S-FM 111: ♥

[Sen]

♥

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPYZpwSpKmA


Setup: http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/22175

Players:
1.- Kusco
2.- Mateo
3.- CarolinaCrown
4.- Dagaen
5.- Bunny
6.- 42shadow42
7.- Cryptonic
8.- madbird20

Quick FAQ before you start asking:
You can't:
- Quote my PMs.
- Link to your QT.
- Post screenshots of my PMs or your QT.

You can:
- Use your QT at any time.
- Vote your Lover.
- Claim your Lover's identity.
- Buy drinks.

Roleplay:
So you and your partner decided to make a team with six strangers and pull the bank robbery of the century.

After the police chase, it looked like you've already done the most difficult part. They didn't know your identities, nor had any way to link you to the crime.
You traveled to Sen's Lair, that old bar outside of the town and started splitting the loot.

You got enough money to move wherever you want and to have a worry-free life with your lover until the last of your days. Or so you thought, until you intercepted that email from the FBI, stating that there were two moles on the team, who would give the FBI all the required information to lock the rest of you.

Maybe it was that couple that you picked up at the Chicago's train station. Maybe the crazy, sociopath teens who noone knew the week before the heist. Or maybe it was your lover.

Everyone started looking at the others in distrust. It was clear that noone was leaving the bar until they were done with the traitors.

[Sen]

5

This setup allows for a maximum of three lynches, and since you're experienced and I don't want to baby sit you, I won't set a deadline for the days. I trust that you will know when to hammer.

Sending rolecards now.

gl, hf. ^.^

[Kusco]

Hey guys, I'm gonna try something new this game by claiming my role first thing. I'm a lover.

[42shadow42]

Hey guys, I'm gonna try something new this game by claiming my role first thing. I'm a lover.

Failure to completly claim scum tell

Kusco

I am a Lover

[Cryptonic]

I'M HERE

[Cryptonic]

Failure to completly claim scum tell

Kusco

I am a Lover

purdy please don't attempt to start trains before we can see the relationships between everyone :D

[Cryptonic]

Actually, I take that back. I guess voting is how i'll see relationships LOL

[Bunny]

helloo everyone! =)

[42shadow42]

helloo everyone! =)

Who is your lover?

[Cryptonic]

Who is your lover?

Why are you asking questions without giving answers of your own? x.x

[Bunny]

Who is your lover?

more importantly, whom is your lover?

[42shadow42]

Why are you asking questions without giving answers of your own? x.x

Because if I answer they know what I expect, Its my method of reading, keep them in the dark until its too late.

[42shadow42]

more importantly, whom is your lover?

That's irrelevant, I was just intrigued by you specifically.

[Cryptonic]

That's irrelevant, I was just intrigued by you specifically.

inb4 shadow bussing himself away from Bunny, and them 2 are mafia togethers LOL


But anyways, what DO you expect? What type of knowledge is gained by knowing who's lover is who?

[42shadow42]

inb4 shadow bussing himself away from Bunny, and them 2 are mafia togethers LOL


But anyways, what DO you expect? What type of knowledge is gained by knowing who's lover is who?

Host meta information.

[Cryptonic]

Mateo is a criminal irl. Therefore, Mateo is Mafia.

Mateo

[42shadow42]

Mateo is a criminal irl. Therefore, Mateo is Mafia.

Mateo

Thats exactly the kind of logic, I'd like to know if the host would pull. So how bout it bunny who's your lover?

[Dagaen]

So Mafias can freely kill anybody, but if we lynch Mafia we are losing a Townie. That means the most profitable move for Mafia is to kill someone from Lover-Lover pairing. Perhaps we should reveal today?

[42shadow42]

So Mafias can freely kill anybody, but if we lynch Mafia we are losing a Townie. That means the most profitable move for Mafia is to kill someone from Lover-Lover pairing. Perhaps we should reveal today?

Yes a mass role claim is in order.

[Bunny]

Thats exactly the kind of logic, I'd like to know if the host would pull. So how bout it bunny who's your lover?

you?

[Dagaen]

Bunny, how could you betray me like this:(

[Bunny]

i have so much love to give =[

[42shadow42]

Did i miss something?

[Dagaen]

Well, today we have 50% chance of killing scum. (2 pairs contain a Lover out of 4). Fair chance.

[Cryptonic]

Well, today we have 50% chance of killing scum. (2 pairs contain a Lover out of 4). Fair chance.

If we pick 3 people today via random.org, then lynch them all in that order, each side has a 50% chance of winning.
I'd prefer us to wait and see who buddy's/busses with who's lover, first. lol

[42shadow42]

If we pick 3 people today via random.org, then lynch them all in that order, each side has a 50% chance of winning.
I'd prefer us to wait and see who buddy's/busses with who's lover, first. lol

I agree, it is too early to lynch, but I still think bunny should claim a lover. It is entirely relevant.

[Cryptonic]

Did you guys know that 25% of all Lover's are in Abusive Relationships?

[42shadow42]

Did you guys know that 25% of all Lover's are in Abusive Relationships?

I thought it was 50%, even if you are abuser you are still in an abusive relationship.

[Dagaen]

Ok, so we have to wait to see who is the most abused by Cryptonic.

[Cryptonic]

I thought it was 50%, even if you are abuser you are still in an abusive relationship.

:O

[Cryptonic]

ok, well i gotta get some work done, so bbs.
taking down my vote, just in case lots occurs while i'm away.
[unvote][unvote]

[42shadow42]

Daegan

[Cryptonic]

:(

[Dagaen]

Daegan

As always, I am unvoteable.

[Kusco]

shadow, you can suck my cock.

If anyone needs therapy for relationships, I'm available. Just don't expect the "I feel you. You just need to work things out" type of therapy. That's complete bullshit.

Cryptonic abuses Bunny afaik. Look at that creepy-ass signature.

[Bunny]

shadow, you can suck my cock.

If anyone needs therapy for relationships, I'm available. Just don't expect the "I feel you. You just need to work things out" type of therapy. That's complete bullshit.

Cryptonic abuses Bunny afaik. Look at that creepy-ass signature.

i think his signature is nice.

[Kusco]

i think his signature is nice.

Stockholm syndrome?

[42shadow42]

i think his signature is nice.

Obvious Buddying

Bunny
Cryptonic

[CarolinaCrown]

Hello, lovers. Why all the hate?

I suspect it's perfectly possible for there to be a lover-mafia pair. Maybe unlikely if randomed, but possible nonetheless.

Also shadow and kuzco are lovers

[42shadow42]

Hello, lovers. Why all the hate?

I suspect it's perfectly possible for there to be a lover-mafia pair. Maybe unlikely if randomed, but possible nonetheless.

Also shadow and kuzco are lovers

Good morning Carolina, actually that's not true, I am Bunny's lover, and I have determined that she is scum.

[Kusco]

Good morning Carolina, actually that's not true, I am Bunny's lover, and I have determined that she is scum.

Are you breaking up with me? What the hell. I put so much into it (including my dick).

Carolina, it's not possible for there to be a mafia lover pair. It's in the setup iirc.

[CarolinaCrown]

Are you breaking up with me? What the hell. I put so much into it (including my dick).

Carolina, it's not possible for there to be a mafia lover pair. It's in the setup iirc.

Right you are, Kent!

[Cryptonic]

Are you breaking up with me? What the hell. I put so much into it (including my dick).

Carolina, it's not possible for there to be a mafia lover pair. It's in the setup iirc.

has to put "iirc" instead of stating that he knows because he's mafia
????????

[Kusco]

has to put "iirc" instead of stating that he knows because he's mafia
????????

I was too lazy to double check in the setup. Don't get too high and mighty because you think you can read and know what an acronym is.

[Cryptonic]

I was too lazy to double check in the setup. Don't get too high and mighty because you think you can read and know what an acronym is.

dude, the whole point of this game is to read into what people are saying. Really, what else is there to go off of other than words people choose to use..
Kusco

[Cryptonic]

The only thing I took from what you said was you distancing yourself from being Mafia.

[Dagaen]

Kurco

Cryptonic is 100% right. "IIRC" is the same as admitting that you are Mafia. I mean, what can other possible explanation be? Nobody is using such scummy abbreviations!

[Dagaen]

Kusco

Uch.

[Cryptonic]

Kurco

Cryptonic is 100% right. "IIRC" is the same as admitting that you are Mafia. I mean, what can other possible explanation be? Nobody is using such scummy abbreviations!

lol

[42shadow42]

Let me share a quote from bunny in night chat, I know bunny is mafia cause she told me so.

Btw, are you scum? -42shadow42

Yes, I am. -Bunny

[madbird20]

Let me share a quote from bunny in night chat, I know bunny is mafia cause she told me so.

Btw, are you scum? -42shadow42

Yes, I am. -Bunny

Seems legit.

Hi everybody! So I guess we're mass role-claiming. You will NEVER guess my role! It's.... LOVER. OMG MIND=BLOWN.

[Cryptonic]

Let me share a quote from bunny in night chat, I know bunny is mafia cause she told me so.

Btw, are you scum? -42shadow42

Yes, I am. -Bunny

What's your angle lol

[Cryptonic]

herro madbird

[madbird20]

Herro. Since you're obviously here


Actually, I take that back. I guess voting is how i'll see relationships LOL

You seem to a little pre-occupied with getting information for yourself... Trying to decide who to kill, hmmmm?

[CarolinaCrown]

Herro. Since you're obviously here



You seem to a little pre-occupied with getting information for yourself... Trying to decide who to kill, hmmmm?

Well, seeing as mafia has no night kill, we are all trying to decide who to kill in the exact same way. In fact, Mafia will have a much easier time knowing who to kill, because it won't be the townies they were paired with.

madbird can I buy you a drink?

[CarolinaCrown]

madbird can I buy you a drink?

Platonically, of course

[Cryptonic]

Herro. Since you're obviously here



You seem to a little pre-occupied with getting information for yourself... Trying to decide who to kill, hmmmm?

Well, there isn't any night kill, so no! :smile:
I just can't trust anybody, and just trying to get reads off everyone. I've told my Lover (more or less)what i'm looking for, but that was mainly to see what his reaction to it was.

I'm fairly certain I can trust my Lover to be Town; he is being helpful and offering equal amounts of reads and answering questions.

[madbird20]

Alll righty then. Either way, I still dislike how Crypt implies a very selfish intent with the implication that only he should know alignments.

Yes. Pepsi please ^.^

[Cryptonic]

Alll righty then. Either way, I still dislike how Crypt implies a very selfish intent with the implication that only he should know alignments.
Yes. Pepsi please ^.^

I never said that only I should know alignments. You're just trying to spin my words to make me look less town, and that act in itself is not town-like. In the quote you copied, I specifically stated that people should vote, because that is how I, personally, will find it easiest to find relationships between people. I will tell you what I am looking for, but that will just change how people vote and react to my questions.

Are you needing me to make notes for you? I can do that, if that's what you're asking.

[madbird20]

You seemed to imply it. And pursuing potential leads is not un-town-like. I hate to use the tu quoque fallacy, but you also have spun my intent into something that it did not mean. By your own reasoning, this makes you un-town-like.

I only ask for as much transparency as possible, only withholding information when it would hurt town more than scum. Whether or not notes would help would be reliant on what the notes contain.

[Cryptonic]

How did I spin your words? How did you mean that other than how I explained it?

[madbird20]

You claimed that I was attempting to spin your words in an attempt to make you seem un-town, which logically would imply that I wanted to mislynch you. This was not my intent. My intent was to point out a segment of post that appeared to be made from an Anti-Town PoV and get your response on it.

[Cryptonic]

You claimed that I was attempting to spin your words in an attempt to make you seem un-town, which logically would imply that I wanted to mislynch you. This was not my intent. My intent was to point out a segment of post that appeared to be made from an Anti-Town PoV and get your response on it.

Well, alright then.
And I understand you want transparency, but you can obtain the same information I am taking in for yourself.
If any red flags raise, I will bring it up and discuss it with the rest of town to find out what they think of it. I'm not one to keep my thoughts to myself.

Also, if I explain what I am looking for, I will never find it.

[madbird20]

Well, that was fun. On to bigger and better things then ^.^ Crypt, what do you think about revealing Lovers?

[madbird20]

On the Lover reveal; the only pro/con I see are:

We can know if buddying is the result of a private Lover chat rather than Mafia chat

Mafia may attempt to use "Oh don't kill X cause it'll kill Y too".

Anybody have more to list?

[Kusco]

Crypt, I still don't see how using "iirc" means that I'm mafia. It just means that I was referring to the setup based on memory. And you're accusation that I'm trying to distance myself from mafia. Who would want to do that? Oh yeah, everybody in the game regardless of alignment.

I'm watching you, Daegan.

Madbird, I can't see any potential harm in revealing lovers since the mafia prolly know the 4 players with the townie-townie pairings. I mean that there is the possibility they might go for the weaker link of a pair but if the stronger thinks his lover is town then he would defend the weaker.

[Kusco]

Well, alright then.
And I understand you want transparency, but you can obtain the same information I am taking in for yourself.
If any red flags raise, I will bring it up and discuss it with the rest of town to find out what they think of it. I'm not one to keep my thoughts to myself.

Also, if I explain what I am looking for, I will never find it.

I think you're looking for people who are nitpicking and putting suspicion onto those you think are town while somehow slipping some knowledge that they should not know. Even if they don't slip some forbidden knowledge, you should look for silly and unreasonable accusations.

I may be wrong but that's what I'm looking for.

[42shadow42]

Seems legit.

I think is why she didn't mind, she didn't think you'd believe me.


What's your angle lol

Isn't that obvious, I'd like to see bunny lynched.

[42shadow42]

Since nobody seems to care for my Bunny theory, I suppose I'll propose the other. I believe Carolina Crown to be scum as well.

[Kusco]

I think is why she didn't mind, she didn't think you'd believe me.



Isn't that obvious, I'd like to see bunny lynched.

If I'm correct in believing that you and Bunny are lovers, then you want to commit suicide?

Are you that sure Bunny is scum?

[42shadow42]

If I'm correct in believing that you and Bunny are lovers, then you want to commit suicide?

Are you that sure Bunny is scum?

Would I be pushing for it if I wasn't willing to take the hit?

[Kusco]

Would I be pushing for it if I wasn't willing to take the hit?

Post some evidence. I'd like to see why you're so sure about this with your life on the line.

[Bunny]

I think is why she didn't mind, she didn't think you'd believe me.



Isn't that obvious, I'd like to see bunny lynched.

Lol I just think your posts are silly. When my lover says its ok, I'll reveal that. But not until then.

[Kusco]

Lol I just think your posts are silly. When my lover says its ok, I'll reveal that. But not until then.

"That" is unclear. Clear it up for me.

[Bunny]

"That" is unclear. Clear it up for me.

Reveal who my lover is.. Durr let's put our thinking caps on shall we!

[42shadow42]

Post some evidence. I'd like to see why you're so sure about this with your life on the line.

To be honest the main reason is she is hesistant to reveal our relationship, I believe it is the best interest of the Lovers to reveal pairings as the Lover. Already know, I asked her to reveal to test her response to the publicity of pairings.

Keep in mind, Lovers KNOWS 1 of 4 pairings, leaving 15 possible pairings.
The Lovers KNOW 2 of 4 pairings leaving 3 possible pairings.

[madbird20]

To be honest the main reason is she is hesistant to reveal our relationship, I believe it is the best interest of the Lovers to reveal pairings as the Lover. Already know, I asked her to reveal to test her response to the publicity of pairings.

Keep in mind, Lovers KNOWS 1 of 4 pairings, leaving 15 possible pairings.
The Lovers KNOW 2 of 4 pairings leaving 3 possible pairings.

What do you think the pros/cons of all pairings being public knowledge would be?

[Kusco]

Reveal who my lover is.. Durr let's put our thinking caps on shall we!

Maybe we should use the correct pronouns then?

Besides, you've basically revealed who your lover is in several posts.


To be honest the main reason is she is hesistant to reveal our relationship, I believe it is the best interest of the Lovers to reveal pairings as the Lover. Already know, I asked her to reveal to test her response to the publicity of pairings.

Keep in mind, Lovers KNOWS 1 of 4 pairings, leaving 15 possible pairings.
The Lovers KNOW 2 of 4 pairings leaving 3 possible pairings.

And if the lovers reveal the pairings, then we can focus on certain players in pairings. The mafia will learn the pairings, yes, but they already know who's safe for them to lynch.

[42shadow42]

And if the lovers reveal the pairings, then we can focus on certain players in pairings. The mafia will learn the pairings, yes, but they already know who's safe for them to lynch.

Yes, which is why we should publicly reveal, and we should lynch Bunny.

[42shadow42]

What do you think the pros/cons of all pairings being public knowledge would be?'

I've already expressed the pros, I believe there to be no cons, please enlighten me oh wise bird.

[CarolinaCrown]

'

I've already expressed the pros, I believe there to be no cons, please enlighten me oh wise bird.

The cons are that we don't get to have fun hunting for useless information.

[madbird20]

'

I've already expressed the pros, I believe there to be no cons, please enlighten me oh wise bird.

Ka-caw! (AKA: I got nothin'.) I too have already stated what I believe the pros/cons are, and I was curious to see if anyone else could come up with any. My Lover has stated his approval of us revealing, and as such we shall go first.

Kusco and I are paired Lovers (See what I did there? 8) ) Both he and I have reads that we have shared with one another, and are currently discussing sharing.

[42shadow42]

The cons are that we don't get to have fun hunting for useless information.
Useless information? You guys don't get it do you there are really only 4 people in this game each with 2 personalities. Or you can make it more complicated and consider it as 8 individuals 4 of which must survive, its up to you. I personally think its in our best interest to simplify. Don't you?

[Kusco]

Ka-caw! (AKA: I got nothin'.) I too have already stated what I believe the pros/cons are, and I was curious to see if anyone else could come up with any. My Lover has stated his approval of us revealing, and as such we shall go first.

Kusco and I are paired Lovers (See what I did there? 8) ) Both he and I have reads that we have shared with one another, and are currently discussing sharing.

Confirmation. madbird and I are gay for each other.

[madbird20]

Dude. I just realized we're not only gay, we're in an inter-species relationship. I'm a bird, you're a llama. I think Host has a good sense of humor LOL

[42shadow42]

Ka-caw! (AKA: I got nothin'.) I too have already stated what I believe the pros/cons are, and I was curious to see if anyone else could come up with any. My Lover has stated his approval of us revealing, and as such we shall go first.

Kusco and I are paired Lovers (See what I did there? 8) ) Both he and I have reads that we have shared with one another, and are currently discussing sharing.

Okay it is in my personal opinion that your pairing currently reads

So far we have:

madbird20 & Kusco
42shadow42 & Bunny
Daegan
Carolina Crown
Cryptonic
Mateo

[Kusco]

Dude. I just realized we're not only gay, we're in an inter-species relationship. I'm a bird, you're a llama. I think Host has a good sense of humor LOL

LOL

[CarolinaCrown]

Useless information? You guys don't get it do you there are really only 4 people in this game each with 2 personalities. Or you can make it more complicated and consider it as 8 individuals 4 of which must survive, its up to you. I personally think its in our best interest to simplify. Don't you?

It's neither. There is exactly one reason not to treat this like an ordinary game of mafia, and that's the lack of night kill. The lovers are just added flair. They'll put a little style in it, but good old fashioned scumhunting is going to be our best strategy.

Now to completely contradict what I just said with a question: madbird, what was the extent of your agreement to reveal?

[CarolinaCrown]

Kusco same question if you want to answser, I only asked madbird cuz he revealed first.

[42shadow42]

It's neither. There is exactly one reason not to treat this like an ordinary game of mafia, and that's the lack of night kill. The lovers are just added flair. They'll put a little style in it, but good old fashioned scumhunting is going to be our best strategy.


Hmm, this adds to my belief that Carolina is the other scum.

[Kusco]

Kusco same question if you want to answser, I only asked madbird cuz he revealed first.

We're still discussing what to reveal of our reads. You can wait, right?

[Kusco]

Hmm, this adds to my belief that Carolina is the other scum.

You're not the only one who is wary of Carolina.

[42shadow42]

You're not the only one who is wary of Carolina.

Lets start the first official train then?

Carolina Crown

[Kusco]

You're not the only one who is wary of Carolina.

In fact, madbird and I are sure that Carolina is scum.

[42shadow42]

CarolinaCrown

[Kusco]

Carolina, who's your lover?

CarolinaCrown

shadow, that was really fast to vote.

[madbird20]

-vote CarolinaCrown Fake vote to support pressure but avoid bringing close to hammer and ending our lovely infinite day too soon. Will real-vote if additional pressure is deemed necessary.

[CarolinaCrown]

Yikes! Why are you guys even suspicious of me? Can you elaborate because I don't really see it.

[Kusco]

Yikes! Why are you guys even suspicious of me? Can you elaborate because I don't really see it.

Who is your lover?

[CarolinaCrown]

Who is your lover?

Can I wait 'til I have consent? Consent is the most important part of love.

Also you don't have to share your leads, I just wanted to know what was the extent of the conversation as it pertains to revealing that you guys are a pair.

[CarolinaCrown]

Can I wait 'til I have consent? Consent is the most important part of love.

Also you don't have to share your leads, I just wanted to know what was the extent of the conversation as it pertains to revealing that you guys are a pair.

(though leads are always welcomed)

[Kusco]

(though leads are always welcomed)

Who is your lover?

[42shadow42]

Can I wait 'til I have consent? Consent is the most important part of love.

Also you don't have to share your leads, I just wanted to know what was the extent of the conversation as it pertains to revealing that you guys are a pair.

Marriage records are public information, there is no need for consent.

[Sen]

If anyone has Mateo on Skype, tell him to get his ass over here.
Night.

[CarolinaCrown]

Marriage records are public information, there is no need for consent.

We're not married, the state doesn't allow that.

[CarolinaCrown]

Kusco you have to ask three times in one post that'll do it

[Kusco]

Kusco you have to ask three times in one post that'll do it

Who is your lover?

[42shadow42]

We're not married, the state doesn't allow that.

Hmm, so Mateo, Cryptonic, or Daegan.

[madbird20]

Can I wait 'til I have consent? Consent is the most important part of love.

Also you don't have to share your leads, I just wanted to know what was the extent of the conversation as it pertains to revealing that you guys are a pair.

My leads on you: "CarolinaCrown - Opened with suspecting impossible Mafia-Lover pair. Appears to have been fishing for attentive players with that. Quite a bit of fluff in his posts, except for light Crypt-defense."

Please explain why you brought up the Mafia-Lover pair, which you obviously knew was impossible. Also explanation of Crypt-defense please.

[CarolinaCrown]

My leads on you: "CarolinaCrown - Opened with suspecting impossible Mafia-Lover pair. Appears to have been fishing for attentive players with that. Quite a bit of fluff in his posts, except for light Crypt-defense."

Please explain why you brought up the Mafia-Lover pair, which you obviously knew was impossible. Also explanation of Crypt-defense please.

Where's the crypt defense? I'm a very lazy man and I forget what I said. Also I legitimately was unaware of the mafia lover part. I was kind of hoping for it in my mind because I like curveballs in setups.

[CarolinaCrown]

Who is your lover?

I said three in one bubbo. Keep trying.

[Kusco]

I said three in one bubbo. Keep trying.

Who is your lover?

[madbird20]

Well, seeing as mafia has no night kill, we are all trying to decide who to kill in the exact same way. In fact, Mafia will have a much easier time knowing who to kill, because it won't be the townies they were paired with.

madbird can I buy you a drink?

Around here. You seemed to be blurring the lines between Mafia/Town in this post, in a way that in my mind was a passive Crypt defense.

[CarolinaCrown]

Around here. You seemed to be blurring the lines between Mafia/Town in this post, in a way that in my mind was a passive Crypt defense.

It's a bit of a stretch to call that a defense of Crypt. I thought you'd had a misconception about night kills, so I was trying to correct you / put in my own opinion on the lynch-only mechanic.

Keep trying Kusco, you'll get it some time.

[Mateo]

been at work all day then went straight to sleep. reading thru now. if im accused of lurking im day shooting someone

[Mateo]

i believe carolina to be scum, and probably lovers with dagaen. his reaction to shadows first official vote and asking for consent from partner to reveal when on the chopping block seems too neutral and trying to appease everyone

[Mateo]

carolinacrown

in case i cant check in for a while

[CarolinaCrown]

i believe carolina to be scum, and probably lovers with dagaen. his reaction to shadows first official vote and asking for consent from partner to reveal when on the chopping block seems too neutral and trying to appease everyone

Hm, interesting.

The way I see it, we are all decent players who know how not to play scummy (i.e. the "trying to appease everyone" mentality). The pairings were always going to come out inevitably, and on the first day no less since there's no time-limit. That's for reasons already mentioned - basically it helps town a lot more than it helps mafia to know all the pairings. So I was looking for whoever claimed their lovership first - leading that movement is a good way to seem townish, even though the movement itself is inevitable and doesn't really matter who leads it. That's why I asked about madbird's reveal - I want to know who instigated the reveal in that pair.

That's also why I don't see hiding my lover as scummy - it's information that's obviously GOING to come out eventually, and no one can possibly accuse me of trying to waste time since we have all the time in the world. I'll tell you my lover when Kusco can get the ritual right.

Right now, I believe there is one scum in the group of claimed pairs and one in the group of unclaimed pairs.

[Mateo]

Hm, interesting.

The way I see it, we are all decent players who know how not to play scummy (i.e. the "trying to appease everyone" mentality). The pairings were always going to come out inevitably, and on the first day no less since there's no time-limit. That's for reasons already mentioned - basically it helps town a lot more than it helps mafia to know all the pairings. So I was looking for whoever claimed their lovership first - leading that movement is a good way to seem townish, even though the movement itself is inevitable and doesn't really matter who leads it. That's why I asked about madbird's reveal - I want to know who instigated the reveal in that pair.

That's also why I don't see hiding my lover as scummy - it's information that's obviously GOING to come out eventually, and no one can possibly accuse me of trying to waste time since we have all the time in the world. I'll tell you my lover when Kusco can get the ritual right.

Right now, I believe there is one scum in the group of claimed pairs and one in the group of unclaimed pairs.

doublespeak

if it is inevitable, then it isnt a scum tell, as 2 of the pairings are both townies and one person from each of those pairings would eventually have to reveal the other

[CarolinaCrown]

doublespeak

if it is inevitable, then it isnt a scum tell, as 2 of the pairings are both townies and one person from each of those pairings would eventually have to reveal the other

I'm not saying revealing is a scum tell, I'm saying revealing early is.

[Mateo]

Hm, interesting.

The way I see it, we are all decent players who know how not to play scummy (i.e. the "trying to appease everyone" mentality). The pairings were always going to come out inevitably, and on the first day no less since there's no time-limit. That's for reasons already mentioned - basically it helps town a lot more than it helps mafia to know all the pairings. So I was looking for whoever claimed their lovership first - leading that movement is a good way to seem townish, even though the movement itself is inevitable and doesn't really matter who leads it. That's why I asked about madbird's reveal - I want to know who instigated the reveal in that pair.

That's also why I don't see hiding my lover as scummy - it's information that's obviously GOING to come out eventually, and no one can possibly accuse me of trying to waste time since we have all the time in the world. I'll tell you my lover when Kusco can get the ritual right.

Right now, I believe there is one scum in the group of claimed pairs and one in the group of unclaimed pairs.

what constitutes early?

[CarolinaCrown]

what constitutes early?

Relative to the other claimers.

Shadow/Bunny claimed first, but that doesn't really count towards what I was looking for, since shadow claimed to try and tell people Bunny is scum. Speaking of which, shadow, are you still convinced of that?

Then madbird/Kusco claimed. I want to know more about that claim because it was consensual and unprompted. I suppose that's what makes it more of a tell.

[Dagaen]

So Shadow & Bunny, Madbird and Kusco, Carolina & Cryptonic, Mateo and me. There, no more secrets.

[CarolinaCrown]

So Shadow & Bunny, Madbird and Kusco, Carolina & Cryptonic, Mateo and me. There, no more secrets.

Aw Dagaen the mystery is gone! I was hoping I'd get Kusco to post "Who is your lover" another 5-6 times...

[Mateo]

Aw Dagaen the mystery is gone! I was hoping I'd get Kusco to post "Who is your lover" another 5-6 times...

trying to make town lose interest in the game by dragging it out

[CarolinaCrown]

trying to make town lose interest in the game by dragging it out

I've seen some silly accusations, but this is just poor.

[Cryptonic]

Well, that was fun. On to bigger and better things then ^.^ Crypt, what do you think about revealing Lovers?

idk, it has no change on anything.


Crypt, I still don't see how using "iirc" means that I'm mafia. It just means that I was referring to the setup based on memory. And you're accusation that I'm trying to distance myself from mafia. Who would want to do that? Oh yeah, everybody in the game regardless of alignment.

I'm watching you, Daegan.

Madbird, I can't see any potential harm in revealing lovers since the mafia prolly know the 4 players with the townie-townie pairings. I mean that there is the possibility they might go for the weaker link of a pair but if the stronger thinks his lover is town then he would defend the weaker.

Please, I'm not saying "iirc" is a mafia acronym.. Everything people post in Mafia is to make people think certain things, to use for ammo at a later date. One of your first posts is you distancing yourself from being Mafia by not knowing a critical part of the Mafia mechanics. That's why it's scummy.


I think you're looking for people who are nitpicking and putting suspicion onto those you think are town while somehow slipping some knowledge that they should not know. Even if they don't slip some forbidden knowledge, you should look for silly and unreasonable accusations.

I may be wrong but that's what I'm looking for.

You would be wrong.



Since nobody seems to care for my Bunny theory, I suppose I'll propose the other. I believe Carolina Crown to be scum as well.

I think this one is more wrong than the last one.


To be honest the main reason is she is hesistant to reveal our relationship, I believe it is the best interest of the Lovers to reveal pairings as the Lover. Already know, I asked her to reveal to test her response to the publicity of pairings.

Keep in mind, Lovers KNOWS 1 of 4 pairings, leaving 15 possible pairings.
The Lovers KNOW 2 of 4 pairings leaving 3 possible pairings.

You have shit logic. And shit math. 4-2 = 3?


CarolinaCrown

You know, directing the lynch is the best way to get lynched. Why are we to believe you're not Mafia...?


Can I wait 'til I have consent? Consent is the most important part of love.

Also you don't have to share your leads, I just wanted to know what was the extent of the conversation as it pertains to revealing that you guys are a pair.

You have consent.


My leads on you: "CarolinaCrown - Opened with suspecting impossible Mafia-Lover pair. Appears to have been fishing for attentive players with that. Quite a bit of fluff in his posts, except for light Crypt-defense."

Please explain why you brought up the Mafia-Lover pair, which you obviously knew was impossible. Also explanation of Crypt-defense please.

You and Kusco got on my ass for using the EXACT same argument against Kusco, so you guys should stop being hypocrits. That's why I pursued Kusco in day chat while I pursued Carolina in Lover chat. Kusco plays dumb while Carolina tries to scumhunt even further. He questions me in Lover chat, convincing me that he doesn't trust me fully (something a TOWN Lover would do).


That being said, I'm certain you guys are barking up the wrong tree.
Currently, I want to lynch shadow for pushing lynches on everybody and have nobody even suspecting him. He should have no problem with this, since he wants Bunny to die. Next, I want to lynch Kusco & madbird, because one of them is definitely scum by jumping so easily on this train.
Actually, I could care less about the order.

[Cryptonic]

Do you guys really think someone who makes these kind of posts is scum:


Kusco and Mateo. That's my guess right now.

Kusco wants me lynched. Hard. It's over nothing (do you agree?) but he's pushing. Probably intentionally not doing the "three posts in one" thing just so I look worse for not revealing yet. I'm more and more in favor of lynching him. We'll see where it goes.
Mateo tried to give a reason to lynch me but IMO his post was just fluff/buzz/bs.

Other reads:
Dagaen: I revisited his posts. Still not much, but he sheeped your vote on Kusco. I think a scum Dagaen would be cleverer than that.
madbird: The fake vote really put him on my good side. Playing very tentatively. Asks questions that really mean something. Hunts for useful information.
Bunny: Always tough to figure out your girl, the posts are always so terse. I want shadow to share more on her.
shadow: Still townish. I think he's just misled. Going after the wrong information.


and I would agree with him that Mateo & Kusco could be scum together. That's why a hammer hasn't happened yet, because both mafia have voted >_> also, Mateo puts us at L-1 this early in the game.

[Cryptonic]

-vote CarolinaCrown Fake vote to support pressure but avoid bringing close to hammer and ending our lovely infinite day too soon. Will real-vote if additional pressure is deemed necessary.

nvm, not L-1, false vote tricked me lol

[Bunny]

42shadow is not my lover, Mateo is.

kusco I'm not gonna vote the same person 42liar42 is voting.
I'm suspicious of Mateo because he said he needs to get a vote in before it's too late, but days are infinitely long.

[Mateo]

if carolina believed the lover pairings were gonna be revealed eventually today anyway, it doesnt make sense to "ask for permission". the only reason to do that is fear of angering his lover, who hadnt cast his vote yet. typical scum tell of being afraid to step on toes.

and i cast my vote because i was going to sleep and didnt know if i would be working today. he was at l-3 so chill the fuck out

[Cryptonic]

if carolina believed the lover pairings were gonna be revealed eventually today anyway, it doesnt make sense to "ask for permission". the only reason to do that is fear of angering his lover, who hadnt cast his vote yet. typical scum tell of being afraid to step on toes.

and i cast my vote because i was going to sleep and didnt know if i would be working today. he was at l-3 so chill the fuck out


I had casted my vote.
Stahp lying.

[Mateo]

Do you guys really think someone who makes these kind of posts is scum:




and I would agree with him that Mateo & Kusco could be scum together. That's why a hammer hasn't happened yet, because both mafia have voted >_> also, Mateo puts us at L-1 this early in the game.

carolina dismisses my posts as "fluff" but doesnt give reasons. DENY DENY DENY

[Mateo]

I had casted my vote.
Stahp lying.

you hadnt casted it on carolina yet, which was the whole point of my post

[Cryptonic]

trying to make town lose interest in the game by dragging it out

He was probably saying that this post was fluff. How is this a legitimate strategy in a game?

[Cryptonic]

you hadnt casted it on carolina yet, which was the whole point of my post

Why would I vote Carolina? He's town.

[Mateo]

He was probably saying that this post was fluff. How is this a legitimate strategy in a game?

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/23014-S-FM-109-Stacking-The-Deck

we brain drained the town then chat died down, remaining town gave up. shadow was there.

bunny and carolina are the scum. crypt, we will die honorable deaths for the good of town.

[Cryptonic]

Please post a list of reasons as to why you personally think Carolina is scum.
He hasn't shown anyhing that would show that, in my opinion..

[Cryptonic]

Also, are you sure scum didn't just kill the talkative people while leaving the Lurkers alive? cause that's a legitimate strategy. Making the day longer isn't one i've heard of.

[Mateo]

fine, we kill kusco today

-vote kusco

[madbird20]

@Carolina: I was the first to suggest we claim Lovers. My exact post in our Lover chat was "The Mafia already know who NOT to kill. They have a Daytalk topic and would be 100% retarded to not use it to tell each other who their Lovers are. The only thing they DON'T know is who is paired with whom. I see no reason to hide our Lovers, other than potentially preventing them from killing off 2 strong players at once"

I posted this there about the same time that I posted my "What do you guys think the pros/cons of revealing Lovers are?" in Day chat.


You and Kusco got on my ass for using the EXACT same argument against Kusco, so you guys should stop being hypocrites. That's why I pursued Kusco in day chat while I pursued Carolina in Lover chat. Kusco plays dumb while Carolina tries to scumhunt even further. He questions me in Lover chat, convincing me that he doesn't trust me fully (something a TOWN Lover would do).


That being said, I'm certain you guys are barking up the wrong tree.
Currently, I want to lynch shadow for pushing lynches on everybody and have nobody even suspecting him. He should have no problem with this, since he wants Bunny to die. Next, I want to lynch Kusco & madbird, because one of them is definitely scum by jumping so easily on this train.
Actually, I could care less about the order.

It is possible that we are on the wrong train, but even if it is wrong it gathers attention and gets responses, which you yourself said was what would get you reads. Also, we both agreed in Lover chat to pressure Carolina together to see what responses would be; specifically yours and 42's. We've suspected you and Carolina as being Lovers, which you've confirmed. I am still deciding what Kusco's alignment is. Give me a few minutes and I'll post my reads on everyone.

Also, as Carolina as said, all of us know what is scummy and what isn't, so with that in mind, we can assume that none of us would be so retarded as to 100% trust our Lovers, and Mafia would know this as well and emulate it in an attempt to read as Town.

I personally have gotten the reactions I wanted out of pressuring Carolina. I just woke up so detailed analysis will have to wait a bit.

[Cryptonic]

@Carolina: I was the first to suggest we claim Lovers. My exact post in our Lover chat was "The Mafia already know who NOT to kill. They have a Daytalk topic and would be 100% retarded to not use it to tell each other who their Lovers are. The only thing they DON'T know is who is paired with whom. I see no reason to hide our Lovers, other than potentially preventing them from killing off 2 strong players at once"
I posted this there about the same time that I posted my "What do you guys think the pros/cons of revealing Lovers are?" in Day chat.
It is possible that we are on the wrong train, but even if it is wrong it gathers attention and gets responses, which you yourself said was what would get you reads. Also, we both agreed in Lover chat to pressure Carolina together to see what responses would be; specifically yours and 42's. We've suspected you and Carolina as being Lovers, which you've confirmed. I am still deciding what Kusco's alignment is. Give me a few minutes and I'll post my reads on everyone.

Also, as Carolina as said, all of us know what is scummy and what isn't, so with that in mind, we can assume that none of us would be so retarded as to 100% trust our Lovers, and Mafia would know this as well and emulate it in an attempt to read as Town.

I personally have gotten the reactions I wanted out of pressuring Carolina. I just woke up so detailed analysis will have to wait a bit.

Carolina has been giving decent reads on people, enough to the point where I don't think he is scum. I have reread our lover chat several times, pretending he is Mafia and saying everying in such a way to convince me of something else. I haven't been able to detect any of this language. While his slip like Kusco did make me question his alignment, he has won enough town points in other ways that make up for it. Kusco, on the other hand, keeps only defending the usage of "iirc"; that wasn't the point of what I called out him out on. Then he admits that he is trying to distance himself from the Mafia. I understand that town members would want to seem less Mafia, but if he KNOWS people do that, then why does he not understand when I call him out on it; it is something that Mafia members would be trying to accomplish in every post. It's hypocritical. Contradictions do not exist. Check your premises, and you will find that one of them is wrong. This is why I think Kusco is scum.


madbird, what do you think of shadow being the one to lead every lynch? I have always told people that the best way to not get lynched is to be the one leading the lynches. Do you think shadow is doing that?
Also, what do you supposed about shadow lying about being in Lover's chat with Bunny and posting lies in order to incriminate her?

[Cryptonic]

what do you think about shadow lying****
sorry, doesn't know how I wrote supposed.

[42shadow42]

Carolina has been giving decent reads on people, enough to the point where I don't think he is scum. I have reread our lover chat several times, pretending he is Mafia and saying everying in such a way to convince me of something else. I haven't been able to detect any of this language. While his slip like Kusco did make me question his alignment, he has won enough town points in other ways that make up for it. Kusco, on the other hand, keeps only defending the usage of "iirc"; that wasn't the point of what I called out him out on. Then he admits that he is trying to distance himself from the Mafia. I understand that town members would want to seem less Mafia, but if he KNOWS people do that, then why does he not understand when I call him out on it; it is something that Mafia members would be trying to accomplish in every post. It's hypocritical. Contradictions do not exist. Check your premises, and you will find that one of them is wrong. This is why I think Kusco is scum.


madbird, what do you think of shadow being the one to lead every lynch? I have always told people that the best way to not get lynched is to be the one leading the lynches. Do you think shadow is doing that?
Also, what do you supposed about shadow lying about being in Lover's chat with Bunny and posting lies in order to incriminate her?

I'll answer that 4 you I lied because bunny set me up for it in my inquiries I needed to force the truth out when nobody cced me I was able to deduce the pairings I had dagaen claim Mateo for further pressure. Now that the pairings are out this game gets much easier, I'm still convinced on Carolina not as certain on bunny.

[Dagaen]

Just remember: if you believe that someone is scum, you have to believe that his Lover is Town.

[madbird20]

Carolina has been giving decent reads on people, enough to the point where I don't think he is scum. I have reread our lover chat several times, pretending he is Mafia and saying everying in such a way to convince me of something else. I haven't been able to detect any of this language. While his slip like Kusco did make me question his alignment, he has won enough town points in other ways that make up for it. Kusco, on the other hand, keeps only defending the usage of "iirc"; that wasn't the point of what I called out him out on. Then he admits that he is trying to distance himself from the Mafia. I understand that town members would want to seem less Mafia, but if he KNOWS people do that, then why does he not understand when I call him out on it; it is something that Mafia members would be trying to accomplish in every post. It's hypocritical. Contradictions do not exist. Check your premises, and you will find that one of them is wrong. This is why I think Kusco is scum.


madbird, what do you think of shadow being the one to lead every lynch? I have always told people that the best way to not get lynched is to be the one leading the lynches. Do you think shadow is doing that?
Also, what do you supposed about shadow lying about being in Lover's chat with Bunny and posting lies in order to incriminate her?

On 42, I actually was thinking about this last night and basically, we know the game will end at or before 3 lynches, leaving room for only 1 mislynch, tops, before MYLO(I think that's the proper term)

Scum could attempt a gambit to force that mislynch to happen ASAP, by having 1 push a train on Town/Town, have the other Maf oppose it but not enough to stop it, have the lynch goes through, then they see what happens from there. Most likely Town would rebound on First Maf and kill him, which means the other Mafia could and would mop up Town points by being all "I told you so" then push a final mislynch with new good-standing.

42 could be attempting this in his own way, which is why I'm wary of him. I've debated this with Kusco and he agrees Mafia would want to do the quick-gambit to end game ASAP rather than playing cautious and being seen as Lurkers. For this reason I'm unsure of Kusco, since instead of pressuring the one who may be pulling a gambit he wanted to go after Carolina (Which yes I agreed with since I had my suspicions about Crypt/Crown being Lovers, and I wanted to know why you two seemed so sure of each other being Town. Now I know.)
(These statements are prior to 42's reveal about why he lied about Bunny being his Lover, but I'll keep them since I believe they're still somewhat relevant).

@42: So you were essentially trying to force Lovers to reveal?

[Cryptonic]

Just remember: if you believe that someone is scum, you have to believe that his Lover is Town.

madbird has built up a lot of town points for me while Kusco has done the opposite. town + scum.

i think shadow could be scum, but it could just be because he is lying his ass off and keeps starting trains.
However, I don't have any read on you whatsoever. I would appreciate it if you would post more :>

Dagaen, what's your opinion on shadow? If you think he's town, what makes you think that?
Who do you think the 2 scums are?

[42shadow42]

@42: So you were essentially trying to force Lovers to reveal?

Exactly, I was trying to force a CC from her partner, but the lack of CC or even hint that I was wrong led me to the correct pairings, on your reveal, I revealed the true pairings in my night chat based on my deduction.

[CarolinaCrown]

Crypt is defending me... an alarming amount. But I guess that's understandable if he thought I was L-1, and I'm still at L-2. I'll admit that I also feel pretty comfortable about his alignment, so this recent buddying is a little offputting but not really anything huge for me.

madbird, unlike Crypt you don't seem to be very fazed about Kusco's situation, seeing as it's a death sentence for you as well. How do you feel about him? Right now, yours and mine are the only uncast votes, and I'd honestly feel a bit bad lynching Kusco so soon because I think you're one of the strongest town players here.

shadow, did you really not anticipate that the pairs would come out on their own? hunting for that kind of information was a wasted effort, the only kind of reactions you'd be able to analyze from that are lover-pair reactions, nothing about scum.

[CarolinaCrown]

Exactly, I was trying to force a CC from her partner, but the lack of CC or even hint that I was wrong led me to the correct pairings, on your reveal, I revealed the true pairings in my night chat based on my deduction.

great, congratulations, you had information just a tiny bit earlier than everyone else, give yourself a big ol' pat on the back

[42shadow42]

madbird has built up a lot of town points for me while Kusco has done the opposite. town + scum.

i think shadow could be scum, but it could just be because he is lying his ass off and keeps starting trains.
However, I don't have any read on you whatsoever. I would appreciate it if you would post more :>

Dagaen, what's your opinion on shadow? If you think he's town, what makes you think that?
Who do you think the 2 scums are?

You've shown you don't believe the arguments for crypt being scum, but nothing you have indicated suggests that carolina maybe town, please provide specific information from night chat to convince me that she has been in any way helpful to the town. All I see is that she was very hesistant to reveal useful town info and came up with a BS reason why it was okay to do so.

[42shadow42]

shadow, did you really not anticipate that the pairs would come out on their own? hunting for that kind of information was a wasted effort, the only kind of reactions you'd be able to analyze from that are lover-pair reactions, nothing about scum.

The reason the question was focused was I was using the reveal as a tool for hunting, the fact that bunny did not want to reveal indicates that either her or her partner didn't want it revealed. If mateo was truly gone the whole time that means it was her own choice. I can't imagine why she would want consent prior to even being asked by mateo to hide it.

[42shadow42]

madbird has built up a lot of town points for me while Kusco has done the opposite. town + scum.


A lot of scum points for kusco? You have shown me 1. Please elaborate.

[Cryptonic]

On 42, I actually was thinking about this last night and basically, we know the game will end at or before 3 lynches, leaving room for only 1 mislynch, tops, before MYLO(I think that's the proper term)

Scum could attempt a gambit to force that mislynch to happen ASAP, by having 1 push a train on Town/Town, have the other Maf oppose it but not enough to stop it, have the lynch goes through, then they see what happens from there. Most likely Town would rebound on First Maf and kill him, which means the other Mafia could and would mop up Town points by being all "I told you so" then push a final mislynch with new good-standing.

42 could be attempting this in his own way, which is why I'm wary of him. I've debated this with Kusco and he agrees Mafia would want to do the quick-gambit to end game ASAP rather than playing cautious and being seen as Lurkers. For this reason I'm unsure of Kusco, since instead of pressuring the one who may be pulling a gambit he wanted to go after Carolina (Which yes I agreed with since I had my suspicions about Crypt/Crown being Lovers, and I wanted to know why you two seemed so sure of each other being Town. Now I know.)
(These statements are prior to 42's reveal about why he lied about Bunny being his Lover, but I'll keep them since I believe they're still somewhat relevant).

@42: So you were essentially trying to force Lovers to reveal?

Yea, I agree that the quicker a misslynch, the less town we will have to think about it and discuss whether it's a good idea. We should be taking it all fairly slowly.

That being said, I think we should look at who ISN'T being vote. Not just people, but pairs. Mafia will probably not vote Mafia nor will they vote their Mafia's Lover. That is why i'm fairly suspicious of shadow/Dagaen pair, shadow in particular (no read on Dagaen yet). If you look at the votes:
Shadow -> Bunny
Shadow -> Carolina
If Shadow is scum, he probably isn't paired with Bunny, Mateo, Carolina, or me.
Kusco -> Carolina
If Kusco is scum, he probably isn't paired with Carolina or me.
Mateo -> Carolina
Mateo -> Kusco
If Mateo is scum, he probably isn't pair with Carolina, Me, Kusco, or madbird.
Bunny -> Kusco
If Bunny is scum, she probably isn't paired with Kusco or madbird.
Dagaen -> Kusco
If Dagaen is scum, he probably isn't paired with Kusco or madbird.

So, possible scum, in my eyes, are:
42 & Kusco
42 & madbird
Dagaen & Cryptonic
Dagaen & CarolinaCrown
Dagaen & Mateo
Dagaen & Bunny
Kusco & Bunny
Kusco & Mateo

I can't think if there are any more, using this logic. but, looking at who's names appear most on that list.
Dagaen & shadow's lover pair
followed by Kusco & madbird's lover pair.

Basically the reasoning i'm following until a lynch is pulled off.

[Cryptonic]

You've shown you don't believe the arguments for crypt being scum, but nothing you have indicated suggests that carolina maybe town, please provide specific information from night chat to convince me that she has been in any way helpful to the town. All I see is that she was very hesistant to reveal useful town info and came up with a BS reason why it was okay to do so.

already posted a quote that shows one of the many reasons I think Carolina is town.
I could post more, but I'd rather not start posting all his shit while I'm thinking he's town.

[Mateo]

Crypt is defending me... an alarming amount. But I guess that's understandable if he thought I was L-1, and I'm still at L-2. I'll admit that I also feel pretty comfortable about his alignment, so this recent buddying is a little offputting but not really anything huge for me.

madbird, unlike Crypt you don't seem to be very fazed about Kusco's situation, seeing as it's a death sentence for you as well. How do you feel about him? Right now, yours and mine are the only uncast votes, and I'd honestly feel a bit bad lynching Kusco so soon because I think you're one of the strongest town players here.

shadow, did you really not anticipate that the pairs would come out on their own? hunting for that kind of information was a wasted effort, the only kind of reactions you'd be able to analyze from that are lover-pair reactions, nothing about scum.

since mafia isnt paired, he obvioulsy could use that info to scumhunt

[CarolinaCrown]

You've shown you don't believe the arguments for crypt being scum, but nothing you have indicated suggests that carolina maybe town, please provide specific information from night chat to convince me that she has been in any way helpful to the town. All I see is that she was very hesistant to reveal useful town info and came up with a BS reason why it was okay to do so.

Hah, look at all the interactions that went on when the train was barrelling towards me. While you were twiddling your thumbs trying to figure out mafia pairs, I was at work causing a stir. What mafia wouldn't jump at the opportunity to try to lynch someone who withheld information. That's why I think Kusco and Mateo are our boys, if you saw that quote crypt posted from loverchat. They both saw a potential train, and my quote unquote "scummy" behavior made them think they could score an easy lynch on me.

As for Kusco, well I gave him specific commands to get me to reveal and he wouldn't follow them. Of course he didn't know if I'd follow through, but if he really wanted me to reveal he would have at least trie, said something like
[QUOTE="Town Kusco" Who is your lover?
Who is your lover?
Who is your lover?[/QUOTE]

(to which I was prepared to answer 'my right hand' but that's neither HERE nor THERE).

I really do think this was intentional, to delay the reveal and make me seem scummier.

[CarolinaCrown]

UGH formatting.

[42shadow42]

On 42, I actually was thinking about this last night and basically, we know the game will end at or before 3 lynches, leaving room for only 1 mislynch, tops, before MYLO(I think that's the proper term)

Scum could attempt a gambit to force that mislynch to happen ASAP, by having 1 push a train on Town/Town, have the other Maf oppose it but not enough to stop it, have the lynch goes through, then they see what happens from there. Most likely Town would rebound on First Maf and kill him, which means the other Mafia could and would mop up Town points by being all "I told you so" then push a final mislynch with new good-standing.

42 could be attempting this in his own way, which is why I'm wary of him. I've debated this with Kusco and he agrees Mafia would want to do the quick-gambit to end game ASAP rather than playing cautious and being seen as Lurkers. For this reason I'm unsure of Kusco, since instead of pressuring the one who may be pulling a gambit he wanted to go after Carolina (Which yes I agreed with since I had my suspicions about Crypt/Crown being Lovers, and I wanted to know why you two seemed so sure of each other being Town. Now I know.)
(These statements are prior to 42's reveal about why he lied about Bunny being his Lover, but I'll keep them since I believe they're still somewhat relevant).

@42: So you were essentially trying to force Lovers to reveal?

If I didn't have a town read on you I'd think you were trying to discredit me.

[Cryptonic]

Crypt is defending me... an alarming amount. But I guess that's understandable if he thought I was L-1, and I'm still at L-2. I'll admit that I also feel pretty comfortable about his alignment, so this recent buddying is a little offputting but not really anything huge for me.

madbird, unlike Crypt you don't seem to be very fazed about Kusco's situation, seeing as it's a death sentence for you as well. How do you feel about him? Right now, yours and mine are the only uncast votes, and I'd honestly feel a bit bad lynching Kusco so soon because I think you're one of the strongest town players here.

shadow, did you really not anticipate that the pairs would come out on their own? hunting for that kind of information was a wasted effort, the only kind of reactions you'd be able to analyze from that are lover-pair reactions, nothing about scum.


I will admit that part of the reason I'm defending you is that I don't want to die. I hate dying in games and watching the rest of town overlook things and I can't bring these things to light. But, that's not the only reason. Carolina, you have gained many town points in Lover's chat by not focusing on anybody too hard. You have been giving every player the benefit of the doubt, and it's REALLY seems like you're not trying to force a misslynch. You're taking your time and carefully thinking about everything everyone is saying, while not even placing any votes. While this could be taken that you don't want to be seen as "buddying" to anybody, I see it more that you are wanting to take your time and observe everybody's action/reactions. I don't not think that this is something a Mafia Lover would do, which is why I have been starting to trust you.

I do not trust you fully, but I'm definitely not down for lynching the person I think is the most town (which will also result in my own death).

If it comes down to a mylo, I will consider taking one for the team if the majority of players thing Carolina is the scum, but as it currently stands, I don't agree with lynching Carolina when I think he's Town. I'm Town, and I think Carolina is town, that is why I don't want our lover pairing to die.

On the other hand, Kusco has been extremely defensive. madbird, you pretty much have given me a solid town read. I feel that the questions you ask and the answer you give are that of someone who is definitely town. However, I do not feel the same way about Kusco. I would really value your input on the reads you have gotten from Kusco in your nightchat before any sort of lynch pulls through.

[madbird20]

@Carolina: I am always unfazed by the idea of dying as Town if it provides a net benefit over scum. The only bad thing that could happen in this game is if we lynch one of the Lover/Lover combos, which as I read our Lover chat, I am not sure we are one of them. I had planned on pressuring Kusco privately in our Lover chat, but he's not on right now and my suspicions are growing. The biggest thing I'm scared of right now is Host Meta. If Sen was watching FM XIX, he would know my greatest weakness if subliminal persuasion. Titus recognized this in me and we probably all know what happened there. This is why I don't entirely trust myself to make the right call on Kusco, and as such I will be synopsizing our Lover chat at the end of this post.



In our Lover chat, I've been the one leading for the most part.

First off, we started with typical greetings, and Kusco asked about Lover pairs. We theorized for a bit, decided Mafia would try to quietly defend their Lovers, then he said "And I'm pretty sure that it's beneficial for me to post my reads here. I'm still not 100% sure if you're town or mafia but I can certainly discuss reads with you. " 45 minutes later, he had not posted his reads, so I posted mine.
Kusco - MAH BUTT-BUDDEH.
Mateo - Can haz moar post?
CarolinaCrown - Opened with suspecting impossible Mafia-Lover pair, then says Shadow/Kusco are Lovers. Suspected Lover of Crypt.
Dagaen - Began with focus on Lover mechanics, light trolling in the form of overt Crypt buddy.
Bunny - Mostly evaded 42's pressure and no posts of substance.
42shadow42 - Instantly started scum hunting and placed vote on Kusco, then quickly began pressuring Bunny, immediately asking for her Lover. Most likely RVS vote, but he claimed he wanted it for Host Meta info. Persisted in wanting Bunny to claim her Lover, claims to be said Lover.
Cryptonic - Wary. Not entirely sure, but I'm watching him. Doesn't seem to like 42 all that much.
madbird20 - The epitome of Towniness ^.^ 13 minutes later he posted his
1.- Kusco - That handsome son of a bitch
2.- Mateo - lurking bastard
3.- CarolinaCrown - idiot who doesn't think for himself
4.- Dagaen - Buddy-buddy with Crypt but prolly not lovers.
5.- Bunny - She's a liar or a terrible troll. She's pretty much confirmed that 42 is her lover and then she denies it. Just a bit scummy imo
6.- 42shadow42 - Depending on whether Bunny is his lover then this could be interesting. If they're pulling some gambit to see the reactions then it's a risky one.
7.- Cryptonic - Nitpicky and scummy. Too paranoid and jumpy
8.- madbird20 - Unlikely to be scum based on reads. 1/2 chance of being scum based on mechanics.
Then said he wasn't sure Crypt was scum, but he thought Crypt was scummy for pressuring based on "iirc". We then discussed host using empathy and like-mindedness to pair people.

After that: "Hey, should we reveal that we think Carolina is scummy and hasn't thought for himself at all? I'm leaning towards doing so. It might get Crypt to reveal that he's Carolina's lover and then we could pull Carolina's post as evidence. ". After we voted Carolina, he said he was interested in hearing reactions specifically from Bunny/Crypt. Wanted Mateo to talk, didn't mention 42.

I brought up the quick-win gambit Mafia might try and he replied "It's possible. His(42's) vote was REALLY fast. Or if Crypt is Carolina's lover and is mafia then 42 could be thinking to mop up with his town points. " He also said that the one dying in my quick-win scenario would need to be heavily persuaded, but he agreed it was likely. We also noticed how 42 thought Carolina was scummy but waited for us to initiate pressure before voting

And that's everything. Gosh that took forever x_x

I would like to ask you guys to read that and give opinions on if you think Kusco and I are one of the two Lover/Lover combos.

@42: I don't want to discredit anyone. I am merely stating my thought process on you at 1:36AM last night :P

[CarolinaCrown]

Huh, Kusco's reads are pretty independent from yours madbird, but they're also pretty vaguely negative... I'm a little less convinced about him being scum, but I'm still quite wary.

[Dagaen]

Hmm, it seems I can't access all posts on quicktopic, wth?

Anyway, Shadow proposed that we claim being lovers with someone else and I think it was good idea - that way we could gather some additional reactions. He didn't explain his random votes I believe.

I can see him being a Mafia, but for obvious reasons I prefer to vote someone else.

[Cryptonic]

Hmm, it seems I can't access all posts on quicktopic, wth?

Anyway, Shadow proposed that we claim being lovers with someone else and I think it was good idea - that way we could gather some additional reactions. He didn't explain his random votes I believe.

I can see him being a Mafia, but for obvious reasons I prefer to vote someone else.

Well, of course. That makes sense.
What do you think about shadow lying, pretending that he is sacrificing himself in order to kill Bunny? Seems like he was just focusing on her for no reason.

This is what I kind of think he was doing:
Lynches Bunny & Mateo.
Get lynched next day for misslynching.
Told Mafia d1 in Mafia chat to not vote with him, but instead go against him (maybe even start the lynch on him the next day), in order to seem more town when it came down to 1 pair v 1 pair.

This is all just hypothetical. There are a few reasons he might have been acting that way, but none really have a town angle that I can see.

Claiming someone else to be your lover was a good plan to gauge reactions, but there is no reason to claim a fake lover and force a lynch on them.

[madbird20]

The only problem I see with 42 pulling that Gambit, is that in the end it'd be Lover/Lover v Lover/Lover. He would have to convince his Lover that he is not Mafia, then convince one of the other Lovers to vote their Lover. Not impossible, but almost everyone has shown an aversion to voting their Lover for their own various reasons.

[Dagaen]

Oh and...



I only voted him to get some reactions anyway.

I'm afraid of CarolinaCrown + Cryptonic (CCC), they both are great scum players.
Shadow could be another one I guess, but he atrracted so much attention with his voting that I don't find it very likely.
Mateo and Bunny are the most silent Lovers, that's also dangerous.
Madbird seems ok, his lover is a little bit shady, but I don't think he is definitely scum.

Those are only my feelings, don't treat them as serious readings.

[madbird20]

Oh and...



I only voted him to get some reactions anyway.

I'm afraid of CarolinaCrown + Cryptonic (CCC), they both are great scum players.
Shadow could be another one I guess, but he atrracted so much attention with his voting that I don't find it very likely.
Mateo and Bunny are the most silent Lovers, that's also dangerous.
Madbird seems ok, his lover is a little bit shady, but I don't think he is definitely scum.

Those are only my feelings, don't treat them as serious readings.

Which, if any, in the CCC pairing do you think would be the Scum? They seem rather certain that they're L/L. What makes you cautious? Or is it just Meta?

[Dagaen]

Which, if any, in the CCC pairing do you think would be the Scum? They seem rather certain that they're L/L. What makes you cautious? Or is it just Meta?

Obviously I have no proof. It's just the feeling. CC is good at fooling people and this setup seems really great for him.

[madbird20]

So many Guests...

Bunny, Mateo, what are your thoughts on the game thus far? I shall await your repsonses.

[Cryptonic]

I want everyone to post who they think are the 2 most likely scum pairs.

I'll start:

Kusco & Dagaen
Kusco & Mateo


Carolina has somewhat convince me to take a step back from shadow while we try to make sense of his actions. We believe he could be town because he's drawing a lot of attention to himself (which is what town would do). Although, it's still posisble that he knows that would make him look more town, that's why he's drawing the attention to himself. But, that seems like i'm grasping for straws lol.

[Cryptonic]

hmm maybe not Mateo & Kusco, forgot Mateo has his vote on him. I'll revise that in a bit >_>

[CarolinaCrown]

hmm maybe not Mateo & Kusco, forgot Mateo has his vote on him. I'll revise that in a bit >_>

Both Mateo's and Kusco's votes are on me.

[Cryptonic]

fine, we kill kusco today

-vote kusco

LOL Mateo fake voted onto Kusco. that's veryyyyyyy interesting.

[Kusco]

LOL Mateo fake voted onto Kusco. that's veryyyyyyy interesting.

And even more interesting to me. Not just from fake voting me, but his vote on Carolina. You see, I'm not very impressed with Mateo's reading ability and so I'm wondering why he thinks that Carolina is scum. His vote makes me doubt my read on Carolina.

I hate dirty fucking lurkers...

[Dagaen]

I want everyone to post who they think are the 2 most likely scum pairs.

I'll start:

Kusco & Dagaen
Kusco & Mateo


Why not me & Mateo? That sounds like you are 100% certain that Kusco is a scum. I may need to re-read his defence, but it looked fine at the first glance.

Why not Bunny? She is in pairing with Mateo and said just as little.

[Kusco]

That being said, I think we should look at who ISN'T being vote. Not just people, but pairs. Mafia will probably not vote Mafia nor will they vote their Mafia's Lover. That is why i'm fairly suspicious of shadow/Dagaen pair, shadow in particular (no read on Dagaen yet). If you look at the votes:
Shadow -> Bunny
Shadow -> Carolina
Kusco -> Carolina
Mateo -> Carolina
Bunny -> Kusco
Dagaen -> Kusco


Either you forgot to put your own vote up there or you are really wanting us all to trust that you're town (I took off the fake Mateo vote btw).

Crypt -> Kusco

Please don't take the town's trust for granted. It needs to be earned.

Right now I'm very skeptical of your defense of Carolina. You are too sure of yourself that your lover is town while focusing on those that vote on your pair. Very sketchy indeed.

Oh and Carolina, I was asking you to tell us your lover because I wanted confirmation. It wasn't my goal to make you look bad. I just wanted a name.

[Kusco]

Why not me & Mateo? That sounds like you are 100% certain that Kusco is a scum. I may need to re-read his defence, but it looked fine at the first glance.

Why not Bunny? She is in pairing with Mateo and said just as little.

I haven't made much a defense so that will be a quick turnaround.

[Bunny]

Why not me & Mateo? That sounds like you are 100% certain that Kusco is a scum. I may need to re-read his defence, but it looked fine at the first glance.

Why not Bunny? She is in pairing with Mateo and said just as little.

cuz he knows that i have been extremely busy and unable to post all morning!

[Kusco]

cuz he knows that i have been extremely busy and unable to post all morning!

That still doesn't mean he can wave his read of you away.

[Bunny]

That still doesn't mean he can wave his read of you away.

He wasn't, we both just know i wasn't lurking. i suppose mateo could be doing the sme thing, though his voting pattern makes me think otherwise.

[Dagaen]

Oh, Bunny is busy irl, she can't be scum! Hopefully Cryptonic has a better argument.

[madbird20]

xD I actually got away with that real life stuff soooo often in Castle Varen. Oh, made a slip? Sorry, someone ticked me off irl, DUN JUDGE MEH PLZZZ D: (No mockery or insults meant to you Bunny, just saying how easy it is to play on people's sympathies as Scum)

[Bunny]

xD I actually got away with that real life stuff soooo often in Castle Varen. Oh, made a slip? Sorry, someone ticked me off irl, DUN JUDGE MEH PLZZZ D: (No mockery or insults meant to you Bunny, just saying how easy it is to play on people's sympathies as Scum)

I'm not asking you to sympathize, i'm simply stating that he knows i didn't have the ability to come on as i could barely talk to him. and he likley will have another reason as well. I don't talk much though and never will, just so everyone knows. I'm just quiet. Sorry! I could try and attempt to say more if my lover would bother posting in our chat.

[Cryptonic]

Why not me & Mateo? That sounds like you are 100% certain that Kusco is a scum. I may need to re-read his defence, but it looked fine at the first glance.

Why not Bunny? She is in pairing with Mateo and said just as little.

Because Mateo contradicts himself. I'm not thinking he is scum because he has said nothing.

I'm not 100% certain that Kusco is scum, no one can be 100% sure someone is scum. Kusco is just the scummiest person, to me. I was only posting my top 2, anyways...

Good job not posting your list, like asked, though x.x



Either you forgot to put your own vote up there or you are really wanting us all to trust that you're town (I took off the fake Mateo vote btw).

Crypt -> Kusco

Please don't take the town's trust for granted. It needs to be earned.

Right now I'm very skeptical of your defense of Carolina. You are too sure of yourself that your lover is town while focusing on those that vote on your pair. Very sketchy indeed.

Oh and Carolina, I was asking you to tell us your lover because I wanted confirmation. It wasn't my goal to make you look bad. I just wanted a name.

Yes, I had forgotten to include myself on the list, but it didn't matter because you're trying to lynch Carolina so it prevents that grouping anyways. It's still the same outcome. I'm not taking shit for granted. Stop acting like you're the sole voice of the town.

Carolina has been nothing but upfront and offering his opinions and also asking me questions. It's not that i'm sure that he is town, i'm just sure he is more town than most people in this game. Carolina is giving every single player the benefit of the doubt and hasn't buddied with a single person. How is me defending the person I see to be the most town sketchy?

Also, you make no sense. You're voting Carolina for being scummy, but then say I'm sketchy? If you think Carolina is scum, then you need to think i'm town. And as a Townie, I'm telling you that he is behaving much more town-like than you are. So, if you believe that you are acting pro-town, then you will heed my opinion (since i'm town to you via deduction) that he is more pro-town than you are.

You can't think we are both scum.

You get super defensive at everything. Even moreso than me and I'm closer to dying than you are.

So, maybe you can stop being a hypocrit and calling me out on things that you're also guilty of? That'd be nice.

[Cryptonic]

That still doesn't mean he can wave his read of you away.

Carolina has my read on Bunny, gfy scumboy.

[madbird20]

I'm not asking you to sympathize, i'm simply stating that he knows i didn't have the ability to come on as i could barely talk to him. and he likley will have another reason as well. I don't talk much though and never will, just so everyone knows. I'm just quiet. Sorry! I could try and attempt to say more if my lover would bother posting in our chat.

Oh I know how you play. You were Baxter in Castle Varen, albeit that was a scum play but that's neither here nor there since I don't like to use player-meta.

:P I got rather lucky in terms of activity, since Kusco and I are in the same timezone with about the same level of activity. It's gonna suck if he flips Scum though lol

[Cryptonic]

I want everyone to post who they think are the 2 most likely scum pairs.

Can people start doing this so we can find contradictions and relationships?

[Kusco]

Because Mateo contradicts himself. I'm not thinking he is scum because he has said nothing.

I'm not 100% certain that Kusco is scum, no one can be 100% sure someone is scum. Kusco is just the scummiest person, to me. I was only posting my top 2, anyways...

Good job not posting your list, like asked, though x.x




Yes, I had forgotten to include myself on the list, but it didn't matter because you're trying to lynch Carolina so it prevents that grouping anyways. It's still the same outcome. I'm not taking shit for granted. Stop acting like you're the sole voice of the town.

Carolina has been nothing but upfront and offering his opinions and also asking me questions. It's not that i'm sure that he is town, i'm just sure he is more town than most people in this game. Carolina is giving every single player the benefit of the doubt and hasn't buddied with a single person. How is me defending the person I see to be the most town sketchy?

Also, you make no sense. You're voting Carolina for being scummy, but then say I'm sketchy? If you think Carolina is scum, then you need to think i'm town. And as a Townie, I'm telling you that he is behaving much more town-like than you are. So, if you believe that you are acting pro-town, then you will heed my opinion (since i'm town to you via deduction) that he is more pro-town than you are.

You can't think we are both scum.

You get super defensive at everything. Even moreso than me and I'm closer to dying than you are.

So, maybe you can stop being a hypocrit and calling me out on things that you're also guilty of? That'd be nice.

I actually think that you're scummier than Carolina. Carolina just isn't thinking. I voted Carolina to see your reaction. You happen to fit my scum tells. I haven't unvoted yet because a lynch on Carolina is the same as a lynch on you.


Yes, I had forgotten to include myself on the list, but it didn't matter because you're trying to lynch Carolina so it prevents that grouping anyways. It's still the same outcome. I'm not taking shit for granted. Stop acting like you're the sole voice of the town.

I'm just a bit confused on the underlined part. Could you clear it up? What is "that grouping" and why is it still the same outcome?

[Dagaen]

By Cryptonic:

Carolina has been giving decent reads on people, enough to the point where I don't think he is scum. I have reread our lover chat several times, pretending he is Mafia and saying everying in such a way to convince me of something else. I haven't been able to detect any of this language.

CarolinaCrown, do you believe your posts in your lover chat were good enough to convince someone who knows that you are a good scum player of your innocence? Most of us are suspicious of each other, yet Cryptonic seems 90% certain you are Town. Is this feeling mutual?

Obviously Mafia is not willing to die, so advertising your partner as Townie can do the trick.

[Cryptonic]

I actually think that you're scummier than Carolina. Carolina just isn't thinking. I voted Carolina to see your reaction. You happen to fit my scum tells. I haven't unvoted yet because a lynch on Carolina is the same as a lynch on you.

I'm just a bit confused on the underlined part. Could you clear it up? What is "that grouping" and why is it still the same outcome?

Alright, then i'll stop defending Carolina, if that's the case. What's your plan of attack when we both flip town?


If we take into account my vote on you, then that likely means i'm not partnered with you nor madbird. I also had a vote on Mateo, so that means the same shit.
42 has a vote on Carolina, so there is that one gone too.
Therefore, the only possible scum pairing that I am in is still just Dagaen and I with the info I currently have.
Nothing changes.

[Cryptonic]

By Cryptonic:


CarolinaCrown, do you believe your posts in your lover chat were good enough to convince someone who knows that you are a good scum player of your innocence? Most of us are suspicious of each other, yet Cryptonic seems 90% certain you are Town. Is this feeling mutual?

Obviously Mafia is not willing to die, so advertising your partner as Townie can do the trick.

error: i've never played a game that I can remember with Carolina where he was scum.

btw, why did you ignore my latest post about why I said he is town and ONLY use that one?

[Cryptonic]

Carolina has been nothing but upfront and offering his opinions and also asking me questions. It's not that i'm sure that he is town, i'm just sure he is more town than most people in this game. Carolina is giving every single player the benefit of the doubt and hasn't buddied with a single person. How is me defending the person I see to be the most town sketchy?

for your easy access.

[Dagaen]

error: i've never played a game that I can remember with Carolina where he was scum.

btw, why did you ignore my latest post about why I said he is town and ONLY use that one?

Because I don't want Carolina's opinion. You gave your reasons and I'm happy with it, but I need to see his story as well. Also: I am slow writer and I hate to delete my posts just because new responses appeared, sorry for that:P

Cryptonic, you mentioned that Mateo contradicted himself? Can you point me where?

[Dagaen]

*I want Carolina's opinion!

[Kusco]

Alright, then i'll stop defending Carolina, if that's the case. What's your plan of attack when we both flip town?


If we take into account my vote on you, then that likely means i'm not partnered with you nor madbird. I also had a vote on Mateo, so that means the same shit.
42 has a vote on Carolina, so there is that one gone too.
Therefore, the only possible scum pairing that I am in is still just Dagaen and I with the info I currently have.
Nothing changes.

Your logic with the votes seems a bit funky to me. Earlier you said that the voters are probably not scum partners with a player in the voted pair.

What about unvotes?

The way I see it is that you're limiting our view of association while waving the possibility of mafia voting each other then unvoting, just to get rid of any possible association.

It's also possible for mafia to bus each other for town points.

I don't like that your scum list seems to ignore those possibilities. You may say that they're still possible, but I see nothing factoring them into your scum list.

[Dagaen]

It's frightening how similar Kusco's thoughts are to mine... I also don't like so much emphasis on votes. At least in RVS.

[Cryptonic]

Because I don't want Carolina's opinion. You gave your reasons and I'm happy with it, but I need to see his story as well. Also: I am slow writer and I hate to delete my posts just because new responses appeared, sorry for that:P

Cryptonic, you mentioned that Mateo contradicted himself? Can you point me where?

Sorry, I read back for it and I had it confused with madbird accusing me of being scum for the same thing kusco did (but he didn't mention Kusco's actions). I thought Mateo had brought it up.

Although Mateo knows how to vote, so placing a false vote and saying we should kill Kusco is p.susp.


Your logic with the votes seems a bit funky to me. Earlier you said that the voters are probably not scum partners with a player in the voted pair.

What about unvotes?

The way I see it is that you're limiting our view of association while waving the possibility of mafia voting each other then unvoting, just to get rid of any possible association.

It's also possible for mafia to bus each other for town points.

I don't like that your scum list seems to ignore those possibilities. You may say that they're still possible, but I see nothing factoring them into your scum list.

Of course there are more variables, but this is a better place to start then tunnel visioning on a few people. I at least am trying to get information flowing to fill these gaps, when you're just trying to pull off a lynch.

[Cryptonic]

I want everyone to post who they think are the 2 most likely scum pairs.

Can people start doing this so we can find contradictions and relationships?

at least do this before Carolina and I die today.

[Dagaen]

Sorry, I read back for it and I had it confused with madbird accusing me of being scum for the same thing kusco did (but he didn't mention Kusco's actions). I thought Mateo had brought it up.


Ok^^

So with that knowledge, are Mateo and Kusco still your prime suspects?

[Dagaen]

Don't worry, I will post my pairings, but not now. I'm more comfortable with having more data before I seriously FoS somebody.

[Kusco]

Sorry, I read back for it and I had it confused with madbird accusing me of being scum for the same thing kusco did (but he didn't mention Kusco's actions). I thought Mateo had brought it up.

Although Mateo knows how to vote, so placing a false vote and saying we should kill Kusco is p.susp.



Of course there are more variables, but this is a better place to start then tunnel visioning on a few people. I at least am trying to get information flowing to fill these gaps, when you're just trying to pull off a lynch.

Of course I'm trying to pull off a lynch. I happen to think that this lynch is a good one. For one thing, we can talk and talk and talk some more but we need to lynch scum to win.

I don't like your answer because votes are a starting point, but you haven't gotten far from that. It's juvenile to think of a scum list solely based on the votes and not put any real effort into it.

[Cryptonic]

Ok^^

So with that knowledge, are Mateo and Kusco still your prime suspects?

I am still susp. of Mateo, but I guess a bit of it wasn't called for.
Here are my reads as of 2(3?) hours ago. They have changed a bit since then, but just so you guys can get my train of thought:


My Reads:
1.- Kusco
Extremely defensive when questioned. Jumps on a train but never starts one. Attacks people while never saying any ideas of his own. Also, I am fairly certain that madbird is town, therefore it increases his likliness of being Mafia. Likely Scum.
2.- Mateo
Easy to convince to remove his vote, doesn't seem to care one way or the other. Could see Mateo being Mafia with either Dagaen or shadow. Says he wanted to get a vote down incase he didn't come back in time, but days last until lynch so there isn't really an "in time" factor. Possible Scum.
3.- CarolinaCrown
You seem honest and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Seems like a Mafia would be trying to push lynches on people rather than hear what they have to say. Likely Town.
4.- Dagaen
Silent and easily votes for Kusco but not on you. Either you could be his Mafia partner and he's trying to distance. I also have a thought that he could be Mafia and know that we both are Town; then, thinking that you were going to be lynched 100%, he didn't want to be on the train that led to the death of 2 Town Members. Or, he could just think that you are more Town-like. Possible Mafia.
5.- Bunny
Very quiet. However, she usually is, and she was being pressured by shadow (who was lying) to reveal her lover. Her Lover was AFK until the morning, so she was never given permission to reveal him. I think that she just didn't want to upset Mateo if people weren't gonna reveal their pairs. Bunny is good in games because she gets insight on people, allowing her to plan her Night actions amazingly well. I feel that she will likely be silent a good chunk of the game, unless encouraged by other players to talk. Neutral read.
6.- 42shadow42
Lies and starts trains on people. Says that he's sacrificing himself by voting for Bunny, seeming like it was an attempt to get people to join him. However, now he said he is not sure Bunny is scum, and easily changes his vote. I think that shadow could've been attempting to Distance himself from either Bunny or Mateo. I don't really see any reason as to why someone would do the actions he did. Possible Mafia.
7.- Cryptonic
Me, Town.
8.- madbird20
Giving a lot of good reads, and giving logical responses to questions. I don't see any underlying meanings in his posts, and I don't find him to be trying to convince the Town of anything. I think he is being honest. Likely Town.

Resultant:
Mafia pairs:
Shadow & Bunny
Shadow & Mateo
Shadow & Kusco
Dagaen & Mateo
Dagaen & Bunny

That's what I've come to conclusion of so far. I gave a little less editted list in the day chat, because I don't want to scare mafia away from buddying with one another.

I don't really know who the second scum is, but I'm fairly certain w/ Kusco.
I would then have to say the second is either you, Dagaen, or Mateo. I haven't really gotten a read on Bunny, and shadow is all over the place. Carolina vouches for shadow, so that's why I haven't been including him on my lists lately.

[Cryptonic]

Of course I'm trying to pull off a lynch. I happen to think that this lynch is a good one. For one thing, we can talk and talk and talk some more but we need to lynch scum to win.

I don't like your answer because votes are a starting point, but you haven't gotten far from that. It's juvenile to think of a scum list solely based on the votes and not put any real effort into it.

If I'm scum, who would you say is scum with me?

[Bunny]

hmm CarolinaCrown

i'd like to hear more from him tho

[Cryptonic]

if I die, start questioning Mateo & Dagaen more please.

[Cryptonic]

hmm CarolinaCrown

i'd like to hear more from him tho

;(

[Cryptonic]

don't leave us hanging at l-1 pls =[
someone unvote
if not, be wary of whoever hammers us (unless Carolina is scum, but doubtful)

[Kusco]

If I'm scum, who would you say is scum with me?

I think that it's either Bunny or Dagaen who's your partner.

Both are/were hesitant to vote. I see that more as a "wait until it's a lost cause then get town points" action.

[Cryptonic]

When we flip L/L, maybe people will start questioning you more.

[madbird20]

Bunny, why are you bringing Crypt/Carolina so close to hammer? There is absolutely no need to place us in such a dangerous position. Days are infinite, and we most certainly have not gotten all the info we can out of today. I would like your reads, please.

[Bunny]

Bunny, why are you bringing Crypt/Carolina so close to hammer? There is absolutely no need to place us in such a dangerous position. Days are infinite, and we most certainly have not gotten all the info we can out of today. I would like your reads, please.

ehh i have a gut bad feeling about Carolina, and i feel that Crypt is acting a little sketchy. So getting rid of both of them has a good chance of getting a scum.

[CarolinaCrown]

I'm here, give me a moment.

[CarolinaCrown]

Dagaen, I feel like my posts in the lover chat are towny, but you know how I play scum a lot better than Crypt does. I think what he's said about me is accurate if not a little exaggerated. An example: one of Crypt's first posts in the loverchat was about Kusco as a possible lynch target, to which I replied that I just didn't know enough to make any sort of call. We've both been posting reads pretty regularly, too, so that's a good tip-off.

I think Cryptonic is town due to his asking good questions, facilitating decent debate, and just plain playing pretty conservatively. Additionally, there's a decent amount suspicion in every other pair, but no matter what there are two Town/Town pairs, and that makes me even more confident that he's town.

[CarolinaCrown]

you know how I play scum a lot better than Crypt knows how I play scum

Ambiguity removed

[CarolinaCrown]

Of course I'm trying to pull off a lynch. I happen to think that this lynch is a good one. For one thing, we can talk and talk and talk some more but we need to lynch scum to win.

I don't like your answer because votes are a starting point, but you haven't gotten far from that. It's juvenile to think of a scum list solely based on the votes and not put any real effort into it.

IMO this is an extremely scummy post. "We need to lynch scum to win" is just such an unnecessary phrase and it sounds very forced.

[madbird20]

Ambiguity removed

So you, too, believe you are one of the L/L combos? What do you think of everyone else? Do you agree with Crypt on the Kusco lynch?

[CarolinaCrown]

Can anyone elaborate a FoS on me besides "gut feeling?" As far as I know what got me in the biggest trouble is not revealing my lover, and I seriously think that's irrelevant.

Also Kusco, you've been saying a lot that I don't think for myself. What do you mean by that? Can you give examples?

[madbird20]

Btw, if Kusco is deemed the lynch for today, I request that I be allowed to hammer so that I can get out my final reads before we die.

[CarolinaCrown]

So you, too, believe you are one of the L/L combos? What do you think of everyone else? Do you agree with Crypt on the Kusco lynch?

I do agree on the Kusco lynch, I think his reactions and tone have been those of a very self-aware scum. Like I said though, you're a very strong town read for me so it'd be too bad that you'd get taken along with him.

Other reads:

Dagaen: I think what he said about me/my scumstyle shows deep thought into potential scum candidates. That particular post is what makes me think he's town most, but he's also been pretty conservative.
Bunny: Very lurky, not a big fan of the "gut feeling" justification
Mateo: Also lurky. More "substance" to his posts, but I don't know if I believe the substance to mean much. He accused me of trying to get town to lose interest in the game, which is honestly one of the most ridiculous accusations I've heard.
shadow: I think his style of many votes at the beginning is most like a town trying to gauge reactions. I think he's misled, but I think he's town. Dagaen, I'd really like to hear more about what you think of him from your loverchat.

[CarolinaCrown]

As for my top two list:

1) Mateo and Kusco
2) Bunny and Kusco

It's nice that these are effectively the same. Makes it easy to decide on a lynch target.

[madbird20]

Do note that the Lover pairs are

Lover/Lover
Lover/Lover
Lover/Lover
Lover/Lover

Madbird/Kusco
Crypt/Carolina
Bunny/Mateo
Shadow/Dagaen


2 L/Ls, 2 L/Ls.

So at this point you believe Shadow/Dag to be the second Town pair, assuming you and Crypt are the other?

[Bunny]

I do agree on the Kusco lynch, I think his reactions and tone have been those of a very self-aware scum. Like I said though, you're a very strong town read for me so it'd be too bad that you'd get taken along with him.

Other reads:

Dagaen: I think what he said about me/my scumstyle shows deep thought into potential scum candidates. That particular post is what makes me think he's town most, but he's also been pretty conservative.
Bunny: Very lurky, not a big fan of the "gut feeling" justification
Mateo: Also lurky. More "substance" to his posts, but I don't know if I believe the substance to mean much. He accused me of trying to get town to lose interest in the game, which is honestly one of the most ridiculous accusations I've heard.
shadow: I think his style of many votes at the beginning is most like a town trying to gauge reactions. I think he's misled, but I think he's town. Dagaen, I'd really like to hear more about what you think of him from your loverchat.

what exactly in this setup/game isn't based on gut feelings...

[CarolinaCrown]

@madbird: yes that is what I believe to be the case.

@Bunny: there's a difference between gut feeling and analysis. Can you give me concrete reasons why you think I'm scummy? Examples of posts, etc?


I have to go for a little bit. I'll be back in an hour, probably. Maybe sooner.

[Bunny]

[QUOTE=CarolinaCrown;385260]@madbird: yes that is what I believe to be the case.

@Bunny: there's a difference between gut feeling and analysis. Can you give me concrete reasons why you think I'm scummy? Examples of posts, etc?


[QUOTE]

ehh not exactly, i couldmake a big long post quoting all your posts saying "this is really scummy" or "this is a really town post" those are still just feelings you know. some of your posts just seem to lack sincerity. i could be wrong tho!

[Bunny]

well i fucked that up =[

[Dagaen]

I will not appreciate fast lynch on Carolina. I only have suspicions, but no solid proofs.

Also, my laptop just died and I'm in really shitty mood. I'm going to pray that this is some easily fixable issue, but it looks like motherboard. Going to look into this, so please don't hammer CC too early. Him and Cryptonic are most active players, we can't scumhunt during lurkerfest.

[42shadow42]

After reading today, I have come to the conclusion.

Lover/Lover Madbird/Kusco
Lover/Lover Bunny/Mateo
Lover/Lover Shadow/Dagaen
Lover/Lover Crypt/Carolina

Madbird/Kusco
Crypt/Carolina
Bunny/Mateo
Shadow/Dagaen

[42shadow42]

Dagaen

[CarolinaCrown]

I will not appreciate fast lynch on Carolina. I only have suspicions, but no solid proofs.

Also, my laptop just died and I'm in really shitty mood. I'm going to pray that this is some easily fixable issue, but it looks like motherboard. Going to look into this, so please don't hammer CC too early. Him and Cryptonic are most active players, we can't scumhunt during lurkerfest.

Yikes, good luck. Do you know what happened or did it randomly just fail on you?

Also if you get a chance, can you tell us some of your thoughts on 42shadow42 in loverchat?

[madbird20]

42 did essentially just FoS his Lover. It seems he likes doing that. First his fake Bunny-Love, now Dag

[CarolinaCrown]

Dagaen

On the flip side, what's Dagaen been like in the lover chat?

[42shadow42]

42 did essentially just FoS his Lover. It seems he likes doing that. First his fake Bunny-Love, now Dag

When i expressed FoS on my lover it was truly on dagaen, I just couldn't admit it at the time or it would ruin my focus on bunny.

[42shadow42]

On the flip side, what's Dagaen been like in the lover chat?

I have attempted to drop hints at me being scum through the lover chat, but Dagaen has never expressed any suspicions on me. I took this as a confirmation of his guilt tbh.

[CarolinaCrown]

I have attempted to drop hints at me being scum through the lover chat, but Dagaen has never expressed any suspicions on me. I took this as a confirmation of his guilt tbh.

Interesting. Can you give some examples, just so we know what kind of things he didn't pick up on?

[42shadow42]

Okay, what's the plan? -42shadow42

...

Btw, are you scum? -Dagaen

Yes, I am. -42shadow42

...

Public suggestion that one might answer honestly to avert suspicion.

...

This quote is the only thing and it is only just recently that has suggested any suspicion.

And why did you vote so randomly at the beginning? -Dagaen

[Dagaen]

I have attempted to drop hints at me being scum through the lover chat, but Dagaen has never expressed any suspicions on me. I took this as a confirmation of his guilt tbh.


Huh? You mean the part


"Shadow, are you scum?"
"Yes"

?

As I said before I prefer to gather evidence before FoSing someone. What's the point otherwise? Please show me your scum clues, if I decide that those are legit that I can confirm you are Town, because scums wouldn't try to get themselves killed. Unless WIFOM.

[CarolinaCrown]

Okay, what's the plan? -42shadow42

...

Btw, are you scum? -Dagaen

Yes, I am. -42shadow42

...

Public suggestion that one might answer honestly to avert suspicion.

...

This quote is the only thing and it is only just recently that has suggested any suspicion.

And why did you vote so randomly at the beginning? -Dagaen

ehhh, okay I see your angle. I want to hear Dagaen's side. Not to suggest anything but it's interesting that you decided to vote him after I asked him about you. Doesn't really mean anything since you guys both die together, but still interesting.

[Dagaen]

Okay, what's the plan? -42shadow42

...

Btw, are you scum? -Dagaen

Yes, I am. -42shadow42

...

Public suggestion that one might answer honestly to avert suspicion.

...

This quote is the only thing and it is only just recently that has suggested any suspicion.

And why did you vote so randomly at the beginning? -Dagaen

Which is about 8 hours before your vote.

[CarolinaCrown]

hm, for now
Kusco

[Dagaen]

Which is about 8 hours before your vote.

Ok, it's not. Still, way before you cast your vote.

[Dagaen]

Ok, I'm going, I will answer everything in ~15 hours. It's screwdriver time.

[42shadow42]

hm, for now
Kusco

Don't even get me started on that.

[CarolinaCrown]

Don't even get me started on that.

??

[42shadow42]

ehhh, okay I see your angle. I want to hear Dagaen's side. Not to suggest anything but it's interesting that you decided to vote him after I asked him about you. Doesn't really mean anything since you guys both die together, but still interesting.

Does anyone else see my angle? Because I bloody don't :P

[CarolinaCrown]

Does anyone else see my angle? Because I bloody don't :P

awkward phrasing I guess. I just meant I understood what you were doing and why you thought what you did.

[42shadow42]

awkward phrasing I guess. I just meant I understood what you were doing and why you thought what you did.

Thats the point, I don't understand how you came to those conclusions, I contradicted myself in 2 consecutive posts, I was honestly hoping you would catch me at it.

[CarolinaCrown]

Thats the point, I don't understand how you came to those conclusions, I contradicted myself in 2 consecutive posts, I was honestly hoping you would catch me at it.

...where?

[madbird20]

42 is doing a good job of trying to make us feel retarded :P

[CarolinaCrown]

42 is doing a good job of trying to make us feel retarded :P

I swear I can't find what he's talking about.

[madbird20]

I swear I can't find what he's talking about.

Exactly :P