Just saw the story, btw. 10/10, would read again.

[Calix]

Oh wait, just to double check...

Are lynches mandatory? Is vote-skip an option?

[Toadette]

Oh wait, just to double check...

Are lynches mandatory? Is vote-skip an option?

Lynches are not mandatory. Voing skip would cause the thread to close but I won't update it until the day is officially over.

[RLVG]

@RLVG, do you think the chances of the Checker finding a lot of the doused players are high then?

Nope.

[Sen]

Correct me if I'm wrong as I am terrible with math, but Douse Checker will have a 2/7 chance of finding a doused player tonight, right?
1/3 of the Town will be doused tonight. The Arsonist has 0 chance of being doused. Don't know if self-checking is possible. I think the actual number might be different, but close enough to that 2/7.

[RLVG]

We can always do the Kamikaze Strategy :

No lynch 4 days. If Arsonist burns 4, it's 2v1.

[Calix]

1/3 of the Town will be doused tonight. The Arsonist has 0 chance of being doused. Don't know if self-checking is possible. I think the actual number might be different, but close enough to that 2/7.

Douse checker can pick themselves, if I read the comments to the setup thread correctly.

[Frog]

I don't even know what kind of strategy you'd want to be discussing. This game is pretty straight forward.

There's quite a bit we could talk about. We could get into statistical best strategy for both Town and Arsonist, which would be the most compelling. I'm refusing to even touch that publicly.


I would like to discuss strategy. I feel that this reasoning you are pushing is very valid but does not apply to this specific game. The arson has next to nothing to counter in his night actions so he has no real need to counter our strategy. And for that matter the town has no tools to build a strategy on. I like the idea of building upon previous reasoning. As always I want to see as much interaction from as many people as possible.

No, Arsonist can very much start countering Town's strategy. Not only that, but Town can start speculating on optimal Arsonist strategy in which case Arsonist can use that or play off expected knowledge.

I'm 100% against any strategy discussion.

[Frog]

We can always do the Kamikaze Strategy :

No lynch 4 days. If Arsonist burns 4, it's 2v1.

RLVG

[Calix]

We can always do the Kamikaze Strategy :

No lynch 4 days. If Arsonist burns 4, it's 2v1.

No wonder you were Secret Sign with your insistence on No Lynching for days -_-

I'm keeping my thoughts to my chest over wherever a Day 1 lynch is the optimal strategy for town (for now), but I'll flag it up as a possibility.

In the meantime, I think we should lynch the new players :>

Helz

[Helz]

Worst case scenario, the Arsonist can win on day 3.
I'm not doused. Why no love?
Just saw the story, btw. 10/10, would read again.

The only way you could possibly know that you are not doused right now is if you are the arson.
Sen

I will also say I have the intention of pushing for lynches every single day.

[Sen]

We can always do the Kamikaze Strategy :

No lynch 4 days. If Arsonist burns 4, it's 2v1.
The Arsonist would be able to burn 5 by n4, automatically winning.
If we no-lynch 3 days, we would need to lynch the Arsonist on d4 or we'd lose.

There's no reason for not lynching, since there's no way for us to gain an advantage during the night.

[Sen]

The only way you could possibly know that you are not doused right now is if you are the arson.
Sen
Yeah, you got me. gg. MVP here.

[RLVG]

Just saying, being controversial provokes discussion.

Arsonist will definitively burn 1 by 1 instead of taking a gamble of dousing everyone until the end.

[Helz]

No, Arsonist can very much start countering Town's strategy. Not only that, but Town can start speculating on optimal Arsonist strategy in which case Arsonist can use that or play off expected knowledge.

I'm 100% against any strategy discussion.

The game is pretty simple. The only important variations are Lynch/No lynch for the town and Douse/Burn for arson. The douse checker is a moot point simply because we would have to assume that their actions are rational to build any kind of theory and coordinate a strategy. This is just simply not true because for them to be rational they would have to assume the arson is rational. The arson can not be assumed to follow a rational pattern of any kind.

So with that in mind the lynch is the only real weapon we have to win so lynch/no lynch is not really a question I would expect anyone to debate. This leaves literally the only thing we can work with is the Douse/Burn. Seeing as that as previously stated we can not assume the arson will follow a rational plan we are once again left with nothing.

Unless your just referring to crunching the numbers which I agree. We should not do.

[NoctiZ]

Just saying, being controversial provokes discussion.

Arsonist will definitively burn 1 by 1 instead of taking a gamble of dousing everyone until the end.

I would talk about this but it'd go against Frog's rule of no strategy talks which I suddenly find very relatable.

[Calix]

Just saying, being controversial provokes discussion.

Arsonist will definitively burn 1 by 1 instead of taking a gamble of dousing everyone until the end.

How do you know the Arsonist won't take a gamble? Why is that a 100% guarantee with you? (judging by 'definitively') Won't the douses depend on strategy/ playstyle?

[Helz]

I would talk about this but it'd go against Frog's rule of no strategy talks which I suddenly find very relatable.

What makes you agree with his position? If you do not want to talk strategy then how do you believe we should focus our efforts?

[RLVG]

How do you know the Arsonist won't take a gamble? Why is that a 100% guarantee with you? (judging by 'definitively') Won't the douses depend on strategy/ playstyle?

Because why not. There's no definitive player style of either, getting the Checker early allows a more freeform dousing.

[Sen]

With no night actions, a single scum, and people not wanting to talk strategy, it's obvious that we should focus our efforts and talk about cats. :calix:

[RLVG]

With no night actions, a single scum, and people not wanting to talk strategy, it's obvious that we should focus our efforts and talk about cats. :calix:

http://i.imgur.com/Kz70nHA.gif

[NoctiZ]

What makes you agree with his position? If you do not want to talk strategy then how do you believe we should focus our efforts?

Talking about what RLVG has started to discuss about will ultimately help the Arsonist therefore making it a bad discussion for us.

[Calix]

What makes you agree with his position? If you do not want to talk strategy then how do you believe we should focus our efforts?

Perhaps everyone's decision over wherever to discuss strategy or not could be telling enough to continue a discussion?

[Frog]

Worst case scenario, the Arsonist can win on day 3.
I'm not doused. Why no love?
Just saw the story, btw. 10/10, would read again.

Sen

GG

[RLVG]

We can hypoclaim being a Checker and hypoclaim who we would target, then afterwards hypoclaim if target was doused or not, for WIFOM.

[Sen]

Sen

GG
Sorry, TLL already called dibs on MVP.

[Helz]

Perhaps everyone's decision over wherever to discuss strategy or not could be telling enough to continue a discussion?

I agree.

And from conversation so far I am currently most inclined to lynch RLVG or Sen.

[NoctiZ]

Tbh I'm not 100% willing to go with Sen for a D1 lynch. The Arsonist would know that they everyone else won't be notified of dousings. I'm not sure if he would make such a slip.

[Sen]

We can hypoclaim being a Checker and hypoclaim who we would target, then afterwards hypoclaim if target was doused or not, for WIFOM.
We can do whatever we want to. Screw the "don't discuss strategy", which incidentally is an strategy by itself.

[NoctiZ]

We can hypoclaim being a Checker and hypoclaim who we would target, then afterwards hypoclaim if target was doused or not, for WIFOM.

Which is what Frog suggested

[Calix]

Friendly reminder that Sen's at L-1

I recommend someone unvoting for now.

[Sen]

Friendly reminder that Sen's at L-1
lol. The lot of plebs.

[RLVG]

Not really much of a discussion going on but I won't deny it from ever existing.

[Sen]

Frog
So he can get salty in two games at the same time.

[Helz]

I should point out that Sen is at L1. Be careful with your votes.

[Calix]

Tbh I'm not 100% willing to go with Sen for a D1 lynch. The Arsonist would know that they everyone else won't be notified of dousings. I'm not sure if he would make such a slip.

I saw it as the usual Day 1 trolling shenanigans by saying something provocative. Not worth a vote imo.

[RLVG]

I should point out that Sen is at L1. Be careful with your votes.

Hm, I think Sen is L-1 but I'm not sure. Can you verify that?

[Helz]

Tiny thoughts so far-

Frog- Came to play with a plan. I like his initial approach and am inclined to say leaning town from meta there. But on the other hand he put Sen to L1 quickly.

Sen- Has voiced multiple things already that easily fit the perspective of the arsonist. We can slap on as much WIFOM as you want with that to say "Is it too stupid to be a slip/Arson would be more careful"

RLVG- The guy is next to impossible to read. We can only win the game by reading players and following through with a lynch so I immediately have a bias to eliminate him. If he is the arsonist I am not confident that I would ever be able to piece it out given my knowledge of the player. I could show how a thing or two he has already said could come from a scum perspective but he always looks scummy as hell as a town player anyways.

[Sen]

To be fair, doing this (lynching at random as soon as the day starts without even talking) wouldn't be the worst strategy. Of course, that would be boring.

And yeah, that was totally a slip. We all know I do that all the time.

[TheDarkestLight]

RLVG

Best to get rid of the hard to read players first.

[RLVG]

RLVG

Best to get rid of the hard to read players first.


RLVG- The guy is next to impossible to read.

http://i.imgur.com/Y0tXTtH.gif

[Calix]

Vote Count 1 - I'm considering this the RVS with some legitimate votes

Frog (1 [L-3]):
Sen
Sen (2 [L-2]):
Frog, Helz
Helz (1 [L-3]):
Calix
RLVG (1 [L-3]):
TheDarkestLight

[Sen]

Best to get rid of the hard to read players first.
I think you're one of the few who understands how utterly futile d1 reads are, let alone page 1 reads. What are you reading?

[TheDarkestLight]

I think you're one of the few who understands how utterly futile d1 reads are, let alone page 1 reads. What are you reading?

Basically this game is just day one over and over again.

[Sen]

Basically this game is just day one over and over again.
Indeed.

[TheDarkestLight]

Basically this game is just day one over and over again.

Which suggests that we need to at least try to work out some form of day one reads from all this as considering the optimal arsonist strategy we're not really going to get anywhere via night actions save maybe a confirmed town for a single day, and even if he is confirmed the next to die is the only one with the night action.

This game is nothing but reading and we need to lynch players that are traditionally hard to read first.

[Helz]

I completely disagree. D1 reads are extremely possible. If this were not the case full citizen games would have matching win ratios with randomized results. They do not.

[Helz]

Which suggests that we need to at least try to work out some form of day one reads from all this as considering the optimal arsonist strategy we're not really going to get anywhere via night actions save maybe a confirmed town for a single day, and even if he is confirmed the next to die is the only one with the night action.

This game is nothing but reading and we need to lynch players that are traditionally hard to read first.

If that is the case why do you want to lynch RLVG as opposed to me? And I do believe that conversation has been productive so far.

[TheDarkestLight]

If that is the case why do you want to lynch RLVG as opposed to me? And I do believe that conversation has been productive so far.

Because I struggle to read RLVG in games.

[Sen]

This game is nothing but reading and we need to lynch players that are traditionally hard to read first.
Isn't that like... everyone?

Plus it's entirelly arbitrary. We might as well lynch whoever we would pick as the Arsonist if we were the host.
Not that I'm against arbitrary actions in this setup, but I don't see why this particular arbitrary strategy would be better than any other.

[RLVG]

Because I struggle to read RLVG in games.

And I struggle to read you.

Capice?

[Sen]

I completely disagree. D1 reads are extremely possible. If this were not the case full citizen games would have matching win ratios with randomized results. They do not.
The key is that said games have a scum pairing. This one doesn't allow for scum interaction analysis based on flips, since a single scum flip here would be gg.

[Calix]

I sense there's a chance that the discussion will be downgraded to a pointless policy debate over wherever day one reads are good. I'm just going to warn against that now. Can we not do that and just approach the day according to the strategy that we, as individuals, think is best instead of having a policy discussion that cannot be town/ scum read? (thus making it NULL and POINTLESS)

I am starting to think that RLVG is going to be the low-hanging fruit of this game due to his usual playstyle, regardless of his role.

[Frog]

Frog
So he can get salty in two games at the same time.

I'm spending more time in the other game. Sorry.

[NoctiZ]

The key is that said games have a scum pairing. This one doesn't allow for scum interaction analysis based on flips, since a single scum flip here would be gg.

True, but these games aren't won by observing scum's interactions, they're won by lynching one scum and then analyzing connections afterwards. We'd only have to do the first step.

[RLVG]

I am starting to think that RLVG is going to be the low-hanging fruit of this game due to his usual playstyle, regardless of his role.

I'm fine with a lynch if all I am is a distraction through the whole game, a limelight and a constant discussion wether to lynch or not, which just breaks regular conversations.

With that said, let's try to pressure some random fuck.

[Sen]

I am starting to think that RLVG is going to be the low-hanging fruit of this game due to his usual playstyle, regardless of his role.
There's no low-hanging fruit here. The setup literally prohibits it.


I'm spending more time in the other game. Sorry.
That's cool. Everyone noticed you placing me at L-1 on page one.

[Helz]

The key is that said games have a scum pairing. This one doesn't allow for scum interaction analysis based on flips, since a single scum flip here would be gg.

I do not think those things are needed to scum hunt.


I sense there's a chance that the discussion will be downgraded to a pointless policy debate over wherever day one reads are good. I'm just going to warn against that now. Can we not do that and just approach the day according to the strategy that we, as individuals, think is best instead of having a policy discussion that cannot be town/ scum read? (thus making it NULL and POINTLESS)

I am starting to think that RLVG is going to be the low-hanging fruit of this game due to his usual playstyle, regardless of his role.

What has caught your eye so far in this game? Any thoughts on any of the players so far?

[Calix]

True, but these games aren't won by observing scum's interactions, they're won by lynching one scum and then analyzing connections afterwards. We'd only have to do the first step.

I disagree with your premise that no connections can be made, ESPECIALLY if Arsonist ignites one player at a time.


I'm fine with a lynch if all I am is a distraction through the whole game, a limelight and a constant discussion wether to lynch or not, which just breaks regular conversations.

With that said, let's try to pressure some random fuck.

If you know you will be a distraction, why do you not change your posting style to avoid being lynched? Not saying this is scummy (actually it's more town-like imo) but I can't see the logic in continuing to use a scummy playstyle.

[RLVG]

If you know you will be a distraction, why do you not change your posting style to avoid being lynched? Not saying this is scummy (actually it's more town-like imo) but I can't see the logic in continuing to use a scummy playstyle.

A leopard can't change the spots of their pelt.

My playstyle is more like how I play as myself, which is a hard thing to adjust.

[NoctiZ]

I disagree with your premise that no connections can be made, ESPECIALLY if Arsonist ignites one player at a time.

I don't understand how this relates.

All I'm saying is that pre-flip associations are hard to form in a game with 2 scums. Once one scum flips it gets easier to find the second scum.

Difference in this game is that there's only one person and to him everyone else is the same. He has no reason to act in a special way towards anybody.

[Frog]

There's no low-hanging fruit here. The setup literally prohibits it.


That's cool. Everyone noticed you placing me at L-1 on page one.

Dude, you basically slipped. It's Gg

[Calix]

I do not think those things are needed to scum hunt.



What has caught your eye so far in this game? Any thoughts on any of the players so far?

Frog's suggestion to not discuss strategy on Day 1 strikes me as a bit odd to have as his very first post, considering that he didn't offer up an alternative topic to discuss.

I don't like how carelessly everyone bandwagoned Sen.

NoctiZ seems to be staying under the radar and agrees with some of what Frog said iirc, so I have my eye on him.

I will read/ reread the chat and offer more comprehensive thoughts tomorrow (hosting the other game + have to go to sleep soon) but I don't think Sen or RLVG are great lynches at the moment. Maybe I am just being overcautious, but I would be really surprised if we had all found the scum just like that.

@NoctiZ, you think there's no difference between players for the Arsonist? You forget his night action.

[Frog]

Ok guys. The real reason I voted Sen is because I'm Mason with Helz. Now that we're outted we can continue from here as 2 confirmed towns.

[Frog]

We can hypoclaim being a Checker and hypoclaim who we would target, then afterwards hypoclaim if target was doused or not, for WIFOM.


Which is what Frog suggested

I didn't suggest the first part, which was hypoclaiming who we're targeting.

I'll suggest against that heavily, as it will quickly reveal vulnerabilities and the real douse checker.

[Sen]

Dude, you basically slipped. It's Gg
http://i.imgur.com/9WvYlBz.png

[Frog]

Friendly reminder that Sen's at L-1

I recommend someone unvoting for now.

Why do you care Calix?

[Frog]

Calix

[Sen]

Why do you care Calix?
She's scum with me. You got us.

[Calix]

Why do you care Calix?

Why wouldn't I care? If someone isn't paying attention to the vote count and decides to bandwagon, we get fucked over. I didn't realise the votes were that high myself until I saw your vote.

[NoctiZ]

Frog's suggestion to not discuss strategy on Day 1 strikes me as a bit odd to have as his very first post, considering that he didn't offer up an alternative topic to discuss.

I don't like how carelessly everyone bandwagoned Sen.

NoctiZ seems to be staying under the radar and agrees with some of what Frog said iirc, so I have my eye on him.

I will read/ reread the chat and offer more comprehensive thoughts tomorrow (hosting the other game + have to go to sleep soon) but I don't think Sen or RLVG are great lynches at the moment. Maybe I am just being overcautious, but I would be really surprised if we had all found the scum just like that.

@NoctiZ, you think there's no difference between players for the Arsonist? You forget his night action.

I'm saying there's no difference to him compared to everyone else. For him everyone of us is the same. He doesn't really have to care about the Douse Checker from a Day POV. I don't even know why you say I "forget his night action". That's why I said that everyone of us town players is the same to him. We were talking about analyses during the day if you forgot.

I didn't suggest the first part, which was hypoclaiming who we're targeting.

I'll suggest against that heavily, as it will quickly reveal vulnerabilities and the real douse checker.

Lol sorry, I didn't see that RLVG said we should claim who we would target because that shit doesn't even make sense to me. Thought it was the same thing you said.

[NoctiZ]

She's scum with me. You got us.

Man, if one of you is town then that really makes pre-flip associations seem pretty bad, eh.

[Calix]

I'm saying there's no difference to him compared to everyone else. For him everyone of us is the same. He doesn't really have to care about the Douse Checker from a Day POV. I don't even know why you say I "forget his night action". That's why I said that everyone of us town players is the same to him. We were talking about analyses during the day if you forgot.

You think Arsonist would be as willing to lynch anyone they know is doused? Does that not count as a difference?

I don't know if that's important a difference enough to manifest in the way Arsonist would talk or vote but it's something to keep in mind.

[NoctiZ]

You think Arsonist would be as willing to lynch anyone they know is doused? Does that not count as a difference?

I don't know if that's important a difference enough to manifest in the way Arsonist would talk or vote but it's something to keep in mind.

Tbh now we're getting into the territory of talking about what an Arsonist should and should not do or rather the best way for him to play which I would shy away from as a topic.

[Helz]

Ok guys. The real reason I voted Sen is because I'm Mason with Helz. Now that we're outted we can continue from here as 2 confirmed towns.

I can confirm. For some reason the host placed our mason chat in a hairy armpit fetish forum. We were just discussing how scum know who is town and they sometimes leverage that information for town cred.

[RLVG]

You think Arsonist would be as willing to lynch anyone they know is doused?

With the chance of the Checker flailing, yes.

[Frog]

Why wouldn't I care? If someone isn't paying attention to the vote count and decides to bandwagon, we get fucked over. I didn't realise the votes were that high myself until I saw your vote.

Why does it matter to you?

[Frog]

I can confirm. For some reason the host placed our mason chat in a hairy armpit fetish forum. We were just discussing how scum know who is town and they sometimes leverage that information for town cred.

K. I'm purging Calix tonight.

[Helz]

I am also just going to throw out there that I believer the checker should never for any reason self check. After thinking it through its just a terrible idea.

[Calix]

Tbh now we're getting into the territory of talking about what an Arsonist should and should not do or rather the best way for him to play which I would shy away from as a topic.

Fair enough. I wanted to counter the point that votes can't be analysed before anyone decides to disregard them entirely.


Why does it matter to you?

Of course it's a bad thing to risk a hammer when we're less than three hours into a game. Why is this something that has to be spoon-fed to you? Unless you're advocating random lynches (which I don't fancy doing because that would be dull)

[RLVG]

Let's add a teaspoon of despair.

Calix

[NoctiZ]

I am also just going to throw out there that I believer the checker should never for any reason self check. After thinking it through its just a terrible idea.

Agreed, seems pretty logical once you think about it.

[NoctiZ]

Fair enough. I wanted to counter the point that votes can't be analysed before anyone decides to disregard them entirely.

I do still disagree with the point but we'll leave it at that.

[Frog]

Fair enough. I wanted to counter the point that votes can't be analysed before anyone decides to disregard them entirely.



Of course it's a bad thing to risk a hammer when we're less than three hours into a game. Why is this something that has to be spoon-fed to you? Unless you're advocating random lynches (which I don't fancy doing because that would be dull)

I'm 100% for random lynches. Now I'm 100% for scum defending scum. Defending makes no sense for Town.

[Frog]

I do still disagree with the point but we'll leave it at that.

mind is melding. Noctiz is checker.

[Frog]

I am also just going to throw out there that I believer the checker should never for any reason self check. After thinking it through its just a terrible idea.

But it's the only way I can confirm myself. :'(

[Calix]

I'm 100% for random lynches. Now I'm 100% for scum defending scum. Defending makes no sense for Town.

There's only one scum in the setup. You're either getting confused with the other game or you're reaction-testing me.

Also your argument that we shouldn't defend anyone is toxic. We need to make the most informed decision for the lynch and circlejerking over one point =/= productive.

[Helz]

I was kinda planning on sitting back and watching her for a while but I suppose I will go ahead and drop some Calix Observations.

Post 8- Fishing for how others will scum hunt
Posts 17 and 24- Hyper aware of the douse checkers mechanics
Posts 53 and 70- Defending Sen and RLVG

With another 3 or 4 posts in between that could be bids for town cred. In spite of these factors I am very slightly leaning town although I am not by any means comfortable with the slot.

[Frog]

There's only one scum in the setup. You're either getting confused with the other game or you're reaction-testing me.

Also your argument that we shouldn't defend anyone is toxic. We need to make the most informed decision for the lynch and circlejerking over one point =/= productive.

Yes. My informed decision is you're defending your scummate Sen. There is literally no reason to defend anyone.

[NoctiZ]

mind is melding. Noctiz is checker.

I love it when our minds are melding. It gives me a tingly feeling.

In all seriousness though, I just wanted to make this post to say that I'm going to bed. See ya tomorrow.

[Calix]

I was kinda planning on sitting back and watching her for a while but I suppose I will go ahead and drop some Calix Observations.

Post 8- Fishing for how others will scum hunt
Posts 17 and 24- Hyper aware of the douse checkers mechanics
Posts 53 and 70- Defending Sen and RLVG

With another 3 or 4 posts in between that could be bids for town cred. In spite of these factors I am very slightly leaning town although I am not by any means comfortable with the slot.

I'm not seeing how knowing about the setup can be considered a tell in any sense, considering that a) it's a very short, simple setup and b) attention to setups isn't alignment-indicative.

If you have identified 3 - possibly 4 - things you consider scummy, what makes you conclude that I am a 'slight town' lean?

[Frog]

I was kinda planning on sitting back and watching her for a while but I suppose I will go ahead and drop some Calix Observations.

Post 8- Fishing for how others will scum hunt
Posts 17 and 24- Hyper aware of the douse checkers mechanics
Posts 53 and 70- Defending Sen and RLVG

With another 3 or 4 posts in between that could be bids for town cred. In spite of these factors I am very slightly leaning town although I am not by any means comfortable with the slot.

Yeah, if you're going to get real ;-)

I'm not presenting any analysis today. It's just too risky. especially on town reads. But even more so on WHY I find someone scummy.

But because the cat is out of the bag, posts 53 and 70 concern me most.

[Calix]

Yeah, if you're going to get real ;-)

I'm not presenting any analysis today. It's just too risky. especially on town reads. But even more so on WHY I find someone scummy.

But because the cat is out of the bag, posts 53 and 70 concern me most.

So you decided to use flawed logic to vote me, refuse to explain the vote and then wait until another player posted to sheep their reasoning? You do realise that town doesn't have a lot of time to waste on giving no analysis, right? I notice that you're not criticising anyone else for posting analysis and that you have no problem with revealing your thoughts when someone else supposedly says them.

I find your justification of this in line with a self-conscious scum.

Frog

[Helz]

I'm not seeing how knowing about the setup can be considered a tell in any sense, considering that a) it's a very short, simple setup and b) attention to setups isn't alignment-indicative.

If you have identified 3 - possibly 4 - things you consider scummy, what makes you conclude that I am a 'slight town' lean?

I believe you incorrectly read my post. And I am not willing to explain yet. But I do like your most recent post : )


Yeah, if you're going to get real ;-)

I'm not presenting any analysis today. It's just too risky. especially on town reads. But even more so on WHY I find someone scummy.

But because the cat is out of the bag, posts 53 and 70 concern me most.

Agreed. I should probably downshift a little bit. Im just pushing to break the early D1 bullshit in favor of creating that content that we can really sink our teeth into.

[Calix]

On that note, I am going to sleep :calix:

[Frog]

So you decided to use flawed logic to vote me, refuse to explain the vote and then wait until another player posted to sheep their reasoning? You do realise that town doesn't have a lot of time to waste on giving no analysis, right? I notice that you're not criticising anyone else for posting analysis and that you have no problem with revealing your thoughts when someone else supposedly says them.

I find your justification of this in line with a self-conscious scum.

Frog

Lol, so you haven't doused me tonight. Hooray!

[Helz]

Before you go would it be possible for you to reference a game you played that you had a scum role in?

[Calix]

Before you go would it be possible for you to reference a game you played that you had a scum role in?

RLVG's Happy Fluffy Times, but I didn't technically know I was scum until Day 4, so I don't think it counts. You can enjoy watching me flail as I evade being lynched for a few days though.

Also there's POD's Mystery Box III but that was a lurkfest.

tl;dr: I have no reliable scum meta yet.

[Frog]

Players:
Helz
Frog
Calix
TheDarkestLight
RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Frog (2 [L-2]):
Sen, Calix

Calix (2 [L-2]):
RLVG, Frog

Sen (1 [L-3]):
Helz

RLVG (1 [L-3]):
TheDarkestLight

Noctiz, plop a vote

[RLVG]

Interesting playerlist, but not the right roles to make a living conversation about.
Everyone are equal, other than a Checker who may or may not hit jackpot.

[Frog]

Interesting playerlist, but not the right roles to make a living conversation about.
Everyone are equal, other than a Checker who may or may not hit jackpot.

Talks about jackpot, suggesting RLVG is a gambler.

Talks about checkers, suggesting RLVG hates chess.

Arsonists typically hate chess and love gambling.

Therefore, RLVG maaaay be the arsonist.

[RLVG]

Talks about jackpot, suggesting RLVG is a gambler.

Talks about checkers, suggesting RLVG hates chess.

Arsonists typically hate chess and love gambling.

Therefore, RLVG maaaay be the arsonist.

Talks about jackpot, suggesting RLVG is a gambler.
Yes, I buy one or two lottery scratchcards per month.

Talks about checkers, suggesting RLVG hates chess.
I love chess but I think Checkers are stale.

Arsonists typically hate chess and love gambling.
This is a true patriot statement.

Therefore, RLVG maaaay be the arsonist.
Wrong, I'm a Mass Bus Driver.

[RLVG]

Talks about RLVG, suggesting that Frog buddies RLVG.

Has posted a vote count, suggesting that Frog stares constantly on the vote counter.

Frog is rich and hawt, suggesting that Frog can buy his role.

Therefore, Frog may be the Arsonist.

[Frog]

RLVG just had surgery.

The field of R&D in flamethrowers is ever expanding.

Talk to type is a means of typing without hands.

The science exists.
He has the means.
RLVG may have replaced his arms with flanethrowers.
Therefore RLVG may be the arsonist.

[Helz]

Just to stir the pot a bit.. Noctiz


Tbh I'm not 100% willing to go with Sen for a D1 lynch. The Arsonist would know that they everyone else won't be notified of dousings. I'm not sure if he would make such a slip.

Speaking from the arsonists perspective, defending players, only focused on strategy discussion outside of this post with some soft town cred bids. I see no effort to discover others alignments and I see a blend of defensive tones and justification in his posts.

Chat is all quiet and shit. Cept for RLVG's flamethrower arms. I am still willing to push on him for the end day if people do not make up their minds. Sen could also be a decent target. Not so much just for the slip but also because of his uncooperative tone. Its really early and I don't know the player but I doubt his interactions will provide much value given his early plays even if he is town.

My vote sits on Noctiz for now.

[Helz]

I will also push that we have 3 hours 40 mins left in the day. Players should consider shifting their votes away from pressure targets and onto lynch targets if they do not think they will be available for days end. As previously stated I support lynching. As of D1 I will not be willing to lynch either Calix or Frog.

I will also point out for our checker that N0 Arson did not have a random target. He got to pick who gets doused. Accepting the fact pretty much everyone in this game knows etch other this provides some WIFOM for a good N1 check.

[Sen]

I will also push that we have 3 hours 40 mins left in the day.
hory fuk. I thought it lasted 48 hours.
I like my current vote, but am willing to lynch anyone, because seriously.

[Helz]

I'm also going to suggest a strategy because there is no way for the arson to counter it.

If checker gets good results he should reveal. This will semi-confirm 2 players. In a game this small that is a massive advantage.
Yes- The arson could fake claim. But then the checker could CC and we have once again cut the targets down considerably.
In 1v2 the checker should claim regardless of results. This creates 2 situations. 1 in which the arson CC's and the town winning has shifted from a 33% chance to a 50% chance. The other is if the arson does not CC. Once again this still increases the chance of lynching the arson because then the checker is the pivot vote as opposed to in the earlier situation where the player who did not claim checker would be.

All of these moves are good for the town. None of them can be countered by the arson. I figured this was worth presenting early on for players to keep in mind as the game progressed.

[Sen]

Sen could also be a decent target. Not so much just for the slip but also because of his uncooperative tone.
I don't need to pretend to do day 1 reads, to want to have some particular individuals alive or to play along with arbitrary strategies just so people believe I'm town.

Trying to justify a lynch in this setup on d1 with something other than policy reasons is dumb and points out at people trying to justify their actions ins a setup which doesn't require it. Saying "let's lynch Sen at random" would've been a more compelling argument.

[Sen]

Agree with the Checker strategy.

[Helz]

I don't need to pretend to do day 1 reads, to want to have some particular individuals alive or to play along with arbitrary strategies just so people believe I'm town.

Trying to justify a lynch in this setup on d1 with something other than policy reasons is dumb and points out at people trying to justify their actions ins a setup which doesn't require it. Saying "let's lynch Sen at random" would've been a more compelling argument.

I have some very real tells at this point. They are not "Hard reads" or anything but we can do much better than just suggesting a policy lynch. After the game remind me and I will dump some of those notes. D1 reads are very possible.

[RLVG]

Frog

[Sen]

Not gonna discuss that, because in the end it's gonna be your view on day 1 reads vs mine, which is a moot argument during a game.

You say you aren't lynching Frog, so unless someone pops in the 3~ hours we have and hammers, I will switch my vote towards a different person. I don't want a no-lynch.

[Helz]

Well a point you can agree with is that we will extremely likely have no more information tomorrow than we have today. If you do not feel its possible to make informed decisions today then there is no reason to think you will be able to on any other day. Best case scenario- Checker reveals himself and 1 other to not be the arson. That only improves the chances across a random action. It does nothing to change the model of decision that will have to be made from what it is right now (Even in a 2v1 situation).

Also Frog is Currently at L1. It would be great if we didnt just slap on a vote and instead actually gave reasoning with it so we could work with something tomorrow.

[Frog]

Sup.

I'll claim.

I'm the jester.

If you mislynch today the odds severely suck thereafter. Just saying.

;-)

[Frog]

My reasoning for Calix is pretty straight forward.

There should be no reason AT ALL for defending anyone if you are Town.

I was hoping you'd give it some time to think through why an Arsonist would defend someone.

[NoctiZ]

Sup, I'm back.

I'll agree on the Frog lynch on the basis that his douser strategy is flawed and disadvantageous to the town. Now that I'm more awake than yesterday night I can see why it is.


My reasoning for Calix is pretty straight forward.

There should be no reason AT ALL for defending anyone if you are Town.

I was hoping you'd give it some time to think through why an Arsonist would defend someone.

So why aren't you thinking I'm scummy for defending Sen?

[Frog]

Frog
So he can get salty in two games at the same time.

IDGAF - I'm out.

[Frog]

Just so you all know, I was actually looking forward to this game. I thought through strategy, and when it was best to disclose strategies. I don't want to play with a gamethrower. Lynch me. I'm Town.

[Helz]

My reasoning for Calix is pretty straight forward.

There should be no reason AT ALL for defending anyone if you are Town.

I was hoping you'd give it some time to think through why an Arsonist would defend someone.

I can explain my reason for not voting her if needed. But I would rather not because then I can't run the same sneakiness again.

I disagree with the frog lynch completely. He has been poking players and building information more than anyone else in the game. Those interactions are useful in many ways while in contrast most of the player base has not been a third as productive.

[Helz]

I will also once again push that real reasoning should be given with the lynch vote. That is extremely important for us to work with in future days. We will fail as a town if we allow lynches to go through without attached reasoning.

[NoctiZ]

I will also once again push that real reasoning should be given with the lynch vote. That is extremely important for us to work with in future days. We will fail as a town if we allow lynches to go through without attached reasoning.

Well, since I am willing to vote Frog I will also move away from the mantra of not discussing Arsonist strategy.

Reason why I'm willing to vote him is because his strategy of making everyone claim can reveal the douse checker to the Arsonist while we will only know after a successful burning of the DC whose claims were real and whose weren't. It'd give the Arsonist an opportunity to deduce the douse checker while we're all tapping in the dark until he's dead already.

[Sen]

If you do not feel its possible to make informed decisions today then there is no reason to think you will be able to on any other day.
False. I just do poorly with small data samples which at this point would mean nothing other than confirmation bias for me. ie; your initial vote on me could be taken as paranoid Town trying to see scummy stuff, like bad falling for an obvious shitpost, like scum trying to get a mislynch based on a weak argumen, etc.
The more posts (and time), the easier it is for me to do my job.


Also Frog is Currently at L1. It would be great if we didnt just slap on a vote and instead actually gave reasoning with it so we could work with something tomorrow.
If you're looking for a "OMG, Frog is scum!" reason, you won't find it. It's pretty much arbitrary for me at this point, and I could probably give equally subjective reasons for voting literally anybody right now.

He put me at L-1 during a stage where anyone could've thrown a hammer by accident, then moved away from me with an equally weak reason, and then there's the whole "not discuss strategy". Any discussion is good. Promoting silence disarms people who do analysis, and in this setup, that's pretty much all we have.

[Helz]

Just because I think a lot of players are missing it.

The reason RVS is used in games where no other information is given is it creates a basis to analyze behavior. Votes build and trains form. From those trains stronger trains are created with reasoning. And that reasoning is debated to form even more perspectives. From all of this reasoning we gain information on players and become more capable of making informed decisions. Refusal to give reasoning is a scum play. It cripples the town into a model of random voting an crossing their fingers in hopes of a lucky night peek. The towns weapon is their vote and their voice. If we fail to use these tools appropriately we may as well make the days 30 mins long, accept the odds of successfully lynching the arson based purely on chance, and not even call it a game at that point.

Every player in this game should acknowledge this fact and support this basic model for scum hunting if they are town. I know this is out of this sites norm for a game of this type but it does not mean we can not rise to the level of play required to do things right.

I say this because I believe we are failing to accomplish these simple principals as a whole. If we do not change we can not take pride in wining as that it will be attributed to fallacy and random chance over rational arguments.

[Helz]

False. I just do poorly with small data samples which at this point would mean nothing other than confirmation bias for me. ie; your initial vote on me could be taken as paranoid Town trying to see scummy stuff, like bad falling for an obvious shitpost, like scum trying to get a mislynch based on a weak argumen, etc.

Read my next post and you should understand what I was doing there. And I did recognize potential for a lynchbait play in that post. Its this sites favorite tool by far. I do not think I have ever played a game where someone did not pull it.

[Frog]

Helz, don't even try reasoning. Sen does not play to his win conditions. He's voting me as a personal vendetta. Literally nothing you say can reason with a gamethrowing troll. He's an asshole who is taking one game personally and is throwing bias into this game. I won't stand for it, and I won't play in this game. I could have done considerably more today, but I simply refuse to waste my time with this gamthrowing pile of sticks. You british cigarette.

[Toadette]

Helz, don't even try reasoning. Sen does not play to his win conditions. He's voting me as a personal vendetta. Literally nothing you say can reason with a gamethrowing troll. He's an asshole who is taking one game personally and is throwing bias into this game. I won't stand for it, and I won't play in this game. I could have done considerably more today, but I simply refuse to waste my time with this gamthrowing pile of sticks. You british cigarette.

Emotions are running high and this is a warning to ALL players that I won't tolerate personal attacks of this nature this game.


Rules:
No excessive personal attacks. Violators will be warned through PM, and replaced or killed if they continue. If you feel like someone has violated this rule, do not discuss it on the thread but rather PM me and I will decide the course of action to take.

[Sen]

And there go the personal insults.
http://i.imgur.com/TW5Hk1s.png

[Sen]

Helz, will you hammer if no other lynch is viable by the deadline?

[Frog]

And there go the personal insults.
http://i.imgur.com/TW5Hk1s.png

It's not an insult if it's true.

I'm alerting everyone in this game they're wasitng their time playing with you. You're a gamethrowing asshole who doesn't play to your win con. I'm done with you.

[Helz]

Helz, will you hammer if no other lynch is viable by the deadline?

I am really not sure. I have no confidence in the lynch. Really stretching my previous actions I would probably end up doing it under the justification that you and him will not get along and it will create issues in discussion for the rest of the game if one of you does not go. But all I can say is I don't care for it.

[Sen]

I am really not sure. I have no confidence in the lynch. Really stretching my previous actions I would probably end up doing it under the justification that you and him will not get along and it will create issues in discussion for the rest of the game if one of you does not go. But all I can say is I don't care for it.
What's your view on no-lynch in this setup?
As I see it, any lynch is better than a no-lynch, simply due to it increasing the chance of the Checker having a doused result in the night, and thus increasing the odds during the next day as you explained.

[Frog]

I'm not playing until Sen is replaced out. I will not play with a gamethrower. Toadette, replace Sen out or replace me out.

[Calix]

It's not an insult if it's true.

I'm alerting everyone in this game they're wasitng their time playing with you. You're a gamethrowing asshole who doesn't play to your win con. I'm done with you.

I would be concerned if you're actually being serious here. You're the leading train and you decide that NOW is the time to drag up a pointless vendetta with Sen?

Priorities!

Grow up. You're just going to quit games because someone doesn't listen to you - and that's gamethrowing?

Congratulations, you have officially taken Firebringer's title.

[Frog]

Sen admitted in the other game that my plan is 100% fullproof. He also said he won't follow it because he doesn't like me. He's not playing to his win con. He's a gamethrower. Replace me out and maybe he'll play to his win con. Until he does that, he's a gamethrower and I won't have any of it.

[Frog]

Modkill me please. End this day.

[Frog]

Fucking waste of a game.

[Calix]

Sen admitted in the other game that my plan is 100% fullproof. He also said he won't follow it because he doesn't like me. He's not playing to his win con. He's a gamethrower. Replace me out and maybe he'll play to his win con. Until he does that, he's a gamethrower and I won't have any of it.

Ah yes, because throwing a tantrum definitely isn't disrupting the game for everyone else.

Using other games to affect this one definitely isn't a dick move.

Why are you being this dramatic when we are extremely likely to lynch you?

[Frog]

Ah yes, because throwing a tantrum definitely isn't disrupting the game for everyone else.

Using other games to affect this one definitely isn't a dick move.

Why are you being this dramatic when we are extremely likely to lynch you?

Sen made this personal first. Are you fucking kidding me?

[Frog]

Frog
So he can get salty in two games at the same time.

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Sen]

Don't let him trash yet another game. Let's focus on things that matter, like this game.
He's either getting modkilled or lynched. Let's not clutter the chat with offtopic replies.

[Frog]

Arsonist, it's in your best interest to douse and burn every chance you get.

Town has a 23% chance of winning if you do this.

[Frog]

Arsonist, it's in your best interest to claim that the person you really doused isn't doused. Obviously town knows this but play off that.

[Frog]

Arsonist, do not let VCA go against you. Do not be afraid to lynch someone you've doused.

[Toadette]

Frog has been modkilled. He was a citizen.

I will update this on scheduled day end time. Expect day 2 to start at scheduled time as well.

[Toadette]

Night 1


https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpr2raslc1qcbtcto1_250.gif
Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Players:
Helz
Calix
TheDarkestLight
Secret Sign aka RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Graveyard:
Frog

Night 1 ends in 24 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160225T12&p0=224&msg=Night+1+End&font=sanserif)

[Toadette]

Day 2

No one died.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xlOlTzlQHRbzi/giphy.gif
Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Players:
Helz
Calix
TheDarkestLight
Secret Sign aka RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Graveyard:
Frog

Day 2 ends in 24 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160226T12&p0=137&msg=Day+2+End&font=sanserif&csz=1)

[Toadette]

Whooooops

4

[Sen]

That story just keeps getting better.

[NoctiZ]

Oh hey, finally I was able to load this thread.

I have a very bad feeling about TDL.

TheDarkestLight

[Calix]

Oh hey, finally I was able to load this thread.

I have a very bad feeling about TDL.

TheDarkestLight

Could you give a basic outline as to why you think he is scum/ what posts pinged you? There's only four of them so that shouldn't be hard.

[Helz]

I did not so much as look at the thread sense it closed. But I pretty much maintain the stances I took yesterday.

[Calix]

I did not so much as look at the thread sense it closed. But I pretty much maintain the stances I took yesterday.

I'm pulling this off the top of my head here, but you suspected Sen and RLVG, right? Who do you think is more likely to be Arsonist among those two?

[Sen]

Obviously me, because I'm not doused.

[Sen]

The three of you are my top candidates, btw. NoctiZ, Helz, Calix. In that order.

[NoctiZ]

Could you give a basic outline as to why you think he is scum/ what posts pinged you? There's only four of them so that shouldn't be hard.

Kinda meta reasons here but I've noticed that TDL likes to post less when he has something to hide. Besides that he doesn't stick out in this game for me to remember him at all so I'm combining these two reasons. You could say that he's the DC but I find that unlikely as my theory more aligns with him being scum that causes him to post less.

[RLVG]

Anyone wanna play russian roulette?

-Initiate Russian Roulette, 12 chambers 1 round

[Helz]

I'm pulling this off the top of my head here, but you suspected Sen and RLVG, right? Who do you think is more likely to be Arsonist among those two?

Honestly I suspect everybody. But I was much more comfortable in you and Frogs alignment. I would still rather not go into my reasoning for you until after the game but I had played many games with Frog and feel pretty comfortable with being able to read him at this point.

RLVG is giving players nothing with his empty votes. Even if he was I am not confident in my ability to read him and do not think I will gain the ability to read him effectively throughout this game.

Sen I have not played with before. I should be able to get a feel for him soon enough.

At the end of the day I believe I had voted Noctiz. I was suggesting RLVG for a D1 lynch because I do not think our player base will ever effectively peg his alignment without a night action. This translates to either policy lynch or let him walk. I suggested Sen as a D1 target because of his tone. He seemed hostile and unproductive to me. I don't know the player but at the time I felt that he was not a large asset to solving the game so the loss of his slot was the lowest risk. Some of his reasoning felt forced to me as well but thats probably more related to his issues with Frog so I am hesitant to really put value on it.

I will really start digging into the game in a bit. Kinda multitasking.

[Helz]

The three of you are my top candidates, btw. NoctiZ, Helz, Calix. In that order.

I would like to hear your reasoning on why Noctiz, Myself, and Calix are scum. And also why RLVG, Noctiz, and TDL are not.

[RLVG]

You're saying that Sen is hostile and unproductive, is that worse than being simply unproductive? It allows more discussion.

[TheDarkestLight]

Kinda meta reasons here but I've noticed that TDL likes to post less when he has something to hide. Besides that he doesn't stick out in this game for me to remember him at all so I'm combining these two reasons. You could say that he's the DC but I find that unlikely as my theory more aligns with him being scum that causes him to post less.

Meta'd.

Oh shit I got meta'd. Game over for me, you caught me.

But in all seriousness we need to actually get a lynch off today.

Despite there only being one scum you can still read votes, just not who votes what, but why they vote and how eager they are to vote.

[Helz]

You're saying that Sen is hostile and unproductive, is that worse than being simply unproductive? It allows more discussion.

Not at all. I agree that it is better. I will have to take a new look at him today. I was explaining my reasoning for pushing him as a potential lynch target yesterday. And to be fair I could be totally off. He might just be one of those players who has no real experience building game tempo and once things get going he will get into gear.

What do you think of Noctiz?

[RLVG]

In a game like this, I think it's personally about the person who casts the most doubt on everyone to increase the chance of them getting limelighted while itself shying away from focus.

[Helz]

Meta'd.

Oh shit I got meta'd. Game over for me, you caught me.

But in all seriousness we need to actually get a lynch off today.

Despite there only being one scum you can still read votes, just not who votes what, but why they vote and how eager they are to vote.

So who would you like to vote and what makes you eager to vote them in contrast to the other players?

[RLVG]

So that said, I'd like to check everyone and see who casts the most doubt.

[Calix]

Kinda meta reasons here but I've noticed that TDL likes to post less when he has something to hide. Besides that he doesn't stick out in this game for me to remember him at all so I'm combining these two reasons. You could say that he's the DC but I find that unlikely as my theory more aligns with him being scum that causes him to post less.

I'm not particularly familiar with TDL's scum game so I can't comment here. I'd rather not use meta for the basis of a read, however. From my own experience, it's rarely worked out well and I feel like the site as a whole is becoming too reliant on it. Using his posts this game, I can detect a resigned attitude (the 'game is day one over and over again' comment doesn't make him sound too enthused) of which I would find odd to hold at the start of the game. Otherwise, he's null.

Not going to comment on Checker; I expect them to have decent reasoning for whatever strategy they used if/ when they reveal.

@Helz, I find Sen's insistence that he isn't doused to be unusual for him. FMPOV, Sen isn't the sort who goes wild with gambits, but I'm not sure how else to read such comments now that he is continuing to pull them into Day 2. In this game, I cannot see how reaction-testing/ gambiting the way he is will help town in this setup, especially as the days are shorter. I consider him to be scummier than RLVG for that reason.

I dislike it when players try to reaction-test/ gambit. It only provides a cover for scum under the best circumstances.

[Calix]

So that said, I'd like to check everyone and see who casts the most doubt.

Is this a claim that you will go through everyone's posts?

Regardless of your response, I will be doing that tomorrow afternoon and posting reads. I think everyone should do that at the very least before EOD.

[TheDarkestLight]

So who would you like to vote and what makes you eager to vote them in contrast to the other players?

RLVG based on what I said yesterday, and probably you. Your actions in a game with a few, low quality posts seem like a black sheep. You stick out much more than other posters imo, and I find it odd. Not necessarily suspicious, but odd. But in this game odd is enough for me to want to lynch.

[Helz]

@Helz, I find Sen's insistence that he isn't doused to be unusual for him. FMPOV, Sen isn't the sort who goes wild with gambits, but I'm not sure how else to read such comments now that he is continuing to pull them into Day 2. In this game, I cannot see how reaction-testing/ gambiting the way he is will help town in this setup, especially as the days are shorter. I consider him to be scummier than RLVG for that reason.

I dislike it when players try to reaction-test/ gambit. It only provides a cover for scum under the best circumstances.

I use to like reaction-tests and gambits. I have found that they can be very useful. But I have also found that much more subtle actions can be every bit as telling without causing all the fuss. Usually when I do pull them it is because I do very specifically want that fuss. Identifying players focus is important. Like ripples in a pond when you do shit thats high impact you get to see players reactions to it, then you get to see others thoughts on those reactions (and so on). This is much more useful in large games than here in a game where there is only 1 power role.

[Sen]

I would like to hear your reasoning on why Noctiz, Myself, and Calix are scum. And also why RLVG, Noctiz, and TDL are not.
I said you are my candidates, not that you are scum or that others aren't.

NoctiZ: Too much agreement with other players.
Helz: Trusting page 1 "reads". Trying to direct attentiont to other players -which is the asiest way to keep it away from yourself-. Trying to pain yourself as knowledgable -and thus as a leader- via meta discussion.
Calix: Hold on for the dumbest reason to ever be used in a game of Mafia; I would've made her the Arsonist had I been the host.
TDL: Need more data.
RLVG: He's cool.

[Sen]

attention* easiest* paint*
My fingers have the derps today.

[RLVG]

Actually, I'd like to vote NoctiZ.

NoctiZ



NoctiZ

#5 - Discourages discussing strategy, the game is straight forward.
Why exactly is it straight forward?

#12 Agrees with Helz.
- For reference : #9 "I want to discuss strategy.", a little argument against Frog, mentions that Arson has no counter and no need to counter strategy.

#33 Wants to talk, but would go against Frog's rule of no strategy talk which he suddenly finds relatable.

#45 Not 100% willing to go with Sen for a D1 lynch. Mentions Arsonist knows no one else are notified of douse.

#47 Points out that's what Frog said.
- For reference : #42 I suggested we can hypoclaim everything. Checker target & doused or not.

#72 Mentions that these games are not won by observing scum's interactions but instead by lynching one scum and then proceed to analyze connections. Points out we only have to do the first step.

#78 Basically just argues, and elaborates #72.

#88A More arguing. Mentions that the Arsonist doesn't really care about the Douse Checker from a Day POV.
#88B he mentions that he didn't actually read what I said regarding #47.

#89 Potential fluff.

#91 Argues more about the base subject of what an Arsonist should do or not do, mentioning to rather shy of that subject.

#99 Agrees with Helz and mentions it's logical.
- For reference : #96 mentions that the Checker have no reason to check self and it's a terrible idea.

#100 Disagrees with the point and dismisses the subject.
- For reference : #97 Wants to counter the point that votes cannot be analyzed before anyone decides to disregard them.

#107 Fluff.

#134A Agrees on Frog lynch based on his basis that his douser strategy is flawed and hurts town.
#134B Calls out on Frog for not thinking NoctiZ is scummy based on defending Sen.

#139A Willing to vote Frog, dismisses Arsonist Strategy.
#139B Reason he's willing to vote him is because of Frog's strategy, saying it allows the Arsonist to deduce the Checker.

DAY 2

#167 Has a bad feeling about TDL and votes him because he has a fucking bad feeling about him or some shit.

#173 Uses Meta on TDL, "likes to post less when he has something to hide", subtly potrays him as Douse Checker before making him scum again.



He's flip flopping his opinion about strategy, wants to shy of it but goes for it anyway in a weird fashion, likes to argue about certain things of the Arsonist, uses a bad reasoning to vote TDL. He has minimal vote interaction and for his playstyle he seems to lay low.

[Helz]

RLVG based on what I said yesterday, and probably you. Your actions in a game with a few, low quality posts seem like a black sheep. You stick out much more than other posters imo, and I find it odd. Not necessarily suspicious, but odd. But in this game odd is enough for me to want to lynch.

Can you go into more detail on why you scum read RLVG?

And yes. I am very intentionally sticking out like a black sheep. I have strong beliefs on what is useful and what is not and I will work to create that information that is useful to me so that I can win. It may be aggressive but I strive to be high impact in any situation I touch. I kinda wish that this was not a game of 'Few, low quality' posts.

[Sen]

TDL is being aggressive. That's cool.

[Sen]

I just noticed I'm not voting.
Let's double up the love on NoctiZ.

NoctiZ

[TheDarkestLight]

Can you go into more detail on why you scum read RLVG?

And yes. I am very intentionally sticking out like a black sheep. I have strong beliefs on what is useful and what is not and I will work to create that information that is useful to me so that I can win. It may be aggressive but I strive to be high impact in any situation I touch. I kinda wish that this was not a game of 'Few, low quality' posts.

Because I can't read him.

[NoctiZ]

I find your summary of my posts to be misrepresentative RLVG, I found myself wanting to correct several things which I don't know how you misinterpreted (or typo'd because I believe there's definitely one near the beginning).

Either way: Your TL;DR at the end is pretty weird. I changed my opinion on strategy once, I actually didn't want to discuss Arsonist strategy at all initially but Calix pushed for that so idk what you even want to say with that part and idgaf what you think about my TDL reasoning. And what do you even think you know about my playstyle? lol

Besides, minimal vote interaction isn't a bad thing. The Arsonist certainly wouldn't care about whoever he votes whereas we only want to vote for whoever we think is the Arsonist. So my theory for this setup is that someone who's flopping around a lot with their vote also has an increased chance of being the Arsonist as opposed to people who are less floppy with their vote. In my head there could be a correlation.

Don't twist this into me saying that highest amount of placing different votes during the day = Arsonist. Thanks.

[Sen]

Because I can't read him.
But you can read others, can't you? A d2 policy lynch in a game that might very well end by d3 is a bad idea.
If you have reads on others, chance alone says that it's more likely that the scum is among them and not that one person you cannot read.

Hell, you are the hardest read here from the people I've played with. If we were to follow that logic, you should hang today solely because of that.

[RLVG]

Because I can't read him.

http://i.imgur.com/SkPa9W7.gif

[TheDarkestLight]

But you can read others, can't you? A d2 policy lynch in a game that might very well end by d3 is a bad idea.
If you have reads on others, chance alone says that it's more likely that the scum is among them and not that one person you cannot read.

Hell, you are the hardest read here from the people I've played with. If we were to follow that logic, you should hang today solely because of that.

If you were to follow the same logic as me then sure, vote me. I'm not even sure how I'm a hard read.

[Sen]

If you were to follow the same logic as me then sure, vote me. I'm not even sure how I'm a hard read.
Lack of data, mostly; you usually post fewer than most other players and many of your replies -especially early during games- are about strategy or meta. It doesn't say much other than TDL is TDL.

Anyway. What are your thoughts on NoctiZ?

[Sen]

Come on, people. It's not even been a page since the day started.

[Helz]

-I very intentionally did not post while watching D2 chat. I wanted to view interactions and sadly I doubt I will follow up on that info. It might happen but some shit came up and took priority.
-I town read Calix. Its based off her posts and the fact that I laid a trap for her that she past. Human nature for innocent people being accused is to prove their innocence. For guilty people its to not be proven guilty. I provided a path of least resistance in a post pushing an FoS on her while also town reading her and she went against this path of least resistance to challenge my read. Its nothing special but a lot better of a town read D1 than any other player
-My town read of frog was based off his interactions. If you look hard you will be able to see me communicating tells with him and him correctly identifying not just who I was speaking in reference to but also the exact post that was scummy prior to my revealing it to the town. I could probably write 1000 words on our interactions this game but there is no point. He is confirmed town via flip
-Noctiz or TDL should be the days lynch. I was softly walking into it at days end D1 but I did not care for his plays. I think I made a post on it.
-RLVG I still have no confidence as to being able to read him but he gave one hell of a post recently. I had the intention of reading into that post to understand his logic. Probably wont do it but I really do feel from that glorious wall post its possible to identify his mindset for a player that knows what they are doing.
-I may replace out. If I do it will very literally be a first time ever. I never sign up for a game unless I plan on going all out but this Sen/Frog thing has exhausting implications I will not go into that impact the entire site and I have to work on. With that said @Sen- please dont do shit to stir up any more issues with him. You have no idea the fires you are starting.

[Sen]

We didn't start the fire ♪
Gonna send you a pm because I don't want to drag that cancerous topic into a game.

Might not be online until almost EOD. Get active, people. This feels more liek russian roulette with the lack of discussion.

[RLVG]

Well, we just have to see the championship of this russian roulette...

[NoctiZ]

Sick activity, I was hoping that by the time I was awake and done with work there'd be a little bit more but I guess not.

There's not a lot to base any accusations on which is troubling for my playstyle. That said, RLVG didn't even talk about any of the points I made in my post as an answer to his read on me. I find that suspicious as fuck. But seeing his posts on D1 I'm not seeing him as the scummiest guy around so you're lucky you're getting off easily.

That said, I'm still convinced that the TDL lynch is justified. Names RLVG as one of his top scum reads because he can't read him. Others have already pointed out this is weird. And he accuses Helz of being scummy because he sticks out in an odd way. Idk, it seems like a weird reasoning. If I didn't think TDL's overall contributions make him look worse I might agree. Something off feeling about Helz but it could be my paranoia.

Then his answer to my vote

Meta'd.

Oh shit I got meta'd. Game over for me, you caught me.

But in all seriousness we need to actually get a lynch off today.

Despite there only being one scum you can still read votes, just not who votes what, but why they vote and how eager they are to vote.

He says that last part but doesn't do any sort of questioning or gives reasoning for why someone could be scummy for the way they're voting. I'd expect someone who offers this idea to act upon it himself.

Regarding his D1 posts:
He wants to lynch RLVG first because he is hard to read. In post #66 he adds that he always has a hard time reading RLVG. So he wanted to do it due to meta reasons regardless of whatever RLVG has said and he still sticks to it D2 without adding any other reason. Fishy in my eyes.

Overall I believe he has a whopping 7 posts. Makes me think he wants to intentionally lay low.

[Sen]

Just pointing out that the day ends in 1.5 hours and we're in a no-lynch situation. This isn't good.
We need a lynch. If the Checker isn't doused, and implying none of the lynches have been doused, the Checker would have a 50% chance of getting a doused result tonight. And that's if we don't get the Arsonist, obviously.

So yeah, throw a vote.
@Helz: You said either NoctiZ or TDL should be lynched, yet your vote is nowhere to be seen.

[NoctiZ]

Just pointing out that the day ends in 1.5 hours and we're in a no-lynch situation. This isn't good.
We need a lynch. If the Checker isn't doused, and implying none of the lynches have been doused, the Checker would have a 50% chance of getting a doused result tonight. And that's if we don't get the Arsonist, obviously.

So yeah, throw a vote.
@Helz: You said either NoctiZ or TDL should be lynched, yet your vote is nowhere to be seen.

That's a pretty weird assumption though because the Arsonist surely didn't control the way the two lynches went. If so then we'd need to look at the people going for TDL or me and that'd be me and RLVG respectively. So yeah.

[Sen]

That's a pretty weird assumption though because the Arsonist surely didn't control the way the two lynches went. If so then we'd need to look at the people going for TDL or me and that'd be me and RLVG respectively. So yeah.
Yeah, but in any scenario, any lynch increases the chances for the Checker, even if they aren't 50% because either the Checker is doused, a doused has been lynched, or both.
Not to mention that a lynch is our only way to get the Arsonist, so a no-lynch in this setup is the same as waiving our chance at winning for the day.

[NoctiZ]

Yeah, but in any scenario, any lynch increases the chances for the Checker, even if they aren't 50% because either the Checker is doused, a doused has been lynched, or both.
Not to mention that a lynch is our only way to get the Arsonist, so a no-lynch in this setup is the same as waiving our chance at winning for the day.

True, I'll never advocate no-lynching.

[TheDarkestLight]

Sick activity, I was hoping that by the time I was awake and done with work there'd be a little bit more but I guess not.

There's not a lot to base any accusations on which is troubling for my playstyle. That said, RLVG didn't even talk about any of the points I made in my post as an answer to his read on me. I find that suspicious as fuck. But seeing his posts on D1 I'm not seeing him as the scummiest guy around so you're lucky you're getting off easily.

That said, I'm still convinced that the TDL lynch is justified. Names RLVG as one of his top scum reads because he can't read him. Others have already pointed out this is weird. And he accuses Helz of being scummy because he sticks out in an odd way. Idk, it seems like a weird reasoning. If I didn't think TDL's overall contributions make him look worse I might agree. Something off feeling about Helz but it could be my paranoia.

Then his answer to my vote


He says that last part but doesn't do any sort of questioning or gives reasoning for why someone could be scummy for the way they're voting. I'd expect someone who offers this idea to act upon it himself.

Regarding his D1 posts:
He wants to lynch RLVG first because he is hard to read. In post #66 he adds that he always has a hard time reading RLVG. So he wanted to do it due to meta reasons regardless of whatever RLVG has said and he still sticks to it D2 without adding any other reason. Fishy in my eyes.

Overall I believe he has a whopping 7 posts. Makes me think he wants to intentionally lay low.

Bolded: Nice, so when I do it it's weird but when you do it it's fine.

I've been looking around for said reasoning involving votes Noctiz, but why should I say exactly how I get my reads before I call someone out with it? That just lets them know how to avoid it. I'll say it afterwards, but not before.

Your attempts seem quite sad imo, and I am very amused by your attempts. Perhaps you do belong on my "Probable scum list". Just gonna have to see how you continue on.

[Helz]

Looks like its 30 mins until days end. I have to toss in a vote and I dont want a no-lynch. Sorry Noctiz.
Noctiz

Also I will not be replacing out. If I am alive tomorrow I will step it up and work harder.

[NoctiZ]

Bolded: Nice, so when I do it it's weird but when you do it it's fine.

I've been looking around for said reasoning involving votes Noctiz, but why should I say exactly how I get my reads before I call someone out with it? That just lets them know how to avoid it. I'll say it afterwards, but not before.

Your attempts seem quite sad imo, and I am very amused by your attempts. Perhaps you do belong on my "Probable scum list". Just gonna have to see how you continue on.

Yeah, when you do it it's weird because you don't even bother to try and find other proof as opposed to what I am doing now.

I find it laughable that your only defense is a personal attack basically saying "hurr durr your attempt is sad" while contributing nothing, while not even adding anything and while thinking it's okay to not even have an amount of posts in the double digits. Atleast I am putting some effort into making a real read instead of scratching my balls.

Hilarious, right?

[NoctiZ]

You shits, I'm the Douse Checker. I've checked RLVG, he's not doused. I won't tell my reasoning as that'd help the Arsonist figure out who to douse to avoid my checks.

[Helz]

Oh dear. I actually had Sen pegged as Douse Checker.

TheDarkestLight

[TheDarkestLight]

Yeah, when you do it it's weird because you don't even bother to try and find other proof as opposed to what I am doing now.

I find it laughable that your only defense is a personal attack basically saying "hurr durr your attempt is sad" while contributing nothing, while not even adding anything and while thinking it's okay to not even have an amount of posts in the double digits. Atleast I am putting some effort into making a real read instead of scratching my balls.

Hilarious, right?

Ha, I gave my reason already, but you are clearly taking it out of context. Douse Checker sure, but your intelligence is obviously lacking as you apparently are among the group that can't read for shit.

Clearly post count makes a person town. Guess I should just start spamming then huh? Spam so I have the most posts in the game because that will definitely confirm me as town. Nice strong logic you got there NoctiZ.

And I did put effort sir, your attempt to discredit me is noted.

[Sen]

Fair enough.
TheDarkestLight

[Sen]

Calix, RLVG, I summon thee!

[Toadette]

Night 2

No one was lynched.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4237464/pocahontas-addams-family-o.gif
Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Players:
Helz
Calix
TheDarkestLight
Secret Sign aka RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Graveyard:
Frog

Night 2 ends in 24 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160227T12&p0=224&msg=Night+2+End&font=slab&csz=1)

[Toadette]

Day 3

No one died.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/5-05-2014/q63C2i.gif
Role List:
Arsonist
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Citizen
Douse checker

Players:
Helz
Calix
TheDarkestLight
RLVG
Sen
NoctiZ

Graveyard:
Frog

4

Day 3 ends in 24 hours (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20160228T12&p0=224&msg=Day+3+End&font=sanserif&csz=1)

[RLVG]

No one was burned like I had predicted?

[NoctiZ]

F my life, I was too busy all day that I forgot this game even existed. I should've submitted my action right after the day ended.. lmao

[Calix]

No one was burned like I had predicted?

Just to confirm, you're not counter-claiming NoctiZ? Neither of us were around at EOD yesterday so it's good to clear this up. I for one do not claim Douse Checker.

NoctiZ, are you saying that you didn't check someone last night?

[NoctiZ]

Just to confirm, you're not counter-claiming NoctiZ? Neither of us were around at EOD yesterday so it's good to clear this up. I for one do not claim Douse Checker.

NoctiZ, are you saying that you didn't check someone last night?

Eyup

[TheDarkestLight]

Eyup

So much for contributing more than me. You literally have the only town night action and... nothing.

[NoctiZ]

So much for contributing more than me. You literally have the only town night action and... nothing.

Do as I say, not as I do. You still besmuddle my actions and do nothing to change yours. Real cool guy.

[NoctiZ]

Do as I say, not as I do. You still besmirch my actions and do nothing to change yours. Real cool guy.

Fixed

[TheDarkestLight]

Do as I say, not as I do. You still besmuddle my actions and do nothing to change yours. Real cool guy.

Of course I don't change my actions, I have none.

[NoctiZ]

Of course I don't change my actions, I have none.

Yeah, you're goddamn right about that.

I'm gonna peg Calix as the Arsonist. Her words are too cautiously chosen for my liking. It seems to me as if she's carefully treading around not wanting to piss people off.

Calix

[RLVG]

Just to confirm, you're not counter-claiming NoctiZ?

I'm not the douse checker.
I'm a perfectly normal civilian Citizen. For all I know, I got doused the following night because the DC wouldn't check the same target twice in a row lol.

[Calix]

Yeah, you're goddamn right about that.

I'm gonna peg Calix as the Arsonist. Her words are too cautiously chosen for my liking. It seems to me as if she's carefully treading around not wanting to piss people off.

Calix

Fancy going into detail on which posts struck you as 'cautious'? We only get a day so making a flimsy accusation and running off is far from the optimal strategy.

[NoctiZ]

Fancy going into detail on which posts struck you as 'cautious'? We only get a day so making a flimsy accusation and running off is far from the optimal strategy.

It's mostly your inconsistency of the amount of posts plus the feeling of you wanting to stay under the radar. And the way you phrased the last post about not claiming douse checker sounded as if you really did not want there to be any misunderstandings as if it'd be bad for you. Just suspicious in my eyes. It's hard to find really convicting reasons for anybody in a game like this though so of course any accusations will seem weak.

Besides, I didn't run away so putting that assumption out there leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Helz]

I am not the douse checker.

I am anodyne that we no lynched yesterday. We really needed that. But I am going to suggest that we no lynch today. By doing so the Arson is forced to either douse again or burn and be in a 2v1 situation. If we lynch today he could win tonight (Assuming his n0 action was not to douse Frog).

It is detrimental to lynch today and if we wait until tomorrow we will either have less players on the board or we will pretty much have a confirmed sheriff check kinda night action that will prove 1 player is innocent/semi confirm 1 player is guilty. This depends on Noctiz not derping though..

[Calix]

It's mostly your inconsistency of the amount of posts plus the feeling of you wanting to stay under the radar. And the way you phrased the last post about not claiming douse checker sounded as if you really did not want there to be any misunderstandings as if it'd be bad for you. Just suspicious in my eyes. It's hard to find really convicting reasons for anybody in a game like this though so of course any accusations will seem weak.

Besides, I didn't run away so putting that assumption out there leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

What do you mean by your first point? I haven't checked my post count but I don't think I've been inactive nor have I been inconsistent with who I've been accusing. If you mean my point against Sen, I explained why my read on him changed and I still stand by that. Other than that, not sure what you are referring to.

I said that because I wasn't here at EOD when you claimed, so I claimed that first thing to ensure you were confirmed as town.

I said 'run away' because your initial accusation was skeletal/ difficult to counter properly and there wasn't anyone else in the thread when I posted.

I'll just add that everyone knows that accusations are always going to be shaky in lone-scum setups and that it goes without saying.

[Calix]

I am not the douse checker.

I am anodyne that we no lynched yesterday. We really needed that. But I am going to suggest that we no lynch today. By doing so the Arson is forced to either douse again or burn and be in a 2v1 situation. If we lynch today he could win tonight (Assuming his n0 action was not to douse Frog).

It is detrimental to lynch today and if we wait until tomorrow we will either have less players on the board or we will pretty much have a confirmed sheriff check kinda night action that will prove 1 player is innocent/semi confirm 1 player is guilty. This depends on Noctiz not derping though..

Given that 2/ 3 players are doused at the moment, then it is a possibility. I dislike how you brought up the idea this early on in the day as it means that players will have more incentive to slack off today. Not really the thing we need right now.

What do you mean with your last point?

[NoctiZ]

What do you mean by your first point? I haven't checked my post count but I don't think I've been inactive nor have I been inconsistent with who I've been accusing. If you mean my point against Sen, I explained why my read on him changed and I still stand by that. Other than that, not sure what you are referring to.

I said that because I wasn't here at EOD when you claimed, so I claimed that first thing to ensure you were confirmed as town.

I said 'run away' because your initial accusation was skeletal/ difficult to counter properly and there wasn't anyone else in the thread when I posted.

I'll just add that everyone knows that accusations are always going to be shaky in lone-scum setups and that it goes without saying.

Regarding your last point: So you agree that you saying it's a "flimsy accusation" is stupid?

Next: Your reason for saying 'run away' is weak.

Lastly: What I really meant was the content of your points being not so very controversial and it didn't make you stand out. You just argued a few mechanics but didn't attack anyone. That's the overall feeling I got from you.

Regarding Helz's idea: It seems alright. I don't think we should do lynch today either now that he's said it. But I do agree with Calix: him bringing it up so early doesn't help the activity.

[Sen]

The Arsonist has to be lynched tomorrow tops or they'll win. Lynching today reduces the suspect pool.
Calix
I'm always saying she's scum and have never lynched her. This seems like a good opportunity.

[NoctiZ]

Given that 2/ 3 players are doused at the moment, then it is a possibility. I dislike how you brought up the idea this early on in the day as it means that players will have more incentive to slack off today. Not really the thing we need right now.

What do you mean with your last point?

He means that no matter if Arsonist burns or if I get a check off: The probability of lynching the Arsonist rises.

[NoctiZ]

The Arsonist has to be lynched tomorrow tops or they'll win. Lynching today reduces the suspect pool.
Calix
I'm always saying she's scum and have never lynched her. This seems like a good opportunity.

If we lynch today and mislynch the Arsonist can burn and win assuming Frog wasn't doused.

Sen

[Sen]

If we lynch today and mislynch the Arsonist can burn and win assuming Frog wasn't doused.

Sen
And assuming today's lynch isn't doused.
I'm not going with a no-lynch just because people aren't even paying attention to this game, letting d2 end in a no-lynch and failing to use the only Town night action.

[Helz]

We could still decide to lynch. I am just pushing that we will be able to make a better decision tomorrow.

The fact is that tomorrow we will have 1 of 2 situations:
1- Almost every player will be doused. This means that Noctiz has an extremely good chance of confirming a player as town and if he hits a non doused player they have a very good chance of being the arson. This shifts his role much closer to that of a Sheriff peek.
2- The arson will burn and it will be 2v1. This is still an improved situation for us

[Calix]

Regarding your last point: So you agree that you saying it's a "flimsy accusation" is stupid?

Next: Your reason for saying 'run away' is weak.

Lastly: What I really meant was the content of your points being not so very controversial and it didn't make you stand out. You just argued a few mechanics but didn't attack anyone. That's the overall feeling I got from you.

Regarding Helz's idea: It seems alright. I don't think we should do lynch today either now that he's said it. But I do agree with Calix: him bringing it up so early doesn't help the activity.

In general, I think going 'it's just a hunch' by Day 3 or anything along those lines is unneeded because it's already been said in the first two days.

You disagree that your opening post was bare-bones? I think you could have left a couple more points for me to defend myself with.

I haven't stood out? With regards to Day 1 and my push on Frog, I disagree. I admit that I wasn't around for a lot of Day 2 though due to an unfortunate series of commitments though.

[RLVG]

Calix
I'm always saying she's scum and have never lynched her. This seems like a good opportunity.

Giving up on the vote of TDL? *yesterday

[Helz]

Yeah. I should have held off. I am just afraid of the arson fast hammering given the chance so I wanted to get everyone to look at the numbers and understand the risk.

[Calix]

The Arsonist has to be lynched tomorrow tops or they'll win. Lynching today reduces the suspect pool.
Calix
I'm always saying she's scum and have never lynched her. This seems like a good opportunity.

So you wait until the Checker votes me and then vote, even though I've made some accusations towards you earlier, and you've never made a case against me?

Really now.

[NoctiZ]

In general, I think going 'it's just a hunch' by Day 3 or anything along those lines is unneeded because it's already been said in the first two days.

You disagree that your opening post was bare-bones? I think you could have left a couple more points for me to defend myself with.

I haven't stood out? With regards to Day 1 and my push on Frog, I disagree. I admit that I wasn't around for a lot of Day 2 though due to an unfortunate series of commitments though.

I accept this.

However, what the fuck do you even mean with the first point? So is it accepted by now that it's just a hunch or do you believe it shouldn't be just a hunch anymore?

[Sen]

Giving up on the vote of TDL? *yesterday
I only voted TDL to avoid a no-lynch, since he already had votes on him and we had like 30 minutes or so.

[Calix]

I accept this.

However, what the fuck do you even mean with the first point? So is it accepted by now that it's just a hunch or do you believe it shouldn't be just a hunch anymore?

I mean "cut straight to the point and don't waste time hedging around an accusation"

To add to this, it applies especially to you as your motivations are beyond question.

[NoctiZ]

I mean "cut straight to the point and don't waste time hedging around an accusation"

To add to this, it applies especially to you as your motivations are beyond question.

I'd accept this reasoning if it wasn't such a peculiar setup with such peculiar low activity.

[TheDarkestLight]

Helz

I noted his presence yesterday was odd to me, and honestly, it's still the person sticking out to be most today. If he isn't the Arsonist then he is likely someone who got doused, simply based on his activity and intelligence.

Yes we're in a rather poor situation considering douses to people remaining, but Helz is simply the person sticking out.

[Sen]

Who else is sticking out?

Half of the living players (2/3 of the Town) are doused by this point unless Frog was doused.

[NoctiZ]

Who else is sticking out?

Half of the living players (2/3 of the Town) are doused by this point unless Frog was doused.

You and Helz are the odd ones out in my eyes.

[Sen]

You and Helz are the odd ones out in my eyes.
That should've read "3/5" of the living Town. 3 players are doused right now.