Day 2: The Painted Lady

[Forum Mafia GM]

The Gaang arrives at a Fire Nation village populated by sick and starving people. They discover that a nearby Fire Nation ammunitions factory is polluting the river and is causing the village's suffering. The Gaang wants to move on to reach the Firelord as quickly as possible, but Katara convinces them to stay by making Appa appear sick. At night, she assumes the role of "The Painted Lady," a local legend, to heal the sick and steal food from the factory. Aang catches Katara leaving the camp one night, and she confesses to Aang that it was all a ruse, and that she was just about to do one last thing before they leave: destroy the Fire Naton factory. Aang decides to go with her, and together they easily dispose of the factory, spurring Fire Nation soldiers to attack the village. After defeating the soldiers, Katara reveals herself to the villagers, who thank her for her selfless aid. As they prepare to leave the village behind, the real spirit of the Painted Lady appears to Katara and thanks her.

FM Clawtrocity has been slain by a vigilante. He was Chit Sang, a citizen.

- Role List -

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation

- Neutral Evil -
Combustion Man (Mass Murderer)
Hama (Hidden Neutral Evil)

- The Gaang -
Aang (Avatar)
Katara (Doctor)
Sokka (Nurse)
Toph (Truthseer)
Zuko (Vigilante)
Appa (Bus Driver)
Iroh (Grand Lotus)
Hidden Gaang (Citizen)
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang
Hidden Gaang

- Ember Island Informant -
Cabbage Merchant (Hidden Benign)


- Player List -

FM AscendedOne (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14640)
FM Auckmid (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14641)
FM Clawtrocity (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14642)
FM Crimson (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14643)
FM divemaster127 (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14644)
FM FalseTruth (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14645)
FM Ganondorf (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14646)
FM Gerik (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14647)
FM Goonswarm (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14648)
FM Illidan (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14649)
FM McPwnage (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14650)
FM MileS (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14651)
FM monster (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14652)
FM MrSmarter (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14653)
FM Narks (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14654)
FM NorthStar (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14655)
FM oops_ur_dead (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14656)
FM Ozymandias (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14657)
FM philie (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14658)
FM Procyon (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14659)
FM Raiden (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14660)
FM Rumpel (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14661)
FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14662)
FM Severn (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14663)
FM Slaol (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14664)
FM Spy (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14665)
FM TheJackofSpades (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14666)
FM vornksr (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14667)
FM Yayap (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14668)
FM Zack (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/14669)

-Dead Players-
FM Clawtrocity - Citizen - Killed by a vigilante on Night One


15 votes to lynch
Day ends at this time (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=10pm+central+standard+time+january+5%2C+2015).

[FM philie]

No mail in my box today :( I now go sleep.

[FM Spy]

I'm kinda curious what Claw did to deserve to be shot so early. It's not like anyone had a read on him and he wasn't acting THAT scummy.

[FM Ganondorf]

I'm kinda curious what Claw did to deserve to be shot so early. It's not like anyone had a read on him and he wasn't acting THAT scummy.

Maybe not, but I for one thought he was pretty goddamn awful.

I had a rather uneventful night.

[FM Spy]

Being a bad player isn't itself deserving of being shot by a vigilante.

[FM Narks]

I am a member of the Gaang

[FM Ganondorf]

You didn't take off again already did you spy?

[FM Narks]

I would like to apologize for my absence the other day, for my internet went out.

I have nothing about last night that is relevent to share.

[FM Narks]

-FM oops_ur_dead

[FM Yayap]

-FM oops_ur_dead

Care to explain a little more about your vote?

Also, last night I was roleblocked. Inb4 people think I'm mafia, but I assure you I'm not. :(

[FM Narks]

-FM oops_ur_dead

FM oops_ur_dead

We need to start somewhere, and I felt his posts to be very aggresive.

[FM Spy]

Take off? I'm just commenting. Tonight, I'm going to bed.

[FM Rumpel]

I'm kinda curious what Claw did to deserve to be shot so early. It's not like anyone had a read on him and he wasn't acting THAT scummy.

after looking at his profile his posts are shit tier, can't believe I didn't notice him yesterday

only one death, was anyone charged or prepped?

[FM Rumpel]

Those with less than 5 posts: AscendedOne, Illidan. McPwnage, MileS. monster, Narks, Northstar, oops_ur_dead, severn, vornskr

tbh all of those people have terrible posts, not worth pressuring them IMO

so lets start here FM Spy

[FM Crimson]

FM FalseTruth

not moving vote everyon needs to sheep

[FM Yayap]

FM FalseTruth

not moving vote everyon needs to sheep

Would you be able to elaborate on this?

[FM Rumpel]

FM FalseTruth

not moving vote everyon needs to sheep

explain pls

[FM Crimson]

mod any lw?

i have my reasons but it best if we wait for others to give imput first

[FM Ganondorf]

Hello Crimson!

FM Crimson

[FM Yayap]

Ganondorf is voting lynchbait Crimson. +1 scum point for Ganondorf

Pure gut is telling me MrSmarter is likely to be scum.

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

No feedback to report.
Crimson is either bait or has a lead.

I'm gonna sleep now, too tired to post anything else.

[FM Yayap]

@Rumpel, what do you think of FM MrSmarter?

[FM Narks]

Ganondorf is voting lynchbait Crimson. +1 scum point for Ganondorf

Pure gut is telling me MrSmarter is likely to be scum.


Happy? Jeez

I think mcsmarter and ganondorf are both scum.

Ganondorf entered the game with an agenda.
Mcsmarter chainsaw defended him. ^ FM Oops_ur_dead

Wowie these guys don't think alike at all

[FM Zack]

Nothing happened to me last night.

You see. I said it would be a mistake if the Vigilante shot and yet he did. I admit I really didn't have any authority over him, yet I believe it was simple logic that shooting last night was not an intelligent move.

I noticed that the Vigilante ignored Crimson's suggestion *Which I tried to quote but this site says fuck you and won't let me* and shot someone that only philie called out.


This might be a bad idea, but should people volunteer to get visited? It'd give the day town more control over what citizens get promoted and how we can direct their actions


okay, a bit of a change of topic. there were a ton of people that were down for a random lynch, as I am. i personally think the benefits outweigh the costs. someone already said theres not that much point in discussing whether we should or not, as its part of every game. so if you are in favor, get on a train, and try not to start your own.
also, why did that one guy post a code.
(don't have computer access for a while, playing on mobile, please excuse my lack of quotes)

I couldn't seem to figure out how to quote them directly yet you can just check the posts yourselves if you think they aren't legit.

The only two posts that I took note of from Claw.

The first one is relatively ignorant to me. It almost rang scum in my mind initially. Yet after thinking it through I went back to the previous statement, just an ignorant townie. Yet I could potentially see someone getting up over that.

The second post appears to me like a scum trying to direct the town, and this post seriously just stuck out to me yesterday. Some might consider it a town post yet from my POV of lynching yesterday being a scummy move it stuck there. Yet there was something special about his. He wasn't directing at anyone specific. He simply said get on a train, don't make a new one. Yesterday it made me think that he was a scum who saw none of his teammates being voted and wanted to keep it that way while stilling getting a townie lynched.

Some of you might wonder why I made this post. It's merely me contemplating why the Vigilante shot Claw of all people. All in all, I could see it as a decently logical shot. Yet I still wouldn't have made it myself.


Now then onto what I've read today...

The vote from Narks on oops_ur_dead confused me, and I went back to yesterday to look it over, as I hadn't taken notes on him due to the fact I hadn't seen anything of importance.

I found his two accusations weak due to the lack of elaboration. That is simply my opinion however as I am an individual that likes lots of details before making a decision. He has the same ignorance as Claw and simply ran out and claimed Citizen. This does not seem like a Pro-Town move to me. So either he's not that intelligent, or he's scum. Both of which are strong possibilities.

Narks himself on the other hand I found quite interesting as to why he picked out oops_ur_dead rather than another individual.

I don't really have a comment on the vote for Spy by Rumpel. It seemed rather logical to me when I saw it.

Crimson jumping onto FalseTruth with the excuse "I'll tell you later" does not seem like a Pro-Town move to me. Yet unfortunately I have seen this exact thing far too many times by town PRs to think it is the work of a scum.

Ganondorf's vote on Crimson seems weak and badly thought out. I don't see what he could gain at the current moment.

[FM Rumpel]

Ganondorf is voting lynchbait Crimson. +1 scum point for Ganondorf

Pure gut is telling me MrSmarter is likely to be scum.

disagree

[FM Rumpel]

disagree

@yayap

[FM Rumpel]

^ FM Oops_ur_dead

Wowie these guys don't think alike at all

nice spot but I dont think it has any significance

[FM FalseTruth]

FM FalseTruth

not moving vote everyon needs to sheep


mod any lw?

i have my reasons but it best if we wait for others to give imput first


This from the guy that wanted Aang to out himself Day 1.

I'd definitely like to hear your reasons.

[Forum Mafia GM]

mod any lw?

No.

[FM FalseTruth]

Ganondorf is voting lynchbait Crimson. +1 scum point for Ganondorf

Pure gut is telling me MrSmarter is likely to be scum.

His attempt to flashlynch me makes no sense, up until that point I thought he was solidly Town. Now he's not so solidly.

[FM FalseTruth]

But that doesn't mean he's Scum.

[FM FalseTruth]

I think FM MrSmarter is Town. Ganondorf could be Scum. I'm putting Crimson at Null for now.

[FM Ganondorf]

His attempt to flashlynch me makes no sense, up until that point I thought he was solidly Town. Now he's not so solidly.

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe you had a solid town read on him after day 1. Please enlighten me.

[FM FalseTruth]

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe you had a solid town read on him after day 1. Please enlighten me.

He didn't seem like the smartest player, but he appeared to me to be trying to out some Scum.

[FM Ganondorf]

He didn't seem like the smartest player, but he appeared to me to be trying to out some Scum.

Please elaborate.

[FM AscendedOne]

I did not realize why saying "I am part of the Gaang" was so important yesterday. I read the role cards last night.

[FM AscendedOne]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM FalseTruth]

Please elaborate.

The "I am part of the Gaang" idea was a good one, and not something I think Scum would suggest.
His suggestion that Aang should claim blew my mind, but I thought he was reaction testing.
"ozzy is most likey town, false is probably scum with gerik" I also put down as him doing some reaction testing.

Yeah, I have him at null now. Not Town.

[FM Slaol]

No.

[FM Ganondorf]

The "I am part of the Gaang" idea was a good one, and not something I think Scum would suggest.
His suggestion that Aang should claim blew my mind, but I thought he was reaction testing.
"ozzy is most likey town, false is probably scum with gerik" I also put down as him doing some reaction testing.

Yeah, I have him at null now. Not Town.

I see. Do you approve of his read on ozzy and gerik?

[FM Northstar]

Nothing happened to me last night sadly :(.

[FM Northstar]

I am part of the gaang!

[FM Rumpel]

His attempt to flashlynch me makes no sense, up until that point I thought he was solidly Town. Now he's not so solidly.

FalseTruth overreacted to Crimson's vote

>he thinks that crimson is solidly town
>crimson votes him(for reasons unclear, though)
>he thinks that crimson is no longer solidly town
>he immediately makes a post "doesn't mean he's scum" -- this appears to me as if he wants to cover up his initial reaction

I'm gonna go along with this
FM FalseTruth

[FM Rumpel]

I am part of the gaang!

mind to explain why your only post yesterday was

Hello everyone!
-vote Fm yayap
This player makes me sad.

[FM Northstar]

mind to explain why your only post yesterday was

Let's just say that my new girlfriend distracted me. I know that it's not a good excuse but thats the truth. I will try to be more active this day.

[FM Gerik]

I am part of the Gaang.

I was prepped by the Phoenix King last night.

[FM Gerik]

Just a reminder- We have to post the Toph post every day. I just figured it was fitting to throw my night feedback in there with the post.

[FM Gerik]

Who I want to see talk is our beloved GoonSwarm (The fluff master himself)

20:42#9 (Fluff)
20:49#14 (Toh post)
20:58#19 (Instigating Fluff)
10:11#120 (Soft unoriginal fos and organizational Fluff) Hate to see me mod killed? Did he read me as new to the game? Is he just looking out for me or posting words for the record?
10:18#124 (Fluff)
10:40#129 (Unoriginal opinion) Pretty much repeating MrSmarter
12:14#136 (Fluff)
13:52#140 (Anti Lurker) But not calling anyone out.
13:56#141 (Fluff)
15:44#155 (Spam or a code) I really don’t care on D1. D2 I may have tried to crack this. 8 lines break 8 lines. Doesn’t look so random to me. And auto correct would grab more words than that. Especially the spaces are odd. Writing about it makes me want to crack it. But I really don’t care about some seeded nonsense.
19:52#188 (Justify spam/code post)
22:52#196 (Fluff)
13:22#332 (Justifies code post)
14:08#343 (Offering information?) I wonder why he did not just post the info. Why offer it? To find out how interested I am in his code?
14:16#346 (Justification)
14:57#366 (Fluff/Justification)
15:04#372 (Fluff) If its gibberish why talk about it?

Of his posts almost every one of them was an effort to appear town, Fluff, or something defensive. I did not see very much analyzation of others intentions or contributions to the town.

GoonSwarm

[FM monster]

I am part of the Gaang.

I have not received any feedback today. But more importantly, why there was only the vigilante's shot? What happened to Fire Nation's attack?
Also, if someone says "i'm part of the gaang" in their second post instead of first, doesn't that makes then more suspicious?

[FM Gerik]

I am part of the Gaang.

I have not received any feedback today. But more importantly, why there was only the vigilante's shot? What happened to Fire Nation's attack?
Also, if someone says "i'm part of the gaang" in their second post instead of first, doesn't that makes then more suspicious?

Some people post before reading. Im not sure that really qualify s as a scum tell so much as a pointer to how they read/post.
I have been wondering on the fire nation stuff myself. One of them prepped me to kill me which I am actually not too unhappy with.

[FM Gerik]

FM oops_ur_dead

We need to start somewhere, and I felt his posts to be very aggresive.

Now that you are here I would like to ask- What other reads do you have from D1? Especially on those players with some substance in their posts. Is there any specific posts that stuck out to you and why?

[FM FalseTruth]

I see. Do you approve of his read on ozzy and gerik?

I don't know what to think of those two. One minute they seem townish, the next I'm sure they're scum. Gerik sure spent a lot of time asking everyone what they thought about everyone else...

[FM Ganondorf]

I don't know what to think of those two. One minute they seem townish, the next I'm sure they're scum. Gerik sure spent a lot of time asking everyone what they thought about everyone else...

Thanks for your thoughts.

[FM Gerik]

I don't know what to think of those two. One minute they seem townish, the next I'm sure they're scum. Gerik sure spent a lot of time asking everyone what they thought about everyone else...

I never thought I would hear that thats a scum tell. If you would like ask me what I think about anyone.

[FM Gerik]

I don't know what to think of those two. One minute they seem townish, the next I'm sure they're scum. Gerik sure spent a lot of time asking everyone what they thought about everyone else...

Also.. Your post #104 ""Probably" meaning not at all."
It appears you answered for Crim right there. This struck me as odd. Why answer the question for him and not crim answer himself? What made you do this?

[FM FalseTruth]

FalseTruth overreacted to Crimson's vote

>he thinks that crimson is solidly town
>crimson votes him(for reasons unclear, though)
>he thinks that crimson is no longer solidly town
>he immediately makes a post "doesn't mean he's scum" -- this appears to me as if he wants to cover up his initial reaction

I'm gonna go along with this
FM FalseTruth

You're new to Mafia games, aren't you? Reads often change over time. Just because I'm not sure he's town, that's not absolute proof that he's scum, you do know what Null means, don't you?

And I'm a "she", btw, thanks.

[FM FalseTruth]

Just a reminder- We have to post the Toph post every day. I just figured it was fitting to throw my night feedback in there with the post.

We do?

Okay.

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Ganondorf]

I would like more insight as to how others took Crimson day 1, I had him as my top scum suspect, but FalseTruth saw him as pure town.

[FM Gerik]

I would like more insight as to how others took Crimson day 1, I had him as my top scum suspect, but FalseTruth saw him as pure town.

20:39#5 (Organizational) Strong point saying ‘Anyone that doesn’t comply is scum claiming. It suggests he thought up this plan and took into consideration the way others actions in accordance to it would point to their intention. He is probably an intellectual player with every intention to look for tells and scum hunt (Or be seen as much) Although turning the toh role into a sheriff is not breaking the game he effectively presented an idea I am sure everyone thought of as soon as they saw the role.
20:39#6 (Toh post)
09:51#111 (Quotes and speaks to Ozzy) Suggests that he had a town read on Ozzy before his post #108. He is able to recognize experience in me and that I am attempting to control the discussion with a hint that he understand my intention. Expresses a lack of desire to have my nonsense drag on. Probably drew conclusions from Ozzy’s #107, 82, 78, and 67.
16:38#165 (Response to my asking how I am scummy) I love his logic although I do not agree with it. The tone reeks of anger and frustration. I feel like he has an agenda and what I am doing is fucking with what he wants to do D1. This suggests he has some ‘time proven methodical method’ and my nonsense is out of his norm. Or maybe he just can’t stomach the bullshit I was pushing at that time.
17:07#173 (Hostile reaction to Ganondorf and FoS on Zack from Yayap’s comment) Im in line with that Zack FoS at this point. A lot of hostility. Im beginning to see it less as hostility and more as just how he interacts.
17:17#177 (Tpr night action guidance) Kind of out of character. Im not sure that I care for it at all. I do see the logic but the scum counter with zero knowledge of their roles is too much of a risk. Maybe he is fishing to see who would go with such a bid rather than actually footing it. That makes more sense to me.
17:18#179 (Pushing for substance against obvious overplayed debates)
17:25#182 (Players ignore his wishes and he takes note) Well now I know if I ever want an emotional reaction from him I just have to push his ‘control’ button
17:50#186 (References mechanics)
10:29#194 (This is pretty funny)
19:40#299 (Aggressive and assertive) I hope I did not make him throw in the towel with my bullshit. At this point he has crossed from buddying Ozzy to pushing him a bit. I do like the flip though. Its still odd he tried to buddy him off the bat. Maybe it was just a ‘common enemy’ thing with me as that enemy.
19:43#300 (Analyze on play style) I get the feeling he is every bit as invested in finding alignments as looking at how players go about finding them. He has obviously been around long enough to have a strong opinion on how things “Should be done”

Neutral overall. Strong intellectual player and pretty much every one of his posts had some real substance. I cant say too much until I see how he plays D2 to get a real alignment read.

[FM FalseTruth]

Also.. Your post #104 ""Probably" meaning not at all."
It appears you answered for Crim right there. This struck me as odd. Why answer the question for him and not crim answer himself? What made you do this?

He made a statement saying that I was probably your scum partner. I didn't answer for him, I corrected him. " 'Probably' meaning not at all."

[FM FalseTruth]

I have been wondering on the fire nation stuff myself. One of them prepped me to kill me which I am actually not too unhappy with.

Why not?

[FM Crimson]

false is still scum

gandondorf is prob also scum

that is all i have to add atm

[FM Gerik]

Also

"Sense if a player is lying in a select post from the previous day at night."
This is why the Toph thing will have to be a daily post. Including feedback can't hurt in my opinion but I am slightly indifferent on that. Im pretty willing to let some of our more critical players on the subject dictate how to go about this and just sheep it.

Also I will point out that I believe Raiden very intentionally did not make the Toph post yesterday.

[FM FalseTruth]

I never thought I would hear that thats a scum tell. If you would like ask me what I think about anyone.

I'm falling over tired right now, so sometime after I wake up I'll post a reads list. Will you do the same?

[FM Gerik]

Why not?

Because it means I am on the right track. They do not care for what I am doing and I may have nudged one or two of their guys D1. At the very least if I push hard enough it may make them want to sabotage tonight which reduces their Kpn. If all I am able to accomplish this night is reducing the enemy Kpn one time I feel like I contributed something to the town.
Odd question.. And can you answer my previous one?

[FM Crimson]

Because it means I am on the right track. They do not care for what I am doing and I may have nudged one or two of their guys D1. At the very least if I push hard enough it may make them want to sabotage tonight which reduces their Kpn. If all I am able to accomplish this night is reducing the enemy Kpn one time I feel like I contributed something to the town.
Odd question.. And can you answer my previous one?

gerick have you ever considered that false might just be a firescum?

[FM Gerik]

I'm falling over tired right now, so sometime after I wake up I'll post a reads list. Will you do the same?

I could. Theres only soft pegs on something like a 3rd of the players and I would probably change some of them from what I really think to what I want them to think I see them as. But why not. Im very interested to see what your read wall would look like : P

[FM Yayap]

I am part of the Gaang.

I was prepped by the Phoenix King last night.

How do you know you weren't prepped by... Whichever evil neutral role it is that can also prep?


Who I want to see talk is our beloved GoonSwarm (The fluff master himself)

20:42#9 (Fluff)
20:49#14 (Toh post)
20:58#19 (Instigating Fluff)
10:11#120 (Soft unoriginal fos and organizational Fluff) Hate to see me mod killed? Did he read me as new to the game? Is he just looking out for me or posting words for the record?
10:18#124 (Fluff)
10:40#129 (Unoriginal opinion) Pretty much repeating MrSmarter
12:14#136 (Fluff)
13:52#140 (Anti Lurker) But not calling anyone out.
13:56#141 (Fluff)
15:44#155 (Spam or a code) I really don’t care on D1. D2 I may have tried to crack this. 8 lines break 8 lines. Doesn’t look so random to me. And auto correct would grab more words than that. Especially the spaces are odd. Writing about it makes me want to crack it. But I really don’t care about some seeded nonsense.
19:52#188 (Justify spam/code post)
22:52#196 (Fluff)
13:22#332 (Justifies code post)
14:08#343 (Offering information?) I wonder why he did not just post the info. Why offer it? To find out how interested I am in his code?
14:16#346 (Justification)
14:57#366 (Fluff/Justification)
15:04#372 (Fluff) If its gibberish why talk about it?

Of his posts almost every one of them was an effort to appear town, Fluff, or something defensive. I did not see very much analyzation of others intentions or contributions to the town.

GoonSwarm

The part where goonswarm reminded you to get an avi so you wouldn't be mod killed actually is what makes him lean town in my book.


I would like more insight as to how others took Crimson day 1, I had him as my top scum suspect, but FalseTruth saw him as pure town.

Honestly I think there's a slight chance Crimson could be scum but to me he reads as lynchbait. I'm wary of players who are pushing him just because he seems like such low hanging fruit. Scum has literally no benefit to playing as aggressively as Crimson is playing which makes him lean town... And, if you look past the misanthropic presentation, his posts have been more useful than some. I wouldn't say he's a shining beacon of town, but I think it's reasonable for people to read him as more town than not.

[FM FalseTruth]

Because it means I am on the right track. They do not care for what I am doing and I may have nudged one or two of their guys D1. At the very least if I push hard enough it may make them want to sabotage tonight which reduces their Kpn. If all I am able to accomplish this night is reducing the enemy Kpn one time I feel like I contributed something to the town.
Odd question.. And can you answer my previous one?

I don't think it's an odd question, I think I'd be freaked out if Fire was trying to kill me.

Which previous question? I'll be happy to answer it.

[FM Gerik]

gerick have you ever considered that false might just be a firescum?

Scum yes. I really have very little clue how to differentiate non-town from team scum this early. Her end of the day posts trended to fluffy although #388 had a nice tone to it.

Also I apologize for my behavior yesterday. It will not happen again.

[FM Gerik]

Also.. Your post #104 ""Probably" meaning not at all."
It appears you answered for Crim right there. This struck me as odd. Why answer the question for him and not crim answer himself? What made you do this?


And "Arsonist: Someone was found tinkering with your possessions last night." You are 100% right. It could be an arson play. I did not even consider that. I just referenced the possible feedback thread and saw this under the Phoenix King. I suppose I assumed the arson's feedback would not look the same.

[FM philie]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM FalseTruth]

Gerik, maybe it's because I'm falling asleep, but I don't understand post 71.

[FM Yayap]

FalseTruth overreacted to Crimson's vote

>he thinks that crimson is solidly town
>crimson votes him(for reasons unclear, though)
>he thinks that crimson is no longer solidly town
>he immediately makes a post "doesn't mean he's scum" -- this appears to me as if he wants to cover up his initial reaction

I'm gonna go along with this
FM FalseTruth

I don't find this as scummy as you seem to. I think it's definitely reasonable to read someone controversial as town for a variety of reasons, then notice said controversial person gunning for you based on nothing, and then read the person as less town since they aren't even providing reason behind their slander. If you think said controversial player is still town leaning despite being upset with their slander then it's also reasonable to post that they aren't necessarily scum.

[FM philie]

To anyone who left a message after the "I am part of the Gang" you run the risk of sabotaging your own post. I recommend that you post it alone, unless you are scum and need a little wiggle room. I will be working for the next 10hours or so. I might be able to make quick posts and read, but for anything more complicated will have to be for later.

[FM Gerik]

Gerik, maybe it's because I'm falling asleep, but I don't understand post 71.

Get some rest. We can chat about it tomorrow : )

[FM Yayap]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Gerik]

To anyone who left a message after the "I am part of the Gang" you run the risk of sabotaging your own post. I recommend that you post it alone, unless you are scum and need a little wiggle room. I will be working for the next 10hours or so. I might be able to make quick posts and read, but for anything more complicated will have to be for later.

This makes me sad. I was literally thinking about how I could draw some substance out of you just now.

[FM Ganondorf]

Damn you gerik, you made me get out my computer. I hadn't expected anything from you because of your comment today about being too close to the issue, but its clear you intend to be a strong town leader.

I disagree with parts of your assessment, so I'll point out the variations, I'll leave my other thoughts for later after others have had time to contribute.


16:38#165 (Response to my asking how I am scummy) I love his logic although I do not agree with it. The tone reeks of anger and frustration. I feel like he has an agenda and what I am doing is fucking with what he wants to do D1. This suggests he has some ‘time proven methodical method’ and my nonsense is out of his norm. Or maybe he just can’t stomach the bullshit I was pushing at that time.

I think this post is actually quite absurd, he starts an argument with an underlying premise that you haven't done the Toph which breaks down his entire post. The logic he uses is convoluted for such a trivial concept that he had already asserted much effectively when he declared the toph strategy initially.

17:18#179 (Pushing for substance against obvious overplayed debates)

I disagree this post actually calls for less substance, as it merely asks for yes or no responses. While I can see why it might be useful, when compared with the question he asked it actually calls for nothing but a bunch of no responses as there is absolutely no way anybody can justify aang claiming d1 in this setup.

17:50#186 (References mechanics)

Incorrectly I might add.


I'd like a response if possible Gerik.

[FM Crimson]

Scum yes. I really have very little clue how to differentiate non-town from team scum this early. Her end of the day posts trended to fluffy although #388 had a nice tone to it.

Also I apologize for my behavior yesterday. It will not happen again.

its fine, it was just annoiyng to me that we wasted so much time about it

@yap are you going to continue to WK me b/c its starting to bug me. how about you be more helpful and instead of defenidng me from stupid you make a read list on the players in one post

[FM Yayap]

Gerik, maybe it's because I'm falling asleep, but I don't understand post 71.

I think he misquoted and meant to respond to my post about the prep potentially coming from an evil neutral.

[FM Crimson]

gandorf, why is it that you had to be scum in this game too?

[FM Ganondorf]

I am still part of the Gaang.

[FM Narks]

Lol maybe firescum hit an immune person,

Arsonist seems to be popular nowadays.

A word of advice to Aang/White locust, Only visit people that did the "I am a member of the Gaang" post. And filter from that, if you have no good non-scummy targets DO NOT VISIT ANYONE! I would personally hate to see a OverJokeronist.

[FM Crimson]

I am still part of the Gaang.

are you implying that you were not?

[FM Crimson]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Ganondorf]

are you implying that you were not?

One begins to wonder how well Crimson understands English.

[FM Yayap]

its fine, it was just annoiyng to me that we wasted so much time about it

@yap are you going to continue to WK me b/c its starting to bug me. how about you be more helpful and instead of defenidng me from stupid you make a read list on the players in one post

I will always defend low hanging fruit if I think it's angling at a mislynch. I seem to be picking up more town tells than scumtell a so I'm afraid a list at this point would be more helpful to scum than town. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on FalseTruth though.

[FM Ganondorf]

I will always defend low hanging fruit if I think it's angling at a mislynch. I seem to be picking up more town tells than scumtell a so I'm afraid a list at this point would be more helpful to scum than town. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on FalseTruth though.

You keep suggesting that Crimson is "lynchbait" and "low hanging fruit", if you could elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it, and I'm not talking about the concept that is crystal clear. I want to know why you think he qualifies.

[FM Gerik]

Damn you gerik, you made me get out my computer. I hadn't expected anything from you because of your comment today about being too close to the issue, but its clear you intend to be a strong town leader.

I disagree with parts of your assessment, so I'll point out the variations, I'll leave my other thoughts for later after others have had time to contribute.

I'd like a response if possible Gerik.

For starters- I am doing something I have not done before this game. Posting my direct notes. The stuff typed is literally what pops into my head when going through their posts and its written for me. Not for me to convey reads to others. In that light hopefully they will make more sense.

That first line was me reading into the player. I was thinking of reasons for his reaction and tone. My conclusion was that he has an agenda D1 and dosnt care for my agenda.

I stand by my "Pushing for substance against obvious overplayed debates". Some of his posts were directed at avoiding pointless conversation every bit as much as fostering good conversation. This also suggests he in no way sees D1 as useless.

@#186 "Aang can't die while all the other main characters are alive"

"You are Immune to night death until either Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, Appa, or Iroh is killed."

I disagree. His statement was accurate.

[FM Crimson]

One begins to wonder how well Crimson understands English.

im begining to wonder why you even have your vote on me if your not even going to ask me anythign. your just vote parking FMPOV just to avoid dcissuona dn being productive


I will always defend low hanging fruit if I think it's angling at a mislynch. I seem to be picking up more town tells than scumtell a so I'm afraid a list at this point would be more helpful to scum than town. I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on FalseTruth though.

i want to hear from your first. whats your read on false and why? and dont bore me with logic and thoughts, use examples of his post on why show me a case on why you think hes town or scum (if you think hes scum you should just join me and vote him)

[FM Yayap]

You keep suggesting that Crimson is "lynchbait" and "low hanging fruit", if you could elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it, and I'm not talking about the concept that is crystal clear. I want to know why you think he qualifies.

People want to lynch him for seeming scummy based on a surface level analysis. To me (and apparently FalseTruth), he reads leaning townie based on contributions and looking past the aggressive facade.

[FM Gerik]

I think he misquoted and meant to respond to my post about the prep potentially coming from an evil neutral.

The quote was just to point out my question. The statement I made was an answer to your post. They make sense if you do not relate them to etch other.

[FM Crimson]

You keep suggesting that Crimson is "lynchbait" and "low hanging fruit", if you could elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it, and I'm not talking about the concept that is crystal clear. I want to know why you think he qualifies.

you are really starting to draw my ire you knwo that right? im 99% sure i know who you are and that if your really want to prove to me that you are town you will start by talking to me and not ignoring me

[FM Ganondorf]

@#186 "Aang can't die while all the other main characters are alive"

"You are Immune to night death until either Katara, Sokka, Toph, Zuko, Appa, or Iroh is killed."

I disagree. His statement was accurate.

Seemingly accurate, but misleading, I noted very quickly in pregame that



Your Sabotage kills bypass all instances of healing, armor, or invulnerability.

[FM Rumpel]

You're new to Mafia games, aren't you? Reads often change over time. Just because I'm not sure he's town, that's not absolute proof that he's scum, you do know what Null means, don't you?

And I'm a "she", btw, thanks.

that's not my point

saying "no longer solidly town" is completely sufficient, but you immediately added "doesn't mean he's scum"

take this scenario

A voted B
B defensively reads A as not townish
B realized his reaction is scummy and added that "doesn't mean A is scum"

[FM Rumpel]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Ganondorf]

People want to lynch him for seeming scummy based on a surface level analysis. To me (and apparently FalseTruth), he reads leaning townie based on contributions and looking past the aggressive facade.

Interesting, I had him town on a surface level analysis, but after his aggression towards me, I reread him and changed my mind.

[FM Crimson]

appa is bus driver...

i can see your shitty potshots at me and if you continue your going to get the full outlash of me so i would be point blank and kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TALK TO ME NOW IF YOU HAVE SOEMTHING

[FM Ganondorf]

you are really starting to draw my ire you knwo that right? im 99% sure i know who you are and that if your really want to prove to me that you are town you will start by talking to me and not ignoring me

I'm sorry I didn't realize you wanted to defend yourself. You did after all acknowledge my vote with a lack of care or concern.

[FM Gerik]

Seemingly accurate, but misleading, I noted very quickly in pregame that

I see your point. Im going to assume that you read that "Avatar" plan he proposed as a legit plan. I personally read it as a fish. I suppose thats the difference in how we see the post. One side is him backing up a scummy idea, the other is him making an anti-town plan seem slightly less anti town to draw out scum who would support it.

[FM Crimson]

I'm sorry I didn't realize you wanted to defend yourself. You did after all acknowledge my vote with a lack of care or concern.

i want to to talk to me if you have a god damn problem abotu me.

[FM philie]

I feel that Avatar idea was more a stupid one than scummy.

[FM Gerik]

appa is bus driver...

i can see your shitty potshots at me and if you continue your going to get the full outlash of me so i would be point blank and kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP AND TALK TO ME NOW IF YOU HAVE SOEMTHING

I find the best way to get a read out of someone is to do what they ask of me first. It makes them feel indebted and more obliged to do what you want.

[FM Rumpel]

ok I'm deciding not to be lazy and will do a complete read on someone's post

I'll be starting with falsetruth

[FM Yayap]

im begining to wonder why you even have your vote on me if your not even going to ask me anythign. your just vote parking FMPOV just to avoid dcissuona dn being productive



i want to hear from your first. whats your read on false and why? and dont bore me with logic and thoughts, use examples of his post on why show me a case on why you think hes town or scum (if you think hes scum you should just join me and vote him)

I'm null on FalseTruth. I already pointed out why her posts about you aren't unreasonable as town, but other than that, I've picked up on no indication of alignment. Sorry if you want quotes, but I'm on my phone so that's not happening right now.

[FM Crimson]

gandorf:

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29516-Day-One-The-Awakening?p=467751#post467751

read the dam n post and stop misreping my idea. i also gave clear incetive to have appa bus drive anng as a protecion

[FM Ganondorf]

I see your point. Im going to assume that you read that "Avatar" plan he proposed as a legit plan. I personally read it as a fish. I suppose thats the difference in how we see the post. One side is him backing up a scummy idea, the other is him making an anti-town plan seem slightly less anti town to draw out scum who would support it.

No, I assumed at the time it was an attempt to spark conversation, that's why I responded, only to get slapped in the face by his follow up posts.

[FM Crimson]

I find the best way to get a read out of someone is to do what they ask of me first. It makes them feel indebted and more obliged to do what you want.

i dont when they are misreping my plan and idea

[FM Gerik]

I feel that Avatar idea was more a stupid one than scummy.

Are you just saying that because I literally drew out it being scum bait 2 posts earlier? That timing is really bad. It screams "I want town points without contributing". The lack of substance from you is much less of a surprise and getting to just be whats expected though..

[FM Crimson]

No, I assumed at the time it was an attempt to spark conversation, that's why I responded, only to get slapped in the face by his follow up posts.

you got like one more post to either be direct and interact with me or im going full agro at you.

READ THE GOD DAMN POST I LINKED TO YOU AND STOP MISREPPING ME ABOUT IT. I KNEW FULL FUCKING WELL APPA WAS ALSO A BUS DRIVER AND CLEARLY STATED THAT WE COULD USE HIM AS WELL

[FM philie]

Yet it was a silly idea.

[FM Yayap]

Interesting, I had him town on a surface level analysis, but after his aggression towards me, I reread him and changed my mind.

Yeah so explain to me why scum would act aggressively to get people to reread them as scum when they were first passing as town. I think aggression can be anti-town, but due to it increasing hits on people's scumdar, I find it to be more of a towntell than anything else.

Please explain to me why aggression is scummy.

[FM Ganondorf]

you got like one more post to either be direct and interact with me or im going full agro at you.

READ THE GOD DAMN POST I LINKED TO YOU AND STOP MISREPPING ME ABOUT IT. I KNEW FULL FUCKING WELL APPA WAS ALSO A BUS DRIVER AND CLEARLY STATED THAT WE COULD USE HIM AS WELL

@Gerik You were spot on with that aggressive personality.

[FM Crimson]

I'm null on FalseTruth. I already pointed out why her posts about you aren't unreasonable as town, but other than that, I've picked up on no indication of alignment. Sorry if you want quotes, but I'm on my phone so that's not happening right now.

-.-

how about this, when you get a chance to go read his post again, tell me how much of them have "real substance" and how much of them are just "words, words words"

[FM Crimson]

@Gerik You were spot on with that aggressive personality.

FM Ganondorf

your either anng himself or just a scumfuck who should know better the to piss me off.

pick you poision

you shitty overreaction screams PR or scum trying to grab easy town cred and now your sitty potshots only renforced my scum read

[FM Gerik]

i dont when they are misreping my plan and idea


No, I assumed at the time it was an attempt to spark conversation, that's why I responded, only to get slapped in the face by his follow up posts.

He literally said in this post that your move was to spark conversation. You are getting tunnel vision. Take a step back. You are getting yourself blindly worked up at this point.

[FM philie]

Someone's a little mad. Just don't let it blind you <3

[FM Yayap]

-.-

how about this, when you get a chance to go read his post again, tell me how much of them have "real substance" and how much of them are just "words, words words"

Words words words doesn't help me with town or scumtells though. I read through her posts and found everything to be null to me. This early in the game, I'm not sure if it's a play style thing or that shes scum trying to hide beind words words words.

[FM Crimson]

i dont care what he thinks anoymre gerick, he decied to push my buttons.

you really need to knwo that when im in full ire im full out anti-town so if you know whats good you wont eeven defend his stance right now.

[FM Gerik]

-.-

how about this, when you get a chance to go read his post again, tell me how much of them have "real substance" and how much of them are just "words, words words"

7 or 8 out of 17 by my count.

[FM Crimson]

Someone's a little mad. Just don't let it blind you <3

....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`•¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.•´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...

[FM Crimson]

7 or 8 out of 17 by my count.

that are word or actual contents?

[FM Ganondorf]

Anyways, I do actually have a question for you Crimson now that I think about it. Explain why you opened today with a desire to sheep FalseTruth, if anything I took that as a soft for investigative with a lead, and yet were willing to give that train up before it even began. I'll admit I was pushing your buttons. I saw them just as clearly as Gerik did.

[FM Yayap]

Is anyone else having a problem with the avatars? I'm seeing Philie and my posts with no avatar, and Crimson's posts with my avatar? Rumpel's posts show up with Philie's avatar. It's really disorienting.

[FM Gerik]

i dont care what he thinks anoymre gerick, he decied to push my buttons.

you really need to knwo that when im in full ire im full out anti-town so if you know whats good you wont eeven defend his stance right now.

His 114 post was hitting your button to be sure. I was pointing out that you read his statement as misrepresenting your move while I read it as agreeing with it being bait.

With that said I will drop the subject because this tangent has no value.

[FM philie]

Must be you yap. Mine is fine.

[FM Gerik]

that are word or actual contents?

Content. I got some sort of value out of the other 10 or so posts. 7 or 8 I labeled as useless fluff when I was digging through her posts. Most of that fluff was the second half and most of her participation was in the first half.

[FM Crimson]

Anyways, I do actually have a question for you Crimson now that I think about it. Explain why you opened today with a desire to sheep FalseTruth, if anything I took that as a soft for investigative with a lead, and yet were willing to give that train up before it even began. I'll admit I was pushing your buttons. I saw them just as clearly as Gerik did.

Your play is an exact replica of a game i played not too long ago where a scum vote parked on town!me and then did stuff like this by asking questions yet kept the vote on.

so untill i think otherwise i have no desire to answer such an ovious role!fish question

[FM Crimson]

Content. I got some sort of value out of the other 10 or so posts. 7 or 8 I labeled as useless fluff when I was digging through her posts. Most of that fluff was the second half and most of her participation was in the first half.

post number and days?

i dont mind finding them myself

[FM Gerik]

Does Ozai (Phoenix King)'s action make up the red factions Kpn or do they have a separate kpn in conjunction with this ability?

[FM Gerik]

post number and days?

i dont mind finding them myself

Why don't I just post my notes..

07:02#58 (Toh post)
07:11#60 (Early vote/fos) Maybe he was trying to get away from fluff and jump right to it. I like how quickly he took things to that level.
07:13#61 (Fluff) Kind of a dodge..
07:41#66 (Push on Ganondorf and Rumpel) Why didn’t he jump on my last question if he is pushing so hard for substantial conversation?
07:55#70 (Response to my buddy poke) I guess he doesn’t mind buddying
08:18#79 (Experience poke)
09:07#93 (Organizational push)I guess he doesn’t care to take notes while I stir the pot. Says he sees no value in that nonsense I am pulling.
09:36#104 (Answering for crim?) This is odd. Why is he answering a question for crim? Some kind of blatant coaching or maybe just reading sarcasm in his post?
11:38#231 (States a town will probably get lynched and then says he is willing to lynch. Odd. At least its in the right order. It would be a little bit more scummy to see the statements flipped. A few posts later he votes no lynch so maybe I am misreading this.
11:58#233 (Lynch Logic) Pretty sound stuff. Still neutral when its undirected.
12:35#239 (Fluff)
13:03#243 (Fluff) So he reads everything in every post..
16:49#288 (Fluff)
20:55#303 (Vote no lynch)
14:59#368 (Code fluff)
16:41#388 (Suspicion) No trust for anyone? I like this guy
19:01#405 (Fluff) ‘Give me town points’

This is before I knew he was a she.

[FM Ganondorf]

He literally said in this post that your move was to spark conversation. You are getting tunnel vision. Take a step back. You are getting yourself blindly worked up at this point.


Someone's a little mad. Just don't let it blind you <3

The timing on these posts, it would make me so happy if you didn't read Gerik's before posting this.

[FM philie]

As posted in the FAQ last. Can prep whatever, but activating counts as a killing move.

[FM Gerik]

Also I keep track of time stamps to keep a grip on when the player should be expected to post. This is why I did not push harder when she said she was tired and I asked about #104. In a word- this is where my 7-8/17 number came from as well as my 'Fluff in the second half, participation in the first'

[FM philie]

I didn't read his post before I posted mine. Slow phone.

[FM Gerik]

The timing on these posts, it would make me so happy if you didn't read Gerik's before posting this.

I also noted this. His post prior to this also seems to mirror my post (Just 1 post prior to his posting). What really tickled me is how fitting his avatar is when looking at his play style.

[FM Crimson]

Vig shoot me tonight

[FM Rumpel]

Sounds like some noobscum trying too hard to look Town. FM Ganondorf[/vote]
reasonable

I did not get a sweater for Christmas. There's not much more to say this early on other than that I hate the name I was given. Too WIFOM-y.
fluff, openly states his intention which is good/

FM Ganondorf's post #3, sounds like noobscum to me, I'm really hating FM Rumpel's post #62 calling for a random lynch.
very reasonable too

Early heavy participation can mean a lot of things. So can early lurking. Neither are alignment-indicative.
decent point

Gerik, Ozy might be anal scum, but still, it wouldn't hurt to make the post. Don't do it for him, do it for Town.
another decent point

I have to disagree with this, Scum LOVE d1 lynches. I don't know the exact numbers, but in my experience scum's been d1 lynched 9% and town 91%. In some of the games I played, scum didn't even have to vote for what turned out to be a town mislynch.

If the mods are serious about replacing/modkilling the <5 posters and anyone without an avatar, then I think a d1 lynch might be too risky.

-vote unvote
- for now, at least.

Thoughts?

The contradiction is that some believe that scum are reluctant to vote on d1. That suggests that anyone wanting a No Lynch is scum. That is an inaccurate supposition. Scum love the d1 vote because it's practically certain that they'll get a townie lynched.

My thoughts are that those against a No Lynch are the scum.

I just want to see what everyone else thinks.
strong analysis, I 100% agree with this

Well, yeah, if someone suddenly goes all obvscum, he gets lynched. I don't see that happening between now and tomorrow night though.
yeah

One of the mods.

lol
fluff/not important

I don't have any idea. Right now my paranoid side is saying that everyone is at best null leaning scum.

Normally I go through the thread repeatedly and pick everything apart, but I haven't had the time with this being a holiday week.
she states "I don't have any idea". this IMO shows that he is NOT someone trying to look pro-town


His attempt to flashlynch me makes no sense, up until that point I thought he was solidly Town. Now he's not so solidly.

But that doesn't mean he's Scum.
first couple of posts that doesn't come off to me as a town-play, for reasons I have states before


I think FM MrSmarter is Town. Ganondorf could be Scum. I'm putting Crimson at Null for now.
doesn't mean anything without justification

The "I am part of the Gaang" idea was a good one, and not something I think Scum would suggest.
Her suggestion that Aang should claim blew my mind, but I thought he was reaction testing.
"ozzy is most likey town, false is probably scum with gerik" I also put down as him doing some reaction testing.

Yeah, I have him at null now. Not Town.

He didn't seem like the smartest player, but he appeared to me to be trying to out some Scum.
ok here's some justification, mostly I agree with what he's saying

I don't know what to think of those two. One minute they seem townish, the next I'm sure they're scum. Gerik sure spent a lot of time asking everyone what they thought about everyone else...
comes off scummy to me, "spent a long of time asking everyone", when viewed alone, doesn't give any indication whatsoever

You're new to Mafia games, aren't you? Reads often change over time. Just because I'm not sure he's town, that's not absolute proof that he's scum, you do know what Null means, don't you?

And I'm a "she", btw, thanks.
the reaction which I'm expecting, I'm null about this one


CONCLUSION:
Day 1 she gave some good points, and some decent ones, considerable amount of fluff
Day 2 was questionable, some of her points doesn't make sense, few fluff

DESPITE ALL THE FLUFFS AND QUESTIONABLE POSTS I AM FAIRLY CERTAIN SHE IS TOWN

unless crimson gives a substantial lead I strongly discourage wasting time on FalseTruth

[FM Ganondorf]

Deja Vu

[FM vornksr]

my alignment is town

[FM Gerik]

Anyone have any feelings on GoonSwarm? He probably won't be around for another 6 hours or so but damn that was a lot of fluff.

[FM vornksr]

I am part of the Gaang.

Also, if someone says "i'm part of the gaang" in their second post instead of first, doesn't that makes then more suspicious?

why, that's a nulltell imo


nothing happened to me last night. i do agree that crimson is lynchbait. falsetruth i'd need to reread his posts

[FM Crimson]

Anyone have any feelings on GoonSwarm? He probably won't be around for another 6 hours or so but damn that was a lot of fluff.

i would need to iso the person, if its the player who i think it is the player is town by meta

[FM Ganondorf]

@Crimson, did you give an explanation for why you tunneled Gerik with Ozzy yesterday. I would like one if you haven't.

[FM Gerik]

i would need to iso the person, if its the player who i think it is the player is town by meta


20:42#9 Hello everyone. Forgive me for my shitty Avatar, nigga be lazy as fuq

20:49#14 I am part of the Gaang.

20:58#19 Anyways, did everyone have a good Christmas or Kwanzaa or Hanukkah? I got pants and shtuff like that.

10:11#120 Woke up, saw suspicion on people who detracted from "I am part of the Gaang" post. Didn't care too much.
Also saw suspicion on the one with the list because "It's an easy way for scum to look town."
Gerik and Crimson, you two need to get Avatars. I would hate to see an active player get modkilled/replaced over something so insignificant. I am sure you will get a warning about it before the action. But still.
Speaking of lists, Who all hasn't posted yet? I am too lazy to make a list xD

10:18#124 Ahh I see. Then I am sure the host will be understanding. Be back in a bit.

10:40#129 This. Guiding PR in general is a bad idea. Gives scum additional information to work off of. Just let the PR do their thing and we will do our best at scumhunting.

12:14#136 Yeah that makes sense. I figured it would work in that way.

13:52#140 Ganondorf quick randomed McSmarter. Just saying. I am also annoyed at those who posted a "hi everyone" post and left.

13:56#141 Im gonna be afk for the next few hours. I wanna see those who already posted come back and talk more. I'll have popcorn.

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19:52#188 Damn pockets

22:52#196 Ahh the good old days

13:22#332 If you are talking about my bunch of gibberish. That wasn't a code. My phone got activated in my pocket and typed that out.

14:08#343 I can explain the timing if you like

14:16#346 Last night I was working a gala at a yacht club and I saw that post and looked through the game and saw only my post as having a potential for a code. However the internet connection was bad in the kitchen so I never got a chance to respond immediately. I woke up about 3 hours ago and had other things to attend to before coming on. Most of the talk this game has been focused towards a couple of subjects I have no real opinion on either way. D1 lynching in my opinion isn't really worth because for all we know, we could lynch a very strong town role or a mafia role and the odds just aren't in our favor. As for the list and the literal-ness of the "I am part of the Gaang" situation. People will nitpick. There are plenty of people to choose from for the truthseeker. Let other role investigate the non-conformers. Its not a big deal to me.

14:57#366 Honestly, if he makes a code out of that mess and its logical. I'll be impressed. That being said, It's not a code I would make. I have a specific code I like to use that is nowhere near that mess.

15:04#372 If you look closer, there is dry Xcyt (excite) and others probably.


His D1 posts.

[FM Crimson]

maky i dont think its the person i think it is.

@gandorf, you are obvoiusly not reading b/c it was answered yesterDay.

[FM Ganondorf]

maky i dont think its the person i think it is.

@gandorf, you are obvoiusly not reading b/c it was answered yesterDay.

Help a brother out then, link/repeat it for me.

[FM Crimson]

Help a brother out then, link/repeat it for me.

nope. you can do your own reaserch scumbutt

[FM Gerik]

Help a brother out then, link/repeat it for me.


20:39#5 Time to break the game..
Everyone should post "I am part of the Gaang" in a separate post and let toph pick one of them. That way if anyone tries to object to it or does not comply is probably scum claiming.
We already know that a post can't be framed or anything so if everyone does a post just stating that Toph can easily confirm people who are lying if its checked.

20:39#6 I am part of the Gaang

09:51#111 This only reinforces my town read on you.
By the way gerik is speaking she is obviously not a newbie. You have also pointed out that he has yet to do the activity and is trying to control the discussion in a manner that fits their narrative.
If gerik think some claim is going to save them they better claim now cuz im not into buying the "i'm ok with votes on me" shit or the "i'm hinting soft claims"
You either speak up and talk or you shut up and eat rope

16:38#165 Here let me break it down to simplicity:
You have yet to do "i am part of Gaang"
so it goes to 2 base things:
Your town or you're not
break it down further to the 3 simple premise:
Citizen
PR
Scum
Each case as well:
Citizen: your wasting our time by gamibiting and not just doing a simple thing that would move everything along. Also if you are the player I think you are you are wasting time and you need to shut the fuck up and quit gambiting and wasting our fucking time and just do the fuckign activity. Last game in batman shadow decided to fake claim BP and truth be told, that made more of a mess then if he were to of claimed citizen. I know gambits and if you are pulling one i will tell you now its fuckign stupid and a wast of not only mine and yours, but everyone elses.
PR: if you get to l-1 and claim you are playing suboptimally IMO. It would be easier for you to do the activity and just fade in background and continue to do everything.
Scum: self explanatory pretty much
So pick your poison.

17:07#173 He should claim in his next post, I just looked back at his post and something else struck me about him.
@ozy: fuck off, if i wanted to com hunt i would be more stuble. I find the use of annons and not allowing com claims to be dumb.
Annons alone i don't mind due to the fact it allows unique roles and setups (like this) but not allowing us to com claim or hunt openly is annoying. If i truly wanted to com hunt i would be more stuble. I really don't care about hiding who i am either. So really you need to shut up. Your lucky im being more reserved at the moment and not going full blown anti-town mode like i normally do

17:17#177 Sooooo random idea:

Aang claims day 1
citizen claims day 1
aang targets citizen and appa bus drives both players
aang gets new power
???
profit!
yay or nay?

17:18#179 Also i want a direct yay or nay no "its bad b/c directing PR" shit or some stupid elaboration on why its good or bad
Just direct yes or no on the idea. The last thing we need right now is another debate about directing PRs

17:25#182 I love how i say "put yay or nay and nothing else" and the next 2 post get followed by answering it and ignoring what i asked

17:50#186 Someones not reading setup.....
Aang can't die while all the other main characters are alive
@ganondorf: im fine with that

10:29#194 I now have avatar.
All should change avatars to what i have and troll the mod

19:40#299
Cus im lazy and not going to hunt out the posts for later.
@gerick: the entire reason i shut you donw was exaclty b/c of your respons and how you play. The moement i say the word "ego" i stopped.
Point blank: fuck off about ego, i will rip you a new one if you are going to use ego to play. That is the one thing i fucking loathe about players when they think their play is some sort of amazing shit. How about you do something useful and tell us what you have found by telling us what you have found out/accpomished by wasting 6 pages.
@yap your chainsaw is noted
@ozzy: your starting to grate me. How about you make a read list with colors
@whoever the vig is, feel free to vig zac or ganondorf or me

19:43#300 im also going to be point blank to players in general: if you think some gambit is some amazing shit and that your entire reason is b/c ego and that you think its some awesome shit, its not.
Gambits are meant to be reactions and should not stall out a day causing a huge banter/fight about things. If you have a reason for a gambit go ahead and do it. But dont do it b/c you have some ego idea thinking that its going to get you townpoints or some stupid shit. Its a waste of not only my time but everyone time that you decide to lie about something.

[FM Rumpel]

Anyone have any feelings on GoonSwarm? He probably won't be around for another 6 hours or so but damn that was a lot of fluff.
top scum up there with list guy and ganondorf

I'd want to wait till he shows up to give my reads but since you pointed that out..

I'll wait till most people post before starting a train

[FM Ganondorf]

Still not finding it, the closest I can find is #299 and honestly I'm not feeling it.

[FM Rumpel]

also im 99% sure crimson gerik and zack is town just to add

[FM Ganondorf]

also im 99% sure crimson gerik and zack is town just to add

Honestly I have a similar town list, except I replace crimson with ozzy, probably for the same reasons, crimson was on it at one point.

[FM Gerik]

top scum up there with list guy and ganondorf

I'd want to wait till he shows up to give my reads but since you pointed that out..

I'll wait till most people post before starting a train

Is there anyone you would not be willing to lynch? D1 you stated that "I AM in favor of random lynching" (15:38#154). You were true to your word and that has carried into D2. It makes me curious with the obvious punch line 'Why do you want to lynch so hard and so seemingly without discrimination as to who'

[FM Gerik]

Is there anyone you would not be willing to lynch? D1 you stated that "I AM in favor of random lynching" (15:38#154). You were true to your word and that has carried into D2. It makes me curious with the obvious punch line 'Why do you want to lynch so hard and so seemingly without discrimination as to who'

I would post this right after you give a town read. Someday I will learn to read that 'new posts have been made' thing..

[FM Gerik]

Just because were giving general reads.. This was what I came up with after digging through D1. (I will grudgingly admit I had Claw in the red as well with some pointed questions I intended on asking him)

Leaning scum:
Goonswarm
Raiden
Spy
Yayap

Leaning town:
Ozymandias
Ganondorf
FalseTruth

My focus right now is on Goon and Yayap although theres a good bit of slots I could add to one category or the other. Inb4 I have to explain myself for putting FalseTruth on a town list.

[FM Rumpel]

I would post this right after you give a town read. Someday I will learn to read that 'new posts have been made' thing..

because half of us are afk or near afk

if we wait till day 99999 to lynch we will have no info

lynching is the best way to get info because people cant come vote and leave without getting suspected

what I realise is that the active players are too divided on their scum list to train someone, so I'd rather buddy with those I'm sure are town, else we wont do anything

[FM Rumpel]

Just because were giving general reads.. This was what I came up with after digging through D1. (I will grudgingly admit I had Claw in the red as well with some pointed questions I intended on asking him)

Leaning scum:
Goonswarm
Raiden
Spy
Yayap

Leaning town:
Ozymandias
Ganondorf
FalseTruth

My focus right now is on Goon and Yayap although theres a good bit of slots I could add to one category or the other. Inb4 I have to explain myself for putting FalseTruth on a town list.

really disagree, list guy and ganon are very scummy on my list

yayap may be neutral or neutral evil

[FM Gerik]

I believe most players wouldn't be all too hesitant to jump on Spy although I do not believe we would gain any interactions of value from that lynch (And its lynchbait). I think 1 other person has thrown Raiden's name into the ring but once again- We gain very little in terms of interactions.

The problem with finding someone everyone will agree on is that its usually a low poster with no substance. Hitting that high active poster is the gold mine I want but I doubt will happen. I do agree that without lynches we miss out on info but as I said yesterday- Im really heavy on the side of hard trains that do not end in a lynch. If we get a few hard trains every day we get that vote analysis as well as interactions and the scum KPN can give us the role flips that give those things their true value. And you can do 2,3,4 of them a day instead of the 1 lynch.

But if you really see someone as scum throw their name out and I will dig into them to create some conversation. Regardless of my read on them. I pretty much have notes on every player so its nothing for me to throw those out for something to talk about. I feel like the forward motion we caught a few hours ago has fallen into this lull that I do not care for.

[FM Crimson]

i like how ganondor still never follows up on the misrep of what i said about the aang idea and that hes still trying to potshot me.

[FM Gerik]

really disagree, list guy and ganon are very scummy on my list

yayap may be neutral or neutral evil

If those two are scum they are very experienced scum. I would be interested in hearing why on either of them.

[FM Gerik]

And before I forget-

"@Gerik, in light of what Ozy said about scummy players not necessarily being scum, and someone else posted that anti town behavior doesn't necessarily mean a person is not town: what criteria do you look at to help distinguish actual scum from town lynchbait? "
@Yayap I am not going to answer this.

[FM Crimson]

If those two are scum they are very experienced scum. I would be interested in hearing why on either of them.

ganondorf isnt that experience hes jsut has an obvious scum game, gandorf is delibertly potshoting me to avoid talking about anyone else. its an exact replical of greenland in the other FM where the player jsut selectively attacks/discred one player and did nothign else

[FM Gerik]

ganondorf isnt that experience hes jsut has an obvious scum game, gandorf is delibertly potshoting me to avoid talking about anyone else. its an exact replical of greenland in the other FM where the player jsut selectively attacks/discred one player and did nothign else

Alright. I will take a harder look at Ganondorf. It will take a while though.

[FM Rumpel]

If those two are scum they are very experienced scum. I would be interested in hearing why on either of them.

never said they are experienced, give me an hour to return home, lazy doing on phone

[FM Auckmid]

So, I´m here now too. I got a gun from a Blacksmith btw.

[FM Auckmid]

I am part of the Gaang.

[FM Ganondorf]

Well, I think I'm gonna take off soon so I'm gonna put up my reasoning for flip-flopping my crimson read. First to let you know my first impression.

#5 Break the game

A good tactic, I hadn't thought of it.

#99 Pressures Gerik most likely for his non-standard toph post

Seeing as how it was his tactic this response it typical, its a good strategy and he wants to make sure it works.

#111 Contributive discussion

Town reads Ozzy, and Scum reads Gerik

#165 Comedian argument against Gerik

#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?

#177 Starting discussion.
#179 Clarifying discussion.

#182 Bites at me!

At this point. I review the previous posts.


#5 Break the game

Immediately followed by another similar post, even if I hadn't thought of it clearly wasn't unique. Possible attempt to win town points.
(Geriks idea not mine)

#99 Presure Gerik for non-standard toph post.

After YapYap, Ozzy, FalseTruth all start pressuring him. Possible bandwagon.

#111 Contributive discussion

Clear reason for why he trusts ozzy, and suspects gerik.

#165 Comedian argument against Gerik

Obvious starting to tunnel here.

#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?

Evasive, defensive, actually dodged me entirely. Possible role-fishing.

#177 Starting discussion
#179 Clarifying discussion

Hard to tell, but the second qualifying statement seems to reduce the usefulness of the question, as it allows no room for discussion.

#182 Bites at me!

For providing contributing discussion to the question he asked, albeit not the kind he wanted.

Ill go further if you like, but I honestly may have a case of tunnel vision against him caused by post #182, as well as the fact that I disliked his whole attack on Gerik as I felt I should have been the target instead. (I too am part of the gaang)

[FM Crimson]

Alright. I will take a harder look at Ganondorf. It will take a while though.

im in no rush, also even if we dont lynch gandorf toDay, it will be decided later

[FM Auckmid]

Anyway I´m by far not so good into reading ppl as others, so i wont make one of these lists, but feel free to ask me about my opinion on specefic persons and I will do my best to answer it.

[FM Crimson]

Anyway I´m by far not so good into reading ppl as others, so i wont make one of these lists, but feel free to ask me about my opinion on specefic persons and I will do my best to answer it.

read on gandorf, yap and me

[FM Ganondorf]

i like how ganondor still never follows up on the misrep of what i said about the aang idea and that hes still trying to potshot me.

Apparently I have to answer this directly because Gerik's response isn't sufficient. Your aang idea actually isn't why I suspect you, the posts following triggered an in depth inspection, and a closer look at prior posts revealed your intentions may not be as honorable as they appeared.

[FM vornksr]

Well, I think I'm gonna take off soon so I'm gonna put up my reasoning for flip-flopping my crimson read. First to let you know my first impression.

#5 Break the game

A good tactic, I hadn't thought of it.

#99 Pressures Gerik most likely for his non-standard toph post

Seeing as how it was his tactic this response it typical, its a good strategy and he wants to make sure it works.

#111 Contributive discussion

Town reads Ozzy, and Scum reads Gerik

#165 Comedian argument against Gerik

#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?

#177 Starting discussion.
#179 Clarifying discussion.

#182 Bites at me!

At this point. I review the previous posts.


#5 Break the game

Immediately followed by another similar post, even if I hadn't thought of it clearly wasn't unique. Possible attempt to win town points.
(Geriks idea not mine)

#99 Presure Gerik for non-standard toph post.

After YapYap, Ozzy, FalseTruth all start pressuring him. Possible bandwagon.

#111 Contributive discussion

Clear reason for why he trusts ozzy, and suspects gerik.

#165 Comedian argument against Gerik

Obvious starting to tunnel here.

#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?

Evasive, defensive, actually dodged me entirely. Possible role-fishing.

#177 Starting discussion
#179 Clarifying discussion

Hard to tell, but the second qualifying statement seems to reduce the usefulness of the question, as it allows no room for discussion.

#182 Bites at me!

For providing contributing discussion to the question he asked, albeit not the kind he wanted.

Ill go further if you like, but I honestly may have a case of tunnel vision against him caused by post #182, as well as the fact that I disliked his whole attack on Gerik as I felt I should have been the target instead. (I too am part of the gaang)

omg can you all please stop making post analysis like this? its really painful to look up all these posts. just do the
and copy the text in

[FM Crimson]

also gandorf if im scum what scum am i?

am i neutral scum or fire scum? i have yet to see your elaboration od that idea and that your just making shit up as you go on me

[FM Crimson]

just vote him vornk we wont have to listent ot the BS anymore

[FM Crimson]

Apparently I have to answer this directly because Gerik's response isn't sufficient. Your aang idea actually isn't why I suspect you, the posts following triggered an in depth inspection, and a closer look at prior posts revealed your intentions may not be as honorable as they appeared.

you still dont adress the fact you misrepped the intal thoughts.

[FM vornksr]

my power is limited [zahir]...

[FM Ganondorf]

also gandorf if im scum what scum am i?

am i neutral scum or fire scum? i have yet to see your elaboration od that idea and that your just making shit up as you go on me

Impossible to tell at this point.


you still dont adress the fact you misrepped the intal thoughts.

Please tell me how I misrepresented the aang idea.

[FM Gerik]

So, I´m here now too. I got a gun from a Blacksmith btw.

It could be from an Arms Dealer and could be a fake gun. Why do you think you were chosen to receive the gun out of everyone?

[FM Crimson]

Impossible to tell at this point.


bull fuckingshit, if i am a scum red of yours you should be already peggig me as one or the other, the fact you havent/arent is the bigges shit of an exuase i have ever heard

[FM Crimson]

So, I´m here now too. I got a gun from a Blacksmith btw.

do me a favor and shoot ganondorf or me

[FM Crimson]

Please tell me how I misrepresented the aang idea.

maybe you should go back and read my post and your origional idea and you will see how you misreped

[FM Ganondorf]

maybe you should go back and read my post and your origional idea and you will see how you misreped

Your question not mine. Thanks. I'll answer your question happily when you ask it in a way that I can understand.

[FM Crimson]

Your question not mine. Thanks. I'll answer your question happily when you ask it in a way that I can understand.

you dont need to the fact you are just blitently ignoring it and not going back means you dont want to admit your wrong. your deflection is noted

more vote on gandorf

[FM Gerik]

omg can you all please stop making post analysis like this? its really painful to look up all these posts. just do the and copy the text in

I will include the post text every time I post them just for you if you make a post by post analysis of Ganon. (With the exception of my lw. I literally could not send it and doing it this way would make it larger than the entire FM.)

[FM Ganondorf]

I wonder if there is light at the end of your tunnel :D

[FM Ganondorf]

I will include the post text every time I post them just for you if you make a post by post analysis of Ganon. (With the exception of my lw. I literally could not send it and doing it this way would make it larger than the entire FM.)

Do you know how I misrepresented Crimsons strategy?

[FM Auckmid]

read on gandorf, yap and me

I agree, that Ganondorf seems to be way to focused on you atm and is ignoring anything else, even thought you teased him a bit to it, it doesnt explain his overreaction now.
But I wouldnt say that he is scum just because of it, also he doesnt seem to get any back-up from anyone, so it could just be his solo crusade, because he wants to believe you are scum or couldnt take something you said to him.

To yourself, I cant really put you in any faction, your posts are mostly short and are sparking some discussions in a more neutral way as geriks are doing it, I wouldnt say you are scum at least, cant say much more atm.

Yapyap backed you up for a reason unkown to me, he said you are a "low hanging fruit" and tries to protect you, thought noone except Ganondorf is going for you atm.
On the other hand he ask for explanations on some votes I would like to hear aswell, it isnt really content, but it helps town in the end.

I hope that helps a bit, its just what I see and think atm, do with it what you want.

[FM Crimson]

Do you know how I misrepresented Crimsons strategy?

gerick if you know the answer dont give it to him, let him solve it himself

[FM Auckmid]

It could be from an Arms Dealer and could be a fake gun. Why do you think you were chosen to receive the gun out of everyone?

I see, I have literally no idea to be honest, so it might actually be just a fake gun, but I assume I shouldnt just test it on someone.

[FM Ganondorf]

Honestly I have to agree with YapYap now about the low hanging fruit thing. Pretty sure me and Crimson are both easy picking right now.

[FM Ganondorf]

Come to think of it, it reminds me of FM Hunger Games, Striker and Rue.

[FM Crimson]

Honestly I have to agree with YapYap now about the low hanging fruit thing. Pretty sure me and Crimson are both easy picking right now.

fix it for you. also your statement is contradicting your vote. if you agree that you would of already unvoted/move it the fact you havent is making what your stating a contradiction

[FM Ganondorf]

fix it for you. also your statement is contradicting your vote. if you agree that you would of already unvoted/move it the fact you havent is making what your stating a contradiction

Low hanging fruit doesn't mean not mafia. It just means, an easy lynch. There is no contradiction.

[FM Auckmid]

Also, could we leave out the references of old FM´s, I dont want to read through them, just because ppl find similarities with them at some point.

[FM Gerik]

Do you know how I misrepresented Crimsons strategy?


gerick if you know the answer dont give it to him, let him solve it himself

Im begging to feel like the little kid in the middle while mommy and daddy are fighting.

To be blunt I think the tone of your interactions are heavily shaded by conformation bias as well as heavy emotional shades. To the point its counterproductive to what you are both trying to achieve. It would go a long way if you guys could hit that 'personal feelings reset button' and cut back to a more unbiast logical level.

[FM Ganondorf]

gandorf:

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/29516-Day-One-The-Awakening?p=467751#post467751

read the dam n post and stop misreping my idea. i also gave clear incetive to have appa bus drive anng as a protecion

OH HAI! I found a post where you misrepresented your own idea! If appa is bussing aang and citizen appa provides no protection!

WHEEEEEEEE!

[FM Crimson]

Low hanging fruit doesn't mean not mafia. It just means, an easy lynch. There is no contradiction.

so you are staint now im fire!scum? whos my scum buddies? plz tell me who my buddies are

and b4 you backtack look at the bolded its implies you are now reading me as a mafia suspect. we hav neutrals in the game as well so your stance stating you cant pick is moot

[FM Ganondorf]

Also, could we leave out the references of old FM´s, I dont want to read through them, just because ppl find similarities with them at some point.

But MOMMY HE STARTED IT :P, I was trying to prove a point. That past FM's are not indicative of current issues.

[FM Crimson]

Im begging to feel like the little kid in the middle while mommy and daddy are fighting.

To be blunt I think the tone of your interactions are heavily shaded by conformation bias as well as heavy emotional shades. To the point its counterproductive to what you are both trying to achieve. It would go a long way if you guys could hit that 'personal feelings reset button' and cut back to a more unbiast logical level.

point blank: FUCK LOGIC TO FUCKING HELL

logic is easly manipulated by scums if you are going to read him as town b/c logic i have no convincing you then and i am done here

[FM Auckmid]

I see, I have literally no idea to be honest, so it might actually be just a fake gun, but I assume I shouldnt just test it on someone.

I readed throug hmy day1 posts again and the only thing I could think of is, that he might had agreed with my no lynch day1 strategy
and thought I would be a trustworthy person to receive one, since I seem to be careful with killing ppl. But others had the same opinion so I dunno.

[FM Crimson]

OH HAI! I found a post where you misrepresented your own idea! If appa is bussing aang and citizen appa provides no protection!

WHEEEEEEEE!

easy counterpoint: appa doesnt listen and busses soemone else

your trying to fit everything to your own narrative now, you scum, eat rope

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Ganondorf]

Well, I think I'm gonna listen to Gerik and just drop this conversation, he may be right about the confirmation bias he might not, that's what the town is for. If you read my argument Gerik the read post, not the argument and think that's just confirmation bias that's enough for me.

[FM Crimson]

im not. im going to contine to druve you into the fucking ground until either me or you gets lynched.

honetly you better hope scus kill me tonigh

[FM Ganondorf]

im not. im going to contine to druve you into the fucking ground until either me or you gets lynched.

honetly you better hope scus kill me tonigh

Okay you do that, but don't forget the proper syntax:

"Duel : Playername"

[FM Auckmid]

Crimson you are getting way to narrowed now, too. What is your reason to believe Ganondorf is scum?
I only see you complaining about his vote and reasons on you.

[FM Gerik]

point blank: FUCK LOGIC TO FUCKING HELL

logic is easly manipulated by scums if you are going to read him as town b/c logic i have no convincing you then and i am done here

Im all about intentions. Not logic. But seeing how someone uses logic helps to divine intention. Maybe thats not the best way to go about it but I am not the best player. Im just playing in a very meticulous way this game.
Emotional reactions are much better than logical ones to show alignment but when its player directed and not slot directed it just says "I dont like this guy" which I dont see much value in.

[FM Gerik]

Also when I get stuck in one direction I try to go back and make the opposite case. Like if I keep reading the player as town I break away and try to read them as scum (or visa versa) There is always that chance you are both town and scum is sitting on the sidelines laughing after all.

[FM Crimson]

Crimson you are getting way to narrowed now, too. What is your reason to believe Ganondorf is scum?
I only see you complaining about his vote and reasons on you.

its more then that, tell me anythign else gandorf has done that is reotely pro-town or contibuting to dicussion. if your not going to help my lynch it do me a fuckign favor and use that gun on me toNight


Im all about intentions. Not logic. But seeing how someone uses logic helps to divine intention. Maybe thats not the best way to go about it but I am not the best player. Im just playing in a very meticulous way this game.
Emotional reactions are much better than logical ones to show alignment but when its player directed and not slot directed it just says "I dont like this guy" which I dont see much value in.

tell me what is the town motivation behind gandorf then. heres a hint: there isnt one

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

Alright, so this has been pretty interesting.

I'm seeing Crimson as pretty much solid town. He is super emotionally driven and blinded by his frustration and anger (or he is a great actor, which I don't find believable). It wouldn't make sense to me if he was scum, because he is painting a target on himself as lynchbait because he is being unreasonable in a way by being so focused on his own agenda that he ignores anything else, even counterpoints to his arguments etc.

It's not helping the town if he doesn't put his emotional drive to good use, but but bottomline is that he seems town to me, especially coupled with him being one of the people to push for the Gaang-plan.


My reads on the other participants of today's conversation aren't as strong (or easy to make) but at the very least Gerik is someone I would peg town based on the fact that he is always pushing for conversation and posting his notes to put it in a nutshell.

[FM Crimson]

Also when I get stuck in one direction I try to go back and make the opposite case. Like if I keep reading the player as town I break away and try to read them as scum (or visa versa) There is always that chance you are both town and scum is sitting on the sidelines laughing after all.

when i see the town flip i will belive it, no sooner. you have already sliped up your role. again either vote the fucker or vote me

[FM Gerik]

tell me what is the town motivation behind gandorf then. heres a hint: there isnt one
Im going through every one of his posts again right now. Like I said though. It will take a while.

[FM Ganondorf]

Anyways that aside, I think its relevant that FM Spy showed up didn't post any indication of feedback or the lack thereof, and disappeared.

I also don't exactly understand what Slaol intend by "No", I'd be interested in that when he shows up again.

[FM Crimson]

Alright, so this has been pretty interesting.

I'm seeing Crimson as pretty much solid town. He is super emotionally driven and blinded by his frustration and anger (or he is a great actor, which I don't find believable). It wouldn't make sense to me if he was scum, because he is painting a target on himself as lynchbait because he is being unreasonable in a way by being so focused on his own agenda that he ignores anything else, even counterpoints to his arguments etc.

It's not helping the town if he doesn't put his emotional drive to good use, but but bottomline is that he seems town to me, especially coupled with him being one of the people to push for the Gaang-plan.


My reads on the other participants of today's conversation aren't as strong (or easy to make) but at the very least Gerik is someone I would peg town based on the fact that he is always pushing for conversation and posting his notes to put it in a nutshell.

you gonna vote or sit there and be fucking usless as well?

[FM Crimson]

Im going through every one of his posts again right now. Like I said though. It will take a while.

i grow impatient. im going to be poitn blank again: your not going to convince me. that slot is scum and untill i see a flip or claim, im not thinking otherwise

[FM Rumpel]

Ozymandias:

-About 1/4 or 1/3 of his posts are related to the list.

-A few posts about mechanics and some fluff

-The only real contribution he made is the wall on text on why Gerik is scum, this basically contains
1. comments on Gerik's posts with no particular explanation to why each may be scummy
2. points out that Gerik is scummy because he refuses to give the proper Toph post
3. points out that Gerik is scummy because he contradicts himself

So… Early on, Gerik says scum lurk, but random votes the third most active person. He later decides that scum post heavily, but then is the heaviest poster. He changes his statistics on how likely a good outcome from a random lynch is from 42% to 11%. And he tries to FOS me after I ask him to properly do a Truthseer post. He posts early on that he doesn’t want the Truthseer issue to dominate day chat, but then refuses to post the Truthseer check (and argues about it with everyone) FOR 6 PAGES (and counting).
A good find, but nothing really suggesting that he's scum
4. concludes that he is most likely citizen

- Making a wall of text full of weak reasoning TO CONCLUDE THAT HE IS LIKELY CITIZEN screams that Ozymandias is trying to gain town cred

Some people say that Ozy is citizen trying to be useful, I say that Ozy is scum, most likely firescum trying to be useful

[FM Ganondorf]

Well, I'm putting my computer away so if you have any questions for me quoting me will likely provoke a faster response.

[FM Crimson]

Anyways that aside, I think its relevant that FM Spy showed up didn't post any indication of feedback or the lack thereof, and disappeared.


funny i did the same thing, i have yet to state my feeback. you selective atack is noted

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

you gonna vote or sit there and be fucking usless as well?

Why would I randomly vote someone if I'm not convinced of anyone being scum today right now? I'll do that when I decide I want to pressure someone who is really suspicious to me, thank you very much.

[FM Crimson]

Why would I randomly vote someone if I'm not convinced of anyone being scum today right now? I'll do that when I decide I want to pressure someone who is really suspicious to me, thank you very much.

bitch get your vote in play.

[FM Gerik]

funny i did the same thing, i have yet to state my feeback. you selective atack is noted

Do you have feedback?


Why would I randomly vote someone if I'm not convinced of anyone being scum today right now? I'll do that when I decide I want to pressure someone who is really suspicious to me, thank you very much.

Who is really suspicious to you?

[FM Rumpel]

Ganondorf:

-First post he says something about dueling which does not make any sense whatsoever. His tone shows he wants to contribute.

-Next 15 or so posts ARE LITERALLY USELESS

-Next 5 or so posts he talks with Gerik about LITERALLY USELESS STUFF

-Throws a small FoS on me for "fascinated on Goonswarm's code", I was never fascinated on Goonswarm's code, feel free to look up my posts

-WEIRD AS SHIT REPLACEMENT CLAIM

The second question was dodged not answered but I'll answer tell you anyways, the reason the first post doesn't fit in is because I didn't write it. It was written by the real Ganondorf.

-WEIRDER DENY OF REPLACEMENT

Before you guys get all excited, I wasn't replaced. I simply borrowed part of a post from the real Ganondorf.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...499#post355499
I can't open the link he gave for some reason

-Next 10 or so posts ARE LITERALLY USELESS

-Day 2 posts are focusing on Crimson, some commenting on Gerik's post with no real substance
I won't elaborate too much because I'm too lazy to see each in detail. But Crimson has noted it pretty well

[FM Rumpel]

bitch get your vote in play.

about time you tell us why you voted FalseTruth

[FM vornksr]

I will include the post text every time I post them just for you if you make a post by post analysis of Ganon. (With the exception of my lw. I literally could not send it and doing it this way would make it larger than the entire FM.)

let me start with my opinion on falsetruth.

on day one he was clearly against a lynch. in my opinion this is a nulltell, just as being for a lynch. he clearly tried to contribute on d1 though there was nothing really alignment indicative. or he tried to make it seem like he tries to contribute in order to get townpoints

from a town perspective i understand why he changed his opinion on crimson to null instead of town or scum because he went after him.

this post seems odd to me:

The "I am part of the Gaang" idea was a good one, and not something I think Scum would suggest.
His suggestion that Aang should claim blew my mind, but I thought he was reaction testing.
"ozzy is most likey town, false is probably scum with gerik" I also put down as him doing some reaction testing.

Yeah, I have him at null now. Not Town.

i can see someone putting the aang suggestion down as reaction test, but not the second. if someone claims i am scum, i wouldnt see it as reaction testing. i'd probably ask for the reason, and if it's not reasonable see him as scum. if i was scum i'd also ask and if not reasonable, pretend i see him as scum. i cant really explain what he tried to accomplish by writing this. might be scum trying to destroy the accusation and gain town points by pretending that he can't even believe someone could legitly accuse him

also i don't think scum would have hesitated to suggest the toph strategy. it's certainly not a towntell in my eyes. like it was already said, many people came up with the idea when reading the setup. so good chance to get some town points without hurting themselves. either he didn't think this through or he (as scum) tries to seem townish by pretending he was actually looking for things that could clear people as townies

in general his reasons for putting crimson as town in the first place are at best unconvincive. i also see crimson as leaning town, but i have different reasons. if he's scum he could as mentioned try to look townish by pointing out how townish crimson seemed

to sum it up, no real scumtell, just a bit odd opinions. no read on him but leaning scum

[FM S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha]

@Rumpel: Wasn't Ganondorf a user on this board a long time ago? I assumed that's what FM Ganondorf meant when he said "real" Ganondorf.

@Gerik: Well, if I had someone that seemed really suspicious to me right now then I would be pushing that person alrwady. As it stands, I'm more interested about the lurkers participating more, especially the ones with all fluff (Spy comes to mind). As experience tells us they might not necessarily be scum, but if they aren't then it doesn't help us if they keep their mouths shut.

[FM Gerik]

"15:01#370 (Wtf) So he is digging up old Ganondorf posts and inserting them into the chat in ways that fit the current context? Why the hell would you do that.. That just makes no sense to me. What could his reasoning for this be? Maybe its his idea of fun or maybe he is going to lengths to hide his coms. Maybe he is just trolling or maybe he is hiding behind another users posts because he is scum. -------- So after digging it appears his first post was a direct quote from an earlier FM. That’s where this confusion came from. It probably just trolling and pretty damn funny at that. He even took the guys avatar."

Im going to post my notes and such soon but I figured this yesterday. Its from S-FM High Noon in 2013. His avatar is the real guys avatar as well.

[FM vornksr]

Alright, so this has been pretty interesting.

I'm seeing Crimson as pretty much solid town. He is super emotionally driven and blinded by his frustration and anger (or he is a great actor, which I don't find believable). It wouldn't make sense to me if he was scum, because he is painting a target on himself as lynchbait because he is being unreasonable in a way by being so focused on his own agenda that he ignores anything else, even counterpoints to his arguments etc.



this is exactly the reason i meant in my last post why i see crim town too. as scum he wouldn't want to be such a low hanging fruit. nor emotional, even if he could act. many times i've been emotional when i was about to be mislynched and no it doesn't help.

[FM Rumpel]

@Rumpel: Wasn't Ganondorf a user on this board a long time ago? I assumed that's what FM Ganondorf meant when he said "real" Ganondorf.

@Gerik: Well, if I had someone that seemed really suspicious to me right now then I would be pushing that person alrwady. As it stands, I'm more interested about the lurkers participating more, especially the ones with all fluff (Spy comes to mind). As experience tells us they might not necessarily be scum, but if they aren't then it doesn't help us if they keep their mouths shut.

I have no idea

[FM philie]

Not lurking just working. Hopefully shall give more word later.

[FM Gerik]

Honestly I have to agree with YapYap now about the low hanging fruit thing. Pretty sure me and Crimson are both easy picking right now.

What makes you lynchbait in your mind?

[FM Rumpel]

Not lurking just working. Hopefully shall give more word later.

you bettet since you're climbing up the scumlist

[FM Gerik]

A few things after going through all this a second time:
Town Traits
-He is very mindful of others putting words in his mouth. I see that bit as town. It suggests he is actively on the lookout for others making him look like scum as opposed to a scum on the lookout for players seeing the inner scum in their posts.
-He is very openly letting people read him. He posted a wall to show how he flipped his read on crim, He self analyzes and seemingly hides nothing.
-He appears to dig for players intentions behind their actions. Some real looking scum hunting
-Instigates original conversation and is very active

Neutral Traits
-He pushes against confusion on multiple occasions (Could also be read as trying to appear town)
-A good bit of 'just for giggles' posts
-I have trouble not buddying this player and he either purposely buddys me or has the same trouble. You can find buddy references all over the place in his posts- Most of them directed at me. We could just be people that get along too well or he could be trying to shade my reads on him. (D2#79 is a good example)

Scum Traits
-Some very soft plays; Calling out a player and then backing off after little action on their part
-Some cold plays. As if some of the things he posted were only posted for the sake of it.
-Low shots while debating Crim; Some of his actions were just to beguile Crims argument.
-Some Lack of follow up; When he believed I put some words in his mouth he let it pass without note/Some FoS interactions (Like nailing a real point and letting it slip past after the fact)

I will follow up on this and more pointed conclusion later. I need to get out from in front of a computer for a bit.

Raw notes consolidated

20:01 (Com fluff / random vote) Turns out to be quoting. Also using that players Avatar. Funny but just troll fluff.
16:48#13 (Organizational) Some players said theres a possible loophole there. What rubbish. Connect this with #265 by Yayap for unaligned/weak ass bussing. I really do not think Yayap believes the nonsense he posted there suggesting he is either aligned/bussing or throwing out some bait to see who will bite.
21:04#23 (Fluff) More trolling
15:14#149 (Mechanic fluff / organizational) More organizational than fluff. Neutral
16:57#168 (Challenges Crim) Soft but the insinuations are nice. Kind of makes me wonder how much he says vs how much he holds back. Probably very active with reads coming from his interactions rather than a giant pool of notes. After getting to D2 I suppose this is where he flipped from town read to scum read on Crim. Nothing to suggests that from his posts (Being mostly trolling and neutral)
17:05#172 (Quotes my original toh post) Buddying maybe? Although it is an obvious thing a good chunk of players seemingly forgot existed. It could fit with #149 suggesting in his state of mind his main goal was to eliminate any beguiling to the town.
17:22#181 (Dislikes dictating PR’s actions) Aggressively shooting down a noob idea. Shows either leadership or a desire to appear town. At this point I am getting a town lead and should probably focus more on the scum possibility.
17:39#184 (Votes on Crim without an FoS) There is something here. I find the lack of a lobby for pressure odd. Possible weak bussing or maybe it’s a reaction read. From his earlier posts I would have expected something a bit stronger to go with a vote. Its like he is prodding through the day to see what people will do in a very passive way. Maybe he is trying to stay out of the spotlight while appearing to scum hunt on some level.
21:37#190 (Number question fluff on my estimated success ratio) This feels a bit off. He is trying to read my intent and as it stands now I suppose I dodged the question.
21:41# (More number question fluff) Buddying or not he had a genuine desire to dig through and figure out how I came up with those numbers. Maybe he following my posts a little closer than I thought he was.
12:01#235 (Instigating constructive conversation) Its too bad this didn’t take off. It would have been great to have a bunch of players giving their thoughts on the subject. He obviously wants to get intention reads on players in general. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that he is collecting pages of info on the more prominent players off the bat. I am kind of disturbed to get this vibe but yet his participation in D1 chat is so passive. This kind of staying out of the spotlight. I should keep an eye on him. Additionally I find it odd that he did not follow up at a later time. He just threw the question out and left it to die. Passive attempt to look town?
15:03#269 (Fluff) He says that a few more times later on..
21:18#306 (Fluff) Look- It’s a spam post! Com hunting? Why is this what strikes you with everything going on.. Maybe its one of those brain fried moments where you want to participate but cant bring yourself to do so. Or maybe its simple post farming.
22:06#307 (Fluff)
11:22#314 (Fos/Digging in my mind) Interesting. Am I suppose to note that you are watching them or are they? And are you asserting that you have some real reads in the works or are you just trying to appear that you are scum hunting without actually doing so? Will you be my buddy..
14:23#347 (Digging in my mind again) Curiosity or do you want a peg on how my mind works? Probably the latter but why. What are you trying to get. Is it to clear me as town or to get a vibe on who has my attention and why. Could be a team scum play. I need to watch him.
14:34#352 (Challenge@me) Odd question. But neutral
14:39#356 (Digging in my mind) Im surprised you even have to ask.
14:49#360 (Challenge @Rumpel) He probably came to the same conclusion I did. Maybe reads Rumpel as tpr hunting. Looks like legit scum hunting in every way.
14:54#363 (Trade@Rumpel) Great interactions here. Not only did rumple pick up on his line of thought but he is questioning his intention. Ganondorfs rebuttal is a little cold. A little sad. I get a bad vibe from that. Why wouldn’t he just answer and then demand his questions answered? Why.. Seems scummy.
15:01#370 (Wtf) So he is digging up old Ganondorf posts and inserting them into the chat in ways that fit the current context? Why the hell would you do that.. That just makes no sense to me. What could his reasoning for this be? Maybe its his idea of fun or maybe he is going to lengths to hide his coms. Maybe he is just trolling or maybe he is hiding behind another users posts because he is scum. -------- So after digging it appears his first post was a direct quote from an earlier FM. That’s where this confusion came from. It probably just trolling and pretty damn funny at that. He even took the guys avatar.
15:08#374 (Aggressive Logic)
15:19#377 (Fluff)
15:41#384 (Justification) Everyone confused.
15:46#386 (@me) He thinks I insinuated that he said he was replaced. Lol That’s pretty funny. I bet it gave him a pretty good scum read on me. But its just too funny to correct. I may go back to it some other time. A part of me wants to appear a little more scummy to him and see if he actually pushes on me or if he scum pegs me and leaves me alone. Something to keep in mind.
17:06#391 (Pushing for substance)Kind of funny he just jumped to another issue instead of pushing on me.
17:25#393 (Insulting) Something has him all hot and bothered.. This is a different tone from 2 hours ago.


20:15#4 (Claims no-feedback) Pretty critical of the player.
20:37#7 (Push on spy) He really is quite the afk ninja. Anti lurker to the end.
21:29#19 (Votes Crim)
22:50#33 (Challenges FalseTruth) Pushing for the logic behind his vote.
22:55#35 (@FalseTruth) Further pushing
23:28#40 (Read poke)
12:32#53 (Fluff) Lets off pressure with a very slight answer from FT. I kind of expected a bit more. Softcore Bussing? Or maybe the intention of the question was just to draw out if FT has a lead..
01:09#79 (Digging into my reads on Crim) Suggests he is critical of Crim. Pretty much that he has a scum read on crim. The insinuated tone of the last comment says that he is painting crim in a scum light with some lean. Maybe a dislike for the player or maybe a desire to see him lynched? The second comment suggests it was crim bidding for town points. I can see this and agree with that as a possibility. The first comment I see more as him wanting to comment on that post rather than a rebuttal to my notes. Possibly a bid to manipulate me through my earlier discomfort on the player or possibly that he wants to send me a message and this was just a fitting approach given the situation. And a strong town leader eyh? More buddy action. Its because of a town peg on me but is it to keep me off him or to co-op on potential scum. Is he the kind of player that’s just not conscious about buddying at all and dosnt care to be seen doing it or is it an effort? The tone of “Damn you gerik, you made me get out my computer. I hadn't expected anything from you because of your comment today about being too close to the issue, but its clear you intend to be a strong town leader.” suggests an effort.. Or maybe he is having trouble not buddying me.
01:12#83 (Toh post)
01:15#87 (Insult @ Crim) Why poke the bear… Possibly to discredit him or maybe he just has trouble not pushing such an obvious button. Is it a move to discredit crim based on his emotional reaction?
01:19#89 (Logic poke@Yayap)
01:24#95 (Pointing to scum intention on Crim)
01:28#98 (Fluff) Flipped your read because of his aggression towards you? Well you are willing to admit that you went for a new perspective because of him pushing you. Maybe you understand how shaded your reasoning was there or maybe it’s a “this is what made me dig deeper and see his inner scum’. The latter is more likely. Willingness to talk about this flip is nice though. ---After going through D1 again I don’t see that referenced town read. A hand full of fluff/troll posts and then his first real move is a push on crim. If there was a read flip there is no evidence of it in the chat. Although that in no way means there was not one.
01:29#100 (Insult @ Crim) Just gotta push those buttons.. So unnecessary
03:33#108 (Justification/Logic) Some bile there.
01:37#114 (Insult @Crim)
01:45#124 (Logic poke) Once again being up front on his intentions behind his actions. That nothing to hide vibe coupled with some heavy interaction. I have no clue how many times I have drawn this conclusion at this point.
01:56#133 (Challenging Philie) Its like he sees what I see. I need to try harder to avoid getting a buddy mindset with this guy. Its just hard to be critical of him which worries me.
02:04#140 (Fluff) 3rd time saying this?
02:31#152 (Poke@Crim) Calling him out for dodging a question.
02:34#154 (Gives a townread list)
03:13#169 (Play by play analysis) Some buddying me in there. Most of the points have already been made by him in earlier posts. The time line is interesting when you bump it against his own. His first slight challenge @crim was #168 which is a good 20 posts before he reworked his read. Immediately after reworking his read he voted on crim with a 14 min window from that post to the time he voted.
03:19#173 (Fos @ Crim)
03:26#179 (Responds to Crim) I take it that he feels crim is discrediting him by putting words in his mouth. Two other times he has presented this ‘Don’t put words in my mouth’ bit. Suggests he is very mindful of others trying to make him look like scum through false pretenses.
03:32#184 (Justification)
03:34#187 (Insult @Crim)
03:35#188 (Asking me to defend him?)
03:42#192 (Calls himself lynchbait) This is odd. Maybe seeding doubt in players minds who would FoS him?
03:43#193 (Old FM reference) Long history in this community
03:51#195 (@Crim) So you think he is an easy lynch target but also think he is scum? Crim implied those are mutually exclusive.
03:54#198 (Logic/Crim Fos) I disagree. But kind of a grasping at straws sort of post. The implication would have been that the BD can be used to grant immunity if he knows who Aang is.
03:55#200 (Logic)
04:00#205 (Backing off Crim)
04:03#207 (Fluff)
04:09#215 (FoS @ Spy)
04:13#219 (Fluff)


Raw notes Vorn edition (With quotes)

20:01
Hello everyone, I'm Ganondorf: I don't believe I've played a game with a single one of you before, so I am looking forward to an interesting game. Considering that we have no power role information to go off of and since I don't know you all that well, I would personally support waiting to duel until the second day for two reasons. Reason one: it gives everyone time to analyze each other's behavior, but that is obvious. However, I'm more looking to see who the mafia targets at night before a duel begins. Like it was previously stated, dueling is risky business, but I believe that seeing who the mafia targeted and trying to figure out why might just provide us with enough information to go with it. In the meantime, I'm all for lynching a lurker day 1, but until then... FM MrSmarter (Com fluff / random vote) Turns out to be quoting. Also using that players Avatar. Funny but just troll fluff.

16:48#13
I too am part of the Gaang. (Organizational) Some players said theres a possible loophole there. What rubbish. Connect this with #265 by Yayap for unaligned/weak ass bussing. I really do not think Yayap believes the nonsense he posted there suggesting he is either aligned/bussing or throwing out some bait to see who will bite.

21:04#23
I'd wager it was an ugly sweater. I'd like to know did it win the ugly sweater contest? (Fluff) More trolling

15:14#149
I think this clarifies everything. (Mechanic fluff / organizational) More organizational than fluff. Neutral

16:57#168
You are a little too reliant on Ozy's (From now on Ozzy) list. If that is your entire case it is based on a false premise.
(Challenges Crim) Soft but the insinuations are nice. Kind of makes me wonder how much he says vs how much he holds back. Probably very active with reads coming from his interactions rather than a giant pool of notes. After getting to D2 I suppose this is where he flipped from town read to scum read on Crim. Nothing to suggests that from his posts (Being mostly trolling and neutral)

17:05#172
To clear up any confusion Ozzy may be causing. (Quotes my original toh post) Buddying maybe? Although it is an obvious thing a good chunk of players seemingly forgot existed. It could fit with #149 suggesting in his state of mind his main goal was to eliminate any beguiling to the town.

17:22#181
I think the appropriate expression is NOT NO BUT HELL NO.
Too many Fire Nation roles can exploit this tactic. (Dislikes dictating PR’s actions) Aggressively shooting down a noob idea. Shows either leadership or a desire to appear town. At this point I am getting a town lead and should probably focus more on the scum possibility.

17:39#184
FM Crimson
I think my vote should probably sit here. (Votes on Crim without an FoS) There is something here. I find the lack of a lobby for pressure odd. Possible weak bussing or maybe it’s a reaction read. From his earlier posts I would have expected something a bit stronger to go with a vote. Its like he is prodding through the day to see what people will do in a very passive way. Maybe he is trying to stay out of the spotlight while appearing to scum hunt on some level.

21:37#190
@FM Gerik
You explained why you consider there to be 3 scum instead of 9 (Mafia voting block), but why did your reduce the number of possible lynches? (Number question fluff on my estimated success ratio) This feels a bit off. He is trying to read my intent and as it stands now I suppose I dodged the question.

21:41#191
I think I figured it out, but still I'm coming up with 3/24 or 12.5%. Can you explain where I went wrong?
I assume you have 3/27 for 11.11%? (More number question fluff) Buddying or not he had a genuine desire to dig through and figure out how I came up with those numbers. Maybe he following my posts a little closer than I thought he was.

12:01#235
Nice to see you everyone! I'm your host FM Ganondorf and its time to start our game of LYNCH OR NO LYNCH!
For those of you don't know this game is primarily played the very first day in EVERY sc2mafia FM! Traditionally the arguments are irrelevant and more often than not all players are arguing for the same point of view! Let us begin our exiting game of LYNCH OR NO LYNCH!
(Instigating constructive conversation) Its too bad this didn’t take off. It would have been great to have a bunch of players giving their thoughts on the subject. He obviously wants to get intention reads on players in general. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that he is collecting pages of info on the more prominent players off the bat. I am kind of disturbed to get this vibe but yet his participation in D1 chat is so passive. This kind of staying out of the spotlight. I should keep an eye on him. Additionally I find it odd that he did not follow up at a later time. He just threw the question out and left it to die. Passive attempt to look town?

15:03#269
Why do I have this horrible feeling of Deja Vu?
(Fluff) He says that a few more times later on..

21:18#306
Look! Arrow is lurking about whoever he is.
(Fluff) Look- It’s a spam post! Com hunting? Why is this what strikes you with everything going on.. Maybe its one of those brain fried moments where you want to participate but cant bring yourself to do so. Or maybe its simple post farming.

22:06#307
Happy New Years Everyone!
(Fluff)

11:22#314 Thanks Gerik, I was just about to post something about how useless this day is being, most likely because of new years of course.
Until I'm more confident in my reads, I'd rather not elaborate, but just note I have my eyes on both Crimson and Spy.
I'm interested in the reason you specifically asked me about my vote. Do you share my suspicions or do you suspect the opposite?
(Fos/Digging in my mind) Interesting. Am I suppose to note that you are watching them or are they? And are you asserting that you have some real reads in the works or are you just trying to appear that you are scum hunting without actually doing so? Will you be my buddy..

14:23#347 Things have certainly started rolling. Gerik seems to have picked a good target for pressure, not that I'm convinced of his point of view, but he certainly provoked a nice reaction.
@Gerik I would have thought dodging a question would be quite relevant yet you indicated it you were merely curious. I'd like to know why you don't think it's important.
(Digging in my mind again) Curiosity or do you want a peg on how my mind works? Probably the latter but why. What are you trying to get. Is it to clear me as town or to get a vibe on who has my attention and why. Could be a team scum play. I need to watch him.

14:34#352 That seems a little contradictory, if I'm a player that reads every post how could I possibly have dodged the question unintentionally?
(Challenge@me) Odd question. But neutral

14:39#356 Are you a player that reads every post?
(Digging in my mind) Im surprised you even have to ask.

14:49#360 @Rumpel
I have a few things I'd like to ask you.
Please fix this post, I don't get it.
Why are you so fascinated with Goonswarm's code? What do you intend to learn by solving it?
(Challenge @Rumpel) He probably came to the same conclusion I did. Maybe reads Rumpel as tpr hunting. Looks like legit scum hunting in every way.

14:54#363 I like where you are going with this. I'll make you a deal answer my 2 questions, and I'll tell you more about that post.
(Trade@Rumpel) Great interactions here. Not only did rumple pick up on his line of thought but he is questioning his intention. Ganondorfs rebuttal is a little cold. A little sad. I get a bad vibe from that. Why wouldn’t he just answer and then demand his questions answered? Why.. Seems scummy.

15:01#370 The second question was dodged not answered but I'll answer tell you anyways, the reason the first post doesn't fit in is because I didn't write it. It was written by the real Ganondorf.
(Wtf) So he is digging up old Ganondorf posts and inserting them into the chat in ways that fit the current context? Why the hell would you do that.. That just makes no sense to me. What could his reasoning for this be? Maybe its his idea of fun or maybe he is going to lengths to hide his coms. Maybe he is just trolling or maybe he is hiding behind another users posts because he is scum. -------- So after digging it appears his first post was a direct quote from an earlier FM. That’s where this confusion came from. It probably just trolling and pretty damn funny at that. He even took the guys avatar.

15:08#374 So we stop talking about it, can I just present the theory that its exactly what he said it was? And the reason for the high frequency of real words is autocorrect?
(Aggressive Logic)

15:19#377 Thanks host, you've been really useful so far.
(Fluff)

15:41#384 Before you guys get all excited, I wasn't replaced. I simply borrowed part of a post from the real Ganondorf.

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showth...499#post355499
(Justification) Everyone confused.

15:46#386 Why you little.... I don't approve of the words you just put in my mouth.
(@me) He thinks I insinuated that he said he was replaced. Lol That’s pretty funny. I bet it gave him a pretty good scum read on me. But its just too funny to correct. I may go back to it some other time. A part of me wants to appear a little more scummy to him and see if he actually pushes on me or if he scum pegs me and leaves me alone. Something to keep in mind.

17:06#391 You are welcome to say something useful Sas.
(Pushing for substance)Kind of funny he just jumped to another issue instead of pushing on me.

17:25#393 My bad, you are welcome to start reading.
(Insulting) Something has him all hot and bothered.. This is a different tone from 2 hours ago.


20:15#4 Maybe not, but I for one thought he was pretty goddamn awful.
I had a rather uneventful night.
(Claims no-feedback) Pretty critical of the player.

20:37#7 You didn't take off again already did you spy?
(Push on spy) He really is quite the afk ninja Anti lurker to the end.

21:29#19 Hello Crimson!
-vote FM Crimson
(Votes Crim)

22:50#33 I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe you had a solid town read on him after day 1. Please enlighten me.
(Challenges FalseTruth)

22:55#35 Please elaborate.
(@FalseTruth)

23:28#40 I see. Do you approve of his read on ozzy and gerik?
(Read poke)

12:32#53 Thanks for your thoughts.
(Fluff) Lets off pressure with a very slight answer from FT. I kind of expected a bit more. Bussing? Or maybe the intention of the question was just to draw out if FT has a lead..

01:09#79 Damn you gerik, you made me get out my computer. I hadn't expected anything from you because of your comment today about being too close to the issue, but its clear you intend to be a strong town leader.
I disagree with parts of your assessment, so I'll point out the variations, I'll leave my other thoughts for later after others have had time to contribute.
Originally Posted by FM Gerik
16:38#165 (Response to my asking how I am scummy) I love his logic although I do not agree with it. The tone reeks of anger and frustration. I feel like he has an agenda and what I am doing is fucking with what he wants to do D1. This suggests he has some ‘time proven methodical method’ and my nonsense is out of his norm. Or maybe he just can’t stomach the bullshit I was pushing at that time.
I think this post is actually quite absurd, he starts an argument with an underlying premise that you haven't done the Toph which breaks down his entire post. The logic he uses is convoluted for such a trivial concept that he had already asserted much effectively when he declared the toph strategy initially.
17:18#179 (Pushing for substance against obvious overplayed debates)
I disagree this post actually calls for less substance, as it merely asks for yes or no responses. While I can see why it might be useful, when compared with the question he asked it actually calls for nothing but a bunch of no responses as there is absolutely no way anybody can justify aang claiming d1 in this setup.
17:50#186 (References mechanics)
Incorrectly I might add.
I'd like a response if possible Gerik.
(Digging into my reads on Crim) Suggests he is critical of Crim. Pretty much that he has a scum read on crim. The insinuated tone of the last comment says that he is painting crim in a scum light with some lean. Maybe a dislike for the player or maybe a desire to see him lynched? The second comment suggests it was crim bidding for town points. I can see this and agree with that as a possibility. The first comment I see more as him wanting to comment on that post rather than a rebuttal to my notes. Possibly a bid to manipulate me through my earlier discomfort on the player or possibly that he wants to send me a message and this was just a fitting approach given the situation. And a strong town leader eyh? More buddy action. Its because of a town peg on me but is it to keep me off him or to co-op on potential scum. Is he the kind of player that’s just not conscious about buddying at all and dosnt care to be seen doing it or is it an effort? The tone of “Damn you gerik, you made me get out my computer. I hadn't expected anything from you because of your comment today about being too close to the issue, but its clear you intend to be a strong town leader.” suggests an effort..

01:12#83 I am still part of the Gaang.
(Toh post)

01:15#87 One begins to wonder how well Crimson understands English.
(Insult @ Crim) Why poke the bear… Possibly to discredit him or maybe he just has trouble not pushing such an obvious button. Is it a move to discredit crim based on his emotional reaction?

01:19#89 You keep suggesting that Crimson is "lynchbait" and "low hanging fruit", if you could elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it, and I'm not talking about the concept that is crystal clear. I want to know why you think he qualifies.
(Logic poke@Yayap)

01:24#95 Seemingly accurate, but misleading, I noted very quickly in pregame that
(Pointing to scum intention on Crim)

01:28#98 Interesting, I had him town on a surface level analysis, but after his aggression towards me, I reread him and changed my mind.
(Fluff) Flipped your read because of his aggression towards you? Well you are willing to admit that you went for a new perspective because of him pushing you. Maybe you understand how shaded your reasoning was there or maybe it’s a “this is what made me dig deeper and see his inner scum’. The latter is more likely. Willingness to talk about this flip is nice though.

01:29#100 I'm sorry I didn't realize you wanted to defend yourself. You did after all acknowledge my vote with a lack of care or concern.
(Insult @ Crim)

03:33#108 No, I assumed at the time it was an attempt to spark conversation, that's why I responded, only to get slapped in the face by his follow up posts.
(Justification/Logic) Some bile there.

01:37#114 @Gerik You were spot on with that aggressive personality.
(Insult @Crim)

01:45#124 Anyways, I do actually have a question for you Crimson now that I think about it. Explain why you opened today with a desire to sheep FalseTruth, if anything I took that as a soft for investigative with a lead, and yet were willing to give that train up before it even began. I'll admit I was pushing your buttons. I saw them just as clearly as Gerik did.
(Logic poke) Once again being up front on his intentions behind his actions. That nothing to hide vibe coupled with some heavy interaction. I have no clue how many times I have drawn this conclusion at this point.

01:56#133 The timing on these posts, it would make me so happy if you didn't read Gerik's before posting this.
(Challenging Philie) Its like he sees what I see. I need to try harder to avoid getting a buddy mindset with this guy. Its just hard to be critical of him which worries me.

02:04#140 Déjà vu
(Fluff)

02:31#152 Still not finding it, the closest I can find is #299 and honestly I'm not feeling it.
(Poke@Crim) Calling him out for dodging a question.

02:34#154 Honestly I have a similar town list, except I replace crimson with ozzy, probably for the same reasons, crimson was on it at one point.
(Gives a townread list)

03:13#169 Well, I think I'm gonna take off soon so I'm gonna put up my reasoning for flip-flopping my crimson read. First to let you know my first impression.
#5 Break the game
A good tactic, I hadn't thought of it.
#99 Pressures Gerik most likely for his non-standard toph post
Seeing as how it was his tactic this response it typical, its a good strategy and he wants to make sure it works.
#111 Contributive discussion
Town reads Ozzy, and Scum reads Gerik
#165 Comedian argument against Gerik
#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?
#177 Starting discussion.
#179 Clarifying discussion.
#182 Bites at me!
At this point. I review the previous posts.
#5 Break the game
Immediately followed by another similar post, even if I hadn't thought of it clearly wasn't unique. Possible attempt to win town points.
(Geriks idea not mine)
#99 Presure Gerik for non-standard toph post.
After YapYap, Ozzy, FalseTruth all start pressuring him. Possible bandwagon.
#111 Contributive discussion
Clear reason for why he trusts ozzy, and suspects gerik.
#165 Comedian argument against Gerik
Obvious starting to tunnel here.
#173 Defensive against ozzy and I, asking for Gerik to role-claim?
Evasive, defensive, actually dodged me entirely. Possible role-fishing.
#177 Starting discussion
#179 Clarifying discussion
Hard to tell, but the second qualifying statement seems to reduce the usefulness of the question, as it allows no room for discussion.
#182 Bites at me!
For providing contributing discussion to the question he asked, albeit not the kind he wanted.
Ill go further if you like, but I honestly may have a case of tunnel vision against him caused by post #182, as well as the fact that I disliked his whole attack on Gerik as I felt I should have been the target instead. (I too am part of the gaang)
(Play by play analysis) Some buddying me in there. Most of the points have already been made by him in earlier posts. The time line is interesting when you bump it against his own. His first slight challenge @crim was #168 which is a good 20 posts before he reworked his read. Immediately after reworking his read he voted on crim with a 14 min window from that post to the time he voted.

03:19#173 Apparently I have to answer this directly because Gerik's response isn't sufficient. Your aang idea actually isn't why I suspect you, the posts following triggered an in depth inspection, and a closer look at prior posts revealed your intentions may not be as honorable as they appeared.
(Fos @ Crim)
03:26#179 Impossible to tell at this point.
Please tell me how I misrepresented the aang idea.
(Responds to Crim) I take it that he feels crim is discrediting him by putting words in his mouth. Two other times he has presented this ‘Don’t put words in my mouth’ bit. Suggests he is very mindful of others trying to make him look like scum through false pretenses.

03:32#184 Your question not mine. Thanks. I'll answer your question happily when you ask it in a way that I can understand.
(Justification)

03:34#187 I wonder if there is light at the end of your tunnel
(Insult @Crim)

03:35#188 Do you know how I misrepresented Crimsons strategy?
(Asking me to defend him?)

03:42#192 Honestly I have to agree with YapYap now about the low hanging fruit thing. Pretty sure me and Crimson are both easy picking right now.
(Calls himself lynchbait) This is odd. Maybe seeding doubt in players minds who would FoS him?

03:43#193 Come to think of it, it reminds me of FM Hunger Games, Striker and Rue.
(Old FM reference) Long history in this community

03:51#195 Low hanging fruit doesn't mean not mafia. It just means, an easy lynch. There is no contradiction.
(@Crim) So you think he is an easy lynch target but also think he is scum? Crim implied those are mutually exclusive.

03:54#198 OH HAI! I found a post where you misrepresented your own idea! If appa is bussing aang and citizen appa provides no protection!
WHEEEEEEEE!
(Logic/Crim Fos) I disagree. But kind of a grasping at straws sort of post. The implication would have been that the BD can be used to grant immunity if he knows who Aang is.

03:55#200 But MOMMY HE STARTED IT :P, I was trying to prove a point. That past FM's are not indicative of current issues.
(Logic)

04:00#205 Well, I think I'm gonna listen to Gerik and just drop this conversation, he may be right about the confirmation bias he might not, that's what the town is for. If you read my argument Gerik the read post, not the argument and think that's just confirmation bias that's enough for me.
(Backing off Crim)

04:03#207 Okay you do that, but don't forget the proper syntax:
"Duel : Playername"
(Fluff)

04:09#215 Anyways that aside, I think its relevant that FM Spy showed up didn't post any indication of feedback or the lack thereof, and disappeared.
I also don't exactly understand what Slaol intend by "No", I'd be interested in that when he shows up again.
(FoS @ Spy)

04:13#219 Well, I'm putting my computer away so if you have any questions for me quoting me will likely provoke a faster response.
(Fluff)

[FM Rumpel]

@Gerik what's your conclusion

cause mine is FM Ganondorf

[FM Ganondorf]

What makes you lynchbait in your mind?

Tunneling mainly, I spent a good chunk of today with the primary purpose of starting a train on crimson, which is great if I'm right, but if not I've drawn a lot of unnecessary attention and alienated a good chunk of the town because of my focus.

[FM Ganondorf]

A few things after going through all this a second time:
Scum Traits
-Some Lack of follow up; When he believed I put some words in his mouth he let it pass without note/Some FoS interactions (Like nailing a real point and letting it slip past after the fact)


You are misrepresenting the truth here. You DID put words in my mouth, but I believed it to be accidental so I just wanted to note it, the post I quoted literally quoted me saying something I did not say, but that made sense if put outside.

[FM Ganondorf]

A few things after going through all this a second time:
Town Traits
-He is very mindful of others putting words in his mouth. I see that bit as town. It suggests he is actively on the lookout for others making him look like scum as opposed to a scum on the lookout for players seeing the inner scum in their posts.

Neutral Traits
-I have trouble not buddying this player and he either purposely buddys me or has the same trouble. You can find buddy references all over the place in his posts- Most of them directed at me. We could just be people that get along too well or he could be trying to shade my reads on him. (D2#79 is a good example)



Something you put in your town box sounds awfully lot like a scum tell to me, but I disagree with your statement anyways. I'm not particularly interested in how others perceive me as nipping deception in the bud. I don't care who's words are being twisted it needs to be stopped.

And yes, I am buddying you and it is intentional and obvious, nothing shady about it.

[FM Ganondorf]

12:01#235 (Instigating constructive conversation) Its too bad this didn’t take off. It would have been great to have a bunch of players giving their thoughts on the subject. He obviously wants to get intention reads on players in general. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that he is collecting pages of info on the more prominent players off the bat. I am kind of disturbed to get this vibe but yet his participation in D1 chat is so passive. This kind of staying out of the spotlight. I should keep an eye on him. Additionally I find it odd that he did not follow up at a later time. He just threw the question out and left it to die. Passive attempt to look town?


You got me wrong here, I was actually trying to use satire to end the conversation before it began, I find the lynch/nolynch discussion to be overall useless.




15:46#386 (@me) He thinks I insinuated that he said he was replaced. Lol That’s pretty funny. I bet it gave him a pretty good scum read on me. But its just too funny to correct. I may go back to it some other time. A part of me wants to appear a little more scummy to him and see if he actually pushes on me or if he scum pegs me and leaves me alone. Something to keep in mind.



These are the words you put in my mouth.

"Also I agree that a large chunk of his posts are fluff. There was a significant focus on mechanics early on."

[FM Gerik]

@Gerik what's your conclusion

cause mine is FM Ganondorf

My vote stays on Goon. That second time I went though his posts I tried to see him as scum and I still do not feel like there is near enough on him to lynch him.


You are misrepresenting the truth here. You DID put words in my mouth, but I believed it to be accidental so I just wanted to note it, the post I quoted literally quoted me saying something I did not say, but that made sense if put outside.

At the time you said it was not your words I thought we were talking about a different post. This is why I was so confused.


Something you put in your town box sounds awfully lot like a scum tell to me, but I disagree with your statement anyways. I'm not particularly interested in how others perceive me as nipping deception in the bud. I don't care who's words are being twisted it needs to be stopped.

And yes, I am buddying you and it is intentional and obvious, nothing shady about it.

Lol. I see being mindful as how you are read as part of the game. Being especially mindful of others twisting your words is a town tell for me. Maybe I am wrong or ignorant or something. But I stand by that.

Also I thought about it and I do not believe anyone can Fos me at this point. Im as close to confirmed town as we have for 2 reasons:

I have insane notes on anyone I can drop without creating them. I have never seen scum go to nearly the lengths I have with notes and reads. Anyone will probably read that as town (Even though I am sure someone is going to tell me about the time there was this scum with a lot of notes)

And I was tagged by red or an arson last night. This means that even if I am not scum I am probably dead in a night or three anyways. I would be surprised to see anyone believe there is a red who kills like an arson, a mass murderer, and an arson in the game.

The scum argument for me would be that I could be lying. But another person could come on and claim that feedback, then when they did sabatoge/burn I would be found out. If you consider my play style its obvious I wouldn't make that bid.

Call me a bad player or wrong. But its a really long shot to paint me as anything but town.

[FM MrSmarter]

I am part of the Gaang

[FM Gerik]

Or option 3: I am red hit by arson / neutral hit by red. In both cases I will still die soon and there will be a role flip.

[FM MrSmarter]

Going to read into why Ganondorf is being voted against since I skimmed through 5 pages already.

Also Yayap seems like a very real scum, not saying this because she said she had a gut feeling of me being scum, but because she is actually afraid to call people scum. She wants people to put input on a target she looks at to get some actual jurisdiction on someone and she tends to read null on a lot of people. She did heavily push the I am part of the Gaang, but nothing about that says she is town because of that. Scum could just as easily push that in hopes Toph won't pick her because she was pushing it. She could just be very indecisive on her reads, but imo I think she is probably scum.

[FM Procyon]

I was charged last night.

[FM MrSmarter]

I was charged last night.

Hmmm so the fire nation charged you for some reason. You didn't do much yesterday, but you did vote FM Ganondorf and FM Monster. That might correlate to why they chose to charge you.

[FM Gerik]

- Role List -

- Fire Nation -
Ozai (Phoenix King)
Azula (Crown Princess)
Hidden Fire Nation (Arms Dealer?)
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation
Hidden Fire Nation

- Neutral Evil -
Combustion Man (Mass Murderer)
Hama (Electro Maniac)

- The Gaang -
Aang (Avatar)
Katara (Doctor)
Sokka (Nurse)
Toph (Truthseer)
Zuko (Vigilante)
Appa (Bus Driver)
Iroh (Grand Lotus)
Jeong Jeong (Blacksmith?)
King Bumi (Hidden Gaang)
Master Pakku (Hidden Gaang)
Piandao (Hidden Gaang)
Momo (Hidden Gaang)
Haru (Hidden Gaang)
Hakoda (Hidden Gaang)
Bato (Hidden Gaang)
Huu (Hidden Gaang)
Guru Pathik(Hidden Gaang)
Chit Sang (Hidden Gaang)
The Boulder (Hidden Gaang)
Suki (Hidden Gaang)
The Duke (Hidden Gaang)

- Ember Island Informant -
Cabbage Merchant (Hidden Benign)

[FM Gerik]

Hmmm so the fire nation charged you for some reason. You didn't do much yesterday, but you did vote FM Ganondorf and FM Monster. That might correlate to why they chose to charge you.

This is actually much more likely than my immediate assumption of an electromaniac. I blame "The interview"

[FM MrSmarter]

This is actually much more likely than my immediate assumption of an electromaniac. I blame "The interview"

Well yea since The Crown Princess is a guaranteed electromaniac in the game. I have yet to watch that, but can't wait to see it.

[FM Gerik]

Well yea since The Crown Princess is a guaranteed electromaniac in the game. I have yet to watch that, but can't wait to see it.

20 mins in and Im having trouble looking away. There may or may not be a link to the movie in the "General Discussion" section. Although I rented it through my tv.

[FM MrSmarter]

20 mins in and Im having trouble looking away. There may or may not be a link to the movie in the "General Discussion" section. Although I rented it through my tv.

I'll probably rent it through tv too. But thanks anyways.