S-FM 131: Reversed Mafia

[powerofdeath]

It been decades since the great legendary Godfather took over this peaceful town. Well, it isn't peaceful anymore is it? He started out small and worked up through the ranks. He took over the corrupted City government. He was a great man. The City was actually happier with him in charge instead of the old government so they let him alone. I missed him, I truly do. Last Friday, he was eating at his favorite restaurant: Ruby Tuesday. Ironic, isn't it? Anyway, he had a heart attack. We tried saving him, but it was too late. My brother took it hard. It affected him you know? He was like a father to him. In his will, he left the charge to my brother. He became a tyrant. After a failed attempt of assassination of me, I fled the city. I am now looking to form a small group to stop this madman!

Player List:
1. Tonex
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Set Up is located here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26728-S-FM-Reverse-Mafia?p=434375#post434375)

Night 1 has begun! You must submit a night action or you will turn into a vegetable!

Night end in 24 hours. (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=11%3A30+PM+EST+April+3rd+2014)

[powerofdeath]

Tonex was found dead last night. His role was fool.

Player List:
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

9

[Citrus]

Is this open/when does day end?

[powerofdeath]

Day end in 24 hours (http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5%3A10+PM+EST+April+4th+2014&x=-284&y=-71)

[Citrus]

1) Tracker out if your target visited two people (discovered Stalker, easy win)
2) Masons mason every night, when you have 3+ just send enough for a majority
3) Fool is dead so we lynch any cc (ex: 2 vig claims), without a solid lead it's better to no lynch to give masons more space to reach 3+

Skip

[Apache]

1) Tracker out if your target visited two people (discovered Stalker, easy win)
2) Masons mason every night, when you have 3+ just send enough for a majority
3) Fool is dead so we lynch any cc (ex: 2 vig claims), without a solid lead it's better to no lynch to give masons more space to reach 3+

Skip

are you town? stalker is our ally, not our enemy

[Citrus]

are you town? stalker is our ally, not our enemy

Have you played this on epicmafia before? Most players outside stalker get mason'ed, unless masons mis-mason.

Once the stalker is discovered masons can just mason everyone other than the stalker, then lynch (autowin for everyone but stalker)

[Brendan]

setup links to signup not the setup ^.^

[Apache]

Have you played this on epicmafia before? Most players outside stalker get mason'ed, unless masons mis-mason.

Once the stalker is discovered masons can just mason everyone other than the stalker, then lynch (autowin for everyone but stalker)

no haven't played this yet

[powerofdeath]

setup links to signup not the setup ^.^

It's a link to the link.

[Helz]

This is the worst conversation I have ever read.

[Brendan]

It's a link to the link.

y.

[Vantas]

Wow day has been completely unproductive so far.

Anyway, there really isn't much to go off of, so we have two options. We can try to lynch someone blindly or skip and see how that goes. With fool dead, that means the game won't end unexpectedly after a lynch, so there's that.
@Apache Same boat here I'm not sure if the typical crowd's supposed to play in the interest of town or mafia... :v

[Frog]

Ok fool is out. I am traitor. The way I see it, we need to lynch everyday to kill a town important role, if we lose a citizen, its not a huge deal. We need to find the vigilante and/or Mason and lynch. A day lynch would be best. The odds are in favor of random lynching important town vs. random lynch important mafia. Let's random lynch. If you are mafia, please follow my train of thought or expand on it. I am drunk and happy. I love Ferrari models.

I'll gladly follow any random lynch. I may not be awake in the morning so I'll lead one in 10 minutes.

[Frog]

Yeah, anyone voting to skip is town in my books.

Citrus

Worse case scenario of random lynch is most likely just losing a traitor. Best case scenario is getting rid of town important scum. Let's do this. CHOO CHOO mother flippers.

[Vantas]

Tonex was found dead last night. His role was fool.

Player List:
2. Louiswill
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
8. Vantas
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

9
We need 9 votes to lynch. AKA, everyone to vote lynch INCLUDING the person getting lynched. That's not going to happen. No one's going to want out of the game unless they're the fool, which that role is already dead.

[louiswill]

We need 9 votes to lynch. AKA, everyone to vote lynch INCLUDING the person getting lynched. That's not going to happen. No one's going to want out of the game unless they're the fool, which that role is already dead.

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

[louiswill]

I will give out my suggestion of lynch after Pod answers my question.

[Citrus]

Yeah, anyone voting to skip is town in my books.

Citrus

Worse case scenario of random lynch is most likely just losing a traitor. Best case scenario is getting rid of town important scum. Let's do this. CHOO CHOO mother flippers.

Wrong.

Worst case is Stalker is lynched -> Game ends instantly, town wins, un-masoned traitors lose

[Citrus]

Addendum: Unless, of course, you're town Frog. Because then it's almost always preferable for you to random lynch...

[Citrus]

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

Assuming it's epicmafia rules:

Majority to lynch but everyone has to vote or be modkilled.
No limit to number of players masons can mason

But probably best to wait for PoD's response anyways

[louiswill]

Assuming it's epicmafia rules:

Majority to lynch but everyone has to vote or be modkilled.
No limit to number of players masons can mason

But probably best to wait for PoD's response anyways

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.

[Helz]

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.

I agree.

Obvious observations:
Tracker can identify exact roles (With the exception of Fool)
Mason can re-align the town if kept alive

There are a few ways we could play this but I want to see the N2 kills before making a play. Honestly there is not much conversation but there is also not much to be said. The game is kind of straight forward and its a hard life for a Traitor.

With that said how is everyone doing today? There is a lot of good people in this game. It will be a pleasure to play with you guys.

[louiswill]

Yep. This is as much as my previous SFM.

Except this time, I'm the player.
I won't let the game die, unless everyone choose to get rid of me first.

[Apache]

well i also don't really want to risk lynching the stalker
we should just wait so the stalker can kill some townies
skip

[Vantas]

If so then there will be a mod nuclear, guaranteed.Could you explain what a mod nuclear is? Sorry, I've never played with those before.

@ reply to 9 lynch votes We have the role list, completely confirmed. There is no roles that could multiply votes, like a Mayor. So in theory, yes, but it'd have to be this "mod nuclear" thing, whatever that is.

[Vantas]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

[Citrus]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

He's making it mirror epicmafia. Majority to lynch but no hammer unless everyone votes prior to day end

[powerofdeath]

Ok, I thought my post on page 1 was the last one and I was wrong about that, so you guys are saying there must only be a majority to lynch, yes? If so, why wouldn't he just say "5 to lynch" and then let day keep doing after a lynch has been locked in for other people to get their votes in? That seems BS if you ask me for him to not give an accurate number on who needs to be lynched but hey what do I know.

For a lynch to occur, will we need what was stated at the beginning of day or just a majority?

Majority

[powerofdeath]

No. Pod will calculate the vote at the end of day to lynch. 9 votes to lynch is to prevent day auto end.

How many people can a mason convert?

Someone didn't answer my question.

Yes.
Masons can convert infinity.

[powerofdeath]

If you do not vote by the end of the day, you will be modkilled. If you do not post or vote, I will just replace you instead of modkilling.

[Frog]

Ok, let me put it to you this way.

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (converted to mason)
Mason
Vigilante
Tracker

^This is what our town looks like as of today. A random lynch while Mafia has majority. Understand ALL MAFIA players, we desperately NEED to lynch a townie today. Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal. The point is, the risk of getting our own STALKER is lower than getting a CRITICAL TOWNIE. Also, this just in, if we don't LYNCH A TOWN RIGHT NOW, MAFIA WILL LOSE. I don't know how else to put it. As long as you are still traitor, your goal is still to win with Mafia. Don't play stupid and wait out the clock, let's DO THIS NOW.

Imagine Town KPN at 2: Vigilante will shoot at random, Mason will convert
Imagine Mafia KPN at -1 (at best)

^This is the best case rate of flow. By tomorrow we will most likely have 4 townies vs. 3 Mafia.

Understand traitors, you are still members of mafia, if you have ANY SHOT OF WINNING AS TRAITOR, which would be awesome, you NEED TO LYNCH NOW. Apache and Citrus are most definitely town for skipping. Stalker, these are the people you should be killing. Traitors, these are the people we should be voting for. It's just that simple.

I don't know how much more I have to make this plea, but Today, DAY 2, is our last chance at GLORY for a MAFIA VICTORY.

[Vantas]

Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal. Ok, I need to refute these two, EXTREMELY flawed points you have up. First off, the chance of hitting a HT are 3/9, or 1/3. The chance of hitting a traitor is 4/9. The chance of hitting a traitor is more than hitting HT, why you say chances are, I'm not sure, but it's not true.

Second point, hitting a traitor is a BIIIG deal. If we hit a traitor, it's

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (mason converted)
Mason
Vigil
Tracker

Tracker track - 1/7-1/6th chance of finding Stalker
Stalker stalk - 3/7th chance of finding HT
Mason recruit - 5/7th chance of recruiting
Stalker kill - 4/7-5/7th chance of Town kill
Vig kill - 3/7-5/7th chance of Town kill

That being said, Vigil probably won't kill. And also that being said, it'll most likely be 4-3 if Stalker kills town or 5-2 if Stalker kills mafia. Also, Mason takes one away from Mafia and adds it to town. The fact that you breezed over those is honestly concerning. Otherwise, without a lynch today, it could be 4-4 town kill or 5-3 mafian kill, which looks a LOT less bleak of you ask me.

While I'm not against lynching today, I thought it'd be only fair to point out the inconsistencies here. A no lynch would lead to a chance for Mafian win, and not be so clear cut decisive , as they have the power to be able to check. Wanting that lynch is going to lock in either a certain Mafian loss or still unclear due to the Mason's recruiting power. I'd rather let Stalker use another night to look at the options clearly and hopefully get in a TPR kill before recklessly running in and confirming a Mafian loss.

-vote skip

[Helz]

I disagree. The way this game is setup the mafia is pretty screwed. Every day the mafia has a -2kpn and the lean on a lynch is against the mafia early on. After tomorrow it will probably be advantageous to lynch though.

And I have to vote. so...

Skip

[Vantas]

Skip

I just bolded+made it red last time. So this counts for real I guess XD

[Helz]

Skip

I just bolded+made it red last time. So this counts for real I guess XD

Lol. You sneaky devil!

[Vantas]

Lol. You sneaky devil!Well "Skip" was lowercase so at least there was a hint I didn't do it correctly XD

Ah well at least it's right now. At least this isn't Main mafia that I'm screwing up on XD

[Helz]

Just to throw it out there I bet the Vigi will kill. In his mind all he has to do is hit 1 target to win the game so he probably sees himself as the most valuable asset to the game and everyone else as expendable.

[potledom]

Hey guys, just posting in this before I forget to (have a busy day.) I have played this game on epic mafia all the time. I can help explain the mechanics of how this game normally ends up being when I get home... but basically masons want to mason the fuck out of the traitors to get a town majority and when they do they need to stop masoning because they dont want to hit the stalker. Stalker will want to seem as townie as possible in order to get masoned (almost only way they will win.) There's no point in trying to win as a traitor/mafia team right now because it is very unlikely to happen, everyone will claim traitor and then you most likely will lynch one of your own. Then, masons and town will have a majority and you will have to hope and pray you get masoned... Hope this makes sense. I pretty much explained everything :) Skip

[Vantas]

Hey Pot if you didn't capitalize the "skip" you might want to XD I was looking at the vote count and you're in a different category than the rest of us who skipped for some reason.

[Helz]

I did not even consider if the Stalker gets masoned..

Do win conditions change upon conversion or do they stay the same?

[louiswill]

Alright, it is time for me shoot my victory.

It is a much similar situation to my previous SFM.
So First social problem here is to choose side.
Of course, Traitors is majority here, but no one is bond by their condition toward the end of game.

The setup is balanced, not obviously but it is. Feel free to argue with me if you hold contrary opinion.

Based on that and my own experience of this kind of setup,

My plan is this:
I'm going to reveal. I'm vigilante.
(similar as the monopoly revealed in my SFM, lol.)

And:
We lynch every day a traitor claimer (lol because simply everyone will claim traitor but me).
And I choose to shoot the most suspicious person to me (Most likely the 2nd most voted person)

As soon as we kill the Stalker, I will start to shoot masons.
And all rest of you need to do is to wait to be converted and make sure there will be no lynch by voting a non-majority tie.
If masons want to be full retarded ad convert no one, lynch me and the game ends nobody win. Fair enough.

If I failed to kill stalker, then you guys shall lynch me AFTER you lynched Tracker
.



Most of you after read this post
will very likely ask why would I reveal? What is my intention and such and such. I will stuff your mouth before you insult my intelligence.

Reasons:
There are going to be a massive emerging town masons.
The masons will only decline when they choose stalkers.
Then the people they can convert will be narrowed, eventually they will majority agree to convert stalker and half mason will die.
This cycle will continue, until stalker is dead.
For this cycle to begin with, mason needs 3 members.
Once mason reaches 2n+1, n>=1 members, there is no controllable way to stop them.
So face it, most of you WILL become town.

So,
If I shoot masons too early, I will hand victory to stalker,
If mason convert me, around 80% people will lose the game because mason wasted a night to convert me, delayed to process to lynch stalker early and shoot for the victory.
If I shoot stalker, then we can all sit and wait for victory.
If stalker kill me, then simply make Tracker have a huge advantage on counter claiming Stalker because stalker miss the lead from night of killing action. You guys again can confirm a stalker and lynch him easily. Side with masons in that case.

I do not need to survive, and my victory fit the most scenarios except if retard masons come to convert me.


Conclusion:

I want more KPD/N, so no lynch is bad for me. You are dead Pot.

Potledom

If you survive the lynch at day, I will see you at night.

[louiswill]

I did not even consider if the Stalker gets masoned..

Do win conditions change upon conversion or do they stay the same?

If the win condition doesn't change upon conversion, you will get a bunch of gamethrowing mason members who lynch their own members.

Masons(previous traitor) only win if stalker wins. -- That is what I call Muffinmen.

[louiswill]

Tbh, most original roles do not need to survive is really making the game easy to solve.

[louiswill]

Skip Day (4 [L-5]):
Citrus, Apache, ThinkLiveLife, Vantas

Oh wait, these people should die first, Pot didn't vote.

So Apache.

Apache

[Helz]

I am a traitor. Your plan would have made a ton of sense without the reveal. Because you revealed traitors are in a much better position for a mafia win. I think the game was balanced but if this reveal is not a gambit I am reconsidering my original line of thought..

[Helz]

Yeah. I gave this some thought

[Helz]

So I was planning on going with the mason push. It just made sense with 1 conversion and 1 kill per night with an added miss lynch of traitors. But given Louis's reveal it is now cut down to 1 converson per night (Assuming the rest of the traitors support this logic and jump on board with this)

The traitors are the town. The masons are the cult. And louswill is the scum KPN in my mind.

louiswill

Now there is a few ways this can go.

1. Louiswill could be pulling a gambit. The lynch is bad and traitors have that much more reason to get on board with the mason plan
2. Louiswill is not lying. He is the Vig and we lynch him. The traitors now have an excellent chance.
3. Louiswill is not lying. We fail to gain a majority vote and he shoots me tonight for being the most confirmed traitor. (This is probably the worst case scenario because the stalker will no doubt kill louis tonight and the swing in the game will be as strong tomorrow as it is today.)

This just makes sense to me. I hope others agree and are not shy given that traitors hold a very significant majority.

[potledom]

As soon as we kill the Stalker, I will start to shoot masons.
And all rest of you need to do is to wait to be converted and make sure there will be no lynch by voting a non-majority tie.
If masons want to be full retarded ad convert no one, lynch me and the game ends nobody win. Fair enough.

If I failed to kill stalker, then you guys shall lynch me AFTER you lynched Tracker
. I dont think you understand the mechanics of the game. As soon as the stalker is dead the game is over. The traitors only win if the stalker wins. How I always see it is that traitors are more of a third-party, not aligned with town or mafia, they can convert either way. The traitors are valuable to each side because of numbers. But ya you can't shoot masons when the stalker is dead because the game will be over.

[Helz]

Eyyyyhhhh Kat. I couldn't help but notice there is something wrong with your vote. Check the vote count and you will see what I mean.

[potledom]

Eyyyyhhhh Kat. I couldn't help but notice there is something wrong with your vote. Check the vote count and you will see what I mean.

Thanks, I am still a newbie at this :3 Let's try this again skip

[Apache]

Ok, let me put it to you this way.

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (converted to mason)
Mason
Vigilante
Tracker

^This is what our town looks like as of today. A random lynch while Mafia has majority. Understand ALL MAFIA players, we desperately NEED to lynch a townie today. Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal. The point is, the risk of getting our own STALKER is lower than getting a CRITICAL TOWNIE. Also, this just in, if we don't LYNCH A TOWN RIGHT NOW, MAFIA WILL LOSE. I don't know how else to put it. As long as you are still traitor, your goal is still to win with Mafia. Don't play stupid and wait out the clock, let's DO THIS NOW.

Imagine Town KPN at 2: Vigilante will shoot at random, Mason will convert
Imagine Mafia KPN at -1 (at best)

^This is the best case rate of flow. By tomorrow we will most likely have 4 townies vs. 3 Mafia.

Understand traitors, you are still members of mafia, if you have ANY SHOT OF WINNING AS TRAITOR, which would be awesome, you NEED TO LYNCH NOW. Apache and Citrus are most definitely town for skipping. Stalker, these are the people you should be killing. Traitors, these are the people we should be voting for. It's just that simple.

I don't know how much more I have to make this plea, but Today, DAY 2, is our last chance at GLORY for a MAFIA VICTORY.

this is total crap lol. we would just hit a traitor and the numbers would be even worse. or we even get the stalker. why not just let the stalker do the kill, he won't kill himself at least.
i get a feeling you're town because you're so overzealously trying to look pro traitor, it's incredible. reminds me of varrick the disguiser who tried so hard to make disguiser protections

louiswill
lol stupid plan to reveal as vigi, you didn't get the mechanics at all it seems. with you gone town has no kpn, should be easy for stalker to get rid of the masons and we have also voting majority anyway.
town are the scums in this game, let's lynch him
and if we don't lynch him, what do ya think will happen tonight? stalker will just kill you lol, there's no other logical choice

[Vantas]

Ok, let me put it to you this way.

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (converted to mason)
Mason
Vigilante
Tracker

^This is what our town looks like as of today. A random lynch while Mafia has majority. Understand ALL MAFIA players, we desperately NEED to lynch a townie today. Chances are it will be an IMPORTANT or CRITICAL townie. If we lynch one of OUR OWN by accident, it will most likely just be a TRAITOR, no big deal. The point is, the risk of getting our own STALKER is lower than getting a CRITICAL TOWNIE. Also, this just in, if we don't LYNCH A TOWN RIGHT NOW, MAFIA WILL LOSE. I don't know how else to put it. As long as you are still traitor, your goal is still to win with Mafia. Don't play stupid and wait out the clock, let's DO THIS NOW.

Imagine Town KPN at 2: Vigilante will shoot at random, Mason will convert
Imagine Mafia KPN at -1 (at best)

^This is the best case rate of flow. By tomorrow we will most likely have 4 townies vs. 3 Mafia.

Understand traitors, you are still members of mafia, if you have ANY SHOT OF WINNING AS TRAITOR, which would be awesome, you NEED TO LYNCH NOW. Apache and Citrus are most definitely town for skipping. Stalker, these are the people you should be killing. Traitors, these are the people we should be voting for. It's just that simple.

I don't know how much more I have to make this plea, but Today, DAY 2, is our last chance at GLORY for a MAFIA VICTORY.At first I thought this plan was utter BS, but we have to look at the situation here.

After today (if we lynch)
Stalker
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor
Traitor

Traitor (converted to mason)
Mason
Tracker

Then Tracker has a chance at hitting Stalker, and Mason's most likely going to recruit, and stalker kill. But at that point, it'd be 3-4 best case senerio, or even better if the two masons tried to visit Stalker, which would end up 1-4 even with friendly fire, easy Stalker win. 0-5 if he hits the Tracker. Then since no one would even want to go against Stalker, Stalker could just kill everyone for the win for the remaining traitors and himself.

So that being said, lynching a townie can only mean good, it shows in the numbers.
louiswill

[Helz]

Well we have a majority. Looks like this will be an easy game.

[potledom]

Tracker should keep to themselves until they know that mason has a majority. No reason to do otherwise. As for revealing as vig, it was a very dumb move, it would be understandable later on, but not now. Stalker will kill you now (if we don't lynch you first) so he has ultimate control over who dies at night. But it looks like there is a majority on you so it doesnt really matter.

[powerofdeath]

I did not even consider if the Stalker gets masoned..

Do win conditions change upon conversion or do they stay the same?

Masons who went to convert the stalker, dies instead.

[Bahkieh]

Shiiit so sorry. The one time I got to look at this game I had to leave for work and i just woke up and yeah sorry. Anyways yeah. Very stupid revealing as vigi

louiswill

[Brendan]

skip

[powerofdeath]

DAY IS OVER
LOUISWILL IS LYNCHED! HIS ROLE WAS TRAITOR!
4

[The Godfather]

louiswill has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Skip Day (3 [L-1])Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434430'), potledom ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434570'), Brendan ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434610')
Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10566') (1 [L-3]): Frog ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434448')
louiswill ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/1862') (4 [L-0]): Apache ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434587'), ThinkLiveLife ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434563'), Vantas ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434589'), Bahkieh ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434608')
Apache ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/6033') (1 [L-3]): louiswill ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434539')

[powerofdeath]

Vantas was found dead last night. His role was Mason.

Player List:
3. ThinkLiveLife
4. Potledom
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

7

[Frog]

skip

[Apache]

well one mason down. no vigi kill. i would assume stalker killed mason, because if the mason had visited him there would be another stalker kill.

don't really know what to do, let's just wait this out another night i guess
skip

[Frog]

This is the actual deal:
Mafia is currently overpowered. I'm still a traitor, which is why I didn't give an explanation past "-skip". But I'm YOLOing and IDGAF.

I'm not going to break down the roles list to you because it's depressing, but basically town has already won. If masons successfully converted nights 1 and 2 and tomorrow night, it's GG. Unless of course someone accidentally targets the stalker thinking he is a traitor because he claims traitor publically, in which case Mafia actually has a chance. (o_0) (0_o) (o_0) (0_o)
Town is not going to lynch in fear of lynching a fellow townie, even those that claim traitor (gambit). Mafia is not going to lead a lynch because it would automatically make them suspicious. The only logical play is to 'skip' and hope for the best, whatever team you are on.

The main thing now is relying on night actions. We've already seen how lynching a player with a gambit can go wrong. It's mostly down to luck in securing a victory tonight, but the odds of mafia winning after lynching a traitor yesterday are so unbearably low.

[Helz]

The way I see it that gambit played out for us anyways. Now there is a heavy slant towards the town. I really do not care which side wins. As long as I am on that side. So..

I feel that a role call is in order (IF there are 2 masons alive). This would break the game and the town would win no problem. It would leave us with 4 town, 2 soon to be town, and 1 scum. In that situation the town could not loose. Hitting the stalker would become super easy and masons could preserve victory for all the traitors.

On the down side there is a good chance 1 traitor could get left out in the cold..

Yesterdays vote count.

Skip Day (3 [L-1])Citrus, potledom, Brendan
Citrus (1 [L-3]): Frog
louiswill (4 [L-0]): Apache, ThinkLiveLife, Vantas, Bahkieh
Apache (1 [L-3]): louiswill

If masons kick off this role call its GG. If they do not I think we should use this vote count as a reference for a lynch target. I will give it some time before throwing my 2 cents on a specific lynch target..

[Bahkieh]

Skip

A role call you say? I claim Traitor

[Helz]

Skip

A role call you say? I claim Traitor

Everyone will claim traitor. I only mean a role call can break the game if and only if masons reveal and there is 2 of them.

[Frog]

There should be 3 masons by this point. If they don't reveal, it means mafia still has a chance, and thus won't reveal.

[Frog]

Listen to my broscience and be amazed.

H.S.

[Bahkieh]

Everyone will claim traitor. I only mean a role call can break the game if and only if masons reveal and there is 2 of them.

Yolo still a traitor. Although are we all really traitors. If i was a traitor wouldn't I do the opposite of whatever plan we come up with?

[Brendan]

am traitor
am skip

[Citrus]

skip

[potledom]

There should be 3 masons by this point. If they don't reveal, it means mafia still has a chance, and thus won't reveal.
I believe there are 2 masons right now since one died last night, or am I counting wrong? skip

[Helz]

I believe there are 2 masons right now since one died last night, or am I counting wrong? skip

I agree. There should be 2 unless one of their conversions hit a power role.

Also skipping is kind of bad for traitors. I think a lynch would be more beneficial given the current odds. If the role call is not going to happen here is my line of thinking..

Skip Day (3 [L-1])Citrus, potledom, Brendan
Citrus (1 [L-3]): Frog
louiswill (4 [L-0]): Apache, ThinkLiveLife, Vantas, Bahkieh

Apache, Me, Vantas, and Bahkieh are the most confirmed Traitors because lynching the claimed vigi only makes sense for a stalker/traitor.
The skip day votes have flavors of traitor and flavors of town:
Traitor for Citrus because he placed his vote first thing. I read a "Lets not misslynch a traitor, We have bad odds and no information"
Town for potledom and Brendan because in spite of the reveal they were against a lynch.
Frogs vote is interesting. I am not sure how to read that yet. It could mean quite a few things.

Well with all that said I could probably dig a bit more to shoot for PR reads and all that but I am still pretty indifferent. A lynch would be nice

[Frog]

I believe there are 2 masons right now since one died last night, or am I counting wrong? skip

yes you are right. I didn't want to break down the town roles because it was against mafia odds, but w/e

Stalker
Traitor
Traitor

Mason
Mason
Vigilante
Tracker

Everyone who is claiming traitor. It is unnecessary and frankly unproductive. Please don't claim traitor if you're not really traitor.

The only shot I have at winning are two ways:
1- town visits the stalker (even then I don't see it working out in town favor)
2- I get converted to mason

Anyway. I'm skipping because a day lynch is not even possible for mafia to achieve. But because I'm not rolequitting, and because the odds of lynching a townie are 4/2 (not including myself as the mafia), I have a VERY good chance at lynching a town. Obviously no one is going to join me in the vote unless they truly ARE traitors. Good way to sniff it out for masons to convert at night, etc.

Citrus

I'm staying firm on this. Traitors join me. Fake traitors, join me.

[powerofdeath]

Day end in 21 minutes. Sorry for late delay.

[powerofdeath]

TTL turned into a vegetable. His role was Traitor.

5

[The Godfather]

The day has been skipped! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Skip Day (5 [L-0])Apache ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434790'), Bahkieh ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434824'), Brendan ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434837'), Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434893'), potledom ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434894')
Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10566') (1 [L-4]): Frog ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=434898')

[powerofdeath]

Potledom was found dead last night. His role was Mason.

Player List:
5. Apache
6. Bahkieh
7. Frog
9. Brendan
10. Citrus

Day end when everyone vote. You may vote for No lynch. If you do not vote by 24 hours, you will suicide.
Night end when EVERYONE submit a Night action. You may visit no one. If you do not submit a Night Action by 24 hours, you will suicide.
I will send a reminder to everyone to submit a Night Action beginning of the Night.

5

[Apache]

Well so either there are 2 masons now and another townie and maf lost (convert me in this case plz)
Or there are 2 masons and no other townies in which case we can still win. If thats the case we need to lynch now otherwise it would be 2 on 2 tomorrow (masons convert and if stalker hits mason) and we lose

so in case 1 we lost and have nothing to lose anyway.
so im going with the one whos most likely town bc of votes and his d1 first post
Citrus

[Citrus]

Fyi host, it's pretty bad form to open your day 12 hours or so late, especially when you mod kill a player for not voting by day deadline

[Citrus]

That's not a traitor's perspective Apache. You're talking from a mason's perspective or a stalker's perspective

Stalker if you're not Apache shoot him tonight, masons why haven't you fucking masoned me yet

skip

Actually because I'm a traitor it means you are a random lynching Mason, meaning you have the tracker masoned and know 1 safe Mason target outside of me. You voting me doesn't make sense in any other position, traitors never want to lynch someone before they're masoned and neither does stalker

[Apache]

lol are you dumb? if we dont lynch a mason today, masons win tomorrow.
you're the one talking from mason perspective

[Apache]

unless masons have already won anyway.

[Citrus]

lol are you dumb? if we dont lynch a mason today, masons win tomorrow.
you're the one talking from mason perspective

Wrong. Masons either mismason and lose, or convert a traitor and another traitor wins with them.

You're taking the perspective of someone that CANNOT change alignment anymore (aka mason)

[Apache]

no, if they're 2 atm mason have only 1/3 chance of mismasoning. 2/3 they win. if we dont lynch
see:
2 mason, 2 traitor, stalker => nightkill on mason and masoning
2 mason, 1 traitor, stalker => masons win because control lynch

1 traitor would still lose. i dont want to risk being the one. that's why we lynch mason now:
1 mason, 2 traitor, stalker => nightkill on mason and convert
1 mason, 1 traitor, stalker

then we can just lynch the last mason and win.

only masons would be against a lynch today

[Citrus]

no, if they're 2 atm mason have only 1/3 chance of mismasoning. 2/3 they win. if we dont lynch
see:
2 mason, 2 traitor, stalker => nightkill on mason and masoning
2 mason, 1 traitor, stalker => masons win because control lynch

1 traitor would still lose. i dont want to risk being the one. that's why we lynch mason now:
1 mason, 2 traitor, stalker => nightkill on mason and convert
1 mason, 1 traitor, stalker

then we can just lynch the last mason and win.

only masons would be against a lynch today

Ah. Now I know you're a mason.
Traitors are in auto-win right now, and you use logic from a mason's perspective

[Citrus]

Not lynching, 2 traitors + stalker alive.
Let's say Traitors A, B, and Stalker S.

If masons mason S -> mismason, traitors win with stalker
If masons mason A -> B is in autowin, A has 50/50 win
If masons mason B -> A is in autowin, B has 50/50 win

So traitors have 5/6 win chance with no lynch.

You are still calculating odds/win chance from a mason's perspective

[Apache]

lol.
mason win chance is auto win if no lynch. unless they mason stalker
mason win chance is 0 if mason is lynched.

simple as that. masons probably would abstain. makes me even more certain you're a mason.

"If masons mason A -> B is in autowin, A has 50/50 win"

how does a win then

[Apache]

lol.
mason win chance is auto win if no lynch. unless they mason stalker
mason win chance is 0 if mason is lynched.

simple as that. masons probably would abstain. makes me even more certain you're a mason.

"If masons mason A -> B is in autowin, A has 50/50 win"

how does a win then

na wait, how is b autowin i mean.

[Citrus]

lol.
mason win chance is auto win if no lynch. unless they mason stalker
mason win chance is 0 if mason is lynched.

simple as that. masons probably would abstain. makes me even more certain you're a mason.

"If masons mason A -> B is in autowin, A has 50/50 win"

how does a win then

If you're going to copy what I say, at least give me credit. That's plagiarism

[Apache]

you didnt say that

[Citrus]

na wait, how is b autowin i mean.

2 Masons 1 Traitor 1 Stalker

Traitor skips day, noone gets lynched

Stalker kills Mason
If Masons mason Traitor its 2 v 1 next day
If Masons mason Stalker masons die

Thus Traitor is in autowin final day either way

So it's strictly better as a traitor to no lynch then lynch in 5way. Aka the 2 masons will try to lynch today, traitors and stalker will skip day.
Aka you're probably mason

[Citrus]

you didnt say that

I said I was sure you are mason due to your perspective in your post(s) and you literally just vomited the same line back to me

[Apache]

I said I was sure you are mason due to your perspective in your post(s) and you literally just vomited the same line back to me
i said you're mason first :D

2 Masons 1 Traitor 1 Stalker

Traitor skips day, noone gets lynched

Stalker kills Mason
If Masons mason Traitor its 2 v 1 next day
If Masons mason Stalker masons die

Thus Traitor is in autowin final day either way

So it's strictly better as a traitor to no lynch then lynch in 5way. Aka the 2 masons will try to lynch today, traitors and stalker will skip day.
Aka you're probably mason

hm i see that. but still, if we lynch a mason today it's 100% for traitor AND stalker. i'm pretty sure you're mason so i leave my vote. 100% is better than 5/6
also stalker will surely want to lynch, because if he doesn't he has 2/3 chance of losing even IF he hits a mason tonight
masons will not want to lynch, because if one of them is lynched they lost and if no one is lynched today they have a good chance of 2/3 if stalker hits them

also what makes you so certain mason have no majority yet

[Citrus]

i said you're mason first :D


hm i see that. but still, if we lynch a mason today it's 100% for traitor AND stalker. i'm pretty sure you're mason so i leave my vote. 100% is better than 5/6
also stalker will surely want to lynch, because if he doesn't he has 2/3 chance of losing even IF he hits a mason tonight
masons will not want to lynch, because if one of them is lynched they lost and if no one is lynched today they have a good chance of 2/3 if stalker hits them

also what makes you so certain mason have no majority yet

There is no still. If every role acts to it's optimum in this scenario, a no lynch occurs today BECAUSE the only ones that ever want the lynch are the 2 masons. They have strictly more information than traitors, so it's more likely a non-mason gets lynched BECAUSE they can protect each other AND there are 3 mafia left while 2 town left.

In epicmafia in this scenario of 5 alive, the 2 masons always either push for a lynch or don't. The rest of the living players always push for a skip. Since you're not used to epicmafia you didn't realize this, but you basically outed yourself as a mason by deciding to try to lynch today when you haven't prior to today

[Apache]

only that i'm not a mason.
then why do the masons not vote you, if they would push for a lynch so hard?

[Citrus]

only that i'm not a mason.
then why do the masons not vote you, if they would push for a lynch so hard?

Because noone other than you and me has posted in this thread.

You can thank PoD for starting day late AND not setting a day end time again

[Citrus]

" If you do not vote by 24 hours"

Jk there's a day end time.

1) Wolframalpha link should be available because forum fucks up time zones of posts and I don't actually know when the deadline is
2) Day should be 36 hours to account for day/night cycle getting pushed

[Frog]

TLDR all of it, don't care.

There should be two mafia left. If you are traitor, speak now or forever hold my peen.

Oh that's right, I AM THE ONLY TRAITOR LEFT. Quit it with your wifoming. It's tedious, and not productive.

[Frog]

skip

[Citrus]

Frog is not a mason.

That leaves Bahkieh/Brendan for Stalker + Mason

Let's see which one votes skip and which votes me with you Apache

[Citrus]

Frog is not a mason.

That leaves Bahkieh/Brendan for Stalker + Mason

Let's see which one votes skip and which votes me with you Apache

Hopefully Frog is stalker though because if Bahkieh/Brendan is stalker, then they get modkilled and mafia autoloses this FM

[Apache]

Hopefully Frog is stalker though because if Bahkieh/Brendan is stalker, then they get modkilled and mafia autoloses this FM

pod won't modkill the stalker. or why you think he waited 12h to start day

[Frog]

It's not in the rules of the setup, but just don't insinuate or discuss our game mod's actions if it's not in green. It's starting to border on personal and I personally don't want to see PoD driven away.

[Citrus]

Fair enough, I apologize if I was rude with my comments.

[powerofdeath]

No post = replacement
No vote = modkill

Brendan and Bahkieh is replaced.
2

[The Godfather]

The day has been skipped! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Skip Day (2 [L-0])Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=435053'), Frog ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=435088')
Citrus ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/member.php/10566') (1 [L-1]): Apache ('http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php?p=435030')

[powerofdeath]

Ika is replacing Bahkieh, Slaol is replacing Brendan

[powerofdeath]

Apache and Frog was found dead. They were both masons.

The Mafia has won!

Citrus - Stalker
Vantas - Head Mason
Apache - Vigilante converted Night 2
Potledom - Tracker converted Night 3
Frog - Traitor converted Night 4
Tonex - Fool
Slaol - Traitor
Ika - Traitor
Louiswill - Traitor
ThinkLiveLife - Traitor

Congratulation to Citrus, Louiswill, Slaol, and Ika!

[Vantas]

Oh my god we really had the worst luck with recruiting XD It wasn't even funny.

Well good game all! ^-^

[Helz]

Gg it was fun guys

[louiswill]

exactly same approach as my own sfm. lol

...and look those who voted me, lol ALL DEAD or AFK.

I voted Pot, and fished apache and vanta, 3 towns one day, woohoo.

Did you guys went to convert citrus?

I vote Citrus VIP for saving my last laugh.
citrus

[Vantas]

I honestly disagree that you fished out apache and I that day. We both voted you, but for reasons that made sense in the terms of traitors. Well, at least I know I did. If anything, I was killed night two for being the only one to rationalize out everything with numbers. If it weren't for the fact that we converted our own town each time, this game would of easily been our win. Except then there was the two masons trying to recruit Citrus. And you had no idea that I was Mason, or you would of said something. And as for pot, you retracted your vote as soon as you put it down because she hadn't skipped day like the rest of us. I didn't vote you because of your BS Vigil plan (though that's what made me think you were stalker), I voted you because you revealed Vigil, and obviously other traitors agreed. Half the game, that is. More traitors than town voted you for your reveal, so if your own wanted you out, you must of made a wrong turn somewhere if you ask me.

Sorry for mini rant but that last post really irked me ^^"

[louiswill]

Of course you would vote base on traitor's term, in fact, everyone will do the same, but me.
It is exactly why it works and how you should agree with me.

I fake claimed vigilante, so the real vigilante will know that I'm faked, if mason converted vigilante, then it is even better!

Once I flip traitor then stalker will know there are a higher percentage those people who voted me being town than those who did not.

The different of normal traitors and town is here, town is slightly more active than traitors.
Thus, I give town a good excuse to vote, town will vote.
This is one phenomenon that just can not be helped.

I'm glad the stalker indeed attacking the right person.

The bet is not that simple though,

I flip traitor will benefit stalker thus I'm on the winning side because I were dead without convertion, but if I were not lynched, then I would benefit from town.
It is not a victory strategy but it is very promising.

[Slaol]

Guys, I won without ever posting. I am the best.

[louiswill]

Guys, I won without ever posting. I am the best.

You are da God. We don't vote da god to be the best, because it is inarguable.:smile:

[Apache]

Well i should have trusted my d1 read of citrus being stalker. But i kind of didnt want to recruit the afk guys, i wanted to see the replacements posting first. I hoped citrus would be ok and that it would be easier to choose from the
replacements once they posted. But our chances were slim anyway at this point, just 1/3
so the mistake was the shit that happened before, recruiting me and the tracker.

oh and its true citrus i wanted to lynch u to win and it would have worker out, but frog left me alone :'(

[louiswill]

your chance is slim because you converted both vigi and tracker. I also hoped if I died then town will not reveal because my example were put first.

But you should always convert slaol. lol.

[powerofdeath]

http://powerofdeathx.freeforums.org/mason-night-chat-f14.html

night chat

[Citrus]

Well i should have trusted my d1 read of citrus being stalker. But i kind of didnt want to recruit the afk guys, i wanted to see the replacements posting first. I hoped citrus would be ok and that it would be easier to choose from the
replacements once they posted. But our chances were slim anyway at this point, just 1/3
so the mistake was the shit that happened before, recruiting me and the tracker.

oh and its true citrus i wanted to lynch u to win and it would have worker out, but frog left me alone :'(

I know haha. But I've played this a ton in epicmafia and I played all my day posts from a Traitor's perspective.

It's a shame we had 2 afk replacements at the end, which probably played an impact in the final night's masoning. Due to this I'm voting:

skip

for MVP

Louiswill, in my opinion it strictly hurts the mafia team when you get lynched early as a traitor. Thus also hurting your chance at winning if you get lynched. Any reads drawn from your lynch can be made by stalker AND masons.

Also fuck killing the fool N1, it's so much more fun when noone knows where the fool is.

[Helz]

I totally fucked up not doing an action. Sorry guys. Somehow I thought I had already voted to skip.

[louiswill]

No lynch = no read
My lynch definitely helped mafia more than damage.

Distortion on coversion
Taking out vigilant
Taking out tracker
Are three key play.

Of course you can do it blindly, but read is more helpful and thus important.

I rather think TLL modkill damage mafia more, though he did not intend to do so.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using Tapatalk 2

[Citrus]

Yeah loss of traitor hurts a lot in here because it reduces nights necessary for masons by 1

[ika]

nobody for mvp

game was basicly 99% skip and wait.

[Citrus]

nobody for mvp

game was basicly 99% skip and wait.

Isn't that what vote skip is (noone for mvp)?

[louiswill]

Join my host http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/26853-3rd-Host-of-Crisis

Lets start a new round of the feast while watching HISHE MFM