Day VII Discussion: The Final Breaking Point

[Elixir]

No point with the vote thing, you already know their roles.

If the Reaper Leader doesn't die today or the following night, Reapers will win.

[Elixir]

As I said in my rationale in the feedback thread about beast balance, FM games dont go longer than day 7/8.

Day 6 was more than fair, but if using timed roles in future mass role claim will need to be discouraged some how.

[Elixir]

Priest chat opened for dead viewing.

[Sonya]

Nobody asked anyone to mass roleclaim day 4. Day 5 mass-claim would have been needed, though. They even happen without beast, its just the first game with this kind of role in, people didn't really know how to handle it.

[Verna]

meh, nobody cares at this point, town had the game won and threw it away the last day+night

this deal the cults are offering is in really bad taste, wtf is this - openly asking people to play against their current team's winning condition

[Elixir]

Cult doesn't have majority. Cult Leader can still be overthrown.

[Brian]

But he holds the mafia hostage, he recruited one of each mafia according to what he said. This means the remaining unculted mafia have no choice but to cooperate and be recruited as well, otherwise they give the town a fighting chance and might lose the game.

Orange may still go down that road, they've been anti-cult, or appeared to be.

[Verna]

Obviously I see it's 6vs4, that is why I say what I say. If anyone takes up on that deal it's borderline cheating, and even asking for such a thing is a bad way to play. This has been discussed before and that is why I am surprised they even made that post.

[Brian]

Well, they could not cooperate and shoot the cult leader at night... Or vote with the town to lynch him... But there will still be living reapers remaining afterwards, it will be a mexican standoff where the town might actually end up winning. Can they afford to risk that, or will they just let themselves be recruited for a safe win?

The situation makes their choice acceptable if they side with the cult, put yourself in their shoes. They either willingly join the cult or each of them is alone fighting for the win. Fighting is cooler, but will they really go the hard way when they have an easy option for victory?

Hoping to be recruited by the cult since the start of FM is bad play, but at this point its a viable option.

[Amber]

I agree with Brian.

[Verna]

Orange player A (culted) and orange player B (unculted) are enemies. What is this hostage crap you are talking about? They are no longer teammates and don't share a winning condition. Can you understand that? If player B says: "okay I will help you if you recruit me in the cult" it is directly playing against his winning condition at that point of time. What you call a "mexican standoff" is preferable for player B to surrendering the game to the cult, because it will still leave chances to his team(orange mafia) to win.

Again - 1 orange vs 1 red vs 1 cult vs 2 town "mexican standoff" next day should be preferable to surrendering the game to the cult right now, from an orange mafia player perspective.

The objective of the game is to make you team win, not to make the town lose at all costs.

[Yvette]

Usually i'd fully support monster's point of view. Playing to get culted is bad play and should always be discouraged or even forbidden, to an extent.

The current situation, however, is one where the lone mafias must decide what it's best for them in order to win this game as individual players. There's no reasonable way to win as a mafia team. It is indeed best to put your trust in the cult, knowing that even then it's not a guaranteed win: the cult may decide not to fulfill their part of the deal.

I'd say that the cult should win when 75% or more of the population is culted. That way, there won't be enough time to cult everyone and plan for this kind of "scum union".

[Thelma]

Priest chat opened for dead viewing.


:'(

[Verna]

Okay, the individual player argument makes some sense and you can really say that if winning is all that matters, helping the cult might be a viable strategy. Except there isn't any incentive to win as an individual at any cost, you don't get a reward, you don't get points, you don't get a rank. Then there is the fact that the game will end prematurely and not everyone will get recruited, so some players will lose regardless.

Past forum mafias have rewarded and recognized people who actually made good plays and had an impact on the game and half of them were on the losing sides of those games and I am sure this trend will continue. In my eyes continuing to fight for your team while there is still 1% chance to win is always better than surrendering the game with the argument "if you can't fight them, join them". The way I see it, playing to have fun should be the priority here. Giving up is not fun.

[Sonya]

verna, you got to realize mafias can't even win individually with the amount of protection the remaining town power roles provide each other.
it's a draw situation right now and all they can do is pick side, they either help town win, or help cult win. Helping cult win happens to make them win too, while helping town win screws the scum over all together and is just as against your win condition as helping cult.

[Verna]

Ok, I get it - you want your team to win. Can you please put down your "I am cult" glasses and look at the situation as a 3rd party. I had forgotten that Brain was cult and now his strange posts make sense. If you want to add to the discussion try to be a little more impartial.

The town has a doctor who will heal the bus driver and the bus driver will try to swap him with someone evil, that leaves the other two a fair game, not really the "soo much protection" you are giving them credit for. Sure they might do something else but it would be just gambling then.

Also - it will take both mafia to give their votes for the cult and only one of them will get recruited and then the cult will have an unbreakable majority and the game will end. How is it the losing mafia better off then?

[Sonya]

they'd get culted, eventually, if the game would keep going. I get it, you're town and want town to win.
But since emerald was so kind and told everyone she has no vest - i guess everyone knows velma has a vest now. Velma wont be healed, she'll vest. she'll drive the doctor who heals a townie. Now if you think cult will help mafia hit a different target after lynching the leader, you're mistaken. so, add a little wifom for a change and maybe velma drives a citizen for epic victory.

the only thing oranges could do is kill cl in secret at night, while reds kill the doc. that would leave 1 orange, 2 cits, 1 cult with cits deciding who to let win.

[Sonya]

nvm 2 cult. Still would be impossible to persuade orange to help cult at this point, he'd then team with town to kill a cultist and leave it at 1v1v1

[Emerald]

elixir, since when is emerald a female name? :D

[Brian]

Actually, it is a female name... Or at least, more female than male. I never saw a guy called Emerald, but I did see a girl... Well, in a game. But, that still counts. Fantasy names are rarely actually used to name a real person, and Emerald is a fantasy name. I think, unless there's someone out there actually called Emerald, which I highly doubt...

[Candice]

I am not culted, and I say this is the only move Chris can do in this situation. If he didn't, they would lynch him and the cult would lose. There's 0 question about this, he can't spin it any other way. But the mafia now knows what's at stake if he dies. It brings them down to the reality that "Hey, you're actually alone. That buddy of yours you thought you had left? He's mine. Not yours. Now kneel, or lose. " This is classic strategy on Chris' part, and one he saved for the very last possible moment to use if all else failed.

I will accept this conclusion under only the condition that I find mass role-claiming egregiously lame, and that the town and mafia basically dug their own grave in this game by choosing to take the low ground.

[Verna]

If you had actually read some of my posts you would know that I couldn't care less if the town wins, they played like crap the last 2 days. My main point is this - if I was mafia I wouldn't ally with the cult in such a situation in a million years, and I am arguing that it isn't the optimal way for a mafia member to try and achieve victory for their respective teams in this case, and it sure as hell isn't the fun and creative way to do so. Everyone can make their own choice in the end, of course.

[Yvette]

It all comes down whether you are playing to win or to have fun, really. I wouldn't condemn either choice in this scenario, except those who think they will win by playing straight against the cult.

[Candice]

If you had actually read some of my posts you would know that I couldn't care less if the town wins, they played like crap the last 2 days. My main point is this - if I was mafia I wouldn't ally with the cult in such a situation in a million years, and I am arguing that it isn't the optimal way for a mafia member to try and achieve victory for their respective teams in this case, and it sure as hell isn't the fun and creative way to do so. Everyone can make their own choice in the end, of course.

And if you had actually read or comprehended anything at all, you would realize that this is the only guaranteed win for said players to win. Anything else is a dice roll that is likely to add up to a town win if the mafia do not kill every night flawlessly until the conclusion of the game. The cult isn't even the most dangerous body at this point, the town still is even with them and the mafia should realize that the cult leader is defenseless at this point if the red gf has any idea of what his grave robber has been doing as of late. They might as well take advantage of lynching the BD for free and killing the cult leader tonight.

[Sonya]

candice, its what i said

thing is, jesse can override rosen's night kill vote with 50% certainty and jerry can be culted. I don't know if graverobber still has heal, probably not though, but if he had, lynching no one would still lead to cult victory

the only mafia who could still win (albeit low chance) alone are oranges, and only if they lynch bus driver anyway. That will lead to (best case scenario) 1v1v1 where town eventually will have to pick whether let cult or mafia win.

[Delores]

Well it's L-1, now we wait.

[Sonya]

boom baby, no they wont kill the CL, rosen finally saw reason.

[Todd]

damn I was getting my hopes up for a town win.

[Jimmy1]

Lol this was unexpected.

[Delores]

I want a game with no cult, it fucks mafia over rather badly.

[Joshua]

Town could just mass sucide to prevent any more mafia from winning.

[Todd]

I want a game with no cult, it fucks mafia over rather badly.


cult is fine, it is the student that fucked over the mafia

[Janet]

Gladys has no abilities to use tonight. Unless she saved the heal last night which seems extremely unlikely. Perhaps an extreme gamble that neither mafia would shoot the cult leader as long as the masons were going to check them?

Gladys could assume stopping the red but we didn't have anyone in the orange until last night. I'm curious why they decided to shoot who they did.

I'm assuming Gladys has no heal though so if the cult still manages to win though I will be rather surprised. The only way to stay alive is to cult Jerry or demoralize him into not attacking. If the doctor realizes this then all he has to do is anti cult Jerry. Which he will probably do anyway since he might not be sure who the disguiser is.

[Janet]

On the other hand Chris is emphasizing his vulnerability so much it makes me think maybe Gladys really did save the heal.

[Elizabeth]

This sucks. There is no longer anyway anyone other then the cult to win that ic. They will probably be 1 more night just in case something VERY special happens, then endgame :(

[Candice]

As far as I can tell the town doesn't even realize that Gladys isn't the gf. Their chances of even preventing a cult on the gf are pretty slim.

[Sonya]

Well duh, all 3 active cultists hinted that gladys is graverobber, even I would realize it after a while. The person with the power to anticult is Vorn, and im pretty sure he finally got it. I'm guessing velma will bus one mafia with a citizen and vorn will anticult another one, possibly hoping to make them cult a town and turn the mafia against them.

[Brian]

Elixir ended the day sooner than it should have ended... Technically Jerry had time to hammer Velma, so ending the day sooner was a bad call... Elixir should have left the thread open stating that any vote change past the deadline won't count.

[Elixir]

I have a plan to make sure the day ends fine. (it was 45 mins early.)
I got literally 5 minutes warning to get stuff for a flight.

I didnt even think i would have net access so i thought it would remain open for like 48 hours with everyone wondering where I'd gone with all kinds of post lynched chat

I got a pm from jerry though anyone could have changed their votes in that time so ill run a private vote

Relax Brian, you guys will win. Dont judge me

[Brian]

I just said what would have been better, don't take it so harsh. No one would blame you if you're under stress because of RL stuff.

[Elizabeth]

Looks like Cult victory.

I didn't like a lot of stuff Ralph did while I was alive, but he impressed me at the end. The 1 thing I'm disapointed about is that as a last resort, blunt threats could have made a difference. Example "Rosenberg, if you don't vote with the Town, I will make you un-cultable from now till the end of the game, ensuring you shall lose". It may not have worked, but it also could have caused a different out come.

[Sonya]

graverobber has a steal left: they'd wifom till they hit one mafia, then block to get the other. just takes time.

[Todd]

Mafia knows that doc is going to anti cult so they will probably go after Velma, the way I figure it if she is smart enough to switch herself with the cult leader we still have a shot.

[Elizabeth]

Sadly, it looks like Velma is about to get lynched, and the GF is about to get culted :(

[Sonya]

Bitches, you need to calm down. Cult totally deserves to win. And even so, there is a way to make it lose still

[Theodore]

FUCK THE POLICE! DESTROY THE ESTABLISHMENT!

[Joshua]

FUCK THE POLICE! DESTROY THE ESTABLISHMENT!


But.... your the police....

[Velma]

Bitches, you need to calm down. Cult totally deserves to win. And even so, there is a way to make it lose still


Lolno, cult played almost as badly as the town this game.
You were pretty bad at hiding you were scum D1, this is why I bussed you.
Janet was obviously cult.
Brian got outed like D3.
and we all knew when Gladys got culted too.
Cult played terrible. They only one because people threw the game for their factions

[Sonya]

Bitches, you need to calm down. Cult totally deserves to win. And even so, there is a way to make it lose still


Lolno, cult played almost as badly as the town this game.
You were pretty bad at hiding you were scum D1, this is why I bussed you.
Janet was obviously cult.
Brian got outed like D3.
and we all knew when Gladys got culted too.
Cult played terrible. They only one because people threw the game for their factions


You're just pissed and jealous.
1. Whatever i appeared to you day 1 is irrelevant: a stealth claimed bus driver was scummiest scum to you last game so you shot him. i've evaded the brightest of minds till day 4 and would evade them a lot longer if not the mass-claim and janets fuckups. And FYI, gj driving day 1, oh skilled one.
2. What janet was I am not responsible for, i needed her to find beast, and because her mafia kept fucking with me. Was a good choice.
3. Brian got investigated which is unlucky but not unskilled. He was playing almost as i would have.
4. Ofc you all knew gladys was culted. She confessed.
5. 2 of my cultists got killed, and one I was roleblocked out of: this is terrible luck compensated by student's help.
6. Nobody threw the game yet - what mafia did was the only way for them to have a chance at victory. I guess you wanted them to hand the victory to the town, sorry it didnt go your way. Mafias can easily kill CL tonight and have a bigger chance to win than helping you.
Town mislynched every single time except the beast; mass claimed, shot a mayor, healed a consort, drove day 1, mismasoned twice, failed to lynch 2 outed cult leaders and many other derp things. Dont even compare us, i've been evaluating my actions ever since i died and there is very little i could do to make things turn out better. Even culting the vig the night i died would arguably be a worse decision than mine.

[Velma]

Bitches, you need to calm down. Cult totally deserves to win. And even so, there is a way to make it lose still


Lolno, cult played almost as badly as the town this game.
You were pretty bad at hiding you were scum D1, this is why I bussed you.
Janet was obviously cult.
Brian got outed like D3.
and we all knew when Gladys got culted too.
Cult played terrible. They only one because people threw the game for their factions


You're just pissed and jealous.
1. Whatever i appeared to you day 1 is irrelevant: a stealth claimed bus driver was scummiest scum to you last game so you shot him. i've evaded the brightest of minds till day 4 and would evade them a lot longer if not the mass-claim and janets fuckups. And FYI, gj driving day 1, oh skilled one.
2. What janet was I am not responsible for, i needed her to find beast, and because her mafia kept fucking with me. Was a good choice.
3. Brian got investigated which is unlucky but not unskilled. He was playing almost as i would have.
4. Ofc you all knew gladys was culted. She confessed.
5. 2 of my cultists got killed, and one I was roleblocked out of: this is terrible luck compensated by student's help.
6. Nobody threw the game yet - what mafia did was the only way for them to have a chance at victory. I guess you wanted them to hand the victory to the town, sorry it didnt go your way. Mafias can easily kill CL tonight and have a bigger chance to win than helping you.
Town mislynched every single time except the beast; mass claimed, shot a mayor, healed a consort, drove day 1, mismasoned twice, failed to lynch 2 outed cult leaders and many other derp things. Dont even compare us, i've been evaluating my actions ever since i died and there is very little i could do to make things turn out better. Even culting the vig the night i died would arguably be a worse decision than mine.


Jeez, phillie, I thought you were smart, but you don't even read. FIRST LINE SAYS: cult played ALMOST as badly as town did. I recognize town did terrible. Also, bus D1 because of my secondary objective, but a scum with a town while protecting the town from a death. Denita never stealth claimed. Nice try. and YES, THE MAFIA THREW THE GAME, THEY GAVE UP AND SIDED WITH CULT.

The best outcome for town now it, Orange kills the cult, Jerry enforces Rosenberg, Ralph anti-cults Jerry, and then its a 3v1v2 2 town 1 cult 2 mafia.

Dont try to act all high and mighty, you did shit all this game, and played at the same skill level as I did. Everything I did, I did with a reason. Day 1 nameclaimed to see who would bite, then posted the song as a decoy. You said you knew who I was, I knew there was no way you could when you said the song helped. So I bussed you Yolanda because she did nothing. Night 2 I bussed Roger and Candice, I thought one of them was scum, still trying to get my objective. Night 3 Olga and Roger, again knew one was scum. Night 4, Mayor and Phillip, figured th vig wouldnt be a retard and would shoot someone who was cult leader material or obvious mafia, like Jerry but he was a troll.

Every night except night 4 I drove a scum with a town, essentially doing what my objective asked of me.

Town mislynched lurkers and people who were acting like scum. Take Yolanda, she pretty much did nothing, same with Nina.

We didnt play nearly as bad as you think we did

[Joshua]

6. Mafias can easily kill CL tonight and have a bigger chance to win than helping you.

Town mislynched every single time except the beast; mass claimed, shot a mayor, healed a consort, drove day 1, mismasoned twice, failed to lynch 2 outed cult leaders and many other derp things. Dont even compare us, i've been evaluating my actions ever since i died and there is very little i could do to make things turn out better. Even culting the vig the night i died would arguably be a worse decision than mine.


6. Naw, mafia's choice that day was either submit to rule of cult, or lynch cult leader and hope for the best. If they try to kill the cult leader, which either both of them try to do or it isn't likely enough to happen, in which case another culting will most likely get off and any sucides to be delayed another day. Neither mafia will try to kill the cult leader, they had their chance today and they decided to go against it.

Elixir, speed this thing up. Let the cult decide 2 people that will win in addtion to cult, and doctor to pick one person that will not become cult. (unknown to each other)

[Sonya]

your post is so wrong on so many levels, dude. Cult played damn good thank you very much. And by that i dont mean myself, i mean us all.
Killing you was the only way for mafia to have a chance to win.
And im not high and mighty and not even mvp: i'm just implying town played terrible, not even close to what cult did.

[Yvette]

Truth is, town played horribly. This was the worst town ever seen on a COM Forum Mafia. What philie said is 100% true. You lynched people without the shadow of a logic basis, citizens refused to play and voted without even reading the thread; the only people that showcased any amount of brainskill were originally scum or culted shortly thereafter. The ones who weren't killed before the end of day 2, that is.
Town followed the leads of scum countless times, even on day 6, when you had the chance to lynch the cult leader, you chose to lynch the spree killer instead, forever sealing your fate. The only display of skill has been made by vornksr the last 2 days, but he played horribly until the end of day 5 just as everyone else.

Cult did good, until they started acting stubbornly and recruiting the wrong people, but none of this is even comparable to what town did.

Mafia did ok until mass roleclaim day, then everyone panicked and give up the game in order to make the beast lose.

[Sonya]

Cult did good, until they started acting stubbornly and recruiting the wrong people, but none of this is even comparable to what town did.


>.> sure, it looked bad when it happened, but imagine where cult would be now if i culted the vig or misculted on rosen. Lesson learned, but it turned out for the best.

[Yvette]

Culted the vig: you would probably be alive and sound atm
Culted rosenberg: you wouldn't have misculted

I see your point btw :p you couldn't know everything, and again that's nothing like what town did.

[Sonya]

Well see, if i culted vig, i'd live through the night, but Janet would still die, and I'd still get lynched with severed control of red mafia. Student would get revealed the same night and not get the chance to mess with people and probably would get shot at night and what not.
Culting rosen would be the best move, but fuck did i know Jesse didnt realize he can enforce his own mafia?:D:D:D
It wasnt all that bad bro:D

[Todd]

Town failed at life, seriously

[Jane]

Which Rosen? guised Rosen or me Rosen?

[Sonya]

guised one:D he's the one doing the killing.

[Candice]

The game could easily end now if the red gf kills rosenburg tonight and vorn doesn't prevent culting on jerry.

[Elizabeth]

Jerry voted with the Cult. He, very sadly, decided he wanted to win with the cult.

Some people misunderstand my hate of the cult in an FM set-up. I hate it, simply because it can cause people to secretly change allignments, and it causes people to betray there allies in an attempt to win the game with an enemy faction.

[Velma]

Scum wasnt the one to start Olga's bandwagon, that was me. And Honestly, we would be in just as bad a position if we lynched Chris instead Gladys would have killed me or Ralph, and then the orange mafia would have killed someone, and Olga would kill another. Town would be in an even worse situation.

[Elizabeth]

I don't mind Cults in SC2, and find them quite entertaining at times, but the Cult in SC2 carrys more limits, while still haveing a shot at victory. In FM, the Cult can't carry the same restrictions, and I hate how much it feels like a time bomb in FM :(

[Velma]

I dont think they should be able to keep their abilities

[Elizabeth]

I dont think they should be able to keep their abilities
That would hugely limit Cult power, so there would probably have to be some sort of compensation

[Velma]

its op enough as it is

[Candice]

Scum wasnt the one to start Olga's bandwagon, that was me. And Honestly, we would be in just as bad a position if we lynched Chris instead Gladys would have killed me or Ralph, and then the orange mafia would have killed someone, and Olga would kill another. Town would be in an even worse situation.

There is no worse situation than the one they are currently in. So no, obviously lynching Olga was not the best choice, considering SAS sucks ass at killing with it.

[Velma]

Also, jerry and Rosenberg are on the same mafia. So Jerry will enforce Rosenberg, theyll kill cult leader, and Ralpg will anti-cult Jerry

[Elixir]

Also, jerry and Rosenberg are on the same mafia. So Jerry will enforce Rosenberg, theyll kill cult leader, and Ralpg will anti-cult Jerry


No theyre not.

[Sonya]

cult is fine.
Usually games have more kpn, and no beast to waste a day lynch.
If not for Candice you'd be mass claiming to find cult leader instead. Just watch all the previous games: cult is tough but balanced, and it would be dead now if not the student who was of great help.
Cult is also very vulnerable and shit, takes 3 flawless days to get to same power as mafia.
You guys are just pissed.

Also dumdums, voting with chris is the only chance for mafia to win.
scenario where chris is lynched:
3 cultists die, mafias are to attack the town
Velma has vest, she uses it, busses Ralph with a mafia, Ralph heals a cit. 3/4 towns INVULNERABLE, if you wifomed there would be 4/4 perfectly safe ones. Mafias chances to score 2 town kills at night= minimal.
result next day: 4 (3 if mafia gets lucky) town vs 1 cult vs 2 mafia. No lynch or complete town dominance (lynching whoever helps reduce kpn, game over)

Lynching velma:
3 town left, mafia cant kill any more town to prevent game over; Vorn will probably enforce red GF.
Should Chris choose to recruit red gf whilst he tries to shoot chris and fails, 3/4 cults die, 1 mafia x 1 mafia x 1 cult vs 3 town remain.
Should orange attack town while red attack chris, 1v1v1v2town remain, a mexican standoff even, where everyone could still win = more win chances for mafia.

Now stop bitching and use your head for once. Game is far from over in cult's favor.

[Elizabeth]

Also, jerry and Rosenberg are on the same mafia. So Jerry will enforce Rosenberg, theyll kill cult leader, and Ralpg will anti-cult Jerry
Jerry=Cole Macgrath

[Jimmy1]

This is my first time dying early in the game and I have to agree that FM dead chat is almost exactly like public sc2 dead chat in that the main conversation topic is how stupid everyone is :P

[Candice]

Also, jerry and Rosenberg are on the same mafia. So Jerry will enforce Rosenberg, theyll kill cult leader, and Ralpg will anti-cult Jerry

Gimme a fucking break. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THE ROLE LIST BY NOW? HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW.

[Candice]

P.S. The enforcer is culted.

[Elizabeth]

This is my first time dying early in the game and I have to agree that FM dead chat is almost exactly like public sc2 dead chat in that the main conversation topic is how stupid everyone is :P
More like finding someone or something to blame for there current misfortune :P

Cole Macgrath=Jerry
Macgrath Grave-robber=Gladys

Vermak Enforcer=Jesse
Vermak Disguiser=Jane/Rosenberg

Cult Leader=Chris

Medic=Ralph
Vigilante=Thomas
Vigilante=Alan
Citizen=Roger

[Sonya]

Yep, after they publicly admitted which team they're on, and dead chat full of spoilers, ralph giving the full role list and shit.
Agree with candice completely: HOW

[Sonya]

PS Jimmy you'd have been a cultist if you didnt die and if i wasnt a dumb fuck such as i am to make a mafia list day 2 catching some scum on it to get myself roleblocked.

[Elizabeth]

Fate of each faction

Cult: Guaranteed victory
Macgrath: Assimilation into Cult. Jerry MIGHT get lynched tommorow
Vermak: Last question of the game; Does Rosenberg have what it takes to get into the Cult?
Town: Ralph and another will die tonight. The last will almost certainly get lynched or killed, but has a 1% chance of getting culted

[Elixir]

Ok now calculate your fates assuming the gf kills the cult leader.

[Sonya]

Ok now calculate your fates assuming the gf kills the cult leader.

thats what ive been saying for the past 3 days.

[Elixir]

For the record I take his pm over whatever he says in the hideout. Assuming he wants to play for the win.

[Sonya]

OHH SO HES GON KILL CHRIS
EXCITINGS STUFF

[Elizabeth]

Ok now calculate your fates assuming the gf kills the cult leader.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

When I saw Jerry vote with the Cult, I thought "He's gonna pull a Rosenburg and ally himself with the Cult". I actually never considered he was going to ally himself with the Cult one last day before unleashing hell ;D ;D ;D

[Elizabeth]

Time to have a look to see the posible events of what might happen. If Cult targets Rosenberg, then him and Gladys could hugely impact the game if they live or die. I hate to say it, but if Jerry does this, I would want him to win above Town :)

[Elizabeth]

Another big factor would be which Mafia was assigned to killing Ralph. It sounds like Jerry is telling Gladys he will kill Thomas or Roger, and that Gladys should tell Jesse to kill Ralph, who is the only Town left who can do anything at night. He probably is also hinting that the Cult should cult Rosenberg tonight, and wait to Cult him Night 8. From there, he tells Elixir that he want to kill Roger/Thomas, then BAM, he PM's Elixir that he shall kill Chris ;D

[Elizabeth]

Sorry for quad post (no edit), but I'll right down my odds now, then post it 1st thing tommoro.

[Joshua]

I really dont understand why either mafia would kill the cult after deciding to lynch the bus driver, theres only 2 mafia left and certainly the cult leader would want to spite the GF in his defiance and cult him while he dies. I just dont get it.

[Candice]

Wow I wouldn't have ever anticipated something that is blatantly a possibility after accepting a free lynch on the BD whom offers town most protection in this scenario since ralph will not be healing people.

[Velma]

Jack -.- you have no real right to bitch at people when you said you're done with Forum Mafia. just accept the stupid people as being stupid and stop ranting at them. Also, I'm done with this Forum Mafia (not in the sense as fed up, but in the sense as I no longer have to time to put in the time to pay attention a lot) as school is getting hectic, so I really had no time to fully apprehend the role list, I just guessed by what people said. Now I know, thanks for the clarification Elizabeth, and not the condescension.

[Yvette]

Jerry killing the cult leader, now that would be a surprising finale. Even though that would be a stupid move from him, as he will surely be lynched the next day. Orange mafia might have a chance in this scenario, as do cult and town. That'd be the stupidest possible move for jerry.

Best scenario for cult would be culting jerry, jerry killing rosenberg, rosenberg killing ralph. Majority over lynches, no killing lefts: instant autowin.

[Candice]

Why do I not have the right to tell you how unfathomably dumb you are for not understanding what is happening in the game you were participating in at the time?


Rosenberg join me brother!


Ralph is almost accurate. :p I would suggest that you vote with me, Jerry, if you want to win.

Oh geez I'm so busy that took me all of 2 minutes to figure out.

How about this. If you aren't prepared and willing to spend as much time as necessary from start to finish to fully comprehend what is going on, don't fucking sign up.

[Sonya]

@raiden, turning on chris as jerry is a very likely red mafia win scenario. just saying:D

[Yvette]

Assuming rosenberg kill a town and 2 cultists die instantly, the following people will remain alive: 2 random town, 1 random cultist, jerry, rosenberg.

Who would you lynch if you were in any of these people?

Rosenberg will certainly vote for jerry
Cultist will vote for jerry for a 1v1v1 situation
Town will vote for jerry for a 1v1v1 situation

As i see it, there's no way for jerry to win. Everyone will kill him for being the invulnerable one. That is unless gladys stays alive as the lone cultist and dumb people still believe she's the gf :D

[Sonya]

That depends on who stays alive: 3 town could still survive you know
as in oranges dont attack so game wont end in cult win: 3 town vs jerry vs rosen vs some cultist (gladys might be lynched for being the godfather)
they could bring it down to 2town vs 2 different mafia or 1v1v1(v1) where town would choose the winner but can never win on its own.

[Yvette]

That still means red mafia will win only in a scenario where gladys is alive and town is dumb, which is not likely at all :D it may happen, but it's the most unlikely outcome.

[Verna]

Will this ever end.....

[Elixir]

Waiting for reds to make up their mind.

[Sonya]

are they even aware they have to pm in order for the day to end?

[Verna]

24 hours have passed. If they didn't submit an action - their loss, cult wins etc...? Red GF had 4 days to make a decision, lol. Fuck special treatment.

[Elixir]

Read night 7 closely.

[Sonya]

yeh but i'm not confident that Rumpel read it closely. I dont know whats happening out there but maybe he doesnt know he's delaying the day, or maybe he's dragging it out because he can? Thats not very nice is it

[Verna]

Stop telling me read stuff closely, I am one of the few people that actually does read everything. Go back and read my post with that in mind - I am obviously disagreeing with your choice to let the night run indefinitely and not the normal 24 hours. And I am telling you this because you are generally the perfect host and now you decision makes no sense at all and is just delaying the game.

[Elixir]

I'm not going to let things run ad infinite. I'll send a message to Jerry telling him to hurry up.

I'll step in and end it if it takes much longer, but you have to understand that the next decision they make can end the game.

There's still heaps of discussion going on.

[Velma]

orange mafia cant get a lynch off, red can, killing cl is the only chance for his team to win. Ralph will anti-cult Jerry, so theres really no point in Jerry keeping the CL alive.

[Todd]

dude hurry up with the night sequence, day vii started like a week ago, this game should be over allready

[Velma]

How about this. If you aren't prepared and willing to spend as much time as necessary from start to finish to fully comprehend what is going on, don't fucking sign up.


Seriously, this line is suited for way more people than me right now. Think before you speak.
I'm already dead anyway so any decision, ultimately, doesn't affect me a whole lot. I'm just routing for my faction in the stands now. You have no one to route for, so I'm confused why you're even yelling at me.

Wanna yell at someone? Yell at Thomas for being the trolliest vig ever. Yell at Olga for doing nothing EVEN AFTER getting her account. Yell at Elixir for being away do to matters during the game too, his participation is much more important. Yell at whoever, but yelling at me won't get you anywhere because I was nowhere near the worst player in the game. I was nowhere near the best. (That would probably be Rosenberg or Jesse)

[Elizabeth]

Assuming rosenberg kill a town and 2 cultists die instantly, the following people will remain alive: 2 random town, 1 random cultist, jerry, rosenberg.

Who would you lynch if you were in any of these people?

Rosenberg will certainly vote for jerry
Cultist will vote for jerry for a 1v1v1 situation
Town will vote for jerry for a 1v1v1 situation

As i see it, there's no way for jerry to win. Everyone will kill him for being the invulnerable one. That is unless gladys stays alive as the lone cultist and dumb people still believe she's the gf :D
You may be wrong. People might respect Jerry for his bold desicion above Rosenberg. Additionaly, Jerrys lack of an ally may work in his favour, because 1 of the very few ways left for Town to win would be if at the beggining or Day 8, it was Roger, Thomas, Jerry, Rosenberg and 1 of the current 3 cultists. Town+Jerry lynch the spare Cultist, Rosenberg warns Jerry not to kill him Night 8, Jerry ignores Rosenberg and kills him, Rosenberg kills no one, Day 9 starts with 2 Town vs 1 Mafia, Jerry gets lynched Town victory.

Long shot, but with so few people left, the biggest threat to the town would be a team of 2, which Jerry would not be a pair. The only way left for Town to win is to force some sort of Jailors dilema.

[Candice]

How about this. If you aren't prepared and willing to spend as much time as necessary from start to finish to fully comprehend what is going on, don't fucking sign up.


Seriously, this line is suited for way more people than me right now. Think before you speak.
I'm already dead anyway so any decision, ultimately, doesn't affect me a whole lot. I'm just routing for my faction in the stands now. You have no one to route for, so I'm confused why you're even yelling at me.

Wanna yell at someone? Yell at Thomas for being the trolliest vig ever. Yell at Olga for doing nothing EVEN AFTER getting her account. Yell at Elixir for being away do to matters during the game too, his participation is much more important. Yell at whoever, but yelling at me won't get you anywhere because I was nowhere near the worst player in the game. I was nowhere near the best. (That would probably be Rosenberg or Jesse)

You were the most influential town remaining and you didn't even know which mafia was on which team after they blatantly stated it. And I don't know why you're so surprised I am on your case after you start shit talking Philie for no reason at all.

And I have absolutely every reason to be rooting for the cult at the moment, as almost half my mafia friends are currently in or attached to said cult.

Also, fuck off for thinking that Elixir should be blamed for something due to him almost being hospitalized into having to deal with an emergency situation in his real life. Like, honestly.

[Velma]

You were the most influential town remaining and you didn't even know which mafia was on which team after they blatantly stated it. And I don't know why you're so surprised I am on your case after you start shit talking Philie for no reason at all.


Guess who started the shit talking, you and Phillie. So shut the fuck up you arrogant asshole. Im honestly sick of your elitist attitude that excludes newer people like me from becoming, "mafia friends," with other people here.



And I have absolutely every reason to be rooting for the cult at the moment, as almost half my mafia friends are currently in or attached to said cult.

That's good. I have no idea who you're friends are. So keep routing for them.



Also, fuck off for thinking that Elixir should be blamed for something due to him almost being hospitalized into having to deal with an emergency situation in his real life. Like, honestly.


It was just an example, I dont mean he should actually be blamed. Like, honestly.

[Sonya]

Bitches, you need to calm down. Cult totally deserves to win. And even so, there is a way to make it lose still


Lolno, cult played almost as badly as the town this game.
You were pretty bad at hiding you were scum D1, this is why I bussed you.
Janet was obviously cult.
Brian got outed like D3.
and we all knew when Gladys got culted too.
Cult played terrible. They only one because people threw the game for their factions


I disagree, this is where the shittalking starts and it's not with me or Candice.

[Candice]

You were the most influential town remaining and you didn't even know which mafia was on which team after they blatantly stated it. And I don't know why you're so surprised I am on your case after you start shit talking Philie for no reason at all.


Guess who started the shit talking, you and Phillie. So shut the fuck up you arrogant asshole. Im honestly sick of your elitist attitude that excludes newer people like me from becoming, "mafia friends," with other people here.



And I have absolutely every reason to be rooting for the cult at the moment, as almost half my mafia friends are currently in or attached to said cult.

That's good. I have no idea who you're friends are. So keep routing for them.



Also, fuck off for thinking that Elixir should be blamed for something due to him almost being hospitalized into having to deal with an emergency situation in his real life. Like, honestly.


It was just an example, I dont mean he should actually be blamed. Like, honestly.

If you wanted to make friends, shit talking is probably not the best way to go about it. This has nothing to do with elitist attitudes and everything to do with you trying to insert your opinion into something that you clearly barely have a grasp on. If you had asked for someone to explain what you didn't understand and then offered your opinion it would have been a different story. But that isn't what happened.

And I'm an arrogant asshole? I didn't even say you played badly. I just expect you to be able to take 5 minutes to read through dead chat and have a huge grasp on what is going on.

[Velma]

I did calm down and reread the bits of dead chat that were important

"at first I was like: Who the fuck is Velma and why is he so clueless?
then I was like: I want to murder him with a shovel.
when I checked who he was: oh, that guy *rolls eyes*"

For some reason I thought Candice said this but it turns out it was Verna. I take back my insult.

Also this was the start of all shit talking

Day 6, Page 4, Reply 53; Candice said


"First of all I want to say one thing: Let this night be proof that Yayap is not infallible, and that you people should THINK FOR YOURSELVES. Yayap in all his wisdom thought that there was still an arsonist afoot.

Secondly, Severn, you were easily the worst player in this entire game. You do not off-handedly clear 5 people 3 nights into the game. You might think it's clever cuz they'll think they are mafia but your mafia will not. You lynched your #1 priority target to keep alive, and were in fact pivotal in parroting my words earlier in the day. And it's no wonder you were shot after you accused Olga of not being the spree killer."

[Sonya]

severn isnt even you is it.
If anything the first sentence was criticism addressed to me and it was completely fair.

[Candice]

Yeah, this argument is directly connected with my argument with Severn before you died. I can see where you're coming from now. I apologize.

... Honestly, is that really what you think?

[Velma]

Yeah, this argument is directly connected with my argument with Severn before you died. I can see where you're coming from now. I apologize.

... Honestly, is that really what you think?


No -.- I'm just saying, that's where it began.

If you mean shit talking in this thread then this was personal, not faction shit talking





Also, jerry and Rosenberg are on the same mafia. So Jerry will enforce Rosenberg, theyll kill cult leader, and Ralpg will anti-cult Jerry

Gimme a fucking break. HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW THE ROLE LIST BY NOW? HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW HOW.

[Velma]

You know, this argument is stupid and we should just forget it ever happened. Because half of my anger came from the post I thought was from Candice but actually wasn't

[Velma]

Also I apologize.

[Candice]

Thank you. Now we can finally move on.

[Velma]

So IF CL dies. Who do you think will survive?

[Candice]

2 people will survive, if the mafia survive then the cult is still in a good position to win if Jerry ends up culted, suicide or not. That would give cult the ability to kill still.

[Sonya]

33,3333% for each cultist, while only gladys surviving could leave cult a chance to victory.

[Velma]

I still think Ralph is gonna anti-cult Jerry.

[Velma]

the culted (besides Chris) is Jesse, Gladys, Alan, and...uhhh..... that's it right?

If CL dies. 2 of the cultists die(like in FM3) so best result for town is if Alan survives.

[Sonya]

cult is going to lose.
So is town.

who will you root for, velma? Orange or red mafia?

[Velma]

2 people will survive, if the mafia survive then the cult is still in a good position to win if Jerry ends up culted, suicide or not. That would give cult the ability to kill still.


wait....still? They have Graverobber(RED) and Enforcer(OJ). which means the cult cant kill at the minute anyways. since Rosenberg is one half of the mafia. Well... I guess its cults decision anyways.....




cult is going to lose.
So is town.

who will you root for, velma? Orange or red mafia?


Red Mafia. They played a much better game and Jerry was pro-town :P

[Velma]

well if Mafia wins thats a good thing, because Mafia hasnt won yet.

I'm kinda glad its been a new faction every game.
Cult FM1
Town FM2
Serial Killer FM3
Everyone except Crimson FM4

[Candice]

Recruitment comes before killing. The cult will be 4 strong after tonight assuming successful conversion.

That means each cultist has a 25% chance to suicide. One mafia will be under complete control, so unless they both suicide then the cult can still kill.

And Ralph anti-culting Jerry is debatable, there is a lot of WIFOM to be thought about in this situation, as Jerry is the obvious pick to anti-cult in this situation IF Ralph knows that Gladys and Jerry swapped their roles.

[Sonya]

Just as pro-town as he was in FM3. He's only fullfilling his win condition. If he has to kill his and town mutual enemies along the way doesnt make him play pro-town:P
But as of now Jerry(red mafia) seems like the person with highest win chance.

[Candice]

Also, in case of a tie in the non-gf mafia, I'm pretty sure the kill comes down to random.org, so the cult could still technically direct the orange mafia's kill. The GF overrides Gladys' kill, so red mafia cannot be controlled unless Jerry is culted tonight.

[Velma]

Just as pro-town as he was in FM3. He's only fullfilling his win condition. If he has to kill his and town mutual enemies along the way doesnt make him play pro-town:P
But as of now Jerry(red mafia) seems like the person with highest win chance.


Honestly thought if Chris dies. out of the people still alive, who played the best game?
Rosenberg did well in hiding himself, until he was forced into a nowin situation.
Jerry was able to fool me and a few other townies into thinking he wasnt Godfather
Ralph did a lot of good healing last few nights
The citizens did shit all this game, they barely participated.

[Velma]

Also, in case of a tie in the non-gf mafia, I'm pretty sure the kill comes down to random.org, so the cult could still technically direct the orange mafia's kill. The GF overrides Gladys' kill, so red mafia cannot be controlled unless Jerry is culted tonight.


This is without a doubt the most WIFOM-y decision in this game.

[Sonya]

Best players imo: Candice, Gladys, Alan.
Best host is Elixir.
Worst player is Olga.

[Candice]

Illidan. He played to his win condition before and after culting flawlessly, he baited a cult onto himself by purposely misleading the cult that he still had a shot left and then helped them get where they are currently without a second thought.

The cult had Rosenburg figured out, Jerry was... well, I didn't lie about my guess that he was the cult leader but I think it was bait for me at this point. But Rumpel can go fuck himself, I'm sick of him winning because he is the least perceived threat for no reason at all. And Vorn voted for Raiden because he was pretending to be dumber than he was apparently. So whatever.

Yeah, Illidan deserves to win.

[Sonya]

I agree completely. Illidan was the only person to play flawlessly. I even knew he was out of ammo and still he made me cult him. Once culted he was super persuasive and diversed attention away from both cult leaders well

[Sonya]

*besides candice who also played amazing but got unlucky. Still Candice cant win anymore while illidan can

[Elizabeth]

Recruitment comes before killing. The cult will be 4 strong after tonight assuming successful conversion.

That means each cultist has a 25% chance to suicide. One mafia will be under complete control, so unless they both suicide then the cult can still kill.

And Ralph anti-culting Jerry is debatable, there is a lot of WIFOM to be thought about in this situation, as Jerry is the obvious pick to anti-cult in this situation IF Ralph knows that Gladys and Jerry swapped their roles.
I still think that the Cult Leaders secret objective could be "Cult Cole Macgrath". If this is the case, then the Cult may target Jerry, while Ralph anti-cults Jerry, which would cause every cult member to die tonight exept for 1.

[Elizabeth]

Best players imo: Candice, Gladys, Alan.
Interesting that you picked these 3 players, even though it looks like they are all going to lose :P

[Elixir]

All actions are in. I'll be rolling over when I get back from uni.

Game isn't over.

[Sonya]

All actions are in. I'll be rolling over when I get back from uni.

Game isn't over.


ohh shiet the doom is nigh.

[Sonya]

can we vote on what cultist survives?

[Sonya]

Best players imo: Candice, Gladys, Alan.
Interesting that you picked these 3 players, even though it looks like they are all going to lose :P


its only fair bro. If you look at their actions with unbiased sight, you might realize they did the best they could.

[Elixir]

For the record:
Random.org decrees that:
Jesses kill is taken over rosenbergs.
Alan and Jesse are... Unlucky.



can we vote on what cultist survives?


Random.org has spoken.

[Velma]

Yeah, Illidan(Alan) was probably the best person to play this game..... he was the MVP FM3 as well.

Have either of you been Citizen before. Most people find it boring but I kinda like not having any powers and watching stuff unfold.

I wish we could vote which cultist survives. I'd vote Alan.

Also, I think Rumpel wasn't handed this game like he was FM3, FM3, he sided with town and won because town stalled too much, this game he was an actual target, I targeted him for bus I think 2 or 3 times. He played relatively well

[Sonya]

My heart is broken.

[Velma]

If Jerry was culted....... well. Then town will have to vote him off. BUT if Ralph anti-culted Jerry AND Chris tried getting Jerry then town still has a chance

[Elixir]

If Jerry was culted....... well. Then town will have to vote him off. BUT if Ralph anti-culted Jerry AND Chris tried getting Jerry then town still has a chance


This is what happened.

[Velma]

PSYCHIC!

Also, I'd be amused if this ended in Nobody wins ending:

Jerry
Gladys
Thomas
Ralph
Roger
Rosenberg

Jerry gets lynched.

Rosenberg and Gladys kill Ralph and Thomas

Roger gets lynched

Rosenberg and Gladys kill each other

[Sonya]

actually no
town gonna love jerry for what he did, and hand him win.

[Velma]

That could change to a town or mafia win if Ralph correctly heals someone

[Velma]

actually no
town gonna love jerry for what he did, and hand him win.


we wont know until we know

[Brian]

-Recruit Ralph

Seriously, why didn't you? Or Chris? Even tonight, just to spite him.

Has it not occured to you that a doctor on the team is a must have... If I remained alive I would have pushed for a Ralph recruitment. No fear of the mafia, cult leader healed every night.

[Janet]

You're just pissed and jealous.
1. Whatever i appeared to you day 1 is irrelevant: a stealth claimed bus driver was scummiest scum to you last game so you shot him. i've evaded the brightest of minds till day 4 and would evade them a lot longer if not the mass-claim and janets fuckups. And FYI, gj driving day 1, oh skilled one.
2. What janet was I am not responsible for, i needed her to find beast, and because her mafia kept fucking with me. Was a good choice.



I don't have ill feelings to anyone critiquing my play. But remember a game is made up of mistakes and this type of game especially so. Here are a list of some of my mistakes:

Yeah I'm sorry that I messed up when I called you as a possible cult leader in red chat on day two. I was soooooooooooo wrong about that. You were totally right about evading the brightest minds. That is why you got role blocked and didn't tell anyone about it, thus making a whole faction think you were scum as well as the coroner. Nice post count btw! No one pay attention to lurkers at all!

I'm also sorry for stopping my mafia from killing you that one time. You know how I did that? When you told me to tell them you were citizen, because... you know cult leader don't show up in the same group as citizen right, right? Or when you were suggesting that I reveal to them you were cult leader and threaten to recruit one of them while they had a block available? Yeah I didn't do as you told me to and apparently that was a big mistake because you didn't die. Ah hindsight.

Oh and that other time they wanted to kill you too. I guess I can only stop one faction from wanting to kill you a night.

I'm also sorry for somehow thinking that Alan was out of shots when you wanted to recruit him. I have no idea how I came to that conclusion. I was just soooooo wrong. Good thing I listened to you. That went well.

I'm also sorry for realizing that the lurker who didn't post except to scream about how she wasn't buddying with anyone was gonna get revealed by the coroner. That made me perform the fatal mistake where I got the town to believe the coroner was lying uber hard. It was just terrible that I made my own mafia think I was protecting them not you. I wonder what happened with that whole thing. Oh yeah, you didn't get lynched.

I'm so sad that I revealed you as a possible godfather. It was really silly of me thinking that you were the most obvious scum in the whole game and that you desperately needed protection. Such a silly last ditch gamble.

I guess I should have just done nothing and not get blamed for anything and just let you die.

Oh and I'm so sorry about lynching Candice. That was actually incompetent of me. The cult really needed that extra win mechanic. It would have made for a GREAT GAME. I have so many regrets.

Sarcasm aside, no ill will. Ok maybe a little. But I'll forget it shortly.

[Jane]

TL:DR version of Janet's post: LOLNO Sonya

[Velma]

I'd say you played relatively well Janet, you're only mistake that I can think of was revealing me as arson/bd, pretty much proving you were a consig.

[Sonya]

Severn: I wont even address anything, because i would have to write a long ragepost and start an argument with another person. May you think you're right about your statements if that relieves you.

Brian: actually, i had no chance to cult ralph, neither did chris. The only free choice i had was night 1 culting you. what happened happened, and i wont blame no one even if i really want to. It was a good game nonetheless.

[Elizabeth]

Yeah, Illidan(Alan) was probably the best person to play this game..... he was the MVP FM3 as well.

Allan, I have to say, played well this game. What I don't get is why everyone thinks he was so much better a Vigilante then Thomas. Thomas may be a minor troll, and he did do 1 mis-shoot, but he picked risky targets, and ended up getting 2 hits, on people who may not have been lynched otherwise.

[Jimmy1]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Verna and Joshua should get MVP awards for making the fewest mistakes :P

[Velma]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Verna and Joshua should get MVP awards for making the fewest mistakes :P


Just Joshua, Verna made the mistake of crossing me :P

[Jimmy1]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Verna and Joshua should get MVP awards for making the fewest mistakes :P


Just Joshua, Verna made the mistake of crossing me :P


Forgive my crappy memory, but how did Verna cross you in Day 1 trollchat?

[Joshua]

Hurray! I have a good chance at awards this game!

[Elixir]

Cool Factoid:

I have a shortlist of players for MVP but im having trouble choosing one to give the prize to.

It is quite shiny, not gonna lie.

[Velma]

Cool Factoid:

I have a shortlist of players for MVP but im having trouble choosing one to give the prize to.

It is quite shiny, not gonna lie.


tell us the shortlist, well help decide

[Jimmy1]

I think Jane/New-Rosenburg should at least get a special mention for a well-timed disguise (even if it didn't help in the end)

[Elixir]

I make new day now.

[Elixir]

Student<->Mentor chat open