Day 3: The Avatar and the Firelord

[Forum Mafia GM]

Aang and Zuko both learn about the strong and close childhood friendship of Avatar Roku and Firelord Sozin. On his wedding day Sozin told Roku that he believed that, as the pinnacle of civilization, the Fire Nation should control the destiny of the entire world to ensure universal prosperity and asked for his help. As the Avatar, Roku knew the importance of balance between all people and refused.

When Sozin conquered an Earth Kingdom colony, Roku confronted him and demanded he give up the colony immediately and threatened to kill him if he tried to do anything else that crossed the line. Many years later, Roku's island volcano erupted. Sozin saw the eruption from his home, and though they hadn't spoken in years, he decided to help his old friend. They tried their hardest to save the island from the volcanicn eruption, but it proved too great a task. As Sozin's dragon came to save him from the doomed island, he realized that with Roku dead, all his dreams would be possible and let him die. From his prison cell, Iroh tells Zuko that as the great-grandson of both Roku and Sozin, he alone has the ability to resolve their endless conflict and restore order and peace to the world.



FM Slaol was slain by a vigilante. He was Toph, a truthseer.
FM Raiden was slain by a vigilante. He was Piandao, a blacksmith.
- Role List -

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation

- Neutral Evil -
Combustion Man (Mass Murderer)
Hama (Hidden Neutral Evil)

- The Gaang -
Aang (Avatar)
Katara (Doctor)
Sokka (Nurse)
Toph (Truthseer)
Zuko (Vigilante)
Appa (Bus Driver)
Iroh (Grand Lotus)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Blacksmith)
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang

- Ember Island Informant -
Cabbage Merchant (Hidden Benign)

- Player List -

FM AscendedOne (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14640)
FM Auckmid (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14641)
FM Clawtrocity (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14642)
FM Crimson (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14643)
FM divemaster127 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14644)
FM FalseTruth (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14645)
FM Ganondorf (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14646)
FM Gerik (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14647)
FM Goonswarm (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14648)
FM Illidan (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14649)
FM McPwnage (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14650)
FM MileS (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14651)
FM monster (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14652)
FM MrSmarter (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14653)
FM Narks (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14654)
FM NorthStar (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14655)
FM oops_ur_dead (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14656)
FM Ozymandias (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14657)
FM philie (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14658)
FM Procyon (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14659)
FM Raiden (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14660)
FM Rumpel (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14661)
FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14662)
FM Severn (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14663)
FM Slaol (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14664)
FM Spy (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14665)
FM TheJackofSpades (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14666)
FM vornksr (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14667)
FM Yayap (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14668)
FM Zack (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14669)

-Dead Players-
FM Clawtrocity - Citizen - Killed by a vigilante on Night One
FM Slaol - Truthseer - Killed by a vigilante on Night Two
FM Raiden - Blacksmith - Killed by a vigilante on Night Two


14 Votes to lynch
Day ends at this time (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10pm+central+standard+time+january+9th+2015).

[FM Spy]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Spy]

I had an uneventful night.

[FM Ganondorf]

Hi guys, I've been charged.

[FM MrSmarter]

This vigilante is killing everyone...
FM Ganondorf
Well we should have got him yesterday.

[FM MrSmarter]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Spy]

I guess it doesn't matter about the Gaang post anymore, though.

So are we sheeping Monster for being scummy as hell, or Ganondorf for being a liar about being Toph, today?

Going to bed, will review in the morning.

[FM MrSmarter]

Hi guys, I've been charged.

So Toph what do you have to say for yourself?

[FM FalseTruth]

Isn't this Day 3?

[FM Ganondorf]

So Toph what do you have to say for yourself?


I've been framed.

[FM Narks]

I got role blocked....

Thanks for making me reveal guys.

FM Yayap

For pushing that damn train on me yesterday.

[FM FalseTruth]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM FalseTruth]

I've been framed.

I don't believe that.

[FM Narks]

Can a Tailor forge an RP name?

[FM Goonswarm]

I had a feeling he was lying

FM Ganondorf

[FM divemaster127]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Ganondorf]

I am part of the Gaang

This is the truth.

[FM Narks]

I've been framed.

First of all, framing doesn't affect what you claim, nor your role card.

Second of all, these vigilantes needs to stop.

[FM MrSmarter]

I am guessing one of the shots was Auckmid since he got a gun. Or the vig got motivated by Sokka for 2 shots. I'd like to hear what Auckmid has to say.

[FM Narks]

Does every form of death appear different?

If not what ones do?

[FM Narks]

I am a member of the Gaang

[FM Zack]

So, someone was found tinkering with my possessions last night...

FM Ganondorf

I don't like what he's said so far after Toph died.

All I can post tonight, I'll be back in the morning maybe...

[FM divemaster127]

FM Ganondorf

Two truthseekers is a possibility. However, the "Toph" part of the claim seems like a major scum slip, so I am heavily favoring Ganondorfs lynch.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Isn't this Day 3?

Yes, I accidentally hit "2" when posting it. Should be fixed now. Although apparently it does not change the heading above those who replied before I fixed it, so I can't do anything about that.

[FM Ganondorf]

Can a Tailor forge an RP name?

Please provide your "lookout" feedback, thanks.

[FM FalseTruth]

-Dead Players-
FM Clawtrocity - Citizen - Killed by a vigilante on Night One
FM Slaol - truthseer - Killed by a vigilante on Night Two
FM Raiden - blacksmith - Killed by a vigilante on Night Two
[/center]



Who's the idiot that keeps killing Townies? Out yourself, you're too dumb to live.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Does every form of death appear different?

If not what ones do?

Yes, they do.

[FM divemaster127]

@Auckmid
I asked twice yesterday your motive for revealing that you had the blacksmith gun, and you still didn't answer. Same question.

[FM Narks]

Hi guys, I've been charged.


So, someone was found tinkering with my possessions last night...

FM Ganondorf

I don't like what he's said so far after Toph died.

All I can post tonight, I'll be back in the morning maybe...

These lead me to believe that the other neutral evil is an arsonist or a Electromaniac.

Or, we have a technician among us.

[FM MrSmarter]

Please provide your "lookout" feedback, thanks.

Did you even read his first post? I'm also guessing you didn't read the day start when you said that u were charged.

[FM Narks]

I got role blocked....

Thanks for making me reveal guys.

FM Yayap

For pushing that damn train on me yesterday.


Please provide your "lookout" feedback, thanks.

Read more, thanks.

[FM Ganondorf]

These lead me to believe that the other neutral evil is an arsonist or a Electromaniac.

Or, we have a technician among us.

And the 3rd charge is where?

[FM MrSmarter]

Does 1-use gun show up as vigilante kill? If not what does it show up as then?

[FM Procyon]

Really FalseTruth? You want a vigilante to out themselves so that scum can kill them? Even when a vig is a very powerful role? I don't if that's scummy or just plain stupid.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Can a Tailor forge an RP name?

Yes.

[FM Narks]

I got role blocked....

Thanks for making me reveal guys.

FM Yayap

For pushing that damn train on me yesterday.


And the 3rd charge is where?

Excuse me, I thought that the phoenix king couldn't prep if crown princess charged someone.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Does 1-use gun show up as vigilante kill? If not what does it show up as then?

No. Shows up as one-shot gun.

[FM Zack]

These lead me to believe that the other neutral evil is an arsonist or a Electromaniac.

Or, we have a technician among us.

I know I said I was leaving but just one more comment to this.


Announcement

There have been a few questions about this to me, so I'm just going to clarify publicly so everyone is aware: The Fire Nation may only perform one killing action per night. Killing abilities include: mafia factional kill (anyone can do this instead of their normal actions), bruiser's ability, disguising, any killing abilities gained by a thief, Phoenix King's Sabotage (not his prep), and Crown Princess's charge.

So to all those who worried about a second Fire Nation-induced genocide tonight, fear not. Well, fear less. For now.

So they can prep us all they want and still charge.

[FM MrSmarter]

No. Shows up as one-shot gun.

Well that means that the vig was motivated or that there are 2 vigilantes.

[FM Ganondorf]

Excuse me, I thought that the phoenix king couldn't prep if crown princess charged someone.

Is that so? In that case. Which charge was a lie?

Charge a player at night.
When 2+ charged players interact at night they will die.
When 3+ charged players interact at night their last wills will be wiped.
When 4+ charged players interact at night their roles will be wiped.
When 5+ charged players interact at night there will be no host statement about their deaths.
When 2+ charged players interact they will be uncharged.
You are immune to charge death.

[FM Narks]

Apparently, the tailor can forge RP names...

So there are two scenarios

1. Tailor gave a iroh suit to slaol, hoping that he would die, directing the towns attention to ganon. This means ganon would most likely NOT be firescum

2. Slaol IS iroh, which makes ganon seem anti-town for his claim yesterday.

[FM MrSmarter]

Is that so? In that case. Which charge was a lie?

Charge a player at night.
When 2+ charged players interact at night they will die.
When 3+ charged players interact at night their last wills will be wiped.
When 4+ charged players interact at night their roles will be wiped.
When 5+ charged players interact at night there will be no host statement about their deaths.
When 2+ charged players interact they will be uncharged.
You are immune to charge death.

What are you getting at? Azula gets 2 charges. She can use both on 1 person or 1 on two different people. I bet that she only charged one person today and didn't use the other one to allow u to fake claim you are charged.

[FM Ganondorf]

What are you getting at? Azula gets 2 charges. She can use both on 1 person or 1 on two different people. I bet that she only charged one person today and didn't use the other one to allow u to fake claim you are charged.

I was talking about d2. If Azula wasn't charging n1 then why were 2 charges claimed.

[FM Narks]

He might be referring to the electromaniac.

[FM MrSmarter]

Apparently, the tailor can forge RP names...

So there are two scenarios

1. Tailor gave a iroh suit to slaol, hoping that he would die, directing the towns attention to ganon. This means ganon would most likely NOT be firescum

2. Slaol IS iroh, which makes ganon seem anti-town for his claim yesterday.

I don't think there is a tailor behind slaol's death since it was a vigilante that killed him. They had to have good predictions to predict a vig would kill him.

[FM Narks]

I don't think there is a tailor behind slaol's death since it was a vigilante that killed him. They had to have good predictions to predict a vig would kill him.

Crazier things have happened.

Remember the infamous FM?

[FM Procyon]

I think Azula charged N1, since there was no mafia kill that night, and I was charged.

[FM FalseTruth]

Really FalseTruth? You want a vigilante to out themselves so that scum can kill them? Even when a vig is a very powerful role? I don't if that's scummy or just plain stupid.

The vig's have brilliantly killed 3 Townies and zero Scum.

I consider it a policy lynch. :p

Actually, though, I want to lynch Ganon today.

Ganondorf

[FM divemaster127]

Apparently, the tailor can forge RP names...

So there are two scenarios

1. Tailor gave a iroh suit to slaol, hoping that he would die, directing the towns attention to ganon. This means ganon would most likely NOT be firescum

2. Slaol IS iroh, which makes ganon seem anti-town for his claim yesterday.

While Slaol did have certain scummy elements to his posts with active lurking and lack on contribution, he was not an obvious kill target. I would be surprised if the mafia anticipated his death and tailored him instead of someone more high profile.

[FM Ganondorf]

While Slaol did have certain scummy elements to his posts with active lurking and lack on contribution, he was not an obvious kill target. I would be surprised if the mafia anticipated his death and tailored him instead of someone more high profile.

More likely, they tailored themselves.

I know a way we can settle this, but we have to get feedback from FM Narks. I was going to prove he was lying today, because he slipped yesterday, but I can't because he didn't give us anything to go on. He was wrong about nobody visiting me, but you won't believe the reason I know that.

[FM MrSmarter]

More likely, they tailored themselves.

I know a way we can settle this, but we have to get feedback from FM Narks. I was going to prove he was lying today, because he slipped yesterday, but I can't because he didn't give us anything to go on. He was wrong about nobody visiting me, but you won't believe the reason I know that.

Say it then. You are already in a terrible position.

[FM Ganondorf]

Say it then. You are already in a terrible position.

I visited myself.

[FM divemaster127]

Can active mafia members direct the night actions of inactive living mafia members?

[FM MrSmarter]

I visited myself.


What is your "true" role then?

[FM Ganondorf]

What is your "true" role then?

I am a truthseer, and truthseer self visits when checking a post.

Confirm.

[FM Narks]

Role predictions

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation (Consort)
Hidden Fire Nation (Maybe Tailor?)
Hidden Fire Nation (Investigative)
Hidden Fire Nation (Wildcard)


- Neutral Evil -
Combustion Man (Mass Murderer)
Hama (Doppleganger?) (Most likely is saving up charges)

- The Gaang -
Aang (Avatar)
Katara (Doctor)
Sokka (Nurse)
Toph (Truthseer)
Zuko (Vigilante)
Appa (Bus Driver)
Iroh (Grand Lotus)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Blacksmith)
Hidden Gaang (Vigilante?)
Hidden Gaang (Escort / Doctor)
Hidden Gaang (Survivor / Executioner / Beguiler)
Hidden Gaang (Lookout) <----- Me!
Hidden Gaang (Possible Truthseer)
Hidden Gaang (Mayor / Marshall)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang (White Lotus?)
Hidden Gaang (White Lotus)

- Ember Island Informant -
Cabbage Merchant (Survivor)

[FM Narks]

I visited myself.


That was stupid...

If someone visits themselves will it appear on lookout / detective feedback?

[FM Narks]

With some of the town roles in my prediction list they will at least be in their full role cards. (if aang or iroh visit them)

[FM Narks]

If a person with multiple roles activated dies, will they all be revealed?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Can active mafia members direct the night actions of inactive living mafia members?

Yes, but only if those mafia members did not submit an action themselves.

[FM Ganondorf]

FM Narks

[Forum Mafia GM]

That was stupid...

If someone visits themselves will it appear on lookout / detective feedback?

Yes.

[Forum Mafia GM]

If a person with multiple roles activated dies, will they all be revealed?

Yes.

[FM Narks]

More likely, they tailored themselves.

I know a way we can settle this, but we have to get feedback from FM Narks. I was going to prove he was lying today, because he slipped yesterday, but I can't because he didn't give us anything to go on. He was wrong about nobody visiting me, but you won't believe the reason I know that.

Look at this you ass. (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=469418&viewfull=1#post469418)

[FM Narks]

FM Ganondorf

No one is going to vote me xpt your mafiascum buddies.

[FM FalseTruth]

I forgot the FM...

FM Ganondorf

[FM Narks]

You lied yourself into a corner ganon.

[FM Ganondorf]

Look at this you ass. (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=469418&viewfull=1#post469418)

Tell us then who visited me?

[FM Narks]

Exactly no one visited you last night, not even you.

[FM Narks]

Exactly no one visited you night 1, not even you.

Fixed

[FM Narks]

Well I visited you. But that is besides the point,

I was the only person to visit you, you did not visit yourself n1

[FM Ganondorf]

Exactly no one visited you last night, not even you.

That's exactly the point I'm making I did. I challenge you to get one day of feedback correct, I almost guarantee you won't.

[FM Narks]

Lol you can challenge me to get one day of feedback correct when your actually a truthseer.

[FM Spy]

FM Ganondorf

[FM divemaster127]

Okay, so, about the lack of modkilling...

There are several players in the game who have made no posts despite the game being over a week in, making their chance of participating at all next to zero. Hosts should know very well that afk living town members are worse then useless, since they clog up the towns ability to lynch while providing zero contribution during the day or the night. However, an afk mafia member is much better for the mafia then a dead mafia, since they can still use their night actions while the inactive mafia members are unlikely to be at risk of dying and, even if they do die, require the other factions to spend their killing actions on them.

If the the afks are all town or almost all town, the hosts should know that not modkilling them puts the town at an even greater disadvantage, giving little reason for them not to be modkilled. If it was even three town to one mafia, modkilling all of them would be fairly evenly balanced and neaten out the game. However, if two or more of the afks are scum, not modkilling them would make up for any disadvantage given to the mafia by their inactivity since their night actions can be used with minimal chance of them being killed.

As such, if the afks are mostly or all town, the hosts should modkill them instead of further handicapping the town by keeping them alive. However, if the afks are not getting modkilled, killing them may become a viable option.

[FM Ganondorf]

Okay, so, about the lack of modkilling...

There are several players in the game who have made no posts despite the game being over a week in, making their chance of participating at all next to zero. Hosts should know very well that afk living town members are worse then useless, since they clog up the towns ability to lynch while providing zero contribution during the day or the night. However, an afk mafia member is much better for the mafia then a dead mafia, since they can still use their night actions while the inactive mafia members are unlikely to be at risk of dying and, even if they do die, require the other factions to spend their killing actions on them.

If the the afks are all town or almost all town, the hosts should know that not modkilling them puts the town at an even greater disadvantage, giving little reason for them not to be modkilled. If it was even three town to one mafia, modkilling all of them would be fairly evenly balanced and neaten out the game. However, if two or more of the afks are scum, not modkilling them would make up for any disadvantage given to the mafia by their inactivity since their night actions can be used with minimal chance of them being killed.

As such, if the afks are mostly or all town, the hosts should modkill them instead of further handicapping the town by keeping them alive. However, if the afks are not getting modkilled, killing them may become a viable option.

Agreed.

[FM Narks]

The vig(s) need to target the COMPLETELY inactive players.

Not the semi-inactive players.

[FM divemaster127]

Role predictions

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation (Consort)
Hidden Fire Nation (Maybe Tailor?)
Hidden Fire Nation (Investigative)
Hidden Fire Nation (Wildcard)



I find it interesting that you didn't include blackmailer. The obvious conclusion about Raiden's death is that he is the blackmsmith and he was blackmailed yesterday. Do you know something I don't, or do you just disagree with that assumption?

[FM Narks]

I visited myself.



I find it interesting that you didn't include blackmailer. The obvious conclusion about Raiden's death is that he is the blackmsmith and he was blackmailed yesterday. Do you know something I don't, or do you just disagree with that assumption?

It's the same problem with the tailor hypothesis.

[FM Narks]

I'm sorry, I do not work multi-quote well.

[FM divemaster127]

It's the same problem with the tailor hypothesis.

Explain more. The tailor hypothesis is that Slaol could have been tailored to appear as Toph to frame Ganondorf. Do you believe that Raiden was tailored to appear as blacksmith?

[FM Ganondorf]

Explain more. The tailor hypothesis is that Slaol could have been tailored to appear as Toph to frame Ganondorf. Do you believe that Raiden was tailored to appear as blacksmith?

I think its more along the lines of Raiden and Slaol were both vig shot.

[FM Spy]

I think he means that both Slaol and Raiden were too low profile to attract the attention of any potential blacksmith or tailor.

[FM Ganondorf]

But the obvious blackmail claim in the FAQ is obvious.

[FM Spy]

Tailor or blackmailer, excuse me.

[FM Narks]

I think he means that both Slaol and Raiden were too low profile to attract the attention of any potential blacksmith or tailor.


I think its more along the lines of Raiden and Slaol were both vig shot.


Both are kinda what I was referring too.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Is that so? In that case. Which charge was a lie?

Charge a player at night.
When 2+ charged players interact at night they will die.
When 3+ charged players interact at night their last wills will be wiped.
When 4+ charged players interact at night their roles will be wiped.
When 5+ charged players interact at night there will be no host statement about their deaths.
When 2+ charged players interact they will be uncharged.
You are immune to charge death.

I was charged on Night 1 so we cannot interact with each other or we die.

[FM Ganondorf]

I was charged on Night 1 so we cannot interact with each other or we die.

I don't interact, again I self visit to check a post.

[FM Narks]

I don't interact, again I self visit to check a post.

If you actually were a truthseer.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

So what proof is there that FM Ganondorf is scum? Not hypothetical proof but physical/call out proof?

[FM Narks]

The fact that on n1 he did not visit himself / take no action.

[FM divemaster127]

We know two things for sure about Raiden.

1) He was indirectly claiming blackmailed TPR yesterday.

2) He appeared as a blacksmith in the graveyard.


The possible explanations for this are as follows...

A) He really is the blacksmith and really was blackmailed. This seems the most obvious and likely conclusion.

B) He is scum and was tailored to appear as the blacksmith, with his blackmailed claim being a lie. While it is possible, I find it extremely unlikely that scum would correctly predict his death, tailor him and then choose blacksmith as his fake role.

C) Raiden really was the blacksmith, but doing an incredibly weird and risky gambit. While very strange moves have been made in previous games, I am having a really hard time believing a town aligned player would fake blackmailed.



Raiden being the blacksmith and the existence of a blackmailer seems by far the most probable conclusion, so I am still interested why blackmailer didn't appear on Narks' role list and its existence is being brought into much question.

[FM Narks]

We know two things for sure about Raiden.

1) He was indirectly claiming blackmailed TPR yesterday.


I never caught that.

[FM Crimson]

when a truthseer "checks" a post are they "visitng" anyone? and if so, who?

I just got home from work

[FM TheJackofSpades]

The fact that on n1 he did not visit himself / take no action.

And that would make him scum because?

[FM Ganondorf]

And that would make him scum because?

If his lead were true it would mean I'm not truthseer, which I am.

[FM Narks]

He claims truthseer, which visits him/herself whenever they check a post.

[FM divemaster127]

So what proof is there that FM Ganondorf is scum? Not hypothetical proof but physical/call out proof?

Gandondorf claimed Toph the truthseeker, a character which turned up in the graveyard today. Additionally, Narks who claimed Lookout, says that no one visited Ganondorf on a previous night even though Ganondorf should have appeared to the Lookout since truthseeker is a self target, meaning that one of them is not being honest.

It is also worth mentioning that this is an FM. You are meant to read the threads and realize this yourself. If the town only ever lynches when there is 100% conclusive evidence of someone being scum, the town would be disadvantaged since they would have a very hard time killing scum as quickly as scum killed town. Ganondorf does not have a 100% chance of being scum. However, there is more then enough evidence pointing at a fairly high likelihood of him lying about his truthseeker claim to warrant a bandwagon and possible lynch against him.

[FM AscendedOne]

I was either bussed, or there is two of my power role.

Your responses to this post will determine if you are scum.

[FM AscendedOne]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM AscendedOne]

Vigilante is a gigantic faggot

[FM Narks]

Feedback?

[FM Ganondorf]

I was either bussed, or there is two of my power role.

Your responses to this post will determine if you are scum.

This doesn't make any sense tbh.

[FM Ganondorf]

You would know if you were bussed. You'd have gotten the feedback. "You were swapped last night."

[FM Crimson]

so does someone want to fill me in on why we are wasting time on this shit speculation?

this is what happened to FMs ago. people wasted their time on pointless speculation.

lets go with occam razor and assume they are non-existent right now

[FM Narks]

so does someone want to fill me in on why we are wasting time on this shit speculation?

this is what happened to FMs ago. people wasted their time on pointless speculation.

lets go with occam razor and assume they are non-existent right now

It's not like we have anything better to talk about atm.

No new feedback.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Gandondorf claimed Toph the truthseeker, a character which turned up in the graveyard today. Additionally, Narks who claimed Lookout, says that no one visited Ganondorf on a previous night even though Ganondorf should have appeared to the Lookout since truthseeker is a self target, meaning that one of them is not being honest.

It is also worth mentioning that this is an FM. You are meant to read the threads and realize this yourself. If the town only ever lynches when there is 100% conclusive evidence of someone being scum, the town would be disadvantaged since they would have a very hard time killing scum as quickly as scum killed town. Ganondorf does not have a 100% chance of being scum. However, there is more then enough evidence pointing at a fairly high likelihood of him lying about his truthseeker claim to warrant a bandwagon and possible lynch against him.

I have read the threat. It is just interesting to see who posts what when asking to reveal information about scum. If he does flop over scum its good to see who packed on evidence against him and who stood by quiet.

Please don't assume I have not read every post. I assure you that I have.

So in this case, our current best lynch target is someone who may have lied about his role? While I think he should be investigated, I don't think that is worth a lynch at this time. Let's wait and see if anyone else comes up with information as more people log on. If no one else has anything to add then Gandondorf may end up being the best target to lynch.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

I have read the thread*

[FM Crimson]

anyone notice the fact gerick is missing right now?

[FM Narks]

anyone notice the fact gerick is missing right now?

Yes

[FM Narks]

If his arrival time is consistent he should be on in about 2 hours.

[FM FalseTruth]

anyone notice the fact gerick is missing right now?

Didn't he say he was V/LA until Friday?

[FM Goonswarm]

We have concrete proof that Ganon is lying.

1. Ganon claimed Toph-Truthseer
2. Slaol rolled Toph-Truthseer
3. Lookout confirms Ganon did not self visit, which is required for Truthseer

Essentially everything Divemaster said. Crimson, I disagree with you on the no lynch matter. We have a very strong lead here that we need to jump on top of. We have too many players AFK that aren't modkilled yet. We have had 3 Townies killed by Vig shots. This game is spiraling out of control quickly. We need to take whatever info we get and pursue it.

[FM FalseTruth]

I was either bussed, or there is two of my power role.

Your responses to this post will determine if you are scum.

Your grammar needs work.

Only Scum can be bussed - the definition being that Scum actively get one of their own lynched, throwing him/her under the bus.

So if you were bussed you already know who the Scum are, you're on their team.

PR's are often duplicated in large games.

If you are a PR, why out yourself unnecessarily?

[FM Crimson]

Your grammar needs work.

Only Scum can be bussed - the definition being that Scum actively get one of their own lynched, throwing him/her under the bus.

So if you were bussed you already know who the Scum are, you're on their team.

PR's are often duplicated in large games.

If you are a PR, why out yourself unnecessarily?

hes refering to the bus driver role

[FM AscendedOne]

You would know if you were bussed. You'd have gotten the feedback. "You were swapped last night."

I've made a terrible mistake.

[FM Crimson]

so im going to point out a bunch of thigns that stike me odd and i want everyone poinions on it:

lack of combustion mans kill
lack of scum kill
the masses of changes going around
reads on everyone

[FM Crimson]

I've made a terrible mistake.

you might as well claim at this point

[FM AscendedOne]

you might as well claim at this point

That's stupid. I'm protected by many layers of wifom.

[FM AscendedOne]

FM Ganondorf

[FM Severn]

yoyo your boy severen here.

didn't read day 2, but day 3's lynch on ganon seems legit

fm ganondorf

[FM AscendedOne]

yoyo your boy severen here.

didn't read day 2, but day 3's lynch on ganon seems legit

fm ganondorf

FM Severn

[FM Crimson]

Didn't he say he was V/LA until Friday?

where did he say that, i want the quote

[FM Severn]

I am part of the gaang

[FM Severn]

FM Severn

what do you want from me, you garbage aussie

[FM Crimson]

mod can you force severn to get an avi. (rules)

also are replacements announced?

[FM Severn]

replacements aren't announced.

[FM AscendedOne]

what do you want from me, you garbage aussie

An avatar.

[FM AscendedOne]

Call me a garbage aussie to my face, motherfucker

[FM Severn]

i'll take you on. bring it

[FM FalseTruth]

hes refering to the bus driver role

Oh.

[FM Severn]

YapYap:

Can someone ask Narks in the other thread why he didn't reveal his results that prove Ganon was lying until just today

[FM FalseTruth]

where did he say that, i want the quote

Day 2, post 1079: "I won't be around for D3 so it won't be an issue."

Day 3 ends late Thursday night. He'll be back Friday.

[FM FalseTruth]

so im going to point out a bunch of thigns that stike me odd and i want everyone poinions on it:

lack of combustion mans kill
lack of scum kill
the masses of changes going around
reads on everyone

Combustion Man is one of our no-shows.
Scum are toying with us or we have some very good roleblockers.
What changes?
I'm all for reads. Hard to get a good read with so many players and short days, though.

[FM FalseTruth]

YapYap:

Can someone ask Narks in the other thread why he didn't reveal his results that prove Ganon was lying until just today

Why can't you? Are you post restricted as well?

[FM Ganondorf]

Why can't you? Are you post restricted as well?

Roflmao.

[FM Ganondorf]

@ascendedone I suspect you misunderstand how bus driving works can you explain it for us.

[FM AscendedOne]

@ascendedone I suspect you misunderstand how bus driving works can you explain it for us.

I am a power role. I used my action. I got the feedback that my target would have gotten. I assumed I was bussed with my target. I assumed there was no feedback.

Since I'm getting bussed, I don't suggest anyone visiting me.

[FM Spy]

Personally, at this point I'm highly suspicious of Narks, Ganon, and JackOfSpades as scum.

[FM Severn]

Didn't he say he was V/LA until Friday?

I combed for this in day 2, couldn't find it.

fm falsetruth

most solid lead right now.

[FM Spy]

Combustion Man is one of our no-shows.
Scum are toying with us or we have some very good roleblockers.
What changes?
I'm all for reads. Hard to get a good read with so many players and short days, though.

He means charges, I think.

[FM Goonswarm]

Combustion Man is one of our no-shows.
Scum are toying with us or we have some very good roleblockers.
What changes?
I'm all for reads. Hard to get a good read with so many players and short days, though.

The combustion man bit seems very plausible.

Does the Crown Princess' Charge count as the Mafia factional kill?
If it does, that would explain why we haven't seen a mafia kill.

[FM Procyon]

From the mod:

There have been a few questions about this to me, so I'm just going to clarify publicly so everyone is aware: The Fire Nation may only perform one killing action per night. Killing abilities include: mafia factional kill (anyone can do this instead of their normal actions), bruiser's ability, disguising, any killing abilities gained by a thief, Phoenix King's Sabotage (not his prep), and Crown Princess's charge.

[FM divemaster127]

yoyo your boy severen here.

didn't read day 2, but day 3's lynch on ganon seems legit

fm ganondorf

Well, I guess people enjoy proving me wrong...

[FM Severn]

Well, I guess people enjoy proving me wrong...

howd I do that?

[FM Severn]

Didn't he say he was V/LA until Friday?

also, isn't this a huge ass slip?

[FM Crimson]

Day 2, post 1079: "I won't be around for D3 so it won't be an issue."

Day 3 ends late Thursday night. He'll be back Friday.

for seven

[FM Ganondorf]

So I've been curious why dive master has been insisting on voting someone other than me, I agree I look really bad right now, but if I read his intentions right I like the plan, I think he wants to leave me for the vigilante so that we don't get another horrible shot from him.

[FM Crimson]

did narks check gandorf n2 as well?

cus i just noticed narks watched gandorf n1 (from day 2) and said he vistied nobody....

[FM divemaster127]

did narks check gandorf n2 as well?

cus i just noticed narks watched gandorf n1 (from day 2) and said he vistied nobody....

Narks claims RB

[FM Severn]

for seven

where is the v/la thing? what does that mean.

[FM Ganondorf]

Narks claims RB

Yes very convenient of him.

[FM Crimson]

where is the v/la thing? what does that mean.

vacation/limited access. its a term/thing used on MS where players can announce to a mod that they will be one or the other due to RL issues.

false seems to have used that term here


Yes very convenient of him.

yes how very convenient he said you saw nobody visit you d2 also?

[FM divemaster127]

so im going to point out a bunch of thigns that stike me odd and i want everyone poinions on it:

lack of combustion mans kill
lack of scum kill
the masses of changes going around
reads on everyone

I also noticed this. It appears that the mafia have been using their factional kills to single charge two different people every night. Single charging two different people is a high risk-reward strategy, since while the mafia cannot force any of the charges to be triggered if Azula dies, it will cause major issues if Azula lives long enough and too many charges are given out.

If Azula was in much danger of getting killed, I feel that the mafia would start killing previously charged people to ensure at least some of them activated. No mafia kills and no variations from their two single charge strategy makes me believe that the mafia doesn't think Azula is in much danger of getting killed. This worries me very much so, and makes me feel that we do need to start looking at potentially scummy people who haven't taken much heat so far.

[FM monster]

I am part of the...
Well, I wish I would have been part of the Fire Nation instead, because it seems that the "gaang" is slowly eliminating himself!

Like really, two vigilantes? What next, a bad execution from jailor? I thought I would you to "take it easy" and let the investigative roles do their work. Yet those vigilantes... Well, I can blame the second one, at the very least.

[FM monster]

I mean I can't blame the second vigilante, at the very least.

[FM Ganondorf]

I also noticed this. It appears that the mafia have been using their factional kills to single charge two different people every night. Single charging two different people is a high risk-reward strategy, since while the mafia cannot force any of the charges to be triggered if Azula dies, it will cause major issues if Azula lives long enough and too many charges are given out.

If Azula was in much danger of getting killed, I feel that the mafia would start killing previously charged people to ensure at least some of them activated. No mafia kills and no variations from their two single charge strategy makes me believe that the mafia doesn't think Azula is in much danger of getting killed. This worries me very much so, and makes me feel that we do need to start looking at potentially scummy people who haven't taken much heat so far.

True, but that also means azula was active as they weren't afraid of a modkill.

[FM divemaster127]

Ganondorf, who do you claim to have checked last night?

[FM monster]

Just... screw that!

FM Ganondorf

[FM Ganondorf]

Ganondorf, who do you claim to have checked last night?

I tested you and found you to be a member of the gaang.

[FM monster]

I'm not bying anything Ganondorf would say.

[FM divemaster127]

I tested you and found you to be a member of the gaang.

Why did you wait so long to make that claim, especially keeping in mind how today may be your last?

[FM Ganondorf]

Why did you wait so long to make that claim, especially keeping in mind how today may be your last?

I already claimed it see my second post today.

[FM Crimson]

fm monster

i rather see this and ganondorf vigged

[FM Ganondorf]

Sorry it was my third post.

[FM Ganondorf]

I think monster is a bad lynch his soft claim is obv and confirm able.

[FM divemaster127]

I already claimed it see my second post today.

Sorry, missed it.

[FM divemaster127]

Ganondorf Case

I am not going to go that much into reads into Ganondorfs individual posts. This is much more about his claims and claims against him.

Things pointing to Ganondorf's guilt
-Claimed Toph the Truthseeker, an exact role which appeared in the graveyard. The only two explanations in which Ganondorf is not lying is that either that Slaol and Gandondorf were both truthseekers and Ganondorf wrongly assumed he was Toph, or that Slaol isn't Toph and was instead targeted by the tailor.

-Claimed Toph. Very similar to the point above. However, it is worth noting that in a lot of FMs with themes, scum players are told their RP names in addition to their roles in night chat. This could have caused Ganondorf to forget or even not realize that town players don't know their RP name in a scumslip.

-Narks' claims to be lookout and says no one visited Ganondorf night 1, which contradicts Ganondorf's claim that he used his ability that night which was a self-target. Only two possibilities in which Ganondorf isn't lying are that Narks' is lying which seems very unlikely since the only role likely to fake claim lookout is tracker, who would almost certainly give his real N1 action if forced to claim, or Ganondorf was framed. If the mafia successfully framed Ganondorf N1 and then managed to tailor Slaol as Toph N2, its starting to get to the point where you almost have to lynch Ganondorf out of respect for the mafia's godlike night actions.


Points which potentially point to Ganondorf not being guilty
-He claimed truthseeker. Truthseeker is one of the harder roles to fake. Especially since Ganondorf wasn't really in a place where he needed a strong claim, I found it odd that would make such a big claim so early if it was fake.

-Slaol never claimed truthseeker. This is the point which gives me the most hesitation. Slaol did seem like an idiot. However, with Ganondorf claiming Toph directly, a CC was asked for and Slaol never gave one. While it would still have been incredibly good for the mafia to correctly predict Slaol's death and tailor him, this point does make it much more believable.

-Ganondorf accused Narks of lying, not the other way around. While it doesn't prove much, its a very ballsy play from a scum and not something I would have expect from one.



Conclusion
While there are some things which makes it not impossible for Ganondorf to the truthseeker and there are some points which give me hesitation, there is still a lot of evidence pointing at Ganondorf being guilty. Both Narks and the graveyard say that Ganondorf is lying, and both would need to be lying or incorrect for Ganondorf not to be scum, which does seem unlikely.

[FM Goonswarm]

Ganondorf Case

I am not going to go that much into reads into Ganondorfs individual posts. This is much more about his claims and claims against him.

Things pointing to Ganondorf's guilt
-Claimed Toph the Truthseeker, an exact role which appeared in the graveyard. The only two explanations in which Ganondorf is not lying is that either that Slaol and Gandondorf were both truthseekers and Ganondorf wrongly assumed he was Toph, or that Slaol isn't Toph and was instead targeted by the tailor.

-Claimed Toph. Very similar to the point above. However, it is worth noting that in a lot of FMs with themes, scum players are told their RP names in addition to their roles in night chat. This could have caused Ganondorf to forget or even not realize that town players don't know their RP name in a scumslip.

-Narks' claims to be lookout and says no one visited Ganondorf night 1, which contradicts Ganondorf's claim that he used his ability that night which was a self-target. Only two possibilities in which Ganondorf isn't lying are that Narks' is lying which seems very unlikely since the only role likely to fake claim lookout is tracker, who would almost certainly give his real N1 action if forced to claim, or Ganondorf was framed. If the mafia successfully framed Ganondorf N1 and then managed to tailor Slaol as Toph N2, its starting to get to the point where you almost have to lynch Ganondorf out of respect for the mafia's godlike night actions.


Points which potentially point to Ganondorf not being guilty
-He claimed truthseeker. Truthseeker is one of the harder roles to fake. Especially since Ganondorf wasn't really in a place where he needed a strong claim, I found it odd that would make such a big claim so early if it was fake.

-Slaol never claimed truthseeker. This is the point which gives me the most hesitation. Slaol did seem like an idiot. However, with Ganondorf claiming Toph directly, a CC was asked for and Slaol never gave one. While it would still have been incredibly good for the mafia to correctly predict Slaol's death and tailor him, this point does make it much more believable.

-Ganondorf accused Narks of lying, not the other way around. While it doesn't prove much, its a very ballsy play from a scum and not something I would have expect from one.



Conclusion
While there are some things which makes it not impossible for Ganondorf to the truthseeker and there are some points which give me hesitation, there is still a lot of evidence pointing at Ganondorf being guilty. Both Narks and the graveyard say that Ganondorf is lying, and both would need to be lying or incorrect for Ganondorf not to be scum, which does seem unlikely.

Perhaps Slaol didn't CC to prevent the Mafia targeting him and making the Avatar vulnerable?

[FM Spy]

For what it's worth, Ganondorf's N1 feedback was that Zack was telling the truth about being in the Gaang.

[FM Spy]

This doesn't help us too much overall, since Zack is pretty much a no-show, but it should be considered.

[FM Spy]

Or, I was thinking of someone else. Zack is a useful feedback.

Though if Ganon is scum, I'd be unsure Zack is clean. Then again, that gets into extreme WIFOM; it'd be easy for a scum truthseer claimant to prove himself on the "I am part of the Gaang" line simply by picking the name of someone NOT in the Mafia. He's got a 21 of 24 chance of being right and those odds are very good.

[FM Ozymandias]

Woof.

What a terrible night for town. Truly unfortunate.

First of all, I have no feedback from last night to report.

Onto the meat of the discussion.

So there is currently speculation that a Tailor modified either Raiden or Slaol. In the former case, people seem to think that the Tailor modified Raiden's role to disguise the fact that he is scum. This would require that the Tailor correctly guessed the Vigilante would target Raiden, which is certainly possible given that he was very scummy after his "blackmail." Still, I'm inclined to think that this is a bit too lucky, and that Raiden's emphasis on being a TPR was legitimate, and that he was indeed blackmailed. In which case, we need to be on the lookout for further blackmail.

As far as Slaol goes... I'm VERY surprised that he was shot by a Vig. I would be even more surprised if a Tailor chose to make him appear as Toph in order to frame Ganondorf. Like... we're talking godlike powers of guessing and luck for that to work out properly.

And moreover, looking back, I think Slaol actually kind of breadcrumbed being Truthseer (and remember that Slaol didn't even know if he was Toph or not - just that his role was Truthseer).

Here are the posts that make me think Slaol actually was Truthseer:

Post 389 - Day 1: (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29516-Day-One-The-Awakening?p=468017&viewfull=1#post468017)

Requesting that updated Gaang post list

Post 396 - Day 1: (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29516-Day-One-The-Awakening?p=468025&viewfull=1#post468025)

Ozymandias update ur list pls

Post 402 - Day 1: (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29516-Day-One-The-Awakening?p=468031&viewfull=1#post468031)

there's really no reason to not make a gaang post unless you're trying to attract attention to yourself

Post 553 - Day 2 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=468811&viewfull=1#post468811)

Could I get a list of claims that have occurred so far? Also the truth seer list is cool

A lot of people slung mud and FoS my way for making the Toph list. Slaol never did, and only commented that he liked it and wanted it updated. I missed it before, but in retrospect it's obvious - Slaol understood that the list was useful for town, and thus didn't throw FoS at me for making it. He was using it.

It also explains why he voted Ganon (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=468837#post468837) with no explanation on day 2:


FM Ganondorf

People openly said in day chat that the real Truthseer should not counter claim and should wait until he had results to share. Slaol probably saw these posts (or simply was smart enough to not openly CC without any results) and stayed quiet, but still was suspicious of Ganon's claim.

I think it's extremely unlikely that Slaol was tailored.

This makes Ganon a helluva lot more suspicious. Honestly, as Spy pointed out, Truthseer is pretty easy to fake if you're Maf. In fact, that's the big weakness of this system of "I am part of the Gaang" posts that we're using. Maf can just pick someone who isn't on their team, say they checked them, and most likely be right. If they say an evil neutral was part of the Gaang, the evil neutral isn't going to call BS on them. It's a pretty safe fucking strategy, especially knowing that the real Truthseer won't CC early on out of fear of being killed at night. The additional advantage of this strategy is that a Mafia masquerading as Truthseer can clear their own teammates after being "proven" right by correctly guessing a few townies.

As of now, I'm considering Ganon effectively CC'd by Slaol. >.>

As far as Narks goes, I'm still not 100% sure what to do with his claim.

On the one hand, if Ganon is scum, Narks is very likely telling the truth, since he's been pretty adamant about killing Ganon since yesterday.

Until we know for sure, though, I will point out that Narks still said some very sketchy things after his reveal, especially these bits:

Post 1108 - Day 2: (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=469401&viewfull=1#post469401)

I defended myself and claimed, now move on to the next vote.

Pretty hypocritical coming from someone who's been gunning for Ganon ever since his reveal. Struck me as odd when I read it. More importantly, though:

Post 1110 - Day 2: (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29594-Day-2-The-Painted-Lady?p=469403&viewfull=1#post469403)

Your job isn't to believe the claim, it's to trust your town leader and investigatives decision.

Essentially: "I claimed. Now sheep onto me and Gerik." Super scummy thing to say, and makes me less inclined to trust him. Like... seriously. In what fucking world do you say that and think it makes people trust you more? "Stop doubting me, sheeple" Like... really?

Narks, you are not confirmed town. You did not claim some unique role that can be CC'd. You claimed Lookout and then acted like it made you confirmed town, then asked that people sheep onto you and Gerik. Hopefully you can see how that STILL makes you look suspicious as hell.

All that said... Ganon is far scummier at this point, and I'm even less inclined to believe his claim over Narks.

FM Ganondorf

[FM Ozymandias]

Oh, last note before I go to bed:

Can we cut out the "town leader" bullshit that was getting thrown around yesterday? Asking people to sheep onto Gerik simply because he posted 140+ times yesterday is mind blowlingly dumb considering that Gerik claims a TPR but no useful results and is pretty much striking out on his scum reads (Claw and Raiden - and for that matter read Ganon as town leaning). So am I. So are most of us. Hell, even the Vigs are 0 for 3. No one elected a town leader, and I'm very hesitant to sheep onto one simply because he was the loudest. Since the whole scum reading thing is failing miserably, maybe let's lead a lynch based on something a bit more concrete. >.>

[FM Ozymandias]

For realz, last post before I sleep.


Points which potentially point to Ganondorf not being guilty
-He claimed truthseeker. Truthseeker is one of the harder roles to fake.

How is it hard to fake?

Truthseer claimer: "I checked divemaster. He's town."

Everyone else: "Hey divemaster, are you town, or should we all collectively murder the shit out of you?"

Divemaster: *nervous laughter* "Yeah, I'm definitely town, guys. Please don't do that lynchy thing."

Everyone: "Wow! He REALLY IS Truthseer! Amazing!"


However, with Ganondorf claiming Toph directly, a CC was asked for and Slaol never gave one.

Actually, a CC was never asked for. Quite the opposite - MULTIPLE people said in day chat that even if Ganon is lying, the real Truthseer should wait to CC to avoid being targeted by Mafia.

[FM Northstar]

Fm Ganondorf Nothing happened to me last night. I find it unlikely that there are 2 truthseekers.

[FM Rumpel]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Rumpel]

FM Ganondorf

actually I really didn't expect slaol being truthseer

[FM Procyon]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Northstar]

I am part of the gaang

[FM Narks]

Personally, at this point I'm highly suspicious of Narks, Ganon, and JackOfSpades as scum.

So do you think im bussing ganon or one of us is neutral-scum?

[FM Narks]

Ganon seems, oddly calm about his more than likely lynch.

It terrifies me.

[FM Auckmid]

Hello everyone, our Vigis have supreme skill I must say (sarcasm) or we have something else lurking around here. How do Overlord kills appear?

Nothing happened to me this night and no I didnt used the gun, which should be clear since the hosts said it already and we can greatly assume that Raiden was the one giving it to me whysoever (Sad that only citizens can leave Lw´s). This also means no tailor shit, we dont neeed to have a 36 hour discussion about tailors again.

Giving the current situations and Ozys brilliant explanation, there is no reason to not vote Ganondorf anymore, I also thought that Slaol is a investigative PR from his day1 posts, but his shitty behaviour on D2 let me doubt it. FM Ganondorf

[FM Auckmid]

Ganon seems, oddly calm about his more than likely lynch.

It terrifies me.

Well, he could be the Phoenix King, that doesnt change the situation that he needs to die though and he has night immunity.

[FM Auckmid]

Do we keep the "I am part of the Gaang" posts up in the hope that there is a second truthseer?

[FM Procyon]

It can't hurt.

FM Ganondorf

[FM Goonswarm]

Gerik hasn't appeared. I am going to assume the Blackmailer silenced him tonight

[FM Goonswarm]

Last night

[Forum Mafia GM]

when a truthseer "checks" a post are they "visitng" anyone? and if so, who?

I just got home from work

Truthseer can sense truth from the comfort of its own home. Therefore, truthseer will appear as visiting itself to any who may be keeping tabs on its whereabouts.

[Forum Mafia GM]

mod can you force severn to get an avi. (rules)

also are replacements announced?

He has one already.

No.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Personally, at this point I'm highly suspicious of Narks, Ganon, and JackOfSpades as scum.

And why pretell do you suspect me as scum?

[Forum Mafia GM]

How do Overlord kills appear?


They appear like Overlord kills. Death descriptions are different depending on what role did the killing. All descriptions are unique to one killing role. Only vigilante kills appear as vigilante kills, only serial killers cause a kill to appear as a serial killer, etc.

[FM Auckmid]

They appear like Overlord kills. Death descriptions are different depending on what role did the killing. All descriptions are unique to one killing role. Only vigilante kills appear as vigilante kills, only serial killers cause a kill to appear as a serial killer, etc.

Thanks so definetly bad vigi.

[FM Auckmid]

Also gj to Yapyap making the host mad.

[FM Spy]

And why pretell do you suspect me as scum?

Because your strategy so far is essentially "Wait until we have 100% proof to lynch someone." which is a very scum-aligned move.

[FM Ganondorf]

I swear someone accused me of being scummy for realizing that I'm probably not gonna get out of this, but I'd be high not to see it, I look really bad right now, a few points that I'd like to make in my defense.

Players have continued to post TOPH posts, indicating they believe the possibility of multiple truthseers, this is the simplest explanation for my situation.

I have been charged, there is a distinct lack of any other charge claims amongst those who are here. Which begs the question if I haven't been charged who has been.

FM Gerik - Prepped?
FM Illidan - MIA
FM McPwnage - MIA
FM MileS - MIA
FM oops_ur_dead
FM philie
FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha - Survivor
FM vornksr

[FM AscendedOne]

Ganondork makes a noble defense. My vote stays off you because I believe you. I do want to see you lynched though for the info that the flip will provide.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Because your strategy so far is essentially "Wait until we have 100% proof to lynch someone." which is a very scum-aligned move.

Not quiet. I said unless their is ANY Physical proof or beyond resonable doubt. Yesterday lynching someone that may have lied about their role didn't seem like the best move odd wise. Today if no evidence against someone else comes forward then that lynch may be the best bet.

Misquoting someones strategy can be taken scummy as well. Just a heads up.

[FM Narks]

Truthseer can sense truth from the comfort of its own home. Therefore, truthseer will appear as visiting itself to any who may be keeping tabs on its whereabouts.


Not quiet. I said unless their is ANY Physical proof or beyond resonable doubt. Yesterday lynching someone that may have lied about their role didn't seem like the best move odd wise. Today if no evidence against someone else comes forward then that lynch may be the best bet.

Misquoting someones strategy can be taken scummy as well. Just a heads up.


Lol ganon is not a truthseer, or anyone that doesn't have a night action.

I watched him n1, he did not visit himself.

Believe me or the flailing scum.

[FM Narks]

Gerik hasn't appeared. I am going to assume the Blackmailer silenced him tonight

Yayap is obviously softclaiming being BMed.

So one of three scenarios.

1. Gerik is absent and Yayap is bmed. (Most likely)

2. Gerik is BMed and Yayap is faking BMed (Possible)

3. Both are actually BMed (unlikely)

[FM Ganondorf]

Again Narks has failed once, and he will fail again. The simple rule that ANY player who does not take a night action self visits makes it impossible for him to succeed, and once he fails it proves I'm truthseer.

[FM Narks]

Again Narks has failed once, and he will fail again. The simple rule that ANY player who does not take a night action self visits makes it impossible for him to succeed, and once he fails it proves I'm truthseer.

Lol your not truthseer though.

It's simple logic.

Truthseer self visits

Lookout sees who visits a target.

Host has confirmed that lookout sees self visits

I visited you n1

No one other than me visited you n1.

Ergo you visited someone else.

Ergo you are NOT truthseer.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Lol ganon is not a truthseer, or anyone that doesn't have a night action.

I watched him n1, he did not visit himself.

Believe me or the flailing scum.

Proves that he is a liar. In past game town members have been proven liars. Does not prove that he is scum.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Yayap is obviously softclaiming being BMed.

So one of three scenarios.

1. Gerik is absent and Yayap is bmed. (Most likely)

2. Gerik is BMed and Yayap is faking BMed (Possible)

3. Both are actually BMed (unlikely)

4. Both are just AFK due to life?

[FM Narks]

4. Both are just AFK due to life?

Look at FaQ

[FM Narks]

Proves that he is a liar. In past game town members have been proven liars. Does not prove that he is scum.

Outing PRs is scum move.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Look at FaQ

I did look at FAQ. It is still very early on Day 3. Give them time to log on and post something. They could just have been busy for the past 12-14 hours.

[FM Gerik]

Gerik hasn't appeared. I am going to assume the Blackmailer silenced him tonight

That nooblet blackmailer couldn't lock me down if his life depended on it. @Yayap. Unless you are blocked from posting 'at all' You should look into using punctuation and special characters. If you drop the syntax you can intemperate messages while whats being said is literal gibberish.

I honestly had no expectation of living today so I didn't even bother checking. I did however make quite a few plans and will probably be much less active today.

Dress a player at night as either any possible role, or as ???.
The dressed player will appear as your dressing upon their death.
Can a Tailor modify the way in which a target appears to be killed?

I would like to shift gears a little. So far I have been poking everyone stirring them up for information. Now there is plenty and focus is what we should aim at.

FM Ganondorf
I really did townread the hell out of this guy. I did not care for how his participation feel off after the train on him really got rolling yesterday. Townies usually see their impending doom as an opportunity to say things that will soon be viewed as stated 'By a confirmed town'. He did not do that.
Also a ton of things have to line up perfectly for him to be telling the truth. I am not a fan of betting on improbability while an obvious answer is right in front of me.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Oh look, its Gerik. Told you Narks. Does not mean people are BMed, just that they have not had a chance to post in 12-14 hours.
Let's see if Yayap has posted or not as the day goes on before throwing BMed claims around.

[FM Gerik]

Also if things are as they appear we are not in that bad of a situation. We potentially have a confirmed block of town building and a town 2kpn with our vig's. I am kind of comfortable with the games progress in spite of the fact all the dead players are town.

[FM Narks]

Oh look, its Gerik. Told you Narks. Does not mean people are BMed, just that they have not had a chance to post in 12-14 hours.
Let's see if Yayap has posted or not as the day goes on before throwing BMed claims around.

You're really dumb, but that's okay.

[FM Gerik]

Let's just be clear: I never claimed that I am blackmailed.
I 100% consider Yayap Blackmailed.

Hypothetically if a player was charged last night and blackmailed to not post anything in the daychat, would they be mod killed for not meeting the post count requirement?
Also charged.

[FM Gerik]

Just because everyone's focused on the 'should we'..

If Ganon flips Truth Narks is scum.
If Narks flips scum Ganon 'might be' scum

If Ganon flips scum narks 'might be' town
If narks flips town Ganon is scum

By lynching one of these players we confirm the other. I can not imagine a more valuable lynch coming up. Our votes should be on one of these two players at days end.

Also things should get clearer as feedback is claimed (nothing happened to me last night) -Or so I assume by my mail box being empty.

Its still an outstanding idea to dig for other scums and compare reads though.

[FM Gerik]

I should replace 'town' with 'lookout' for narks

[FM TheJackofSpades]

You're really dumb, but that's okay.

... I am not the one who made multiple posts about him being BMed for him to turn up seconds later and post... if you want to talk about being dumb look in a mirror.

[FM Narks]

... I am not the one who made multiple posts about him being BMed for him to turn up seconds later and post... if you want to talk about being dumb look in a mirror.

Those were all SCENARIOS good sir.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

If Ganon flips Truth Narks is scum.
If Narks flips scum Ganon 'might be' scum


What I think? Ganon is not Toph. He did lie about that. However, being caught in a lie does not make you a instant scum. Ganon has seemed more town then Narks for example.
Narks comes off very scummy. Tries to sway opinion and say things are fact with little to no evidence that can be proven without a death.
I would be willing to hammer a vote on Ganon, but if he does not turn up Toph I will be voting to lynch Narks tomorrow.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

but if he does not turn up Toph
Correction, if he turns up town I will be voting to lynch Narks tomorrow.

[FM Spy]

So you were charged last night, Gerik?

[Forum Mafia GM]

The dressed player will appear as your dressing upon their death.[/COLOR]
Can a Tailor modify the way in which a target appears to be killed?

No. Only how their role/RP name appears in the grave.

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Aiiiight, finally caught up. I was so busy today (and received super good RL news that made me giddy) that I couldn't catch up earlier.

I don't care for who we lynch today as long as it's Ganon or Narks (and by the looks of it, Ganon it is). That will resolve the stalemate and help with some other things that I want to talk about after this day (stuff that might be obvious but maybe not so much).

I also have no feedback. Toph post coming now.

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I am the Cabbage Merchant. My role is the Survivor.

[FM Gerik]

So you were charged last night, Gerik?

I received no PM at all from the host. I was prepped N1

[FM Ganondorf]

Would you all be willing to give me a chance to prove myself if I could prove there is no risk.

[FM Ganondorf]

Here's the point I'm making it's clear at this point that Narks is lying but because of the circumstances you suspect me naturally.

Let's assume for a second the currently predominant theory is true. That would make narks a lookout, an easily provable role. He claims that I was not home last night meaning I cannot be a disguising role. I am not a flight risk. I can prove myself in 2 ways a post that i am required to check to prove myself, or simply prove myself when Narks fails to validate his claim tomorrow.

[FM Crimson]

Here's the point I'm making it's clear at this point that Narks is lying but because of the circumstances you suspect me naturally.

Let's assume for a second the currently predominant theory is true. That would make narks a lookout, an easily provable role. He claims that I was not home last night meaning I cannot be a disguising role. I am not a flight risk. I can prove myself in 2 ways a post that i am required to check to prove myself, or simply prove myself when Narks fails to validate his claim tomorrow.

you had 2 days to do it. why give you more time?

[FM Crimson]

we have 2 vigs running around if you do flip thruthseer the vigs can just turn around and vig narks.

look at it in hindsight:

we lynch you:
flip thruthseer: narks is lying and gets vig shot
flips scum: nakrs was tellign the truth

we lynch narks:
flips lookout: he was saying the truht and you get viged
flips scum: still tells us nothign about you

[FM Crimson]

you both essensaly locked into a 1v1

i am also going to say that ozys lack of activty now is starting to make me paranoid and that he could be dropping back into the shadows to hide from everyone and should be looked into

[FM Ganondorf]

you both essensaly locked into a 1v1

i am also going to say that ozys lack of activty now is starting to make me paranoid and that he could be dropping back into the shadows to hide from everyone and should be looked into

We are locked in a 1v1 but what I'm saying is there's no reason this 1v1 can't be held off until tommorrow. Unless of course Narks is a disguised in which case he will get away anyways.

[FM Ganondorf]

Can you really blame me for wanting to get another lead before I day I've already confirmed 2 town, it can't help to let me confirm 2 more and a scum tonight.

[FM Crimson]

Can you really blame me for wanting to get another lead before I day I've already confirmed 2 town, it can't help to let me confirm 2 more and a scum tonight.

yes and no

[FM Ganondorf]

yes and no

Elaborate.

[FM Crimson]

Elaborate.

its double edged.

we have conflicing results right now: yours vs narks.

we can either let both of you sit here and have an endless squabble or we can sort it out right now by lynching one or the other. i want the latter and right now as i have said, the right play is to lynch you.

the entire fact you want to lvie so you cna use your role (asusming its true) is stupid ego bs to me. also why was the lookout roleblocked but not you?

[FM Ganondorf]

its double edged.

we have conflicing results right now: yours vs narks.

we can either let both of you sit here and have an endless squabble or we can sort it out right now by lynching one or the other. i want the latter and right now as i have said, the right play is to lynch you.

the entire fact you want to lvie so you cna use your role (asusming its true) is stupid ego bs to me. also why was the lookout roleblocked but not you?

Who says the lookout was even blocked? That's why I say it's convenient he was blocked his first lead was claimed after all feedback went out, his second claim is nonexistent and I thought I saw a role block soft claim.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

Elaborate.

Personally I would rather vote for Narks as its proabably better to lose a possible Lookout then a Toph.

Narks is the one to call out Ganon as being a liar but he could in fact be lying as well.

Considering players have stated that they were getting a town read off Ganon, I think we should change the lynch to Narks unless new evidence is put forward.

If Narks flips Lookout we can lynch Ganon tomorrow.

Possible Toph > Possible Lookout.

FM Narks

[FM Crimson]

what i really want to do now that i think about it is leave them both alive and let the 2 vigs jsut vig em both

[FM Spy]

And give the defined Mass Murderer two good targets?

[FM Ganondorf]

Lol inb4 they both shoot me and he gets away.

[FM Crimson]

And give the defined Mass Murderer two good targets?

yup. i have no regrets about this idea

[FM Northstar]

wait. Did the blackmailer force yayap to post in the faq chat?

[FM TheJackofSpades]

And give the defined Mass Murderer two good targets?

Agree with this.

As I said above putting down a possible Lookout over a possible Toph is a better move. Why I voted for Narks. Since Narks is the one coming forward with evidence (possibly a lie) vs Ganon.

It's a safer bet with Narks over Ganon at this point. I said I would save my votes until I have a target that is probably scum beyond resonable doubt. In this case, in the Ganon vs Narks issue, Narks is my vote for lynch.

[FM TheJackofSpades]

yup. i have no regrets about this idea

LOL!

[FM Ganondorf]

LOL!

When you look at it he makes a good point the vigs dying wouldn't be a bad thing giving their skills or rather lack of.

[FM Northstar]

My guess is that the vigilante was encouraged by sokka and was given 2 attacks.

[FM Northstar]

Or given adrenaline rather

[FM oops_ur_dead]

Uhh. Has a lynch already happened? I accidentally missed yesterday and it almost looks like I missed today...

[FM TheJackofSpades]

When you look at it he makes a good point the vigs dying wouldn't be a bad thing giving their skills or rather lack of.

Oh, I agree.

[FM oops_ur_dead]

If Ganon is scum and they have a Tailor, wouldn't an extra day allow him to receive a Toph suit?

Only looked through the last few pages but this just sounds like scum trying to avoid an inevitable lynch

[FM oops_ur_dead]

FM Ganondorf

Just realized it's threshold at day end to lynch