The Dungeon: night 4

[FM Ferengi]

Although the Eldercity by itself may qualify to be named a dungeon by adventuring folk, these deep pits and lightless holding cells that were carved right out of the cavernous rocks truly honour such a name. This must have been where prisoners were kept.

Inside the guardhouse, which the group passes through to reach the dungeon, stands a table which has had fifteen squares cut into its surface with a knife. There’s also a small weapon rack that still holds an old warhammer. Down below, there are fifteen cells in total. And before long, Jan discovers that text has been carved into the walls of each. Each of them have a strange assortment of questions, some of which refer to the group with which you came.

1 – Three zombies are feasting on the brains of all the people in the dining hall. How many dead bodies are there in the dining hall?
A: 6
B: 5
C: 8
D: 7

2 – How many attunements can the shadow adepts perform each night?
A: 0
B: 1
C: 2
D: 3

3 – What is the answer to question twelve?
A: B
B: C
C: A
D: D

4 - Assuming no suicides are committed and no heartwarders exist, what is - in theory - the maximum number of expedition members that could die on the second night?
A: 16
B: 10
C: 35
D: 36

5 – What is the next question with the same answer as this one?
A: 6
B: 7
C: 8
D: 9

6 – Gnomes only work in
A: Groups of 2
B: Groups of 3
C: Groups of 5
D: Groups of 7

7 – Did you submit an answer to question eleven?
A: YES
B: YES
C: YES
D: YES

8 - The only odd numbered question with answer A is...
A: Question 15
B: Question 5
C: Question 3
D: Question 13

9 - Assuming the expedition fails one night puzzle and all roles - living or dead - are unique at the time, how many expedition members could in theory receive clues in their feedback on that night?
A: 5
B: 6
C: 7
D: 8

10 - The number of questions preceding this one with the same answer as this question is:
A: 1
B: 2
C: 3
D: 4

11 – Did you submit an answer to question seven?
A: NO
B: NO
C: NO
D: NO

12 – What is the answer to question three?
A: B
B: A
C: D
D: C

13 – How many additional members joined the expedition on the first day in Baldur’s Gate on top of the number that was originally planned to set foot in the Eldercity?
A: 1
B: 2
C: 3
D: 4

14 - The answer to questions thirteen and fifteen are how many letters apart?
A: 0
B: 1
C: 2
D: 3

15 – It takes how many gnomes to put out the chandelier in the dining hall?
A: the number of A’s
B: the number of B’s
C: the number of C’s
D: the number of D’s

“Our coming was prophesied!” Nalia calls out in ecstasy.

Xzar rolls with his eyes. “Or some mysterious stranger is pulling pranks on us. Speaking of which... has anyone seen where they went?”

Although the thought troubles the group for a short while, it doesn’t take long for them to devote their attention elsewhere. The questions on the walls are to be read more closely. So far, it cannot be denied that solving the local mysteries has at least provided some insights into the way the Inner Sanctum might be opened. So maybe this locale holds some information as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reminder:
Each group must vote for a “volunteer” to test their solution. Note that someone can be forced to take this position against their will. Whoever gets the most votes will be charged with the task. In case of a tie, the volunteer will be randomised to break the tie.

Voting for a volunteer uses the same formatting as voting to lynch someone, with [ vote ] [ /vote ] tags around their name. A majority doesn’t lock the vote. The tally at the end of the night is used.

Solutions can be proposed by anyone, whether they’re chosen as volunteer or not. A solution is proposed in the puzzle chat using the following format:

-propose solution



Unfortunately for the explorers, all of these locations are heavily trapped. If a wrong answer is given by the volunteer, he has a 66% chance of being struck by a trap and die. Having no proposed solution counts as a wrong answer.

If he is correct though, he will be awarded with a clue in his night feedback PM and the puzzle location will be closed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Player List:
FM Jan
FM Nalia
FM Dynaheir
FM Tiax
FM Imoen
FM Kagain
FM Jaheira
FM Cernd
FM Xzar
FM Aerie
FM Montaron
FM Branwen
FM Shar-Teel

[FM Imoen]

Need I say it again? I warned you all.

[FM Imoen]

This puzzle is... quite different from the others.

[FM Jaheira]

*insert giant twitching, severely annoyed grin here* dat Anomen flip....

[FM Cernd]

You're stupid.
Have fun with your puzzle and lynching and everything else.

I'll just watch you fail over and over again.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Going to dinner. This puzzle is massive. I will be back later.

[FM Jaheira]

how come 33 is not an answer for #4? a half Dragon could kill everyone but itself, the 2 other spawn, and the prophet in one night.

[FM Jaheira]

Ignore that. I derped hard.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Start with 11. Eliminate A as the answer for all the answers but for the ones in 11.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I meant start with 8. It tels that some answers cannot be true. Ex 9 cannot be A.

[FM Shar-Teel]

3 is A. 12 is B. Therefore 8 is C.

[FM Dynaheir]

My progress:

1 - BCD
2 - C
3 - A
4 - CD
5 - C
6 - BCD
7 - ---
8 - C
9 - B
10- A
11- ABCD
12- B
13- B
14- ABC
15- BCD

still working on it. gotta do some other stuff though.

[FM Dynaheir]

For 4: assume the inner sanctum is opened the first night by the thief. All roles capable of visiting visit the Veteran. That only leaves the Duke and Explorers -> Lower bound of 29.

[FM Dynaheir]

Oh and the veteran himself, so really 28

[FM Dynaheir]

11 is BCD

[FM Shar-Teel]

A cannot be 11.

[FM Dynaheir]

6 and 15 are interconnected. Neither can be A. There are [3/5/7] [B's/C's/D's]

[FM Dynaheir]

You can kill the Half-Dragon too if the Evoker sets a fireball the first night and visits to dismiss it the second. Half-Dragon goes on guard before the Fireball is dismissed, so the fireball remains and kills the Half-Dragon, who stayed home.

[FM Dynaheir]

oh DUH. The sanctum is opened the first night. The Lunatic is lynched day 2 by all 36 players. Everyone dies.

For #4, do Lunatic suicides count as suicides?

[Forum Mafia GM]

For #4, do Lunatic suicides count as suicides?

What Lunatic suicides?

[FM Dynaheir]

What Lunatic suicides?

Ah, I should have read the setup!


Must choose ⅕ of guilty voters to slaughter the night after being lynched.

There's your answer. The lunatic chooses 100%

[FM Dynaheir]

Man everyone's all into the word puzzles and cryptograms but as soon as a LOGIC puzzle comes around, everyone shys away.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Does 4 suppose the number of explorerers given in the setup? Is jester griefing a factor?

[FM Shar-Teel]

I was out to dinner. I love logic puzzles.

[FM Dynaheir]

Does 4 suppose the number of explorerers given in the setup? Is jester griefing a factor?

I posted earlier from the setup, there are no suicides from Jesters, the Lunatic slaughters any % of his guilty voters.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Two has to be d or b Dynaheir

[FM Imoen]

Man everyone's all into the word puzzles and cryptograms but as soon as a LOGIC puzzle comes around, everyone shys away.

I'm trying to solve it on my own. I will tell you this: I already knew the lunatic (because I read the gods' will, unlike everyone else, it would seem) and the answer to that question is D.

[FM Dynaheir]

I am VERY close. Shar-Teel do you think there is a particular answer contained in the question in #1, or do you think the answer must be found from the other recursive questions (6 10 and 15 to be precise)

[FM Dynaheir]

Two has to be d or b Dynaheir

Why D? It can be C because of Heartwarder.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I haven't got that far.


The SA would still be attuning one that night. The attunement would be multiplied. However, the SA can only submit 3 ppl or one person to be attuned.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Does expedition members include those of all factions?

[FM Dynaheir]

2 – How many attunements can the shadow adepts perform each night?


Assume all Bhaalspawn are adepts. Answer is 3. Unless...

Do questions about the group of adventurers assume that ANY role list within the guidelines of the setup is possible, or just the one determined for our group?

[FM Jaheira]

I'm so frustrated that I don't have access to a computer -_- hopefully I'll have one tomorrow and be able to help. If you guys aren't done by then, that is lol. I think expedition members refers to all factions, and the one about members joining refers to the player list being expanded pre-game. The sign-up thread should have the answer for that question.

[FM Jaheira]

Assume all Bhaalspawn are adepts. Answer is 3. Unless...

Do questions about the group of adventurers assume that ANY role list within the guidelines of the setup is possible, or just the one determined for our group?

I would imagine that it would be anything we can conceive, balanced or unbalanced, rational or not since anything else would require info that we do not and should not have.

[FM Dynaheir]

In question #9, do clues faked by an Arcane Trickster count?

[FM Dynaheir]

On the same question, is the one puzzle failed the same night we are solving for?

[FM Dynaheir]

aaahahaha I've almost got it depending on the answers to those questions

[FM Shar-Teel]

I need to sleep. I am off for today.

[Forum Mafia GM]

In question #9, do clues faked by an Arcane Trickster count?

No. Host given clues only.


On the same question, is the one puzzle failed the same night we are solving for?

Yes.

[FM Dynaheir]

How does Shaman feedback work? If a Shaman commands the spirit of an investigative role, does the Shaman recieve the feedback?

[Forum Mafia GM]

How does Shaman feedback work? If a Shaman commands the spirit of an investigative role, does the Shaman recieve the feedback?

The Investigative role would receive the feedback.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Do cult diviners and town diviners count as separate roles?


I have so far

Puzzle solver A, Puzzle Solver B
Diviner
Monk
Ritualist
Shaman
Thief
Shadow thief?
Graverobber?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Do cult diviners and town diviners count as separate roles?

I wonder.

[FM Dynaheir]

The Investigative role would receive the feedback.

Then the feedback is recieved. Got it.

Thief + Diviner + Ritualist + Monk + Graverobber + Student + Monk + 2 other adventurers

-Student chooses Diviner
-Diviner Dies
-Graverobber steals Diviner's ability
-Thief/StudentDiviner/Graverobber use their ability on a living player with clues
-Ritualist/Monk use their ability on a dead player with clues
-Shaman commands the dead Diviner to use his ability on a living player. Dead Diviner gets a clue.
-2 other adventurers receive clues from solving puzzles.

Adventurer + Adventurer + Diviner + Monk + Ritualist + Graverobber + Student + Thief = 8. The answer is 8

[FM Shar-Teel]

That is a serious question regarding question 9. Are cult diviner and town diviner considered unique roles?

[FM Dynaheir]

Do cult diviners and town diviners count as separate roles?


I have so far

Puzzle solver A, Puzzle Solver B
Diviner
Monk
Ritualist
Shaman
Thief
Shadow thief?
Graverobber?

I assume unique means unique initial conditions. Since cult cannot start with Diviner, there can only be one. Also, Shadow Thief doesn't steal clues, only last wills.

[Forum Mafia GM]

That is a serious question regarding question 9. Are cult diviner and town diviner considered unique roles?

As it was a serious answer.

[FM Shar-Teel]

In the words of Lonestar, "I should be sleeping instead of keeping these late hours I have been keeping."

[FM Dynaheir]

Welp. I'm going to bed.

-propose solution:



1: C
2: D
3: A
4: D
5: D
6: C
7: -
8: C
9: D
10:C
11:-
12:B
13:B
14:B
15:C


See if you can verify without me explaining my process. That's a better test.

[FM Montaron]

Now that's the kind of puzzle that I like.

It is WAY too late over here too; I'll get on getting my own solution worked out soon.

[FM Imoen]

Close, Dynahair.

The correct answer:
-Propose Solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. D
5. D
6. C
7.
8. C
9. D
10. C
11. D
12. B
13. B
14. B
15. C

[FM Nalia]

“Our coming was prophesied!”

Looks like I'll be solving those puzzles with you together. Logic puzzles are not that hard for me, and I'll soon propose the solution as well.

Are you happy that you lynched Anomen? I was sure that he was at least not in the cult, and he kept his promise not to reveal my role to everyone. Although you are different from people I knew from Night 3 chat, neither of you strikes me as cult... except for Branwen. We should save that kind of discussion for Day 5 though.

[FM Dynaheir]

Close, Dynahair.

The correct answer:
-Propose Solution

Why does 11 favor D over no answer? Or over A or B for that matter? (I didn't actually go to bed oops)

[FM Dynaheir]

Ah, I see why it can't be A. But I don't see why it favors D over B or nothing.

Leaving them both blank has the same effect as only leaving 7 blank: one answer is correct while the other answer has a correct answer listed but not submitted.

[FM Jan]

CDADBCBCBCDBDAD

This is what I had so far.

[FM Jan]

Hmm after reading some of yours, I can see I made some errors. If you're not sure about why I chose something, just ask. :)

[FM Nalia]

The only odd numbered question with answer A is...

You are forgetting the even numbered questions. For example, I'm considering answer A for question 4.

[FM Nalia]

Because it only tells that of those questions 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 only one of then has the answer A (3). Even-numbered questions (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14) can still have the answer A.

[FM Imoen]

Ah, I see why it can't be A. But I don't see why it favors D over B or nothing.

Leaving them both blank has the same effect as only leaving 7 blank: one answer is correct while the other answer has a correct answer listed but not submitted.

11 cannot be A, and must be D because the other letters would change the answer of 15. Also it should be answered because it is true.


The only odd numbered question with answer A is...

You are forgetting the even numbered questions. For example, I'm considering answer A for question 4.

A is not excluded as an option from #4, but it is incorrect.

[FM Aerie]

Need I say it again? I warned you all.

He fake claimed spy in order to save a cult member. What did you expect?

[FM Branwen]

Makes sense he was a explorer, I would expect him to hype pr to get night actions on him instead of someone important. Even if he got culted, he was doing the right thing by town beforehand.

[FM Branwen]

-propose

1:a
2:b
3:a
4:D
5:C
8:c
9:b
12:b


That is what I have so far. I am a bit tired, and didnt know where to find the additional number of explorers, but the rest of them are just mathematics based on themselves.

[FM Branwen]

-propose

1:a
2:b
3:a
4:D
5:C
8:c
9:b
12:b


That is what I have so far. I am a bit tired, and didnt know where to find the additional number of explorers, but the rest of them are just mathematics based on themselves.

lol 4 is D

[FM Branwen]

Ill check back a little later when im actually awake and attempt to finish the blanks

[FM Branwen]

oh crap 1 is not a sorry

[FM Nalia]

This is what I get so far:

2 - D
3 - A
4 - A
5 - B
7 - B
8 - C
10 - B
11 - B
12 - B
13 - B

The rest are still unaccounted for me. Hope this helps.

[FM Nalia]

Oh yeah before I forgot, how about we make "Safana" checks among us? It might be easier to do with fewer people.

[FM Xzar]

I will try to solve this on my own as soon as I get on my compurer but I doubt that I'm going to get far.

[FM Cernd]

Useful as usual, Xzar. Keep the good work!

[FM Nalia]

That was sarcasm, right?

[FM Cernd]

Never.

-propose solution

Jesus was a zombie.

Night.

[FM Xzar]

Useful as usual, Xzar. Keep the good work!

Thank you master. I always try my best to make you proud. I'm a good doggie.

[FM Nalia]

No way, my solution is much better:

-propose solution


The "ressurected" Jesus was actually Judas in disguise.

[FM Aerie]

Never.

-propose solution


Night.

YOU ARE RIGHT!!! WHY DIDN'T WE THINK OF THIS BEFEORE?

SHOW USS THE WAY, MASTER!
Fm cernd

[FM Nalia]

Good thinking, Aerie. I was actually going to do the same thing.

-unpropose solution

[FM Montaron]

1 - [C]
2 - [D]
3 - [A]
4 - [D]
5 - [D]
6 - [B]
7 - [-]
8 - [C]
9 - [D]
10 - [A]
11 - [D]
12 - [A]
13 - [B]
14 - [B]
15 - [C]

Here is what I have, without reviewing the others.
Any input on this one? Have I made any major mistakes/answers that don't make sense?
Not going to propose this just yet.

[FM Nalia]

Ok, this might sound crazy but the guy who survived one of the puzzles could be the Prophet or Bhaalspawn, because they are immune to death. You get where I'm going?

Xan volunteered for a puzzle solution, failed but survived. I don't think that he survived on his 66% chance alone. Shame that he is not in this room right now.

Can the Prophet and Bhaalspawn die in a trap?

[FM Shar-Teel]

As much as I would like to send Cernd, I don't think we can have someone anti-town/scummy get the clue. The sanctum opening on night 5 is much better and that might not happen if scum get the clue.

Puzzle answers coming this evening.

[FM Kagain]

Someone figure it out and i will go. End of story. If I die boo-hoo for me, if i get the clue I will post it first thing.

[FM Montaron]

Someone figure it out and i will go. End of story. If I die boo-hoo for me, if i get the clue I will post it first thing.

Thank you for being oh so useful and such a valuable person to this puzzle chat. I mean it.
On a side note; Agreed with Shar-Teel. I don't want another Ajantis tonight.

[FM Kagain]

-Propose Solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. D
5. D
6. C
7.
8. C
9. D
10. C
11. D
12. B
13. B
14. B
15. C

I'm just taking someones so i have something, I will be checking in to see if anyone has any new ones.

FM Kagain

[FM Xzar]

-Propose Solution


I'm just taking someones so i have something, I will be checking in to see if anyone has any new ones.

FM Kagain

This seems fishy as fuck because we aren't 100% sure on the answer from the looks of it and still discussing. Yet he votes himself up with a proposed solution of which we aren't 100% sure if it's the right answer. Montaron for example has given a different solution and Dynaheir has a slightly different answer as well.

[FM Nalia]

Not so fast.

Aren't you forgetting a certain role? The thief is supposedly still alive (unless killed by Safana).

[FM Kagain]

This seems fishy as fuck because we aren't 100% sure on the answer from the looks of it and still discussing. Yet he votes himself up with a proposed solution of which we aren't 100% sure if it's the right answer. Montaron for example has given a different solution and Dynaheir has a slightly different answer as well.

Like i said, if everyone can come to a conclusion on the right answer i will use that. Like i said, if i die to the trap oh well, if i get the clue it will be posted first thing.

[FM Imoen]

He fake claimed spy in order to save a cult member. What did you expect?

Given that he then claims to have had a hand in killing that Cult member, I'd expect everyone to be able to look past it.


Useful as usual, Xzar. Keep the good work!

Very funny, us usual, milord.


As much as I would like to send Cernd, I don't think we can have someone anti-town/scummy get the clue. The sanctum opening on night 5 is much better and that might not happen if scum get the clue.

Puzzle answers coming this evening.

Who would you send, then? From where I sit, Cernd is the best person to send.

FM Cernd

[FM Jaheira]

Who would you send, then?

I'm available. Oh wait... I forgot. I'm the prophet cause of something I said d1. Well, Kagain is available. Oh wait, he was in the scum den, so I guess he's prophet too. Dang. Oh well, we can send Cernd, the totally-not-at-all-a-good-cult-target. Sounds great.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I think Cernd is scummy, perhaps avenger. He is not even taking this seriously and insults everyone.

I would trsut Jahiera as I always believed that so called slip was nonsense. Imoen would be the best choice.

[FM Shar-Teel]

FM Imoen

[FM Nalia]

So we are going to "lynch" one of us here instead of solving the puzzle? Interesting suggestion. But wrong.

There might be even zero cult members in this room. Furthermore, the Prophet and Bhaalspawn will survive this trap (probably). While Adventurers and harpers have 66% chance to die. Because the chance of finding and killing the cultists here is much lower, then we must focus on solely in this puzzle.

So I don't want to hear posts like "I think Cernd is scummy" or "Nalia is probably cultist" because goal-wise they will lead us NOWHERE. And if we don't solve anything, the result will be the same.

So for we should have one sole goal: To solve this puzzle correctly so that no one will die, and the puzzle clue is received.

[FM Kagain]

if I volunteer can i override the votes on people

I'm done with wasting peoples time on this "this person is scummy and that person is scummy" crap while we are still undecided on the answer. If we are going to make progress we decide on an answer then go scum hunting. My guess is there is at least one scum in here. If we spend all day trying to scum hunting we will never get this puzzle solved, first we decide on answer then we scum hunt. If everyone is going to send each other on this i will decide it once and for all by going to shut people up and focus on the puzzle and not bicker at each other like children right now

[FM Jaheira]

Self-votes are only considered in the event of a tie between 2 people (IE you and I both have 3 votes from various people, you vote for yourself and I don't. In that instance, you would be sent and I would not. If you hadn't self-voted, it would be random'd between us.) In other words, it is still a majority vote on who to send and nobody can say "I'm going, Idc what you guys say, screw you all"

Anyway. Getting back to the puzzle, I'm gonna go check the sign-up thread to see how many were added pre-game.

[FM Jaheira]

Darn it. Signup thread is gone. Crafty hosts... I'm pretty sure it was 36 and 1 player was added. Can anybody else remember how many were added?

[FM Kagain]

Darn it. Signup thread is gone. Crafty hosts... I'm pretty sure it was 36 and 1 player was added. Can anybody else remember how many were added?

No i dunno. but do you mind voting me so we can shut the others up and have them focus on the puzzle until we decide on a definite answer.

[FM Jaheira]

I'm going to refrain from voting until we have a clear consensus on the answer/who should go. I don't want people to heap votes onto somebody just because X Y and Z person voted them and end up locking that somebody into the position of volunteering and end up regretting it later for whatever reason.

[FM Shar-Teel]

So we are going to "lynch" one of us here instead of solving the puzzle? Interesting suggestion. But wrong.

There might be even zero cult members in this room. Furthermore, the Prophet and Bhaalspawn will survive this trap (probably). While Adventurers and harpers have 66% chance to die. Because the chance of finding and killing the cultists here is much lower, then we must focus on solely in this puzzle.

So I don't want to hear posts like "I think Cernd is scummy" or "Nalia is probably cultist" because goal-wise they will lead us NOWHERE. And if we don't solve anything, the result will be the same.

So for we should have one sole goal: To solve this puzzle correctly so that no one will die, and the puzzle clue is received.

You are totally misunderstanding. I want to send someone WE TRUST. To that end, Cernd doesn't fit. I have faith in our puzzle solving abilities. If I had time, I'd crank out my own answers but I am off to work after like a 10 minute work break.

Kagain, self-voting is in the FAQ.... note: 4 for 4 nights of people asking that question.

[FM Kagain]

You are totally misunderstanding. I want to send someone WE TRUST. To that end, Cernd doesn't fit. I have faith in our puzzle solving abilities. If I had time, I'd crank out my own answers but I am off to work after like a 10 minute work break.

Kagain, self-voting is in the FAQ.... note: 4 for 4 nights of people asking that question.

You know people still don't read it even after it has been asked because there are so many. I don't get when someone volunteers to test an answer that everyone instantly goes against it

[FM Imoen]

Ser Kagain seems to really want to go. Interesting.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Kagain, given the timeframe, we absolutely must have an answer that we trust with a person we trust OR use the puzzle as a lynch. Given the puzzle is solvable, using the puzzle as a lynch is moronic. So yeah, I'll object to a volunteer who reads as scummy to me.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Can someone explain the gnomes while I am out?

Also, is the dining room possibly another puzzle room?

[FM Xzar]

I would trust Shar-Teel the most to give us the clues to be honest.

[FM Jaheira]

I would trust Shar too, but she's arguably one of our most powerful PRs/WIFOM tools against the Cult and should not be risked in a puzzle. Harper Paragon can also Smite her once the Sanctum opens to prove if she's Culted or not, so keeping her alive has no risks, and many, many benefits. As such I would like Imoen, myself, or Kagain to go (I greatly prefer Imoen as she has been Townish all game. Unfortunately that means she is likely to be Culted, but I trust her over Kagain, and obviously I trust myself over Kagain as well.).

[FM Aerie]

Fm imoen

What about montaron? maybe he wants to try the puzzle.

[FM Kagain]

Knowing shar, when shes forced to decide i'm willing to know who she will chose. But seeing how nobody is going to do anything and continue to bicker i'm done then, afk mode. Tell me when you guys decide to pick an answer

[FM Imoen]

Knowing shar, when shes forced to decide i'm willing to know who she will chose. But seeing how nobody is going to do anything and continue to bicker i'm done then, afk mode. Tell me when you guys decide to pick an answer

It appears Kagain is participating in a different discussion than I. In my discussion, I see no bickering.

[FM Imoen]

Fm imoen

What about montaron? maybe he wants to try the puzzle.

I know not if I trust Montaron enough to give him a clue, nor am I so suspicious of him that I wish him to die at the hands of traps. I think it unwise to select him for this task. I will do it, if that is the consensus we reach. I shall have to rewrite my last will in case we fail and I am slain by traps.

[FM Montaron]

Cernd? Don't make me laugh.
I wouldn't trust this guy with something so important. I don't want an Ajantis v2.
Don't think I'd even trust him to serve me a glass of water.

If I had to pick, It would be either Shar-Teel, Imoen, or, if you guys think it is wise, myself.

I'm not sure if I should take your suggestion as a compliment or a hint that you, maybe, want me dead, Aerie. :(

[FM Cernd]

Because the only player who hasn't been involved in any mislynch, and who has been targeting cultists since d1 must be scum!
You are a joke and should feel bad.


It's just a question of tiiiiiiiiiime...
It's running out for you.
It won't be long until you'll do exactly what they want you to. ♫

[FM Montaron]

Because the only player who hasn't been involved in any mislynch, and who has been targeting cultists since d1 must be scum!
You are a joke and should feel bad.


It's just a question of tiiiiiiiiiime...
It's running out for you.
It won't be long until you'll do exactly what they want you to. ♫

Oh I'm not calling you scum, dear Cernd.
Even if you were the Duke I wouldn't trust you with this. Your general attitude and trollishness gives me absolutely no faith in your ability to help us solve this puzzle.

[FM Cernd]

Someone called me scum. I laugh at them.

FM Cernd

[FM Montaron]

FM Imoen

[FM Cernd]

-reveal

[FM Ferengi]

Can the Prophet and Bhaalspawn die in a trap?
No


if I volunteer can i override the votes on people
No

[FM Jaheira]

FM Imoen Again, I am available to be sent if the puzzle is deemed too risky to send Imoen, but the general consensus seems to think she is our most reliable volunteer.

[FM Ferengi]

Does expedition members include those of all factions?
Yes


Do questions about the group of adventurers assume that ANY role list within the guidelines of the setup is possible, or just the one determined for our group?
"In theory" implies that it can be any composition that fits the setup, not necessarily the composition of the current expedition.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Did Cernd's action do anything?

[FM Dynaheir]

Duke (Mayor)
May reveal self during the day.

Special:
The Duke’s vote counts for 3 after revealing
May not be healed after revealing

Even if Cernd was Duke, we wouldn't know it.

[FM Aerie]

Did Cernd's action do anything?

Duke can only reveal during the day be Pming the host.

[FM Ferengi]

Did Cernd's action do anything?

Yes, it confused you.

[FM Dynaheir]

I think Bhaal and his butler tire of answering questions that could be answered just by reading the setup (I am just as guilty of this as anyone)

[FM Shar-Teel]

I have gotten like no sleep in these past few days (not due to this game... those pesky clients).

However, 4 is most definitely C. To get to 35, you need the lunatic to be lynched. However, the lunatic dies during the day.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I have
1. ??
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. ??
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. ??
11. ??
12. B
13. D
14. ??
15. ??

That's what I have.

[FM Jaheira]

I think A = 15 = the answer to 6 which is C or D. What do you guys think?

[FM Branwen]

This is what I have so far, not sure if I will have enough time to finish it; I am stumped on additional members entering the ElderCity (Day 2) does it refer to reserves? If so, how many reserves were added Day 2 maybe? Reference the list of living members of D1 to D2... I have to go for a bit then work.

-propose solution

1: Not A
2: c At night, may attune 3 targets’ souls to the shadow weave.
3: a received from 12
4: D Jester kills all non-visiting roles, Half-dragon is visited by all the rest. 37 max roles, 1 survives.
5: C receieved from 8; also gives non-answers to 6 7 and 9
6: Not A
7: Not A, Not B
8: c Question 3 is already A at this point
9: C With 3 puzzles; 2 generic roles get clues; Thief steals, Coroner receives, Ritualist Recieves, Diviner Divines, Graverobber uses stolen ability. Note that Diviner is a unique role, whether converted to cult or not.
10: Not C,
11: Not A
12: b receieved from 3

[FM Shar-Teel]

4. So close Branwen. Jester dies during the day. It's 35.

Jahiera, 15 is not A. 3 is A.

[FM Shar-Teel]

2 is also wrong. The answers are 0 1 2 3. Therefore 3 targets at night is D.

[FM Branwen]

-propose solution

1: Not A
2: D At night, may attune 3 targets’ souls to the shadow weave.
3: a received from 12
4: C Jester kills all non-visiting roles, Half-dragon is visited by all the rest. 37 max roles, 1 survives.
5: C receieved from 8; also gives non-answers to 6 7 and 9
6: Not A
7: Not A, Not B
8: c Question 3 is already A at this point
9: C With 3 puzzles; 2 generic roles get clues; Thief steals, Coroner receives, Ritualist Recieves, Diviner Divines, Graverobber uses stolen ability. Note that Diviner is a unique role, whether converted to cult or not.
10: Not C,
11: Not A
12: b receieved from 3


fixed

[FM Shar-Teel]

Does the number of gnomes in 15 include or exclude the answer to 15?

I should be able to deduce my remaining 3 questions at that point.

[FM Jaheira]

What I meant was:

15 (how many gnomes it takes to put out the chandelier) is the same number as 1 (How many dead bodies there are in the dining hall) which is dependent on 6 ( Gnomes only work in groups of X). Since 2/3 are not answers to question 1 but 5/7 is, then 6 is either C or D, which directly affects the answers of 1 and 15.

Make sense?

[FM Branwen]

Thoughts on 6 and 15: they do not work in groups of 2, 15 adds one additional gnome with an answer, I would assume pluging in answers to 15 would give the rest of the solution

[FM Dynaheir]

What I meant was:

15 (how many gnomes it takes to put out the chandelier) is the same number as 1 (How many dead bodies there are in the dining hall) which is dependent on 6 ( Gnomes only work in groups of X). Since 2/3 are not answers to question 1 but 5/7 is, then 6 is either C or D, which directly affects the answers of 1 and 15.

Make sense?

Zombies are also dead bodies.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Yeah I didn't realize the chandelier was in the dining hall. *scraps half the answers* Ugh.

[FM Branwen]

What I meant was:

15 (how many gnomes it takes to put out the chandelier) is the same number as 1 (How many dead bodies there are in the dining hall) which is dependent on 6 ( Gnomes only work in groups of X). Since 2/3 are not answers to question 1 but 5/7 is, then 6 is either C or D, which directly affects the answers of 1 and 15.

Make sense?

The existence of gnomes and how they work or what their putting up doesn't mean their in the dining hall with zombies. DAMN YOU GNOMES!!!!! I think the number of bodies is reflected through plugging in answers and trial and error. Same with additional members, which can be deducted from 15. Those gnomes are gangsta's.

[FM Branwen]

Still just asks how many to do it, not that they are doing it.

[FM Branwen]

I am too dense for the rest, Shar-teel could you plug in some numbers to 15, including an extra gnome with the answer, and try to deduce? You sound nerdy enough to do this.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Ok. I've figured it out... and not by guess and check.

There is a presumption that the gnomes are the dead bodies in the dining room with the zombies.

Question 1 says there are either 3, 2, 5, or 4 gnomes.

Question 6 says gnomes work in groups of 2, 3, 5 or 7. Groups of 7 is impossible as there cannot be 7 gnomes due to question one. 4 gnomes is also impossible because gnomes cannot work in groups of four. So that leaves either groups of 3 or 5.

A group of 3 would make the answer to 6 A. That's not accurate.

Therefore gnomes work in groups of 5. That makes the answer to 1 C and 6 is also C.

[FM Jaheira]

Are the zombies in Question One considered in the dead body count?

Of course the zombies could also be party of the gnome crew....This question is horribly ambiguous :/

[FM Jaheira]

45 minutes till night ends. Unless Imoen gets on, we might need a new volunteer.

Hello, FM Ghost! I see you are haunting this thread (Get it? XD). Thoughts? It could go towards getting you vouched for. (Unless you're not a Reserve...That'd be awkward if you're one of the dead players watching us. HI ANOMEN)

[FM Shar-Teel]

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. ???
12. B
13. D
14. ???
15. ???

Jahiera, supposing I am right and the zombies are in the body count... what do you think of my answers so far?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Jaheria, Anomen was an explorer.

Is today really 24 hours?

[FM Shar-Teel]

**tonight?

[FM Ferengi]

Does the number of gnomes in 15 include or exclude the answer to 15?
Whatever makes the most sense for the way it's written


Are the zombies in Question One considered in the dead body count?
Possibly.

[FM Montaron]

45 minutes till night ends. Unless Imoen gets on, we might need a new volunteer.


Calm down, Speedy Gonzales.
We have ONE DAY and 45 minutes 'til the night ends.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Whatever makes the most sense for the way it's written


Possibly.

Can you answer a question without a hedge? *teasing*

[FM Branwen]

7 Not A
10
11 Not A
13 Not A
14
15 not a, not c,
6 c's, 1 d, 1 a, 1 b

4 remaining answers must be D or B, either all D's and 1 B or vice versa.

[FM Jaheira]

Lulz, I'm such a derp. No we have another 24. Gosh I hate how foggy my head gets when I'm sick >_> stupid cold. I'll post again with thoughts on your answers, I just wanna correct my stupid error.

[FM Shar-Teel]

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

That SHOULD be the answer to the riddle.

[FM Branwen]

Are gnomes considered people?

[FM Montaron]

With what was said about the gnomes, my solution is most likely invalid. I am not home yet and won't be for a while; I'll review my answers and correct it by tomorrow to see if we get the same answer.

[FM Branwen]

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

That SHOULD be the answer to the riddle.

why no submission for 7?

[FM Ferengi]

Are gnomes considered people?
Of course! Just because someone is small doesn't make them less of a person!

[FM Branwen]

- propose

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D


FM Branwen I don't mind going tonight. This sounds about right. A little iffy on the 7 answer though.

[FM Branwen]

Of course! Just because someone is small doesn't make them less of a person!

I hear the cry of the vertically challenged...

[FM Shar-Teel]

In order to answer 11, you must no submit 7.

No one said mafia is for the politically correct.

[FM Ferengi]

I hear the cry of the vertically challenged...
Cespenar flies over Branwen's head.
I'm higher than you!

[FM Shar-Teel]

Smokes a joint while looking at the main puzzle.

I might be on the ground... but I'm higher than that ivory tower y'all are living in.

[FM Montaron]

- propose

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D


FM Branwen I don't mind going tonight. This sounds about right. A little iffy on the 7 answer though.

Thanks for the contribution, but you're probably the last person I'd send to answer the puzzle tonight.
I'd stick with Imoen, while Shar-Teel would be my backup choice.

Why do you want to go answer it yourself? Considering the high amount of suspicion that was put on you, do you think it would be a correct choice? Don't you think the others would heavily question our judgement for sending you in there?

[FM Branwen]

Thanks for the contribution, but you're probably the last person I'd send to answer the puzzle tonight.
I'd stick with Imoen, while Shar-Teel would be my backup choice.

Why do you want to go answer it yourself? Considering the high amount of suspicion that was put on you, do you think it would be a correct choice? Don't you think the others would heavily question our judgement for sending you in there?

Doubtful. I have survived this long, without much suspicion for lynching. I will be fine, and have the clue ready tomorrow.

[FM Branwen]

Besides, all my actions and posts have been either to scum hunt, aid in the puzzle, or increase my chances of not being targeted by cult or killing role. I am the most likely not to be culted/killed by dawn.

[FM Branwen]

Anyoen considered that safana was not doppleganger? Could have been shadow adept/shadowthief combination maybe?

[FM Kagain]

-propose solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

[FM Shar-Teel]

Anyoen considered that safana was not doppleganger? Could have been shadow adept/shadowthief combination maybe?

With your alternative FoSing and buddying of me... nope still pretty sure you're Safana. I could be wrong but it just screams you are Safana.

[FM Branwen]

I also believe that Nalia should be the next on the lynch list tomorrow. I think she was hiding clues to hear from everyone else to see if the main puzzle was solved, to deter a chance to collaborate on the answer. When she felt safe, she gave her feedback (possibly corrupted).

There is no reason whatsoever to have hidden that feedback for so long yesterday. It has been general consensus that hindering the solution of the main puzzle is anti-town.

[FM Branwen]

With your alternative FoSing and buddying of me... nope still pretty sure you're Safana. I could be wrong but it just screams you are Safana.

Shar-teel, I proved I was branwen yesterday I posted from my puzzle chat.

[FM Branwen]

I had my suspicions of you, but your work on the puzzle tonight removes doubt you are cult from me.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Shar-teel, I proved I was branwen yesterday I posted from my puzzle chat.

What post? I missed that. I just saw recapping.

[FM Branwen]

What post? I missed that. I just saw recapping.

Bleh I am not going back through the day to find it. I posted a quote from my last puzzle chat, you can look if you like.

[FM Jaheira]

She did, and nobody called it out as false, so yeah. Not Safana.

Branwen, you're officially retracting your Cleric claim then?

[FM Branwen]

She did, and nobody called it out as false, so yeah. Not Safana.

Branwen, you're officially retracting your Cleric claim then?

Yea, I am just an explorer. I as hoping to place the wrong attention on me throughout the days, but I wasn't going to waste the town power roles time to find out i wasnt sefana. Plus, I thought as long as there was a "cleric" in the puzzle chats, my solution solver would be more or less safe. Which has proven true so far.

[FM Jaheira]

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/22755-Day-4-Carnage?p=372132#post372132

Post where Branwen quotes from her night Chat "The Mage Tower" to prove herself

[FM Branwen]

So..I am going to let that sink in for everyone, and I want to spend some time with the kiddos before work, but I will be available beginning of day to post clue (possibly first post even) so I don't mind doing it. I'll be back tomorrow!

[FM Shar-Teel]

*throws out Doppelganger notes*

[FM Jaheira]

Lol Shar. It seems like you're throwing away a lot of notes lately XD

[FM Shar-Teel]

*grabs Vodka* *throws out Anomen notes*

Yup! I'mma get drunk now. Might have better luck confusing everyone if my actions make no sense. :)

[FM Shar-Teel]

Puzzle solved so it's not like I need these brain cells.

[FM Kagain]

FM Shar-Teel

[FM Shar-Teel]

- propose solution



1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. B
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

[FM Shar-Teel]

Derp one of these answers has been changed. Grr.

[FM Shar-Teel]

-propose solution


1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

[FM Shar-Teel]

Branwen, Kagain, change your answers. 6 has B. It should be C. I must have made a typo.

[FM Cernd]

Are gnomes considered people?
That's racist.

[FM Dynaheir]

I don't like Imoen's attitude but she's been on the right side of every lynch so far...

FM Imoen

[FM Dynaheir]

plus she has a better answer than yours Shar-Teel. At a glance I see that your #5 and #13 are incorrect.

[FM Shar-Teel]

D, why are my five and 13 incorrect?

[FM Dynaheir]

D, why are my five and 13 incorrect?

If the answer to 5 is C, then the next question with the same answer (C) is 6. So the answer to 5 is A. The answer should be D

As for 13, I believe there were originally 35 adventurers -> currently 37.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Damn it let me check my notes again. Gnomes are groups of 5.

[FM Imoen]

-propose solution

Your answer for #4 is incorrect. It should be D.


I don't like Imoen's attitude but she's been on the right side of every lynch so far...

FM Imoen

Not entirely true. I was wrong about Edwin. Other than that, however, you are correct.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Five cannot be A. Three is A and there is one odd answer that is A.

In fact, answering 5 as A would mean that 5 and 6 would NOT have the same answer. 5 would be A. 6 would be C. That's not the same answer. Therefore 5 is wrong. 5 is not A. Answering 5 as C would make the statement untrue as well.

Good catch. I know 6 is C due to the rest of the puzzle. I know B cannot be the answer as no submitting is proper. Therefore, the answer must be D like you postulated.


---------

Imoen, no 4 is C. The lunatic dies during the day making 36 deaths not thirty six.

[FM Shar-Teel]

**35

[FM Shar-Teel]

-propose solution


1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. D
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. B
14. B
15. D

[FM Branwen]

- Propose Solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

[FM Shar-Teel]

Use the one in my last post Branwen. Dynaheir pointed out a few errors in my reasoning.

[FM Branwen]

-propose solution


1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. D
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. B
14. B
15. D

Made it spiffy too.

[FM Kagain]

- Propose Solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. C
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. D
14. A
15. D

[FM Shar-Teel]

Kagain, wrong one again. I had some flaws. Use the new version Branwen has posted.

[FM Imoen]

Five cannot be A. Three is A and there is one odd answer that is A.

In fact, answering 5 as A would mean that 5 and 6 would NOT have the same answer. 5 would be A. 6 would be C. That's not the same answer. Therefore 5 is wrong. 5 is not A. Answering 5 as C would make the statement untrue as well.

Good catch. I know 6 is C due to the rest of the puzzle. I know B cannot be the answer as no submitting is proper. Therefore, the answer must be D like you postulated.


---------

Imoen, no 4 is C. The lunatic dies during the day making 36 deaths not thirty six.

37 Explorers. All of them survive to the second day.
Lunatic is exiled during the second day. 36 people remain come nightfall.

[FM Kagain]

-propose solution

1. C
2. D
3. A
4. C
5. D
6. C
7. No submission
8. C
9. D
10. A
11. D
12. B
13. B
14. B
15. D

[FM Branwen]

37 Explorers. All of them survive to the second day.
Lunatic is exiled during the second day. 36 people remain come nightfall.

lunatic kills all non-visiting roles. The rest die to half-dragon.

[FM Imoen]

lunatic kills all non-visiting roles. The rest die to half-dragon.

I know. I am simply explaining that the total number of deaths on night 2 is 36, not 35.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Ok, I sat there and actually thought this out. Everyone but the person who opened the inner sanctum lives. That is 35 not 36. I thought Imoen accounted for that guy but she did not.

Inner Sanctum was opened night 1.

Half-Dragon alerts.
Both Barbarians and the Cleric visit the Half-Dragon.
All four are now dead. (4)
All thirteen diviners visit the half-dragon. (17)
All four bounty hunters visit the half-dragon with a contract. (21)
Two harpers, not bodyguards, visit the half-dragon. (23)
1 Prophet tries to witch the half-dragon and dies. (24)
1 Arcane Trickster (starting cult PR) visits the half dragon. (25)


----------------

At this point, the Duke, 3 assassins and 7 explorers are left alive.

The lunatic lynch handles the 7 explorers.
The four bounty hunter contracts eliminate the Duke and three assassins.


That is 36 deaths. But wait... there's more....

The person who solves the inner sanctum puzzle (which is a prerequisite for all these guys dying), gets a shiny AUTO VEST

With not enough kills for everyone to die twice, there are only 35 deaths, not 36.

[FM Jan]

2 is also wrong. The answers are 0 1 2 3. Therefore 3 targets at night is D.


Ok, I sat there and actually thought this out. Everyone but the person who opened the inner sanctum lives. That is 35 not 36. I thought Imoen accounted for that guy but she did not.

Inner Sanctum was opened night 1.

Half-Dragon alerts.
Both Barbarians and the Cleric visit the Half-Dragon.
All four are now dead. (4)
All thirteen diviners visit the half-dragon. (17)
All four bounty hunters visit the half-dragon with a contract. (21)
Two harpers, not bodyguards, visit the half-dragon. (23)
1 Prophet tries to witch the half-dragon and dies. (24)
1 Arcane Trickster (starting cult PR) visits the half dragon. (25)


----------------

At this point, the Duke, 3 assassins and 7 explorers are left alive.

The lunatic lynch handles the 7 explorers.
The four bounty hunter contracts eliminate the Duke and three assassins.


That is 36 deaths. But wait... there's more....

The person who solves the inner sanctum puzzle (which is a prerequisite for all these guys dying), gets a shiny AUTO VEST

With not enough kills for everyone to die twice, there are only 35 deaths, not 36.

Lunatic get vest?

[FM Jaheira]

Bounty Hunter wouldn't work :/ If the Half Dragon chooses to kill someone it forgoes its night action, meaning no alert.

But if you change 1 BH to Thief, Cult gets 3 Assasins that could theoretically all visit the Bhaalspawn.

[FM Imoen]

Ok, I sat there and actually thought this out. Everyone but the person who opened the inner sanctum lives. That is 35 not 36. I thought Imoen accounted for that guy but she did not.

Inner Sanctum was opened night 1.

Half-Dragon alerts.
Both Barbarians and the Cleric visit the Half-Dragon.
All four are now dead. (4)
All thirteen diviners visit the half-dragon. (17)
All four bounty hunters visit the half-dragon with a contract. (21)
Two harpers, not bodyguards, visit the half-dragon. (23)
1 Prophet tries to witch the half-dragon and dies. (24)
1 Arcane Trickster (starting cult PR) visits the half dragon. (25)


----------------

At this point, the Duke, 3 assassins and 7 explorers are left alive.

The lunatic lynch handles the 7 explorers.
The four bounty hunter contracts eliminate the Duke and three assassins.


That is 36 deaths. But wait... there's more....

The person who solves the inner sanctum puzzle (which is a prerequisite for all these guys dying), gets a shiny AUTO VEST

With not enough kills for everyone to die twice, there are only 35 deaths, not 36.

lunatic gets autovest. Is banished. Still 36 deaths.

[FM Imoen]

Lunatic get vest?

Ah, you beat me to it.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Damn it! *rages at the screen* That is why I don't do dramatic stuff. Why couldn't everyone die night 1 so I'd have to be right?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Bounty Hunter wouldn't work :/ If the Half Dragon chooses to kill someone it forgoes its night action, meaning no alert.

But if you change 1 BH to Thief, Cult gets 3 Assasins that could theoretically all visit the Bhaalspawn.

However, that means the solution goes back to being 35. Because the thief would necessarily get the autovest and live. Therefore the lunatic could not.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Do the bountyhunters die if they select the Half-Dragon for a contract, even if he opts not to use the contracts?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Do lunatic deaths round up or down? How many people die if there are 17 people alive after the lunatic gets lynched?

[FM Shar-Teel]

If Jahiera is right, then both the thief and the duke live (unless avenger deaths round up), that gets us back to 35.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Imoen, I challenge you to kill all 36 players after the lunatic dies. I don't think you can because 35 is literally the only thing that fits in four after I've done it again and again.

[FM Kagain]

Person who gets autovest is slaughtered by jester, im betting jester would ignore the vest

does jester slaughter ignore any vestings and immunities (minus the sanctum immunity)

[FM Imoen]

Ok, I sat there and actually thought this out. Everyone but the person who opened the inner sanctum lives. That is 35 not 36. I thought Imoen accounted for that guy but she did not.

Inner Sanctum was opened night 1.

Half-Dragon alerts.
Both Barbarians and the Cleric visit the Half-Dragon.
All four are now dead. (4)
All thirteen diviners visit the half-dragon. (17)
All four bounty hunters visit the half-dragon with a contract. (21)
Two harpers, not bodyguards, visit the half-dragon. (23)
1 Prophet tries to witch the half-dragon and dies. (24)
1 Arcane Trickster (starting cult PR) visits the half dragon. (25)


----------------

At this point, the Duke, 3 assassins and 7 explorers are left alive.

The lunatic lynch handles the 7 explorers.
The four bounty hunter contracts eliminate the Duke and three assassins.


That is 36 deaths. But wait... there's more....

The person who solves the inner sanctum puzzle (which is a prerequisite for all these guys dying), gets a shiny AUTO VEST

With not enough kills for everyone to die twice, there are only 35 deaths, not 36.


However, that means the solution goes back to being 35. Because the thief would necessarily get the autovest and live. Therefore the lunatic could not.

No.

- On night one, shadow adept A attunes the thief, the half-dragon, and a fighter
- On night one, shadow adept B attunes the duke, an explorer, and a second fighter
- On night one, both Harpers, who are both alchemists, each give alchemists' fire to a different fighter
-Thief opens sanctum.
-Lunatic is lynched. 36 explorers remain. 1/5th of 19 rounded up is 4, so 4 people will die to lunatic.
-All Adventurers are fighters. All professions that may do so (except the shadow adepts and 2 of the fighters), but including all 3 assassins that may now all attack simultaneously, visit the half-dragon. The 3 assassins (and the 11 fighters) more than negate the cleric's healing. The shadow thief is caught in the half-dragon's fire like everyone else, but the autovest he received from opening the inner sanctum saves him. However, since the thief and the half-dragon are both attuned to the shadow weave, they are both slain. This leaves seven Explorers, one duke, two fighters, and two shadow adepts.
-Lunatic chooses only explorers. 1 duke, 3 explorers, 2 shadow adepts, and 2 fighters remain.
-The 2 fighters, who both have alchemists' fire, both use their alchemists' fire on the two shadow adepts and assault the duke and attuned explorer, respectively. Since the duke, explorer, and both fighters are all attuned to the shadow weave, they all perish.

36 deaths on night 2.

[FM Imoen]

No.

- On night one, shadow adept A attunes the thief, the half-dragon, and a fighter
- On night one, shadow adept B attunes the duke, an explorer, and a second fighter
- On night one, both Harpers, who are both alchemists, each give alchemists' fire to a different fighter
-Thief opens sanctum.
-Lunatic is lynched. 36 explorers remain. 1/5th of 19 rounded up is 4, so 4 people will die to lunatic.
-All Adventurers are fighters. All professions that may do so (except the shadow adepts and 2 of the fighters), but including all 3 assassins that may now all attack simultaneously, visit the half-dragon. The 3 assassins (and the 11 fighters) more than negate the cleric's healing. The shadow thief is caught in the half-dragon's fire like everyone else, but the autovest he received from opening the inner sanctum saves him. However, since the thief and the half-dragon are both attuned to the shadow weave, they are both slain. This leaves seven Explorers, one duke, two fighters, and two shadow adepts.
-Lunatic chooses only explorers. 1 duke, 3 explorers, 2 shadow adepts, and 2 fighters remain.
-The 2 fighters, who both have alchemists' fire, both use their alchemists' fire on the two shadow adepts and assault the duke and attuned explorer, respectively. Since the duke, explorer, and both fighters are all attuned to the shadow weave, they all perish.

36 deaths on night 2.

In case it's not clear above, the 2 fighters that are attuned to the shadow weave are the same ones that receive alchemists' fire. All mentions of "the two fighters" refers to these same two fighters.

[FM Shar-Teel]

35 deaths. Shadow Adept B has an autovest from killing the Half-Dragon.

[FM Imoen]

No.

- On night one, shadow adept A attunes the thief, the half-dragon, and a fighter
- On night one, shadow adept B attunes the duke, an explorer, and a second fighter
- On night one, both Harpers, who are both alchemists, each give alchemists' fire to a different fighter
-Thief opens sanctum.
-Lunatic is lynched. 36 explorers remain. 1/5th of 19 rounded up is 4, so 4 people will die to lunatic.
-All Adventurers are fighters. All professions that may do so (except the shadow adepts and 2 of the fighters), but including all 3 assassins that may now all attack simultaneously, visit the half-dragon. The 3 assassins (and the 11 fighters) more than negate the cleric's healing. The shadow thief is caught in the half-dragon's fire like everyone else, but the autovest he received from opening the inner sanctum saves him. However, since the thief and the half-dragon are both attuned to the shadow weave, they are both slain. This leaves seven Explorers, one duke, two fighters, and two shadow adepts.
-Lunatic chooses only explorers. 1 duke, 3 explorers, 2 shadow adepts, and 2 fighters remain.
-The 2 fighters, who both have alchemists' fire, both use their alchemists' fire on the two shadow adepts and assault the duke and attuned explorer, respectively. Since the duke, explorer, and both fighters are all attuned to the shadow weave, they all perish.

36 deaths on night 2.

After further review, it seems I left something out. That would leave two explorers alive. Hmm. I missed something. I will update shortly.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Is an autovest awarded on the same night when a Bhaalspawn kills another Bhaalspawn?

[FM Imoen]

35 deaths. Shadow Adept B has an autovest from killing the Half-Dragon.

That depends upon when autovests are received in the night. However, about a thousand other things killed the half-dragon as well, so I'm not sure if the shadow adept takes precedence. Must re-read the archives of the gods' QA session.

[FM Imoen]

Is an autovest awarded on the same night when a Bhaalspawn kills another Bhaalspawn?

The more important question is:

When in the OoO is a bhaalspawn's autovest for killing another bhaalspawn awarded?

[FM Shar-Teel]

The lunatic should take out all 7 explorers. Suppose a unanimous lynch btw. There's no hammer in this setup.

[FM Shar-Teel]

However, I don't see who kills your harpers.

[FM Imoen]

Actually, the autovests don't matter. I think I fixed it.

- On night one, shadow adept A attunes the thief, and two fighters
- On night one, shadow adept B attunes the duke, an explorer, and a third fighter
- On night one, both Harpers, who are both alchemists, each give alchemists' fire to a different fighter
-Thief opens sanctum.
-Lunatic is lynched. 36 explorers remain. 1/5th of 19 rounded up is 4, so 4 people will die to lunatic.
-All Adventurers are fighters. All professions that may do so (except the shadow adepts and 3 of the fighters), but including all 3 assassins that may now all attack simultaneously, visit the half-dragon. The 3 assassins (and the 11 fighters) more than negate the cleric's healing (and the two autovests received from killing bhaalspawn). Though the shadow adepts may not attune, they may still remove curse. So they remove curse from the half-dragon and perish. The shadow thief is caught in the half-dragon's fire like everyone else, but the autovest he received from opening the inner sanctum saves him. This leaves seven Explorers, one duke, one thief, and three fighters.
-Lunatic chooses only explorers. 1 duke, 1 thief, 3 explorers, and 3 fighters remain.
-Attuned fighter #1 uses his alchemists' fire on the thief and assaults an un-attuned explorer. His assault is blocked by the thief's autovest, but they are both attuned, so they still perish. 1 duke, 2 explorers, 2 fighters remain.
-Attuned fighter #2 uses his alchemists' fire on the duke, and assaults an un-attuned explorer. 1 explorer, 1 fighter remain.
-Attuned fighter #3 assaults the attuned explorer. Both are attuned, so both perish.

36 deaths.

[FM Imoen]

Oh, the alchemists' have one night between fire-giving. AAAAAHHHH. Ok. I will find a way.

[FM Imoen]

The lunatic should take out all 7 explorers. Suppose a unanimous lynch btw. There's no hammer in this setup.

There is after the Inner Sanctum is unsealed.

[FM Shar-Teel]

You have an illegal action. The half-dragon was never cursed, therefore the SA's cannot remove the curse on the half-dragon.

[FM Shar-Teel]

There is after the Inner Sanctum is unsealed.

I might have to redo mine then as well.

[FM Imoen]

You have an illegal action. The half-dragon was never cursed, therefore the SA's cannot remove the curse on the half-dragon.

They can remove curse on any target, I believe. If the target has no curses, they will simply not be affected.

[FM Branwen]

says maximum possible deaths, why is there need to discuss what if's like this? we proved one way to get that many deaths, that is enough.

[FM Branwen]

Jester opens sanctum receives vest, and is lynched

[FM Shar-Teel]

says maximum possible deaths, why is there need to discuss what if's like this? we proved one way to get that many deaths, that is enough.

Imoen and I disagree on if 36 deaths is possible. Without proving 36 deaths, then she is wrong and likely to die. I just solved 35 however.

Assumption: Puzzle solved on the night of the lunatic lynch.

Role setup, 3 evokers, 2 Harper Agents, 5 lunatics, 1 Prophet, 1 Cult Power Role, 3 assassins, 1 Duke, 1 Cleric, 7 explorers



The puzzle is solved on the night of the lunatic lynch meaning 8 people die for lynching the lunatic. Remove the duke and the explorers.


On N1, the evokers each visit a different assassin. Night 2, they visit a different assassin than the one they visited previously, trying to add another fireball but getting caught in the blasts. All the visitors go visit any one of the three evokers. The evokers are killed. Everyone is killed.

Everyone dies but the person who solved the puzzle. Considering the lynched the lunatic could not solve the puzzle (he was dead), whoever solved the puzzle lives.

[FM Shar-Teel]

**All visitors visit the assassins not the evokers.

[FM Nalia]

This just struck me now.


Assuming the expedition fails one puzzle, and all roles are unique...

Is Bhaal telling us that all power roles in this game are unique? If that's true then there is NO way the Branwen could be the second cleric. We should talk about that tomorrow.

I agree foe the solution that was submitted so far except for question 7. Explain to everyone why this question must have no answer.

[FM Shar-Teel]

11 says 7 has no answer.

By the way, my answer might generate 36 deaths.

Can an assassin solve the puzzle night 1 for question 4? Or would that count as too far against win con and therefore not be allowed?

If an assassin solves the puzzle, there's your 36th death Imoen... Argh. I hate being wrong.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Will solve the letters again tomorrow with Imoen's answer if the cultists could solve the puzzle.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Shit never mind the evokers don't die in my scenario because they all get an autovest from bhaalspawn deaths? Or do they

How is the Evoker infinite loop of autovesting handled?

Evoker kills evoker and then gets autovested. Yet, if the evoker got an autovest, then the evoker didn't die. But that means the evoker didn't get an auto vest. Which means he should die. Help?

[FM Kagain]

My bet is that 36 is somehow possible though someway that i am unsure of. i remember i once saw a chess puzzle that said it was possible to place a certain amount of chess pieces where they wouldn't be attacking each other (i think it was something like 32 or something) but when you tried to do it you could only do a maximum of 31. The question became how does one make it 32? The answer: pawn promotion

Maybe it is something like this as well. Remember thief becomes jester with failure so it might be possible by that means.

[FM Nalia]

I should say, those puzzles are quite interesting. One single person would not be able to complete this puzzle, but with cooperation of everyone else, this becomes possible. Just look mow many times everyone failed at Satyr's Gate.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Ok. The vest is awarded in OoO one so my evokers don't live that long.

Change my assassins with three explorers (to ensure cultists don't need to get vest), then one of the three explorers targeted by the evoker dies.

Clarity

Assassins die by lunatic
Three explorers die by evokers, one has vest and gets mauled by fighters
Four explorers die by lunatic

Duke lives if lunatic kills 7. Duke dies if lunatic kills 8.

[FM Imoen]

If we cannot all agree on a solution in which we are confident within a few hours, I would prefer not to be sent for the puzzle, since I think I am more valuable alive than dead. In that case, we might consider sending someone who we distrust. Just something to consider milords.

[FM Kagain]

FM Imoen

[FM Imoen]

FM Imoen

...

A stray thought occurred to me. If the duke votes to banish the lunatic, the vote count will reach 21, which means the number of people the lunatic can slay will round up to 5. This can kill one of my the harpers in my example for 35 deaths. I'm not sure how to get to 36, but I'm sure there must be a way.

[FM Nalia]

Well Imoen, we can only believe in you. Good luck! And make sure to bring us the main puzzle clues on your first post! Don't hold then off like that Ajantis did.

FM Imoen

[FM Jaheira]

You guys are forgetting that both Kagain and myself have volunteered for the solution. Do you seriously want to risk Imoen, who has been Town from d1 with her LW idea and being correct on (almost) all the trains, when she herself said that she isn't confident in our current answer? I just know someone is gonna call this room a Cultist den if Imoen dies to the traps >_>

[FM Nalia]

How we can trust both of you? We are sending Imoen in exactly because we trust him, and he has confidence in this solution as well. Why you, whose alignment we don't know yet, should be volunteered for the solution instead?

[FM Shar-Teel]

...

A stray thought occurred to me. If the duke votes to banish the lunatic, the vote count will reach 21, which means the number of people the lunatic can slay will round up to 5. This can kill one of my the harpers in my example for 35 deaths. I'm not sure how to get to 36, but I'm sure there must be a way.

That is the exact reasoning that will get you killed. You cannot answer your way to reason. You reason your way to the answer.

FM Shar-Teel

[FM Shar-Teel]

You guys are forgetting that both Kagain and myself have volunteered for the solution. Do you seriously want to risk Imoen, who has been Town from d1 with her LW idea and being correct on (almost) all the trains, when she herself said that she isn't confident in our current answer? I just know someone is gonna call this room a Cultist den if Imoen dies to the traps >_>

I'd rather have you go, as you seem not to be reasoning the way Imoen is. However, the group (as a whole) doesn't trust you. It does nag me though... why are you concerned about people thinking this is a cultist den?

[FM Montaron]

Final one for me;

-Propose Solution

1: C
2: D
3: A
4: C
5: D
6: C
7: -
8: C
9: D
10: A
11: D
12: B
13: B
14: B
15: D

I'll stick with Imoen as far as votes goes.
Anything else?

[FM Montaron]

Final one for me;

-Propose Solution

1: C
2: D
3: A
4: C
5: D
6: C
7: -
8: C
9: D
10: A
11: D
12: B
13: B
14: B
15: D

I'll stick with Imoen as far as votes goes.
Anything else?

[FM Shar-Teel]

You are sending Imoen, yet agreeing with me on 4. So yeah, big FoS on Montron.

[FM Montaron]

You are sending Imoen, yet agreeing with me on 4. So yeah, big FoS on Montron.

It's Montaron, you pleb.

And although I prefer your answer, there's an unanimous vote on Imoen right now. What can we do. People seem to agree with Imoen more than you, it seems.

[FM Xzar]

I'd personally prefer sending Cernd over Imoen if we think we got the right solution.

FM Cernd

[FM Shar-Teel]

It's not unanimous. Your reasoning is also pathetic. Everyone's committing the same fatal error, so I'll do it to is not exactly town thinking.