S-FM 143: Your Everyday Average Game

[deathworlds]

Link to setup (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/27424-S-FM-Your-Everyday-Average-Game)



Players List:
1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen

Primary Roles
Host
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Rule Follower
Random Rule Breaker
Random Rule Breaker
Random Rule Breaker
Random Rule Breaker
Random Rule Breaker

Secondary Roles
Godfather
Random Mafia
Random Mafia
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Random Town
Killing Neutral

powerofdeath is the Host!

The Ten Commandments Rules
1. Inactive players will be replaced by another soul.

2. White Bold Text shall not be used by mere mortals, this text shall be used only by me.

3. English shall be the only language used.

4. Do not post links to other websites.

5. Offensive videos/pictures shall not be tolerated.

6. Excessive insulting is not allowed.

7. Thou who edit or delete thine post shall be smited.

8. Quoting any PM's or Feedback by me is forbidden.

9. Usage of invisible ink shall shrink your penis.

10. Communicating with players or through third parties about the game is strictly forbidden



With 12 people alive it takes 7


Day 1 ends at 1:00 PM PDT Tomorrow

[Stealthbomber16]

I've been waiting so long for this.

[Firebringer]

StealthBomber16

I think he is the skyper.

[Stealthbomber16]

Ok then...

[Stealthbomber16]

...why?

[Stealthbomber16]

And then he gets off.
Firebringer

[Firebringer]

And then he gets off.
Firebringer

I am not offline.

You are guilty of skyping. I am a keeper, I have processed the report on you, The warden ahs been informed of your crime.

May god have mercy on your soul.

[Stealthbomber16]

That moment when you realize its a troll vote.

[deathworlds]

Have to fix votes, apparently my math is horrid

7

[Stealthbomber16]

Let me make this perfectly clear
If you guys dont make enough posts per day I WILL go after you. The only variable would be how I do it. But don't worry, I WILL do it. I want this game to be more active than my first game on here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/31382-S-FM-139-Classic-Mafia) and I want it to be less blatantly stupid. Post stuff that is SMART and post stuff that is HELPFUL.

The other thing I'd like to ask is no giant obnoxious text. But I'm not worried about that because Bruno isn't in this game.

[Firebringer]

StealthBomber16 is totally a skyper. Lets lynch this guy now, or else he will reveal roles or something stupid.

I don't like game ruiners like StealthBomber16

-Kick StealthBomber16

[ika]

Tote gonna make a post thats full of nothing now jsut to make setalth mad

[Stealthbomber16]

StealthBomber16 is totally a skyper. Lets lynch this guy now, or else he will reveal roles or something stupid.

I don't like game ruiners like StealthBomber16

-Kick StealthBomber16

Time to file a report for gamethrowing

[Stealthbomber16]

StealthBomber16 is totally a skyper. Lets lynch this guy now, or else he will reveal roles or something stupid.

I don't like game ruiners like StealthBomber16

-Kick StealthBomber16

I'm sensing a pattern here...


-vote StealthBomb16


Start talking, Ultron.

-vote StealthBomber16


Corrected.

Only way to play, put pressure on get some claims on the table. Lock it in to see who lied in future when role list starts dwindling.

Vote StealthBomber16!!!

Obviously Ultron.

Put some pressure on StealthBomber16, lets get that role claim!

If he and I were allies why would I continuously say to vote him up?

Evil detector still says:

-vote Stealthbomber16

Push a lynch on StealthBomber16!

You always say my name with a capital B.

[Hypersniper]

Waffles ^^

[BananaCucho]

Let me make this perfectly clear
If you guys dont make enough posts per day I WILL go after you. The only variable would be how I do it. But don't worry, I WILL do it. I want this game to be more active than my first game on here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/31382-S-FM-139-Classic-Mafia) and I want it to be less blatantly stupid. Post stuff that is SMART and post stuff that is HELPFUL.

The other thing I'd like to ask is no giant obnoxious text. But I'm not worried about that because Bruno isn't in this game.
Rule following citizen confirmed.


StealthBomber16

I think he is the skyper.

Rule following town power role confirmed.

Remember guys, primary roles are more important. We must root out and stop the rule breakers using our secondary roles and the game must go four days or more.

Host keep an eye on Mafia or Neutral killing that make dumb targets/obvious doctor heal targets or that chooses not to target.

Also, FINALLY

[RLVG]

Oh, this started?

SHIT

I'm totally a law abidding citizen.

[BananaCucho]

Oh, this started?

SHIT

I'm totally a law abidding citizen.
It's rules, not laws. I am wondering if you actually read that role card and I'm definitely keeping my eye on you.

[Stealthbomber16]

It's rules, not laws. I am wondering if you actually read that role card and I'm definitely keeping my eye on you.

*buddies with bananacucho*

[Firebringer]

Rule following citizen confirmed.



Rule following town power role confirmed.

Remember guys, primary roles are more important. We must root out and stop the rule breakers using our secondary roles and the game must go four days or more.

Host keep an eye on Mafia or Neutral killing that make dumb targets/obvious doctor heal targets or that chooses not to target.

Also, FINALLY

You honestly can't read me, wanna know why?

I haven't even read my role card yet.

I will after this day is finished.

GL until then "reading" me.

[BananaCucho]

You honestly can't read me, wanna know why?

I haven't even read my role card yet.

I will after this day is finished.

GL until then "reading" me.
I don't believe this for a second lol

[Firebringer]

I don't believe this for a second lol

Believe it or don't. I don't care.

Your guys "reading" tactics, will never work on me.

Keep thinking it does though, it will get you very far.

[BananaCucho]

Believe it or don't. I don't care.

Your guys "reading" tactics, will never work on me.

Keep thinking it does though, it will get you very far.
lol someone is still butthurt

[Firebringer]

lol someone is still butthurt

-mute BananaCucho

I don't know why I engage with trolls.

I would call BananaCucho Evil right now but I can never really understand what a trolls role is.

Its like trying to read myself, it can't be done.

[Stealthbomber16]

-mute BananaCucho

I don't know why I engage with trolls.

I would call BananaCucho Evil right now but I can never really understand what a trolls role is.

Its like trying to read myself, it can't be done.

How to read yourself

Type the following words

your
self

Read them.

[Firebringer]

How to read yourself

Type the following words

your
self

Read them.

Horrible joke.

We should lynch you just for that.

[BananaCucho]

-mute BananaCucho

I don't know why I engage with trolls.

I would call BananaCucho Evil right now but I can never really understand what a trolls role is.

Its like trying to read myself, it can't be done.
Alright, all funny business aside I still figure you for a rule follower as of now.

It'll be interesting to see which lurkers make themselves apparent from day 1 please keep an eye on that too host

[Firebringer]

Lets do some fun statistics on your guess.


Assuming the following:
A) You are a rule breaker
B) I didn't read my role

Then we look at the actual facts:
1) There are 13 players, 7 Rule Followers, 5 Rule Breakers. 1 Host.

So doing some small manipulation:
We will take out 1 player (You), and a Rule Breaker (I am assuming is you)
2) That means 7 players are Rule Followers. With 4 Rule Breakers, and 1 Host.


Your chances of guessing right (if you are a rule breaker) is:
58% of being Rule Follower
33% of being Rule Breaker
8.33% of being Host

We can reanalyze this based on your role, pretty good chances of me being Rule Follower based on that. :)

Even if you are a rule follower, you still have:
50% Rule Follower
41% Rule Breaker
8.33% of Host

So calling me a rule follower is like flipping a coin. Could be heads or tails, you get decent odds though.

I like the long odds though

BananaCucho

read that.

[BananaCucho]

Lets do some fun statistics on your guess.


Assuming the following:
A) You are a rule breaker
B) I didn't read my role

Then we look at the actual facts:
1) There are 13 players, 7 Rule Followers, 5 Rule Breakers. 1 Host.

So doing some small manipulation:
We will take out 1 player (You), and a Rule Breaker (I am assuming is you)
2) That means 7 players are Rule Followers. With 4 Rule Breakers, and 1 Host.


Your chances of guessing right (if you are a rule breaker) is:
58% of being Rule Follower
33% of being Rule Breaker
8.33% of being Host

We can reanalyze this based on your role, pretty good chances of me being Rule Follower based on that. :)

Even if you are a rule follower, you still have:
50% Rule Follower
41% Rule Breaker
8.33% of Host

So calling me a rule follower is like flipping a coin. Could be heads or tails, you get decent odds though.

I like the long odds though

BananaCucho

read that.
I like it. Now we're thinking.

Care to give an analysis of RLVG as well?

[RLVG]

Lets do some fun statistics on your guess.


Assuming the following:
A) You are a rule breaker
B) I didn't read my role

Then we look at the actual facts:
1) There are 13 players, 7 Rule Followers, 5 Rule Breakers. 1 Host.

So doing some small manipulation:
We will take out 1 player (You), and a Rule Breaker (I am assuming is you)
2) That means 7 players are Rule Followers. With 4 Rule Breakers, and 1 Host.


Your chances of guessing right (if you are a rule breaker) is:
58% of being Rule Follower
33% of being Rule Breaker
8.33% of being Host

We can reanalyze this based on your role, pretty good chances of me being Rule Follower based on that. :)

Even if you are a rule follower, you still have:
50% Rule Follower
41% Rule Breaker
8.33% of Host

So calling me a rule follower is like flipping a coin. Could be heads or tails, you get decent odds though.

I like the long odds though

BananaCucho

read that.

/r/theydidthemath

Good guy Fire, giving us good math.

[Dagaen]

Hello, all! GL HF! To all new faces around: my name is Dagaen and I'm awesome. Don't bother to put votes on me. Why?

1st: because it will make you look scummy.

2nd: I'm unvotable.

Dagean

See? Nothing. I'm that awesome.

[Dagaen]

Anyway, here's few fun facts:

1) You secondary alingment doesn't really matter. Mafia, Town, Evil Neutral...Everyone can win together as long as we follow rules (I've alredy asked Host if my interpretation is correct, but let's assume it is).

2) Killing people at night is useless and risky for rule followers.

3) Investigating doesn't really matter as well.

4) We can't win without killing right people. Killing roles should probably abstain from doing anything for now. Yes, even Mafs.

5) The key to victory is using our omnipotent Host. For example, if we want to find out who Neutral Killer is, then all we have to do it to ask Host the same question: "Is player X a neutral killing?", where X is a name of other player. Everyone will ask the same question, but about different player. Host has no reason to not reveal such info, so one of us will get the positive answer and Tomorrow
we will have a great chance of knowing who that is. If someone lies, he can get modkilled.

6) Mafia should be aware of Skypers. If you are going to kill someone make it random or rotate your decision maker every Night. Also: killing Rule Followers increases the chances of Skypers' winning. Once again: abstaining is goood.

7) Number of posts matters! To effectively disable a Lurker we should try to have equal number of posts. If all players have e.g. 10 posts, Lurker is useless. So guys, you should try to spam a bit more. And Stealthbomber16 - calm down.

So basically everything goes down to behavioral analysis. I propose to abstain from killing anyone until we get full role list - that would be a start. And it will help us to achieve the 4-days part of our win condition.

Or we can, you know, mass roleclaim right away.

Any thoughts?

[Dagaen]

Highest number of posts: 9. Bomber, try to not get over 12 posts. Rest of us should spam a bit more to cross the magical border of 6 posts per person.

[Dagaen]

Link to setup in a first post please.

Also: is my interpretation is correct? Can rule-following Town and rule-following Mafia win together?

[BananaCucho]

Dagaen I have one problem only with your analysis. Mafia or nuetral killing that fail to act are in risk of getting host killed for gamethrowing. I don't doubt one of them is probably a gamethrower.

[BananaCucho]

And if host kills 2 rule followers we are screwed. We need to see interaction to help host realize who is rule breaker

[Stealthbomber16]

Link to setup in a first post please.

Also: is my interpretation is correct? Can rule-following Town and rule-following Mafia win together?

There are two roles lists. Role Followers all win together, but Town and Mafia, regardless of primary condition, do not win together. I think thats pretty clear, at least.

My only question is
How will this work on the ladder?

[Stealthbomber16]

Allow me to clarify:

Just to clarify, the game ends when Secondary Win Conditions are met, and then you check Primary Win Conditions to see which are satisfied?
The game is just as normal, it ends when mafia controls the lynch, neutral controls the lynch, or town eliminates everyone else.
Primary Win Conditions are checked next. The host checks to see if the gamethrowers lost the game, if the Com Hunters target was lynched/survived to the end, if skypers at one point controlled the vote, etc. You can still win your Primary but the game was intended to be played for Secondary win conditions.

[Orpz]

hey PoD

dont modkill me

[Orpz]

im town

[Orpz]

Dagaen

[Dagaen]

Dagaen I have one problem only with your analysis. Mafia or nuetral killing that fail to act are in risk of getting host killed for gamethrowing. I don't doubt one of them is probably a gamethrower.

Gratz on spelling my name correctly:)

PoD is not stupid, he can read this thread, you know. Mafia is safe from being modkilled since if all 3 of them decide to abstain it will be obvious they follow my plan. Same can go for evil neutral. Abstaining from killing is not an autolose.

All depends on how do you interpret the setup. We have "primary WIN conditions", but "secondary END conditions". So I'm waiting for Host to clear this up.

If Bomber is right, and Town can't win with Mafia, then we should all try to find Neutral first to minimize amount of deaths per night.

Here's the plan:

Send to Host following question: "Is X a Neutral Killer?".

Firebringer will ask about Stealthbomber
Ika will ask about Firebringer
RLVG will ask about Mattzed
Stealthbomber will ask about Lolunic0rn
Bananacucho will ask about Fatalis
Mattzed will ask about Orpz
Superjack will ask about RLVG
Orpz will ask about Superjack
Hypersniper will ask about Bananacucho
Lolunic0rn will ask about Ika
Fatalis will ask about Dagaen
Dagaen will ask about Hypersniper

Random.orged

[Orpz]

2nd: I'm unvotable.

Dagean

See? Nothing. I'm that awesome.

lies

[Orpz]

Gratz on spelling my name correctly:)

PoD is not stupid, he can read this thread, you know. Mafia is safe from being modkilled since if all 3 of them decide to abstain it will be obvious they follow my plan. Same can go for evil neutral. Abstaining from killing is not an autolose.

All depends on how do you interpret the setup. We have "primary WIN conditions", but "secondary END conditions". So I'm waiting for Host to clear this up.

If Bomber is right, and Town can't win with Mafia, then we should all try to find Neutral first to minimize amount of deaths per night.

Here's the plan:

Send to Host following question: "Is X a Neutral Killer?".

Firebringer will ask about Stealthbomber
Ika will ask about Firebringer
RLVG will ask about Mattzed
Stealthbomber will ask about Lolunic0rn
Bananacucho will ask about Fatalis
Mattzed will ask about Orpz
Superjack will ask about RLVG
Orpz will ask about Superjack
Hypersniper will ask about Bananacucho
Lolunic0rn will ask about Ika
Fatalis will ask about Dagaen
Dagaen will ask about Hypersniper

Random.orged

Everyone follow this.
PoD knows who the Neutral Killer is, so anyone besides the neutral killer who doesn't follow this is probably a Rulebreaker and should be modkilled.

Since this helps out PoD by forcing the Rulebreakers' hands, he has no reason to deny us answers

[Stealthbomber16]

Host does not have to answer questions. We can't rely on PoD.

[Orpz]

Host does not have to answer questions. We can't rely on PoD.

neutral killer confirmed

Stealthbomber16

[Stealthbomber16]

This will be my final post for now to prevent lurkers from lurking.

I want everyone to speculate on what Rule Breakers there are in the game and what roles they are.

Personally I think the mafia consists of at least one of the following:
Skyper, Lurker
The town consists of at least one of the following:
Gamethrower, Com Hunter, Skyper
The neutral is probably a rule follower but if I have to guess a rule breaker role I'd say Lurker.

Next note:
If you are jailed, your jailor may be a Mass Murderer. I don't know why this works, it just does. Please state if you were Jailed at night.

Next note:
The skypers either dont exist at all or have 3+ people in them.

Next note:
Do not trust ANY investigative lead. Com Hunters are in the game, so we gotta be careful.

Going to leave my vote on a random person who hasn't posted yet.
Mattzed
decided by random.org

[MattZed]

Oh, it appears people have already beaten me to the monologue I scripted in my head before this began. Yeah, let's do some random lynching today if we can. Namely, the outcomes, depending on primary role of person lynched:

Rule Follower: Suboptimal, but possibly worth the risk
Gamethrower: Ideally, these people are actually better modkilled, so that we don't have to worry about "counter-gamethrowing" to force their secondary role to win. Still, it would be better to know who they are.
Skyper: This would be amazing if we could pull it off, and would reveal that there is a Skyper faction. Getting a train would be difficult, however.
Com hunter: They would lose instantly, one scum down, making it a lot harder for us to lose
Lurker: Same as above.

I disagree strongly, however, with Daegan's interpretation of how we should play this game.


Anyway, here's few fun facts:

1) You secondary alingment doesn't really matter. Mafia, Town, Evil Neutral...Everyone can win together as long as we follow rules (I've alredy asked Host if my interpretation is correct, but let's assume it is).
Secondary role doesn't affect win conditions very much, yes. However, we should still semi-actively pursue our secondary win conditions so that the host can sort out the people who are tying to make their win condition lose. (IE: gamethrowers)



2) Killing people at night is useless and risky for rule followers.
This is the point I disagree with most. A night kill can kill rule breakers. (unless they are night immune. I would suspect at least one of them is) It's good for us for the same reason as a random lynch. In fact, it's better, because skypers are less able to influence the kill, (hopefully they don't have the neut killing) and a kill on the com hunter's target is 100% a lose to the com hunter, no questions asked. It also gives a good mafia night chat for the host to start reading out rule breakers. If we can kill a rule breaker, we can start puzzling out who the other rule breakers are.

There of course is the downside that it may make the game end in under 4 days. I've asked deathworlds for clarification on if this feature is still in the game, but if it is, then I honestly wouldn't worry about it until it looks like the game is about to end short.



3) Investigating doesn't really matter as well.
See my discussion on your first point. It's probably best for the game if we, barring some people giving strong rule-breaker tells, follow the facsimile of our secondary roles.


4) We can't win without killing right people. Killing roles should probably abstain from doing anything for now. Yes, even Mafs.
Nope, see my response to the second point.


5) The key to victory is using our omnipotent Host. For example, if we want to find out who Neutral Killer is, then all we have to do it to ask Host the same question: "Is player X a neutral killing?", where X is a name of other player. Everyone will ask the same question, but about different player. Host has no reason to not reveal such info, so one of us will get the positive answer and Tomorrow
we will have a great chance of knowing who that is. If someone lies, he can get modkilled.
Yes, the host is key to victory, especially in using the mod kill. However, your particular answer is a bit fanciful. The host may well not want to answer questions so as to not give certain rulebreakers info that helps them. (Skypers knowing where the roles they need to take out are, for instance.) In fact, I would encourage the host to remember that they can strategically lie, just to see how players react to your info.



6) Mafia should be aware of Skypers. If you are going to kill someone make it random or rotate your decision maker every Night. Also: killing Rule Followers increases the chances of Skypers' winning. Once again: abstaining is goood.
I agree that they should definitely be aware. However, I'd much rather them actively discuss who to kill than to actually give some rule-breaker reads in mafia chat.


7) Number of posts matters! To effectively disable a Lurker we should try to have equal number of posts. If all players have e.g. 10 posts, Lurker is useless. So guys, you should try to spam a bit more. And Stealthbomber16 - calm down.
I agree that this would be effective, but I don't think deathworlds would find this to be quite legal if we enforced posting rules for us to follow. Host, would this rule be considering circumnavigating the "can't say you're silenced" rule, or otherwise be illegal?

If we get a negative answer to that question, then yes, I'd strongly like it if everyone would keep posts in the comfy 6-11 range. However, given the activity level of past games, I worry if this is at all tenable.


So basically everything goes down to behavioral analysis. I propose to abstain from killing anyone until we get full role list - that would be a start. And it will help us to achieve the 4-days part of our win condition.

Or we can, you know, mass roleclaim right away.

Any thoughts?
Abstaining from killing is bad. Mass roleclaims would be AWFUL. Good luck reading anyone if all of the roles are out there. It's also one of our few defenses against skypers. The game would be a pure WIFOM with all roles out there, which is why host didn't implement this. "Was that person killed by mafia because he wasn't part of the skypers, or because of random chance?" etc. etc.

[Hypersniper]

So we rely on a role who probably not even give us reliance

[Orpz]

anyways it would be a very very very very good idea for a doctor to heal me.

I am a Vigilante and it would be OP as fuck if I was a rulebreaker so you can trust I'm a good guy Vigilante.

my bullets are also guided by the hands of jesus. killed 3 scums with 3 shots and earned big fm mvp

I would say Lookout on me as well but I'm not that vain

[Dagaen]

Stealthbomber's post count = 13... It will be very hard to stop Lurker's win if he will manage to silence one person. And if he wins we will be half-way to losing.

So far Bomber doesn't help us win at all. I'm not going to vote him, because he will spam even more.

[Orpz]

So we rely on a role who probably not even give us reliance

confirmed Town rulebreaker

[MattZed]

For now, a vote to someone who hasn't voted yet.
Superjack



Mafia is safe from being modkilled since if all 3 of them decide to abstain it will be obvious they follow my plan. Same can go for evil neutral. Abstaining from killing is not an autolose.
This is my point. If we agree to not kill, you're letting gamethrowers in the mafia get an easier pass. Further, if we prolong the game by killing less, it becomes easier for lurkers to accomplish their win condition due to the silenced surviving and having more time to silence.

I am presently uncertain if you haven't thought my point through, or if you're a rulebreaker trying to create a meta that makes it easier to win. (I could very much see why a com hunter wouldn't like night kills)

[SuperJack]

BAM. I'm coming out my closet.

[BananaCucho]

Allow me to clarify:

The game is just as normal, it ends when mafia controls the lynch, neutral controls the lynch, or town eliminates everyone else.
Primary Win Conditions are checked next. The host checks to see if the gamethrowers lost the game, if the Com Hunters target was lynched/survived to the end, if skypers at one point controlled the vote, etc. You can still win your Primary but the game was intended to be played for Secondary win conditions.
This is wrong. Primary conditions determine win. Secondary end condition doesn't even mention win.

Host can reveal who killer and mafia are if he wants but the point is to satisfy primary win condtions.

[RLVG]

Here's the plan:

Send to Host following question: "Is X a Neutral Killer?".

Firebringer will ask about Stealthbomber
Ika will ask about Firebringer
RLVG will ask about Mattzed
Stealthbomber will ask about Lolunic0rn
Bananacucho will ask about Fatalis
Mattzed will ask about Orpz
Superjack will ask about RLVG
Orpz will ask about Superjack
Hypersniper will ask about Bananacucho
Lolunic0rn will ask about Ika
Fatalis will ask about Dagaen
Dagaen will ask about Hypersniper

Random.orged

Here's a better idea.
We ask the Akinator Genie who the neutral killer is. If he fails to answer, Cleverbot.

I have a feeling that we won't get the answer we need, like simply not being answered.

[MattZed]

BAM. I'm coming out my closet.
This is a start.
Superjack
(also apologize for missing the case of your name)

Now, to start a little pressure on the person trying to set up a sketchy meta.
Dagaen

[Stealthbomber16]

This is a start.
Superjack
(also apologize for missing the case of your name)

Now, to start a little pressure on the person trying to set up a sketchy meta.
Dagaen

welcome to the club man
Lolunic0rn
Next on the list...

[SuperJack]

So. Hmm

Are questioned asked to the host made public?

Are answers asked to the host made public?

[Dagaen]

This is my point. If we agree to not kill, you're letting gamethrowers in the mafia get an easier pass. Further, if we prolong the game by killing less, it becomes easier for lurkers to accomplish their win condition due to the silenced surviving and having more time to silence.

I am presently uncertain if you haven't thought my point through, or if you're a rulebreaker trying to create a meta that makes it easier to win. (I could very much see why a com hunter wouldn't like night kills)

You do realize that I wrote it BEFORE you posted, right?

About your big post: I agree with most of those points, but only if you are right about setup. I'm going to discuss it further after Host confirms how wincons work.

And with that I'm going to sleep. Spam a bit more guys, everybody needs to have at least 7 posts!

[SuperJack]

If there was multiple Lurkers, do their win conditions work with each other? For example, Lurker A can silence someone day 2, Lurker B can silence someone day 3. Then Lurkers win?

Also, don't just ask for Neutral killing. Ask For Mafia Or Neutral Killing. If you are going to use you're question as an extra investigative role.

[Dagaen]

If there was multiple Lurkers, do their win conditions work with each other? For example, Lurker A can silence someone day 2, Lurker B can silence someone day 3. Then Lurkers win?

Also, don't just ask for Neutral killing. Ask For Mafia Or Neutral Killing. If you are going to use you're question as an extra investigative role.

The goal is to minimize amount of night kills. We need to find Neutral, not Mafia.

And MattZed - your vote didn't count.

I'm REALLY going to bed now:P

[Hypersniper]

I think that a vote today would be a very American move whike we should di a british move of listening to superjack a norwegian move of confuding everrone with bug posts full of shit about nothing or a french nivevand just do nothing

Daegan one sec dobt go I need to ask u something

[Stealthbomber16]

Everyone is showing up. We just need Lolunic0rn, whom I see lurking, and then Fatalis.

POST

[MattZed]

You do realize that I wrote it BEFORE you posted, right?

I do. But if you have thought through the setup so much, why is it you didn't discuss the notion that killing roles killing may be GOOD for us? My point is that I had to make my point.



As a side note, I would appreciate some clarification on how the vote tag works if I'm misusing it.

[Hypersniper]

LOLICORN STAHP LURKING U BLEPING BLEEP BLEEP OF A BLEEP BLEEPY BLEEP HEAD

[Lolunic0rn]

Hi. I'm here, your welcome. This is my first game so don't expect too much. All that's left now is Fatalis

[SuperJack]

The goal is to minimize amount of night kills. We need to find Neutral, not Mafia.

And MattZed - your vote didn't count.

I'm REALLY going to bed now:P

It requires honesty. The Skypers are not going to reveal the killer. And most likely neither are the game throwers. And not the Com lurkers. So you are already lowering the chance of using it to find an evil role.

Where as if we did both Mafia and Killing, we have increased our chances of finding someone to lynch.

[MattZed]

It requires honesty. The Skypers are not going to reveal the killer. And most likely neither are the game throwers. And not the Com lurkers. So you are already lowering the chance of using it to find an evil role.

Where as if we did both Mafia and Killing, we have increased our chances of finding someone to lynch.
If we somehow all agreed to ask questions as he proposed, then the host would know if someone falsely reported their feedback.

[SuperJack]

If we somehow all agreed to ask questions as he proposed, then the host would know if someone falsely reported their feedback.

I'm still thinking and reading this shilz.

[deathworlds]

Hello everyone, your host is back and will answer questions momentarily after beautifying the original post.

[SuperJack]

Totally depends on if we are allowed to reveal out Host feedback.

"Quoting any PM's or Feedback by me is forbidden."

Not sure if its banning all PM's, or just the deathworlds PM.



Are we allowed to reveal our answers from the Host?

[deathworlds]

Link to setup in a first post please.

Also: is my interpretation is correct? Can rule-following Town and rule-following Mafia win together?

Yes


There are two roles lists. Role Followers all win together, but Town and Mafia, regardless of primary condition, do not win together. I think thats pretty clear, at least.

My only question is
How will this work on the ladder?

It will work well on the ladder.


Host, would this rule be considering circumnavigating the "can't say you're silenced" rule, or otherwise be illegal?

What you are planning is perfectly legal.




Are questioned asked to the host made public?

Are answers asked to the host made public?

No and No


If there was multiple Lurkers, do their win conditions work with each other? For example, Lurker A can silence someone day 2, Lurker B can silence someone day 3. Then Lurkers win?


Lurker(s) must silence 2 players 2 times each. That is unless they target the same person.




Are we allowed to reveal our answers from the Host?

Yes. Just don't quote / screenshot

[BananaCucho]

The goal is to minimize amount of night kills. We need to find Neutral, not Mafia.

And MattZed - your vote didn't count.

I'm REALLY going to bed now:P
Stop. The goal isn't to minimize night kills, its to have host host kill rule breakers. Say for example we follow your olab and find a game throwing SK. We lynch and he just won and we can only allow two rule breakers to win.

Everybody needs to rethink this.

[SuperJack]

Stop. The goal isn't to minimize night kills, its to have host host kill rule breakers. Say for example we follow your olab and find a game throwing SK. We lynch and he just won and we can only allow two rule breakers to win.

Everybody needs to rethink this.

Can Neutral Killing gamethrow?

[Fatalis]

chill yo im in the other side of the world

guys i think mattzed stealthbomber and lolicorn are bad

source: im never wrong

[BananaCucho]

Follow your plan* meaning SK doesn't kill and we find him through whoever suggested the host questions.

[SuperJack]

I think someone should post a post count for each player, i'm too lazy to do it.

[deathworlds]

Can Neutral Killing gamethrow?

Yes, all secondary roles can have a primary being Gamethrower.

[Fatalis]

lets all just spam to 15 posts

[MattZed]

Might I suggest we put questions in the setup thread, to keep them together and post counts here more reasonable?

I still have some unanswered questions in the setup thread.

So, in response to some of those answers, it seems we should ideally be posting at least 6 time per day to reveal non-silenced condition, but not so many that a lurker can hide with, say 10 posts.

Counting is hard, but here is my count of posts as of this one:
Stealthbomber16 - 16
BananaCucho
Firebringer - 8
Orpz - 8
SuperJack - 8
Dagaen - 7
MattZed - 6 (counting this one)
Hypersniper - 4
RVLG - 3
Fatalis - 2
Ika - 1
Lolunic0rn - 1

[Fatalis]

Might I suggest we put questions in the setup thread, to keep them together and post counts here more reasonable?

I still have some unanswered questions in the setup thread.

So, in response to some of those answers, it seems we should ideally be posting at least 6 time per day to reveal non-silenced condition, but not so many that a lurker can hide with, say 10 posts.

Counting is hard, but here is my count of posts as of this one:
Stealthbomber16 - 16
BananaCucho
Firebringer - 8
Orpz - 8
SuperJack - 8
Dagaen - 7
MattZed - 6 (counting this one)
Hypersniper - 4
RVLG - 3
Fatalis - 2
Ika - 1
Lolunic0rn - 1

15 or 20 posts master race we can't analyse shit with 10 posts

[deathworlds]

Might I suggest we put questions in the setup thread, to keep them together and post counts here more reasonable?


I cannot allow that, keep all questions private via PM or public via day chat.

[MattZed]

I cannot allow that, keep all questions private via PM or public via day chat.

I'm not sure I follow, since the setup thread is still public.

Also, BananaCucho should said 10 in my post.

[deathworlds]

I'm not sure I follow, since the setup thread is still public.

Also, BananaCucho should said 10 in my post.

Any more questions in the setup thread is forbidden.

[MattZed]

This setup has 5 scum and 7 non-scum. As I said in my first post, I'm in favor of getting some sort of a lynch out. Let's start a train.

Hypersniper

(also I just found the thread for how to vote. I'm not sure it should be in Forum Mafia Parking without a link to it in other subforums)

[Fatalis]

This setup has 5 scum and 7 non-scum. As I said in my first post, I'm in favor of getting some sort of a lynch out. Let's start a train.

Hypersniper

(also I just found the thread for how to vote. I'm not sure it should be in Forum Mafia Parking without a link to it in other subforums)

7 > 5 pls enlighten me

[BananaCucho]

Yes, all secondary roles can have a primary being Gamethrower.
See what I mean? Now that I'm home from work I can put a little more time into explaining my thought process.

Host + Rule Followers can only win on two conditions:

1. Game lasts 4 days
2. No more than 2 rule breakers can win.

So we should be focused not on helping everyone survive, but stopping the rule breakers from winning. Observe these in particular:

Skypers: I can guarentee you that there are 0 or 2 skypers in game, most likely 2. Host would not make skypers if there were not at least 2 of them. Skypers have to control half of the vote - if they are all killed or lynched they will lose.

Com-hunter: Their target has to be either lynched, or survive til the end. If they are killed at night I'm pretty sure they lose, but just to be sure: If com-hunter chooses to lynch his target and his target is killed at night, does com-hunter lose?
Therefore, if we kill com-hunters target at night, he loses. If he wants them to survive and he is lynched, he loses.

Lurker: Only has to successfully silence people twice. This, IMO, is the easiest win condition for the rule breakers. If we kill him at night or lynch him he cannot use his ability, and he loses.

Gamethrower: This is the only one where it gets complicated. However I think it is safe to assume there is a maximum of 1 gamethrower in the game; if there were a town and mafia game thrower each, one of them are guaranteed a win. I think the only way we can stop him is the host killing him. We don't have any power over that other than observing whether or not he's trying to throw.

With 13 people in the game I am confident we can make it last 4 days even with mafia/neutral killing doing their jobs each day. The strategy of not killing at night however is dangerous, even for vigilantes. If a vig has a suspicion of a skyper or lurker he should get them.

I am pretty sure Dagaen understands this, or if he doesn't he will after reading this post.

All of that being said, I'll now go back and read through some of the longer posts I kinda skipped over while at work, but I'll leave this here for now:

RLVG

[deathworlds]

If com-hunter chooses to lynch his target and his target is killed at night, does com-hunter lose?


Yes

[BananaCucho]

Oh, it appears people have already beaten me to the monologue I scripted in my head before this began. Yeah, let's do some random lynching today if we can. Namely, the outcomes, depending on primary role of person lynched:

Rule Follower: Suboptimal, but possibly worth the risk
Gamethrower: Ideally, these people are actually better modkilled, so that we don't have to worry about "counter-gamethrowing" to force their secondary role to win. Still, it would be better to know who they are.
Skyper: This would be amazing if we could pull it off, and would reveal that there is a Skyper faction. Getting a train would be difficult, however.
Com hunter: They would lose instantly, one scum down, making it a lot harder for us to lose
Lurker: Same as above.

I disagree strongly, however, with Daegan's interpretation of how we should play this game.


Secondary role doesn't affect win conditions very much, yes. However, we should still semi-actively pursue our secondary win conditions so that the host can sort out the people who are tying to make their win condition lose. (IE: gamethrowers)



This is the point I disagree with most. A night kill can kill rule breakers. (unless they are night immune. I would suspect at least one of them is) It's good for us for the same reason as a random lynch. In fact, it's better, because skypers are less able to influence the kill, (hopefully they don't have the neut killing) and a kill on the com hunter's target is 100% a lose to the com hunter, no questions asked. It also gives a good mafia night chat for the host to start reading out rule breakers. If we can kill a rule breaker, we can start puzzling out who the other rule breakers are.

There of course is the downside that it may make the game end in under 4 days. I've asked deathworlds for clarification on if this feature is still in the game, but if it is, then I honestly wouldn't worry about it until it looks like the game is about to end short.



See my discussion on your first point. It's probably best for the game if we, barring some people giving strong rule-breaker tells, follow the facsimile of our secondary roles.


Nope, see my response to the second point.


Yes, the host is key to victory, especially in using the mod kill. However, your particular answer is a bit fanciful. The host may well not want to answer questions so as to not give certain rulebreakers info that helps them. (Skypers knowing where the roles they need to take out are, for instance.) In fact, I would encourage the host to remember that they can strategically lie, just to see how players react to your info.



I agree that they should definitely be aware. However, I'd much rather them actively discuss who to kill than to actually give some rule-breaker reads in mafia chat.


I agree that this would be effective, but I don't think deathworlds would find this to be quite legal if we enforced posting rules for us to follow. Host, would this rule be considering circumnavigating the "can't say you're silenced" rule, or otherwise be illegal?

If we get a negative answer to that question, then yes, I'd strongly like it if everyone would keep posts in the comfy 6-11 range. However, given the activity level of past games, I worry if this is at all tenable.


Abstaining from killing is bad. Mass roleclaims would be AWFUL. Good luck reading anyone if all of the roles are out there. It's also one of our few defenses against skypers. The game would be a pure WIFOM with all roles out there, which is why host didn't implement this. "Was that person killed by mafia because he wasn't part of the skypers, or because of random chance?" etc. etc.
I'm sorry I didnt read this post before my last post. This guy gets it.

[Stealthbomber16]

Hold on here guys, heres an issue.

IF there are Skypers in the game and we start voting up skypers we have an issue of the lynch train not making it far. Therefore if we have skypers in the game, we have probably only 1-3 chance of finding a rule breaker that isnt a skyper that would be easier to lynch.

Also, look at the random lynching problems. COM Hunters would like random lynches on their respective target on the basis of there being a chance it is a Rule Breaker. We can't rely on this either.

Furthermore, primary win conditions > secondary win conditions, so we cant trust anyone. If we rely on a single town/mafia/neutral role we may very well be backstabbed.

I think that what we need is for two investigative roles to check the same target. We should coordinate this in the day. The only catches are if they are skypers, a lurker is on the mafia/neutral and silences them both, or if one of them is a Consig. If two investigative roles check the same target, then COM Hunters can't reveal if their target is checked, giving them a good chance to lose. I think this is the most effective way to allow us to win our secondary win conditions, and all of us alleged rule followers to complete our primary win condition as Town.

[Stealthbomber16]

Use tags to vote who investigation roles should target using Blue.

Investigate Dagaen

[BananaCucho]

Hold on here guys, heres an issue.

IF there are Skypers in the game and we start voting up skypers we have an issue of the lynch train not making it far. Therefore if we have skypers in the game, we have probably only 1-3 chance of finding a rule breaker that isnt a skyper that would be easier to lynch.

If there are 3 skypers and they don't jump onto a lynch train that makes them suspcious of skyping and host can host-kill them. Don't forget that host does have that power. The more interaction, voting, and actions the better, it helps host understand who is who.


Also, look at the random lynching problems. COM Hunters would like random lynches on their respective target on the basis of there being a chance it is a Rule Breaker. We can't rely on this either.

50 50, com hunter can choose to try to get his target to survive instead.


Furthermore, primary win conditions > secondary win conditions, so we cant trust anyone. If we rely on a single town/mafia/neutral role we may very well be backstabbed.

I think that what we need is for two investigative roles to check the same target. We should coordinate this in the day. The only catches are if they are skypers, a lurker is on the mafia/neutral and silences them both, or if one of them is a Consig. If two investigative roles check the same target, then COM Hunters can't reveal if their target is checked, giving them a good chance to lose. I think this is the most effective way to allow us to win our secondary win conditions, and all of us alleged rule followers to complete our primary win condition as Town.
Once again there are NO secondary win conditions - just end conditions. If only one faction remains game ends - but only primary win conditions determine the winner! Please understand this!

[MattZed]

Hold on here guys, heres an issue.

IF there are Skypers in the game and we start voting up skypers we have an issue of the lynch train not making it far. Therefore if we have skypers in the game, we have probably only 1-3 chance of finding a rule breaker that isnt a skyper that would be easier to lynch.

Also, look at the random lynching problems. COM Hunters would like random lynches on their respective target on the basis of there being a chance it is a Rule Breaker. We can't rely on this either.

Furthermore, primary win conditions > secondary win conditions, so we cant trust anyone. If we rely on a single town/mafia/neutral role we may very well be backstabbed.

I think that what we need is for two investigative roles to check the same target. We should coordinate this in the day. The only catches are if they are skypers, a lurker is on the mafia/neutral and silences them both, or if one of them is a Consig. If two investigative roles check the same target, then COM Hunters can't reveal if their target is checked, giving them a good chance to lose. I think this is the most effective way to allow us to win our secondary win conditions, and all of us alleged rule followers to complete our primary win condition as Town.

We want to kill the rulebreakers SOMEHOW. There are, of course, three ways: Modkill, lynch, or night action kill. Modkills are the best kind of kill on rulebreakers, but we simply can't risk those yet. Lynches and night kills have the disadvantage that rule breakers might influence them.

So, between lynches and night kills, which action should we prefer? Night kills are preferable on the target of the Com hunter, but otherwise a kill is a kill, and both can be manipulated. If a rule breaker controls the neutral killing or has a significant presence in the mafia, there's not much any of the other rule followers can do about it. (which is why scumhunting in Mafia night chat is essential.) All that in mind, I don't see too much reason to say we should only lynch or night kill over the other, although I might slightly prefer night kills for the com hunter reason.

There is this particular issue of lynching skypers. We know there must be 0-5 of them. 5 seems a little too unfair, 4 probably unfair too, and 1 doesn't make sense. This would mean there are probably 0, 2 or 3 skypers. The other rule breakers don't know who the skypers are, and may well want them dead. (in the case of gamethrower, for instance) Yes, getting a train may be harder with Skypers, but when else are we going to do it? It's easier to get a train when they make up 17% or 25% of the players than it is when they make up 33%. So yes, it may be hard to lynch skypers, but they are weakest now and may actually not exist. This is why I've advanced the random lynch. (and it's also material we can use to find who doesn't wan whom to be lynched)

Now, if you would all politely get on the train I've set on Hypersniper, please. I'm open to suggestions, if and we're not getting one going soon, I'm going to jump on someone else who already has a vote.

[Firebringer]

Lynch BananaCucho.

You can lynch me after if Rule Follower.

Never trust a troll.

[Stealthbomber16]

I still suggest that we use my investigation ideas so that when we reach day 4, we can utilize them. (and because I have a big ego and want my ideas to be put to use lol)

[BananaCucho]

I would like everybody to give an analysis of RLVG please.

[Fatalis]

I would like everybody to give an analysis of RLVG please.

i dont want to

[Stealthbomber16]

I would like everybody to give an analysis of RLVG please.

I'll gladly give an analysis of you based off of this one post:

I think you are a COM Hunter now.

You want our opinion on if you should have him lynched or survive until the end.
Either way, we can stop that from happening by doing this,
BananaCucho

[MattZed]

I would like everybody to give an analysis of RLVG please.
He's following the "first day = troll day" meta and not contributing at all. However, he was posting well below the threshold to lurk and was my second choice to "random" lynch. Overall, I don't have a read one way or the other.


I'll gladly give an analysis of you based off of this one post:

I think you are a COM Hunter now.

You want our opinion on if you should have him lynched or survive until the end.
Either way, we can stop that from happening by doing this,
BananaCucho
While I suspect you already know this, I will say for the record that com hunters do not have their targets yet.

From experience, I don't normally trust Firebringer's random lynch skills and I don't want to lynch a person posting too much to use lurker night action and who agrees with my ideas. However, this is a compelling start of a train, even if it does feel like another one Firebringer's odd trains.

[Stealthbomber16]

While I suspect you already know this, I will say for the record that com hunters do not have their targets yet.
...
I really need to read.

I'm looking forward to playing with you this game, MattZed! And hopefully many more games to come.

[BananaCucho]

I'll gladly give an analysis of you based off of this one post:

I think you are a COM Hunter now.

You want our opinion on if you should have him lynched or survive until the end.
Either way, we can stop that from happening by doing this,
BananaCucho
Com hunters dont get their target until night 1. Please read the setup.

[Stealthbomber16]

Alright! After freshly going back and re-reading the setup, I think that my point still stands. You want to know if you think it would be better to have people lynched or survive until the end. Its not very hard to figure all of this out based on their posting style for this game and the last few games.

[BananaCucho]

We want to kill the rulebreakers SOMEHOW. There are, of course, three ways: Modkill, lynch, or night action kill. Modkills are the best kind of kill on rulebreakers, but we simply can't risk those yet. Lynches and night kills have the disadvantage that rule breakers might influence them.

So, between lynches and night kills, which action should we prefer? Night kills are preferable on the target of the Com hunter, but otherwise a kill is a kill, and both can be manipulated. If a rule breaker controls the neutral killing or has a significant presence in the mafia, there's not much any of the other rule followers can do about it. (which is why scumhunting in Mafia night chat is essential.) All that in mind, I don't see too much reason to say we should only lynch or night kill over the other, although I might slightly prefer night kills for the com hunter reason.

There is this particular issue of lynching skypers. We know there must be 0-5 of them. 5 seems a little too unfair, 4 probably unfair too, and 1 doesn't make sense. This would mean there are probably 0, 2 or 3 skypers. The other rule breakers don't know who the skypers are, and may well want them dead. (in the case of gamethrower, for instance) Yes, getting a train may be harder with Skypers, but when else are we going to do it? It's easier to get a train when they make up 17% or 25% of the players than it is when they make up 33%. So yes, it may be hard to lynch skypers, but they are weakest now and may actually not exist. This is why I've advanced the random lynch. (and it's also material we can use to find who doesn't wan whom to be lynched)

Now, if you would all politely get on the train I've set on Hypersniper, please. I'm open to suggestions, if and we're not getting one going soon, I'm going to jump on someone else who already has a vote.
You understand what's going on well. I still have my eye on RLVG for his possible slip, not to mention he completely ignored me when I brought it up - but I'll go along with your lynch.

I am 100% okay with random lynching a possible lurker.

Hypersniper

[Stealthbomber16]

1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen

[BananaCucho]

I also want to tack on to that that while hypersniper is not the only one kinda lurking, the lurker can win so fast and so easily by day 3 that unless we pick up on something else this is a safe route to take.

Also, Orpz claimed vig. I think a safe move would be to shoot any possible lurkers night one as well.

[BananaCucho]

1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen
I want you to explain to me this analysis. Why do you figure me and mattzed for scum (me for some reason more, I sense a bit of annoyance that I won't agree with what you say) for trying to explain and get the point across that primary conditions are what we should be going for?

[BananaCucho]

1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen
Why do you give three possible lurkers: fatalis, hypersniper, and ika such a pass?

[Fatalis]

I want you to explain to me this analysis. Why do you figure me and mattzed for scum (me for some reason more, I sense a bit of annoyance that I won't agree with what you say) for trying to explain and get the point across that primary conditions are what we should be going for?

interesting wording right there

[Fatalis]

Why do you give three possible lurkers: fatalis, hypersniper, and ika such a pass?

you wanna fight with me bro? can't you see im spamming posts?

[BananaCucho]

interesting wording right there
Do go on please.

[BananaCucho]

you wanna fight with me bro? can't you see im spamming posts?
You had 5 posts as of that post I made, which is on the lower end of the list. I want stealth to explain his scum reads because they are not making any sense at all.

I do find your reaction interesting. I hardly consider you spamming.

[Fatalis]

Do go on please.

'figure' to me looks like you are actually scum and just got 'figured out'

but then again I failed english in high school

[Fatalis]

You had 5 posts as of that post I made, which is on the lower end of the list. I want stealth to explain his scum reads because they are not making any sense at all.

I do find your reaction interesting. I hardly consider you spamming.

nope im spamming

[BananaCucho]

'figure' to me looks like you are actually scum and just got 'figured out'

but then again I failed english in high school
There are multiple ways to use the word figure, and saying "why do you figure" is pretty much like saying "why do you think that".

I do like that you are looking for possible slips

[MattZed]

Why do you give three possible lurkers: fatalis, hypersniper, and ika such a pass?
The point about lurkers is being overstated. How many do you think there are? I would figure at most 2, possibly none if there are skypers. Lurkers may "feel" like they're the easiest to catch, but if all we do is chase potential lurkers, we'll miss the other rule breakers who post a lot and get by through virtue of being "not lurkers." Yes, people who post less are more likely to be lurkers, but lurkers aren't my main goal, since they can't even win until the end of night 4.

If at the end of the day there are no lurkers, we are going to feel stupid if we spent all our time only looking for them.

Also, a bit of statistics:
Assume there are 2 lurkers, and that lurkers will always try to get their night action on. BananaCucho, I think you're the only person thus far to clear half of Stealthbomber16's posts. If we tried to lynch lurkers by posting, we'd have a 1/5 chance of being right. However, there are 5/12 scum. Lurker hunting at this point won't be more useful than pure randoming or trying to find scum in general.


1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen
This is just completely premature. While I also have hunches and there is something off of which to maybe get a read, we have to concede that anything at this point is going to amount to a "random" lynch. For future reference, you should also attune your scum-dar to the fact that the majority (possibly all) of the scum don't know who each other are. The list I see here seems to be breaking into a set of who tends to agree with each other, which I'm not sure is a valid tell. (BananaCucho, as far as I know, is trying to agree with me because he thinks I can lead a lynch that favors him)

Get on the hypersniper train, my friend?

[Fatalis]

There are multiple ways to use the word figure, and saying "why do you figure" is pretty much like saying "why do you think that".

I do like that you are looking for possible slips

while ur here tell me why so many agrees with a random lynch

7 v 5 = still higher chance of followers getting killed

[Stealthbomber16]

1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen

Who said I actually followed this list?

I admit I completely randomized this list to get reactions. I think I have some good hunches now.

[Fatalis]

The point about lurkers is being overstated. How many do you think there are? I would figure at most 2, possibly none if there are skypers. Lurkers may "feel" like they're the easiest to catch, but if all we do is chase potential lurkers, we'll miss the other rule breakers who post a lot and get by through virtue of being "not lurkers." Yes, people who post less are more likely to be lurkers, but lurkers aren't my main goal, since they can't even win until the end of night 4.

If at the end of the day there are no lurkers, we are going to feel stupid if we spent all our time only looking for them.

Also, a bit of statistics:
Assume there are 2 lurkers, and that lurkers will always try to get their night action on. BananaCucho, I think you're the only person thus far to clear half of Stealthbomber16's posts. If we tried to lynch lurkers by posting, we'd have a 1/5 chance of being right. However, there are 5/12 scum. Lurker hunting at this point won't be more useful than pure randoming or trying to find scum in general.


This is just completely premature. While I also have hunches and there is something off of which to maybe get a read, we have to concede that anything at this point is going to amount to a "random" lynch. For future reference, you should also attune your scum-dar to the fact that the majority (possibly all) of the scum don't know who each other are. The list I see here seems to be breaking into a set of who tends to agree with each other, which I'm not sure is a valid tell. (BananaCucho, as far as I know, is trying to agree with me because he thinks I can lead a lynch that favors him)

Get on the hypersniper train, my friend?
yes

[BananaCucho]

The point about lurkers is being overstated. How many do you think there are? I would figure at most 2, possibly none if there are skypers. Lurkers may "feel" like they're the easiest to catch, but if all we do is chase potential lurkers, we'll miss the other rule breakers who post a lot and get by through virtue of being "not lurkers." Yes, people who post less are more likely to be lurkers, but lurkers aren't my main goal, since they can't even win until the end of night 4.

If at the end of the day there are no lurkers, we are going to feel stupid if we spent all our time only looking for them.

Also, a bit of statistics:
Assume there are 2 lurkers, and that lurkers will always try to get their night action on. BananaCucho, I think you're the only person thus far to clear half of Stealthbomber16's posts. If we tried to lynch lurkers by posting, we'd have a 1/5 chance of being right. However, there are 5/12 scum. Lurker hunting at this point won't be more useful than pure randoming or trying to find scum in general.


This is just completely premature. While I also have hunches and there is something off of which to maybe get a read, we have to concede that anything at this point is going to amount to a "random" lynch. For future reference, you should also attune your scum-dar to the fact that the majority (possibly all) of the scum don't know who each other are. The list I see here seems to be breaking into a set of who tends to agree with each other, which I'm not sure is a valid tell. (BananaCucho, as far as I know, is trying to agree with me because he thinks I can lead a lynch that favors him)

Get on the hypersniper train, my friend?
You're completely right. There are lots of different rule breakers possible and I was just stating one in particular that we could try to counter early. Obviously its day 1, and as more days go by it'll become more apparent who everyone is.

[Fatalis]

Who said I actually followed this list?

I admit I completely randomized this list to get reactions. I think I have some good hunches now.

hold on guys i smell something

its the scent of lies

[Stealthbomber16]

WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THERE ARE LURKERS

[Fatalis]

i dont think it matters what type of rule breaker there are, just make sure lurkers cant get ez win and hunt them all as usual

[BananaCucho]

while ur here tell me why so many agrees with a random lynch

7 v 5 = still higher chance of followers getting killed
If a rule follower gets lynched:

- Host gets a better idea of who is who by who voted and who didn't and so do we

If a rule breaker gets lynched:

- There's only 4 rule breakers to worry about still, but that's a huge swing day 1

I think a good point for everyone to get as well is:

Even if every single rule follower dies, as long as no more than two rule followers win, all of the rule followers win. Rule followers don't need to survive as long as we stop the rule breakers from winning. Please refer to my previous post about how killing most rule breakers (or com hunters target depending on the situation) stops them from winning.

[BananaCucho]

As long as no more than two rule breakers win*

Sorry about that.

[Lolunic0rn]

Here is, from my observations, I have found Suspicious? and Trustable and Normal
1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen


So far im really not sure about much, but heres what I have. Definitely not for sure, if you disagree I would be glad to hear insight. Don't judge

[Stealthbomber16]

Here is, from my observations, I have found Suspicious? and Trustable and Normal
1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen


So far im really not sure about much, but heres what I have. Definitely not for sure, if you disagree I would be glad to hear insight. Don't judge

This is sophisticated for someones second post in a game. Care to go into more detail?

[BananaCucho]

This is sophisticated for someones second post in a game. Care to go into more detail?
Wheres your real list I know you love to make them.

[Fatalis]

Here is, from my observations, I have found Suspicious? and Trustable and Normal
1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen


So far im really not sure about much, but heres what I have. Definitely not for sure, if you disagree I would be glad to hear insight. Don't judge

ill kill you

[MattZed]

while ur here tell me why so many agrees with a random lynch

7 v 5 = still higher chance of followers getting killed
It's fallacious to think that we should random lynch if and only if we have a better-than-a-coinflip chance of getting scum. That's not what's going on here. A rigorous cost-benefit analysis takes into account a few points points:
1. How much lynching a scum helps vs. how much lynching a rule follower hurts. (I'd argue losing a rule follower is decently affordable, while lynching scum is amazing)
2. The opportunity cost of not lynching at all (we could let jailor/kidnapper work, we'd have more votes later when we might know more, better chance of passing day 4, etc) I concede that looking at this doesn't favor a random lynch. My argument is that how simply good it would be to lynch scum, coupled with it actually being quite feasible, makes it worth it.
3. The actual probability of success. Most of us suspect a skyper would be harder to lynch than anyone else.
4. The reads of having (or at least attempting) a random lynch, vs not even trying. This is also benefits trying a random lynch, although it's still a secondary effect compared to the first point.

[Fatalis]

If a rule follower gets lynched:

- Host gets a better idea of who is who by who voted and who didn't and so do we

If a rule breaker gets lynched:

- There's only 4 rule breakers to worry about still, but that's a huge swing day 1

I think a good point for everyone to get as well is:

Even if every single rule follower dies, as long as no more than two rule followers win, all of the rule followers win. Rule followers don't need to survive as long as we stop the rule breakers from winning. Please refer to my previous post about how killing most rule breakers (or com hunters target depending on the situation) stops them from winning.

there is a higher chance of rule follower getting lynched

and that weakens the control followers have on day lynches

unless we can count on the host to get a rule breaker tonight, its not worth it

[Stealthbomber16]

Wheres your real list I know you love to make them.

I'm waiting for a bit.

[Fatalis]

It's fallacious to think that we should random lynch if and only if we have a better-than-a-coinflip chance of getting scum. That's not what's going on here. A rigorous cost-benefit analysis takes into account a few points points:
1. How much lynching a scum helps vs. how much lynching a rule follower hurts. (I'd argue losing a rule follower is decently affordable, while lynching scum is amazing)
2. The opportunity cost of not lynching at all (we could let jailor/kidnapper work, we'd have more votes later when we might know more, better chance of passing day 4, etc) I concede that looking at this doesn't favor a random lynch. My argument is that how simply good it would be to lynch scum, coupled with it actually being quite feasible, makes it worth it.
3. The actual probability of success. Most of us suspect a skyper would be harder to lynch than anyone else.
4. The reads of having (or at least attempting) a random lynch, vs not even trying. This is also benefits trying a random lynch, although it's still a secondary effect compared to the first point.

ok i see a good point here

if we all agree of random lynching i say Lolunic0rn

yay/nay?

[deathworlds]

Please do not directly PM PoD your question, PM your questions for him to me.

[BananaCucho]

there is a higher chance of rule follower getting lynched

and that weakens the control followers have on day lynches

unless we can count on the host to get a rule breaker tonight, its not worth it
Let me spell something out for you:

Only skypers are aligned. All other rule breakers are pretty much a nuetral role working alone. They are not coordinated. They are not working together. They are not sharing a night chat and I'm sure will kill or lynch each other to win their own condition.

There are most likely a max of 2-3 skypers.

Make more sense now?

[BananaCucho]

ok i see a good point here

if we all agree of random lynching i say Lolunic0rn

yay/nay?
I can get behind that.

[SuperJack]

I can get behind that.

Gay

[MattZed]

ok i see a good point here

if we all agree of random lynching i say Lolunic0rn

yay/nay?
For now, I'm sticking with the Hypersniper train I started, but I'll consider your suggestion more later if I get desperate. I certainly don't think he's a bad choice for a random lynch.

[Stealthbomber16]

I think somebody named Lol Unicorn is a girl.

With her 2 posts she's actually contributed more than Hypersniper has. She posted reads, even if they weren't explained.
Hypersniper

[Orpz]

I can get behind this. Saves me a bullet.

Hypersniper

[Fatalis]

Hypersniper

[Stealthbomber16]

I'm off for now. Leaving my vote on hypersniper.

[Dagaen]

I'm off for now. Leaving my vote on hypersniper.

Skimming before work.

Stealthbomber16

Before this guy spams and spams, despite telling him to control his posts number. If there is one Skyper we are already halfway done. This can be huge blow for us and it's not very unlikely. And Bomber doesn't even try to makes his posts bigger, but less frequent.

Host, with your Power of Death (tee-hee) you should probably wait until there will be 5v5 or until scum will have advantage. Unless, you're sure something weird is going on.

Skypers will be tricky to find, but there are still some ways. Any weird coincidences (like Doc healing unlikely target when Mafs are trying to kill him) may suggest Skypers. Weird voting patterns. Typical non-RuleFollower behavior. Etc.

Gamethrower will be probably impossible to find by analysing night actions. This one will be very tricky.

Com hunter - depends on what he choose.

[Dagaen]

Oops.


Skimming before work.

Stealthbomber16

Before this guy spams and spams, despite telling him to control his posts number. If there is one Lurker we are already halfway done. This can be huge blow for us and it's not very unlikely. And Bomber doesn't even try to makes his posts bigger, but less frequent.

[Dagaen]

And I'm going to think during my way to work about how we should end the game. We can't go for a mass Town win becase we risk Gamethrower in our ranks. And I'm pretty sure that Lurker gets his win before that. Otherwise not-killing and letting Town win would be semi-safe strategy.

Perhaps we should do a 1v1v1 ending. Killing most of us will have great chance of hitting skypers and other scum (and it would be very unlikely to have 2 skypers among 3 people). If we hit Gamethrower in the process we can decide which side should win then. And having only one person per faction will make very likely that Rule Follower will win. Something to think about.

So I still want to find Neutral, but we need him to stay alive till the end.

[BananaCucho]

And I'm going to think during my way to work about how we should end the game. We can't go for a mass Town win becase we risk Gamethrower in our ranks. And I'm pretty sure that Lurker gets his win before that. Otherwise not-killing and letting Town win would be semi-safe strategy.

Perhaps we should do a 1v1v1 ending. Killing most of us will have great chance of hitting skypers and other scum (and it would be very unlikely to have 2 skypers among 3 people). If we hit Gamethrower in the process we can decide which side should win then. And having only one person per faction will make very likely that Rule Follower will win. Something to think about.

So I still want to find Neutral, but we need him to stay alive till the end.
So I think once we hit day 4 we can try to end it ASAP then. If we go too long til 1v1v1 or so like you say we do run a risk of skypers getting control if we haven't got them by then.

[MattZed]

Skimming before work.

Stealthbomber16

Before this guy spams and spams, despite telling him to control his posts number. If there is one Skyper we are already halfway done. This can be huge blow for us and it's not very unlikely. And Bomber doesn't even try to makes his posts bigger, but less frequent.

Host, with your Power of Death (tee-hee) you should probably wait until there will be 5v5 or until scum will have advantage. Unless, you're sure something weird is going on.

Skypers will be tricky to find, but there are still some ways. Any weird coincidences (like Doc healing unlikely target when Mafs are trying to kill him) may suggest Skypers. Weird voting patterns. Typical non-RuleFollower behavior. Etc.

Gamethrower will be probably impossible to find by analysing night actions. This one will be very tricky.

Com hunter - depends on what he choose.

The random lynch train is on Hypersniper. I'd rather hear why you think we should or shouldn't have the train.

Do you actually want to random someone who consistently posts? It's not very hard to just ask him to clump posts together more. It also seems, from day 1, that focusing this hard on making life hard for Lurkers just isn't possible, or in our interests.

The rest of your post was a generic non-post telling the host how to find scum. I'm pretty sure our host figured out their strategy already, and it only looks scummy on your part to provide useless advice as if our host needed it.


And I'm going to think during my way to work about how we should end the game. We can't go for a mass Town win becase we risk Gamethrower in our ranks. And I'm pretty sure that Lurker gets his win before that. Otherwise not-killing and letting Town win would be semi-safe strategy.

Perhaps we should do a 1v1v1 ending. Killing most of us will have great chance of hitting skypers and other scum (and it would be very unlikely to have 2 skypers among 3 people). If we hit Gamethrower in the process we can decide which side should win then. And having only one person per faction will make very likely that Rule Follower will win. Something to think about.

So I still want to find Neutral, but we need him to stay alive till the end.

Again, I'm just going to say no. Please read my others posts in this thread before getting back to me on this one. I disagree strongly about the meta you've conceived of for this game. We should not be orchestrating an ending and hoping we catch scum in the process at this point.

Trying to out the neutral further seems incredibly misguided. We're not going to win this game by deciding all night actions by committee and having the host modkill anyone who goes against the committee. I feel this is actually so obvious that I shouldn't have to explain it, but since you've brought it up again, allow me to:
1. If we start revealing secondary roles, we lose valuable scumtells and scumhunting. The Mafia chat should be dedicated nominally toward helping mafia win, but also toward killing scum. Rule following mafia are basically vigs, and they need to be allowed to play as such. Similarly for rule-following neutral killings.
2. The chaos, oh dear god the chaos. If we spend all of our time trying to rig the game, we're just going to make everyone frustrated and take time away from actually looking for scum.
3. Scum can influence the rigging too.
4. Focusing on these things doesn't actually help us win the game.

All-in-all, what you've been doing seems fairly anti-rule follower by containing distractions that don't actually help us win. Dagaen, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you haven't had much time to put into this game, but if you don't have a much more substantive post the next time you sit down and think one through, you're first on my list of probable scum.

[Hypersniper]

Ahhh im being voted for not being on

i do have work and school my life does not revolve around this,plus im in england and timings are different i need to get off to work in 10 mins i will post reads when i get back

[Orpz]

No you're being voted because you are a Mafia.

[BananaCucho]

Ahhh im being voted for not being on

i do have work and school my life does not revolve around this,plus im in england and timings are different i need to get off to work in 10 mins i will post reads when i get back
Then you will not mind us lynching you :)

[Orpz]

Then you will not mind us lynching you :)

why do you want to lynch Hypersniper?

[BananaCucho]

why do you want to lynch Hypersniper?
If he gives me a compelling enough reason I'll unvote or switch. Otherwise I've already given my reasons for wanting a day 1 lynch. Doesn't have to be him in particular that's just the flavor of the moment.

[Orpz]

Orpz playbook:

Lynch: Hypersniper

If:
Town: -shoot BananaCucho
Mafia: -shoot Firebringer

[BananaCucho]

Orpz playbook:

Lynch: Hypersniper

If:
Town: -shoot BananaCucho
Mafia: -shoot Firebringer
I like it.

[MattZed]

If he gives me a compelling enough reason I'll unvote or switch. Otherwise I've already given my reasons for wanting a day 1 lynch. Doesn't have to be him in particular that's just the flavor of the moment.

The main ingredient in a random lynch is conviction. I know that I am not scum, (roll with me on this one) and since I started the train, I know that I'm not purposefully avoiding a scummate or being tricked to target non-scum. If you're going to trust someone to follow for a random lynch, why not MattZed? I think I've made a decent case for being a Rule Follower. To paraphrase someone, "follow me to victory, rule-followers!"

If anyone else agrees with my hunch on Dagaen's scumminess, (or he continues giving me this hunch) I might be persuaded to switch trains to Dragaen. That said, we're running out of time to lynch someone, (~12 hours, and no promises everyone will be on again in that timeframe) and there is something sacred about the "first" person selected for the train. Someone who might not be able to devote much time to the game might not be the best candidate to keep around, anyways.

I await responses. Especially from you, Dagaen.

[BananaCucho]

You know I completely missed that days are only 24 hours. Too used to playing 48 hour games I guess.

Its night and most people are sleeping and probably won't posy too much in the morning. It's pretty much hyper or no lynch at this point.

[MattZed]

You know I completely missed that days are only 24 hours. Too used to playing 48 hour games I guess.

Its night and most people are sleeping and probably won't posy too much in the morning. It's pretty much hyper or no lynch at this point.
This day is actually 27 hours long. Given that Ika, Firebringer, and RLVG all posted in the first three hours of the game, I'd expect to hear from them again. They all haven't yet responded to the Hypersniper question. SuperJack and Lolunic0rn may also respond in that time. Hope is not lost, yet.

[BananaCucho]

This day is actually 27 hours long. Given that Ika, Firebringer, and RLVG all posted in the first three hours of the game, I'd expect to hear from them again. They all haven't yet responded to the Hypersniper question. SuperJack and Lolunic0rn may also respond in that time. Hope is not lost, yet.
No I'm pretty sure hypersniper will be lynched but its kinda too late to convince seven votes on someone else so its him or no one if we end up changing our minds

[Firebringer]

Yeah I am not following a random lynch train on anyone but the one I am leading it on.


Busy doing reports, be back in a hour or so.

[SuperJack]

Reading the aruements posed, I'm going to vote.
Even though there are a couple of things that I liked what firebringer said.

If I wasn't on my way to work, I would post more detail.

Hypersniper

[Firebringer]

Hypersniper better role claim or he is getting lynched.

[SuperJack]

Ahhh im being voted for not being on

i do have work and school my life does not revolve around this,plus im in england and timings are different i need to get off to work in 10 mins i will post reads when i get back

Didn't give a time when he is coming back. Just that he is off to work.

[Firebringer]

Didn't give a time when he is coming back. Just that he is off to work.

I can wait. We still have close to 12 hours before day ends.

[MattZed]

I can wait. We still have close to 12 hours before day ends.
Hammering with 12 hours to go would be a little premature, I agree. However, it's not his response I'm looking for at this point (would have to be some spectacular role call to save him) as much as I'm looking for everyone else's thoughts on the game so far. (especially Dagaen, as I've said before) We need as much information as possible before our killing roles decide their night kills.



I will be back before the day is up, but I don't want the lynch to end day too soon.

[MattZed]

I am off to bed but will be back at 11:00 AM PDT (2 hours before day ends) to re-vote.

[RLVG]

Ahhh im being voted for not being on

i do have work and school my life does not revolve around this,plus im in england and timings are different i need to get off to work in 10 mins i will post reads when i get back

I'm not going to vote someone who has a life. If HS avoids posting reads when he's back though, then it's inexcuseable.

[SuperJack]

I had no idea how long we had left. I thought I read we had 24 hour day, but I must of been mistaken.

[Hypersniper]

Right lads im back, ima watch some porn, reread tgen post my reads

[Dagaen]

Ok, Mattzed, now that you wanted me to reread you, I have to say: you seem quite scummy. You repeatedly stated that we shouldn't abstain from killing. Bah, you even encourage people to do night kills, because according to you it's preferrable????


A night kill can kill rule breakers. (unless they are night immune. I would suspect at least one of them is) It's good for us for the same reason as a random lynch.



If we start revealing secondary roles, we lose valuable scumtells and scumhunting. The Mafia chat should be dedicated nominally toward helping mafia win, but also toward killing scum. Rule following mafia are basically vigs, and they need to be allowed to play as such. Similarly for rule-following neutral killings.

ALL RULE FOLLOWERS ARE THE SAME TEAM, exactly! That means that Neutral and Mafias are basically Vigilantes, just as you said. What setup are you playing that you encourage Vigilantes to start shooting randomly?? And how abstaining from NKs is a bad thing? Less night kills = more time for us = more time for discussion = more scumhunting. If we stick to lynching we can analyze voting patterns, language and other behavioral things. But nooo, according to you we should just pop the guns at night and cross our fingers?

And explain the highlighted part. What, you thing that if Sheriff finds mafia and he tells us about it, it makes him Rule Follower? Give me an example of "lost scumtell".


In fact, I would encourage the host to remember that they can strategically lie, just to see how players react to your info.

Yeah, let's prepare to doubt every Host's answer, that will be helpful. Another preparation for future shenanigans on your part.


Mass roleclaims would be AWFUL

Not really that awful, but that was only a suggestion. We should probably not do it for now, to make things harder for Gamethrower.


scumhunting in Mafia night chat is essential.)

I fully agree with that.


So yes, it may be hard to lynch skypers, but they are weakest now and may actually not exist. This is why I've advanced the random lynch. (and it's also material we can use to find who doesn't wan whom to be lynched)



Now, if you would all politely get on the train I've set on Hypersniper, please. I'm open to suggestions, if and we're not getting one going soon, I'm going to jump on someone else who already has a vote.

So you just going to vote anyone or try to scumhunt? Setting up random lynch with no arguments, that's fucking terrible. Random PRESSURE maybe, but it looks like you want blood. And looking at your votes thrown at everybody randomly, it really looks like you don't care who you are going to lynch.


The point about lurkers is being overstated. How many do you think there are? I would figure at most 2, possibly none if there are skypers.

It is not. It takes little effort to effectively disable lurkers, but some of you just don't want to cooperate. Oh yeah, we can have at most 2 lurkers, no big deal? And how many lurkers does it take for us to lose? Exactly 2!


Do you actually want to random someone who consistently posts? It's not very hard to just ask him to clump posts together more. It also seems, from day 1, that focusing this hard on making life hard for Lurkers just isn't possible, or in our interests.

I already did, he already acknowledged it and promised to behave. And just because he consistently posts doesn't mean he is saying anything worthy.


The rest of your post was a generic non-post telling the host how to find scum. I'm pretty sure our host figured out their strategy already, and it only looks scummy on your part to provide useless advice as if our host needed it.

Our Host just graduated, better safe than sorry. He may not be sober enought for setup analysis.


So to sum up - all you want to do is a bloodfest. Random lynching, night kills for everybody. You're speaking of scumhunting, but you pressure Hypersniper without any leads or even FoS. I call bullshit. At night I'm going to reread you way more carefully, for now it has so suffice.

[Dagaen]

Use tags to vote who investigation roles should target using Blue.

Investigate Dagaen

And? What next? What if I'm Town? Mafia? Serial Killer?

[Dagaen]

Right lads im back, ima watch some porn, reread tgen post my reads

Not sure if Gamethrower or Hypersniper:|

[Stealthbomber16]

Day 1 is ending soon, and a word of advice to everyone playing:

Remember to follow Dagaen's plan of the neutral killing host checks.

Remember to only kill those who you really think are Rule Breakers.
If a rule follower dies, you better own up to it. Because if/when we find out, you got some problems.

Neutral Killing, remember in the back of your mind you're not trying to end the game. You're trying to kill Rule Breakers.

Be wary for host modkills. They happen at the end of the day. Anyone, ANYONE, could be modkilled at the days end. Review players posts to see if they have been acting suspicious.

I also suggest that everyone post who they think a rule breaker is at the end of each day.
Honestly, I still think that
BananaCucho is a COM Hunter, followed by the possibility that Hypersniper is a Gamethrower or a Lurker

[RLVG]

Right lads im back, ima watch some porn, reread tgen post my reads

Nnnnope, reads now.

Hypersniper

[Dagaen]

L-1.

Bomber, I've asked you a question few posts ago. You can spam toDay, it's not like somebody is going to beat you 30 posts.

[Stealthbomber16]

And? What next? What if I'm Town? Mafia? Serial Killer?

We coordinate with you for your actions.

I keep thinking in the mind of Secondary Roles. Gah.

[SuperJack]

If he is a game thrower, and is town. If we lynch him does that mean he wins?

[Stealthbomber16]

If he is a game thrower, and is town. If we lynch him does that mean he wins?

No, it just means mafia/neutral have to achieve their end conditions.

[Dagaen]

If he is a game thrower, and is town. If we lynch him does that mean he wins?

He wins if Town loses. So we can lynch him and later let Mafia/Neutral win.

[Stealthbomber16]

I just realized there are so many ways to break this setup using gamethrowers.

[SuperJack]

If he doesnt defend himself well enough, cant he just be mod killed tonight?

[Hypersniper]

Firebringer- i feel that fire is more or less a rule follower, he has a few good analysis posts and his posts are all around towny
Ika- im not sure about ika he hasent posted much and i cant really put a read on him, maybe skyper
RLVG- he seems like a towny player, good posts but always the chance he may be a gamethrower
Stealthbomber-defo a rule follower, good analysis and almost every post is question and analyse
Bananacucho-im not sure on banana, he really is pushing a lynch on me and justifying it as a random lynch
Mattzed-seems like a town even though he started the train on me,good few posts nothing else i can really say
Superjack-not sure on super, short posts no long analysis, so either on rule following citizen or could be a skyper
Powerofdeath-ARE GREAT AND HOLY HOST
Orpz-Seems like a good town, nothing strikes me as scummy
Hypersniper-Blends in with a wall
Lolunic0rn-not sure on this guy, new to mafia but not sure to pin anything on him
Fatalis-i feel he is town or could be a skyper or lurker
Dagaen-seems like a town but has a certain scumminess could be follower or a gamethrower

[Stealthbomber16]

Now, your secondary role.

[SuperJack]

Seems like you avoided the word "Lurker"

[Dagaen]

Those reads are quite terrible. Looks like he made them up between strokes when he was watching porn.

[BananaCucho]

Who am I com hunting stealth? You bring that up again but don't mention who.

I'm not gonnan lie its pretty discouraging that I'm coming off this way to so many posters simply for my interpretation of the setup. I try to help and I just come off as scummy.

[Stealthbomber16]

Who am I com hunting stealth? You bring that up again but don't mention who.


You will receive your target on night 1.

Answered

The reason I see you as a COM Hunter is several little things in your posts.


If com-hunter chooses to lynch his target and his target is killed at night, does com-hunter lose?
Attempting to hide behind an obvious question

I would like everybody to give an analysis of RLVG please.
Wants a basic opinion on one of the players you may be confused about in your reads

Why do you give three possible lurkers: fatalis, hypersniper, and ika such a pass?
Wants to know why my reads clash with yours

Wheres your real list I know you love to make them.
Wants to know where my reads clash with yours

Make a bit more sense now?

[RLVG]

RLVG- he seems like a towny player, good posts but always the chance he may be a gamethrower

Lol, good posts.
I've been lurkish this game.

[BananaCucho]

Wants a basic opinion on one of the players you may be confused about in your reads


I asked people to give me an analysis of RLVG due to a possible scum slip by him, and he completely ignored me after I addressed it and everyone else is ignoring it as well. That's a pretty common FM practice, to ask questions and see how people respond, especially to a possible slip.



Wants to know why my reads clash with yours

Wants to know where my reads clash with yours
So you admit that your "random" list from before wasn't random aka you're lying either because you are spineless or because you're hiding something.

[RLVG]

From my knowledge, the only potential slip I've made is "law abidding citizen", and that's a joke referrence to the theme of the game.

[BananaCucho]

From my knowledge, the only potential slip I've made is "law abidding citizen", and that's a joke referrence to the theme of the game.
Why did it take you so long to respond? I have to thank you though because it definitely has said a lot about some people in particular who are quick to jump all over those posting actively with strategy and give a pass to potential lurkers or potential slips.

[BananaCucho]

But I get it if I'm not being helpful and my ideas aren't taking and I'm just being a distraction, I'm willing to take a step back and follow your lead so we can actually find rule breakers instead of arguing about strategy.

[Hypersniper]

Now, your secondary role.

citizen

[Dagaen]

Hypersniper, what makes you think that Fatalis is Town?

[BananaCucho]

Hypersniper I said I would unvote you if you gave me a compelling reason. Please tell me something:

Why do you read Mattzed as townie and aren't sure about me and mention that I'm pushing a random lynch on you when Matt was the one who picked you as our target in the first place?

[Hypersniper]

Hammering with 12 hours to go would be a little premature, I agree. However, it's not his response I'm looking for at this point (would have to be some spectacular role call to save him) as much as I'm looking for everyone else's thoughts on the game so far. (especially Dagaen, as I've said before) We need as much information as possible before our killing roles decide their night kills.

FOR POSTS LIKE THIS, sorry caps was on
he has said nothing specifically scummy along with some good posts about the game,setups players, ands he dosent want to push a vote on me like you, he chose me most prob randomly you are almost tunneling me to get me lynched but why do u ned a compelling reason to unvote a random vote eh

[Hypersniper]

Hypersniper, what makes you think that Fatalis is Town?

kinda same as matt, but i think he might just be a bored citizen however open to the possibilty of lurker or a skyper due to limited posts

[BananaCucho]

FOR POSTS LIKE THIS, sorry caps was on
he has said nothing specifically scummy along with some good posts about the game,setups players, ands he dosent want to push a vote on me like you, he chose me most prob randomly you are almost tunneling me to get me lynched but why do u ned a compelling reason to unvote a random vote eh
Wow. Have you even read the thread really?

[Hypersniper]

yes

[Hypersniper]

Oh, it appears people have already beaten me to the monologue I scripted in my head before this began. Yeah, let's do some random lynching today if we can. Namely, the outcomes, depending on primary role of person lynched:

Rule Follower: Suboptimal, but possibly worth the risk
Gamethrower: Ideally, these people are actually better modkilled, so that we don't have to worry about "counter-gamethrowing" to force their secondary role to win. Still, it would be better to know who they are.
Skyper: This would be amazing if we could pull it off, and would reveal that there is a Skyper faction. Getting a train would be difficult, however.
Com hunter: They would lose instantly, one scum down, making it a lot harder for us to lose
Lurker: Same as above.

I disagree strongly, however, with Daegan's interpretation of how we should play this game.

Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
Anyway, here's few fun facts:

1) You secondary alingment doesn't really matter. Mafia, Town, Evil Neutral...Everyone can win together as long as we follow rules (I've alredy asked Host if my interpretation is correct, but let's assume it is).
Secondary role doesn't affect win conditions very much, yes. However, we should still semi-actively pursue our secondary win conditions so that the host can sort out the people who are tying to make their win condition lose. (IE: gamethrowers)


Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
2) Killing people at night is useless and risky for rule followers.
This is the point I disagree with most. A night kill can kill rule breakers. (unless they are night immune. I would suspect at least one of them is) It's good for us for the same reason as a random lynch. In fact, it's better, because skypers are less able to influence the kill, (hopefully they don't have the neut killing) and a kill on the com hunter's target is 100% a lose to the com hunter, no questions asked. It also gives a good mafia night chat for the host to start reading out rule breakers. If we can kill a rule breaker, we can start puzzling out who the other rule breakers are.

There of course is the downside that it may make the game end in under 4 days. I've asked deathworlds for clarification on if this feature is still in the game, but if it is, then I honestly wouldn't worry about it until it looks like the game is about to end short.


Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
3) Investigating doesn't really matter as well.
See my discussion on your first point. It's probably best for the game if we, barring some people giving strong rule-breaker tells, follow the facsimile of our secondary roles.

Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
4) We can't win without killing right people. Killing roles should probably abstain from doing anything for now. Yes, even Mafs.
Nope, see my response to the second point.

Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
5) The key to victory is using our omnipotent Host. For example, if we want to find out who Neutral Killer is, then all we have to do it to ask Host the same question: "Is player X a neutral killing?", where X is a name of other player. Everyone will ask the same question, but about different player. Host has no reason to not reveal such info, so one of us will get the positive answer and Tomorrow
we will have a great chance of knowing who that is. If someone lies, he can get modkilled.
Yes, the host is key to victory, especially in using the mod kill. However, your particular answer is a bit fanciful. The host may well not want to answer questions so as to not give certain rulebreakers info that helps them. (Skypers knowing where the roles they need to take out are, for instance.) In fact, I would encourage the host to remember that they can strategically lie, just to see how players react to your info.


Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
6) Mafia should be aware of Skypers. If you are going to kill someone make it random or rotate your decision maker every Night. Also: killing Rule Followers increases the chances of Skypers' winning. Once again: abstaining is goood.
I agree that they should definitely be aware. However, I'd much rather them actively discuss who to kill than to actually give some rule-breaker reads in mafia chat.

Quote Originally Posted by Dagaen View Post
7) Number of posts matters! To effectively disable a Lurker we should try to have equal number of posts. If all players have e.g. 10 posts, Lurker is useless. So guys, you should try to spam a bit more. And Stealthbomber16 - calm down.
I agree that this would be effective, but I don't think deathworlds would find this to be quite legal if we enforced posting rules for us to follow. Host, would this rule be considering circumnavigating the "can't say you're silenced" rule, or otherwise be illegal?

If we get a negative answer to that question, then yes, I'd strongly like it if everyone would keep posts in the comfy 6-11 range. However, given the activity level of past games, I worry if this is at all tenable.

So basically everything goes down to behavioral analysis. I propose to abstain from killing anyone until we get full role list - that would be a start. And it will help us to achieve the 4-days part of our win condition.

Or we can, you know, mass roleclaim right away.

Any thoughts?
Abstaining from killing is bad. Mass roleclaims would be AWFUL. Good luck reading anyone if all of the roles are out there. It's also one of our few defenses against skypers. The game would be a pure WIFOM with all roles out there, which is why host didn't implement this. "Was that person killed by mafia because he wasn't part of the skypers, or because of random chance?" etc. etc.

this reinforces my point

[MattZed]

I will deal with Dagaen in my second post. First, the other things.

Hypersniper

The point of this random lynch was not to get a role. (He claims cit. If there were a role that would justify stopping, it's not that.) The point is that a random lynch favors rule followers.


Answered

The reason I see you as a COM Hunter is several little things in your posts.


Attempting to hide behind an obvious question

Wants a basic opinion on one of the players you may be confused about in your reads

Wants to know why my reads clash with yours

Wants to know where my reads clash with yours

Make a bit more sense now?
I basically agree entirely with this analysis. Finding a com hunter this early is absurd, but I do follow these suspicions, however little they mean at this point.

[Dagaen]

I don't believe gamethrowing Citizen, wouldn't make sense from Host's PoV. Skype buddies would coach him to be better with his defense. He spams too much for Lurker. And he didn't give anything to think he is COM hunter. And let's be honest, Hypersniper is not that great with subtlety necessary to be one of those evil guys. So yeah, no vote from me.

But I'm glad to see Matt and Bomber being such a close friends^^

[Hypersniper]

I will deal with Dagaen in my second post. First, the other things.

Hypersniper

The point of this random lynch was not to get a role. (He claims cit. If there were a role that would justify stopping, it's not that.) The point is that a random lynch favors rule followers.


I basically agree entirely with this analysis. Finding a com hunter this early is absurd, but I do follow these suspicions, however little they mean at this point.

may i ask, why me as the random and not a more lurky target suck as Ika

oh and i will be low on activity this weekend due to work related issues but i will try to be on when i can

[ika]

Hypersniper

[The Godfather]

Hypersniper has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


BananaCucho ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10111') (1 [L-6]): Firebringer ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486514')
Stealthbomber16 ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/15807') (1 [L-6]): Dagaen ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486725')
Hypersniper ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10021') (7 [L-0]): Orpz ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486703'), MattZed ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486851'), BananaCucho ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486659'), Fatalis ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486704'), SuperJack ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486761'), RLVG ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486790'), ika ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=486861')

[deathworlds]

Hypersniper was a gamethrowing citizen

Night ends at 1:00 PM PDT tomorrow

[deathworlds]

Day 2

No one died

Day ends at 1:00 PM PDT tomorrow

With 11 people alive it takes 6

[ika]

what the actualy fuck......

i well.....

im just going to wait a minuite and let veeryone check in but i will say my feedback is quite a dozy

[Firebringer]

Ika

My evil reading just went insane.

[MattZed]

I had a post that barely didnt make hammer. Will post when I have computer access.

[Stealthbomber16]

I actually received some feedback for the first time ever in Forum Mafia...

The feedback is...

The host answered no to my question.

Lolunic0rn is not a neutral/mafia, according to PoD.


Oh yea, and I was bussed.
I ask the other person who was bussed to not reveal you were bussed, so that we can confirm the bus driver at a later time.

[BananaCucho]

That was one of the best things that could have happened. We know that if town loses, hypersniper wins. We won't have to stop that if we stop the other four rule breakers but at least we have some perspective.

I want to say something. I was looking over the thread at stealthbombers posts and I think he's a Skyper. The scum read contradictions and lies, the insistence we don't worry about lurkers, and the buddying with me and then Matt... He looks like he's looking for a majority of votes to go along with.

He's going to tell you I'm a com hunter. I don't care. I won't vote him but I am confident that stealth will not survive to day three.

[RLVG]

I asked "Is Mattzed against my win condition?" which I was replied with Yes.

[Firebringer]

MattZed

I follow RLVG lead. If not MattZed then RLVG tomorrow.

We got this on lockdown now.

[Stealthbomber16]

That was one of the best things that could have happened. We know that if town loses, hypersniper wins. We won't have to stop that if we stop the other four rule breakers but at least we have some perspective.

I want to say something. I was looking over the thread at stealthbombers posts and I think he's a Skyper. The scum read contradictions and lies, the insistence we don't worry about lurkers, and the buddying with me and then Matt... He looks like he's looking for a majority of votes to go along with.

He's going to tell you I'm a com hunter. I don't care. I won't vote him but I am confident that stealth will not survive to day three.

I think you're a COM hun-

...wait...

Holy crap you're psychic.

Can you make a good case against me?

[Stealthbomber16]

I asked "Is Mattzed against my win condition?" which I was replied with Yes.

Weren't we supposed to follow Dagaen's plan? Ah well.

[Orpz]

I thought the host question thing was at night so I sent one during the night and got shut down by Deathworlds

[Stealthbomber16]

I thought the host question thing was at night so I sent one during the night and got shut down by Deathworlds

rekt

[Orpz]

...fortunately my dumbassery found salvation.

RLVG has confirmed to me that PoD is helping Town. I checked MattZed last night and can confirm that he is a member of the Mafia.

MattZed

[BananaCucho]

I think you're a COM hun-

...wait...

Holy crap you're psychic.

Can you make a good case against me?
Yes I will post my analysis in a bit.

[Stealthbomber16]

...fortunately my dumbassery found salvation.

RLVG has confirmed to me that PoD is helping Town. I checked MattZed last night and can confirm that he is a member of the Mafia.

MattZed

Even though this raises suspicion to me, based on win and end conditions and stuff like that, I highly doubt that we have 2 COM Hunters, so I think this is a safe one to follow.
The only reason I'm voting is because we need mafia to lose, because hypersniper was a gamethrower.
MattZed

DO NOT GET HIM PAST L-2

[BananaCucho]

...fortunately my dumbassery found salvation.

RLVG has confirmed to me that PoD is helping Town. I checked MattZed last night and can confirm that he is a member of the Mafia.

MattZed
This concerns me. We need to take down the rule breakers, not Mafia

[Stealthbomber16]

This concerns me. We need to take down the rule breakers, not Mafia

Hypersniper was a gamethrower, so Town has to win now.

[Orpz]

Oh yeah, and COM Hunter is very likely to have selected "See your target lynched" as his win condition. So likely that I would stake my reputation on it

[MattZed]

Stealth, you're starting off with a very high post rate. Please condense them.

Also, I know that if RLVG did indeed need to ask that question, it was unnecessary. I claim to be a member of the town.

My current suspicion/person I would start a train on is Ika.

More to follow when I have full computer access.

[BananaCucho]

Hypersniper was a gamethrower, so Town has to win now.
Remember, game has to go to day 4 AND 2 rule breakers are allowed to win just 3 can't. We have plenty of gameplay left and Matt can get taken out by neutral killing or lynched later.

The already quickly growing train on Matt this early into day 2 is troubling. We have four other rule breakers to find and that's the priority.

[Orpz]

Wrong. Ika is certainly innocent.

[Dagaen]

Well, I'm glad we all decided to abstain from killing.

Stealthbomber16

I like how Cucho is thinking. I also don't like how chaotic Bomber is.

[MattZed]

The post I promised that didn't make hammer:


I don't believe gamethrowing Citizen, wouldn't make sense from Host's PoV. Skype buddies would coach him to be better with his defense. He spams too much for Lurker. And he didn't give anything to think he is COM hunter. And let's be honest, Hypersniper is not that great with subtlety necessary to be one of those evil guys. So yeah, no vote from me.

But I'm glad to see Matt and Bomber being such a close friends^^

At no point in time were his posts enough to not use the lurker ability if he had one. I have no idea what you mean by "spams too much for a lurker." The point of this random lynch is to happen. The target was selected, and I haven't seen a super-compelling reason to abort.


Ok, Mattzed, now that you wanted me to reread you, I have to say: you seem quite scummy. You repeatedly stated that we shouldn't abstain from killing. Bah, you even encourage people to do night kills, because according to you it's preferrable????
I've given my reasons for wanting killing roles to act tonight already. Do you actually disagree on any particular point?


ALL RULE FOLLOWERS ARE THE SAME TEAM, exactly! That means that Neutral and Mafias are basically Vigilantes, just as you said. What setup are you playing that you encourage Vigilantes to start shooting randomly?? And how abstaining from NKs is a bad thing? Less night kills = more time for us = more time for discussion = more scumhunting. If we stick to lynching we can analyze voting patterns, language and other behavioral things. But nooo, according to you we should just pop the guns at night and cross our fingers?
I can see an argument for a vig, if they exist, not shooting tonight. However, I've already explained why I like night kills, and you haven't responded to a particular point. We have three ways of killing scum: modkill, lynch, night kill. I find lynches and night kills to be essentially equal in terms of their usefulness and risks.


And explain the highlighted part. What, you thing that if Sheriff finds mafia and he tells us about it, it makes him Rule Follower? Give me an example of "lost scumtell".
You misinterpret me. If we reveal roles, it becomes very easy for the town to make specific suggestions of how a particular role should act. (suggesting the sheriff invest X, or the vig shoot Y, for instance) A "lost scumtell" is when someone follows this and we can't sort out the player's intentions from the will of the masses.



Yeah, let's prepare to doubt every Host's answer, that will be helpful. Another preparation for future shenanigans on your part.
I do like that you addressed this point I made. I realized after making it that it probably came across scummier than I intended. My intention was not to make us distrust our almighty host; rather my point was to encourage the host to realize that they can do their own investigations based on how people respond to their information instead of being merely an oracle in regards to the questions. To give a rough figure, I the host should tell the truth at least 95% of the time, and I would be disappointed if they lied more.

But what I'm trying to say here is that you've picked up on that. I characterized your previous posts as generic non-posts, and now here you are making a genuine scumhunt.



Not really that awful, but that was only a suggestion. We should probably not do it for now, to make things harder for Gamethrower.
I also like that you're not pushing this further and see reasons not to.



So you just going to vote anyone or try to scumhunt? Setting up random lynch with no arguments, that's fucking terrible. Random PRESSURE maybe, but it looks like you want blood. And looking at your votes thrown at everybody randomly, it really looks like you don't care who you are going to lynch.
Yes, I want this lynch to lead to a kill. If we get a lurker or a COM hunter, they have lost instantly. Skypers would be majorly set back. My vote on Hypersniper was what I felt my best hunch at the time. My arguments in favor of lynching Hypersniper now are that he spent his first four posts basically saying nothing, has been generally lurky, and claims a non-power role. It's not enough to say he's definitive scum, but that's not the point. The point is that a random lynch favors rule followers. He seems like as good a target as any.



It is not. It takes little effort to effectively disable lurkers, but some of you just don't want to cooperate. Oh yeah, we can have at most 2 lurkers, no big deal? And how many lurkers does it take for us to lose? Exactly 2!
Check the setup again. THREE rulebreakers need to accomplish their win condition for us to lose. If there were 2 lurkers and 3 skypers, we can win by merely defeating the Skypers. I think you underestimate how much strict posting limits would hamper our discussion. That said, I encourage mindfulness in post counts. (looking at you especially, Stealthbomber16)


So to sum up - all you want to do is a bloodfest. Random lynching, night kills for everybody. You're speaking of scumhunting, but you pressure Hypersniper without any leads or even FoS. I call bullshit. At night I'm going to reread you way more carefully, for now it has so suffice.It's day 1. We have to begin the scumhunt from something. Having him get lynched in day is very useful information. AGAIN, the point of this random lynch is not the scumhunt. It's to be an actual random lynch.

[Orpz]

Hypersniper (7 [L-0]): Orpz, MattZed, BananaCucho, Fatalis, SuperJack, RLVG, ika

Everyone who voted Hypersniper should be under scrutiny, myself included.
Mafia knew Hypersniper was either Town/NK and would be a favorable lynch; they did not know he was a gamethrower.



Remember, game has to go to day 4 AND 2 rule breakers are allowed to win just 3 can't. We have plenty of gameplay left and Matt can get taken out by neutral killing or lynched later.

The already quickly growing train on Matt this early into day 2 is troubling. We have four other rule breakers to find and that's the priority.

BananaCucho is MattZed's rule-following Mafia buddy.

MattZed is probably like a lurker or something. Stealthbomber had 41 posts on day 1 while MattZed had 20, so he's posting just as much as he can while still being able to use his ability, and he was very sensitive to post counts coming into this morning.

[Orpz]

Oh and if that wasn't convincing enough...


...fortunately my dumbassery found salvation.

RLVG has confirmed to me that PoD is helping Town. I checked MattZed last night and can confirm that he is a member of the Mafia.

MattZed

Cut and dry case. He's a Mafia, and a rulebreaker.

[Orpz]

Hypersniper (7 [L-0]): Orpz, MattZed, BananaCucho, Fatalis, SuperJack, RLVG, ika

Everyone who voted Hypersniper should be under scrutiny, myself included.
Mafia knew Hypersniper was either Town/NK and would be a favorable lynch; they did not know he was a gamethrower.




BananaCucho is MattZed's rule-following Mafia buddy.

MattZed is probably like a lurker or something. Stealthbomber had 41 posts on day 1 while MattZed had 20, so he's posting just as much as he can while still being able to use his ability, and he was very sensitive to post counts coming into this morning.

hepatitus derp, I meant Banana with the 41 posts

[MattZed]

Because people didn't seem to go along with me:

MattZed's Treatise on why Night Kills are good:
1. They mess up COM hunter targets.
2. They make mafia chat much more readable for scumtells, especially to the host's perspective.
3. We want the game to go to Day 4, ideally ending Night 4. (Can Rule Followers with if a D4 lynch ends the game?) This makes it hardest for lurkers to win.
4. Lurkers who are killed instantly lose.
5. Lurkers can have the person they silenced die before 2 consecutive silences.
6. It kills skypers just as well as a lynch does.

It seems we want town to win. If all we do is lynch, at best we'll have a town win at the end of D5 and have left any scum in town alive. Granted, if there are 3 skypers, this actually nets us a win. But this approach drastically increases the chances of a COM hunter win, there may be non-town gamethrowers, and it makes it easier for a lurker win than nightkills would.

[BananaCucho]

Oh and if that wasn't convincing enough...



Cut and dry case. He's a Mafia, and a rulebreaker.
Which rule breaker is he, do you figure? POD doesn't know who the rule breakers are he only knows secondary roles

[Orpz]

Which rule breaker is he, do you figure? POD doesn't know who the rule breakers are he only knows secondary roles



BananaCucho is MattZed's rule-following Mafia buddy.

MattZed is probably like a lurker or something. Stealthbomber had 41 posts on day 1 while MattZed had 20, so he's posting just as much as he can while still being able to use his ability, and he was very sensitive to post counts coming into this morning.

Instead of Stealthbomber, I meant to say you, BananaCucho

[BananaCucho]

Let me make this perfectly clear
If you guys dont make enough posts per day I WILL go after you. The only variable would be how I do it. But don't worry, I WILL do it. I want this game to be more active than my first game on here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/31382-S-FM-139-Classic-Mafia) and I want it to be less blatantly stupid. Post stuff that is SMART and post stuff that is HELPFUL.

The other thing I'd like to ask is no giant obnoxious text. But I'm not worried about that because Bruno isn't in this game.
Stealthbomber states he will go after lurkers.


This will be my final post for now to prevent lurkers from lurking.

Once again states he will go after lurkers.


Everyone is showing up. We just need Lolunic0rn, whom I see lurking, and then Fatalis.

POST
Focus still on lurkers. By now stealth has been asked several times to atop spamming because he's only helping lurkers but he ignores that request. That's because:


1. Firebringer
2. Ika
3. RLVG
4. Stealthbomber
5. Bananacucho
6. Mattzed
7. Superjack
8. Powerofdeath
9. Orpz
10. Hypersniper
11. Lolunic0rn
12. Fatalis
13. Dagaen
Look at this list! Some of those posting the least get a green light for non scum. He claims he randomized this list but I don't believe it especially because he says later:


Wants to know why my reads clash with yours

Wants to know where my reads clash with yours

He calls them reads again instead of a list which I think was a small slip in his contradicting story. That wasnt a randomized list. He also states:


WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THERE ARE LURKERS
Why does he say this even though he previously stated he would go after them? He is not concerned about getting lurkers. Skypers only need a majority vote so that is his only goal. He spams and doesn't stop and doesn't persue lurkers like he claimed he would.

Buddying:

*buddies with bananacucho*
Why buddy? Looking for someone to team up with. Less votes on him, more on someone else.


...
I really need to read.

I'm looking forward to playing with you this game, MattZed! And hopefully many more games to come.
Buddy buddy with Matt
Another potential ally.


I think somebody named Lol Unicorn is a girl.

With her 2 posts she's actually contributed more than Hypersniper has. She posted reads, even if they weren't explained.
Hypersniper
One: he goes for brownie points by trying to be perceived by a potential female poster as someone who notices that. Second, lolunicorn is a super lurker and look at that pass he gives him.

[BananaCucho]

Instead of Stealthbomber, I meant to say you, BananaCucho
Yes I know. Which rule breaker do you figure Matt is? It really doesn't matter that he's mafia

[SuperJack]

I thought the host question thing was at night so I sent one during the night and got shut down by Deathworlds

Ha! I did the same thing.

[BananaCucho]

Right now I am wary of Firebringer and Orpz. Why go along so quickly with a vote on a mafia when the idea is to take out rule breakers?

Also I guess I missed that you claimed Matt might be a lurker. That's always a possibility, but given his reasoning for wanting the game to have lynches and night kills I don't see it. Com hunter maybe. Skyper possible but less likely.

And BTW I'm not mafia. I'll probably claim my secondary role today because after that feedback I am in kinda a pickle.

[SuperJack]

Framer is possible dont forget.

[Stealthbomber16]

Stealthbomber states he will go after lurkers.


Once again states he will go after lurkers.


Focus still on lurkers. By now stealth has been asked several times to atop spamming because he's only helping lurkers but he ignores that request. That's because:
I was focusing on making people post. You cant read people if they dont post.

Look at this list! Some of those posting the least get a green light for non scum. He claims he randomized this list but I don't believe it especially because he says later:
It actually was a randomized list. Under no circumstances did I think that Hypersniper and/or Lolunic0rn were Rule Followers, espically when I later state my two most likely rule breaker reads to be you and Hypersniper

He calls them reads again instead of a list which I think was a small slip in his contradicting story. That wasnt a randomized list. He also states:
This was from your perspective.

Why does he say this even though he previously stated he would go after them? He is not concerned about getting lurkers. Skypers only need a majority vote so that is his only goal. He spams and doesn't stop and doesn't persue lurkers like he claimed he would.
I wanted people to post. If they don't even come on the thread, they aren't lurkers. The more I post, the more I get others to post. Although, even I admit I should be posting less, so I will be correcting that today.
Buddying:

Why buddy? Looking for someone to team up with. Less votes on him, more on someone else.
That was a lighthearted joke-ish post.

Buddy buddy with Matt
Another potential ally.
You can see it as buddying as you wish. I can totally see where you're coming from with that point, but even if you wont believe me, I claim that it wasn't meant to be a buddy. That post is genuine, buddy or not.

One: he goes for brownie points by trying to be perceived by a potential female poster as someone who notices that. Second, lolunicorn is a super lurker and look at that pass he gives him.
Because she actually contributed a little bit. As opposed to someone such as Fatalis Superjack or Hypersniper, who haven't contributed.

My responses are in Orange because I like orange.

[BananaCucho]

I still doubt that list was random. Too many coincidences given your early game interactions.

Give your real list now. I asked you this before and you said you would later. Do it.

[Orpz]

Yes I know. Which rule breaker do you figure Matt is? It really doesn't matter that he's mafia

Did you read my post? At all?

Twice now I have said that I thought Matt is a Lurker

[Orpz]

Did you read my post? At all?

Twice now I have said that I thought Matt is a Lurker

Ironically I didnt read your post when you said you missed my post.
Carry on.

[BananaCucho]

Did you read my post? At all?

Twice now I have said that I thought Matt is a Lurker
Yeah I missed that and stated I missed that. I just don't see a lurker taking a "lynch all and kill all" strategy. Thats more of a com hunter or skyper.

[BananaCucho]

Ironically I didnt read your post when you said you missed my post.
Carry on.
lol

[BananaCucho]

BTW everybody needs to make 6+ posts today. If everyone does then nobody was silenced and we don't have to worry about a lurker for now. If someone makes 5 or less we may have to scramble quickly. Lurker only has fl be successful twice to get an easy win.

[Dagaen]

I love Banana for his #235. Also for a guy who wants so much to be done he didn't vote for Hypersniper in the end. Which is weird for me.

I also would like Unicorn to appear and post his thoughts.

MattZed is semi-ok for now. He's my political adversary - we have vastly different ideas, but somehow I believe we mean good. I still don't mind a lynch on him, if that's the case.

Does Mafia has their representative? I think we need someone who could tell us about things that are happening in the night chat.

[Dagaen]

I love Banana for his #235. Also for a guy who wants so much to be done he didn't vote for Hypersniper in the end. Which is weird for me.

I meant Bomber in here.

I still love Banana so much that I want to insert him in my cavity.

[Dagaen]

But hey, why am I the only guy who's voting Bomber?

[Stealthbomber16]

Will post after dinner.