Town of Salem is back in business

[BlankMediaGames]

Hello everyone!

I am the co-founder of BlankMediaGames and I am pleased to announce the creation of our stand alone Mafia video game called Town of Salem. It is currently in alpha testing and we are getting ready to launch our kickstarter. Dark Revenant wants to make sure the discussion of this game stays within this thread.

Before everyone starts asking questions that were answered in our thread of 6 months ago, go check it out: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/20379-Town-Of-Salem-Kickstarter

Here is our tech demo video (ignore kickstarter instructions): http://goo.gl/9WQV8Y

Follow us on facebook: http://goo.gl/TUIbbM
and on twitter: https://twitter.com/TownOfSalemGame

Stay up to date and get news on the games kickstarter progress. Feel free to post any questions in this thread and I will answer them.
Thanks everyone and have fun playing Mafia!

[Bruno]

Not investing this time.

[BlankMediaGames]

Well thats too Bad Bruno, we already have an investor backing us for $5000 so we aren't completely relying on the Kickstarter to get the game done but more money means more features and more polish. We hope that when you see the kickstarter youll come around :)

[Orpz]

yay

[Aldaris]

I have a few questions.

1. What differentiates mechanics-wise town of salem vs sc2 mafia?
2. Are you going to implement any features from epic mafia?
3. How will games be played? Will there be a lobby leader like in sc2 mafia or something elae?

[Mateo]

Well thats too Bad Bruno, we already have an investor backing us for $5000 so we aren't completely relying on the Kickstarter to get the game done but more money means more features and more polish. We hope that when you see the kickstarter youll come around :)

What polish? The interface is simple text and buttons. Graphics are completely aesthetic

[BlankMediaGames]

yay

1.) First, we have two new roles (the retributionist and the medium) which offer new mechanics with the game involving the graveyard which will give players who have died more incentive to stay around and finish the game. This will not be the last of the new roles that we add, we will continue updating and adding new roles to the game.

Secondly, Citizens and Detectives have been removed. Detectives are very similar to Lookouts but had a weaker ability and the Citizens were not exciting to play. We understand that some people may not support this decision but we feel it will improve the gameplay.

Bodyguards now have one bulletproof vest which helps during the first night when noone knows who anyone else is. It sucks to defend a Mafia member from a serial killer and forfeit your life.
For a similar reason Doctors have been given one self heal. They can choose to use this on night one when they aren't sure who to protect or they can save the self heal for when they out themselves as the towns doctor (and are most likely to be attacked that night).

The Jester can choose who they want to kill among their guilty voters instead of having it be random. It's just more fun to choose who dies :)

2) We have only played a few games of epic mafia. Are there any particular features you would like to see implemented?

3) Since we aren't going through SC2 there is no "double lobby" scenario. We have one lobby at the start where the roles list can be chosen. There will be a lobby leader that chooses which roles to add to the roles list for the game.

Additionally we have houses in this game with customization options and different towns as well. You don't have to keep looking at the same zone/town every time.

[Bruno]

1.) First, we have two new roles (the retributionist and the medium) which offer new mechanics with the game involving the graveyard which will give players who have died more incentive to stay around and finish the game. This will not be the last of the new roles that we add, we will continue updating and adding new roles to the game.

Secondly, Citizens and Detectives have been removed. Detectives are very similar to Lookouts but had a weaker ability and the Citizens were not exciting to play. We understand that some people may not support this decision but we feel it will improve the gameplay.

Bodyguards now have one bulletproof vest which helps during the first night when noone knows who anyone else is. It sucks to defend a Mafia member from a serial killer and forfeit your life.
For a similar reason Doctors have been given one self heal. They can choose to use this on night one when they aren't sure who to protect or they can save the self heal for when they out themselves as the towns doctor (and are most likely to be attacked that night).

The Jester can choose who they want to kill among their guilty voters instead of having it be random. It's just more fun to choose who dies :)

2) We have only played a few games of epic mafia. Are there any particular features you would like to see implemented?

3) Since we aren't going through SC2 there is no "double lobby" scenario. We have one lobby at the start where the roles list can be chosen. There will be a lobby leader that chooses which roles to add to the roles list for the game.

Additionally we have houses in this game with customization options and different towns as well. You don't have to keep looking at the same zone/town every time.

No citizens? How are detectives anything LIKE lookouts? You mean investigators? Detectives get pairing, requires more DETECTIVE WORK, instead of being investigator and getting an instant confirmation.

On a scale of 1 to 10, please select your casual level here:

Also, is ThinkLiveLife your anonymous 5 grand donor? Is he doing it in exchange for moderator? Don't trust him.

[oops_ur_dead]

Secondly, Citizens ... have been removed.

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/535/544/4fe.png

[Mugy]

1.) First, we have two new roles (the retributionist and the medium) which offer new mechanics with the game involving the graveyard which will give players who have died more incentive to stay around and finish the game. This will not be the last of the new roles that we add, we will continue updating and adding new roles to the game.

Secondly, Citizens and Detectives have been removed. Detectives are very similar to Lookouts but had a weaker ability and the Citizens were not exciting to play. We understand that some people may not support this decision but we feel it will improve the gameplay.

Bodyguards now have one bulletproof vest which helps during the first night when noone knows who anyone else is. It sucks to defend a Mafia member from a serial killer and forfeit your life.
For a similar reason Doctors have been given one self heal. They can choose to use this on night one when they aren't sure who to protect or they can save the self heal for when they out themselves as the towns doctor (and are most likely to be attacked that night).

The Jester can choose who they want to kill among their guilty voters instead of having it be random. It's just more fun to choose who dies :)

You are going to be ridiculed so much for this...

[ika]

need lightkeeper.

unfortunately, need citizens or game is just mass role call it has been statistically proven without citizens a mass roll call will result in town wins about every time

[Slaol]

You are going to be ridiculed so much for this...

Nah, who needs balance?

Do Doctors still have the option to self heal?

[ika]

Nah, who needs balance?

Do Doctors still have the option to self heal?



For a similar reason Doctors have been given one self heal. They can choose to use this on night one when they aren't sure who to protect or they can save the self heal for when they out themselves as the towns doctor (and are most likely to be attacked that night).


...

[BlankMediaGames]

I see you guys have alot to say about the citizens subject haha. If it becomes a problem it won't be any work to add them back in but we are trying this out. Maybe you are right and we need them, that will come up in beta testing.

The 5k investor won't be getting any benefits in-game or on the website/forums so don't worry about that :)

[BlankMediaGames]

The website is back up! We also created some Forums for people to post on as well. Feel free to check them out: www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/ We aren't trying to steal people away but we don't want to flood these forums with questions about the game and stuff.

The alpha should be back up sometime this weekend, hopefully by the end of the day. You'll be able to play it at our website: www.blankmediagames.com

[Bruno]

Nah, who needs balance?

Do Doctors still have the option to self heal?

svrvivor

[Aldaris]

@BlankMediaGames

Thanks for your reply.

1. Your initial ideas seem fine and can be tested.
2. In my opinion, The best parts about EpicMafia that SC2 Mafia does not have are the following

a. Members of the same team but not in chat

Epic Mafia has a few interesting roles such as Traitor and Hitman. Traitor wins with the Mafia, but does not participate in Mafia meetings, otherwise they are like a Citizen. Hitman is a member of the mafia and can kill 1 person at night, but does no participate in Night Chat. If you created the game with the idea of variable night chats in mind, that is to say, there were options to make Veterans, Vigilanes, etc. in Town Night chat, or only Consiglieres and Godfathers in the Mafia chat. There's a lot of potential for really dynamic setups involving teams within and without night chat beyond SC2 Mafia's basic implementation

b. Unlike SC2 Mafia, Epic Mafia has items. Gunsmiths can hand out guns to other people and use them like a vigilante. Blacksmiths can hand out vests to other people and use them like a survivor. Items imply more possibilities and more mechanics for roles. Which means people can do something other than just 1 thing at night (or day).

3. You should keep the best parts of SC2 Mafia though, the options, and the Opportunity for randomness, implement role weights as well as Custom Random Slots as described here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/25670-Custom-Random-The-Final-Key-to-Allowing-Dynamic-Setups)

4. Your Forum registration doesn't work! It never emails you back.

[Slaol]

I see you guys have alot to say about the citizens subject haha. If it becomes a problem it won't be any work to add them back in but we are trying this out. Maybe you are right and we need them, that will come up in beta testing.

The 5k investor won't be getting any benefits in-game or on the website/forums so don't worry about that :)

It won't come up if you're going into beta testing assuming that your product isn't garbage. It wasn't added last time we mentioned it, and you've clearly thrown all interest in balance out the window. You said you think removal of Citizen will improve gameplay, but that no one would use them anyway. How is removing something no one would use beneficial to gameplay? You're removing something that you are stating is a non-factor. Clearly you don't understand the root of Mafia or what makes it a game and merely want to create an overly buffed zombie version of the game. I would vomit in disgust if it didn't mean losing the delicious buffalo wild wings I've just eaten.

[Aldaris]

Slaol,

If they want to test no Citizen, let them test no Citizen. The basic Citizen is literally the easiest role to implement. I would say if anything you have a slavish devotion to your preconceptions of what mafia is, which really blinds you to all the fun variants it can encompass.

[Slaol]

Slaol,

If they want to test no Citizen, let them test no Citizen. The basic Citizen is literally the easiest role to implement. I would say if anything you have a slavish devotion to your preconceptions of what mafia is, which really blinds you to all the fun variants it can encompass.

I proudly acknowledge that my opinion of the game is different from the masses. Even still, I have at every turn attempted to add more to the game. Kidnapper+Beguiler+Agent+Witch Doctor, as well as the Triad additions came from me with the goal being ONLY to enhance the potential versions of setups. Even with the clusterfucks of Marshall and Crier I did my best to balance so they were not breaking. Feel free to limit yourself to strictly things from over a year ago and tell me how the potential variants changes.

Now, let's look at yours. You are aware that the masses hate your concepts of 'fun variants' with a pretty burning passion and that the best thing to come to the game recently generates Citizens mid game, yes?
Aldaris setups are just about the #1 cause of leave trains.

Town of Salem looks like someone that has no idea where he is coming from. You have to understand where you are coming from to successfully go forward.

[AppleyNO]

Please keep your discussion relevant to Town of Salem.

[BlankMediaGames]

@BlankMediaGames

Thanks for your reply.

1. Your initial ideas seem fine and can be tested.
2. In my opinion, The best parts about EpicMafia that SC2 Mafia does not have are the following

a. Members of the same team but not in chat

Epic Mafia has a few interesting roles such as Traitor and Hitman. Traitor wins with the Mafia, but does not participate in Mafia meetings, otherwise they are like a Citizen. Hitman is a member of the mafia and can kill 1 person at night, but does no participate in Night Chat. If you created the game with the idea of variable night chats in mind, that is to say, there were options to make Veterans, Vigilanes, etc. in Town Night chat, or only Consiglieres and Godfathers in the Mafia chat. There's a lot of potential for really dynamic setups involving teams within and without night chat beyond SC2 Mafia's basic implementation

b. Unlike SC2 Mafia, Epic Mafia has items. Gunsmiths can hand out guns to other people and use them like a vigilante. Blacksmiths can hand out vests to other people and use them like a survivor. Items imply more possibilities and more mechanics for roles. Which means people can do something other than just 1 thing at night (or day).

3. You should keep the best parts of SC2 Mafia though, the options, and the Opportunity for randomness, implement role weights as well as Custom Random Slots as described here (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/25670-Custom-Random-The-Final-Key-to-Allowing-Dynamic-Setups)

4. Your Forum registration doesn't work! It never emails you back.


1.) Thanks for your support. We understand that some things we try will not work out but that will not keep us from trying new and different things.

2.) We will be sure to explore all possible avenues for interesting game mechanics. Even after our release we will continue updating the game, adding new features and roles.

3.) We currently have the ability to create that randomness that everyone who loves Mafia games are used to and appreciate. Things like a role in the role list being a random towns member, random mafia, etc. That randomness is one of the reasons why we think the game might work without the use of citizens.

4.) We will look into that right away! Thanks for bringing that to our attention.

[BlankMediaGames]

... you've clearly thrown all interest in balance out the window.

Balance in the game is our number one concern. If something turns out to be over or underpowered we will be sure to tune the roles. We want to make sure the experience is enjoyable for Mafia veterans and newbies alike.

[Slaol]

We want to make sure the experience is enjoyable for Mafia veterans and newbies alike.

You're doing a really bad job at this. You might establish newbies that can't perceive the game, but I played 1 game back when your game was first announced and it is infinitely impossible to balance. You think the addition of randoms will make up for Citizen, but what you don't seem to grasp is how power role numbers work together. Any game that has more Town Power Roles than Evil Power Roles is heavily slanted for Town. As of right now you have given Town the advantage in 100% of games, and then taken it from that point and given certain already impactful roles even more power.
As well, use of the graveyard is vile and immediately breaks balance further. Please find your way through our Mafia Discussion forum to see argument after argument explaining why this idea is bordering on the shittiest in recorded history.

This is what I think of Town of Salem's balance: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/756/5-ever.jpg

[Frog]

I'm just very confused...

What aspects of the product are you focusing on?

What is your business model?

What is your experience with creating games?

I don't want to seem like a downer, but I don't see growth in this sector. I don't see focus on balance. And I don't see experience in creating custom card games. Are you planning on making up for all of this with graphics? I would totally play if the graphics are insane.

[Slaol]

Actually, this depiction of the SuperBowl this year more accurately describes the balance: http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3923853/linecollapse.gif

[Orpz]

Balance.
http://sideshowsito.com/hulk_smash_loki.gif

[Frog]

Balance

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v629/JohnnyDA/michelle-jenneke_zps9dc1e6ea.gif

[Mateo]

if dr could make mafia in high school why do u need 5k+ to make this

[BlankMediaGames]

I'm just very confused...

What aspects of the product are you focusing on?

What is your business model?

What is your experience with creating games?

I don't want to seem like a downer, but I don't see growth in this sector. I don't see focus on balance. And I don't see experience in creating custom card games. Are you planning on making up for all of this with graphics? I would totally play if the graphics are insane.

We are making a game that will show passion for Mafia-style games. The biggest things we are focusing on are the ease of access so people don't have to buy SC2 to play a game of Mafia online, allowing heavy customization of your Mafia game and doing things that other Mafia games don't currently have. That last part may mean we go through phases of testing where things don't work but that's okay. That why we test. :)

Our business model is be very similar to League of Legends if you have ever played that game. We will offer cosmetic effects from a shop that you can buy. The game will be free to play and you will never have to buy anything if you don't want to.

My co-creator and I were professional game developers for a largish company and while it was a great experience we didn't feel the passion that comes from making something that you really want to play. Something that you want to create because you want it.

I understand your concern. While it may seem like there isn't much to be had from a game like this at first glance, many people have never heard of or played Mafia-style games because of certain restrictions. Such as needed to get together 15 friends to play the game at a party or having to purchase SC2 to play the Mafia mod. We believe, like most people, that graphics don't make a game. They certainly help with the initial appeal but the fun comes from the game mechanics themselves and we hope to deliver that.

[BlankMediaGames]

if dr could make mafia in high school why do u need 5k+ to make this

Instead of creating a game as a mod in a pre-built engine, we have a stand-alone version of this game created with an engine we created from scratch. The cost of art is also something that a SC2 Mod doesn't have to think about. The reason why we did this was to have a browser-based game that wouldn't require you to download, install or pay for anything. You just get on and play.

[Bruno]

We are making a game that will show passion for Mafia-style games. The biggest things we are focusing on are the ease of access so people don't have to buy SC2 to play a game of Mafia online, allowing heavy customization of your Mafia game and doing things that other Mafia games don't currently have. That last part may mean we go through phases of testing where things don't work but that's okay. That why we test. :)

Our business model is be very similar to League of Legends if you have ever played that game. We will offer cosmetic effects from a shop that you can buy. The game will be free to play and you will never have to buy anything if you don't want to.

My co-creator and I were professional game developers for a largish company and while it was a great experience we didn't feel the passion that comes from making something that you really want to play. Something that you want to create because you want it.

I understand your concern. While it may seem like there isn't much to be had from a game like this at first glance, many people have never heard of or played Mafia-style games because of certain restrictions. Such as needed to get together 15 friends to play the game at a party or having to purchase SC2 to play the Mafia mod. We believe, like most people, that graphics don't make a game. They certainly help with the initial appeal but the fun comes from the game mechanics themselves and we hope to deliver that.

BAHAHAHAHHA

PASSION FOR MAFIA-STYLE GAMES MINUS CITIZENS, DOCTORS WHO CAN SELF HEAL, AND A MISSING DETECTIVE ROLE

[Frog]

We are making a game that will show passion for Mafia-style games. The biggest things we are focusing on are the ease of access so people don't have to buy SC2 to play a game of Mafia online, allowing heavy customization of your Mafia game and doing things that other Mafia games don't currently have. That last part may mean we go through phases of testing where things don't work but that's okay. That why we test. :)

Our business model is be very similar to League of Legends if you have ever played that game. We will offer cosmetic effects from a shop that you can buy. The game will be free to play and you will never have to buy anything if you don't want to.

My co-creator and I were professional game developers for a largish company and while it was a great experience we didn't feel the passion that comes from making something that you really want to play. Something that you want to create because you want it.

I understand your concern. While it may seem like there isn't much to be had from a game like this at first glance, many people have never heard of or played Mafia-style games because of certain restrictions. Such as needed to get together 15 friends to play the game at a party or having to purchase SC2 to play the Mafia mod. We believe, like most people, that graphics don't make a game. They certainly help with the initial appeal but the fun comes from the game mechanics themselves and we hope to deliver that.

Thank for taking the time to respond. I'll give it a look, however I would highly heed the game play criticisms the SC2 mafia community is suggesting.

[Aldaris]

Thank for taking the time to respond. I'll give it a look, however I would highly heed the game play criticisms the SC2 mafia community is suggesting.

I'm sure the team does. They've already based their engine on SC2 Mafia which shows they like it. The problem with posts like Bruno's and Slaol's is that they're ignorant and show no understanding of the concept of testing. Will a 1 time self healing doctor or a 1 time Bodyguard vest be gamebreaking? I don't know, you don't know, and nobody knows until it's properly tested. I mean these over the top criticisms of variants that NO ONE HERE HAS EXPERIMENTED WITH really show how childish and ignorant some members of this community can be.

[oops_ur_dead]

Also why do I need to log in with my Facebook account? There's no reason for that.

[Apocist]

Also why do I need to log in with my Facebook account? There's no reason for that.

That's one reason Apo has never even attempted to play it.

[AppleyNO]

Look, I think ToS can use a lot of balance tweaks and I would rather not see facebook implementation, but it is in Alpha.

Alpha games are supposed to have terribad balance because Alpha testing is more mechanical testing then balancing.
However, I do think its a mistake to not take advantage of the years of balance testing Sc2Mafia and Sc2mafia.com Forum Mafia has naturally produced into your game.

Please let us know when you get the game up and running.


I'm sure the team does. They've already based their engine on SC2 Mafia which shows they like it. The problem with posts like Bruno's and Slaol's is that they're ignorant and show no understanding of the concept of testing. Will a 1 time self healing doctor or a 1 time Bodyguard vest be gamebreaking? I don't know, you don't know, and nobody knows until it's properly tested. I mean these over the top criticisms of variants that NO ONE HERE HAS EXPERIMENTED WITH really show how childish and ignorant some members of this community can be.

Aldaris, as a friend of Slaol, I wish that you take the "no concept of testing" statement back. He is singlehandly responsible several roles designs and testing, and without him we wouldn't have anything past the Cultist, including the SoTD.

[Aldaris]

Aldaris, as a friend of Slaol, I wish that you take the "no concept of testing" statement back. He is singlehandly responsible several roles designs and testing, and without him we wouldn't have anything past the Cultist, including the SoTD.
If he's helped and been good with testing in the past, great, good for him and his contributions to the community. His recent posts do not indicate this. I'll respond to some of his recent quotes below.


You might establish newbies that can't perceive the game, but I played 1 game back when your game was first announced and it is infinitely impossible to balance.
1 game tested is hardy a test or scientific.


You think the addition of randoms will make up for Citizen, but what you don't seem to grasp is how power role numbers work together. Any game that has more Town Power Roles than Evil Power Roles is heavily slanted for Town. As of right now you have given Town the advantage in 100% of games, and then taken it from that point and given certain already impactful roles even more power.
This assumes a 9 3 3 save. Maybe the balance will change and 8 4 2 will be better. Maybe it won't. Again, this statement has a lot of assumptions in it that is unverified.


As well, use of the graveyard is vile and immediately breaks balance further. Please find your way through our Mafia Discussion forum to see argument after argument explaining why this idea is bordering on the shittiest in recorded history. Forum discussions are not testing. We'll have to see what gets implemented and actually test it scientifically in several games.

I can't speak on the past, but when I see these kind of posts and childishness and posting image gifs, it lends me to my previous conclusion.

[Slaol]

If he's helped and been good with testing in the past, great, good for him and his contributions to the community. His recent posts do not indicate this.

You want to take a few posts on a forum, in a thread occupied by people with horrendous opinions, as worth more than actual additions to the game? Jesus christ I'm glad you're here to save us from our blind slavish devotion to the thing we've been doing a lot longer than you.
Why does anyone know who you are? Oh yea, something added to the game under my stead.
They can test whatever they want their product will just be shit if they maintain these atrocious ideas and a mentality that uses shockingly shallow understandings of roles to finalize decisions. Can they remove Detective? Sure. Is Detective actually like Lookout in any way in terms of it's impact to the game? Not even remotely. I bet they'd be a fan of Channeler.

I'll take my complaints elsewhere from now on, this thread isn't gonna go anywhere i'm fairly sure. T'was fun though.

[Aldaris]

Why does anyone know who you are? Oh yea, something added to the game under my stead. Thanks for the SOTD suggestion. It was a good one in my opinion.


They can test whatever they want their product will just be shit if they maintain these atrocious ideas and a mentality that uses shockingly shallow understandings of roles to finalize decisions.
Who said anything about finalizing anything? This is an alpha test for a game. The key takeaway is this.

1. You might be right or wrong about various mechanical decisions, but we don't really know for sure until we actually test it in a game.

2. There's no reason to assume that the devs won't change something if testing seems to indicate a certain item is too much or too little

3. Even if the Devs didn't change something that was somehow provably unbalanced against some metric, all that would mean is that setups might differ slightly to make using that role more balanced, and/or setups might exclude the unbalanced role

[BlankMediaGames]

Thank for taking the time to respond. I'll give it a look, however I would highly heed the game play criticisms the SC2 mafia community is suggesting.

We are definitely taking into account all suggestions on this forum. It will take some time to test our changes and if they don't work we will begin integrating the changes recommended by the SC2 community.


Also why do I need to log in with my Facebook account? There's no reason for that.

From the last kickstarter we learned how many people are Facebook adverse. We are going to implement our own login system so that Facebook will be entirely optional.


This assumes a 9 3 3 save. Maybe the balance will change and 8 4 2 will be better. Maybe it won't. Again, this statement has a lot of assumptions in it that is unverified.

This is another reason we feel that balancing a game like this is very subjective. If town roles are more powerful now then perhaps creating a game with 1 more mafia member and 1 less town member will balance things out. It will take some testing to see if that works out or not. During our Beta phase we will be continuously testing the game and if something appears to be too strong, such as the town role changes, then it can be adjusted. Nothing is 100% yet in the game. We are still in a state of flux.

[AppleyNO]

From the last kickstarter we learned how many people are Facebook adverse. We are going to implement our own login system so that Facebook will be entirely optional.

Yay

[Numbertwo]

Yay

slaol likes this

[Slaol]

slaol likes this

He actually does. The facebook mechanic wasn't good, and i'm glad to see they plan on making it an option and not mandatory.

[BlankMediaGames]

It should be said though that the login system will be something the Kickstarter will fund. So don't expect to see the new login system when the alpha comes back up. It will be a beta feature. Sorry guys to get your hopes up :(

[Bruno]

It should be said though that the login system will be something the Kickstarter will fund. So don't expect to see the new login system when the alpha comes back up. It will be a beta feature. Sorry guys to get your hopes up :(

Why does the Kickstarter need to fund that? It's not like the game engine or art is too sophisticated to be paid for with some money left. Sounds like a cash grab.

[BlankMediaGames]

The game is now live for alpha testing! Go play and give us feedback on the forums:

www.blankmediagames.com/townofsalem

Forums:
www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb

[oops_ur_dead]

It should be said though that the login system will be something the Kickstarter will fund. So don't expect to see the new login system when the alpha comes back up. It will be a beta feature. Sorry guys to get your hopes up :(

That doesn't sound very right. It would take 2 seconds to set up a login system especially given that you have phpBB already in place and you can use its API to login.

[Bruno]

That doesn't sound very right. It would take 2 seconds to set up a login system especially given that you have phpBB already in place and you can use its API to login.

Scam artists.

[BlankMediaGames]

That doesn't sound very right. It would take 2 seconds to set up a login system especially given that you have phpBB already in place and you can use its API to login.

The forums and the game database aren't related. We could possibly jerry-rig something that might resemble a login system, not sure how well that would work though. The reason this will be a beta feature isn't that it is necessarily hard but that we just don't have money to continue development on the game full time, pay artists, pay for marketing, etc. Without large investors, we aren't able to quit our day jobs to work on this as much as we want to. Hopefully we will get funded on kickstarter so we can finish the game, polish, test and balance in only a couple of months since we can go at it full time. Most indie developers are in a similar situation.

[Bruno]

The forums and the game database aren't related. We could possibly jerry-rig something that might resemble a login system, not sure how well that would work though. The reason this will be a beta feature isn't that it is necessarily hard but that we just don't have money to continue development on the game full time, pay artists, pay for marketing, etc. Without large investors, we aren't able to quit our day jobs to work on this as much as we want to. Hopefully we will get funded on kickstarter so we can finish the game, polish, test and balance in only a couple of months since we can go at it full time. Most indie developers are in a similar situation.

You need artists(NOTICE THE PLURAL S) for this game? What? And what marketing is there to do? Isn't this game free?

[oops_ur_dead]

The forums and the game database aren't related. We could possibly jerry-rig something that might resemble a login system, not sure how well that would work though. The reason this will be a beta feature isn't that it is necessarily hard but that we just don't have money to continue development on the game full time, pay artists, pay for marketing, etc. Without large investors, we aren't able to quit our day jobs to work on this as much as we want to. Hopefully we will get funded on kickstarter so we can finish the game, polish, test and balance in only a couple of months since we can go at it full time. Most indie developers are in a similar situation.

Of course the forum and game databases aren't related, but you can add something into the server that does SQL queries to verify a phpBB login. It's like a 5 minute job to fix an enormous issue.

[BlankMediaGames]

Of course the forum and game databases aren't related, but you can add something into the server that does SQL queries to verify a phpBB login. It's like a 5 minute job to fix an enormous issue.

That may be true, I will have to consult my co-founder and get his opinion on the topic. If it really is as easy as that, you can be sure that we will put that in ASAP.

[Slaol]

The game is now live for alpha testing! Go play and give us feedback on the forums:

www.blankmediagames.com/townofsalem

Forums:
www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb

Looking through it I have a legitimate, non-rage, question. What would you say is the goal of the Transporter (Bus Driver) role in a game? What is the player trying to achieve by utilization of his ability? Also, if you would like, extend this question to Escort.

[Mateo]

what kinda stock options does dell offer its employees? or do u have to work there at least 6 months

[Apocist]

what kinda stock options does dell offer its employees? or do u have to work there at least 6 months

Huh? Derailed thread?

[Bruno]

Hahaha oh my God. Apo, you wouldn't understand.

[Apocist]

Hahaha oh my God. Apo, you wouldn't understand.

No Apo supposes he wouldn't...... He doesn't like being left out...

[J]

what kinda stock options does dell offer its employees? or do u have to work there at least 6 months

Investing in it again? lol

[BlankMediaGames]

Looking through it I have a legitimate, non-rage, question. What would you say is the goal of the Transporter (Bus Driver) role in a game? What is the player trying to achieve by utilization of his ability? Also, if you would like, extend this question to Escort.

The Transporter is best utilized when he swaps a confirmed town power role (sheriff, doctor, etc) with someone that he deems to be suspicious. If an evil role would attempt to kill this confirmed role then the attack would instead be swapped to the person deemed suspicious. It is a great way to protect your fellow town members. This is of course a double edged sword however. If a vigilante would try to shoot the suspicious person he would instead kill your confirmed town role on accident. The Transporter also must pay special attention to who they swap each night as this may throw off investigative roles and get a fellow town member lynched on accident.

The Escort is most effectively utilized by role blocking the Godfather or other mafia power roles. This can prevent the mafia from being able to kill at night as well as give the Escort a clue as to who the Godfather might be. If the Escort role blocks someone and there are no deaths that night then there is a chance it was the Godfather or Mafioso that they role blocked. The Escort of course must be careful of role blocking the Serial Killer as this will end up getting the Escort killed that night. A good Escort could leave a message in their last will of who they are role blocking so that if they are killed by a Serial Killer the town will know who their last target was.

[Slaol]

The Transporter is best utilized when he swaps a confirmed town power role (sheriff, doctor, etc) with someone that he deems to be suspicious. If an evil role would attempt to kill this confirmed role then the attack would instead be swapped to the person deemed suspicious. It is a great way to protect your fellow town members. This is of course a double edged sword however. If a vigilante would try to shoot the suspicious person he would instead kill your confirmed town role on accident. The Transporter also must pay special attention to who they swap each night as this may throw off investigative roles and get a fellow town member lynched on accident.

The Escort is most effectively utilized by role blocking the Godfather or other mafia power roles. This can prevent the mafia from being able to kill at night as well as give the Escort a clue as to who the Godfather might be. If the Escort role blocks someone and there are no deaths that night then there is a chance it was the Godfather or Mafioso that they role blocked. The Escort of course must be careful of role blocking the Serial Killer as this will end up getting the Escort killed that night. A good Escort could leave a message in their last will of who they are role blocking so that if they are killed by a Serial Killer the town will know who their last target was.

What, specifically, are the player's trying to do with their abilities? Disregarding all minor subtleties, what is the goal of the role?

[louiswill]

Transporter: Redirecting members of enemy factions with a night visiting ability. Win as town.

Escort: Stopping members of enemy factions with a night visiting ability. Win as town.

I think I miss some meta or some sort.

[Slaol]

Transporter: Redirecting members of enemy factions with a night visiting ability. Win as town.

Escort: Stopping members of enemy factions with a night visiting ability. Win as town.

I think I miss some meta or some sort.

I'm specifically asking the maker of the game. I don't agree with every direction he has gone in, so i'm hoping to find something we can agree on.

[BlankMediaGames]

You can check out the roles list at http://www.blankmediagames.com/roles Maybe that will help clear things up for you :)

[louiswill]

You can check out the roles list at http://www.blankmediagames.com/roles Maybe that will help clear things up for you :)


wouldn't that makes the goal of town roles to be wining as town then?

What did you actually disagree about? citizen? OoO?

[Slaol]

You can check out the roles list at http://www.blankmediagames.com/roles Maybe that will help clear things up for you :)

It would if what you posted matched the game link, or if what you posted matched your claims in this thread.
http://www.blankmediagames.com/TownOfSalem/
Also, what exactly has changed since the original release?

[ika]

I'm specifically asking the maker of the game. I don't agree with every direction he has gone in, so i'm hoping to find something we can agree on.

I second on louis with this, what is it that you are disagreeing on? There are some things that i also disagree on but what i see is you are disagreeing on some things because its that you don't like it vs not liking it as a player.

I just want some clarity on this, because maybe i am misunderstanding something but some of the disagreements seems to be personal disagreements vs player viewpoint disagreement.

[TurdPile]

As a web developer myself, I can state that creating a separate login is hardly any work at all. Implementing one into an already existing project is like a 20 minute task, if that.

[BlankMediaGames]

Alpha Testing Event starting in 1 hour! https://www.facebook.com/events/1457103367837717

[BlankMediaGames]

Hey guys, we are working on the Kickstarter video as I type this. We think everyone will will like it Until we finish it, check out this concept art for an in-game baby dragon pet!

http://i1047.photobucket.com/albums/b476/blakeburns13/dragon.jpg

[Aldaris]

Glad to see that the kickstarter is coming soon. Can you elaborate on these pets?

[oops_ur_dead]

in-game baby dragon pet!

Will you be adding DLC roles and microtransactions for extra power role charges?

[Mateo]

the more u pay the more likely u get ur preferred role

be sure to send me a royalty check for my ideas

[Orpz]

every 100 dollars u donate, it takes 1 more vote to lynch u

[Cryptonic]

what happened to the first kickstarter

[Helz]

I hope the kick starter shows at least one implemented graphic/animation. I can't imagine that I would be willing to blindly support the project given the track record..

I think the last one was for 20k and didn't hit its goal

[Mateo]

The last one was for 20k but only raised 5k. Now they start a new ks with a lower goal that's obtainable.

Can I send my pet Dragon for night kills?

[Lazers]

can i get a dragon dildo instead

[BlankMediaGames]

Haha, thanks everyone for your interest in our pets. You will be able to have 1 pet "equipped" at a time, everyone who likes the FB page when the Kickstarter is funded will be given a blue fairy pet so you will at least have 1 pet without have to spend any money.

About DLC roles, as we add new roles to the game, we will never have a role be pay to play. It is not part of our motto. You will be able to play all of the content of the game without spending a penny. If you want to buy cool cosmetic effects, then you can but nothing that is bought will effect the gameplay.

We have been fooling around with the idea of having an item that when you equip it you get a higher chance to get your preferred role but we haven't made a final decision on that yet. It will definitely not be paid for, most likely they would be unlocked by achievements. Ex: win X games, get an item that gives you 10% higher chance to be your preferred role. This is something we are very wary about however and would test this at length if we decided to implement it.

[Apocist]

The last one was for 20k but only raised 5k. Now they start a new ks with a lower goal that's obtainable.

Can I send my pet Dragon for night kills?

They raised only $1,375

[Bruno]

Yeah. Adding pets will make up the 18k difference in the last Kickstarter.

You know, I gotta say. I feel this needs said.

There is SO MUCH that needs done, like connecting accounts to the forums, bypassing Facebook, balances, UI changes, roles, etc.

I'm so FUCKING GLAD you decided DRAGONS are worth the time though, those other issues are shit.

What the fuck do Kickstarter donators know anyway, right? It's clear they only want dragons, fuck gameplay and shit.

[BlankMediaGames]

Yeah. Adding pets will make up the 18k difference in the last Kickstarter.

You know, I gotta say. I feel this needs said.

There is SO MUCH that needs done, like connecting accounts to the forums, bypassing Facebook, balances, UI changes, roles, etc.

I'm so FUCKING GLAD you decided DRAGONS are worth the time though, those other issues are shit.

What the fuck do Kickstarter donators know anyway, right? It's clear they only want dragons, fuck gameplay and shit.

You are right Bruno, there is a lot that needs to be done. This is why we need the kickstarter funds, to get all of that working. The dragon was just a quick thing that a friend did for us, no money spent. It was meant to introduce one of the future features we think people will enjoy.

[clementine]

Hi Blank Media Games, I'm going to re-post my question here since it didn't get answered in the other thread: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/25753-Town-of-Salem/page2?


As someone who has done freelance graphic design, I can confirm that $20/hr is on the low end of rates. Maybe if the blank media crew could itemize the number of graphics purchased and hours billed it would give us confidence in their money managing skills. Would you guys be willing to provide this information?

I'm also interested to know how much money was "wasted" on the first background artist since in my experience someone will hire me for a small portion of a project to make sure our business arrangement is working before moving forward with a significant graphic design order.

I know a lot of kickstarted projects (even ones that get funded!) end up failing due to lack of business experience. I think it's not unreasonable to ask to see itemized past expenses, as good records show that y'all are organized and can help increase confidence in the project.

[Helz]

Just to throw it out there information like that as well as showing what the funding gets in terms of contributions to the game is exactly where your team should be focused. Without that kind of transparency you can expect to see funding on par with your last kickstarter. For what its worth I hope this one makes it.

[BlankMediaGames]

Hi Blank Media Games, I'm going to re-post my question here since it didn't get answered in the other thread: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/25753-Town-of-Salem/page2?



I know a lot of kickstarted projects (even ones that get funded!) end up failing due to lack of business experience. I think it's not unreasonable to ask to see itemized past expenses, as good records show that y'all are organized and can help increase confidence in the project.

While I am not sure that companies should really be putting their financial data out there for all to see, I will see what I can do about getting relevant information and sharing it.

[Apocist]

Hi Blank Media Games, I'm going to re-post my question here since it didn't get answered in the other thread: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/25753-Town-of-Salem/page2?



I know a lot of kickstarted projects (even ones that get funded!) end up failing due to lack of business experience. I think it's not unreasonable to ask to see itemized past expenses, as good records show that y'all are organized and can help increase confidence in the project.

This is a for profit business. It would not be in their best interest to release all information they have.

[oops_ur_dead]

You are right Bruno, there is a lot that needs to be done. This is why we need the kickstarter funds, to get all of that working. The dragon was just a quick thing that a friend did for us, no money spent. It was meant to introduce one of the future features we think people will enjoy.

It probably took more effort to do Facebook logins than it would to do forum logins. Balances are things that'll come over time, from player reports and not from any amount of money pumped into a kickstarter. Not sure what UI changes bruno wants but those are probably trivial too. Roles can take time, but probably not even that much.


While I am not sure that companies should really be putting their financial data out there for all to see, I will see what I can do about getting relevant information and sharing it.


This is a for profit business. It would not be in their best interest to release all information they have.

It is if they expect to get any amount of funding. Most kickstarters put up info about how they're going to use the money they get. It looks to me like these guys have spent a bunch of money making a game, then the game fell flat on its face, and now they're making the kickstarter so that they can get back some of the money they've thrown away. They're listing costs such as artwork (which has already been made) and programmers (they ARE the programmers, they don't need to hire anyone). They don't need any money to actually finish the project, from what I can see.

[BlankMediaGames]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/652/339/f289022eae84175cbd19753489a57203_large.png?1392792 925

This is the chart we made for the Kickstarter. Asking for 15k after taxes we will get about 12k or so to actually work with. I hope this answers some of the questions :) The funds will be used over a 2 month period to get ToS from Alpha to Release

[Space Milk]

Well I was going to try it but it asks for my facebook login? Do people even use social networking or is that just me.

[oops_ur_dead]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/652/339/f289022eae84175cbd19753489a57203_large.png?1392792 925

This is the chart we made for the Kickstarter. Asking for 15k after taxes we will get about 12k or so to actually work with. I hope this answers some of the questions :) The funds will be used over a 2 month period to get ToS from Alpha to Release

"Operating costs"
What is this? $7500-9500 for something as vague as that? Can you give us any idea of what "Operating costs" actually is?

"Legal fees"
What kind of legal issues are there here? Is this money going to a lawyer? Is it to pay for royalties?

"Artwork"
What kind of artwork is there left?

Also you mention that you'll only get 12k after taxes. That isn't true, because in the US at least if you spend that money within the first year of the Kickstarter then you don't have to pay any taxes on it. You said it'll be spent over a 2 month period so you should have the full 15k to work with.

[clementine]

I feel like my question wasn't adequately answered. I am not sure if you are unwilling or unable to provide this information. If it's unwilling, thats one thing, unable is another. Ever since the "Doom that came to Atlantic City' kick starter ordeal, I won't be funding any kick starters that won't be transparent about where the money is going. "Operating expenses" sounds awfully similar to one of the reason the Doom that came to Atlantic City wasted a bunch of the kick starter money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt. But my personal policy is not to kick start projects that can't pass my risk of investment assessment. Best of luck, ToS.

[BlankMediaGames]

Operating costs include server expenses for 2 months, bandwidth and programming costs (ie. so we don't starve since we are quitting our day jobs, or in my case already quit it, to make this game). I understand if you think we are trying to go for a money grab but most games they get funded have to give at least of the funds to the programmers so they don't become homeless.

We just launched the Kickstarter! Check it out and play the game for free! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2002718381/town-of-salem-mafia-style-browser-game

[oops_ur_dead]

Operating costs include server expenses for 2 months, bandwidth

What kind of servers are you looking at that'll cost that much? For what you're using it for, the most money you should be spending is like $100/month. You can run Minecraft servers on $30/month, and I highly doubt ToS is much more taxing than Minecraft.


programming costs (ie. so we don't starve since we are quitting our day jobs, or in my case already quit it, to make this game)

Diverting money from a kickstarter towards money for yourself is irresponsible and greedy. This is a project that, once completed, will bring revenue to you through your pets or whatever you plan to sell. It's really, really scummy to take $9000 out of a $15000 kickstarter, hide it under "operating costs" and take it for yourself, while telling people that you're going to spend it developing a game you already plan to profit off of.

[BlankMediaGames]

What kind of servers are you looking at that'll cost that much? For what you're using it for, the most money you should be spending is like $100/month. You can run Minecraft servers on $30/month, and I highly doubt ToS is much more taxing than Minecraft.



Diverting money from a kickstarter towards money for yourself is irresponsible and greedy. This is a project that, once completed, will bring revenue to you through your pets or whatever you plan to sell. It's really, really scummy to take $9000 out of a $15000 kickstarter, hide it under "operating costs" and take it for yourself, while telling people that you're going to spend it developing a game you already plan to profit off of.

Any game that is on Kickstarter, some of the money is going to the Devs so they can live. See those big games getting 1 million? Most of that is going towards salaries for the companies employees. For example take this Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playism/la-mulana-2?ref=category). Most of the cost of creating digital games is in the people. I assure you, having 8k going to 2 programmers for 2 months of work is the bare minimum we need and we would not ask for a penny more than what is required. We will be eating ramen for the next 2-6 months but itll be worth it in the end.

[oops_ur_dead]

Any game that is on Kickstarter, some of the money is going to the Devs so they can live. See those big games getting 1 million? Most of that is going towards salaries for the companies employees. For example take this Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/playism/la-mulana-2?ref=category). Most of the cost of creating digital games is in the people. I assure you, having 8k going to 2 programmers for 2 months of work is the bare minimum we need and we would not ask for a penny more than what is required. We will be eating ramen for the next 2-6 months but itll be worth it in the end.

Yes, in other Kickstarters the money is going to the devs. You aren't the devs, though, you are the founders. In other kickstarters the devs won't make any money from the product when it eventually goes on sale, they'll only make whatever they were paid while the game was in development. You guys, on the other hand, are going to be directly profiting from this game when its finished. Also I dunno what the hell kind of ramen you're going to be eating for $4000. I mean, shit, you could eat out every day for two months for that kind of money. And I also have an issue with you guys hiding it under "Operating costs". You're making it sound like the money is going to go towards buying computers or some shit, when really you're literally spending about 60% of the money you receive on yourselves. Doesn't that sound at least a little bit dishonest to you?

[BlankMediaGames]

Ok...now this thread seems to be turning into a match of Mafia... We have a lot of deception on our hands... And... this is almost turning to be fun. Originally BlackMedia claimed to place almost $10k in funds towards artwork... Now they are saying they didn't....

This has just been getting more and more fishy...

(On a lighter note: OH how would be nice to quit my day job so Apo could work full-time on eMafia instead of whenever he has time, anyone willing to pay him? xD )

We did, in the past, put 10k into artwork/music. The chart provided is for how we are using the money from the Kickstarter.

[BlankMediaGames]

I don't see how it is dishonest when we told you when you asked? In order for the company to operate, in order for us to be able to code this thing in the 2 months promised, that's what we are using the operating costs for. If I told you that we needed that money for other things and lied, that would be dishonest.

[BlankMediaGames]

I believe that this thread is getting a little off track. If you want a full report of our past spending, I will not supply it. If you want to know what we will be spending on, I told you. If you don't like it, you don't have to back us. If you believe in the product, then back us.

Thanks

[Dark.Revenant]

Sometimes the producer is the developer. A man's gotta pay the bills.

[BlankMediaGames]

BlankMediaGames. I had asked what changed from the original release some months ago. This was never answered. Oops _ ur _ dead raises question that you are covering for lost funds with this Kickstarter. Seeing as the product hasn't changed, and contradicts itself in multiple cases, how can you contest this accusation?

The product has changed, we have made many bug fixes, added some new features we knew wouldn't break the game. Kickstarter requires you to finish the product after you are funded. If you want to help us make the game, then please do so. If not, that's fine too. Someone who is extremely skeptical wouldnt use a crowdfunding website anyway so I don't want to spend time convincing you of what Kickstarter guarantees.

[Slaol]

The product has changed

Why does the product not match your claims in this thread for the ways roles operate? As well, why did the link you posted for information not match your claims or the product.


Kickstarter requires you to finish the product after you are funded.

You aren't allowed to work on it until it is funded, but you just said you made new features and had bug fixes. Which is it?


If you want to help us make the game, then please do so.

I would if you would respond to actual questions instead of repeating the same pattern of never answering anything, (Please see part one of this post). People want to know what their money is going to, and all you have done thus far is lie or refuse information. I'd like to support it, but.... you have to work with the people you want to work with you dude, lol.


Someone who is extremely skeptical wouldnt use a crowdfunding website anyway so I don't want to spend time convincing you of what Kickstarter guarantees.

Again, you ask for money but refuse any actual discussion and cooperation. Why?

[BlankMediaGames]

Why does the product not match your claims in this thread for the ways roles operate? As well, why did the link you posted for information not match your claims or the product.



You aren't allowed to work on it until it is funded, but you just said you made new features and had bug fixes. Which is it?



I would if you would respond to actual questions instead of repeating the same pattern of never answering anything, (Please see part one of this post). People want to know what their money is going to, and all you have done thus far is lie or refuse information. I'd like to support it, but.... you have to work with the people you want to work with you dude, lol.



Again, you ask for money but refuse any actual discussion and cooperation. Why?

You misunderstand, Kickstarter guarantees that the product will be finished, we can still work on it in the meantime and we have been. What differences are you talking about in terms of roles? I will respond to any question that you have as long as it is constructive to the thread.

[Slaol]

You misunderstand, Kickstarter guarantees that the product will be finished, we can still work on it in the meantime and we have been. What differences are you talking about in terms of roles? I will respond to any question that you have as long as it is constructive to the thread.

Everyone else is being more constructive than you.

Please answer the accusation by oops_ur_dead in a way that will convince us to maintain trust. Even users like Clementine, who were blatantly less aggressive than myself or Bruno have felt you refused to actually work with them. I ask you to actually answer the questions you have clearly avoided. Everyone loses when you won't work with us.

[BlankMediaGames]

Which questions are you referring to? I don't want to seem like I am ignoring a question by reading through the thread and missing one. If you list them out for me, I will answer all of them for you.

[oops_ur_dead]

Which questions are you referring to? I don't want to seem like I am ignoring a question by reading through the thread and missing one. If you list them out for me, I will answer all of them for you.

I've asked twice what "Legal fees" means and what artwork you have left to do. You also didn't tell me why you aren't sharing your past spending

[Helz]

I don't really get all the falk on this thread. Sure he is not replying like you want but why would he? He made a free to play game and is attempting on getting compensation and money to spend on the game. It was pretty silly of him to suggest that all the money would be spent on the game but that much is obvious in every kickstarter. This topic has just been 5 pages of people making fun of his work and demanding erroneous explanations with no real point. Ease up a bit. Especially those of you that have zero intentions of supporting the project regardless of what he says.

[oops_ur_dead]

I don't really get all the falk on this thread. Sure he is not replying like you want but why would he? He made a free to play game and is attempting on getting compensation and money to spend on the game. It was pretty silly of him to suggest that all the money would be spent on the game but that much is obvious in every kickstarter. This topic has just been 5 pages of people making fun of his work and demanding erroneous explanations with no real point. Ease up a bit. Especially those of you that have zero intentions of supporting the project regardless of what he says.

I don't think you guys understand the issue with him keeping money to himself. Here's what I'm saying: Yes, in most Kickstarters some of the money goes to the developers. And of course that's fine. But the people who are going to profit off of the game should not get that money because their money should come from the success of the project, and how solid their idea is. In other Kickstarters and game dev studios, the developers get hired, they get paid their salary out of the CEO's investment money, and the CEO absorbs the risk of the project failing, but also gets to keep the spoils if it succeeds, while the developers don't make any bonuses from the game being successful or not. This is especially scummy when the majority of the money that he's claiming is going to be spent on the game is going to be spent on himself instead. Hell, we don't even know if his other costs are legitimate because he's been keeping quiet on them.

[Dark.Revenant]

If the developer doesn't have money to live, he can't make the game and must work some other job. Ergo, if a dev doesn't spend the Kickstarter money on bills and ramen, the game isn't made.

[Nick]

I don't understand the brouhaha if Kickstarter guarantees that a funded project will be completed.

Shouldn't the concern be: how successful will the funded project be once completion?

That said, obscure financial plans and fuzzy project timeline do not generate confidence, and turn away donors.

[clementine]

I have a few more questions:

1. When will the game be open to non-facebook logged users?
2. Are the example pets/fairies just unfinished concept art or the actual art to be used in game?
3. Is there a reason your forums are not visible from logged out? If possible I would appreciate being able to lurk around for a while before deciding whether or not to create an account. :D

And more of a comment than a question:

I remember last time I felt like the artwork was thematically inconsistent. i.e. Town of Salem/the crucible player figures/houses juxtaposed with wild west role images (shown on your kickstarter page), and now add mythical creatures i.e. fairies/dragons to the mix. I just worry that by straying from the theme of the game (Town of Salem), the atmosphere and immersion quality of the game will suffer. All three themes (town of salem, wild west, and fantasy) are good on their own, but I assume you picked ToS for a reason. I personally wish that you guys showed a little more gumption to stick to the theme, but keep in mind this is coming from someone who hasn't had a chance to try out the game due to not wanting to log in with Facebook. I don't know if I'll feel differently after playing it.

Could you possibly comment on the thematic divergence? I'm just interested to know why those decisions were made.

[Nick]

Sometimes the producer is the developer. A man's gotta pay the bills.

Perhaps. But they should at least say whom they hired, for which work, for how long, and how much they are paid. Similarly for other items.
With these information, at least the donors can chip in ideas, help to find cheaper alternative etc. It's called accountability.

For future donors, it's called a clear project plan.

No reason to be afraid of donors questioning their finances as long as they are justified.

Eg. are they paying the producer cum developer 1k per month for full time work or 10k per month for full time work.

[oops_ur_dead]

if Kickstarter guarantees that a funded project will be completed.

But it doesn't. What, do you think that they'll hunt them down and hold a gun to their heads until they finish it? Plenty of Kickstarters have fallen flat on their faces and gone nowhere after they received funding.

[clementine]

I don't understand the brouhaha if Kickstarter guarantees that a funded project will be completed.

This is actually untrue. Quote from the Kickstarter FAQ:


Kickstarter Basics: Accountability

Who is responsible for completing a project as promised?
It's the project creator's responsibility to complete their project. Kickstarter is not involved in the development of the projects themselves.

Kickstarter does not guarantee projects or investigate a creator's ability to complete their project. On Kickstarter, backers (you!) ultimately decide the validity and worthiness of a project by whether they decide to fund it.

There was a huge scandal over the summer when this one Kickstarted Board Game that was way overfunded ended up getting delayed by about a year and eventually canceled due to money mismanagement. This started a pretty large discussion about due diligence that investors must take when deciding to fund Kickstarters, as essentially you are responsible for deciding whether or not you believe in each product and people's ability to produce said product. The lawsuit is ongoing, and you can read more about it here: http://www.gamepolitics.com/2013/07/26/doom-came-atlantic-city-backers-will-wait-long-time-refunds#.UwV_cHnYA38

Kickstarter is a great platform for games, but you have to weed through a bunch of duds to find the ones actually worth funding.

[BlankMediaGames]

I have a few more questions:

1. When will the game be open to non-facebook logged users?
2. Are the example pets/fairies just unfinished concept art or the actual art to be used in game?
3. Is there a reason your forums are not visible from logged out? If possible I would appreciate being able to lurk around for a while before deciding whether or not to create an account. :D

And more of a comment than a question:

I remember last time I felt like the artwork was thematically inconsistent. i.e. Town of Salem/the crucible player figures/houses juxtaposed with wild west role images (shown on your kickstarter page), and now add mythical creatures i.e. fairies/dragons to the mix. I just worry that by straying from the theme of the game (Town of Salem), the atmosphere and immersion quality of the game will suffer. All three themes (town of salem, wild west, and fantasy) are good on their own, but I assume you picked ToS for a reason. I personally wish that you guys showed a little more gumption to stick to the theme, but keep in mind this is coming from someone who hasn't had a chance to try out the game due to not wanting to log in with Facebook. I don't know if I'll feel differently after playing it.

Could you possibly comment on the thematic divergence? I'm just interested to know why those decisions were made.

Thanks for making your questions itemized and easy to answer, it helps a lot when I am trying to manage loads of stuff at the same time :)

1.) Our login system will likely be the very first thing we will do for our beta. I expect it would be live 1-2 weeks after the kickstarter ends.
2.) The pet art is concept art made by a friend. The artist we normally use for our character art will remake these and give them cool animations.
3.) I can do that no problem :) Turned them visible before I posted this.

If you are referring to the desert map as "wild west theme" it is a customization option you can choose. If not please let me know, we aren't going for wild west as a theme really. As for the central theme having dragons and stuff, we want to have the setting be an alternate universe Salem, MA that doesn't follow the rules of our world. This will allow to do fun things like have dragons or have alien abductions be an execution. We want it to be fun, we don't want the game to be too realistic and we don't want it to be taken too seriously.

[BlankMediaGames]

As for the plan for spending the money after the Kickstarter gets funded:

operating costs $8,500.00 (500 for server expenses [expanding servers, bandwidth usuage, etc], $2k per programmer per month to live on while working on this full-time)
artwork $2,500.00 (role rework art, new role art, scrollbar art, art for new UI elements talked about in our future plans on the KS, etc)
sound $200.00 (we may not need all 200 to go to sound but we want new music, new sounds for the new UIs, etc)
legal fees $2,300.00 (trademark, copyright, terms of service writeup, binding legal docs like an NDA, non-compete, contractor agreement, investor agreement, IP protection, registered agent, an hour with a lawyer for legal questions, etc)

I hope this extremely itemized list will answer any questions you may have. I don't think that there should be any other questions after this about our spending. If you want to suggest a cheap artist, lawyer or sound guy please be my guest.

[BlankMediaGames]

Actually you are right, I thought that they themselves guaranteed the project or they would sue but it look like the contributors can sue the company directly instead if the project isn't completed. Sorry, I was misinformed about that part. Though with our project, there is little risk involved since we already have a working Alpha and just need to get over this last hump in order to Release.

[oops_ur_dead]

As for the plan for spending the money after the Kickstarter gets funded:

operating costs $8,500.00 (500 for server expenses [expanding servers, bandwidth usuage, etc], $2k per programmer per month to live on while working on this full-time)
artwork $2,500.00 (role rework art, new role art, scrollbar art, art for new UI elements talked about in our future plans on the KS, etc)
sound $200.00 (we may not need all 200 to go to sound but we want new music, new sounds for the new UIs, etc)
legal fees $2,300.00 (trademark, copyright, terms of service writeup, binding legal docs like an NDA, non-compete, contractor agreement, investor agreement, IP protection, registered agent, an hour with a lawyer for legal questions, etc)

I hope this extremely itemized list will answer any questions you may have. I don't think that there should be any other questions after this about our spending. If you want to suggest a cheap artist, lawyer or sound guy please be my guest.

8500 + 2500 + 200 + 2300 = 13500

Where's the extra $1500 going?

[BlankMediaGames]

Kickstarter + amazon takes 9%

[Orpz]

if u have a pet and u get lynched, does ur pet get lynched too?

[Helz]

if u have a pet and u get lynched, does ur pet get lynched too?

That would be really entertaining

[Coast]

Together til the end.

http://i.imgur.com/HFuxVZH.png

[BlankMediaGames]

if u have a pet and u get lynched, does ur pet get lynched too?

Your pet cries over your dead body :)

[BlankMediaGames]

We will be doing a Let's Play with youtube channel TakeThisStudios today.

[Techies]

We will be doing a Let's Play with youtube channel TakeThisStudios today.

In how many hours/minutes? NVM too late.

Anyways some thought:

Facebook only Login chasing people away.
Need more publicity.
Guilty/ Innocent button needs to be highlighted so you know if you clicked it.
One line chat in lobby is kinda annoying, especially for those peeps with long names.
Show how many players are in the lobby.
Show numbers of players currently online, so it doesn't feel like a ghost town.

[Techies]

As for the plan for spending the money after the Kickstarter gets funded:

operating costs $8,500.00 (500 for server expenses [expanding servers, bandwidth usuage, etc], $2k per programmer per month to live on while working on this full-time)
artwork $2,500.00 (role rework art, new role art, scrollbar art, art for new UI elements talked about in our future plans on the KS, etc)
sound $200.00 (we may not need all 200 to go to sound but we want new music, new sounds for the new UIs, etc)
legal fees $2,300.00 (trademark, copyright, terms of service writeup, binding legal docs like an NDA, non-compete, contractor agreement, investor agreement, IP protection, registered agent, an hour with a lawyer for legal questions, etc)

I hope this extremely itemized list will answer any questions you may have. I don't think that there should be any other questions after this about our spending. If you want to suggest a cheap artist, lawyer or sound guy please be my guest.

Why a NDA, I've never seen an NDA doing actual good for a game. Just look at Strife from S2Games, that's an experienced company that no the uselessness of a NDA. We live in a world where every bid of word of mouth is valuable for start up games and where accessibility is the key.

[oops_ur_dead]

We will be doing a Let's Play with youtube channel TakeThisStudios today.

You mean these guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5KTQTA8NA

[Bruno]

Autistic meets game tailored to his needs


Lol 76 subs

[BlankMediaGames]

In how many hours/minutes? NVM too late.

Anyways some thought:

Facebook only Login chasing people away.
Need more publicity.
Guilty/ Innocent button needs to be highlighted so you know if you clicked it.
One line chat in lobby is kinda annoying, especially for those peeps with long names.
Show how many players are in the lobby.
Show numbers of players currently online, so it doesn't feel like a ghost town.

Thanks for your constructive support. It is good to see people who are positive :)
Facebook login will be the first thing to go after the Kickstarter ends. We don't want to do any game breaking changes while the Kickstarter is up. In the future, FB will be only one option to login.
We are trying many avenues of advertising/marketing but if you have any suggestions please let us know. We are always open to suggestions.
G/I buttons issue is a known bug and is on our list to squash. Same with the chat wrap, players in lobby and players online. These will be getting fixed over the next week or two.

Again, thanks for your feedback.

[Oliver]

Pledged.

Really looking forward to this one.

[BlankMediaGames]

I wanted to let everyone know we are doing a testing event tonight, 8pm CST. Check out the event on our Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Town-of-Salem/1436824076554384

[BlankMediaGames]

There will be a testing event at 4pm this Saturday, 03/01/14. It's targeted at that time so we could get more Europeans on.

[BlankMediaGames]

Continue-play wrote an article about us. http://www.continue-play.com/news/town-of-salem-seeks-funding-on-kickstarter/

[TurdPile]

Why a NDA, I've never seen an NDA doing actual good for a game. Just look at Strife from S2Games, that's an experienced company that no the uselessness of a NDA. We live in a world where every bid of word of mouth is valuable for start up games and where accessibility is the key.

An NDA for employees. Almost every company has them, whether its a mutual NDA or not. It stops people from taking code and disclosing it to the next company they go to. The NDA is what made the Zynga vs Kixeye lawsuit a big deal.

[Psyduck]

Here's some constructive criticism :

#1.Make an option for a private game.
#2.MAKE A DIFFERENT LOGIN! * If you MUST have fb login, at least allow the user to make a "username" Alias ....
#3. Some people haven't been speaking english, so I suggest fixing that, like making rooms for english, etc.
#4. All the text is white, it's hard to differentiate Names from chat. Make the Names colored.
#5. Make a report player afk for mafia, & town, so it will kick them like say : Godfather is afk, if other 2 mafia vote then he is gone. (or do something like if they dont type they have a heart attack)
#6. if no one is killed after 3 days, then do some sort of secret ballot ....

I MUST STRESS THOUGH HOW IMPORTANT the login feature is . You really do need to fix it .I don't think people will play this if you do not fix the login/names crap. (and add colors) It shouldn't be that hard to do this man...

And I really think people would want the chance to play with their friends in a private game.
And there really needs to be citizens , this game is pretty much a joke without citizens... I've played plenty of mafia and werewolf before DARK Made this game... What the others are saying about citizens is true. and taking out what was it , detective , is stupid.
Your game MIGHT have a chance if you actually listen to people man. how old is this thread now, and so far you haven't tried what these people are saying? Please at least try adding citizens it wouldn't be that hard to slap a name on a cartoon char you have already created. I don't think people like their real name being known in a game so fix this , or GG for you....
sorry for the disappointment but it's true.

[Oliver]

'#1.Make an option for a private game'

Might just encourage point abuse, wouldn't it?

'#2.MAKE A DIFFERENT LOGIN! * If you MUST have fb login, at least allow the user to make a "username" Alias ....'

I think if they complete the Kickstarter, they said within 2 weeks they could remove the necessity of Facebook. In the meantime, it takes all of 30 seconds to create a fake facebook account.

'#3. Some people haven't been speaking english, so I suggest fixing that, like making rooms for english, etc. '

They've talked about making the game multi-language, but I don't imagine this is something that's coming anytime soon. I think English only for now, is fine. Not doubting you, but I personally haven't yet played a game, where someone spoke in another language.

'#4. All the text is white, it's hard to differentiate Names from chat. Make the Names colored. '

Yeah, that's something that has already been suggested : )

'#5. Make a report player afk for mafia, & town, so it will kick them like say : Godfather is afk, if other 2 mafia vote then he is gone. (or do something like if they dont type they have a heart attack)'

100% agree

'#6. if no one is killed after 3 days, then do some sort of secret ballot ....'

Don't know if this is necessary, as long as #5 is in place.

'And I really think people would want the chance to play with their friends in a private game. '

Not 100% against it but I think this is would just lead to point abuse. Besides, there aren't very many players on the game at the moment anyway, chances are you can make a full game just made up of people you know. There's never been a point where I've logged in and haven't yet had to wait to play a game.

'And there really needs to be citizens , this game is pretty much a joke without citizens'

I'd have to agree there. The Developers say that the role is 'boring' and so won't include it. Roles like the Mentalist and Retributionist might be kinda fun but really aren't balanced at all. They have said they'll be adding new roles soon, lets hope these include ones like Cultist and Detective and not some new, heavily problematic role. These roles might be fun to get, but make the game less so for everyone else.

[Bruno]

If the game isn't funded AGAIN, will you consider making changes the community has been recommending since the first KS?

[BlankMediaGames]

Here's some constructive criticism :

#1.Make an option for a private game.
#2.MAKE A DIFFERENT LOGIN! * If you MUST have fb login, at least allow the user to make a "username" Alias ....
#3. Some people haven't been speaking english, so I suggest fixing that, like making rooms for english, etc.
#4. All the text is white, it's hard to differentiate Names from chat. Make the Names colored.
#5. Make a report player afk for mafia, & town, so it will kick them like say : Godfather is afk, if other 2 mafia vote then he is gone. (or do something like if they dont type they have a heart attack)
#6. if no one is killed after 3 days, then do some sort of secret ballot ....

I MUST STRESS THOUGH HOW IMPORTANT the login feature is . You really do need to fix it .I don't think people will play this if you do not fix the login/names crap. (and add colors) It shouldn't be that hard to do this man...

And I really think people would want the chance to play with their friends in a private game.
And there really needs to be citizens , this game is pretty much a joke without citizens... I've played plenty of mafia and werewolf before DARK Made this game... What the others are saying about citizens is true. and taking out what was it , detective , is stupid.
Your game MIGHT have a chance if you actually listen to people man. how old is this thread now, and so far you haven't tried what these people are saying? Please at least try adding citizens it wouldn't be that hard to slap a name on a cartoon char you have already created. I don't think people like their real name being known in a game so fix this , or GG for you....
sorry for the disappointment but it's true.


1) We will have a new lobby system that will allow for private games and games that have reserved spots you can invite people to. Private games won't count towards achievements or give you experience for leveling to prevent abuse.
2) We are working on the new log in right now. It has been alot of work but it is almost ready for testing then itll be a day or two before we release it. I'll let you know when it goes live :)
3) Hopefully we can figure out a way to where non-English speakers can queue into people who speak their same language but that is something that is kind of a low priority right now but we will look into it in the future.
4) We used to have each number be a different color and it hurt the eyes too much so we took that out. We are looking into other ways to differentiate players in chat.
5) We will be implementing an AFK system at some point. It will include in-game and in the lobbies.
6) We are implementing a stalemate detection system that will have a similar feel to it. If we think there could be a stalemate (3 nights with no deaths after a certain day, maybe day 7 or something) we will tell everyone they have 1 more night before a draw happens.

[BrockSamson]

You mean these guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6q5KTQTA8NA

That dude has an uphill battle in life.

[BrockSamson]

On a serious note, the game needs to be streamlined...see previous comments. And also. given the level of internet hostility, I would prefer that certain players not be given my name on facebook.

[BlankMediaGames]

We have gotten some great reviews/let's plays from some big names on the youtubes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zSndvoT8Anc#t=5

[creedkingsx]

totally skype cheating. lol

[Geth Prime]

We have detected a critical error with this kick-starter so far. We have calculated that a disproportionate amount of money comes from the large donations.

We are giving an example. In this case, nearly 50% of the current donations come from 3 people out of 87. CALCULATION: 50% comes from ~3.3%. That is highly disproportionate.

We are continuing our calculation. . . . . .

We have also reached the consensus that the average donation is what organics would deem a whopping 62 dollars.

Our calculations place a low chance of success on this Kick-starter as the average donation is too extremely high for it to ever hope to reach the full budget.

[Orpz]

Median is more resistant to outliers

[acku11]

As Secret head of Secret Admin force, i am proud to announce a compilation of Town of Salem
Enjoy

Enjoy! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zrPNTDAtMQ&t=1m40s)

[MasterHe]

As Secret head of Secret Admin force, i am proud to announce a compilation of Town of Salem
Enjoy

Enjoy! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zrPNTDAtMQ&t=1m40s)

Morde es numero uno hue hue hue

[Oliver]

Over 300 users currently playing, 20 something different games running. Well on its way to a success.

[TurdPile]

Over 300 users currently playing, 20 something different games running. Well on its way to a success.

600 now.

[Techies]

700 now
And most of my previous suggestions on previous page have been implemented or being implemented.

Game has hit it's critical mass, stand good chance of hitting the kick-starter goal, and the improvements that have been made so far has been very meaningful.
This is gonna remain in my Bookmarks for a long time, instant game of mafia.

Thank you streamers!

[Orpz]

useful for instant mafia in Comp Sci since my school blocks epicmafia

[Orpz]

there's 11 days and its only 53% funded rn

RIP

[BlankMediaGames]

We just released a big update that contains our new login system! So if you didn't want to play using Facebook you don't have to anymore! :D

And just to put it in perspective, we have recieved about 30% funding in the last 5 days. The last few days of a Kickstarter are usually the biggest so don't RIP us just yet :)

[Bruno]

rip

[TurdPile]

rip

stubborn ignorance must be quite a virtue. You think it's bad, but now SourceFed/Meg Turney are hooked on the game.
Haters are going to hate. Cliche statement but true nonetheless.

[creedkingsx]

stubborn ignorance must be quite a virtue. You think it's bad, but now SourceFed/Meg Turney are hooked on the game.
Haters are going to hate. Cliche statement but true nonetheless.

omg, it's true.
MEG, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[BlankMediaGames]

#BigBalling

[Bruno]

#BigBalling

#FailedFirstTime
#StrokeYerEgo
#YouWontBeFunded
#Blakeburns
#LikeYourOwnFacebookPosts
#LolOopsWillReign
#RIP

[oops_ur_dead]

#LolOopsWillReign

http://az545221.vo.msecnd.net/skype-faq-media/faq_content/skype/screenshots/fa12330/emoticons/happy_20.png

[creedkingsx]

#FailedFirstTime
#StrokeYerEgo
#YouWontBeFunded
#Blakeburns
#LikeYourOwnFacebookPosts
#LolOopsWillReign
#RIP

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did, now.

[TurdPile]

tbh, I wouldn't be surprised if they did, now.

Did what? fail or success? and what do you mean "Meg, NOooo?"? Afraid meg is going to get a new addiction?

[Frog]

15000-Current=($)
$4661 and 9(#) days to be fully funded.

It actually picked up traction.
It may actually receive the funding in entirety.
It sort of needs a last minute boost when there are 7 days to go.

($)/(#)
$517 a day.

(($)/(#))*231
Approximately an income of $119,000 a year (assuming standard weekends and vacation days)
Kick starter is profitable, eh?

68.9% Funded.

[Mateo]

15000-Current=($)
$4661 and 9(#) days to be fully funded.

It actually picked up traction.
It may actually receive the funding in entirety.
It sort of needs a last minute boost when there are 7 days to go.

($)/(#)
$517 a day.

(($)/(#))*231
Approximately an income of $119,000 a year (assuming standard weekends and vacation days)
Kick starter is profitable, eh?

68.9% Funded.

dont forget to take advertising into the budget

[Techies]

Funded

[Slaol]

-suicide

[Techies]

-suicide

I call BS

I'm the only Techies here.

[Mateo]

CONGRATULATIONS DARKREVENANT

well done on the cool $2000 u made helping tos scam ur user base. if theres anything else u wanna sell out send me a pm. i got plenty disposable income.

[Apocist]

Most of the SC2 Maf population seems to be quite against this, lol

[Slaol]

It's basically the only thing Mateo and I bond over.
Sc2 v ToS 2014. Never forget

[Orpz]

there's 11 days and its only 53% funded rn

RIP

rip my credibility

[Frog]

-suicide

-suicide

[RLVG]

-suicide

-drownpainfullyandslowly

[TurdPile]

CONGRATULATIONS DARKREVENANT

well done on the cool $2000 u made helping tos scam ur user base. if theres anything else u wanna sell out send me a pm. i got plenty disposable income.

Funny enough: 99% of the userbase is NOT sc2. Most are from followers of youtubers.

[Helz]

I'm glad it got funded and pretty disappointed in the communities attitude.

[IPityTheFool]

DIS GAEM SO HYPE YEAH!

[iProbeU]

I decided to play a game of Town Salem today.The host chooses all confirmed roles, except for one any random. My role is spy. Night 1 passes, mafia says nothing, and I get shot by a vigi. Great game BlankMediaGames.

Conclusion: Needs moar balance. The community sucks even more than the SC2 community, but considering it's an fb game, I shouldn't be surprised.

[ArchKomodo]

I think the browser version is way lighter and therefore more convenient to log into. It doesn't take 15 minutes to start a game that could end in two minutes of trolling, crashing, or other general fuckery. The games seem to go a bit more quickly, smoothly. That said, I like just about everything else the SC2 version has to offer. Sure, the community is full of trolls. Yes, I get booted from the login screen about 1 in 4 games. But the aesthetic is actually better -- no one cares about pilgrims. Thanksgiving meets Clue is inferior to small asteroid colony overrun with cultists and criminals.

I am never in favor of something that simplifies an existing version for accessibility. That said, I think the browser Town of Salem has a lot of promise. If you guys keep a 'simplified' version for the new people which doesn't feature a dizzying amount of roles and balance its popularity with the 'custom' version, which should have every feature and role from the sc2 version, then I fully support you. Also, once again, the community is way less troll-ish and hasn't had me kicked from the lobby while a game was being set up just because I was a donor. That goes a long way.

[SuperJack]

Revive and Talk to Dead.
Theme.
Minimal Customization.
Citizen-less.
Multiple account cheats.


The 5 things that I see that ruin the game, and need to be fixed or it will remain a poor game.

[deathworlds]

I played it once and it glitched out beyond belief.

[Slaol]

I played it once and it glitched out beyond belief.

How many people were playing?

[deathworlds]

13

[Slaol]

Is that maximum?