S-FM 160: Prime Minister

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

If you prefer 4 vote 4...

You're actually retarded.

I support a 4 lynch the most.

I am also fully (read 100%) in support of a 7 lynch, and that one can happen so I want to make it happen. Isn't the best way to kill someone to push them? Well I want 7 to be lynched cause I think he is evil.

Are you suggesting that I put in effort to make a 7 lynch (which I fully support) not happen in favor of not having a 4 lynch happen today? Because I think he is evil as well?

Man, you are one of those people that stops reading an article because they forgot a comma or something. lol

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I had similar thoughts.

I didn't voice them as it'd appear OMGUS.

Oh you. :)

[S-FM Squiggly]

TLDR:

Revealead Information
*I was bussed - therefore "driven" discussion + bus swap targets discussion
*I am coroner - therefore tailor discussion

Why would you reveal you are coroner now?
Your chances of getting attacked just went up.

Unless BD saves you.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Why would you reveal you are coroner now?
Your chances of getting attacked just went up.

Unless BD saves you.

Because he wants to convince us Executioner is something else.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Because he wants to convince us Executioner is something else.

Yeah that claim is completely out of place.
There is no reason from a town perspective to do it.

Kind of shifting my read on four a bit by that claim.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Yeah that claim is completely out of place.
There is no reason from a town perspective to do it.

Kind of shifting my read on four a bit by that claim.

4 and 7 are scums dude.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Im actually fine with not lynching anyone today. i will unvote so we dont get a early hammer

As town, I'd prefer a lynch.

It's our strongest anti-scum tool.

Pressure is impossible if there's no force or no hammer entirely.

I mentioned whether voting was analytically or not. No one responded. I believe it is important. Apparently you disagree.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Reviewing the thread this guy stands out

S-FM The Third Doctor

Let's see if I did this right

Any particular reasons for this?

BTW your avatar sucks.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I had similar thoughts.

I didn't voice them as it'd appear OMGUS.

I also want to put attention that 4 is, in this post, agreeing with a post that is DIRECTLY a failure of logic. The post suggests that I am reluctant to vote based on my voting and keeping a vocal stance that I would also vote for someone else too.

Being vocal that you are on 2 trains is not somehow being on none.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I feel like the meta of our site is switching to players making town power claims as scum in order to escape lynches. So I am feeling that 4 and 7 are likely scum if not both.

4s claim seems most suspicious if you just look at timing and relevance to everything else.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I feel like the meta of our site is switching to players making town power claims as scum in order to escape lynches. So I am feeling that 4 and 7 are likely scum if not both.

4s claim seems most suspicious if you just look at timing and relevance to everything else.

4 and 7 are scum. I've been saying it for a while. Also look at how 4 engaged people in conversation at the early part of the day, but seemed to avoid 7. Now is taking this odd plan to split votes onto me/himself when 7 is the lynch target.

[S-FM Squiggly]

We have alot of people on and viewing the thread but no discussion. Isn't day over in like 12 hours?

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

We have alot of people on and viewing the thread but no discussion. Isn't day over in like 12 hours?

It's shorter than that because I didn't think I was going to make it back, but am available earlier than expected. I think it's like 4. There is also a link lol

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

I had similar thoughts.

I didn't voice them as it'd appear OMGUS.

Voice them anyway

You seem like a guy I could follow. I'd vote you for PM but you'd prolly die.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Voice them anyway

You seem like a guy I could follow. I'd vote you for PM but you'd prolly die.

HMMM!!!!!

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Why would you reveal you are coroner now?
Your chances of getting attacked just went up.

Unless BD saves you.

I basically revealed coroner D1. Ask 10... I believe his FOS on me was mostly faked to protect me after recognizing my crumbs.

Several people wanted clarification on my claims and viewpoints after today's start so I revealed my withheld information.

There's nothing left to pressure me on.

A vote on me would be to lynch, not pressure. In doing so you'd take out possibly the only coroner in the game. Mind you, this is foolish considering our setup.

By all means weigh the opportunities and threats of keeping me in the game. I'd be surprised if any wolves were foolish enough to vote me now after my claims.

I've mainly discounted 3's remarks at this point. I'd be curious to see your attempt at a logic-based FOS on me.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I really don't like either of the two 'wagons' if you can call them that. Vote on nine is pretty bad. And votes on three are equally as bad.

I think its between 4 and 7 at this point. I really don't trust either of the claims.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I've mainly discounted 3's remarks at this point. I'd be curious to see your attempt at a logic-based FOS on me.

lol. that's pro-town

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Voice them anyway

You seem like a guy I could follow. I'd vote you for PM but you'd prolly die.

I'd prefer not, as I'm possibly the most critical Town role.

At this point there is possibly only 1 candidate worth voting.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I basically revealed coroner D1. Ask 10... I believe his FOS on me was mostly faked to protect me after recognizing my crumbs.

Several people wanted clarification on my claims and viewpoints after today's start so I revealed my withheld information.

There's nothing left to pressure me on.

A vote on me would be to lynch, not pressure. In doing so you'd take out possibly the only coroner in the game. Mind you, this is foolish considering our setup.

By all means weigh the opportunities and threats of keeping me in the game. I'd be surprised if any wolves were foolish enough to vote me now after my claims.

I've mainly discounted 3's remarks at this point. I'd be curious to see your attempt at a logic-based FOS on me.

I know who you are, I know how you play. I looked through your posts D1. They seemed townie, but that is something that can be faked in early stages, harder to fake in later stages.

Can you point to a reason for D2 claiming at all. Because you painted a big target on your back if you are town.
If 6 isn't Exe the mafia definitely won't want you to find that out.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I'd prefer not, as I'm possibly the most critical Town role.

At this point there is possibly only 1 candidate worth voting.

And that is? Are you interested in being helpful, or just appearing helpful?

[S-FM Squiggly]

Right now 4s motivation seems more on survival than actual scumhunting from what I am seeing.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Right now 4s motivation seems more on survival than actual scumhunting from what I am seeing.

Thank you


And that is? Are you interested in being helpful, or just appearing helpful?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I know who you are, I know how you play. I looked through your posts D1. They seemed townie, but that is something that can be faked in early stages, harder to fake in later stages.

Can you point to a reason for D2 claiming at all. Because you painted a big target on your back if you are town.
If 6 isn't Exe the mafia definitely won't want you to find that out.

I doubt that you know me as this is my first game in this community.

Regarding your question:

As I alluded D1, if I were kept alive I'd ensure Town victory. In order to become a defacto Town leader my plan was always to claim sooner than later so to be protected and trusted. My analysis is open and valuable, but my night actions here on out will carry more weight.

I'll be able to use this reveal in one other major way by means of analysis which, I will explain when the time is right.

Finally, I'm able to effectively inform the town more about the current setup. Especially if I were to be tailored and killed.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I doubt that you know me as this is my first game in this community.



Who are you honestly trying to fool?

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I'll be able to use this reveal in one other major way by means of analysis which, I will explain when the time is right.

Read: Don't lynch me, i'll be valuable later, just watch.

Scum buying time.


I doubt that you know me as this is my first game in this community.

Regarding your question:

As I alluded D1, if I were kept alive I'd ensure Town victory. In order to become a defacto Town leader my plan was always to claim sooner than later so to be protected and trusted. My analysis is open and valuable, but my night actions here on out will carry more weight.

Finally, I'm able to effectively inform the town more about the current setup. Especially if I were to be tailored and killed.

Your night actions are valuable if real, but you'd think an actual town would wait until they have information to add to the chat before committing themselves to die.

jesus

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

I doubt that you know me as this is my first game in this community.

If this is the case, why does your avatar have the name of a well-known staff member on it? I'm pretty sure you changed the avatar at the beginning of the game as well.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Right now 4s motivation seems more on survival than actual scumhunting from what I am seeing.

Quite the contrary, I've effectively provided insight to the setup regarding Mafia and Town roles.

I am scum hunting by a non-traditional means. My ability to scum read players isn't limited to ISO, nor would it be particularly effective based on the lack of information floating around.

If I were to seriously pressure players now, it would result in more TPR claims than is already necessary for one day.

I've soft-pressured 7 and 3. How they and everyone else wants to take it is far more important to me.

I'm rather enjoying the current off-topic that is me, but your doubts are beginning to appear as misdirection for the current spotlight.

I'd much rather hear 3 and 7 develop ISO based reads and opinions from therein. I believe the majority agree with this sentiment. I'd rather remain soft-pressure for the purpose of not affecting or influencing others' hard opinions at this point.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

If this is the case, why does your avatar have the name of a well-known staff member on it? I'm pretty sure you changed the avatar at the beginning of the game as well.

I believe com hunting and claiming isn't allowed. Be aware as I wouldn't want you mod killed.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I'd much rather hear 3 and 7 develop ISO based reads and opinions from therein. I believe the majority agree with this sentiment. I'd rather remain soft-pressure for the purpose of not affecting or influencing others' hard opinions at this point.

That's some rather nice deflection and downplaying of the value of my read on you there Fourth.

I am off now and won't return in time for day end. Lynch 7 or 4.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

That's some rather nice deflection and downplaying of the value of my read on you there Fourth.

I am off now and won't return in time for day end. Lynch 7 or 4.

You're on trial.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

I believe com hunting and claiming isn't allowed. Be aware as I wouldn't want you mod killed.

That sounds like a threat, 4th. And, if anything, you opened the door to the question by claiming that this was your first game on the site. If you try to use something about your COM to your advantage (i.e. claiming that you are new and that you therefore don't know the site meta), it would be pretty unfair that we can't call you out on it, especially given your avatar.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

[unvote][/uvote] Wow.

What does this mean??? xD

Coroner claim is interesting. I do not buy a Tailor just yet, though. A Janitor could very well be in the game, waiting to strike.


When I looked at the section for my own posts, you actually missed a few. Was that on purpose?

Yes, I didn't really think the others were that relevant.


Alright then. How about two? After that analysis of every single player in the game, it's difficult to deny he's someone you can develop an opinion of :P

Or maybe 2's analysis isn't strong enough. A Quantity over Quality issue, perhaps? >.>


Food for thought.

Does voting behavior indicate wolf alliance?

Are we simply nailing a scummy noob?

1. Only when it benefits the Mafia. So we should only care about trains that lead to a mafia advantage in terms of analyzing votes.
2. I was thinking the same thing. It might be possible that 7 is just bad. I think another night would clarify the issue.


Hard to say. He could be a scum trying hard to appear useful, considering that the conclusion of his analysis was to put a vote on me.
BECAUSE YOU ARE HIDING INFO


Well, i know that im innocent. He mentions far more scummy people in his reads, but he still decides to vote on me becouse he wants me to give him information.
This post does not deny that you actually have information. As stated before by others, we have enough time that I can spend my early days pressuring for more information.


Why would you reveal you are coroner now?
Your chances of getting attacked just went up.

Unless BD saves you.

Lol this WIFOM GAME IS TOO MUCH!!!! They probably won't risk shooting 4. Besides, he needed to with that lynch train. Also, if 7 is actually a Body Double then 4 is likely to be okay for now.


Because he wants to convince us Executioner is something else.
I disagree. I think that 4 is really the Coroner and that 6 is really the Executioner. Tonight will confirm for us what we should believe.


I really don't like either of the two 'wagons' if you can call them that. Vote on nine is pretty bad. And votes on three are equally as bad.

I think its between 4 and 7 at this point. I really don't trust either of the claims.
I am against a lynch today. Let the dice roll so we can get more information for tomorrow! We can confirm information that way.


I know who you are, I know how you play. I looked through your posts D1. They seemed townie, but that is something that can be faked in early stages, harder to fake in later stages.

Can you point to a reason for D2 claiming at all. Because you painted a big target on your back if you are town.
If 6 isn't Exe the mafia definitely won't want you to find that out.
Please please please please please don't try and use meta to figure this out.

[S-FM Squiggly]

@2 I am not using meta at all. I am looking at motivation for actions. 4s actions today seem self preservation. His counter arguments aren't convincing me otherwise.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

The argument against 4 is weak, lynching him today damages the town because his role claim is so great. Without further evidence either way, we would be foolish to try and make definitive claims today.

We should be focused on who is going to become the PM. I voted 10, what about everyone else?

[S-FM Squiggly]

The argument against 4 is weak, lynching him today damages the town because his role claim is so great. Without further evidence either way, we would be foolish to try and make definitive claims today.

We should be focused on who is going to become the PM. I voted 10, what about everyone else?

Best not to reveal who you voted for.
We don't need to give mafia anymore information than they have, which right now could be a lot to not much depending on how accurate the claims are so far.

I am fairly confidant we have at leas 1 Bus Driver, I don't know if 4s feedback is accurate though I can see reasons to fake it. We have potentially a Escort/Consort though leaning for Consort, and possibly Tailor which I kinda doubt if 4 is lying about his role.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

The argument against 4 is weak, lynching him today damages the town because his role claim is so great. Without further evidence either way, we would be foolish to try and make definitive claims today.

We should be focused on who is going to become the PM. I voted 10, what about everyone else?

Given the votes that are currently on the table, it's very unlikely that 4th would be lynched today in any event. We don't have a ton of time left so it would either be 7th, who is at L-2, or no-lynch. Certainly doesn't hurt to milk this day for any additional information we can get though.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

Best not to reveal who you voted for.
We don't need to give mafia anymore information than they have, which right now could be a lot to not much depending on how accurate the claims are so far.

I am fairly confidant we have at leas 1 Bus Driver, I don't know if 4s feedback is accurate though I can see reasons to fake it. We have potentially a Escort/Consort though leaning for Consort, and possibly Tailor which I kinda doubt if 4 is lying about his role.

Yea, but the PM is revealed at Day's end anyway. The only worry is that they could influence the votes.

I agree on the BD. It's a toss up for me on the Consort/Escort but I could buy the Consort argument for now. I believe 4 is Coroner, but I still don't believe in a Tailor.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

Given the votes that are currently on the table, it's very unlikely that 4th would be lynched today in any event. We don't have a ton of time left so it would either be 7th, who is at L-2, or no-lynch. Certainly doesn't hurt to milk this day for any additional information we can get though.

Maybe, but I would rather we not lynch anyone today. We have a lot of good analysis, now we just need to see how this night falls.

[S-FM Squiggly]

It really irritates me the amount of lurkers we have on this thread right now.
10 and 12, want to contribute to conversation at all?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Given the votes that are currently on the table, it's very unlikely that 4th would be lynched today in any event. We don't have a ton of time left so it would either be 7th, who is at L-2, or no-lynch. Certainly doesn't hurt to milk this day for any additional information we can get though.

A lynch 3 is still very possible.

He literally walked away on trial after giving his best of a defense.

I'd prefer if others ISOed as I have a biased opinion.

S-FM The Third Doctor

Again, I'm in favor of a lynch today.

[S-FM Squiggly]

A lynch 3 is still very possible.

He literally walked away on trial after giving his best of a defense.

I'd prefer if others ISOed as I have a biased opinion.

S-FM The Third Doctor

Again, I'm in favor of a lynch today.

You are derailing a train atm for a train on a player that is quite possibly one of the worst choices to lynch in this game at this time.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

8,11,2,10,12,4 - we're all here

5 already voted.

That's a lynch.

You suggested otherwise impossible.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

A lynch 3 is still very possible.

He literally walked away on trial after giving his best of a defense.

I'd prefer if others ISOed as I have a biased opinion.

S-FM The Third Doctor

Again, I'm in favor of a lynch today.

I can see the 3 train, but I won't hop on it yet. He strikes me as newish, and he could be an excellent starting point for tomorrow's day.

[S-FM Squiggly]

8,11,2,10,12,4 - we're all here

5 already voted.

That's a lynch.

You suggested otherwise impossible.
So you assume I am going to go along with this?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I'd almost be more suspicious if this lynch doesn't go through.

If there's one mafia among us, it should pass, unless it's on a scum buddy.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I'd almost be more suspicious if this lynch doesn't go through.

If there's one mafia among us, it should pass, unless it's on a scum buddy.

We already saw 7 at L-1

I believe that's telling enough.

I'd propose 3 before day is over for analysis purposes.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I'd almost be more suspicious if this lynch doesn't go through.

If there's one mafia among us, it should pass, unless it's on a scum buddy.

This train of thought doesn't follow at all.
So if it doesn't pass = He is Mafia
If it passes = He is Town?

Is that what you are getting at?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

You are derailing a train atm for a train on a player that is quite possibly one of the worst choices to lynch in this game at this time.

I'm obviously on board with 7th (given my vote), but why don't you think 3rd would be a good lynch candidate? I.e. what's your overall read on 3rd?

I'm going to put together an ISO, but might as well get everyone else thinking about it as well.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

This train of thought doesn't follow at all.
So if it doesn't pass = He is Mafia
If it passes = He is Town?

Is that what you are getting at?

If she is a witch, she will not drown.
If she is not a witch, she will drown.

I agree that logic sound weak.

[S-FM Buzzy]

The argument against 4 is weak, lynching him today damages the town because his role claim is so great. Without further evidence either way, we would be foolish to try and make definitive claims today.

We should be focused on who is going to become the PM. I voted 10, what about everyone else?

I see no issue with revealing who we voted for / will vote for. At the worst, it will give mafia a chance to hop on a "voting bandwagon" and vote with town to look innocent. But that doesn't really mean anything.

I voted 1. I like his style.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

We already saw 7 at L-1

I believe that's telling enough.

I'd propose 3 before day is over for analysis purposes.

What's even more telling is who had the opportunity to hammer 7th and didn't, if we're trying to draw some inferences about which players might be aligned with each other. Something to keep in mind in terms of our reads.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

If she is a witch, she will not drown.
If she is not a witch, she will drown.

I agree that logic sound weak.

It's more to do with narrowing the suspect pool than the player at hand, but you're all correct that the proposed lynch is poisted weak.

[S-FM Buzzy]

If she is a witch, she will not drown.
If she is not a witch, she will drown.

I agree that logic sound weak.

Yeah, the guy is tempting me to rally another lynch train xD. But I'll save that for the sequel, on the next even day. If we're still both alive.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

I see no issue with revealing who we voted for / will vote for. At the worst, it will give mafia a chance to hop on a "voting bandwagon" and vote with town to look innocent. But that doesn't really mean anything.

I voted 1. I like his style.

You realize we don't get to see the vote totals for each person, but just find out who was elected PM at the end of the day, right? I might agree with your strategy if we got to see vote totals.

[S-FM Buzzy]

It's more to do with narrowing the suspect pool than the player at hand, but you're all correct that the proposed lynch is poisted weak.

Suspect elimination is a bad approach to this game at a point where our "suspect pool" is still changing every 40 posts. We can save that approach for when we have 2 or 3 people we definitely hate and time to kill them all.

[S-FM Buzzy]

You realize we don't get to see the vote totals for each person, but just find out who was elected PM at the end of the day, right? I might agree with your strategy if we got to see vote totals.

I wasn't saying there was any particular advantage to revealing who you voted. I merely said "there was no issue". Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, because you make it sound like I had some kind of "strategy", as if I was hoping to gauge some kind of "advantage" or something equally radical xD

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Suspect elimination is a bad approach to this game at a point where our "suspect pool" is still changing every 40 posts. We can save that approach for when we have 2 or 3 people we definitely hate and time to kill them all.

There's also the problem of people not being around at the same times so far in this game. I get time zones and such, but my sense is that certain players have yet to get into the game much. In addition. there's still a pretty sizeable lurker contingent that is avoiding much participation so far. If nothing else, I would support pressuring lurkers if we have no other good reads.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Suspect elimination is a bad approach to this game at a point where our "suspect pool" is still changing every 40 posts. We can save that approach for when we have 2 or 3 people we definitely hate and time to kill them all.

Why isn't this person our PM?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

I wasn't saying there was any particular advantage to revealing who you voted. I merely said "there was no issue". Perhaps there was a misunderstanding, because you make it sound like I had some kind of "strategy", as if I was hoping to gauge some kind of "advantage" or something equally radical xD

Well, at the very least, I was hoping you had some sort of strategy in mind, lol.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Suspect elimination is a bad approach to this game at a point where our "suspect pool" is still changing every 40 posts. We can save that approach for when we have 2 or 3 people we definitely hate and time to kill them all.

Overall I soft pushed my lynch candidates to observe voting behavior.

This behavior is useful for our killing roles decisions.

Whether it's recognizing sheep or otherwise illogical votes.

It appears the mentality of current players is strong enough to not immediately accept a weak candidate proposal. This is a good sign and this behavior that should be noted as a reference point should any of you deviate from this behavior.

[S-FM Buzzy]

Well, at the very least, I was hoping you had some sort of strategy in mind, lol.

Overestimating my intelligence is a dangerous mistake xD. You get what you see, pal.

Anyway, in response to your post about lurkers, the only person who's particularly inactive is War. And he's softclaimed life issues sooo we can't really punish him for that.

I think just one town death at this point could really shed some light on the game in general, and establish what we do during the odd-numbered day (3) before the even numbered day (4) when I try futile lynch no.2 on 4.

[S-FM Buzzy]

Anyway, going to bed. Goodnight!

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

Overall I soft pushed my lynch candidates to observe voting behavior.

This behavior is useful for our killing roles decisions.

Whether it's recognizing sheep or otherwise illogical votes.

It appears the mentality of current players is strong enough to not immediately accept a weak candidate proposal. This is a good sign and this behavior that should be noted as a reference point should any of you deviate from this behavior.



I don't know if I really buy the "I was reaction testing" defense, but I don't want to vote you anyway so its w/e.

This establishes some voting behavior, but I still think it's really only useful when the vote would benefit the mafia.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I don't know if I really buy the "I was reaction testing" defense, but I don't want to vote you anyway so its w/e.

This establishes some voting behavior, but I still think it's really only useful when the vote would benefit the mafia.

You ISO well, I had previously alluded to my soft-push strategy if there's any lingering doubt.

The only other explanation was I'm actually sheriff WIFOMing because I pegged 3 as mafia and created 2 soft trains to see who would lead, hop on and off of which when it mattered.

I'm coroner, I have no purpose in WIFOM as my desire is to be as open as possible.

Again, do not vote me for PM.

Losing my power is bad.

For the record, I voted for 10 last night.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

I'm surprised nobody has asked 4 the reason why he softclaimed D1 and hard claimed D2 and nobody is questioning why he would do that if he's using his role as a reason to not be lynched.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

I honestly think 4 could be a veteran.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I honestly think 4 could be a veteran.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=523606&viewfull=1#post523606

You missed a few others who weighed in on this.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Here's my quote:

I doubt that you know me as this is my first game in this community.

Regarding your question:

As I alluded D1, if I were kept alive I'd ensure Town victory. In order to become a defacto Town leader my plan was always to claim sooner than later so to be protected and trusted. My analysis is open and valuable, but my night actions here on out will carry more weight.

I'll be able to use this reveal in one other major way by means of analysis which, I will explain when the time is right.

Finally, I'm able to effectively inform the town more about the current setup. Especially if I were to be tailored and killed.

[S-FM Grubby]

Is nobody at all bothered by the level of PR hunting in this game? Some specific player looks more dedicated to hunting for Power Roles than alignments.. More on that subject in my last will.

Coroner is pretty much just an effective counter to a Janitor. Tailor is useless because if we all put our role in our LW and they can not touch a last will. So unless a janitor shows up 4 is a glorified visiting citizen
Regardless of your roll- Even citizens- Put that shit in your last will

The Body Double claim felt off to me. I did not really see the pressure necessary for a claim and even with pressure I would expect a protective role to flat out refuse to claim. His claim gives us nothing on the basis of his alignment or any way to verify (Short of a lookout/detective watching him and catching him in a lie)

I would somewhat support lynching 5. He points to his inexperience entirely too much creating an situation where nobody expects contributions from him. If he is scum he is in a great position to lurk through the game with only a night action catching him. If he is town there is a great chance for the scum to manipulate him in the late game to lock down their win. I see it as a low risk lynch that puts the town in a more solid position with more information regardless of the flip.

S-FM The Fifth Doctor

[S-FM Grubby]

I honestly think 4 could be a veteran.

*Facepalm*

Guys.. Seriously fucking stop TPR hunting. Everyone is doing it and it is fucking retarded. If someone is withholding information do not press them for that shit. Let them hold it back. Satisfy your curiosity at the gay bar and get fucked. The worst thing we can do is run around like a bunch of retards revealing all the PR's so the scum know who to kill.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

Is nobody at all bothered by the level of PR hunting in this game? Some specific player looks more dedicated to hunting for Power Roles than alignments.. More on that subject in my last will.

Coroner is pretty much just an effective counter to a Janitor. Tailor is useless because if we all put our role in our LW and they can not touch a last will. So unless a janitor shows up 4 is a glorified visiting citizen
Regardless of your roll- Even citizens- Put that shit in your last will

The Body Double claim felt off to me. I did not really see the pressure necessary for a claim and even with pressure I would expect a protective role to flat out refuse to claim. His claim gives us nothing on the basis of his alignment or any way to verify (Short of a lookout/detective watching him and catching him in a lie)

I would somewhat support lynching 5. He points to his inexperience entirely too much creating an situation where nobody expects contributions from him. If he is scum he is in a great position to lurk through the game with only a night action catching him. If he is town there is a great chance for the scum to manipulate him in the late game to lock down their win. I see it as a low risk lynch that puts the town in a more solid position with more information regardless of the flip.

S-FM The Fifth Doctor

I'd probably agree with this if I weren't, you know, actually a new player on SC2mafia?

Valid argument though.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

Tad paranoid but valid.

[S-FM Grubby]

I never said you are not new. I said you are pointing it out way too much. You are making a pointed effort to make sure every player in the game knows that you are new which I see as scummy in combination with the rest of your comments.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

*Facepalm*

Guys.. Seriously fucking stop TPR hunting. Everyone is doing it and it is fucking retarded. If someone is withholding information do not press them for that shit. Let them hold it back. Satisfy your curiosity at the gay bar and get fucked. The worst thing we can do is run around like a bunch of retards revealing all the PR's so the scum know who to kill.

I disagree somewhat. When someone, like 9 or 4, basically declares they have secret information, why should we not question them about that information? The PR's need to calm the fuck down and not reveal that they ever have "secret information" in the first place.

I'll unvote 9, but that's more because no one is going for the pressure.

[S-FM Grubby]

I disagree somewhat. When someone, like 9 or 4, basically declares they have secret information, why should we not question them about that information? The PR's need to calm the fuck down and not reveal that they ever have "secret information" in the first place.

I'll unvote 9, but that's more because no one is going for the pressure.



Say you are town and were role blocked. You are smart enough to withhold the information and put it in your last will. This breadcrumbs the feedback ahead of time. 2 days later a player is up for a lynch because he visited someone that died. That player claims Escort and that he visited you. You can confirm and reference the post to shake off any feel that your claim was 'fake' because of that breadcrumb.

Although I agree that 9 did it in a weird way, it is only blatant because you hammered on the point. In general I expect that scum read the thread less and put less effort into looking at details which allows town to communicate through soft insinuations under their nose. Given the shitty night kill we may be able to do this. I have other thoughts on the night kill in relation to the mafia teams intentions but I will reveal that halfway though D3 or in my last will.

Regardless I don't see the point in pressuring him to reveal information that 'may be' useful to the town but could 'very easily be' harmful to it/better left unsaid for now. If he is not a moron it will be in his last will / he will reveal the information when there is a reason to do so and it helps the town.

[S-FM The Second Doctor]

Say you are town and were role blocked. You are smart enough to withhold the information and put it in your last will. This breadcrumbs the feedback ahead of time. 2 days later a player is up for a lynch because he visited someone that died. That player claims Escort and that he visited you. You can confirm and reference the post to shake off any feel that your claim was 'fake' because of that breadcrumb.

Although I agree that 9 did it in a weird way, it is only blatant because you hammered on the point. In general I expect that scum read the thread less and put less effort into looking at details which allows town to communicate through soft insinuations under their nose. Given the shitty night kill we may be able to do this. I have other thoughts on the night kill in relation to the mafia teams intentions but I will reveal that halfway though D3 or in my last will.

Regardless I don't see the point in pressuring him to reveal information that 'may be' useful to the town but could 'very easily be' harmful to it/better left unsaid for now. If he is not a moron it will be in his last will / he will reveal the information when there is a reason to do so and it helps the town.

Well said, I agree. Thanks for spelling it out, that makes sense.

[Rassilon]

Night Two

Night Two Ends at THIS TIME (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20151015T02&p0=136&font=cursive)

I grow weary of telling you what you have done today.
You shall now imagine your own roleplay.

S-FM The Tenth Doctor Is Now President of the United Kingdom


End Lynch Vote Count:
S-FM The Fifth Doctor (1 [L-6]):
S-FM The Tenth Doctor
S-FM The Seventh Doctor (4 [L-3]):
S-FM The War Doctor, S-FM The Third Doctor, S-FM The Eleventh Doctor, S-FM The Eight Doctor
S-FM The Third Doctor (1 [L-6]):
S-FM The Fifth Doctor



Players
Roles
Graveyard


S-FM The First Doctor
S-FM The Second Doctor
S-FM The Third Doctor
S-FM The Fourth Doctor
S-FM The Fifth Doctor
S-FM The Seventh Doctor
S-FM The Eight Doctor
S-FM The War Doctor
S-FM The Ninth Doctor
S-FM The Tenth Doctor
S-FM The Eleventh Doctor
S-FM The Twelfth Doctor
Mafia
Mafia
Mafia
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Neutral
S-FM The Sixth Doctor: Executioner



QuickLinks
LINK TO SETUP (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/32759-S-FM-Prime-Minister-(Setup)-(13-Player))
Opening Post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522508&viewfull=1#post522508)
Day One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522527&viewfull=1#post522527)
Night One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522941&viewfull=1#post522941)
Day Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=523200&viewfull=1#post523200)
Night Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=523685&viewfull=1#post523685)
Day Three (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=524060&viewfull=1#post524060)
Night Three (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525127&viewfull=1#post525127)
Day Four (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525191&viewfull=1#post525191)
Night Four (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525703&viewfull=1#post525703)
Day Five (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525764&viewfull=1#post525764)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-6fEj17MK4

[Rassilon]

Day Three

Day Three Ends at THIS TIME (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20151017T0230&p0=136&font=cursive)

S-FM The Second Doctor Has been killed.
His role was: Lookout


Last Will
So I am your wonderful lookout, town! I would like to point out that S-FM The Eight Doctor was the only one to visit S-FM the Sixth Doctor. (N1)
Good luck!
15890,3
6

Did you know that I have a bike, The Bike of Rassilon they call it.
I tend to name everything The XXX of Rassilon.
The Boner of Rassilon. Fear it.




Players
Roles
Graveyard


S-FM The First Doctor
S-FM The Third Doctor
S-FM The Fourth Doctor
S-FM The Fifth Doctor
S-FM The Seventh Doctor
S-FM The Eight Doctor
S-FM The War Doctor
S-FM The Ninth Doctor
S-FM The Tenth Doctor
S-FM The Eleventh Doctor
S-FM The Twelfth Doctor
Mafia
Mafia
Mafia
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Town
Neutral
S-FM The Sixth Doctor: Executioner
S-FM The Second Doctor: Lookout



QuickLinks
LINK TO SETUP (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/32759-S-FM-Prime-Minister-(Setup)-(13-Player))
Opening Post (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522508&viewfull=1#post522508)
Day One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522527&viewfull=1#post522527)
Night One (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=522941&viewfull=1#post522941)
Day Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=523200&viewfull=1#post523200)
Night Two (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=523685&viewfull=1#post523685)
Day Three (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=524060&viewfull=1#post524060)
Night Three (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525127&viewfull=1#post525127)
Day Four (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525191&viewfull=1#post525191)
Night Four (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525703&viewfull=1#post525703)
Day Five (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/33296-S-FM-161-Prime-Minister?p=525764&viewfull=1#post525764)

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Alright, a useful last will. So now we await the coroners autopsy report, should 6 have not been visited by a driver, or tailor, then we can confirm 2's claim on 8, and lynch him.

On a side note, I have nothing to report for N2

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Also as a sub note, the 'eight' doctor was lurking on this post from the day 3 post for nearly 10 minutes, and left without posting. Seems rather suspicious given there was a reasonable claim made against him.

[S-FM Squiggly]

So I have no feedback from last night.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Also as a sub note, the 'eight' doctor was lurking on this post from the day 3 post for nearly 10 minutes, and left without posting. Seems rather suspicious given there was a reasonable claim made against him.

I'm right here, Mr. Paranoid. Wouldn't trust the browsing indicators because they flip on and off depending on your browser. If you guys want to force me to claim, I will, but you're better off if I don't, in terms of protecting the PM.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

And yes, that's a soft claim.

[S-FM Squiggly]

And yes, that's a soft claim.

You claiming Body Double?

[S-FM Squiggly]

We know there is potentially 1-2 drivers in the game.
Since we had 3 claims of driver.

I want to ask now, was anyone bussed last night?

[S-FM Squiggly]

We know there is potentially 1-2 drivers in the game.
Since we had 3 claims of driver.

I want to ask now, was anyone bussed last night?

*3 claims of bussed.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

You claiming Body Double?

I'll respond by repeating what I said before:


If you guys want to force me to claim, I will, but you're better off if I don't, in terms of protecting the PM.

And yes, that's a soft claim.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I'll respond by repeating what I said before:

Alright mr passive aggressive.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

*Facepalm*

Guys.. Seriously fucking stop TPR hunting. Everyone is doing it and it is fucking retarded. If someone is withholding information do not press them for that shit. Let them hold it back. Satisfy your curiosity at the gay bar and get fucked. The worst thing we can do is run around like a bunch of retards revealing all the PR's so the scum know who to kill.

This is also good advice given how early we are in the game.

[S-FM Squiggly]

This is also good advice given how early we are in the game.

We already know you are some kind of power role.
That isn't in question anymore.

Lookout returned positive results on you.
And their is no Drug Dealer so it isn't fake.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

We already know you are some kind of power role.
That isn't in question anymore.

Lookout returned positive results on you.
And their is no Drug Dealer so it isn't fake.

Thanks for continuing to paint the target on my back -- if the Mafia haven't caught on already, you're making their job easy.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

So, at this stage this is just speculation, just throwing out my thoughts for consideration/correction.

We've had 3 claims of being driven on N1, obviously there should have been 4, unless the 4th was the (then) PM, 6, or someone was withholding information. So its possible we have both a bus and a chauffeur. Given that its likely town protectives were covering 6, its possible that the bus moved two arbitrary players, and the mafia moved the PM with one an arbitrary player that they then targetted, or one of their own

Moving either would result in an undefended PM (most likely), and a defended random player, which leads to the second scenario of them swapping one of their own in place of the PM being the more likely scenario.

So upon the coroners report, if the PM was bussed, then the lookouts information could indicate that the person he watched visiting 6 was actually a chauffeur (or incredibly incompetent bus). Or if 6 was not bussed, then the lookout observed the mafia killing role that took 6 out. In either situation, 8 is guilty from what I can see.

I might be missing a mechanic here, or some other information, so feel free to throw your input in

[S-FM Grubby]

Doc 8- Could you provide me with a read wall?

[S-FM Squiggly]

It is also possible someone was lying about being bussed yesterday.

If that was the case I would highly think it was 4 who lied about that.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Doc 8- Could you provide me with a read wall?

I'll write something up, stand by.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Waiting on the "Coroner" results.
And to see who the "Body Double" guarded.

If you can't tell, I don't trust either of those two. Unsure of 8 as well now.

I wonder if it as simple as those three?

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Wait, are you implying you dont trust me for waiting for the coroner claim (4th doc) to give us his info, or you dont trust the 4th doc?

[S-FM Squiggly]

Wait, are you implying you dont trust me for waiting for the coroner claim (4th doc) to give us his info, or you dont trust the 4th doc?

I don't trust the 4 doctor.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Yeah... 6 was executioner. (no last will).

10 seemed positioned as his likely target.

Good (and bad) news is this improves the chauffeur theory.

Worse news I'm officially a cit with a pointless action.

:-/

I voted 10 again.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

I dont think it matters if you trust him or not, regardless of what he says, 8 comes out of this as:

Chauffeur
Mafia Killing
Idiot BD

If he was a protective on 6, then the lookout wouldve seen two visitations on 6, or the bussed 6.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Yeah... 6 was executioner. (no last will).

10 seemed positioned as his likely target.

Good (and bad) news is this improves the chauffeur theory.

Worse news I'm officially a cit with a pointless action.

:-/

I voted 10 again.

I actually wasn't expecting this from you.
Huh

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I'll be back on in ~12 hours.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Yeah... 6 was executioner. (no last will).

Right, well my vote stands here until 8 proves he is innocent, or someone can on his behalf with the information we've recieved

S-FM The Eight Doctor

[S-FM Grubby]

Also I will verify that before I was elected I was indeed a Citizen. And the role flip semi-verifys the lack of a Tailor as well as further confirms my suspension that 6 was in fact the executioner. His plays D1 were heavy sided town bids without scum hunting and pressing for the PM election. This would be right in line with an executioner role although I read his D1 plays against me as more of a bid for town cred than me being his target. I would try to dig into who his target could be but the setup states its a random player. Not that his target is town. My only inclination that his target should be town is a balance boner to counter how difficult his win-con would already be without fighting a vote block on top of pushing a lynch.

This night kill also confirms that there is a decent player on the scum team or they are randoming the night kill. 2 did crumb his role although his interactions with 8 were lacking. I could see him as being smart enough to play that right to avoid the attention as I read him as a very solid player but I made a pointed effort to discredit him in some ways. This suggests that the mafia team either has a very strong player making his own reads independent of others or its just random kills to throw off logical reads on why who was killed.

Will an Actress be notified of the role they are going to appear as in the graveyard?
After an Actress gets a role to appear as will that only last for the night he did the action or forever until he makes another action?

The "Paranoid as fuck" situation is that 2 was an actress who was smart enough to create a bad lynch through his last will with a bus driver redirecting the kill onto mafia.

There are other situations where 8 could be town but I would like to discourage players from digging into 8's alignment for the first half of today.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I am done for night guys, I will be on tomorrow.

[S-FM Grubby]

I'll write something up, stand by.

Also could you verify who you targeted with your night actions?

[Rassilon]

Will an Actress be notified of the role they are going to appear as in the graveyard? No.
After an Actress gets a role to appear as will that only last for the night he did the action or forever until he makes another action? Lasts for the Night and Day.

Red

[S-FM Grubby]

Are bus drivers / chauffer's seen as visiting roles?

[S-FM Grubby]

Are bus drivers / chauffer's seen as visiting roles by a lookout?

[Rassilon]

Are bus drivers / chauffer's seen as visiting roles by a lookout?

Yes: If the lookout ends up visiting someone who has received driven feedback, they will see the person who has driven them.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I'm sure you'll figure this out and discuss in detail:

Chauffeur
Swap 2 players at night. Those that visit one will effect the other.
You may not swap yourself.
Targets are notified
Can be sent for the factional night kill in exchange for night action.

Bruiser
Target one player at night, killing them.
-This attack bypasses all healing, all misdirection, and immunities.
-One use.
-This replaces the Mafia faction kill

Order of Operations

0.1 Night chats open (Mafia)
1. Veteran Alerts
2. Body-double Protects
3. Bus Driver>Chauffeur>Beguiler
4. Roleblocks (Can Roleblock Redirects Directly)
5. Framer/Actress
6. Investigations (See all movements from 2 and onwards)
7. Survivor vests.
8. Kills (-1) (Vet, Vig, Mafia Faction Kill)
9. Heals (+1)
10. Tailor
11. Janitor
12. Coroner

12 is kind of cool. I can target a vet on alert, but if they don't die I don't visit them so I'm not killed.

Yes, I found this out D2 unfortunately.

Good news is I can target PMs to find out their role if they die that night.

Again, figured that one out late.

Let me know what you think of the scum team possibilities I pointed out.

E.g. N1 Bruiser - does it take any risks?

Does Bruiser survive after attacking a bodydouble protected target?

Is Bruiser detection immune?

If mafia targets (factional kill) a beguiler hiding on their target and a lookout is on the target, who will the lookout see visiting?

Lookout was watching anyone 6 was potentially bussed with OR bruiser took a ballsy N1 risk assuming bypassing protectives was all he needed.

I realize now it's a stupid idea...

Chauffeur adds up best.

Which means whoever 6 was bussed with was actually watched.

Either 9 or 11.

In any case, chauffeur will have visited both targets.
(Don't start with "unless chauffeur was roleblocked" because chauffeur could not have been roleblocked for mafia to pull off such a lucky kill. 1/12 odds really. 1/11 if they hadn't planned on attacking 6. I'm curious to see who 8 claims to have bussed 6 with.)

If mafia chauffeur targets 2 players, and a lookout is on either player, will the chauffeur be spotted by lookout on either target or only one of the two driven targets?

ISO 8. Short game so far.

Followup:
What does this mean for players who have claimed driven D2? Are we more / less / or null suspicious for involvement?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Yes: If the lookout ends up visiting someone who has received driven feedback, they will see the person who has driven them.

woops. Auto-restored content of my post before reading.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Also I will verify that before I was elected I was indeed a Citizen. And the role flip semi-verifys the lack of a Tailor as well as further confirms my suspension that 6 was in fact the executioner. His plays D1 were heavy sided town bids without scum hunting and pressing for the PM election. This would be right in line with an executioner role although I read his D1 plays against me as more of a bid for town cred than me being his target. I would try to dig into who his target could be but the setup states its a random player. Not that his target is town. My only inclination that his target should be town is a balance boner to counter how difficult his win-con would already be without fighting a vote block on top of pushing a lynch.

This night kill also confirms that there is a decent player on the scum team or they are randoming the night kill. 2 did crumb his role although his interactions with 8 were lacking. I could see him as being smart enough to play that right to avoid the attention as I read him as a very solid player but I made a pointed effort to discredit him in some ways. This suggests that the mafia team either has a very strong player making his own reads independent of others or its just random kills to throw off logical reads on why who was killed.

Will an Actress be notified of the role they are going to appear as in the graveyard?
After an Actress gets a role to appear as will that only last for the night he did the action or forever until he makes another action?

The "Paranoid as fuck" situation is that 2 was an actress who was smart enough to create a bad lynch through his last will with a bus driver redirecting the kill onto mafia.

There are other situations where 8 could be town but I would like to discourage players from digging into 8's alignment for the first half of today.

My bad...

2 was clearly balls to the wall town. He should have stuck to his initial style of fewer concise points. No one was seriously roasting his nuts. I'm sure this is worrying and now I see where you're coming from 10.

[Rassilon]

I'm sure you'll figure this out and discuss in detail:


Does Bruiser survive after attacking a bodydouble protected target? Yes

Is Bruiser detection immune? No

If mafia targets (factional kill) a beguiler hiding on their target and a lookout is on the target, who will the lookout see visiting? Both

If mafia chauffeur targets 2 players, and a lookout is on either player, will the chauffeur be spotted by lookout on either target or only one of the two driven targets? What I said before which you already noticed.


Red

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Last note before I'm out.

My position.
8 is a strong lynch candidate/priority tomorrow.

I don't want to hear any disagreements with this position.

Only:
1. Agree
2. He should be lynched today

Not:
1. Neither of these options

Doesn't need to be a long response. More of an unofficial poll.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

S-FM The Ninth Doctor

May have been a misread, but it's he's in my top 2 for today.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

We know there is potentially 1-2 drivers in the game.
Since we had 3 claims of driver.

I want to ask now, was anyone bussed last night?

Why is this important to you?

7 was obviously bussed if that's why you're asking.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

XX XXXXXXXXX X XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Hello 9.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

This is a hard push for you. I expect you won't escape it. Give up your teammates now and we can end this sooner.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

What are you talking about?

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

Well i got no feedback last night.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Well i got no feedback last night.

But you visited 2.

How can that be?

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

But you visited 2.

How can that be?

According to who?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

According to who?

So you're not denying it at least.

Why did you visit 2?

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

So you're not denying it at least.
Why did you visit 2?
i havent visited 2. Who is saying that i have?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

i havent visited 2. Who is saying that i have?

Interesting.

I am.

My vote stays.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

Interesting.

I am.

My vote stays.
The coroner? Okay..

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

Why exacly are you trying to prevent 8s lynch?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

You claimed you visited 11 yesterday. Conveniently 11 was bussed.

What info did you receive from that?

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

You claimed you visited 11 yesterday. Conveniently 11 was bussed.

What info did you receive from that?

Alot of info. Im just dying to share it.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Please do.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

You've already claimed an invest role.

Let's hear it.

No reason to hide it anymore.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Tenth, please support this reveal.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

Tenth, please support this reveal.
I actually want to see if he is going to join this silly countertrain of yours.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I actually want to see if he is going to join this silly countertrain of yours.

I'm curious to hear what was up with bussed 11.

Did your target visit 11?

Was your bussed target NS?

What made 11 in your mind Town before accepting his bussed claim?

You may as well reveal THAT information.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

I'm curious to hear what was up with bussed 11.

Did your target visit 11?

Was your bussed target NS?

What made 11 in your mind Town before accepting his bussed claim?

You may as well reveal THAT information.

I think ill take that information to my grave.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

I think ill take that information to my grave.

Even if you have a conflict with 4, being a dick about it and restricting the rest of the town to information we may be able to use is utterly pointless. It only makes you look guilty. So instead of having this stupid little confrontation, just give up the old info and lets move on

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

If i had any info worth sharing, believe me i would.

Im not going to let 4 succeed in his obvious pr hunting.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

You may not think its valuable, but your opinion doesnt reflect that of every one, somebody may be able to use that info for something

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

XX XXXXXXXXX X XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX XXXXXXX

I'm expecting a hard push from XXXXXXXXXXX (11) XXX(3) XXXXXXXXX(9)

XXXXXXXXXXX(11) Tracker
XXXXXXXXX(9) Bruiser
XXX(3) Actress


I think ill take that information to my grave.

Indeed you will.

You see there are no more town invests in such a small setup.
I'm the coroner, 2 was the invest.

You're realizing this now as well.

You and I recognize 11 may chime in on 7's movements or lackthereof as a tracker. You don't want to hard claim to take up all the slots. Especially if I'm mislynched.

You see I recognized a TPR hunting pattern amongst you 3 (the Third will not be mentioned, although already pinpointed). Presumably so that your actress can get their story straight early and have a believable last will. Your actress and tracker did target 7 last night, correct? You want to know whether 7 was bussed because your tracker (11)'s feedback came back null? You want your Third to be a believable fake body double? You recognize your Third was on the hot seat and you want to get 7's claim right? You recognize it's a gamble whether or not 7 was bussed so your actress is uncertain which to claim?

I saw soft bussing, train sheeping, even possibly inventing claims of extra roles (extra bd, escort, one of those may be true but unlikely- escort more than extra bus).

I recognize bruisers ability to frame protectives, somewhat of the 8 train going on now.

And I see you caught in this web, I just wanted to hear you admit it before Town train rolls.

GG

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Suddenly agree with me except for the part about you.

Because if I'm lynched you realize the shitstorm that ensues.

Please claim citizen and then vote 11 to bus your teammate again.

S-FM the eleventh doctor

Sorry for being a dick about this.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

You caught me. GG!

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

SuperJack please don't end game early.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

SuperJack please don't end game early.

The fourth doctor has found all the scums. You can end this game in a town victory mow.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Not sure if serious or not...

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

The fourth doctor has found all the scums. You can end this game in a town victory mow.

I'll assume your posts have been sarcastic as a way to counter me. Knowing full well the game isn't over because you are in fact a citizen...

[S-FM Grubby]

Not sure if serious or not...

You should be

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

You should be

Uncertain, serious, or not?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Hi 7

[S-FM The Seventh Doctor]

Uh, I thought I told you NOT to visit me last night. But come on - someone bussed me this time!

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Uh, I thought I told you NOT to visit me last night. But come on - someone bussed me this time!

BEST Answer.

Force claim from 3 now?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Hello 3, claim your role plox.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

I was bussed last night. Just wanted to say that before heading to bed. I'll explain why 4, 7, and whoever else are either A: still shitty or B: not as shitty in the morning.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Hello 3, claim your role plox.

I don't take demands. See you in the morning.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I was bussed last night. Just wanted to say that before heading to bed. I'll explain why 4, 7, and whoever else are either A: still shitty or B: not as shitty in the morning.

So... you roleblocked 11 or bussed 9 and 11?

Escort or BD. Plox claim something non-citizen. Makes it more fun.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Or do, as a last resort.

Whatever.

I've laid a major claim.

What's the most very silly part?

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

2 out of 3: no retorts.

Let's see if 11 does better I guess.

I've also determined most Town roles:Players for what it's worth.

I can see how that mafia strategy made sense to out protectives/kill the risks then take over.

I even recognize the double mislynch you were planning with actress and body-double and gaining some town cred off it. The extra bus driver and/or escort you invented would be useful to allow Town to think a mislynch or 2 on prots is acceptable.

Few other things I saw you guys plan but meh, I think Town can jump on board at this point. By all means, ISO away. I have, just isn't necessary to present as argument points at this time.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Hello again 1.

[S-FM Grubby]

Hello 3, claim your role plox.

I kept quiet on that last gambit but there is only so much of this I will put up with. Just because I am not talking does not mean I am not watching. Cut that shit out.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Hi babe

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I kept quiet on that last gambit but there is only so much of this I will put up with. Just because I am not talking does not mean I am not watching. Cut that shit out.

... I felt bad for 9, but this game is over.

I pressured very hard and it worked better than I thought it would. Twice.

I feel guilty for being the cause of the premature end but honestly I played to the best of my win con.

I had 2 options:
-reveal the setup and scum now
-draw it out

Drawing it out was too risky, as I recognized the potentially game-altering plays they had planned.

So I revealed all the cards and went for it.

It had the risk of exposing TPRs, but ultimately I recognized by pre-empting all their plays it would force the scum to be revealed.

At first I was on a high of figuring it out, but now I'm sorry I kind of ruined a great setup.

How does this relate to your post?

Read my explanation again. Not as a gambit exposing 11 and protecting 9, but for what it is without any strings attached calling out 11,9,3 based on setup speculation and play the fits like a puzzle piece.

I wrote it for Town to seriously consider and discuss. Not as a gambit.

[S-FM Grubby]

... I felt bad for 9, but this game is over.

I pressured very hard and it worked better than I thought it would. Twice.

I feel guilty for being the cause of the premature end but honestly I played to the best of my win con.

I had 2 options:
-reveal the setup and scum now
-draw it out

Drawing it out was too risky, as I recognized the potentially game-altering plays they had planned.

So I revealed all the cards and went for it.

It had the risk of exposing TPRs, but ultimately I recognized by pre-empting all their plays it would force the scum to be revealed.

At first I was on a high of figuring it out, but now I'm sorry I kind of ruined a great setup.

How does this relate to your post?

Read my explanation again. Not as a gambit exposing 11 and protecting 9, but for what it is without any strings attached calling out 11,9,3 based on setup speculation and play the fits like a puzzle piece.

I wrote it for Town to seriously consider and discuss. Not as a gambit.

I understand where you are coming from. But the risk is both creating a narrative as well as massive conformation bias. There has been plenty of times I have spent an insane amount of time and effort on a read just to come to a flip I have not expected. The foundation of town play is bouncing reads off other players to gain perspective as well as scum hunting. One without the other looses this advantage to a world of deception. Walking away from the principals leads to disaster.
The scum advantage is they have a solid picture of what is going on. They know exactly why what happened and can much more easily read between the lines if they are paying attention. The towns advantage is our numbers, uncoordinated vote block and TPR's gaining information they do not have access to. Revealing our hand is toxic and allows for the scum to counter. Some information must be kept secret in order for us to catch hard slips. I will never agree with any plan that is an all in at this stage and I question the alignment behind your decisions here as that I expect you are either playing on my level or a level above it.
Leave hidden information in the hands of the players to be drawn out at an appropriate time. We have a good player base here. Have faith in them and think of a cost-benefit ratio on the information revealed. Tomorrow would have been a better day to chase this squirrel and you could just as easily done it through a LW unless my read on our players is misplaced.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Mmm, so we're not discussing 8's alignment, but I am interested to hear 4's theory on 8 in general, given he appeared in the lw of the dead lookout

[S-FM Grubby]

I would like to hear more thoughts on other slots that could be scum without pushes to reveal hidden information/tpr's

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I would like to hear more thoughts on other slots that could be scum without pushes to reveal hidden information/tpr's

I respect your valid points.
It was a vicious play for me to do.
While my points are still something to consider.
The main risk is exposing a confirmed TPR.
Overall I'm sorry.

There's more than 1 path to reach the finish.
This way requires ignoring a former cornerstone.
Unfortunately my arguments here on out are from a tunnel.
I'll attempt a different way and won't allow my enthusiasm to fizz.

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

S-fm the eight doctor

I'll just leave my vote here for now.

[S-FM The Seventh Doctor]

So, Fourth, if you already "know" eveything, can you simply tell us what everyone's roles and aligments are? I'm interested to see your chart.

[S-FM The Seventh Doctor]

Also, some of you might not be happy with it (especially Mafia), but I am actually NOT the Body Double. I apprecicate your effort for hunting TPRs, though )

[S-FM The First Doctor]

So 4, you just going to avoid my question? If theres something you know, I want to know, I dont really care for the PM's reluctance to discuss it.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

So you're not denying it at least.

Why did you visit 2?


i havent visited 2. Who is saying that i have?


Interesting.

I am.

My vote stays.


The coroner? Okay..


Why exacly are you trying to prevent 8s lynch?

This strange interaction caught my eye. I'm reading up right now but I want to bring back emphasis on this page.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

Wtf...

I dont believe this info coming from fourth. I think its a last ditch effort to save 8, his teammate.

I need to mull over this for a bit.

For now though,
S-FM The Fourth Doctor

[S-FM The Ninth Doctor]

8 is obviously a important mafia role. He is probably bruiser or something.

[S-FM Buzzy]

Wtf...

I dont believe this info coming from fourth. I think its a last ditch effort to save 8, his teammate.

I need to mull over this for a bit.

For now though,
S-FM The Fourth Doctor

Stop being silly. you're trying to argue 4 is evil because he is defending 8 who is clearly evil in your eyes. If 8 is clearly evil in your eyes, you lynch him first - not 4.

His time will come. Just chill, and play rationally.

[S-FM Buzzy]

Also, some of you might not be happy with it (especially Mafia), but I am actually NOT the Body Double. I apprecicate your effort for hunting TPRs, though )

May I inquire as to why you chose to claim Body Double then?

[S-FM The Seventh Doctor]

May I inquire as to why you chose to claim Body Double then?

Does that matter to you right now? Because Ninth supposedly acted like he's mafia and is giving up on playing.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Has everyone abandoned the game?

Lynch 11-9-3. Just end it.


So 4, you just going to avoid my question? If theres something you know, I want to know, I dont really care for the PM's reluctance to discuss it.

Yeah, 8's literally our only protective role. He swapped me with 6. No one swapped 11 and 9. It's a fabrication of an extra non-existant protective role. Force everyone to answer whether or not they bussed 11 or 9. Guarantee it's another 11-9-3 web. This was their plan to make Town believe they were safe to expose TPRs.

This implies Mafia has a bruiser. *Bypasses redirection*. So 2 actually only saw whoever visited me, since I was bussed with 6. Bruiser bypassed bus and went straight for 6.

Any lookout would frame any protectives on 6 since bruiser bypasses immunities. This is where 8 is framed now.

9 is the bruiser btw. Seriously pretended to be investigative, no room for it.

Now

Look at setup.

We have a coroner, no tailor, janitor, so we have Actress.

Look at TPR claims yesterday. We've had 1 copiable TPR claim from 7. Body Double. Why do you think 11 wants to know whether 7 was bussed? Because 3 visited 7 to copy role. To create another protective role fabrication. And they want to know whether 7 was bussed because 3 needs to claim correctly.

So why is 3 actress, not 11? Because 11 is the tracker who saw 7 perform no action last night. He wants to communicate this to 3 so 3 knows what to claim or whether to claim today.

There's a huge backlog of interaction amongst the 3.

I'm frankly surprised no one else has thought it through. I've literally presented the solution.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Alternatively lynch 8, he will be bus driver (likely the only protective), then lynch 11-9-3

Alternatively lynch me, I'm coroner, then lynch 11-9-3

We have the numbers...

[S-FM The Seventh Doctor]

Ok, let's set up a deal. Host are you reading this?

If 3, 9, and 11 are all mafia just like 4 said, then each one of you should just say this:

"I give up. Fourth Doctor is awesome".

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

This strange interaction caught my eye. I'm reading up right now but I want to bring back emphasis on this page.

I was building a rhythm of interaction so when I pushed the hard pressure, 9's response would have to match the rhythm. The rhythm was too fast paced to lie. Incapable of forming a response, 9 gave up.

Notice I engage 9 with absurd claims to which, 9 responds. This varies significantly when I drop the hard pressure post. 9 has no response other than GG. He could have discussed bruiser, actress likelihoods. He could have agreed that 11 is inexcusably scummy. There was a lot to respond to.

He had 2 options:
1. Agree with me on many points from an informed perspective
2. Disagree and seem scummy in the process

Instead he gave up. Choosing no stance.

It's GG, Town trust me. Let's put up 11.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

After carefully considering everything, I think my push on 4 is irrational, as he confirmed himself as coroner earlier today.

S-FM The Ninth Doctor

At the very least I would like to see where this lynch ends up going.

[S-FM Buzzy]

Does that matter to you right now? Because Ninth supposedly acted like he's mafia and is giving up on playing.

"matter"? Nothing really matters to me. It's just a game. However, I'm curious. That's why I requested if I may inquire as to why you chose to claim Body Double.

You can just refuse my request :P

[S-FM Buzzy]

What determines which roles appear in the game? Did you choose 9 town roles at the start for the sake of balance and distribute them randomly among the players, or did you truly repeatedly pick roles out of a hat?

If you do repeatedly pick roles out of a hat, will you change roles slightly anyway for the sake of balance? i.e. 4 sheriffs by pure coincidence came up! I'll just repick 2 of those to make things less crazy!

[Rassilon]

What determines which roles appear in the game? Did you choose 9 town roles at the start for the sake of balance and distribute them randomly among the players, or did you truly repeatedly pick roles out of a hat?
My Choice, Roles are not random.

If you do repeatedly pick roles out of a hat, will you change roles slightly anyway for the sake of balance? i.e. 4 sheriffs by pure coincidence came up! I'll just repick 2 of those to make things less crazy!
I like cake.

Red

[S-FM Buzzy]

Red

Thanks, and also, does bruiser receive any kind of feedback if he bypasses some kind of misdirection / protection during his attack?

[S-FM Grubby]

I suppose its time for me to start working on this. For starters our numbers-

D3 3 mafia, 8 town- 1 misslynch, 1 night kill
D4 3 mafia, 6 town- 1 misslynch, 1 night kill
D5 3 mafia, 4 town- Lynch or loose.

This is the worst case scenario assuming there is no TvT night kills. 3 bad lynches and we loose. This number will drop to 2 with a TvT night kill so play smart don't go running into a vet with your PR or vig shooting a player unless you are certain he is scum. That town kill can save the town when the player pool gets low and has a much lower chance of hitting town in a 3-4 player pool than a 3-8. If you are going to visit have a reason to. Mitigate the risks by keeping that night movement to educated decisions..

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

3 mislynches? We can make a few mistakes then.

[S-FM Grubby]

Also on night BD feedback-

N1 11,9 and 4 claimed bussed
N2 7 and 3 claimed bussed

The possible situations here is that
1- There are 2 bus drivers 1 town and 1 evil. D1 6 was the 4th bussed player. The evil bus driver chose to preform the factional kill / not act last night.
2- There is only 1 bus driver and either 11,9 or 4 faked BD feedback
3- There are 2 bus drivers and one of them was role blocked N2


I am also inclined to believe that either 9 or 4 is scum given the roles on the field. I will dig further into that later.

[S-FM Grubby]

3 mislynches? We can make a few mistakes then.

I strongly believe there is a town killing out and about. If this player hits a town then we can only afford 2 bad lynches. 2 or 3 may sound like a lot but without a prevented/redirected night kill that puts us at having only 2 or 3 mistakes for the rest of the game. Its not nearly as good of a situation as it sounds like..

[S-FM Grubby]

I would also like to draw attention to this potential slip


Which means whoever 6 was bussed with was actually watched.

Either 9 or 11.
It is very out of place for a player to claim bussed but then in his analysis of the BD night actions exclude himself as potentially being bussed with 6. This could reflect one of 3 things
1- A sloppy oversight in his post
2- He faked feedback and was not bussed
3- He is mafia with a chauffer on his team and knows who was bussed with 6

There are other details in other posts but I am not going to point them out for now

[S-FM Grubby]

On Doc 8-
Given the feedback there is only a few possibilities and the only one where he is town is if he is a Bus Driver. I would have withheld this but I have no doubt the scum team knows it because of how obvious it is (If he is town) and if he was a Body Double he would be dead and not 6. So here's the scenarios:
1- 8 preformed the factional kill and was spotted by the lookout (This fits if 1 player faked BD feedback)
2- 8 is a Chauffer and swapped 6 with another player who was in turn targeted for the factional kill
3- 8 is a Bus Driver and swapped 6 with a player who was targeted for the factional kill

I pushed to keep pressure off him for the first half of the day because I wanted to see him move freely. Unfortunately he used that leniency to avoid interaction or posting content. I am 95% sure he will be our lynch for the day. If he flips town BD it will be a very rough flip but as of right now I believe he will flip as a low performance mafia PR or even just a Mafioso who went to do the factional kill.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Hey guys, I just got back from work -- let me catch up on the posts from today and I'll start responding. I know I'm probably on the hotseat based on the Lookout's LW -- reading through new posts now.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Since 10th is pressuring me, might as well just reveal. Also, 11th helped to blow my TPR cover anyway (thanks dude) so there's no sense in holding back information at this point:

4th is correct -- I'm the Bus Driver. On Night 1, I bussed 6th and 4th (how the hell did 4th figure that out, lol). On Night 2, I bussed 11th and 3rd.

Given it's been said / alluded to so many times already, there's no sense in trying to maintain that information, especially if the PM himself is asking.

I've also been working on a comprehensive read wall which I'll post shortly. For now, my biggest town reads are: 10th, 4th, and 3rd. My biggest scum reads are: 9th, 5th, and 7th. Let me finish typing up the read wall and I'll post the full thing. Also, feel free to throw questions at me in the interim.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

I've also been working on a comprehensive read wall which I'll post shortly. For now, my biggest town reads are: 10th, 4th, and 3rd. My biggest scum reads are: 9th, 5th, and 7th. Let me finish typing up the read wall and I'll post the full thing. Also, feel free to throw questions at me in the interim.

Thats not nice :(

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Hi everyone replacment here. Anything I need to know before I start reading up?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

By popular request (10th's at least), here are my current reads:

Probably Town


10th: Makes reasonable suggestions, asks the Town to consider strategy implications of decisions, generally even-keel. Doesn't rush to judgment and wants to get information out. Was the right pick for PM and seems very Town-sided overall.
4th: Very immersed in strategy discussion. Soft claim was a bit odd, but seems to have his head in the right place in terms of reads. Coroner claim was a bit early -- maybe he's running a gambit? Puts deep thought into his ideas -- seems pretty solidly Town to me.
1st: Seems to be putting some thought in posts, though has reached some odd conclusions in doing so. His pushing on me exposed a TPR unfortunately. Might be a sign of a seemingly Town-sided player actually being scum, but could get more comfortable with him depending on quality of contribution today. Don't agree with his vote on me, but seems to be somewhat thoughtful at least.
3rd: A bit forceful in his posts, but hasn't provided a ton of content overall. Gets a bit defensive when challenged, but makes pretty good, albeit contrarian, types of arguments. Could either be an overwhelmed Townie or a defensive scum -- leaning to the former for now.

Mixed / Null Read


12th: Makes suggestions that don't seem to be well-bounded in strategy (at least not well-thought out strategy), and overall, is a bit inconsistent with his posts. Hasn't posted a ton yet either. Perhaps a new player who is underperforming as Town? Don't get a huge read on him despite the subpar play to this point.
11th: Has made a few helpful suggestions and on occasion and tried to engage players to get them contribute more to discussion. That said, hasn't really dug in as much as others on pushing points forward / offering his own analysis. His pushing on me exposed a TPR unfortunately. Mixed read overall -- maybe just a scummy-seeming Town?
War: Has not participated much at all in this game -- mostly a null read for now which is a bit frustrating to say the least. Should be wary of him though given the site meta of giving lurkers a pass for no particular reason. Read him at null leaning scum, especially if he doesn't start participating more. Silence has become deafening given the game is picking up.

Probably Scum


​5th: Doesn't contribute to discussions in a productive way, his few contributions so far have been a bit off-topic, has focused excessively on being new to the game. Lurks a fair bit as well. Possible this is due to being new, but I have a somewhat bad feeling about him overall.
9th: Alludes to having more information, but never provides it, doesn't respond well to pressure. Avoids direct questions from 4th, jumps on trains, and somewhat disruptive vs. constructive presence in terms of Town discussion. Instead of engaging in discussions, votes impulsively and leaves game. Overall read of being an somewhat more experienced scum player who is taking advantage of the opportunity to lurk. Seems VERY scummy overall.
7th: Posts have tended to be subpar (especially earlier ones), randomly jumped onto lynch trains, and provided poor justifications when he changed his vote (more about perception of him vs. voting for the right people). I'm guessing that he's lying about Body Double and is actually scum. Slim possibility of being a very poor Town player instead.

[S-FM The Fifth Doctor]

Hi everyone replacment here. Anything I need to know before I start reading up?

I'm super swag and confirmed town.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Given the feedback there is only a few possibilities and the only one where he is town is if he is a Bus Driver. I would have withheld this but I have no doubt the scum team knows it because of how obvious it is (If he is town) and if he was a Body Double he would be dead and not 6. So here's the scenarios:

This is the exact same information I released nearly 24 hours ago, not really worth claiming that it would have been preferable to 'withhold'


Yeah, 8's literally our only protective role. He swapped me with 6. No one swapped 11 and 9. It's a fabrication of an extra non-existant protective role. Force everyone to answer whether or not they bussed 11 or 9. Guarantee it's another 11-9-3 web. This was their plan to make Town believe they were safe to expose TPRs.

Okay, I am willing to believe the fabricated bus claim by 11 and 9, but to believe 8 is a Bus Driver (I dont know how to make the pretty colours) is seemingly absurd. 8's posting style and comprehension of the lingo used in the game indicates he is a reasonably competent MF/M player, so why would a Bus Driver, on N1 when all roles are still alive and active, swap the KNOWN PM, whose likely to be surrounded in protectives, with a random player, A player (being yourself) that was likely to be targeted no less, due to your active posting D1. Even if we assume that 8 is a BD and our only protective, that is an assumption we are making NOW, not N1, a BD would never move a mayor/marshall N1 with potential protectives on him.

Now that 8 also claims a driving role, he absolutely reeks of chauffeur. Im not willing to buy the 'incompetent bd play'.
My vote stands on 8, sorry 4.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Hi there eight doc how are you?

pedit: why is 5th confirmed town atm?

[S-FM Grubby]

@8 who did you target each night?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

UPDATE: Whoops, I missed that 7th admitted to lying about being Body Double before submitting my reads. So replace the bit about guessing that he's lying and add that he lied to the Town about his role for no apparent reason, which seems scummy. Also, I might move 9th below 7th on the chance that 7th was running a gambit with his lie to attract scum attention.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Sooooo eight doc is claiming to be busdriver but people are debating on chafurr? Good that give me a starting point to read

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

@8 who did you target each night?

Night 1: 6th and 4th
Night 2: 11th and 3rd

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

This is the exact same information I released nearly 24 hours ago, not really worth claiming that it would have been preferable to 'withhold'



Okay, I am willing to believe the fabricated bus claim by 11 and 9, but to believe 8 is a Bus Driver (I dont know how to make the pretty colours) is seemingly absurd. 8's posting style and comprehension of the lingo used in the game indicates he is a reasonably competent MF/M player, so why would a Bus Driver, on N1 when all roles are still alive and active, swap the KNOWN PM, whose likely to be surrounded in protectives, with a random player, A player (being yourself) that was likely to be targeted no less, due to your active posting D1. Even if we assume that 8 is a BD and our only protective, that is an assumption we are making NOW, not N1, a BD would never move a mayor/marshall N1 with potential protectives on him.

Now that 8 also claims a driving role, he absolutely reeks of chauffeur. Im not willing to buy the 'incompetent bd play'.
My vote stands on 8, sorry 4.

You do realize Bus Driver is a protective role, right? Why wouldn't I try to bus the PM out of harm's way?

Also, I wasn't particularly active during Day 1 -- not sure where you're getting that from.

Your posting style suggest that you are experienced as well, which I respect, but I think that you're off-base with your push on me.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

So im about 7 pages in and i wonder about 7th and tenth doc right now.....

Why are they even reasonably town atm?

Eight doc, how come he's off base? what makes it that we can have 0 town protectives right now and a bunch of investigative?

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Like pushing the idea "we need town protective" is scummy cus its false premise. There have been games with 0 protectives. Is it ideal to have one? yes but its not required also bus driver IMO is not very protective and should actually be not bus driving past night 1 only cus it makes more confusion

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Thread Information
There are currently 5 users browsing this thread. (5 members and 0 guests)
S-FM The War Doctor, S-FM The Eight Doctor, S-FM The Fifth Doctor, S-FM The First Doctor, S-FM The Tenth Doctor

Can someone talk to me or am i going to sit here and be irritated at nothing?

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Sorry I shouldve clarified when I was saying

A player (being yourself) that was likely to be targeted no less, due to your active posting D1
I was actually referring to 4.

Did you not, even once, consider that there were protectives already defending the PM, and that by moving him, you moved him OUT of the protection bubble, making him an easy target? The only person that makes that kind of move is a chauffeur or an idiot. I'm not inclined to believe your the latter.

[S-FM Grubby]

Night 1: 6th and 4th
Night 2: 11th and 3rd


Uh, I thought I told you NOT to visit me last night. But come on - someone bussed me this time!

This is interesting. It semi-confirms there are 2 bus drivers. I need 11 to confirm that he was bussed

And I would like to know why you decided to swap these particular players

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Hi there first doc, talk to me?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

So im about 7 pages in and i wonder about 7th and tenth doc right now.....

Why are they even reasonably town atm?

Eight doc, how come he's off base? what makes it that we can have 0 town protectives right now and a bunch of investigative?

1) 7th seems quite scummish to me, per my reads. 10th seems very thoughtful in his posts if you keep reading what you've missed.

2) 8th is off-base in suggesting that I wouldn't have a reason to bus the PM out of harm's way. He's framing that decision as scummish when I don't agree at all with that. There's nothing to suggest that we have 0 protectives, but on that possibility or the possibility that the protectives decided to guard other players instead (WIFOM assuming Mafia wouldn't attack the PM), I decided to move the PM myself.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Like pushing the idea "we need town protective" is scummy cus its false premise. There have been games with 0 protectives. Is it ideal to have one? yes but its not required also bus driver IMO is not very protective and should actually be not bus driving past night 1 only cus it makes more confusion

You've more elegantly said what I attempted to point out in my response to you. There's no guarantee of any particular role types appearing / not appearing in this setup -- believe the host has said as much too.

[S-FM Grubby]

Hi there eight doc how are you?

pedit: why is 5th confirmed town atm?

Nothing at all. Just ignore that post.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

pedit: why is 5th confirmed town atm? [QUOTE]
He isnt, hes just hasnt been a focus of questioning or suspicion so far, he was just making a joking claim I presume.

[QUOTE] So im about 7 pages in and i wonder about 7th and tenth doc right now.....
Theyre not confirmed town either, 7's play style has been erratic and scummy at best. 10 I had suspicions on earlier, but now that hes PM there is a greater deal of attention on him, and it forces him to be more impartial, reduces his capability to be scum if he is one.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

1) 7th seems quite scummish to me, per my reads. 10th seems very thoughtful in his posts if you keep reading what you've missed.

2) 8th is off-base in suggesting that I wouldn't have a reason to bus the PM out of harm's way. He's framing that decision as scummish when I don't agree at all with that. There's nothing to suggest that we have 0 protectives, but on that possibility or the possibility that the protectives decided to guard other players instead (WIFOM assuming Mafia wouldn't attack the PM), I decided to move the PM myself.

1) dont care if you mirror my scum reads. I read enough on 10 that his contents are very fillery and lack a real purpose IMO.

2) Ok, making a WIFOM argument is like point blanks a shit reason.

Why are you not voting?

S-FM The Eight Doctor

pedit: You realize by agreeing with what i'm saying that town has no protective that means your claim is scum

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Nothing at all. Just ignore that post.

Ok. do you have something else toadd that might help or no?



pedit: why is 5th confirmed town atm?
He isnt, hes just hasnt been a focus of questioning or suspicion so far, he was just making a joking claim I presume.


Theyre not confirmed town either, 7's play style has been erratic and scummy at best. 10 I had suspicions on earlier, but now that hes PM there is a greater deal of attention on him, and it forces him to be more impartial, reduces his capability to be scum if he is one.

Maybe, but it doesn't change anything IMO. I need to read 7 more to figure out if hes sjust bad town or jsut scum. WHats your thoughts?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

1) dont care if you mirror my scum reads. I read enough on 10 that his contents are very fillery and lack a real purpose IMO.

2) Ok, making a WIFOM argument is like point blanks a shit reason.

Why are you not voting?

S-FM The Eight Doctor

pedit: You realize by agreeing with what i'm saying that town has no protective that means your claim is scum

We can agree to disagree on #10. Given you just joined the game, you seem to be willing to cast a quick vote, but that's your call. I'm not voting because I'm pretty confused between 4th's proposal scum slate and the other leads on the table. I also realize you guys want to interrogate me first so I don't see the point in attempting to countertrain someone like #9 did on me.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Nothing at all. Just ignore that post.


We can agree to disagree on #10. Given you just joined the game, you seem to be willing to cast a quick vote, but that's your call. I'm not voting because I'm pretty confused between 4th's proposal scum slate and the other leads on the table. I also realize you guys want to interrogate me first so I don't see the point in attempting to countertrain someone like #9 did on me.

It can make VCA much easier and can leave assoicative for us to use

[S-FM The War Doctor]

dunno what thats there

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

It can make VCA much easier and can leave assoicative for us to use

I have no idea what this means -- VCA?

[S-FM Grubby]

I can say I was very intentionally playing the middle ground earlier in the game. Yesterday I crumbed that I would release more thoughts on the PM election and scum kill so here it is:

I was thinking that the scum team took out the PM N1 and coordinated their vote block in their night chat to elect one of their own as the PM. I intentionally wanted the PM race to stay soft without anyone really "Sticking above the rest" to draw votes so that this scum block would be more apparent and could be drawn out today via having players claim who they voted for PM. It would force the scum team to associate themselves directly with their team mate or lie and risk getting their scum leader lynched. That was kind of ruined when ended up getting elected but is something that could be kept in mind for later elections once I am dead. Although by that point we should have some semi-confirmed town that will just stand out hard enough the vote won't be soft..

[S-FM Squiggly]

Hey guys, what have I missed?

[S-FM The First Doctor]

Maybe, but it doesn't change anything IMO. I need to read 7 more to figure out if hes sjust bad town or jsut scum. WHats your thoughts?

Between his role claims changing, his 'valuable' information on D1, and his earlier plays to withhold information, 7 is, as far as im concerned one of three roles.

Jester - Already resolved by the death of the exec, confirmed exec if 4's role/leads are reliable.
Mafia - Not much to go on for a specific role, leaning more towards basic killing though.
Veteran - Attracting attention with possible damning information, attracting attention with protective claim. Honestly if he is vet, its a bad play, which is why I was inclined to believe jester for some time.

[S-FM Grubby]

Ok. do you have something else toadd that might help or no?

There is nothing that can really be said about that post. I am happy to get a replacement that is willing to read the thread and provide some original thoughts but I am not sure what you want from me here. Maybe once you have finished reading the thread you will have a better picture.

[S-FM Grubby]

Hey guys, what have I missed?

Were you bussed last night?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Hey guys, what have I missed?

I revealed as Bus Driver given everyone is pressuring me due to the Lookout's LW. War got replaced and the new War is actually trying to play. Lots of players are lurking the thread and not participating. That's mostly it.

[S-FM The War Doctor]

Sigh.... its late here and i need sleep i also have work tommorow dunno how much time i can spare after

[S-FM Grubby]

This is the most PR hunting I have ever seen in a game by far. I'm half past being pissed off about it and more leaning towards 'you guys are fucking hopeless' at this point.

@1 If you thought he was a vet why would you reveal that? And I have drawn other conclusions..

[S-FM Squiggly]

I was bussed.

Wanted to see how many claims we had on that.

[S-FM The First Doctor]

@1 If you thought he was a vet why would you reveal that? And I have drawn other conclusions..

Its at the bottom of my list for a reason, Im not confident he is, and given the plays he made, its likely mafia wouldve visited him, at least to investigate him unless they too thought he was a potential vet. So its not like im releasing overly sensitive information. Im also not asking for him to confirm a role, so im not pr hunting, just throwing up my thoughts after the war doctor asked for them

[S-FM Grubby]

Sigh.... its late here and i need sleep i also have work tommorow dunno how much time i can spare after

Well I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts whenever you get around to posting them. A fresh perspective on the game at this point would be very valuable. I am sure you could easily draw unique conclusions given you have no bias from interactions and are able to read from a vanilla mindset.

[S-FM Grubby]

I was bussed.

Wanted to see how many claims we had on that.

Once again this semi confirms there are 2 bus drivers out there. We can easily assume one of them is scum. There is more I have to say but I am going to hold off for a second to give 8 a chance to answer what his reasoning was behind the players he bussed first.

[S-FM Grubby]

I was bussed.

Wanted to see how many claims we had on that.

Did you plan on claiming later today? You very specifically claimed no feedback right off the bat..

And what are your thoughts on Doc 9?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Once again this semi confirms there are 2 bus drivers out there. We can easily assume one of them is scum. There is more I have to say but I am going to hold off for a second to give 8 a chance to answer what his reasoning was behind the players he bussed first.

Sorry, missed your earlier post asking me why I targeted people as I did.

Night 1: 6th and 4th. My intent was to get 6th, the then Prime Minister, out of harm's way by bussing him on Night 1. To be honest, 4th was a bit of a random second target, but came to mind because he was decently vocal on Day 1, but I didn't have a big time townread on him at that point in the game. This might have been a mistake in hindsight given 4th's participation might have made him a Mafia target as well. The outcome is another reason I believe 4th is town.

Night 2: 11th and 3rd. I have a decent townread on 3rd so I decided to bus him instead of 10th, the current PM, especially given what happened on Night 1. 3rd made himself some enemies during Day 2 so it's possible certain players wanted to get rid of him before he could push further. I decided to bus 3rd with 11th because I have a mixed read on 11th and it was an attempt to get scum to attack their own player if 11th is in fact scum. At the very least, it wouldn't be losing one of the top townreads in the event the Mafia went after 10th.

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

Did you plan on claiming later today? You very specifically claimed no feedback right off the bat..

And what are your thoughts on Doc 9?

Not to OMGUS this conversation, but 9th is sort of getting a free pass here despite acting very scummy. I get that you guys want to interrogate me, but I think both can take place at the same time, as you're trying to do.

[S-FM Squiggly]

I wanted to see how many driver claims we got.
I think we can definitely say for sure that mafia has a chauffer at this point.

Not sure if its 8.

[S-FM Squiggly]

Ok, let's set up a deal. Host are you reading this?

If 3, 9, and 11 are all mafia just like 4 said, then each one of you should just say this:

"I give up. Fourth Doctor is awesome".

"I give up, Fourth Doctor is out of his mind"

How is that?

[S-FM Squiggly]

Has everyone abandoned the game?

Lynch 11-9-3. Just end it.



Yeah, 8's literally our only protective role. He swapped me with 6. No one swapped 11 and 9. It's a fabrication of an extra non-existant protective role. Force everyone to answer whether or not they bussed 11 or 9. Guarantee it's another 11-9-3 web. This was their plan to make Town believe they were safe to expose TPRs.

This implies Mafia has a bruiser. *Bypasses redirection*. So 2 actually only saw whoever visited me, since I was bussed with 6. Bruiser bypassed bus and went straight for 6.

Any lookout would frame any protectives on 6 since bruiser bypasses immunities. This is where 8 is framed now.

9 is the bruiser btw. Seriously pretended to be investigative, no room for it.

Now

Look at setup.

We have a coroner, no tailor, janitor, so we have Actress.

Look at TPR claims yesterday. We've had 1 copiable TPR claim from 7. Body Double. Why do you think 11 wants to know whether 7 was bussed? Because 3 visited 7 to copy role. To create another protective role fabrication. And they want to know whether 7 was bussed because 3 needs to claim correctly.

So why is 3 actress, not 11? Because 11 is the tracker who saw 7 perform no action last night. He wants to communicate this to 3 so 3 knows what to claim or whether to claim today.

There's a huge backlog of interaction amongst the 3.

I'm frankly surprised no one else has thought it through. I've literally presented the solution.

Can I buy pot from your dealer?

[S-FM Squiggly]

I have no idea what this means -- VCA?

Unless someone didn't answer you "Vote Count Analysis" you analyze votes on people to get reads on motivation and alignments of it.

It is useless however if no lynch occurs.
Or at least mostly useless.

[S-FM Grubby]

Not to OMGUS this conversation, but 9th is sort of getting a free pass here despite acting very scummy. I get that you guys want to interrogate me, but I think both can take place at the same time, as you're trying to do.

What exactly makes 9 look so scummy to you?

[S-FM The Eight Doctor]

What exactly makes 9 look so scummy to you?

A number of things -- he was very evasive when talking to 4th in the overnight posts with far more sarcasm than analysis of 4th's arguments. He basically denied visiting 2nd by being more concerned about how 4th got that information, which caught me as very odd. He never really addressed 4th overarching theory of who the scum were, merely dismissed it. And then, he attempted to start a train on me, likely because he was concerned that 4th would lead one on him, and in doing so, he didn't explain his vote at all. During Day 1, he also alluded to having more information, but refused to reveal it when pressed by 2nd.

Overall, he has been very reactive instead of participating, sort of bounces in and out, and doesn't engage in conversation -- his answer to a scum accusation is to chuckle and not respond. That's not contributing to pro-Town discussion. He's either an incredibly poor Town player (less likely IMO) or garden variety scum (more likely IMO).

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I would also like to draw attention to this potential slip

It is very out of place for a player to claim bussed but then in his analysis of the BD night actions exclude himself as potentially being bussed with 6. This could reflect one of 3 things
1- A sloppy oversight in his post
2- He faked feedback and was not bussed
3- He is mafia with a chauffer on his team and knows who was bussed with 6

There are other details in other posts but I am not going to point them out for now

You left out the reasoning I had drawn up for that analysis.

Why would you only post the conclusion?

I know you're town. I already spotted the wolves.

My analysis was BD would swap opposing views of 10 From D1.

e.g.

For 10:
9, 11

Against 10:
2, 4

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

On Doc 8-
Given the feedback there is only a few possibilities and the only one where he is town is if he is a Bus Driver. I would have withheld this but I have no doubt the scum team knows it because of how obvious it is (If he is town) and if he was a Body Double he would be dead and not 6. So here's the scenarios:
1- 8 preformed the factional kill and was spotted by the lookout (This fits if 1 player faked BD feedback)
2- 8 is a Chauffer and swapped 6 with another player who was in turn targeted for the factional kill
3- 8 is a Bus Driver and swapped 6 with a player who was targeted for the factional kill

I pushed to keep pressure off him for the first half of the day because I wanted to see him move freely. Unfortunately he used that leniency to avoid interaction or posting content. I am 95% sure he will be our lynch for the day. If he flips town BD it will be a very rough flip but as of right now I believe he will flip as a low performance mafia PR or even just a Mafioso who went to do the factional kill.

*sigh* this would have played better in the first 24 hours. But they're too chicken shit to have opinions now.

1- 9 and 11 faked feedback, 6 was bussed. 6 got bruisered. Look at bruiser mechanics.
2- Look at bruiser mechanics. Chauffeur is unnecessary
3- No, 6 was swapped by bus. bruiser bypasses misdirection and immunities. bruiser kills 6.

IDGAF if you mislynch today.

I already gave you the solution. It's your game to lose.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

4th is correct -- I'm the Bus Driver. On Night 1, I bussed 6th and 4th (how the hell did 4th figure that out, lol).

:thriller::thriller::thriller:
Muahahaha. 8)

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Now ask who bussed 11 & 9. Guarantee there will be no answer. It will fall on 11-9-3. One will claim rbed to perpetuate that escort business.

[S-FM The Third Doctor]

Now. I'm a little over 12 hours later than I expected to be. Some of it was for good reasons, other is I just didn't want to deal with the mind that is 4ourth.

Since we can't post links. Has anyone seen Office Space? You know the guy who invents a 'jump to conclusions' mat so people can physically jump to solving their problems. It's like that.


Can I buy pot from your dealer?

I second this sentiment.

I also just on the record that 4 knows exactly who 8 bussed... and is going out of his way to explain why a Chauffeur isn't a thing, but instead a Bruiser killed 6.

It's not like 2 saw 8 be the only person to visit the dead guy or anything... I feel like i'm taking crazy pills, jesus lord.

4, 7, 8 these people should be the mafia, and no 4 i'm not claiming per your request and I already stated my feedback. I can't handle the autism that doesn't see what's going on.

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

Hi everyone replacment here. Anything I need to know before I start reading up?

I solved the game.

11-Tracker
9-Bruiser
3-Actress


Hi there eight doc how are you?

pedit: why is 5th confirmed town atm?
pedit
pedit
pedit
pedit
pedit

[S-FM The Fourth Doctor]

I can't handle the autism that doesn't see what's going on.

GG.

As far as I'm concerned, I spotted practically every role and action in the game.

If you're going to be personally rude I'll be mostly lurking this game.

I've said everything I've needed to say anyway.

Ten can take it from here.

[S-FM Grubby]

I solved the game.

11-Tracker
9-Bruiser
3-Actress


pedit
pedit
pedit
pedit
pedit

I could believe 9 and 11. But why is it that you are so dead set on 8 being town given his very odd D1 swap? And what makes you sure that there is not 2 Bus drivers? We have feedback suggesting there is both nights