The Dougler

[thedougler]

Account Name: Helz
In-Game Name: BESTMAS
Crimes Committed: Mod Abuse

Your Account Name: TheDougler
Summary: I know there's a report on me currently being processed (and so I can't appeal it yet), but in game Helz gives me the Bank Robber achievement and bans me. Just watch the replay. No crimes committed whatsoever. I know he's just kidding around, but I was looking forward to playing tonight, and now I have to go through this whole bureaucracy before I ever can :( Can we just stop bullying the players please, Helz?

18066 18067

[Helz]

I really am not drunk right now. I couldn't remember the achievement. I did indeed give him bank robber and ban him.

On a side note the Bestmas is unintentional. Apparently although every single other command will only work if its lowercase naming yourself -BESTMAS will trigger that obnoxious screen shake.

-edit

I should not the ban has nothing to do with his bank. I restored him myself at one point.

[Coast]

inno

[Firebringer]

inno

[thedougler]

Inno! D:

[Coast]

my client helz was sober and very rational he is innocent on all accounts

guilty to the dougler and death to tafkal

balthy is next

[Firebringer]

As the prosecution I must say that Helz is clearly being unreasonable in his actions, let us review this replay to confirm my assumptions.

[Coast]

As the prosecution I must say that Helz is clearly being unreasonable in his actions, let us review this replay to confirm my assumptions.

Who even let you in this report?

[Cryptonic]

Don't ban for fun, and don't give bank robber achievement out. It's really a waste of his time to have to clear his bank and get it restored.

I'll also review this tomorrow.

[Helz]

I would just like to say in my defense that I do have an alibi. On the night in question I was speaking with Phantom about a PvZ issue in witch, I was not wearing any pants.

[Brendan]

inno

[Coast]

i just wanted to stop back for my second inno

[Cryptonic]

Just watched the game, guess It's OK.

I mean, you really shouldn't be banning people in game. If one day in the future you decide to allow someone to appeal a ban, than he is still banned regardless.

Other than that, you guys really AFK way too fucking much.

[thedougler]

Just watched the game, guess It's OK.

I mean, you really shouldn't be banning people in game. If one day in the future you decide to allow someone to appeal a ban, than he is still banned regardless.

Other than that, you guys really AFK way too fucking much.

Umm, can you clarify this for me? The ban is okay, or the report? Why was I even banned?

[Cryptonic]

Helz should clarify, I don't want to speak incorrectly about it.
Info that happens in staff Skype chat that I don't have access to is apparently relevant.

[thedougler]

Helz should clarify, I don't want to speak incorrectly about it.
Info that happens in staff Skype chat that I don't have access to is apparently relevant.

If this is a real ban, Helz, then don't even bother explaining yourself. After 4 years of playing this game, the attitude of the moderators has finally gotten to me. I know I engage in some light trolling on occasion (check my sig) and am viewed with disdain by every mod here, but the powertrip some of these guys are on disgusts me, not to mention the complete lack of transparency. One minute I'm having a fun game, then the next lobby I join has 3 mods who proceed to fuck up the game and cause a leavetrain. I couldn't even keep my eyes on the damn screen because I was getting vertigo from the shaking. And to top it all off, he spams me with random achievements at the end of the game and bans me, all with no explanation given.

I am a firm believer that someone who has been accused of a crime has a right to know what they stand accused of. The framers of the U.S. constitution, at least, would agree with me on that one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) So far, I have a very old report on me from 2012, and I was on the watch list for 11 months without complaining about it, as that report was warranted. I have another report on me from 2 months ago that borders on frivolous, whatever, that's fine too. But I have never skyped or contacted anyone in game for the purposes of cheating, and I don't think anyone could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Why would I? It isn't fun. I already have more than 20K points. I don't even care about them anymore. Being able to -prefer roles is the last functional advantage points can get me, and I can already do it. New character models don't excite me in the least.

Mostly, I just try to have fun with this game, hopefully without infringing upon others' enjoyment of the game in the process. Please make whatever report(s) you have on me public so that I can appeal them. This shouldn't be a problem for you if you're not trying to hide anything. I think with necroplant on a hiatus you guys are being too heavy-handed with mostly legit players. If you can't at least let me know why I'm banned, then this game isn't worth my time anymore. I can't say I'll miss most of you.

Edit: for the record, I seriously thought the ban was a joke. Pardon me, but how the fuck are the revelations this guy had in his skype convo, which he shows no indication of ever making us privy to, valid grounds for banning someone? If the cronyism and circlejerking going on here is any indication of how cavalierly mod abuse is taken by the staff, then you may as well get rid of the option to report it altogether. Just admit outright that the staff bans players they don't like and leave it at that. There's no need for false pretenses here.

Helz does not like me, and so he banned me. Simple as that. There's no recourse for me because apparently he can get away with banning someone without evidence, or even going through the proper channels. If this game wasn't already dying, then a few more moderators like Helz will be the final nail in the coffin.

[Brendan]

If this is a real ban, Helz, then don't even bother explaining yourself. After 4 years of playing this game, the attitude of the moderators has finally gotten to me. I know I engage in some light trolling on occasion (check my sig) and am viewed with disdain by every mod here, but the powertrip some of these guys are on disgusts me, not to mention the complete lack of transparency. One minute I'm having a fun game, then the next lobby I join has 3 mods who proceed to fuck up the game and cause a leavetrain. I couldn't even keep my eyes on the damn screen because I was getting vertigo from the shaking. And to top it all off, he spams me with random achievements at the end of the game and bans me, all with no explanation given.

I am a firm believer that someone who has been accused of a crime has a right to know what they stand accused of. The framers of the U.S. constitution, at least, would agree with me on that one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) So far, I have a very old report on me from 2012, and I was on the watch list for 11 months without complaining about it, as that report was warranted. I have another report on me from 2 months ago that borders on frivolous, whatever, that's fine too. But I have never skyped or contacted anyone in game for the purposes of cheating, and I don't think anyone could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Why would I? It isn't fun. I already have more than 20K points. I don't even care about them anymore. Being able to -prefer roles is the last functional advantage points can get me, and I can already do it. New character models don't excite me in the least.

Mostly, I just try to have fun with this game, hopefully without infringing upon others' enjoyment of the game in the process. Please make whatever report(s) you have on me public so that I can appeal them. This shouldn't be a problem for you if you're not trying to hide anything. I think with necroplant on a hiatus you guys are being too heavy-handed with mostly legit players. If you can't at least let me know why I'm banned, then this game isn't worth my time anymore. I can't say I'll miss most of you.

lol

[Lysergic]

Smod or higher, please review this and post a detailed summary.

I am slammed this week; finished one job, have another tomorrow till the 25th out in the desert. If no one reviews before I'm back, I will do it.

[Cryptonic]

It's an easy one to report, not much happened in it that needs to be detailed other than the end.
Entire game proceeds normally, other than all the staff and staff friends seem to be afk for large portions of it lol.


Very end of the game, Helz starts giving achievements (doesn't say to who, because of how achievement command shows in chat).
Bank Robber is given with the other achievements.

(not verbatim, but went pretty much like this:)
TheDougler: lol who got bank robber.
Psyduck: lol who do you think
TheDougler: idk
Psyduck: you

- Shows that they were talking about the situation via Out of Game communication, because Psyduck was aware of who was given the achievements when only Helz would actually know. Because conversation happened outside of the game, I am not able to comment on that portion.

Helz bans TheDougler.
Helz kicks TheDougler AFTER points, which seems redundant.




PM's from discussion I had w/ Helz:


In a conversation the other day Slaol wanted him and Balthy perma banned. His main account is banned and the account I banned there is a smurf. I want to ban them both and talk to them. Maybe just leave them permabanned or maybe very strongly push the idea they need to clean up their act. Earlier today I watched a replay in SC of him game throwing again.

I didn't really understand this: "the account I banned there is a smurf". The account that was banned in this replay wasn't a smurf, as if you check the ID 1-S2-1-2956484 in the replay/screenshot to the forum, it's his normal account.

I also really think that, as a staff member, if you have a replay where you see someone gamethrow, then you should upload it onto the website. I don't think we should ever punish someone without evidence. If we don't upload all our evidence, then it's no different from just making shit up.



So, I'm still waiting for Helz to clarify in this thread regarding the ban lol. I didn't want to post anything before him, but oh well.

[Lysergic]

Well Slaol is the word of god on this one, and if they were slated for ban anyway then whatever. Agreed on uploading replays; I understand waiting a while (I rarely want to make reports when I'm playing, but I always save the replays for reporting on another day). Some comment from Helz would be good for explaining this; imo we should always post our own replays and explanations of power use rather than waiting for the banned parties to cry abuse.

[MisterL2]

If this is a real ban, Helz, then don't even bother explaining yourself. After 4 years of playing this game, the attitude of the moderators has finally gotten to me. I know I engage in some light trolling on occasion (check my sig) and am viewed with disdain by every mod here, but the powertrip some of these guys are on disgusts me, not to mention the complete lack of transparency. One minute I'm having a fun game, then the next lobby I join has 3 mods who proceed to fuck up the game and cause a leavetrain. I couldn't even keep my eyes on the damn screen because I was getting vertigo from the shaking. And to top it all off, he spams me with random achievements at the end of the game and bans me, all with no explanation given.

I am a firm believer that someone who has been accused of a crime has a right to know what they stand accused of. The framers of the U.S. constitution, at least, would agree with me on that one. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution) So far, I have a very old report on me from 2012, and I was on the watch list for 11 months without complaining about it, as that report was warranted. I have another report on me from 2 months ago that borders on frivolous, whatever, that's fine too. But I have never skyped or contacted anyone in game for the purposes of cheating, and I don't think anyone could prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. Why would I? It isn't fun. I already have more than 20K points. I don't even care about them anymore. Being able to -prefer roles is the last functional advantage points can get me, and I can already do it. New character models don't excite me in the least.

Mostly, I just try to have fun with this game, hopefully without infringing upon others' enjoyment of the game in the process. Please make whatever report(s) you have on me public so that I can appeal them. This shouldn't be a problem for you if you're not trying to hide anything. I think with necroplant on a hiatus you guys are being too heavy-handed with mostly legit players. If you can't at least let me know why I'm banned, then this game isn't worth my time anymore. I can't say I'll miss most of you.

Edit: for the record, I seriously thought the ban was a joke. Pardon me, but how the fuck are the revelations this guy had in his skype convo, which he shows no indication of ever making us privy to, valid grounds for banning someone? If the cronyism and circlejerking going on here is any indication of how cavalierly mod abuse is taken by the staff, then you may as well get rid of the option to report it altogether. Just admit outright that the staff bans players they don't like and leave it at that. There's no need for false pretenses here.

Helz does not like me, and so he banned me. Simple as that. There's no recourse for me because apparently he can get away with banning someone without evidence, or even going through the proper channels. If this game wasn't already dying, then a few more moderators like Helz will be the final nail in the coffin.

I have to say he has a valid point there and I am very much for someone of high rank to review this asap.

[thedougler]

Well Slaol is the word of god on this one, and if they were slated for ban anyway then whatever. Agreed on uploading replays; I understand waiting a while (I rarely want to make reports when I'm playing, but I always save the replays for reporting on another day). Some comment from Helz would be good for explaining this; imo we should always post our own replays and explanations of power use rather than waiting for the banned parties to cry abuse.

While I don't remember outright gamethrowing at any point in the last year at least (or ever, come to think of it...), if he has proof of me doing it, I agree he ought to post it for review before unilaterally deciding to ban me.


It's an easy one to report, not much happened in it that needs to be detailed other than the end.
Entire game proceeds normally, other than all the staff and staff friends seem to be afk for large portions of it lol.


Very end of the game, Helz starts giving achievements (doesn't say to who, because of how achievement command shows in chat).
Bank Robber is given with the other achievements.

(not verbatim, but went pretty much like this:)
TheDougler: lol who got bank robber.
Psyduck: lol who do you think
TheDougler: idk
Psyduck: you

- Shows that they were talking about the situation via Out of Game communication, because Psyduck was aware of who was given the achievements when only Helz would actually know. Because conversation happened outside of the game, I am not able to comment on that portion.

Helz bans TheDougler.
Helz kicks TheDougler AFTER points, which seems redundant.




PM's from discussion I had w/ Helz:



I didn't really understand this: "the account I banned there is a smurf". The account that was banned in this replay wasn't a smurf, as if you check the ID 1-S2-1-2956484 in the replay/screenshot to the forum, it's his normal account.

I also really think that, as a staff member, if you have a replay where you see someone gamethrow, then you should upload it onto the website. I don't think we should ever punish someone without evidence. If we don't upload all our evidence, then it's no different from just making shit up.



So, I'm still waiting for Helz to clarify in this thread regarding the ban lol. I didn't want to post anything before him, but oh well.

Yeah, Psyduck PMed me after game accusing me of using a smurf. I assured him I was not using one, and he seemed to believe me when I provided links proving that I've been playing since at least 2012 and that I had my points restored. I started playing SC2 on a new PC in 2014 or so, and had to get my points and achievements restored by Elixir. The reason I wasn't banned already is not because I was using a smurf, but because (I assume) the report on me skyping seems to be taking forever to process. I fully intend to appeal it as soon as that's done, but for the moment there's nothing I can do about it.

Anyway... Just checked earlier and I'm still banned. :S

[Helz]

Alright. I will actually dig into this today. I have been doing... Stuff. Other than staff shit for the last few days.

The pending reports are pending because I have not uploaded the ban manager. I have not uploaded to the ban manager because last time I did someone started the timer without uploading the bans to the map. This means everyone with a punishment would have served a reduced sentence and it was a pain in the ass to fix. Im pretty much holding off until I hear someone say "Hey, Im gona update the map" and then I will upload.

Once the ban manager is edited reports get thrown into the 'processed' section which is where everyone can see them and do fun stuff with them like appeal.

Here is where I am at with this. It sucks you are putting up with shit right now. But its not like its just 1 report on you. Its 4, 2 of which are old and 2 are pending. It is my belief that the purpose of moderation is to protect the general community from hell and those problems should instead shift to the players causing them. This is whats happening here.
I got 2 open reports, players starting threads about you and I can hardly play a game without someone saying "So what are you guys going to do about Balthy and TheDougler?" and a bunch of staff saying you guys should be banned. I then had a player grab me in lobby and play a replay for me showing you as a vigilante shoot a mayor who had already revealed.

I have been saying this for a very long time. Probably over a year. It is just stupid to walk on the edge of whats ok acting like you are going to destroy games. Saying in the lobby 'I am going to throw' when you are part of a clan that is known for throwing. It builds a negative reputation for yourself especially when you are in partys with players who reveal the Mafia D2.

With that said I do like you. This is not a personal bias of mine and I have gone to bat for all kinds of players with a shitty reputation in the past. Balthy would be a prime example. This has nothing to do with my personal feelings of you and everything to do with a combination of evidence as well as the community's feelings of you.

So this is what I will do. I will finalize the reports on you so you can see them and talk about them. I will try to hunt down the player that showed me the replay of you shooting a revealed mayor and get that on the site. I will even try to dig through staff chat and find conversation quotes if you ask for it just so you can have 100% transparency on what is going on here.

Also if you remember correctly I asked you in the lobby why you were not in tafkal and you said you were on a smurf. My intention was to in game ban your smurf account and leave your normal account to be banned through regular channels.

[thedougler]

Alright. I will actually dig into this today. I have been doing... Stuff. Other than staff shit for the last few days.

The pending reports are pending because I have not uploaded the ban manager. I have not uploaded to the ban manager because last time I did someone started the timer without uploading the bans to the map. This means everyone with a punishment would have served a reduced sentence and it was a pain in the ass to fix. Im pretty much holding off until I hear someone say "Hey, Im gona update the map" and then I will upload.

Once the ban manager is edited reports get thrown into the 'processed' section which is where everyone can see them and do fun stuff with them like appeal.

Here is where I am at with this. It sucks you are putting up with shit right now. But its not like its just 1 report on you. Its 4, 2 of which are old and 2 are pending. It is my belief that the purpose of moderation is to protect the general community from hell and those problems should instead shift to the players causing them. This is whats happening here.
I got 2 open reports, players starting threads about you and I can hardly play a game without someone saying "So what are you guys going to do about Balthy and TheDougler?" and a bunch of staff saying you guys should be banned. I then had a player grab me in lobby and play a replay for me showing you as a vigilante shoot a mayor who had already revealed.

I have been saying this for a very long time. Probably over a year. It is just stupid to walk on the edge of whats ok acting like you are going to destroy games. Saying in the lobby 'I am going to throw' when you are part of a clan that is known for throwing. It builds a negative reputation for yourself especially when you are in partys with players who reveal the Mafia D2.

With that said I do like you. This is not a personal bias of mine and I have gone to bat for all kinds of players with a shitty reputation in the past. Balthy would be a prime example. This has nothing to do with my personal feelings of you and everything to do with a combination of evidence as well as the community's feelings of you.

So this is what I will do. I will finalize the reports on you so you can see them and talk about them. I will try to hunt down the player that showed me the replay of you shooting a revealed mayor and get that on the site. I will even try to dig through staff chat and find conversation quotes if you ask for it just so you can have 100% transparency on what is going on here.

Also if you remember correctly I asked you in the lobby why you were not in tafkal and you said you were on a smurf. My intention was to in game ban your smurf account and leave your normal account to be banned through regular channels.

I 100% understand how I appear kind of scummy to all the staff here. Tafkal was originally just a troll clan, but was infiltrated by some actual gamethrowers and hackers. Balthy and the clan officers (myself among them, for a time) did their best to clamp down on anyone who actually ruins games. I did in fact say "I WILL THROW" in many lobbies for a time when people would point out I was in a troll clan. I got great lulz from saying it, but never actually threw. Most people caught on to the joke, but some became seriously convinced that I was some kind of chronic gamethrower.

IIRC I never claimed I was using a smurf in the lobby. I said before the game that I had left Tafkal because I am set to be banned soon and don't want to ruin the clan's image further until my name is cleared. I can't even remember who asked. It may have been Phomerii or Psyduck. It should have been pretty obvious from the games played +points +achievements, not to mention the ID that it was not a smurf account. But whatever...

As for the replay you mention, I don't remember it, but if you saw it I guess I'm guilty as charged. I don't remember the context and it's certainly out of character for me, but it sounds plausible that I would make a dumbass move like that at least once in all the games I've played. So that's 1 count of gamethrowing against me. I haven't seen the 2 recent replays for which I was reported, but Cryptonic said that the issue was that I appeared to be skyping with another player (who was in fact on my friends list at the time). I have never skyped and don't think it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that I did. As soon as they are made public I will appeal them.

As for the community complaining about us, most of the sour grapes are coming from MasterNinja and a guy called HarryDresden. MasterNinja positively revels in filing frivolous reports. (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29624-BananaChucho) HarryDresden calls me a bank hacker every time I encounter him, with zero evidence. He also refers to me exclusively as "Douglar", so I think he's just trolling. But the reputation these two alone have given me ensures that players I'm not even familiar with kick me from lobbies. I'm sure there are others within the community convinced that I'm a thrower due to my antics, but I really wish you would rely more on reports and less on hearsay.

Anyway, sorry if I gave the community the wrong idea about me. I know I can be abrasive to most, but I really do my best never to actually break any rules.

[Lysergic]

So that's 1 count of gamethrowing against me. I haven't seen the 2 recent replays for which I was reported, but Cryptonic said that the issue was that I appeared to be skyping with another player (who was in fact on my friends list at the time). I have never skyped and don't think it can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that I did. As soon as they are made public I will appeal them.

The burden of proof here isn't beyond a reasonable doubt. This isn't a criminal court proceeding; it's the private moderation of a game.

You have legitimate points in your earlier posts about us needing to be fair. But don't think that we need to be fair because we owe you anything or because you have rights. No one has paid for this map, and no one on staff is paid for their efforts. We need to be fair because that's what gives the community confidence in the staff and helps people to enjoy the map. But let's please drop the talk about the rights of people who get reported for game throwing and whatnot. It's not about rights or what people are owed; it's about what actions we as staff need to take to keep the game fun for the most people. Rights do not enter into the equation, and the fact that you can view the reports against you and appeal them is already more than what you get in most games (hell, the idea of Rockstar letting me see who reported me for griefing in GTA Online and then appeal the sentence is laughable).


As for the community complaining about us, most of the sour grapes are coming from MasterNinja and a guy called HarryDresden.

This is patently false. In fact, only one of the reports against you comes from either of those people.


I'm sure there are others within the community convinced that I'm a thrower due to my antics, but I really wish you would rely more on reports and less on hearsay.

Believe it or not, we don't just ban someone because one or two people complains. If we did that, we would have banned HarryDresden a long time ago since all you Tafkal kids seem to hate him so much (I see you guys whine about him in-game all the time).

It takes quite a lot for us to ban someone, and even more for us to use the in-game ban command. The complaints against Tafkal (and you specifically) are myriad, and come from a pretty big chunk of the player base.

As for staff, no shit staff doesn't like you Tafkal guys. You're a constant headache for us because of these reports. It's seriously nothing personal, but when you constantly have to put out fires because of the same group of people, it's pretty natural to dislike them. I'd be willing to go out on a limb here and say that most of staff favors seeing you banned. If you guys clean up your act and stop doing things to make everyone dislike you, maybe we won't be in this situation in the future.

I'm all for this report being given due diligence and a fair review, simply because that's how we do things. And I'm all for you having the chance to see and appeal your reports. But at the end of the day, you haven't been put in this position because of the actions of others; you made this bed and now you've got to sleep in it.

[Brendan]

He was already scheduled for a ban. I don't see why it matters if he got it early. Just my opinion. Every single game I play someone is complaining about Tafkal.

[Cryptonic]

He was already scheduled for a ban. I don't see why it matters if he got it early. Just my opinion. Every single game I play someone is complaining about Tafkal.

Because if it's appealed, we will need to then go through the process of restoring his bank. Just a hassle for everyone involved.

[Lysergic]

Marked as Audit and moved to Appeals for transparency's sake. Board rules still apply; just because you can read this doesn't mean you're free to post. Don't make me hand out infractions and regret making this public.

[watermeloann]

Will he be unbanned ?

[Helz]

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/30601-TheDougler-Replay-Proof-%286-replays%29 3rd report. Moved to processed so you can see it.
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/30464-Balthy-1-S2-1-5284583-TheDougler-1-S2-1-2956484-fafa-1-S2-1-6752693-ToGoodForYou-1-S2-1-4088605 2nd report Moved to processed so you can see it
www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/30494-Balthy-1-S2-1-5284583-TheDougler-1-S2-1-2956484-Fafa-1-S2-1-6752693 1st report moved to processed so you can see it.

I guess you could call it 9 reports if you wanted but it doesn't really matter. This is just about transparency. I will PM you tomorrow or some time after you have looked through them.

[Helz]

Alright. It has sat long enough. Call it 24 hours if any other staff want to weigh in.

And if you are not part of the report do not post here. This is exactly what Lysergic said not to do (Looking at you book)

[Firebringer]

I think if they agree to completely disband [Tafkal] all their sentences can be downgraded to a Watch List x4 or something.

The biggest cause of concern is that they play in unison and they all act almost like they are skyping in each of these games, which we can't prove.

If they want no punishments they should:
1) Never use a conformable name when playing together (This goes for TheDougler and Balthy)
2) Disband Tafkal on SC2

If they agree to those I am fine with no bans being put in place. Any future valid reports will be met with a ban though. Those would my terms, I think they are reasonable enough.

You can have a clan, don't name it after a known troll.

[Helz]

12x ban list with some other details worked out with TheDougler. Im sure people will be upset no matter what I put this as so just PM me with your gripes.

I will try to make time to update the ban manager soon so I can clean up that reports section as well.

Closed