Do you know how to Meta players?

[RLVG]

I'm making this new thread to spark a new discussion, namely Meta about the players here.

The meta I'm talking about is definitive scum / town reads, allegience, role, et cetera.



How accurate is this meta of the players in mind?
What is it they're doing that you can read of?
What do you do in advantage of this meta information?



Of course, don't make it a guessing game - do mention the player's name. Just don't make it insulty. :cheesy:

Bonus points - refer to certain posts / games. Don't include anything ongoing.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Helz
There you go

[TheDarkestLight]

So basically you just want to have everyone post their metas on every player they can think of following those guidelines in one big post?

[SuperJack]

Policy Lynch

Ika

[DarknessB]

Policy Lynch

Ika

This. Please, this. How many times does it have to happen before people will change the meta? Glitch, Haloden, Camp Mafia, etc.

[DarknessB]

So basically you just want to have everyone post their metas on every player they can think of following those guidelines in one big post?

Here's some meta on TDL -- he's a big fan of the Firebringer.

[TheDarkestLight]

Here's some meta on TDL -- he's a big fan of the Firebringer.

Oh yeah, totally.

I'm interested to hear what people have meta-wise on me though. Anything else?

[DarknessB]

Oh yeah, totally.

I'm interested to hear what people have meta-wise on me though. Anything else?

You're getting repped for this, lol.

[Orpz]

Meta is useless

[TheDarkestLight]

Meta is useless

It's amusing to hear what other people "have on me".

You've said things about my play in the past.

[DarknessB]

It's amusing to hear what other people "have on me".

You've said things about my play in the past.

A couple random ones: You play very serious / straight man in games. MattZed has yet to find a lynch train he didn't want to hop on. DarknessB sucks at playing as scum. Stealth is becoming the new ika as of late. Helz is really good at being read as strong Town even if he's scum. ika has a secondary objective of posting less times than the number of days that a game lasts. Frog likes coming up with elaborate theories / gambits. RLVG plays very neutrally regardless of alignment. Sometimes, SuperJack seems to like to irk / tweak people in game regardless of alignment.

[Zekrom2802]

A couple random ones: You play very serious / straight man in games. MattZed has yet to find a lynch train he didn't want to hop on. DarknessB sucks at playing as scum. Stealth is becoming the new ika as of late. Helz is really good at being read as strong Town even if he's scum. ika has a secondary objective of posting less times than the number of days that a game lasts. Frog likes coming up with elaborate theories / gambits. RLVG plays very neutrally regardless of alignment. Sometimes, SuperJack seems to like to irk / tweak people in game regardless of alignment.

Interesting.

[DarknessB]

Interesting.

To be fair, all of those reads are painfully obvious and undoubtedly shared by many more people than just me. There's no secret sauce in there whatsoever -- just conclusions that you could easily reach when playing with anyone in that post.

[Zekrom2802]

To be fair, all of those reads are painfully obvious and undoubtedly shared by many more people than just me. There's no secret sauce in there whatsoever -- just conclusions that you could easily reach when playing with anyone in that post.

I actually just wanted to say something in this thread :D Half of them are either meant to be funny (MattZed) or as you said, painfully obvious (ika). Didn't play with Helz and TDL yet tho.

[DarknessB]

I actually just wanted to say something in this thread :D Half of them are either meant to be funny (MattZed) or as you said, painfully obvious (ika). Didn't play with Helz and TDL yet tho.

The MattZed point is half joke, half reality. He's very aggressive with jumping on lynch trains early in order to get information. He'd probably call them "pressure trains" instead, but sometimes it can come off over-aggressive (scum indicator?) or at the very least, it can get people mad at him, which could result in an early lynch of him on the other end. It's definitely an interesting strategy, and one that can push forward the discussion from the Town's perspective when executed well. When not executed well, it can result in those infamous Day 1 lynches of him, lol.

[Frog]

A couple random ones: You play very serious / straight man in games. MattZed has yet to find a lynch train he didn't want to hop on. DarknessB sucks at playing as scum. Stealth is becoming the new ika as of late. Helz is really good at being read as strong Town even if he's scum. ika has a secondary objective of posting less times than the number of days that a game lasts. Frog likes coming up with elaborate theories / gambits. RLVG plays very neutrally regardless of alignment. Sometimes, SuperJack seems to like to irk / tweak people in game regardless of alignment.

You investigated me but now you're culted, thus the public reveal. The truth is we have no more Town invests, and Zekrom who jumps on your train is also cult.

Hidden note:
(I'm the cult leader bussing you. Zekrom has been framed.)

[DarknessB]

You investigated me but now you're culted, thus the public reveal. The truth is we have no more Town invests, and Zekrom who jumps on your train is also cult.

Hidden note:
(I'm the cult leader bussing you. Zekrom has been framed.)

I'm ok being Culted -- that's a far more interesting role to play, lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

A couple random ones: You play very serious / straight man in games. MattZed has yet to find a lynch train he didn't want to hop on. DarknessB sucks at playing as scum. Stealth is becoming the new ika as of late. Helz is really good at being read as strong Town even if he's scum. ika has a secondary objective of posting less times than the number of days that a game lasts. Frog likes coming up with elaborate theories / gambits. RLVG plays very neutrally regardless of alignment. Sometimes, SuperJack seems to like to irk / tweak people in game regardless of alignment.
No yuki >)o.o)>?

[DarknessB]

No yuki >)o.o)>?

If you think Yuki should be replaced in an S-FM, he's probably scum. In such cases, he needs to be Cheka-ed.

[Firebringer]

It's amusing to hear what other people "have on me".

You've said things about my play in the past.

Your play is too good. Thats why I always suspect you are scum.

[AppleyNO]

I've noticed that the site now uses terms like ISO like it backs up their arguments (or hide their lack of argument).

[AppleyNO]

Or that the new town meta is to not be town. How confusing. Could someone run down current site meta for me cause omg?

[Cryptonic]

I don't meta players, tbh. It's hard to lynch someone using meta, cause it's such a weak argument. Only time it becomes useful if when you use your night actions; but I just use my instinct for night actions... Whenever I think about them too hard, I screw up.

[powerofdeath]

I used to be able to meta people well around 2014, although Im not as active today, I can still meta a few people.

Also, you can't really convince people to lynch someone because you said t was meta. I can use meta to help myself to find why the following players are scum or town etc.

[Yayap]

Meta for me is more of a level system...


Level 1: person is straight and has no double meanings.. what he says is what he means.

Level 2: person lies all the time.. what he says doesn't carry much weight.

Level 3: person lies but has a purpose to his lies.. like claiming false feedback. (claiming sheriff reads on someone to sway sheep)

Level 4: person is info hoarder.. the people who don't share what they really think, but tend to lead others into a train of thought for their own purposes. (usually dumping their findings all at once when they think they have found scum instead of progressive)

Level 5: decoy person.. someone who will convey info that someone else wants to share but is a high priority target for scum. Like a citizen claiming to be jailor to relay info the jailor told him.

Level 6: decoy lvl2 person.. similar to Level 5 but without direct contact with the other person. This is mostly analyzers who read between the lines and catch on to something that someone is trying to silently leak out without out most people seeing it.

Level 7: double/triple/etc meaning person (cpt WIFOM).. someone who posts one thing that can mean multiple things depending on how it is read.


When I take meta into account, I usually place a player into one of those levels and also determine what level he can read. For example, if someone knows how to reads a lvl5 decoy person, claims a role that I know can't fit in, I won't press the issue even though I know he lied, because he is most likely to be covering/backing up someone else (to which I usually go and find). But if someone of a lvl 1 says the same thing, I might go after him like no tomorrow.



At this point in time, I have loss touch with the current player base and it would take me 2-3 game days to fit players into those categories if I were to play again.

[Yukitaka Oni]

If you think Yuki should be replaced in an S-FM, he's probably scum. In such cases, he needs to be Cheka-ed.
Some unknown mod change my picture into a cute girl so am confirmed innocent >)o.o)>

[Brendan]

Some unknown mod change my picture into a cute girl so am confirmed innocent >)o.o)>

it's true

[Firebringer]

Or that the new town meta is to not be town. How confusing. Could someone run down current site meta for me cause omg?

This isn't really true, their are a few players whose meta is specifically "If I look anti town, I am actually town" but its not true for all players. I can see how games are starting to become like this though.

Some players like:
Stealthbomber
Me (I think to certain degree)
Ika
RLVG
Sekov
Numbertwo (to certain extent)

Can appear extremely anti town as a town member. I think their is still stuff within posts that are town tells though, some things are personality.

I think we have to kind of change our view of what is anti town behavior almost and reshape that, cause it is a really broad thing.

[Stealthbomber16]

You forgot Mikecall. Mikecall always acts scummy.

[Stealthbomber16]

I don't meta players, tbh. It's hard to lynch someone using meta, cause it's such a weak argument. Only time it becomes useful if when you use your night actions; but I just use my instinct for night actions... Whenever I think about them too hard, I screw up.

Biomed Industries 2.0

I analyzed 3 posts and got Mikecall lynched by meta power!

[Firebringer]

Biomed Industries 2.0

I analyzed 3 posts and got Mikecall lynched by meta power!

Didn't you complete recruit me based on my ability to COM read players? I thought that was hilarious.

[Stealthbomber16]

Didn't you complete recruit me based on my ability to COM read players? I thought that was hilarious.

That ability helps a lot in terms of acting like your target.

[yzb25]

Meta for me is more of a level system...


Level 1: person is straight and has no double meanings.. what he says is what he means.

Level 2: person lies all the time.. what he says doesn't carry much weight.

Level 3: person lies but has a purpose to his lies.. like claiming false feedback. (claiming sheriff reads on someone to sway sheep)

Level 4: person is info hoarder.. the people who don't share what they really think, but tend to lead others into a train of thought for their own purposes. (usually dumping their findings all at once when they think they have found scum instead of progressive)

Level 5: decoy person.. someone who will convey info that someone else wants to share but is a high priority target for scum. Like a citizen claiming to be jailor to relay info the jailor told him.

Level 6: decoy lvl2 person.. similar to Level 5 but without direct contact with the other person. This is mostly analyzers who read between the lines and catch on to something that someone is trying to silently leak out without out most people seeing it.

Level 7: double/triple/etc meaning person (cpt WIFOM).. someone who posts one thing that can mean multiple things depending on how it is read.


When I take meta into account, I usually place a player into one of those levels and also determine what level he can read. For example, if someone knows how to reads a lvl5 decoy person, claims a role that I know can't fit in, I won't press the issue even though I know he lied, because he is most likely to be covering/backing up someone else (to which I usually go and find). But if someone of a lvl 1 says the same thing, I might go after him like no tomorrow.



At this point in time, I have loss touch with the current player base and it would take me 2-3 game days to fit players into those categories if I were to play again.

Maybe I'm complete shit, but I always feel like I can never really trust in my interpretation of how people have talked/acted and truly believe that my interpretation is the correct interpretation - That they actually are a level 3 as opposed to a level 2, or they actually are a level 1 as opposed to a level 4. God, this may sound somewhat creepy, but it applies to real life as well.

If I ever think into someone properly, I always end up with 3 or 4 crazy theories that all sound sane to me, but someone else would probably take one glance at and exclaim "what a bunch of bullshit!". Again, maybe everyone else simply doesn't think up deluded theories. I honestly don't know how common this experience is, but it's constantly in the back of my mind. And this internal struggle is always taking place. I'm considering just going with the feels more rather than trying to logic-train my reads, but then I lose that feeling of control over what I'm doing, and I'm just completely giving myself over to faith in things that have no reason or rationale behind them, which feels unsettling to me.

[DarknessB]

Maybe I'm complete shit, but I always feel like I can never really trust in my interpretation of how people have talked/acted and truly believe that my interpretation is the correct interpretation - That they actually are a level 3 as opposed to a level 2, or they actually are a level 1 as opposed to a level 4. God, this may sound somewhat creepy, but it applies to real life as well.

If I ever think into someone properly, I always end up with 3 or 4 crazy theories that all sound sane to me, but someone else would probably take one glance at and exclaim "what a bunch of bullshit!". Again, maybe everyone else simply doesn't think up deluded theories. I honestly don't know how common this experience is, but it's constantly in the back of my mind. And this internal struggle is always taking place. I'm considering just going with the feels more rather than trying to logic-train my reads, but then I lose that feeling of control over what I'm doing, and I'm just completely giving myself over to faith in things that have no reason or rationale behind them, which feels unsettling to me.

The more you play with the same people, the better you get an idea of each person's typical playstyle. I think having past data points on someone can be very informative in terms of your expectations for them in a particular game and how deviations from that might be an indication that someone is more likely Town or scum. Obviously, people can surprise you, but especially after you develop a strategy, you tend to use it as a baseline and deviate based on your alignment in a particular game.

Going even further, the best players are often those who don't adjust their strategy at all based on alignment and are able to come off / justify their actions as Town-sided regardless of whether they're actually Town. Those are the hardest players to read in my mind because you're really grasping for any scum slip at all, or else you're going to need some smoking gun night feedback on them.

[yzb25]

The more you play with the same people, the better you get an idea of each person's typical playstyle. I think having past data points on someone can be very informative in terms of your expectations for them in a particular game and how deviations from that might be an indication that someone is more likely Town or scum. Obviously, people can surprise you, but especially after you develop a strategy, you tend to use it as a baseline and deviate based on your alignment in a particular game.


Yeah! You're right! Soon I'll see through you like shiny glass. Very shiny glass.


Going even further, the best players are often those who don't adjust their strategy at all based on alignment and are able to come off / justify their actions as Town-sided regardless of whether they're actually Town. Those are the hardest players to read in my mind because you're really grasping for any scum slip at all, or else you're going to need some smoking gun night feedback on them.

I can imagine. But this is what pisses me off about lurkers - if they lurk constantly, there's nothing different about them when they're scum X(. Y'all seem a little too nice and courteous to say it exactly how it is. Hence I feel, as a spoilt teenage brat, I can approach this issue more directly:

#banIka2k15. It's a fucking talking game. There's no point in playing if you don't talk, mug.

[SuperJack]

To right old chap! We English will no longer stand for this Nancy. Bollocks to the tosser!

[Funce]

Heh, Firebringer buddies hard when he's scum.
Helz makes more traps than logically plausible when scum

That's all I got.

[DarknessB]

More often than not, it's the quiet(er) ones (who are Mafia / scum). It's far more difficult to be a loud / overactive scum (though Frog and Helz are very good at this). Otherwise, the meta here seems to be that scum often take a step into the background because they would prefer not to risk saying too much, which might result in too much attention on them or them making a scum slip by accident / contradicting themselves. Also, we collectively don't call out people who are being overly quiet on this site (the lurker issue in part) so people in the background often get a free pass and the louder, more vocal people are the ones who are viewed suspiciously instead.

This has occurred in a number of recent games including Prime Minister (#5), Haloden (ika), Camp Mafia (ika / Yuki), Glitch (ika / sekov / Mikecall), etc.

[TheDarkestLight]

More often than not, it's the quiet(er) ones (who are Mafia / scum). It's far more difficult to be a loud / overactive scum (though Frog and Helz are very good at this). Otherwise, the meta here seems to be that scum often take a step into the background because they would prefer not to risk saying too much, which might result in too much attention on them or them making a scum slip by accident / contradicting themselves. Also, we collectively don't call out people who are being overly quiet on this site (the lurker issue in part) so people in the background often get a free pass and the louder, more vocal people are the ones who are viewed suspiciously instead.

This has occurred in a number of recent games including Prime Minister (#5), Haloden (ika), Camp Mafia (ika / Yuki), Glitch (ika / sekov / Mikecall), etc.

I'm not an active scum?

[DarknessB]

I'm not an active scum?

I don't think I've ever been in a game with you where you rolled scum, lol. Something to look forward to?

[TheDarkestLight]

I don't think I've ever been in a game with you where you rolled scum, lol. Something to look forward to?

You weren't in the FM?

[DarknessB]

You weren't in the FM?

Nah, I skipped because it was somewhat close to the time that I had started playing FMs of any kind (this past summer).