S-FM 173 The Colder War

[Suntax]

The year is 1958, the Cuban missile crisis yet to be started and the great soviet union not falling but growing.
The soviet peoples celebration from the death of Stalin fell years ago and they are back to the hard toiling in the factory's but at the dead of night a storm with the magnitude never seen by world passes the USSR.

48 Years in the Future President Putin of the Russian Federation sits, speaking with his chair of scientific discovery "President we have been able to Improve the Holographic projection software created by america, here as you can see are 3 US president from the cold war almost real but as you can see with a click of a button they disappear and reappear at your will"
At the same time the same storm that plagued the year of 1958 passes over Moscow"

then when the clock strikes 2.00am other both realms of time the figures rise the times are warped forwards and backwards till just 13 men and women remain standing at the Kremlin door with one goal, take down the opposition and move back to the realms of time they appeared from.




Roles list

Capitalist Scum
President Truman (Godfather)
President Nixon (Consigliere)
American Trooper


Proletariat
Leon Trotsky (Spy+Vigilante)
Vladimir Lenin (Professor+Doctor)
Hidden Communist
Hidden Communist
Soviet Worker (Citizen)
Soviet Worker (Citizen)
Soviet Worker (Citizen)
Soviet Worker (Citizen)


The Others
Joseph Stalin (serial killer)
Fidel Castro(Witch)


Possible Communist role:
Sleeper agent,Gulag officer,KGB agent,Anti communist agent,Premier Security Service,Premier's personal 'Entertainment'

Sign-up list
1.Comrade StealthBomber
2.Mushroom (toadette)
3.Lone Russian (yuki)
4.Real Life Viking Gamer (RLVG)
5.The hill filled with thorn bushes(thornholt)
6.Sensational (sen)
7. Crumpetz N' Tea (superjack)
8.Calixy Bar (calix)
9.The dark Comrade(DarknessB)
10.The second SunTAX (secondpassing)
11.Glorious Town leader (Firebringer)
12.HE RETURNS (MattZed)
13.insignificant call center (mikecall)

Reserves
1. Iced tea( iced monopoly)


Grave yard

Day shortcuts

Setup link
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/34385-S-FM-Colder-war-restarted-setup


day end time-48 hours
http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Vladivostok+3%3A35am+10th+January+&x=4&y=7

7

[SuperJack]

:sheep:

[Firebringer]

:sheep:

Hello grandmaster of sheep? How is the flock today?

Calix
Because of statistical odds

[Orpz]

Game thread locked. Part of the restart conditions was to wait 2 days until after the new setup got approved. I accidentally forgot to send the approval publicly, but it has only been a day since.

Game delayed for 24 hours.

Suntax, please see your PM for more details.

[Orpz]

Game reopened.

[Suntax]

Comrades the game is open I shall change the wolf link now
LONG LIVE THE MOTHERLAND

[Mikecall]

Calix

Now, lets get this going ;).

[DarknessB]

For the Motherland!

[DarknessB]

By the way, I am going to be super confused in this game given we have both Mikecall and MattZed. Forgive me if I start slipping into Mikezed and Mattcall names.

[Mikecall]

No problem, just got to remember which one out of MattCall and Mikezed Is, but if you want a reference, MikeZed I will be ;).

[Mikecall]

Or would it be Mattcall.

[DarknessB]

More serious post time: What have we learned from the first game? Don't TPR hunt, don't overread Day 1 "slips" (unless, it's MattZed, then lynches are hilarious), try to give reads, and please don't lurk.

[Mikecall]

More serious post time: What have we learned from the first game? Don't TPR hunt, don't overread Day 1 "slips" (unless, it's MattZed, then lynches are hilarious), try to give reads, and please don't lurk.

Not making that mistake like last game, mass lurking, but hopefully, will contribute a lot to help you all, if you ask the right questions of course.

[Firebringer]

Calix

Now, lets get this going ;).

Town leader approves this vote

[DarknessB]

Anyway, Fire and Mattcall are doing their RVS deal with Calix. I'm fine with this, especially as Calix is an active poster.

[Firebringer]

For the Motherland!

How did u sneak in this game?

[Mikecall]

Calix will make an appearence soon, I can sense it.

[DarknessB]

How did u sneak in this game?

I am THE Dark Comrade -- there couldn't be a Cold War without me.

[Mikecall]

How did u sneak in this game?

Darkness might of swapped for iced.

[Firebringer]

Anyway, Fire and Mattcall are doing their RVS deal with Calix. I'm fine with this, especially as Calix is an active poster.

And your staying neutral in it, not scummy at all

[DarknessB]

Darkness might of swapped for iced.

Real answer -- I replaced in for Mikecall in Game 1 so I automatically got a spot in the remake. Iced dropped out of Game 2 and ika was unsigned so that opened up a couple of new spots. Ironically, Iced was able to play, but he re-signed into the game too late so he's on reserve now.

[SuperJack]

:mareep:

My :sheep: evolved into :mareep:

[Mikecall]

Real answer -- I replaced in for Mikecall in Game 1 so I automatically got a spot in the remake. Iced dropped out of Game 2 and ika was unsigned so that opened up a couple of new spots. Ironically, Iced was able to play, but he re-signed into the game too late so he's on reserve now.

Fair enough, I managed to sneak in my sign vote, when Suntax asked :).

[DarknessB]

And your staying neutral in it, not scummy at all

LOL, I'd prefer to hear what she has to say before piling three votes on her. This is not Charmander's Revenge with our goal to be the six minute day (though that was absolutely hilarious).

[Mikecall]

:mareep:

My :sheep: evolved into :mareep:

Its the evolution of the sheep, we are all dead from its presence. :watermeloann:

[MattZed]

Or would it be Mattcall.
You're MikeZed, of course.

Firebringer I've arrived to fulfill my purpose. No one shall lynch you without lynching me first!

btw policy lynch.

Yukitaki Oni

[DarknessB]

Its the evolution of the sheep, we are all dead from its presence. :watermeloann:

The proper picture code is just [wm] with colons. Like this: :wm:

[Mikecall]

Whoops, :magikarp:

[DarknessB]

You're MikeZed, of course.

Firebringer I've arrived to fulfill my purpose. No one shall lynch you without lynching me first!

btw policy lynch.

Yukitaki Oni

I am strangely on board with this decision given past Yuki games and lack of contribution.

Yukitaki Oni

Yes, MattZed and I are agreeing on something -- I'm really scared too, guys.

[Mikecall]

The proper picture code is just [wm] with colons. Like this: :wm:

Thanks, I always used to writing it, just coincidence on my part.

[DarknessB]

Thanks, I always used to writing it, just coincidence on my part.

For what it's worth, it originally was written out as the whole name, but they changed the code because people didn't want to do that over and over, lol.

[Mikecall]

For what it's worth, it originally was written out as the whole name, but they changed the code because people didn't want to do that over and over, lol.

Haha, you learn stuff everyday.

[DarknessB]

Uh, why didn't the Yuki votes work? We might have spelled wrong -- one second.

[DarknessB]

Let's try this again:

Yukitaka Oni

[DarknessB]

Last time I ever trust MattZed on spelling, lol.

[Mikecall]

Now it has worked.

[Sen]

Yeah, you typed "Yukitaki", which sounds like food.
Yukitaka Oni

[DarknessB]

Yeah, you typed "Yukitaki", which sounds like food.
Yukitaka Oni

Delicious and lynchable? :)

[MattZed]

Last time I ever trust MattZed on spelling, lol.
In my defense, the game thread doesn't have actual account names to copypasta.

Yukitaka Oni

[DarknessB]

In my defense, the game thread doesn't have actual account names to copypasta.

Yukitaka Oni

Don't start me with copypasta and memes unless you want S-FM Cold War to become S-FM Memeopolis.

[Sen]

Delicious and lynchable? :)
Indeed. :smile:

[Calix]

Ello folks.

It appears that history will repeat itself with this game, eh?

While I do not consider a policy lynch as the first option, I am more than willing to add pressure onto Yukitaka. This could turn out to be more productive than RVS if we have a clear target to glean information from.

I would vote but I've noticed that a few more votes have been added so I shall check the vote counter first.

[Calix]

L-4

I think L-3 shall be fine.

Yukitaka Oni

[Yukitaka Oni]

Cyka Blyat v)o.o)^!!!!! Agh Nuuuuu!! Chiki Briki! I V! Damke! Tovarishch! Ya udaril!!!! Nyet!

[DarknessB]

Cyka Blyat v)o.o)^!!!!! Agh Nuuuuu!! Chiki Briki! I V! Damke! Tovarishch! Ya udaril!!!! Nyet!

LOL -- and you wonder why we're pushing for a policy lynch. :love:

[Yukitaka Oni]

For mother Russia v)x.o)^ this is my game! Your capitalist dog will not die alone v)x.o)^!!!!!
Calix
Die with me you dog!!!!! v)x.o)>!!!! Cyka!!!! Blyat!!!!

[MattZed]

LOL -- and you wonder why we're pushing for a policy lynch. :love:
Comrade, you may not remember Russian can be used this game.

[MattZed]

MikeZed, what's taking you so long to join the Yuki train?

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL -- and you wonder why we're pushing for a policy lynch. :love:
If you can't handle my language then blame Suntax. Or use translation nub v)x.o)>!

[Yukitaka Oni]

MikeZed, what's taking you so long to join the Yuki train?
Has yet to find a lynch train, including himself v(o.o(<

[MattZed]

If you can't handle my language then blame Suntax. Or use translation nub v)x.o)>!
Nyet.

[Mikecall]

MikeZed, what's taking you so long to join the Yuki train?

The train to destruction ;), you know me Mattcall, :sheep:

[MattZed]

The train to destruction ;), you know me Mattcall, :sheep:

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.

[DarknessB]

Comrade, you may not remember Russian can be used this game.

Oh, I remember, Comrade Zed -- I was referring to the lack of an attempt to justify why we shouldn't lynch, the supposed communist Yuki. I think the capitalists got to him...

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

[DarknessB]

For mother Russia v)x.o)^ this is my game! Your capitalist dog will not die alone v)x.o)^!!!!!
Calix
Die with me you dog!!!!! v)x.o)>!!!! Cyka!!!! Blyat!!!!

Wait, wait wait -- SuperJack, he speaks good English, so he should lead the Town? :)

[Mikecall]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

Are you sure it is not order 66? ;).

[Sen]

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.
Do you actually think Oni is scum?

[DarknessB]

Anyone who defile me will be send to Gulag! Even if you are town or journalists that about to become the puppet of the dog v)x.o)>!
Order 227- no retreat! No surrender! Coward will be shot v)x.o)>!!!!

LOL -- this sounds like Firebringer in Camp Mafia. I am waiting for the "YOU CAN'T LYNCH ME -- I AM TOWN!" right before the hammer.

[Mikecall]

The later you bus your partner, the more suspicious it is.

Then place me in the most suspicious list, I feel like the Calix train has my attention.

[MattZed]

Do you actually think Oni is scum?
Absolutely.

[DarknessB]

I think it was rather suspicious that MattZed started the Yuki train (and I joined very quickly), but Yuki instead of voting MattZed in retaliation / suspicion, votes Calix, which just happens to be the other train going on. Just seems like Yuki is after survival vs. finding the scum. Makes me more suspicious.

[Mikecall]

I think it was rather suspicious that MattZed started the Yuki train (and I joined very quickly), but Yuki instead of voting MattZed in retaliation / suspicion, votes Calix, which just happens to be the other train going on. Just seems like Yuki is after survival vs. finding the scum. Makes me more suspicious.

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

[Mikecall]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer :push:

[DarknessB]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

[DarknessB]

It does seem suspicious, why join the train that I started on Calix when Yuki had other targets she could of went for?

LOL, it almost hurts you to say that I can see. Similar to how I'm astonished that I agree with MattZed on a Day 1 vote.

[DarknessB]

Last post cited the wrong quote. Was actually going for:


Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer :push:

LOL, it almost hurts you to say that I can see. Similar to how I'm astonished that I agree with MattZed on a Day 1 vote.

[DarknessB]

Preserving the vote count for record-keeping purposes, as it looks like the initial flurry is over:

Calix (3 [L-4]):
Firebringer, Mikecall, Yukitaka Oni

Yukitaka Oni (4 [L-3]):
MattZed, DarknessB, Sen, Calix

[Mikecall]

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

Its a possible evaluation, but if i was in that suituation, I would of went on someone who would of been the most suspicious in doing the train overall, its worth considering.

But its reminds me of a question,

If you guys had to choose someone who you would of voted, who would it be and why do you want to proceed with that vote?

For you Darkness and Mattcall, what made you want to lynch Yuki in the first place?

For Yuki, Why do you want to join the train that Myself and Firebringer used a vote on? Your play at the moment tells me you might be a neutral possibility.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Listen here all the useless v)x.o)>! This is Soviet Russia! Everything is opposite!
- Firebringer: Sheriff/Jailor is Consligere/Kidnapper confirmed Mafia in here v)x.o)>! A real dog!
- SuperJack: Real England! Real James Bourne! 007 scum dog confirmed v(x.o(<!
- Calix: Cyka v)x.o)>! Blyat!
- DarknessB: Journalists who want to become a puppet of the dog! Off to Siberia ! Say hello to Stalin for me v)x.o)>!
- The rest who voted me: Traitors v)x.o)>! May the NKVD have mercy on your soul!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Or should I say the town leader of this town, Firebringer :push:
In Soviet Russia, Firebringer is Mafia confirmed v(x.o(<!

[DarknessB]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...

[Calix]

Yup, more logical targets would have been either MattZed (starting the train) or me (moving the train along) -- i.e. if Yuki were Town, he'd be suspicious of those who were starting to vote him up. Instead, he went for the lower hanging fruit in Calix who already had 2 votes on her and who joined the Yuki train a little later on.

Low-hanging fruit, lol

While the conversation about Yukitaka is useful, I still want to proceed with my generic setup spec to have two conversations going on at once. I'll only ask two so I don't detract from the conversation too much.

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?

[DarknessB]

Listen here all the useless v)x.o)>! This is Soviet Russia! Everything is opposite!
- Firebringer: Sheriff/Jailor is Consligere/Kidnapper confirmed Mafia in here v)x.o)>! A real dog!
- SuperJack: Real England! Real James Bourne! 007 scum dog confirmed v(x.o(<!
- Calix: Cyka v)x.o)>! Blyat!
- DarknessB: Journalists who want to become a puppet of the dog! Off to Siberia ! Say hello to Stalin for me v)x.o)>!
- The rest who voted me: Traitors v)x.o)>! May the NKVD have mercy on your soul!

LOL, so basically everyone is scum? I love it! :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

Its a possible evaluation, but if i was in that suituation, I would of went on someone who would of been the most suspicious in doing the train overall, its worth considering.

But its reminds me of a question,

If you guys had to choose someone who you would of voted, who would it be and why do you want to proceed with that vote?

For you Darkness and Mattcall, what made you want to lynch Yuki in the first place?

For Yuki, Why do you want to join the train that Myself and Firebringer used a vote on? Your play at the moment tells me you might be a neutral possibility.
Lynch 4 people who vote me when day 2 begin, say your prayer traitor. Cheka will put you out of misery....

[Sen]

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?
This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...
Same as Mafia camp. You die with me today!
DarknessB

[DarknessB]

This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

Because they're going to be down a player when Yuki gets lynched and we feel sorry for them? :)

[Calix]

Yuki plays opaquely and does not contribute to Town discussion whatsoever -- this has been true in all of his past games. He's either going to be an empty slot that we give a pass to throughout the entire game, or we policy lynch him now. We tried the former in Camp Mafia and Yuki (later replaced by ika) turned out to be the last scum who won the game for the Mafia. I would prefer that we not make that mistake again, especially as several other logged games have suggested that Yuki is not going to contribute if he's left alive. Also, from a host meta perspective, given Yuki is Russian, I could see Suntax giving him an ironic role here if he handpicked (capitalist much?).

Further, Yuki's response to being voted up (some Russian which it wasn't clear was any sort of a defense) and impulsively jumping onto the other train does not make me any less suspicious of his motivations either, as I've said before. Seemed to be far more about survival and bolstering another train vs. logical suspicion toward MattZed or myself, which he should have if he is Town. Doesn't seem to be any there so far...

I feel like Suntax was aware of the negative attitudes towards Yukitaka and possibly gave them a role that would fit in with that...but that's just a fleeting thought.

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL, so basically everyone is scum? I love it! :)
Love to butcher you first, Cyka v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Same as Mafia camp. You die with me today!
DarknessB

LOL, I'm glad Yuki is following my roadmap on how to act less suspiciously and pick a less obvious target than Calix. Can you call me Papa now?

[Calix]

This shit again? Remind me why is it in our interest to give the scum a plan for the night.

Yes, it's a thing with me.

Give them a suboptimal strategy. Give an answer that is deliberately scummy to elicit reactions. Take the opportunity to do something with the questions or ignore them.

Damn, you act like I expect you to take them at face value.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Everyone chill the Blyat out! I'm solo with DarknessB. Prepare your popcorn and stay out of this v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Sen, Calix, Mattzed. Get the Blyat out of my way or I send you to Gulag train tomorrow! v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Sen, Calix, Mattzed. Get the Blyat out of my way or I send you to Gulag train tomorrow! v)x.o)>!

LOL, and now he's threatening a bunch of other players. This is very entertaining at the very least? :wm:

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.
You maybe the only one who counter me. But in this game. I AM BOSS v)O.O)>! GET IT Cyka?

[Mikecall]

Yukitaka, the one who contributes a ton to the town :ludicolo:

[DarknessB]

You maybe the only one who counter me. But in this game. I AM BOSS v)O.O)>! GET IT Cyka?

We've already established that Firebringer is the Glorious Town Leader. That role has been claimed already. Try again. :)

[Calix]

Because they're going to be down a player when Yuki gets lynched and we feel sorry for them? :)

Why are you so sure that Yukitaka is mafia and not town/ neutral? The evidence from this game doesn't look promising for them, I agree with you there, but your level of confidence in Yukitaka's alignment is not reassuring either.

[DarknessB]

Why are you so sure that Yukitaka is mafia and not town/ neutral? The evidence from this game doesn't look promising for them, I agree with you there, but your level of confidence in Yukitaka's alignment is not reassuring either.

Check above -- I decision treed it out in terms of why we should lynch regardless. Short answer is Yuki is either going to be a useless Town (zero contribution) or scum who never gets called out (b/c his playstyle is completely opaque and nonsensical). Bigger risk to us is the scum who can never be lynched (if we don't do it now, no one will ever do it) vs. allowing a zero contribution Town to stay.

[Calix]

Anyway guys -- in all seriousness, this is why we have to policy lynch Yuki. This isn't going to get any easier to understand as the game progresses. Either Yuki is going to be a very weak member of the Town (zero contribution) or a very strong member of the scum team (because no one can understand him / call him out on stuff). I would far rather lose a weak Townie (if we're somehow wrong about Yuki) vs. allow a null read scum to survive for the rest of the game because no one is going to ever able to make a case on him based on his comments (good luck analyzing them). Now or never IMO.

Directed to this post.

I agree with the sentiment. I just don't want scum to bandwagon onto Yuki (even if Yuki is scum themselves, I think they would be extremely likely to be bussed before the scum go "I lynched Yuki, I can't be mafia" later on) and have the entirety of today revolve around a policy lynch.

Consider this, if Yuki is town, we will have wasted an entire day for little gain. In fact, it would be a setback if Yuki is town since the only information we would have is "these people like policy lynches" and "X, Y and Z are possible scum jumping on the chance to mislynch". Similar principle applies for Yuki being mafia - nobody is going to defend them (aside from Toadette, which isn't alignment-indicative for her) so we don't get any inside information on the strategy that scum are using this game.

[Calix]

Check above -- I decision treed it out in terms of why we should lynch regardless. Short answer is Yuki is either going to be a useless Town (zero contribution) or scum who never gets called out (b/c his playstyle is completely opaque and nonsensical). Bigger risk to us is the scum who can never be lynched (if we don't do it now, no one will ever do it) vs. allowing a zero contribution Town to stay.

I am also finding it hard to make any sort of read on your posts outside of NULL, seeing as you are just regurgitating thoughts that you have stated in post-game lobbies.

[DarknessB]

Directed to this post.

I agree with the sentiment. I just don't want scum to bandwagon onto Yuki (even if Yuki is scum themselves, I think they would be extremely likely to be bussed before the scum go "I lynched Yuki, I can't be mafia" later on) and have the entirety of today revolve around a policy lynch.

Consider this, if Yuki is town, we will have wasted an entire day for little gain. In fact, it would be a setback if Yuki is town since the only information we would have is "these people like policy lynches" and "X, Y and Z are possible scum jumping on the chance to mislynch". Similar principle applies for Yuki being mafia - nobody is going to defend them (aside from Toadette, which isn't alignment-indicative for her) so we don't get any inside information on the strategy that scum are using this game.

Keep in mind, the day just started -- I'm fine with discussing the setup, seeing if there are any other suspicious players who should be interrogated, giving our reads on each other, etc. I'm not saying the policy lynch is the absolute best decision for us, but it's certainly up there right now. We can do both -- make good use of the day and policy lynch, if no other suitable player emerges as suspicious.

[MattZed]

Do you think the Witch should reveal themselves?

Considering the changes made to mafia, do you agree or disagree that the optimal move for mafia is to use their heat actions on Night 1?
I don't believe in coaching people who aren't necessarily of my own alignment

Significantly better question:
Which town roles, if any, should use their heat actions tonight?

Given that a mislynch+2 town kills sends us into 5v3v1v1 tomorrow, is a no lynch a better idea?

[Sen]

Yes, it's a thing with me.

Give them a suboptimal strategy. Give an answer that is deliberately scummy to elicit reactions. Take the opportunity to do something with the questions or ignore them.

Damn, you act like I expect you to take them at face value.
That's the thing; you do all sort of scummy stuff and then say that it was your WIFOMASTER 9000 plan all along -and then explain your plan when questioned, making it entirelly useless, and looking even scummier for doing so-, and that seems to be your town mindset -or at least it was last game-. I'll eventually get used to it, but in the meantime you'll see me bitching about how every single thing you do is scummy, and how you should be hanged for it.

Regarding Oni, I'm not voting because he's a zero contribution, but a negative one; a hindrance to the Town.
Policy lynches are shit; they're effectively a wasted chance of lynching scum. That said, the fact that they exist shows that sometimes, the shit option is the best play, if only to secure a better mid and late game.

[Sen]

Given that a mislynch+2 town kills sends us into 5v3v1v1 tomorrow, is a no lynch a better idea?
No-lynch is never a better idea. Are you scum, dude?

[DarknessB]

I am also finding it hard to make any sort of read on your posts outside of NULL, seeing as you are just regurgitating thoughts that you have stated in post-game lobbies.

We're only five pages into the game, mind you, and this is not Suicide Allowed, which ended on page 6. :) I would think it'd be hard to have a good reason on anyone, just yet. At this point, we're just feeling each other's playstyles out and trying to make some educated guesses about who is acting scummy. We need the rest of the playerbase to arrive as well to have a broader discussion. Right now, it's just you, me, and Mikecall chatting.

[MattZed]

No-lynch is never a better idea. Are you scum, dude?

Of course not. Given a choice between a potential critical lynch today and a critical lynch tomorrow, which do you prefer?

[Yukitaka Oni]

The only Reason DarknessB exist is to lynch me. Nothing else useful v)x.o)>!
That make DarknessB is always in my dog list v(x.o(<

[MattZed]

Does Trotsky's heat action protect him the night it is used?

[Mikecall]

We all love to chat, its how we get some real business going.

[DarknessB]

Regarding Oni, I'm not voting because he's a zero contribution, but a negative one; a hindrance to the Town.
Policy lynches are shit; they're effectively a wasted chance of lynching scum. That said, the fact that they exist shows that sometimes, the shit option is the best play, if only to secure a better mid and late game.

I agree with this. It's going to be a bunch of filler posts and a bunch of odd statements that don't tell us anything -- in contrast to reads, thoughts about players that aren't OMGUS, analysis of who might be scum and why (i.e. good town contribution). These will be a net negative in terms of wasting our time trying to decipher in future days. Also, the opaqueness of them is always going to leave Yuki up there as a lynch candidate, which will further cloud things.

If we can come up with a better option today, I'm fine with that, but I think we might as well set the table right now because of how averse people are to a policy lynch sometimes.

[Calix]

I don't believe in coaching people who aren't necessarily of my own alignment

Significantly better question:
Which town roles, if any, should use their heat actions tonight?

Given that a mislynch+2 town kills sends us into 5v3v1v1 tomorrow, is a no lynch a better idea?

Trotsky because the chances of the game being tight by Day 4 (when the vest protection runs out) are low.

Lenin should wait for a near-confirmed town before giving them a night chat.

KGB shouldn't use their heat action tonight - not enough intel at the moment. Same with the Bodyguard role.

No, we're giving up a town-direct kill if we No-Lynch. We are not having another pointless policy discussion about no-lynching.

[DarknessB]

The only Reason DarknessB exist is to lynch me. Nothing else useful v)x.o)>!
That make DarknessB is always in my dog list v(x.o(<

LOL, this is OMGUS. Yuki, if you want to change peoples' opinions about you, how about you give us a read of all the players who have posted and WHY you think they're Town / scum / neutral in plain English based on what they've said, and avoiding the use of odd jargon that doesn't make your points clear?

Honestly, I don't think Yuki is going to do this though, now or ever, which is why I'm pushing for a policy lynch.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I agree with this. It's going to be a bunch of filler posts and a bunch of odd statements that don't tell us anything -- in contrast to reads, thoughts about players that aren't OMGUS, analysis of who might be scum and why (i.e. good town contribution). These will be a net negative in terms of wasting our time trying to decipher in future days. Also, the opaqueness of them is always going to leave Yuki up there as a lynch candidate, which will further cloud things.

If we can come up with a better option today, I'm fine with that, but I think we might as well set the table right now because of how averse people are to a policy lynch sometimes.
You die today or Tomorrow. Nothing to discuss with you v)x.o)> not gonna change the vote until I see you at Gulag

[Calix]

I agree with this. It's going to be a bunch of filler posts and a bunch of odd statements that don't tell us anything -- in contrast to reads, thoughts about players that aren't OMGUS, analysis of who might be scum and why (i.e. good town contribution). These will be a net negative in terms of wasting our time trying to decipher in future days. Also, the opaqueness of them is always going to leave Yuki up there as a lynch candidate, which will further cloud things.

If we can come up with a better option today, I'm fine with that, but I think we might as well set the table right now because of how averse people are to a policy lynch sometimes.

It's verging on necessary since town has few opportunities to direct the night kills.

[DarknessB]

You die today or Tomorrow. Nothing to discuss with you v)x.o)> not gonna change the vote until I see you at Gulag

LOL, in the Motherland, we call that a threat, Yuki. Threatening to kill other players don't make you look more Town-sided. :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL, this is OMGUS. Yuki, if you want to change peoples' opinions about you, how about you give us a read of all the players who have posted and WHY you think they're Town / scum / neutral in plain English based on what they've said, and avoiding the use of odd jargon that doesn't make your points clear?

Honestly, I don't think Yuki is going to do this though, now or ever, which is why I'm pushing for a policy lynch.
Always same evil plan, the (policy lynch) are you running out of you scheme? v)x.o)>?

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL, in the Motherland, we call that a threat, Yuki. Threatening to kill other players don't make you look more Town-sided. :)
No. It's make me a Cheka, KGB, NKVD instead v(x.o(<

[Calix]

That's the thing; you do all sort of scummy stuff and then say that it was your WIFOMASTER 9000 plan all along -and then explain your plan when questioned, making it entirelly useless, and looking even scummier for doing so-, and that seems to be your town mindset -or at least it was last game-. I'll eventually get used to it, but in the meantime you'll see me bitching about how every single thing you do is scummy, and how you should be hanged for it.

You admit to railing on me purely because of my playstyle? >.> And you state that you'll continue doing it despite stating that it 'seems' to be my town play? Why would anyone waste their energy on doing that?

I make short-term plans. If I was making a long-term plan, I wouldn't explain it right off the bat. This is all for Day 1.

[DarknessB]

No. It's make me a Cheka, KGB, NKVD instead v(x.o(<

Do I even dare to ask if Yuki is attempting to soft claim a role that can night kill or is he just incoherently making threats? I'm leaning toward #2.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Do I even dare to ask if Yuki is attempting to soft claim a role that can night kill or is he just incoherently making threats? I'm leaning toward #2.
I don't care!!!!! Just dieeeee ^)x.o)^!!!!!!!! It's suit you!!!!!! You only good at death chat. Not (living) chat v)x.o)>!

[Mikecall]

Do I even dare to ask if Yuki is attempting to soft claim a role that can night kill or is he just incoherently making threats? I'm leaning toward #2.

Nah, I think yuki is hinting us some clues onto what he is trying to soft claim, or anything on that nature, wanting the voters on him dead.

[DarknessB]

I don't care!!!!! Just dieeeee ^)x.o)^!!!!!!!! It's suit you!!!!!! You only good at death chat. Not (living) chat v)x.o)>!

So much for any hope that Yuki would engage in a rational conversation to get suspicion off of him. I tried...

[Calix]

No. It's make me a Cheka, KGB, NKVD instead v(x.o(<

It is unusual for Yuki to mention them all in tandem with each other, but eh.

[DarknessB]

It is unusual for Yuki to mention them all in tandem with each other, but eh.

Most of them aren't even roles in this game -- I think it's just the equivalent of Russian-themed trash talk, lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

So much for any hope that Yuki would engage in a rational conversation to get suspicion off of him. I tried...
I don't care what you claim. I'm getting tired of your evil scheme (lynch policy) same Blyat different game v)x.o)>!!!! This is my game. My rule! So your evil scheme is not allow in here v(x.o(<!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Most of them aren't even roles in this game -- I think it's just the equivalent of Russian-themed trash talk, lol.
Die!!! Dieee !!!! Diiiiieeeeee!!!!!! Blyat v)x.o)>!!!!!
DarknessB

[Yukitaka Oni]

Not going to contribute any Blyat until DarknessB is in the Gulag v)x.o)>!!

[Calix]

Not going to contribute any Blyat until DarknessB is in the Gulag v)x.o)>!!

Oh for the love of God, why do you even sign up?

[DarknessB]

I don't care what you claim. I'm getting tired of your evil scheme (lynch policy) same Blyat different game v)x.o)>!!!! This is my game. My rule! So your evil scheme is not allow in here v(x.o(<!

Okay -- Yuki's defense is that this is "his game" and "his rules" and "evil schemes" are not allowed in here. Can someone check the role list for Jester? :wm:

[Yukitaka Oni]

The fact that the vote stay the same on me and believe in policy lynch meaning that the dog is trying to delay dog hunting for motherland and killing another son of mother Russia. Wake up and start killing all these dogs v)x.o)>! The motherland enlisted a Gulag train! Sign in and start killing the capitalist dog today!!!!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Oh for the love of God, why do you even sign up?
You, journalists. Die day 2. Over

[Yukitaka Oni]

Okay -- Yuki's defense is that this is "his game" and "his rules" and "evil schemes" are not allowed in here. Can someone check the role list for Jester? :wm:
You. Dog, die day 1. Over v)x.o)>!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Okay -- Yuki's defense is that this is "his game" and "his rules" and "evil schemes" are not allowed in here. Can someone check the role list for Jester? :wm:
In Soviet Russia. :wm: is not a god v(x.o(<

[Calix]

The fact that the vote stay the same on me and believe in policy lynch meaning that the dog is trying to delay dog hunting for motherland and killing another son of mother Russia. Wake up and start killing all these dogs v)x.o)>! The motherland enlisted a Gulag train! Sign in and start killing the capitalist dog today!!!!

I assume that Yuki's argument is that policy lynches interrupt scum-hunting.

Yuki, may I ask why you do not try and satisfy the demands of the majority to avert this 'delay' in playing mafia as it was intended to be played?

[DarknessB]

In Soviet Russia. :wm: is not a god v(x.o(<

Any place where :wm: is not a god is a very scary place indeed.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I assume that Yuki's argument is that policy lynches interrupt scum-hunting.

Yuki, may I ask why you do not try and satisfy the demands of the majority to avert this 'delay' in playing mafia as it was intended to be played?
Cyka. Over

[Yukitaka Oni]

Any place where :wm: is not a god is a very scary place indeed.
We're never have the same alignment in any game. So if I am a dog, then you are a town. But I am a town so you are a dog v)x.o)>! That why we must kill each other. Blood for the Russia, Skull for the Motherland v(x.o(<

[Mikecall]

Any place where :wm: is not a god is a very scary place indeed.

Depends on the person who is doing it, could have a few hypersnipers in here o.o. :snorlax:

[Firebringer]

Calix has been looking supper scummy for this Yuki push.

[DarknessB]

We're never have the same alignment in any game. So if I am a dog, then you are a town. But I am a town so you are a dog v)x.o)>! That why we must kill each other. Blood for the Russia, Skull for the Motherland v(x.o(<

I think this is the second game we've played together (first was Camp Mafia) so I'm not really sure where you're going with this argument, lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Calix has been looking supper scummy for this Yuki push.
Lynch Cyka day 2. No need to worry v)x.o)>

[Calix]

Calix has been looking supper scummy for this Yuki push.

I personally thought I was preparing for a lunch myself.

Fancy quoting any of my posts in particular so that I can respond in more depth?

[Calix]

Calix has been looking supper scummy for this Yuki push.

Wait, how have I been pushing for Yuki's lynch the most? I'm trying to get them to contribute.

I'm also the person who has been trying to make the conversation not revolve around Yuki. DarknessB has been pushing harder. According to your logic, they are scum as well. Is this your thought process?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I think this is the second game we've played together (first was Camp Mafia) so I'm not really sure where you're going with this argument, lol.
we are destined to be enemy. No matter how friendly we are v)x.o)>

[Sen]

Of course not. Given a choice between a potential critical lynch today and a critical lynch tomorrow, which do you prefer?
What do you mean by "critical lynch"?

You admit to railing on me purely because of my playstyle? >.> And you state that you'll continue doing it despite stating that it 'seems' to be my town play? Why would anyone waste their energy on doing that?
Not purely because of your playstyle, but mostly because of it, yeah. And yes, I will continue until I get a good read on you. After all, besides a few blessed people, most decent and above players' town play is their de-facto play, regardless of alignment. In other words, you being a scummy townie doesn't mean you won't be a scummy scum.

That said, I'm not making the same mistake as on the previous game, which is why my vote isn't on you*.

*S far, that is. *evil laughter*

[DarknessB]

Wait, how have I been pushing for Yuki's lynch the most? I'm trying to get them to contribute.

I'm also the person who has been trying to make the conversation not revolve around Yuki. DarknessB has been pushing harder. According to your logic, they are scum as well. Is this your thought process?

DarknessB has been pushing hard for a Yuki lynch for all the reasons he has continued to explain. DarknessB also likes to refer to himself in the third person. :)

[Mikecall]

Getting the popcorn ready, Yuki vs Darkness fight.

[DarknessB]

Getting the popcorn ready, Yuki vs Darkness fight.

Our Glorious Town Leader clearly forgot everything that we all learned in Camp Mafia and wants to relive that loss.

[Firebringer]

Wait, how have I been pushing for Yuki's lynch the most? I'm trying to get them to contribute.

I'm also the person who has been trying to make the conversation not revolve around Yuki. DarknessB has been pushing harder. According to your logic, they are scum as well. Is this your thought process?
No, you are scum, because you know Yuki won't participate so it's easy push or place to park your vote. You may not be the most active person pushing it but it doesn't make your vote and reasons look terrible.

You know your pressure won't get you anything, and yet you stick to it.

Your vote and pressure would be better elsewhere bit it's safe on Yuki.

You are scum Calix,

Gg I caught you.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Getting the popcorn ready, Yuki vs Darkness fight.
Good, remember to stay out of this fight v)x.o)>!

[DarknessB]

Good, remember to stay out of this fight v)x.o)>!

LOL, very confident about the 1:1 because he and his buddies can have me night killed.

[Calix]

Not purely because of your playstyle, but mostly because of it, yeah. And yes, I will continue until I get a good read on you. After all, besides a few blessed people, most decent and above players' town play is their de-facto play, regardless of alignment. In other words, you being a scummy townie doesn't mean you won't be a scummy scum.

That said, I'm not making the same mistake as on the previous game, which is why my vote isn't on you*.

*S far, that is. *evil laughter*

"decent and above" - Allow me to clarify this point for you.

I am a shit-tier player who likes typing a lot. This isn't sarcasm.

Hope that clears up that heinous misconception for you.

[Firebringer]

Our Glorious Town Leader clearly forgot everything that we all learned in Camp Mafia and wants to relive that loss.

Clearly you want to waste time. We don't have time to waste efforts on yuki and you should know that.

So far you seem town but seriously get priorities in line cause your motivations so far read: let's waste the day.

[DarknessB]

because you know Yuki won't participate

This is the guy you won't policy lynch? You admit the problem yourself even, lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Our Glorious Town Leader clearly forgot everything that we all learned in Camp Mafia and wants to relive that loss.
That why we are going to to fight again! And again I will raise! Blood for the Russia! Skull for the motherland v)x.o)> prepare yourself DarknessB! And may the Cheka have mercy on your soul >)x.o)v

[Mikecall]

No, you are scum, because you know Yuki won't participate so it's easy push or place to park your vote. You may not be the most active person pushing it but it doesn't make your vote and reasons look terrible.

You know your pressure won't get you anything, and yet you stick to it.

Your vote and pressure would be better elsewhere bit it's safe on Yuki.

You are scum Calix,

Gg I caught you.

I also see a difference in Calix's posts, she doesnt go for the long writing ones which means something is up, another inconsistency I spotted, also targets me always ;).

[DarknessB]

Clearly you want to waste time. We don't have time to waste efforts on yuki and you should know that.

So far you seem town but seriously get priorities in line cause your motivations so far read: let's waste the day.

Our site meta is VERY against policy lynches. If we're going to do it, today is the only option. You seem want to the same experience as we had in the past with a completely unreadable, null slot who won't contribute and who we can't read. That's a recipe for disaster, as it was in Camp Mafia.

[Calix]

No, you are scum, because you know Yuki won't participate so it's easy push or place to park your vote. You may not be the most active person pushing it but it doesn't make your vote and reasons look terrible.

You know your pressure won't get you anything, and yet you stick to it.

Your vote and pressure would be better elsewhere bit it's safe on Yuki.

You are scum Calix,

Gg I caught you.

How do I 'know' that? Where did I ever say that pressuring them would be useless?

I've never tried legitimately pressuring them in this way before, seeing as I've played a grand total of two other games with them. Why would I not try it to see if it would yield a result?

Your reaction-testing is obvious. Please try again.

[Firebringer]

This is the guy you won't policy lynch? You admit the problem yourself even, lol.
I am only going to read tiki by vote analysis as long as yuki seems town by VCA not going to policy yuki.

We can't waste days arguing on policy.

[Yukitaka Oni]

LOL, very confident about the 1:1 because he and his buddies can have me night killed.
Cheka can kill you if I die tonight v)x.o)> come! We have Mosin Nagnant. You have Kar98 Nazi scum. Let's duel! v)x.o)>!

[Firebringer]

How do I 'know' that? Where did I ever say that pressuring them would be useless?

I've never tried legitimately pressuring them in this way before, seeing as I've played a grand total of two other games with them. Why would I not try it to see if it would yield a result?

Your reaction-testing is obvious. Please try again.
You have said as much as players in the previous iteration of this. Don't pretend you didn't say it was wasted effort then.

Why is it different now?

[Sen]

So far you seem town but seriously get priorities in line cause your motivations so far read: let's waste the day.
Why do you think a policy lynch on Oni is a waste?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Cheka can kill you if I die tonight v)x.o)> come! We have Mosin Nagnant. You have Kar98 Nazi scum. Let's duel! v)x.o)>!
Nagant*

[DarknessB]

I am only going to read tiki by vote analysis as long as yuki seems town by VCA not going to policy yuki.

We can't waste days arguing on policy.

Isn't that exactly what you and others said in Camp Mafia? Just answer me this -- if we don't policy lynch Yuki, how in the heck do you propose we read him in subsequent days of the game? The only reason he's posting this much right now (albeit, incoherent posts) is because we lit a fire under him with all the votes. This will go the same way it went in Camp Mafia if Yuki is't lynched -- he'll escape suspicion, everyone will focus on other stuff, and he will be a null read for the rest of the game, who doesn't contribute. Great place for a scum to hide IMO.

[Firebringer]

Why do you think a policy lynch on Oni is a waste?
Because Calix is scum.

Not wasting a day on a coin flip when I am more sure about another read.
You only lynch a null if you have nothing better.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Why do you think a policy lynch on Oni is a waste?
Noob v(x.o(< stop feeding the dog and unvote me. Stay out of this fight or you on lynch list day 3

[Calix]

You have said as much as players in the previous iteration of this. Don't pretend you didn't say it was wasted effort then.

Why is it different now?

Yukitaka actually has votes on them this time. Last game, we had far more suspects for scum.

Why does it concern you so much that Yukitaka is being voted first thing on Day 1? You should know that most trains dissipate early on, so what's with the worry?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Isn't that exactly what you and others said in Camp Mafia? Just answer me this -- if we don't policy lynch Yuki, how in the heck do you propose we read him in subsequent days of the game? The only reason he's posting this much right now (albeit, incoherent posts) is because we lit a fire under him with all the votes. This will go the same way it went in Camp Mafia if Yuki is't lynched -- he'll escape suspicion, everyone will focus on other stuff, and he will be a null read for the rest of the game, who doesn't contribute. Great place for a scum to hide IMO.
Come on! Fight me v)x.o)>! Fight coward!

[Sen]

Because Calix is scum.

Not wasting a day on a coin flip when I am more sure about another read.
You only lynch a null if you have nothing better.
A policy lynch is entirelly different from lynching a null day 1 just to get things moving.

As I see it, in the worst case, we're removing a townie who will be an easy mislynch during the late game. Else, we're either getting rid of someone who will let a day go with a no-lynch (as he did on the previous game) or let the scum decide a lynch, or we get lucky and hit a scum on the very first day.

Why is Calix scum?

[DarknessB]

Because Calix is scum.

Not wasting a day on a coin flip when I am more sure about another read.
You only lynch a null if you have nothing better.

This is terrible logic, Fire -- relinquish your Town Leader sash to MattZed at once. Deputy, take control of your Town please.

To be more serious, explain why you are so sure about Calix. Advocating the (correct) policy lynch isn't a good reason IMO.

[Firebringer]

Isn't that exactly what you and others said in Camp Mafia? Just answer me this -- if we don't policy lynch Yuki, how in the heck do you propose we read him in subsequent days of the game? The only reason he's posting this much right now (albeit, incoherent posts) is because we lit a fire under him with all the votes. This will go the same way it went in Camp Mafia if Yuki is't lynched -- he'll escape suspicion, everyone will focus on other stuff, and he will be a null read for the rest of the game, who doesn't contribute. Great place for a scum to hide IMO.
Our reasons for ignoring Yuki in first place were founded.

You are looking at the bad side of us ignoring them also in late game when we should have looked at him

[Firebringer]

This is terrible logic, Fire -- relinquish your Town Leader sash to MattZed at once. Deputy, take control of your Town please.

To be more serious, explain why you are so sure about Calix. Advocating the (correct) policy lynch isn't a good reason IMO.
No it's because Calix didn't support this last game and now is fine to sheep it. It's a change in attitude that show no interest in taking day 1 serious.

[DarknessB]

Our reasons for ignoring Yuki in first place were founded.

You are looking at the bad side of us ignoring them also in late game when we should have looked at him

He's not going to be any easier to read late game vs. early, and people are opposed enough to a policy lynch in principle that we're never going to get one later in the game and you know it. Once the early push on Yuki died out, no one paid attention to him again throughout the rest of that game.

[Calix]

Our reasons for ignoring Yuki in first place were founded.

You are looking at the bad side of us ignoring them also in late game when we should have looked at him

No, they were not 'founded'. Camp Mafia had room for plenty of mislynches compared to other setups. It's your fault for not using them to make town wise up.

[Firebringer]

A policy lynch is entirelly different from lynching a null day 1 just to get things moving.

As I see it, in the worst case, we're removing a townie who will be an easy mislynch during the late game. Else, we're either getting rid of someone who will let a day go with a no-lynch (as he did on the previous game) or let the scum decide a lynch, or we get lucky and hit a scum on the very first day.

Why is Calix scum?
I rarely advocate a policy lynch because they are generally stupid.

Are you trying to say you have something other than Null on Yuki? If you have anything would love to hear it.

[Mikecall]

He's not going to be any easier to read late game vs. early, and people are opposed enough to a policy lynch in principle that we're never going to get one later in the game and you know it. Once the early push on Yuki died out, no one paid attention to him again throughout the rest of that game.

Then you guys can learn from your mistakes, if the train on yuki dies out, its a good consideration to look into in the late game.

[Yukitaka Oni]

This is terrible logic, Fire -- relinquish your Town Leader sash to MattZed at once. Deputy, take control of your Town please.

To be more serious, explain why you are so sure about Calix. Advocating the (correct) policy lynch isn't a good reason IMO.
Getting tired of your evil scheme lynch policy, because of your scheme. Sheriff/Jailor always die because of you. And you saying that you (learned) something? YOU LEARN NOTHING v)x.o)>!!!!!!

[DarknessB]

No, they were not 'founded'. Camp Mafia had room for plenty of mislynches compared to other setups. It's your fault for not using them to make town wise up.

We had ample margin of error in Camp Mafia and Fire got MattZed lynched on d1 for his alleged host PM slip. That was materially worse than a policy lynch in every way, shape, form given how aggressively poor Yuki was playing in that game (and is playing here). It was only funny because it was a Day 1 MattZed lynch, lol.

[Calix]

No it's because Calix didn't support this last game and now is fine to sheep it. It's a change in attitude that show no interest in taking day 1 serious.

False equivalence. Last game had far less room to mislynch due to how powerful the scum were. Now that they are weakened, we have more breathing room.

[Firebringer]

Consensu so far is get rid of Yuki. This tells me town is either horrible or it's scum motivated.

[Yukitaka Oni]

A policy lynch is entirelly different from lynching a null day 1 just to get things moving.

As I see it, in the worst case, we're removing a townie who will be an easy mislynch during the late game. Else, we're either getting rid of someone who will let a day go with a no-lynch (as he did on the previous game) or let the scum decide a lynch, or we get lucky and hit a scum on the very first day.

Why is Calix scum?
Because you are noob, feeder. v(x.o(<

[DarknessB]

Then you guys can learn from your mistakes, if the train on yuki dies out, its a good consideration to look into in the late game.

Later in the game, people will argue that we can't risk a policy lynch on Yuki because we're not sure he's scum or it might by LYLO / MYLO. It'll be the same outcome as before -- people would rather lynch the people talking / offering some points than the people who aren't. There's simply nothing to go on with Yuki -- he's a chatty ika. Neither are good presences in games.

[Calix]

Consensu so far is get rid of Yuki. This tells me town is either horrible or it's scum motivated.

And you know that Yuki is automatically town because...?

[DarknessB]

Consensu so far is get rid of Yuki. This tells me town is either horrible or it's scum motivated.

Mind you, there's a three man scum team. Perhaps Yuki is your ally and that's why you are adamant about not voting him?

[Yukitaka Oni]

He's not going to be any easier to read late game vs. early, and people are opposed enough to a policy lynch in principle that we're never going to get one later in the game and you know it. Once the early push on Yuki died out, no one paid attention to him again throughout the rest of that game.
Neither they will pay attention on you after day 1. So you are not going anywhere day 1 v)x.o)>

[Sen]

I rarely advocate a policy lynch because they are generally stupid.

Are you trying to say you have something other than Null on Yuki? If you have anything would love to hear it.
I think I've stated multiple times that I'm pushing for a policy lynch.
I'm not putting any effort into reading (>o.o)>s and random "you are noob, dog" spam.
Removing Yuki will, in the worst case, result in he not being a dead vote that will prevent us from lynching scum, that is a fact, not a coin flip.

And I already said policy lynches are shit. If I'm pushing for one, that's because not taking this policy lynch would be even shittier.

[DarknessB]

Neither they will pay attention on you after day 1. So you are not going anywhere day 1 v)x.o)>

I post in great volume and include a lot of detail in my posts. I don't think anyone has ignored me ever in a game. Even when I didn't post in Terminator, Slaol targeted me and then it was GG. I have lots of problems in Mafia, but being ignored is not one of them. :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

And you know that Yuki is automatically town because...?
Cyka. It's obvious. It's a confirmed sheriff/Jailor! Dumb Cyka is always a dumb Cyka v)x.o)>

[DarknessB]

I think I've stated multiple times that I'm pushing for a policy lynch.
I'm not putting any effort into reading (>o.o)>s and random "you are noob, dog" spam.
Removing Yuki will, in the worst case, result in he not being a dead vote that will prevent us from lynching scum, that is a fact, not a coin flip.

And I already said policy lynches are shit. If I'm pushing for one, that's because not taking this policy lynch would be even shittier.

A spontaneous burst of common sense from this Town -- thank you. If mortal enemies Sen and Calix can agree on the Yuki lynch as well as mortal enemies DarknessB and MattZed, it's gotta be the right call.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Mind you, there's a three man scum team. Perhaps Yuki is your ally and that's why you are adamant about not voting him?
I never come to America you heard me v)x.o)> not even nuke the whole motherland will make me immigrate to capitalist dog country v)x.o)> I'm a communist you heard me v)x.o)>!!!!!

[Yukitaka Oni]

A spontaneous burst of common sense from this Town -- thank you. If mortal enemies Sen and Calix can agree on the Yuki lynch as well as mortal enemies DarknessB and MattZed, it's gotta be the right call.
Not after you die tonight first. Then I regret nothing v)x.o)>

[DarknessB]

I never come to America you heard me v)x.o)> not even nuke the whole motherland will make me immigrate to capitalist dog country v)x.o)> I'm a communist you heard me v)x.o)>!!!!!

<sarcasm>Well, I'm convinced -- Yuki must be Town with such a riveting, persuasive defense.</sarcasm>

[Calix]

A spontaneous burst of common sense from this Town -- thank you. If mortal enemies Sen and Calix can agree on the Yuki lynch as well as mortal enemies DarknessB and MattZed, it's gotta be the right call.

Again with the easy town/ scum reads.

I personally don't think Sen's theory talk is worthy of town points. That's just his personality and opinions from outside the game shining through. While valid in their own right, they don't warrant a town read as of now.

[DarknessB]

Not after you die tonight first. Then I regret nothing v)x.o)>

No one else seems to care that Yuki is threatening to have me night killed? By what means do you have to night kill, Yuki?

[DarknessB]

Again with the easy town/ scum reads.

I personally don't think Sen's theory talk is worthy of town points. That's just his personality and opinions from outside the game shining through. While valid in their own right, they don't warrant a town read as of now.

I haven't developed my opinion on Sen's alignment yet, but I agree with him on this particular point. Policy lynches are often bad calls, but do we really have a choice? ISO Yuki's posts and honestly tell me we are going to get anything out of him this game? He's either the worst Town ever or the best scum (in the sense that no one could possibly decipher his posts and go after him). Either way, it's a good lynch to make today.

[Yukitaka Oni]

<sarcasm>Well, I'm convinced -- Yuki must be Town with such a riveting, persuasive defense.</sarcasm>
The more you run away from this fight. The more you prove yourself a Capitalist dog, hiding in the coroner v)x.o)>!

[Yukitaka Oni]

No one else seems to care that Yuki is threatening to have me night killed? By what means do you have to night kill, Yuki?
Night kill scum is for the weak, lynch you today is the prove of power v)x.o)>

[DarknessB]

The more you run away from this fight. The more you prove yourself a Capitalist dog, hiding in the coroner v)x.o)>!

Who told you I was a Coroner? Well, my role got revealed. GG guys.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Calix lynch day 2
Noob Sen. I use Zed to lynch him day 3
Lynch list updated

[Calix]

I haven't developed my opinion on Sen's alignment yet, but I agree with him on this particular point. Policy lynches are often bad calls, but do we really have a choice? ISO Yuki's posts and honestly tell me we are going to get anything out of him this game? He's either the worst Town ever or the best scum (in the sense that no one could possibly decipher his posts and go after him). Either way, it's a good lynch to make today.

Just reread your quote and realised that you could have also been talking generally. I interpreted as you meaning 'Town' as in 'Sen is a smart Town member'. If you did mean that, then please clarify.

[DarknessB]

Calix lynch day 2
Noob Sen. I use Zed to lynch him day 3
Lynch list updated

Here's the plan, Yuki. I'm the Marshall, I'm going to activate. Since you're the Judge, you call court and then lynch all three of us one after the other. Sound good?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Who told you I was a Coroner? Well, my role got revealed. GG guys.
Gg, confirmed Deciver of fraud. Hiding people house
DarknessB
Finish him, doc on me

[DarknessB]

Just reread your quote and realised that you could have also been talking generally. I interpreted as you meaning 'Town' as in 'Sen is a smart Town member'. If you did mean that, then please clarify.

I was speaking generally -- I refer to us collectively as the Town, as in Town discussion during the day. I haven't formed a conclusion on whether Sen is Town or not. Seem to be somewhat Town-sided, at least thus far, but it's very early.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Here's the plan, Yuki. I'm the Marshall, I'm going to activate. Since you're the Judge, you call court and then lynch all three of us one after the other. Sound good?
Do it! V)x.o)>!!!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Do it! V)x.o)>!!!
Tell Suntax to turn on the Phonix Wright music as well v)x.o)>

[Mikecall]

You could all visit me, I know we all need to have a party here, who wants to come ;).

[DarknessB]

Gg, confirmed Deciver of fraud. Hiding people house
DarknessB
Finish him, doc on me

You realize you get one vote, right? You've now voted me three times over and over and over again. Trust me, everyone realizes you've honed in on me. :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

You realize you get one vote, right? You've now voted me three times over and over and over again. Trust me, everyone realizes you've honed in on me. :)
Calix and noob vote on me because one is Cyka, the other is a noob, feeder. And you promised them power, money. It's suit 3 Mafia dog. That why other town too afraid to fight them v)x.o)>

[Calix]

Wagonomics coming atcha

Calix (2 [L-5]):
Firebringer, Mikecall
Yukitaka Oni (4 [L-3]):
MattZed, DarknessB, Sen, Calix
DarknessB (1 [L-6]):
Yukitaka Oni

These votes are good in terms of density; they're not all spread out over six different people.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Get out of here SuperJack! Get out of here and post something stalker! You hide too long v)x.o)>!

[Yukitaka Oni]

Wagonomics coming atcha

Calix (2 [L-5]):
Firebringer, Mikecall
Yukitaka Oni (4 [L-3]):
MattZed, DarknessB, Sen, Calix
DarknessB (1 [L-6]):
Yukitaka Oni

These votes are good in terms of density; they're not all spread out over six different people.
These votes are good in terms of capitalist dog, they're not know we spread out over six evil scheme
Cyka scheme spotted. Scum read Confirmed. Die day 2 confirmed

[DarknessB]

These votes are good in terms of capitalist dog, they're not know we spread out over six evil scheme
Cyka scheme spotted. Scum read Confirmed. Die day 2 confirmed

Did you basically copy Calix's argument and just add in themed words? lol

[Calix]

These votes are good in terms of capitalist dog, they're not know we spread out over six evil scheme
Cyka scheme spotted. Scum read Confirmed. Die day 2 confirmed

An actual read. One that might be copied from Firebringer, but it's a start. Progress!

Fancy giving town your thoughts on MattZed and Mikecall?

[Mikecall]

An actual read. One that might be copied from Firebringer, but it's a start. Progress!

Fancy giving town your thoughts on MattZed and Mikecall?

You mean Mikezed and Mattcall?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Did you basically copy Calix's argument and just add in themed words? lol
So basically you going to copy paste evil scheme lynch policy and do that all the game to remove me day 1?

[DarknessB]

By the way, who wants to make a wager on Toadette aggressively defending Yuki when she arrives to post? I'd be shocked and pleased if that wasn't the case, but I've got to be realistic.

[Thornholt]

Is this the new game or still the last one?!?!

[DarknessB]

Is this the new game or still the last one?!?!

Welcome to the party, Comrade. This is the new game -- the COLDER War.

[Mikecall]

Thornholt

Can you give your reads on the people who have posted?
Who do you think is evil and why

Just a few questions i asked before. :)

[Calix]

Is this the new game or still the last one?!?!

It's a remake of the last game.

So yeah, welcome abroad. Please give your thoughts on the chat so far.

[Yukitaka Oni]

By the way, who wants to make a wager on Toadette aggressively defending Yuki when she arrives to post? I'd be shocked and pleased if that wasn't the case, but I've got to be realistic.
By the way. Who want to vote Yuki every game day 1 because I hate how the mod never mod kill Yuki day 1 when she arrives. I'd be shocked and pleased if I can run away from this fight if that is always happen in this case, but I've got to keep dreaming

[DarknessB]

By the way. Who want to vote Yuki every game day 1 because I hate how the mod never mod kill Yuki day 1 when she arrives. I'd be shocked and pleased if I can run away from this fight if that is always happen in this case, but I've got to keep dreaming

Frog (your scum ally) wanted you modkilled in Camp Mafia. I wanted you replaced, lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

By the way. Who want to vote Yuki every game day 1 because I hate how the mod never mod kill Yuki day 1 when she arrives. I'd be shocked and pleased if I can run away from this fight if that is always happen in this case, but I've got to keep dreaming
Keep dreaming in the Gulag, DarknessB

[Yukitaka Oni]

Frog (your scum ally) wanted you modkilled in Camp Mafia. I wanted you replaced, lol.
Keep dreaming

[Calix]

By the way. Who want to vote Yuki every game day 1 because I hate how the mod never mod kill Yuki day 1 when she arrives. I'd be shocked and pleased if I can run away from this fight if that is always happen in this case, but I've got to keep dreaming

"every game"

You've been put under legitimate pressure a grand total of two times during your time here. Melodrama, I sense it. Please grow a thicker skin.

[Mikecall]

Welcome to the party, Comrade. This is the new game -- the COLDER War.

Will become the Coldest War if it fails again xD.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Keep dreaming
AND DON'T WAKE UP BECAUSE DEAD MAN DOESN'T SPEAK!!!! YES WALKING DEAD ALLOW BUT DOESN'T SPEAK v)x.o)>!!!!!!

[DarknessB]

"every game"

You've been put under legitimate pressure a grand total of two times during your time here. Melodrama, I sense it. Please grow a thicker skin.

It's also largely because of what happened in that first game that I am very suspicious of anyone ever holding Yuki accountable. This is ika of another stripe -- and I'm trying to make a stand against it. Yuki has logged enough time playing FM that he should understand what is effective communication and what isn't -- this isn't. It's devolved into a bunch of insults.

[DarknessB]

Will become the Coldest War if it fails again xD.

We can only hope, right? Suntax, can you please Town confirm me? :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

"every game"

You've been put under legitimate pressure a grand total of two times during your time here. Melodrama, I sense it. Please grow a thicker skin.
If you have a thicker butt I might consider it

[Calix]

Will become the Coldest War if it fails again xD.

Mikecall, feel free to tailor the relevance of your comments to the matters at hand, if you would be so kind :)

[Yukitaka Oni]

It's also largely because of what happened in that first game that I am very suspicious of anyone ever holding Yuki accountable. This is ika of another stripe -- and I'm trying to make a stand against it. Yuki has logged enough time playing FM that he should understand what is effective communication and what isn't -- this isn't. It's devolved into a bunch of insults.
Are you running away again v)x.o)>?

[DarknessB]

Are you running away again v)x.o)>?

Yes, that's exactly why I keep posting to tell people to lynch you. Running away. :wm:

[Yukitaka Oni]

Yes, that's exactly why I keep posting to tell people to lynch you. Running away. :wm:
Capitalist dog confirmed, we finish the fight. No more popcorn, the lynch discussion is confirmed
DarknessB

[Mikecall]

Mikecall, feel free to tailor the relevance of your comments to the matters at hand, if you would be so kind :)

Alright, the relevence of my comments are both a bit of beginning troll with the addition of some scum hunting, thats why i changed my vote to Thornholt :).

[Mikecall]

But since I dont know if he noticed it, I wanted to find out what his thoughts on the game is. Maybe get some hints on what type of playstyle hes playing.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I ain't mad with Mattzed since I agree to let Frog kill him, so I allow him to revenge me. Only Calix and Sen is needed to get out of my game

[Calix]

Alright, the relevence of my comments are both a bit of beginning troll with the addition of some scum hunting, thats why i changed my vote to Thornholt :).

I'll help you by asking something. DarknessB can respond as well; they know Firebringer better than I do.

Do you think that Firebringer is defending a mafia buddy or do you think that he is he genuinely opposed to this policy lynch?

[DarknessB]

Capitalist dog confirmed, we finish the fight. No more popcorn, the lynch discussion is confirmed
DarknessB

DarknessB has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!

DarknessB (7 [L-0]) Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni, Yukitaka Oni

[Mikecall]

Playing a more active style of posting, unlike previous games before hand.

[Sen]

It's also largely because of what happened in that first game that I am very suspicious of anyone ever holding Yuki accountable. This is ika of another stripe -- and I'm trying to make a stand against it. Yuki has logged enough time playing FM that he should understand what is effective communication and what isn't -- this isn't. It's devolved into a bunch of insults.
This. This a thousand times.
If you allow spam and personal insults to go unpunished over and over again, you are saying that it is a valid playstyle and invite for it to continue and be emulated by others.

I wasn't part of the game you mentioned, but if your scumbuddies asking for you to get modkilled isn't an indicator of your playstyle being shit, I don't know what is.


But since I dont know if he noticed it, I wanted to find out what his thoughts on the game is. Maybe get some hints on what type of playstyle hes playing.
In a different game, he said he was going AFK before you asked him those questions. Said he'd be back in 45 or so.

[DarknessB]

Playing a more active style of posting, unlike previous games before hand.

I wasn't in the last game when you were getting strung up, but you seem pretty even keel this game.

[Suntax]

to whoever asked
Yes Trotsky is defended on heat action

[Calix]

This. This a thousand times.
If you allow spam and personal insults to go unpunished over and over again, you are saying that it is a valid playstyle and invite for it to continue and be emulated by others.

I wasn't part of the game you mentioned, but if your scumbuddies asking for you to get modkilled isn't an indicator of your playstyle being shit, I don't know what is.


In a different game, he said he was going AFK before you asked him those questions. Said he'd be back in 45 or so.

I'll give a brief summary. Yuki was mafia in Camp Mafia. They acted like a newbie, amping up this playstyle to 12. DarknessB, the Cop, was one of the few who found this scummy and got scumread for thinking this. Yuki then had to replace out, got replaced in with ika. Mafia won because nobody lynched him and the town failed hardcore at town-reading each other. The usual.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I want the moment when I return. DarknessB is already hang above the tree in the middle city of Stalingard and a Cheka office jail Calix tonight plus comrade Stalin pay a visit to me and discuss about the plan to kill Nixon tonight. Now proceed to the plan, tomorrow I want Fidel Castro to discuss about his plan against the capitalist dog. See the motherland tomorrow

[DarknessB]

I'll help you by asking something. DarknessB can respond as well; they know Firebringer better than I do.

Do you think that Firebringer is defending a mafia buddy or do you think that he is he genuinely opposed to this policy lynch?

Fire does seem unusually fixated on you -- he might be tunneling for some reason. He basically has not given a single read on anyone but you, and is ignoring the obvious problem with not holding Yuki accountable.

[Sen]

Do you think that Firebringer is defending a mafia buddy or do you think that he is he genuinely opposed to this policy lynch?
I'm gonna jump here and add that there's a third option that is as common as overlooked in Mafia games; scum trying to buddy with players whose strategy is pretty much "OMGUS vote people, and side with those who defend me". It's an equally easy and effective way to get a free sheep for the rest of the game.

[Mikecall]

I'll help you by asking something. DarknessB can respond as well; they know Firebringer better than I do.

Do you think that Firebringer is defending a mafia buddy or do you think that he is he genuinely opposed to this policy lynch?

Its a good thing to look into, Firebringer always wanted to vote you, even saying my vote on you in the first place was proven, at the moment, I dont have a clear visualisation if firebringer is buddied with someone from the way he tries to justify his posts.

For the policy lynch, I would say its only beneficial if the players posting techniques are questionable. So for example, If you guys did a policy lynch on me and I started to wonder why you did a policy lynch on me, it would test that individual to see if what they say is questionable. On Firebringers part, I would say hes geneally hates policy lynches in general.

So for my conclusion, Firebringer might be defending a mafia buddy, which gives me the question, do you guys think Firebringer and Yuki could be mafia teammates?

[Mikecall]

I wasn't in the last game when you were getting strung up, but you seem pretty even keel this game.

Oh that other game, I will always remember that, 10 pages of posts, if it is the one I am thinking off.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I want the moment when I return. DarknessB is already hang above the tree in the middle city of Stalingard and a Cheka office jail Calix tonight plus comrade Stalin pay a visit to me and discuss about the plan to kill Nixon tonight. Now proceed to the plan, tomorrow I want Fidel Castro to discuss about his plan against the capitalist dog. See the motherland tomorrow
Any traitor action today against the motherland will be lynch without warning. Yuki out

[Mikecall]

In a different game, he said he was going AFK before you asked him those questions. Said he'd be back in 45 or so.

Ah alright.

[Calix]

I'm gonna jump here and add that there's a third option that is as common as overlooked in Mafia games; scum trying to buddy with players whose strategy is pretty much "OMGUS vote people, and side with those who defend me". It's an equally easy and effective way to get a free sheep for the rest of the game.

Reposting for good point being made.

[DarknessB]

Its a good thing to look into, Firebringer always wanted to vote you, even saying my vote on you in the first place was proven, at the moment, I dont have a clear visualisation if firebringer is buddied with someone from the way he tries to justify his posts.

For the policy lynch, I would say its only beneficial if the players posting techniques are questionable. So for example, If you guys did a policy lynch on me and I started to wonder why you did a policy lynch on me, it would test that individual to see if what they say is questionable. On Firebringers part, I would say hes geneally hates policy lynches in general.

So for my conclusion, Firebringer might be defending a mafia buddy, which gives me the question, do you guys think Firebringer and Yuki could be mafia teammates?

I think that could be the case. He seems very intent on focusing on Calix, with the only case being: well, she jumped on the Yuki wagon. Yeah, so did four other people and Fire hasn't gone after any of us. He also started the game by voting on Calix so it seems like he intended to pressure her, perhaps because she is a more active Town player and he finds that threatening. I note that in PM when Fire, Stealth, and me were the scum, we got rid of the smart players fast because there is nothing more dangerous than a smart player who can figure out who you are. In contrast, off-topic and / or inactive players are not dangerous at all.

[Calix]

Its a good thing to look into, Firebringer always wanted to vote you, even saying my vote on you in the first place was proven, at the moment, I dont have a clear visualisation if firebringer is buddied with someone from the way he tries to justify his posts.

For the policy lynch, I would say its only beneficial if the players posting techniques are questionable. So for example, If you guys did a policy lynch on me and I started to wonder why you did a policy lynch on me, it would test that individual to see if what they say is questionable. On Firebringers part, I would say hes geneally hates policy lynches in general.

So for my conclusion, Firebringer might be defending a mafia buddy, which gives me the question, do you guys think Firebringer and Yuki could be mafia teammates?

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. I don't know if Firebringer would be that obvious with defending a team mate, however, hence my doubts. It's not generally his style, but maybe he thinks that he can get away with it using his previously established beliefs about policy lynches. My doubts are overshadowed by the scummy vibes that I get from his posts, although since he is calling me confirmed scum, I am biased here.

[Rachyl]

so the game has started?

[DarknessB]

so the game has started?

Uh, Rachyl, I believe you are a reserve for this game. You should probably not post and PM Suntax.

[Mikecall]

Yeah, that was what I was thinking. I don't know if Firebringer would be that obvious with defending a team mate, however, hence my doubts. It's not generally his style, but maybe he thinks that he can get away with it using his previously established beliefs about policy lynches. My doubts are overshadowed by the scummy vibes that I get from his posts, although since he is calling me confirmed scum, I am biased here.

I think hes doing it through bias, nobody can be 100% confirmed scum unless there is a role which can pretty much confirm the alignment and the role they would be. But you would have to wait a day before investigative roles can find out that specific information.