Day X Discussion: A Monarch Rises

[Elixir]

It all ends here.

[Elixir]

I guess you could say Roger went out with a... bang.

Ho ho ho

[FalseTruth]

MY Prediction: Vorn chooses not to vote. Cluted red mafia votes Vorn. Rosenberg wastes a ton of time thinking and then eventually votes Vorn. Town loses. Culted Red and Orange kill each other.

Nobody wins!

unlikely? I think not!

[Elizabeth]

Wow, I thought Ralph would heal Roger. I think 1 of 3 things happend...
1)Gladys bribed Ralph
2)Ralph decided that in order to best force a prisoners dilema, Roger needed to go, so tacticly decided to let him die
3)Ralph thought Gladys would target him, and just in case Rosenberg targeted Gladys, he healed Gladys.

I think that it was 2, with Ralph seeing Gladys getting impatient, and rearlizing that if she and a townie died on the same night, it would cause Rosenberg to win. However, Gladys and Rosenberg could make an alliance, and lynch Ralph if he isn't carful.

Either way, Gladys and Rosenberg are competent opponent's, and this can go many ways, but it looks bleak for Town at the moment after this big fumble.

[Elixir]

If Ralph gets lynched, Orange Mafia Wins.

Roger was double killed.

[FalseTruth]

Actually none of those happened, Elizabeth. Ralph healed Gladys. Gladys AND Rosenberg attacked Roger.

[Elizabeth]

MY Prediction: Vorn chooses not to vote. Cluted red mafia votes Vorn. Rosenberg wastes a ton of time thinking and then eventually votes Vorn. Town loses. Culted Red and Orange kill each other.

Nobody wins!

unlikely? I think not!
What happens if it goes down to 1 Mafia vs 1 enemy Mafia? If it then when to night, everyone dies (going to go down as a mistake Gladys useing that role-block on Rosenberg Night 8, shes gonna regret it tonight)

[Alan]

What happens if it goes down to 1 Mafia vs 1 enemy Mafia? If it then when to night, everyone dies (going to go down as a mistake Gladys useing that role-block on Rosenberg Night 8, shes gonna regret it tonight)

Mafia wins over cult.

Also Gladys can't use a robbed ability while she kills so it doesn't matter.

[Elixir]

Gladys is technically a Cultist now.

Mafia take priority over Cult.

Game ends in a 1v1 scenario.

[Elizabeth]

Okay. Todays gonna end in a no lynch. Ralph loses if there is a lynch, and Gladys loses if she votes Roger, so this is actualy gonna end in Cult or Town victory

Due to Jailors Dilema, unless Gladys does some realy quick thinking, or Rosenberg kills Ralph tonight.

Town Victory=66%(guess)

Cult Victory=33%(guess)

Mafia Victory=0%(There will be a no lynch today, and Gladys will definately target Rosenberg)

Also, why does False get to use his regular acount?

[Elixir]

He hacked the mainframe.

Please report him.

[FalseTruth]

Elixir is a sourpuss. Nobody wins is impossible by his rules. :(

(Even though the fact of the matter is that nobody deserves to win this game)

[Verna]

So it is a "nobody wins" for everyone, except the host. Sc2mafia decides priorities after nights(even a town vs SK technically goes to night), but I guess forum mafia is absolutely different than that, what do I really know.

I am going to be supportive this time, enough with the negativity. Great rules Elixir, everybody should learn from you. Never establish a clear set of rules so you can make them up as you go. Good job.

[Elixir]

I'll just go take myself off the fm host schedule.

My question to you is, then, why are you so adamant to see everyone lose?

I can just close the thread now, and say no one wins if you think it best for those still participating.

[Joshua]

Now, these two scum must decide whether or not they want the other to win. Each of the scum can only win if the other lets him win. If they both decide that the other should not win, town wins.

[Elixir]

I also believe this wont change a damn thing. Ralph wont vote, Gladys will shoot Rosenberg, Rosenberg will shoot gladys and town will win.

[FalseTruth]

I'll just go take myself off the fm host schedule.

My question to you is, then, why are you so adamant to see everyone lose?

I can just close the thread now, and say no one wins if you think it best for those still participating.

No one is adamant that they want a "Nobody wins". Its just that the entire game was played assuming no win order. Logically speaking, why would the game end if there was a culted guy with a gun and a mafia with a gun right next to each other. Reread win conditions Elixir. What you want to do is contradictory to their win conditions.

[Elixir]

The new rosenberg asked me 2 days ago what happens in a 1v1 scenario and I answered him.

If the other two want to assume one way or the other it's their prerogative.

I'm not catering for it. Hate me all you want.

[FalseTruth]

*DING DING DING* CORRECT!

[Alan]

As long as you stick to a set of rules, they're fine. Just because sc2mafia does it in a way it doesn't mean the forum mafia have to do it the same.

[Yvette]

It was obvious to me that if two different factions type are in a 1v1 scenario, there would be priority. I don't see how this is wrong in any way. It would have been different if there were two mafia teams, in that case i would understand and accept both a priority system (reds over oranges, perhaps) and a nobody wins. Neither of them are really fair or realistic, but the game has to come to an end, eventually. You will know who played better and who was just incredibly lucky, you know who really deserved the win. It's just like FM2 for red mafia, or FM3. The factions who won were not the factions who deserved the victory.

Also i have always found the sc2 victory check system to be extremely wrong, so i fully agree with elixir decisions. He may have clarified them in the original post, but then again people could just ask him.

[Verna]

Ok, I don't like to leave things like this. So I will make this wall-of-text post to fully explain my position. The internet has become a really disgusting place these days, as long as you disagree with someone, words like hating, flaming, qq, etc. get thrown around. So first of all I am not hating on Elixir, I am disagreeing with him. Take it as constructive criticism if you want. Why would you say you will take yourself off the hosting list, everyone pretty much agrees you are the best host so far. Anyway to the actual argument.

First - the clearly defined rules point. You have to have a more clearly defined rule set, that doesn't leave much room for misinterpretation. I have seen many posts made by Elixir where he says a ton of people are PMing him about stuff - this would only happen if people are dumb and can't think for themselves or if the rules are vague. Should I really bring up the student role card again, it is clearly misleading even if grammatically correct - Yayap admitted he asked for a clarification about that, and he is generally deemed not a dumb person. Another thing is that when the rules are not set beforehand, you wait till a specific situation arises to decide what the correct course of action is, which leads to one or more parties involved being screwed over. Obviously some situations are really unique and you really can't have predicted them happening, so you can't make an ultimate rule book, I understand that. I also believe that if some major rules were set in PM the mod should announce them publicly in the game thread immediately.

Second - the "this is not sc2mafia" argument. In the current situation we have the priority win order directly carried over from that game(mafia>cult), but priorities there are decided only at the beginning of a new day. In this game however, you decided that the priority win order will come into effect at the beginning of the night. You see how some things are different, others are the same, but none of them are actually defined beforehand. So as a player I should somehow know that the priorities are exactly the same as sc2mafia, but a nobody wins scenario is impossible. From a logical perspective I am assuming the exact opposite. What if it had been 2 mafia left standing. Would red take over orange or the other way around? Would it have gone to a night?

For example I now see that Gladys in the current game had absolutely no reason to shoot a townie, because his only hope of winning was to eliminate Rosenberg at night, while he eliminates a town member. As long as Rosenberg is alive, he can't win no matter what. But should Rosenberg fail to kill a townie, town would auto win a 2v1. So it seemed Gladys was simply playing towards the safe "nobody wins" endgame, not risking a town win. But such endgame was never possible, as I spectator I am wondering did he really know that when he made his choice?

Third - about wanting everybody to lose. I have said numerous time that I don't have any bias towards any faction winning. If you think the game is better and more fun with a clear winner and people who celebrate their victory then this is a valid way to look at things, I am not really against that. In past games people got credit for playing good and not necessarily for achieving ultimate victory at any cost. For me personally "orange mafia wins" and "town wins" and "nobody wins" are basically the same, especially after this standoff situation that has been going on for days. For the record I see the "nobody wins" as a draw, not so much as everybody is a loser.

To sum things up:

Yes, I disagree with the game not going to a night in the event of 1v1.
No, I am not telling Elixir to change it - he is the host, he decides.
My opinion is my own and I may be wrong about many things.
Don't take yourself off the hosting list because some random guy has disagreed with you, many more random guys will be sad pandas if that happens.
I wrote this because I have nothing better to do currently.
This line is bolded.
For next forum mafia could you simply add two lines of text in the OP stating the priority win order and when it comes into play. Please?

[Elixir]

I have made sure that subsequent hosts are informed to do so.

[Jimmy1]

Was "Martyrdom" a reference to Roger's grenade?

[Elixir]

Heheheh.

[Candice]

FFS, Sc2 mafia priorities DO NOT only trigger at the beginning of a new day. They trigger AS SOON as a 1v1 scenario occurs. It's just that you see it happen more often at day because it becomes a 1v1 scenario after the night ends.

This is why you see scenarios where the GF complains about losing when he could kill the SK at night, the Jailor could jail and execute the GF, the mayor could lynch an evil role with no ability to kill all the fucking time in the bug report forums and suggestions.

[Verna]

Link and Replay and I will shut up.

[Velma]

Link and Replay and I will shut up.


Two town and a witch, witch convinces town to lynch the other townie. Day ends after lynch, no night

[Verna]

Link and Replay and I will shut up.

Two town and a witch, witch convinces town to lynch the other townie. Day ends after lynch, no night


Your example just demonstrates the anti-griefing measures in sc2mafia to prevent a killing role from killing a neutral that has already won the game or for example to prevent a witch from making a mafioso kill itself. The game doesn't distinguish factions as long as a non-killing neutral is involved and ends before night. I am pretty sure it works with all - witch/surv/amn/exe/jester. This was never what I had in mind.

........

Please no more.... I am mentally tired of this, I concede on all points as long as next time the rules are clear beforehand. Elixir said as much, so I am leaving it here. Good night or day or whatever. Go watch IEM.

[Elixir]

All 3 remaining players can now see dead chat :)

[Thelma]

HI GLADYS RALPH AND JANE!

[Elizabeth]

So, the winner of the game is about to be decided by Rosenbergs decision last night. Gladys will amost certainly lose if she didn't target Rosenberg, so her choice is obvious. Likewise, the only way Ralph can win is if both Rosenberg and Gladys dies, so he obviously healed no one. The fate of the game rests on Rosenbergs final choice.

If he chose to no kill, or to kill Ralph, the Cult wins. If he choses to kill Gladys, the Cult wins. I would be more inclined to believe a Town victory, even though as a faction, we didn't play that great (up until Day 8, we hadn't lynched a single Mafia, and town had lost its majority by then) but a Cult victory is still definately possible.

[Velma]

So, the winner of the game is about to be decided by Rosenbergs decision last night. Gladys will amost certainly lose if she didn't target Rosenberg, so her choice is obvious. Likewise, the only way Ralph can win is if both Rosenberg and Gladys dies, so he obviously healed no one. The fate of the game rests on Rosenbergs final choice.

If he chose to no kill, or to kill Ralph, the Cult wins. If he choses to kill Gladys, the Cult wins. I would be more inclined to believe a Town victory, even though as a faction, we didn't play that great (up until Day 8, we hadn't lynched a single Mafia, and town had lost its majority by then) but a Cult victory is still definately possible.



wwwwwwwhat?

[Elizabeth]

So, the winner of the game is about to be decided by Rosenbergs decision last night. Gladys will amost certainly lose if she didn't target Rosenberg, so her choice is obvious. Likewise, the only way Ralph can win is if both Rosenberg and Gladys dies, so he obviously healed no one. The fate of the game rests on Rosenbergs final choice.

If he chose to no kill, or to kill Ralph, the Cult wins. If he choses to kill Gladys, the Town wins. I would be more inclined to believe a Town victory, even though as a faction, we didn't play that great (up until Day 8, we hadn't lynched a single Mafia, and town had lost its majority by then) but a Cult victory is still definately possible.
Sorry, typo.

[Jimmy1]

Even with everybody here, dead chat has died T.T

[Ralph]

What is there to say at this point? I think we're all just waiting to find out who finally wins... :)

[Jerry]

Hopefully not the cult, dam I realy hated the cult...
Also I'm obviously the only one to to such an badassmove :(

[Velma]

Hopefully not the cult, dam I realy hated the cult...
Also I'm obviously the only one to to such an badassmove :(


Me and Thomas in conjuction pulled off the worst game move through chance and stupidity that we possibly could have.

Killing the mayor

[Janet]

Bus driver is really hard to play tbh. The number of scenarios where you can hurt the town is insane.

I think it is actually a mafia role in epic mafia because of the confusion it can create.

[Elizabeth]

Hopefully not the cult, dam I realy hated the cult...
Also I'm obviously the only one to to such an badassmove :(
Was what you did 1 of the most terrible moves of the game? Yes. Would I have done the same thing in your possition? Probably.

[Ralph]

I don't get it. It made 100% sense. As mafia, he wanted mafia to win--so he attacks the cult leader. If he gets culted, the attack doesn't go through, so no harm done. It's was the best way to play for his alignment; it was entirely rational, and exactly what I would have done without a moment's hesitation. I'm actually pretty surprised that it's not what the disguiser did too.

As for Velma, I don't think you're respsonsible for killing the mayor at all. That's entirely Thomas's fault for picking a really dumb vigi target when there were so much better ones available. Your biggest mistake was not lynching Chris when we had the chance.

[Janet]

Letting himself get culted would have been betraying Jerry's win condition. Either he gets culted and doesn't kill or he stops the cult from winning that very turn.

In any case, best move for the cult would be culting the doctor since he is the only one who can't be unculted right? Then 2/4 cult members would have lived for sure and maybe he would have saved a third?

[Jerry]

I don't get it. It made 100% sense. As mafia, he wanted mafia to win--so he attacks the cult leader. If he gets culted, the attack doesn't go through, so no harm done. It's was the best way to play for his alignment; it was entirely rational, and exactly what I would have done without a moment's hesitation. I'm actually pretty surprised that it's not what the disguiser did too.

As for Velma, I don't think you're respsonsible for killing the mayor at all. That's entirely Thomas's fault for picking a really dumb vigi target when there were so much better ones available. Your biggest mistake was not lynching Chris when we had the chance.


Exactly, and if i would have managed to get gladys lynched before she could bring up the point why a culted gf would kill the cl, I would have had the best chance to win. still amazing how people still could have thought that gladys was the gf :D

Although I think Gladys did very very well both for Mafia and for Cult, thou she pretty much deserves mvp even if she does not win at the end

[Elixir]

I am back from ebx. So epic.

I'll end it within a day.

[Thelma]

WOO!

[Elixir]

Dead chat is now public.

I am going to be locking the FM accounts.

:)

[Thelma]

NOO!

[Thelma]

Dead chat is now public.

I am going to be locking the FM accounts.

:)


Oh, how was EBX or sumting.

[vornksr]

test

[jaczac]

YOU KILLED THELMA!!!

WAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!