The Satyr's Gate: night 3

[Forum Mafia GM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmvzVbHqeKU&list=PL945B1759FCAC5517

After a long backtracking through the labyrinth, you finally make it to a dead end that doesn’t have you turn around to find another path. Before you stands a gate of stone with the image of a Satyr depicted on it. The gate is sealed however. And when Tiax touches it, the walls start to hum and the satyr’s eyes begin to glow. The gate “speaks” to you.

In blood it swum
when there was war.
Where there is some,
there oft is more.
On every croft
you find some grain.
In death aloft;
a higher plane.

Careful not to choose the wrong word for an answer, Tiax withdraws his hand from the gate. The light in the eyes goes out and the sound from the walls dies down.

"There might be more answers here," suggests Tiax.


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Reminder:
Each group must vote for a “volunteer” to test their solution. Note that someone can be forced to take this position against their will. Whoever gets the most votes will be charged with the task. In case of a tie, the volunteer will be randomised to break the tie.

Voting for a volunteer uses the same formatting as voting to lynch someone, with [ vote ] [ /vote ] tags around their name. A majority doesn’t lock the vote. The tally at the end of the night is used.

Solutions can be proposed by anyone, whether they’re chosen as volunteer or not. A solution is proposed in the puzzle chat using the following format:

-propose solution



Unfortunately for the explorers, all of these locations are heavily trapped. If a wrong answer is given by the volunteer, he has a 66% chance of being struck by a trap and die. Having no proposed solution counts as a wrong answer.

If he is correct though, he will be awarded with a clue in his night feedback PM and the puzzle location will be closed.

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Player List:
FM Valygar
FM Yoshimo
FM Tiax
FM Sarevok
FM Dynaheir
FM Xan
FM Alora
FM Mazzy
FM Jaheira
FM Garrick
FM Shar-Teel

[FM Yoshimo]

Grrrrrr.

[FM Mazzy]

I'll volunteer.

[FM Yoshimo]

I'll volunteer.

You must be a high value target for your team to protect you so.

[FM Dynaheir]

FUCK really I'm in this chat again??

-propose solution

Earth

[FM Mazzy]

You must be a high value target for your team to protect you so.

So i lied about being the diviner big deal. I needed to buy time, at the rate things are going there is no way I'll be able to buy enough.

[FM Mazzy]

-Propose Solution


Star

[FM Mazzy]

-Propose Solution


Star

[FM Sarevok]

Am I really in this chat? What can I do to help with this puzzle >.<

[FM Yoshimo]

I have been here every night since the start, and at this point I'm feeling very defeated by this puzzle.

Shar-teel thinks it's SPEAR.
The cult scum thinks it's EARTH.

We tried FAITH last night.

[FM Yoshimo]

The cult scum thinks it's EARTH.

Mazzy was suggesting EARTH during day. I am not calling Dynaheir cult scum.

[FM Jaheira]

Ah, the infamous Satyr Gate puzzle. We meet at last. I'm so very tempted to send Mazzy, but if it's correct then we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by doing so. FM Jaheira I volunteer as tribute! (Sorry, had to put that in there.)

In all seriousness though, I will gladly submit whatever answer the group deems most correct, as I refuse to allow Mazzy the chance to delay the reveal of a clue. She's harmed us far too much to allow that.

[FM Yoshimo]

Ah, the infamous Satyr Gate puzzle. We meet at last. I'm so very tempted to send Mazzy, but if it's correct then we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot by doing so. FM Jaheira I volunteer as tribute! (Sorry, had to put that in there.)

In all seriousness though, I will gladly submit whatever answer the group deems most correct, as I refuse to allow Mazzy the chance to delay the reveal of a clue. She's harmed us far too much to allow that.

Pending a stroke of genius, in all likelihood the volunteer will die.

[FM Mazzy]

I have faith I can triumph this puzzle.

[FM Jaheira]

Pending a stroke of genius, in all likelihood the volunteer will die.

I am well aware of this, but thank you for pointing it out. A good number of my Town reads are in this chat, as well as a number of good puzzle solvers. I'm confident that either we will find the right solution, or I will die protecting other more important PR roles than I from death, and also prevent the possibility of a non-Town getting the clue and changing it around to screw us over.

@Mazzy: Shush. Nobody wants, nor will listen to your opinion. You've already proven your capacity for lies and deceit; we have no reason to believe a word you say

[FM Yoshimo]

I have faith I can triumph this puzzle.

Not with solutions like STAR.

[FM Jaheira]

It's obvious Mazzy is trying to deter us from sending her to solve the puzzle as she knows the result will likely be death. I'm praying we have a Mason Leader or Vigilante or SOMETHING that will kill her tonight, since, as I previously stated, I do not want to risk her getting the clue we've waited for over.. What? 5 days for?

[FM Mazzy]

@Jaheira I know you don't believe me anymore, tis the consequence of my actions, but that doesn't stop me from offering to solve the riddle.

Sending Me: Best case scenario for you, I die and you rejoice. Worst case scenario, I succeed you lynch me and use a coroner to get the clue anyways.

Sending You: Best case scenario for you, you succeed and you rejoice. Worst case scenario for you, you fail and lose another member.

Just like it was safer to lynch Viconia than it was lynch to me. I certainly believe it is safer for you to send me.

[FM Mazzy]

Not with solutions like STAR.

I think you are probably right about that, I put that up there for kicks and giggles. It is in my best interest for you to not know my answer to the riddle until right up until the end of the day. It may very well alter your decision.

[FM Jaheira]

But see, with your way, we have to out a PR role, the Mortician, which I'm sure your Cult would absolutely love. My way, the Town will get the clue without outing someone for your Cult to convert or kill, and you still die. See? Still trying to deceive us into thinking what you want to help the remaining Cult members. Not. Going. To. Happen. I suggest ignoring Mazzy and working on the clue. I also request that more people vote me, as my self-vote will only be considered in the event of a tie.

[FM Mazzy]

FM Mazzy

[FM Mazzy]

But see, with your way, we have to out a PR role, the Mortician, which I'm sure your Cult would absolutely love. My way, the Town will get the clue without outing someone for your Cult to convert or kill, and you still die. See? Still trying to deceive us into thinking what you want to help the remaining Cult members. Not. Going. To. Happen. I suggest ignoring Mazzy and working on the clue. I also request that more people vote me, as my self-vote will only be considered in the event of a tie.

So you believe I have the answer to the riddle then? I'm glad someone believes in my intelligence.

[FM Yoshimo]

So you believe I have the answer to the riddle then? I'm glad someone believes in my intelligence.

You think yourself a master-manipulator, but the people you fooled do not reside in this chat.

Keep it up big boy.

[FM Jaheira]

Not even worth a reply.

So far we have a few possible answers:

Earth, Spear. (I think I'm missing a few).

Tried solutions:

Faith, Life

On n1, for this kind of puzzle, it was stated that any word that held the spirit of the intended word would be considered correct, so anything similar to or a synonym of Life or Faith is going to be incorrect. Is this true? (Just to be 100% sure. We can't afford any mistakes here cause I'm too pretty to die we've worked on this for far too long to get it wrong again)

[FM Yoshimo]

On n1, for this kind of puzzle, it was stated that any word that held the spirit of the intended word would be considered correct, so anything similar to or a synonym of Life or Faith is going to be incorrect. Is this true? (Just to be 100% sure. We can't afford any mistakes here cause I'm too pretty to die we've worked on this for far too long to get it wrong again)

I believe this is true, providing that one of the synonyms is not a superior fit.

[FM Ferengi]

On n1, for this kind of puzzle, it was stated that any word that held the spirit of the intended word would be considered correct, so anything similar to or a synonym of Life or Faith is going to be incorrect. Is this true?
Yes.

[FM Mazzy]

Just pointing out logic from your point of view, there are 2 possibilities for you, and there are 2 possibilities for me.




You believe you have the Right Answer
You believe you have the Wrong Answer


You believe I have the Right Answer
Send your own
Debatable


You believe I have the Wrong Answer
Send your own
Send me



It's up to you to evaluate the options, I am just trying to help you may an informed decision.

[FM Yoshimo]

Just pointing out logic from your point of view, there are 2 possibilities for you, and there are 2 possibilities for me.




You believe you have the Right Answer
You believe you have the Wrong Answer


You believe I have the Right Answer
Send your own
Debatable


You believe I have the Wrong Answer
Send your own
Send me



It's up to you to evaluate the options, I am just trying to help you may an informed decision.

You don't have the correct answer.

[FM Mazzy]

You don't have the correct answer.

And what about you? You have of course 2 days to come up with it, but if you don't figure it out, I am here.

[FM Yoshimo]

And what about you? You have of course 2 days to come up with it, but if you don't figure it out, I am here.

How many Cult are there?

[FM Mazzy]

How many Cult are there?

I honestly have no idea.

[FM Yoshimo]

I honestly have no idea.

What is your true role?

[FM Mazzy]

What is your true role?

I will not answer that question.

[FM Yoshimo]

I will not answer that question.

What is a word that is 7 letters long, describing a person who speaks by divine inspiration?

[FM Mazzy]

Prophet

[FM Yoshimo]

Who is the most interesting player in the game?

Who is the most pro-town player?

Who is the scummiest player?

[FM Mazzy]

Who is the most interesting player in the game?

I am!

Who is the most pro-town player?

Haer Daelis.

Who is the scummiest player?

FM Cernd



Answers inline.

[FM Yoshimo]

Rank every player in the game from Most Pro-town to Scummiest.

[FM Mazzy]

Rank every player in the game from Most Pro-town to Scummiest.

That could take a while.

[FM Shar-Teel]

-propose solution

Spear

FM Jaheira

I was in the same position you were in regarding who to send. I am glad you volunteered. There are far too many town reads in here for me too. I don't trust Mazzy. I am submitting my guess for the main puzzle tonight. Everyone should try to guess if not acting at night.

Since V flipped, explorer, that means her clue was likely honest and that Mazzy's scum. Yet, why does Safana's clue contradict V's clue? Given it was night 2, I doubt Safana had any method of copying V's clue. Nothing I have seen indicate Safana is scummy beyond this. Maybe the answer is the whole ritual without contradictions?

As for the main riddle at hand, Jaheira propose something please. I would recommend spear. There may be a way to protect you but it is risky and requires one of us to be in the lovers chat. Before I even try to pursue it, is anyone here a lover? If so, please get the names of those in the other players lovers chat.

[FM Mazzy]

Wouldn't it be better to explain before inquiring?

[FM Jaheira]

I have received no notification of being paired with anyone.

- propose solution

Earth

I personally feel this to be most likely correct, but I most definitely will swap if enough compelling evidence is supplied for another answer. I have a feeling I know your idea, Shar, and I doubt it will work, even if we have a lover. Does it have to do with our first puzzle chat together?

[FM Dynaheir]

FM Mazzy

Honestly I don't think we'll get the answer tonight. Mazzy dying tonight will be a huge asset to town, because we won't spend the whole day talking about what a scum Mazzy obviously is. Let's just get her to die and them move on so we can talk about more worthwhile things come Daytime.

[FM Jaheira]

I agree Mazzy dying tonight would be amazing but the fact is simply that we've had 2 nights to solve this, eliminating life, faith and all their synonyms/similar words. We have a huge advantage over the two other groups through this alone, add to that that we have strong puzzle solvers, as well as many town reads in this chat, and I am quite certain that the third time's the charm.

Plus if we get it right, Mazzy would never give it to us, forcing us to reveal a mortician to get the clue.

[FM Mazzy]

I won't deny I would not reveal the clue.

[FM Jaheira]

Guys, I just noticed that in the rp Tiax says "there may be more answers here" can someone check the opening post for invisible ink or other possible clues put there to help us? I'm on my tablet so it's hard :/

[FM Shar-Teel]

That. I am certain we have to keep trying. We have to trust a vig or ml to do their job. If Mazzy lives, we know there was no ml or vig. So scum cannot hide behind those claims.

We cannot roll over and play dead on this puzzle. I will try to come up with more answers. Oxygen came to mind but that seems stupid.

I am on my tablet tonight. I will check in the morning.

[FM Dynaheir]

Shar-Teel I just want to thank you for not being an I-told-you-so jerk.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Did y'all notice the long response to my question about linking to spears at the end of the day?



Too tired.

You are welcome. You are being kinda wierd on the buddying but I told you so does nothing productive. You came out of lurkeritis to produce and it's not like I thought V was all that innocent. I take bigger issue with Faldorn.

[FM Valygar]

Heyyyyyyy this puzzle again... I don't think it's Earth or Spear. That being said, the lack of options might make me support 'Earth'.

At long last, Mazzy will be out of our hair. However, I think we need to keep trying to solve the puzzle: if we send Mazzy to die, we've wasted yet another night on merely the 66% chance that the traps get her.

[FM Tiax]

1) FM Viconia's flip is one of the few times I've ever been truly shocked by a flip. I couldn't see how Viconia could be telling the truth without Safana lying about her clue as well as Mazzy seeing how their clues seemed to contradict.

2) I would rather try and solve the puzzle and only send Mazzy if we can't find any good answers at all.

3) I knew it would be this puzzle...

[FM Yoshimo]

Let us think on the situation presented us:

It is currently Night 3.

If we don't open the Inner Sanctum by the end of Night 6 it will auto-open.

Every night the Sanctum remains closed is another night the Cult can convert. However, the Cult started with 5 members and can achieve a maximum of 9 members. It is most likely that the Cult have 7 members currently, and will have 8 by Day-break tomorrow morning.

With the few clues we have currently we will almost certainly be unable to solve the main puzzle tomorrow. This means Cult will be free to convert tomorrow night. So at the end of Night 4, it is extremely likely that Cult will have reached 9 members which is their cap. At this point they are also unable to kill because the Inner Sanctum remains closed. From the Town perspective, the situation is then stable. We can't be converted and we can't be attacked by the Cult. Regardless of whether we solve the puzzles or not, things won't get any worse.

Thus, I put this to you: If we can't solve the main puzzle and open the Inner Sanctum tomorrow then there is nothing to gain from attempting to solve these puzzles.

That is the crux of this situation.

With that point in mind, there is 0 reason to send Townies into the Satyr's Gate on the small chance we get lucky with an ill-fitting clue. The risk vastly out-weighs any potential reward.

The natural follow-on would be to make use of the Puzzle chat as a Night lynch. It is important to keep in mind though that lynching a Cultist opens a vacancy in the Cult ranks and permits the Prophet to convert another Townie/Baalspawn/Harper. Given that it is not 100% certainty a Townie will be converted, this situation is still favourable.
The Satyr's Gate has defied our collective brains. We have almost nothing to gain from opening it. We should stop trying to solve it. We should use it as a night lynch. We should send Mazzy into its depths without the support of our wisdom.

The only issue I foresee is that I have a sneaking suspicion Mazzy is the Prophet and immune to death. That is why the Cult went to all lengths to save him during Day and why he does not fear being sent to solve the riddle. But it doesn't even matter. Because we have absolutely nothing to lose by sending Mazzy at this gate. Trust me: He has no idea what the riddle's answer is.

We should advise other Gates to do the same from tomorrow on.

[FM Yoshimo]

FM Mazzy

[FM Jaheira]

Is the Thief the only role immune to death by puzzle traps? Or can the Prophet/Bhaalspawns die to them?

If the answer is no, then the idea of using the puzzle as a lynch falls apart due to the fact that we'd only want to kill 3 roles (Prophet and 2 Bhaalspawn). We'd have to kill several cult at once to make killing any of them worth it, else like you said they'd simply refill their ranks. So we're going to have to solve the puzzles anyway, since we're not allowed to send no one. Would love to elaborate more but I need to leave for approximately 3 hours

[FM Ferengi]

Is the Thief the only role immune to death by puzzle traps? Or can the Prophet/Bhaalspawns die to them?
Any night immunities/vests can save a player from puzzle traps. The Prophet and Bhaalspawn are immune

[FM Yoshimo]

Is the Thief the only role immune to death by puzzle traps? Or can the Prophet/Bhaalspawns die to them?

If the answer is no, then the idea of using the puzzle as a lynch falls apart due to the fact that we'd only want to kill 3 roles (Prophet and 2 Bhaalspawn). We'd have to kill several cult at once to make killing any of them worth it, else like you said they'd simply refill their ranks. So we're going to have to solve the puzzles anyway, since we're not allowed to send no one. Would love to elaborate more but I need to leave for approximately 3 hours

This is exactly my point. If we solve the riddles and are almost 100% sure we have a correct solution then sure we can send a volunteer with the answer, but when there's considerable doubt as there is here, why risk valuable Town lives? Even if a scum survives us sending him at the gate, at least we aren't risking townies. At the end of the day, there's very little to gain from getting the riddles anymore.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Jaheira, saving you would require attempting sending a message through the lover's chat to reminisce about night 1 just tell the other group that we are sending you and could use a godly miracle. No more. If the intended target cannot figure it out, so be it. Who knows, if they had an easy puzzle maybe the lovers chat can be a conduit?

Yoshimo, I understand that response but with cult immune roles and bhaalspawn that can kill the prophet, I would rather not give up on the clue. If they covert a neutral killer, the max cult is 8 upon opening of the sanctum. Then, to get to 8, the cult needs 3 more conversions in 5 nights. That's not a likely scenario given 2 harpers, a likely cleric, 2 bhaalspawn, plus any possible bounty hunter, the prophet will likely fail. That supposes nothing at all messes with his target.

I am not playing supposing defeat.

[FM Shar-Teel]

However, if we do get Mazzy and she is an assassin, the worst result for the town is the equivalent to a failed conversion. Mazzy dies and cult replaces. Cult has however many they started with. Supposing you are right yoshimo, we have 6 or 7 cult, 3 bhaalspawn, 4 neutrals unaccounted for that's damn near half the group. Shit, I now see why Mazzy is so hard to lynch. Let's send her.

FM Mazzy

[FM Yoshimo]

Jaheira, saving you would require attempting sending a message through the lover's chat to reminisce about night 1 just tell the other group that we are sending you and could use a godly miracle. No more. If the intended target cannot figure it out, so be it. Who knows, if they had an easy puzzle maybe the lovers chat can be a conduit?

Yoshimo, I understand that response but with cult immune roles and bhaalspawn that can kill the prophet, I would rather not give up on the clue. If they covert a neutral killer, the max cult is 8 upon opening of the sanctum. Then, to get to 8, the cult needs 3 more conversions in 5 nights. That's not a likely scenario given 2 harpers, a likely cleric, 2 bhaalspawn, plus any possible bounty hunter, the prophet will likely fail. That supposes nothing at all messes with his target.

I am not playing supposing defeat.

You know what they say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

The only roles immune to culting are the 2 harpers, one of which is probably Alora and unlikely to be targetted anyway. The Cleric/Doc is immune also, but there's already one cleric KIA and not necessarily anymore in the role-list. The odds strongly support the Prophet continuing to convert without incident. It's possible a PR could intervene but we've had no indication of that.


Supposing you are right yoshimo, we have 6 or 7 cult, 3 bhaalspawn, 4 neutrals unaccounted for that's damn near half the group. Shit, I now see why Mazzy is so hard to lynch. Let's send her.

This is exactly the reason why I feel like we shouldn't be risking townies in the gates.

As an aside, Shar-Teel, are you trying to conceal, or are you being intentionally obvious about your secret?

[FM Yoshimo]

I only say it so you're aware I/others have noticed it.

[FM Shar-Teel]

If I expected something to be a secret, I wouldn't be obvious about it. I try to hide a secret from those who I believe might not notice it. I will not insult the intelligence of those who have figured it out though.

[FM Jaheira]

I see your point Yoshimo. Ultimately, no matter what we do, we should try and solve this puzzle. I'm very much disappointed that so far only 4 of us have been anywhere near active in this chat :/ The answer does seem to be requiring something with a double-meaning, but what I'm not quite sure about yet.

[FM Shar-Teel]

How about this, if we come up with a solution everyone likes, we send Jahiera. If we cannot solve the puzzle, we send Mazzy. To that end, we might as well TRY to solve the puzzle. If we fail, we'll have at least sent someone very scummy to the puzzle trap.

[FM Shar-Teel]

As for the main puzzle, I cannot see Safana faking her clue. It just seems too much of a coincidence/lucky guess. Yet, that means we have two riddles for the Ritual of Destruction. I doubt people can wear two amulets as it is forbidden in the Baldur's Gate series.

That suggests to me that the Ritual of Destruction CANNOT be done. We might be looking for the only thing that can possibly be done. Therefore, it is vital we have all the right clues.

[FM Jaheira]

I think that could very well be it. The clues present and eliminate rituals until only one ritual remains, (kind of like the "Which one's different?" game for kids) and then we perform that ritual to open the sanctum. I'm really happy Imoen isn't in this night chat. I pity whichever one got her, especially if Faldorn is there too. I can only imagine how much rage she's putting out.

[FM Dynaheir]

Gotta say, those clues were well-faked Mazzy. Elanee was a really nice touch. Sorry though, you gots to die now.

[FM Valygar]

Can we have a hint?

I've been exposed to this puzzle for 9 IRL days and I feel no closer to solving it than before. Maybe, if the hosts have a safeguard for us not being able to solve the main puzzle within a reasonable time, they would also be willing to render assistance here...

[FM Mazzy]

For the record, I'm probably more confused about Viconia's flip than the rest of you, as for my faked clues i thought I did a good job too, but my haste caused 2 mistakes fortunately I wasn't buried for them.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I think that could very well be it. The clues present and eliminate rituals until only one ritual remains, (kind of like the "Which one's different?" game for kids) and then we perform that ritual to open the sanctum. I'm really happy Imoen isn't in this night chat. I pity whichever one got her, especially if Faldorn is there too. I can only imagine how much rage she's putting out.

Still, I'd like verification of Safana's clue to know I'm right. V was almost certainly telling the truth or the hosts committed host's error. I imagine she would have double checked her clue.

Imoen v Faldorn might result in Feldorn being sacrificed if they don't know their clue. I hope they are not in the puzzle chat together.

[FM Valygar]

I think Mazzy deserves an achievement for escaping a lynch 3 days in a row.

Now, I am turning my attention to Mazzy's biggest suplorters. Yeslick actually voted Mazzy at first, but quickly switched to Viconia so he's still on my list. Other names that come to mind are Anomen and Faldorn.

[FM Xan]

Bloody hell this place again

propose solution
Hate

War doesn't happen without it
Hate breeds more hate
Hate is literally everywhere
Even the gods hate (this is interpreting higher plane being the DnD gods and not anything Judeo christian)

[FM Shar-Teel]

Hate could be the answer. I don't like it for the third part but that's barely. I suppose the third set could be an idiom meaning that it is everywhere. I could vote for Jahiera going for that answer but I don't want to let Mazzy go though because I'm not certain we have the right answer.

[FM Ferengi]

Can we have a hint?

Hints aren't necessary.

[FM Garrick]

FM Garrick is here! FM Garrick is mind blown that FM Viconia was an Explorer. FM Garrick had previously believed it to be impossible. Due to replacement mechanics, FM Garrick assumed that only PRs who skipped night actions would get replaced that early in the game mostly due to the original FM Garrick being afk for two days and nights without any form of replacement. FM Garrick will rely less on order of replacement to find PRs in the future since this information is obviously not very valid.

FM Garrick would like to propose "Legend" which someone mentioned during the Day. FM Garrick is so confident in "Legend" that FM Garrick would volunteer to test the solution.

-propose

Legend

-volunteer FM Garrick

[FM Shar-Teel]

This site REALLY needs a facepalm emoticon.

On a side note, Garrick you must use the green color to propose a solution along with the quote. [color=00ff00 * ]-propose solution[/ * color]

Take out the spaces and * s

[FM Dynaheir]

FM Garrick is here! FM Garrick is mind blown that FM Viconia was an Explorer. FM Garrick had previously believed it to be impossible. Due to replacement mechanics, FM Garrick assumed that only PRs who skipped night actions would get replaced that early in the game mostly due to the original FM Garrick being afk for two days and nights without any form of replacement. FM Garrick will rely less on order of replacement to find PRs in the future since this information is obviously not very valid.

FM Garrick would like to propose "Legend" which someone mentioned during the Day. FM Garrick is so confident in "Legend" that FM Garrick would volunteer to test the solution.

-propose


-volunteer FM Garrick

The rules for replacement were pretty clearly laid out somewhere on this site, probably not setup but maybe FAQ: 2 game days activity, regardless of night behavior. You should have known that as a reserve.

[FM Dynaheir]

The rules for replacement were pretty clearly laid out somewhere on this site, probably not setup but maybe FAQ: 2 game days without activity, regardless of night behavior. You should have known that as a reserve.

accidentally a word

[FM Garrick]

FM Shar-Teel, why are you facepalming at FM Garrick?

-propose solution

Legend

[FM Shar-Teel]

To explain would make myself worthy of a facepalm and I pray I'm the only one that noticed.

[FM Garrick]

FM Dynaheir if that was true then how did FM Mazzy and FM Viconia get replaced so early into the game?

[FM Garrick]

FM Shar-Teel, fear naught. For everything FM Garrick says is said for a reason.
Everything.

[FM Mazzy]

FM Dynaheir if that was true then how did FM Mazzy and FM Viconia get replaced so early into the game?

I already said my previous account owner requested replacement.

[FM Dynaheir]

FM Dynaheir if that was true then how did FM Mazzy and FM Viconia get replaced so early into the game?

Because they asked to be replaced. Mazzy and Viconia were more active than pre-replacement Garrick, Dynaheir, Kagain, Eldoth, and more.

[FM Garrick]

I already said my previous account owner requested replacement.

Who is more likely to ask for a replacement? A scum/PR who finds he/she does not have the adequate time to devote to the game or an Explorer who thinks he/she can get by with the minimal daily contribution?

This is why FM Garrick was so sure FM Viconia would not be an Explorer.

[FM Dynaheir]

Who is more likely to ask for a replacement? A scum/PR who finds he/she does not have the adequate time to devote to the game or an Explorer who thinks he/she can get by with the minimal daily contribution?

This is why FM Garrick was so sure FM Viconia would not be an Explorer.

That's not the same reason you cited earlier. It's similar but there are differences. I am starting to mistrust you Garrick.

[FM Shar-Teel]

FM Shar-Teel, fear naught. For everything FM Garrick says is said for a reason.
Everything.

That sounds very like a com of someone we know... are you trying to fake your com but forgetting that third person talk is very annoying?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Note: I do not intend the above as COM hunting. I intend it to call out a player whose playstyle is artifical.

[FM Garrick]

That sounds very like a com of someone we know... are you trying to fake your com but forgetting that third person talk is very annoying?

This is FM Garrick's first FM. If FM Garrick sounds like FM Garrick is imitating somebody it is purely coincidence. FM Garrick is not faking anything.

[FM Shar-Teel]

This is FM Garrick's first FM. If FM Garrick sounds like FM Garrick is imitating somebody it is purely coincidence. FM Garrick is not faking anything.

Drop the third person. Say I. It's VERY annoying to almost everyone here.

[FM Yoshimo]

How about this, if we come up with a solution everyone likes, we send Jahiera. If we cannot solve the puzzle, we send Mazzy. To that end, we might as well TRY to solve the puzzle. If we fail, we'll have at least sent someone very scummy to the puzzle trap.

This works for me, but if it's looking doubtful I don't want to risk Jaheira's life.

[FM Yoshimo]

2 interesting Day 3 posts from the illustrious FM Garrick:


FM Garrick will have serious questions for FM Bhaal and FM Cespenar if FM Viconia flips Explorer. If FM Mazzy the Beguiler fills the hidden mafia slot, FM Garrick sees no other way to have received his information on FM Viconia other than host error.

In any case it is way past FM Garrick's bedtime. Therefore FM Garrick will bid you all gn8.


FM Aerie has a good point in FM Garrick's opinion. The motivation for FM Viconia posting a clue that conflicts with FM Safana's clue would only make sense if FM Viconia is a Lunatic. Or, FM Safana is scum and FM Viconia is a town. FM Viconia would still have no reason to lie about being an explorer though.

/ / /


FM Garrick is here! FM Garrick is mind blown that FM Viconia was an Explorer. FM Garrick had previously believed it to be impossible. Due to replacement mechanics, FM Garrick assumed that only PRs who skipped night actions would get replaced that early in the game mostly due to the original FM Garrick being afk for two days and nights without any form of replacement. FM Garrick will rely less on order of replacement to find PRs in the future since this information is obviously not very valid.

FM Garrick would like to propose "Legend" which someone mentioned during the Day. FM Garrick is so confident in "Legend" that FM Garrick would volunteer to test the solution.

Did FM Garrick have his head beaten in by FM Korgan's helmet? Why did you just reveal you're an Explorer/Cit? Why are you hunting for PRs? What do you propose to do to the PRs when you find them? Kill them?

FM Garrick claims that this is his first forum mafia game, yet we can see him using the abbreviation "PRs" suggesting he's reasonably comfortable with the term. Perhaps he's played on other sites. It sounds like you regularly frequent another mafia site, Shar-Teel, do they use the abbreviation PR there?

I am not sure what to think about FM Garrick. He seems to have been genuinely fooled by his false conclusions about host/replacement meta, but you never know.

[FM Shar-Teel]

It's usually referred to as Town PRs or Scum PRs. You did notice the :facepalm: worthy part of his post. However, Garrick implies he's a PR rather than a Cit. He said he figured PRs would be replaced after Cits. So he assumed that Vic was a PR of some sort. The fact he makes this assumption publicly outs him as a PR. I did NOT want to explain this because of the anti-town nature of doing so. However, Yoshimo has already highlighted the offending passages.

PR is a near universal abbreviation. I wouldn't be surprised if Garrick is a scum PR rather than a town PR due to his annoying behaviors and reluctance to produce despite having a modicum of knowledge.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Garrick, how do Legends swim in blood?

[FM Mazzy]

Garrick, how do Legends swim in blood?

He would be smart to ignore that question.

[FM Shar-Teel]

He would be smart to ignore that question.

Do not even think coaching your scum buddy is going to help at this late hour.

[FM Xan]

This is FM Garrick's first FM. If FM Garrick sounds like FM Garrick is imitating somebody it is purely coincidence. FM Garrick is not faking anything.

If this was your first FM Xan would guess you also don't know Gerik well enough to steal his avatar...

[FM Mazzy]

Do not even think coaching your scum buddy is going to help at this late hour.

I think FM Garrick put it best.

FM Shar-Teel, fear naught. For everything FM Mazzy says is said for a reason.
Everything.

[FM Jaheira]

As I said previously, Mazzy should be ignored. It's so painfully obvious that she's layering WIFOM ontop of everything she does, it's pointless to even try to analyze her or her interactions. I very much dislike legend as the answer, as they do not swim in blood, they're passed by word of mouth from one person to another from generation to generation. For that reason alone I am very confident that it is NOT the answer, and I'm not entirely sure what Garrick is playing at with his not-so-soft PR claim.

[FM Yoshimo]

FM Garrick had previously believed it to be impossible. Due to replacement mechanics, FM Garrick assumed that only PRs who skipped night actions would get replaced that early in the game mostly due to the original FM Garrick being afk for two days and nights without any form of replacement. FM Garrick will rely less on order of replacement to find PRs in the future since this information is obviously not very valid.
You did notice the :facepalm: worthy part of his post. However, Garrick implies he's a PR rather than a Cit. He said he figured PRs would be replaced after Cits. So he assumed that Vic was a PR of some sort. The fact he makes this assumption publicly outs him as a PR. I did NOT want to explain this because of the anti-town nature of doing so. However, Yoshimo has already highlighted the offending passages. I'm confused. I see what you're saying, but to me it still looks ambiguous: Option 1. FM Garrick is a PR who performed his night actions before being replaced. Option 2. FM Garrick is not a PR. You've gone with Option 1 I think, but how did you determine FM Garrick didn't mean Option 2? I'd prefer to pursue these leads rather than try and cover them up. Chances are if you've spotted them that Mazzy or another scum in here has too.

[FM Xan]

Star and earth are bad solutions. Xan isn't 100% sure of hate, but can't think of anything better. Mazzy seems comfortable enough going into the puzzle that it may be a bad idea to send her. Xan gets the feeling that she's either immune, a thief, or a ghost who wants to kill town.

If someone volunteers himself, does his vote count?

[FM Xan]

Jaheira, what do you think of hate?

[FM Jaheira]

I like it for all but the last 2 lines

In death aloft
a higher plane

In death there is a higher level/in death on a higher level there is X. It could be referring to someone dying and X being there, or it could, since it's been a war/farming analogy thus far, mean literally a plane above another where this thing is. I'm not sure if the interpretation of gods having hate even in a higher plane is correct.

[FM Jaheira]

However, the idea of straying from the judeo-christian worldview is a good one, as Bhaal is the god of murder and this is his temple, so I heavily doubt that any of the riddles will use this worldview.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Xan, self-votes are tie breakers.

Can we add the part about self-votes being tiebreakers into the FAQ? It has been asked in every puzzle chat I have been in.

[FM Yoshimo]

Mazzy seems comfortable enough going into the puzzle that it may be a bad idea to send her. Xan gets the feeling that she's either immune, a thief, or a ghost who wants to kill town. Option 1. Immune: Not at all bad to send Mazzy. Finding an Immune Scum is a supreme win for us and we lose nothing. Option 2/3. Thief/Ghost: This doesn't explain why there was a legion of Cult doing everything and anything to protect her. If Mazzy was really a Ghost then she would have allowed herself to be lynched during Day, because the outcome would be exactly the same as some intricate plot to try and get herself killed in the puzzle. I don't follow your reasoning, Xan.

[FM Jaheira]

Well before we segue into that:

Does the Cult get to know the roles of their allies before gaining a night chat? Is the Prophet alerted when he recruits a Bhaalspawn? It's possible Mazzy is a Prophet who is trying to make us waste lynches, which would also explain her reasoning for trying to stay alive and cause as many mislynches as possible. She MUST be roleblocked tonight.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I'm confused. I see what you're saying, but to me it still looks ambiguous: Option 1. FM Garrick is a PR who performed his night actions before being replaced. Option 2. FM Garrick is not a PR. You've gone with Option 1 I think, but how did you determine FM Garrick didn't mean Option 2? I'd prefer to pursue these leads rather than try and cover them up. Chances are if you've spotted them that Mazzy or another scum in here has too.

I'm not seeing the ambiguity at all. The plain text seems clear to me. That's why I never considered option 2. I'm not even sure how you know the replaced version of Garrick performed his night action, given the total lack of feedback.

His assumption was that PRs are replaced first. Therefore, anyone replaced before him should be a PR. V was an explorer though which made no sense to him. Thus shattering his world view.

I can't see where Option 2 is plausible.

[FM Yoshimo]

Well before we segue into that:

Does the Cult get to know the roles of their allies before gaining a night chat? Is the Prophet alerted when he recruits a Bhaalspawn? It's possible Mazzy is a Prophet who is trying to make us waste lynches, which would also explain her reasoning for trying to stay alive and cause as many mislynches as possible. She MUST be roleblocked tonight.

This is what I've been suspecting too because it seems odd for Mazzy to receive such an extreme defense if she is a regular Cultist/other scum.

[FM Xan]

I like it for all but the last 2 lines

In death aloft
a higher plane

In death there is a higher level/in death on a higher level there is X. It could be referring to someone dying and X being there, or it could, since it's been a war/farming analogy thus far, mean literally a plane above another where this thing is. I'm not sure if the interpretation of gods having hate even in a higher plane is correct.

In the Baldur's Gate backstory, the gods live in a higher plane as Xan understands it. Xan knows there are violent gods. There may be a god of hate itself, or the hate could just be Bhall's--after all, murder does involve hate.

[FM Yoshimo]

I'm not seeing the ambiguity at all. The plain text seems clear to me. That's why I never considered option 2. I'm not even sure how you know the replaced version of Garrick performed his night action, given the total lack of feedback. His assumption was that PRs are replaced first. Therefore, anyone replaced before him should be a PR. V was an explorer though which made no sense to him. Thus shattering his world view. I can't see where Option 2 is plausible. To me, it reads: Garrick says the first to be replaced are PRs who skip night actions because his account waited several days to be replaced. Therefore all he is saying is he is not a PR who didn't use his night action. Leaving 2 options: PR who used his action, or non-PR.

[FM Shar-Teel]

This is an argument I do not feel should proceed. I feel you believe what you are saying. I believe what I am. Let's cloud Garrick's real role in WIFOM.

[FM Yoshimo]

This is an argument I do not feel should proceed. I feel you believe what you are saying. I believe what I am. Let's cloud Garrick's real role in WIFOM.

Indeed. Good plan.

In other news, here is the Player-list and activity log for this chat:

Player List:
FM Valygar
FM Yoshimo
FM Tiax
FM Sarevok*
FM Dynaheir
FM Xan
FM Alora
FM Mazzy
FM Jaheira
FM Garrick
FM Shar-Teel

FM Sarevok's only post @ start of Night 3:


Am I really in this chat? What can I do to help with this puzzle >.<

FM Tiax's only post:


1) FM Viconia's flip is one of the few times I've ever been truly shocked by a flip. I couldn't see how Viconia could be telling the truth without Safana lying about her clue as well as Mazzy seeing how their clues seemed to contradict.

2) I would rather try and solve the puzzle and only send Mazzy if we can't find any good answers at all.

3) I knew it would be this puzzle...

Sarevok and Tiax have each checked in with 1 post. Alora the ?Harper? has said nothing.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Yeah, I'm seriously not liking the herpalurk coming from them. Sarevok has a minor excuse given he was active earlier but not much of an excuse. Alora, I would suspect would be more active giving the Herald article FoSed her and said she should be lynched. Tiax has been lurking damn near the entire game. I saw his post and wondered... who?

[FM Yoshimo]

Yeah, I'm seriously not liking the herpalurk coming from them. Sarevok has a minor excuse given he was active earlier but not much of an excuse. Alora, I would suspect would be more active giving the Herald article FoSed her and said she should be lynched. Tiax has been lurking damn near the entire game. I saw his post and wondered... who?

I just find myself thinking that if Alora wasn't a Harper then she would probably be CCed on it. Also, as I recall the train that caused her to role-claim was led by the same people who vehemently defended Mazzy. I'm reasonably confident she is a Harper, and happy to accept her as one unless somebody counter-claims her.

The other thing that might be valuable for us to do is go through the Viconia lynch train and try and determine who was protecting Mazzy, and who was simply convinced that she was the Diviner.

[FM Mazzy]

Any input I can provide?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Any input I can provide?

List the players from scummiest to towniest please. Give reasons.

[FM Mazzy]

List the players from scummiest to towniest please. Give reasons.

That could take a while.

[FM Shar-Teel]

We have 24+ hours. If you are town, it will be useful. I highly doubt you'll do it, and your refusal/feet dragging indicates it. It will because you know it will be useful regardless of your role.

Ex

Mazzy - Fake Claimed Diviner.

[FM Mazzy]

We have 24+ hours. If you are town, it will be useful. I highly doubt you'll do it, and your refusal/feet dragging indicates it. It will because you know it will be useful regardless of your role.

Ex

Mazzy - Fake Claimed Diviner.

I confessed I am not town, lets leave it at that.

[FM Jaheira]

This looks like last night's chat when we sent Eldoth :/ No ideas guys?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Spear and Hate are the top candidates. Mazzy is going to submit Star and essentially self-puzzle trap fail.

[FM Shar-Teel]

I confessed I am not town, lets leave it at that.

I was using that as an example read. Since you are confessing you are not town, I guess we are not getting reads out of you at all.

[FM Tiax]

Thus, I put this to you: If we can't solve the main puzzle and open the Inner Sanctum tomorrow then there is nothing to gain from attempting to solve these puzzles.



not quite. Inner Sanctum automatically opens D7, making the last time to attempt to solve the puzzle N5, which makes the last night which clues are useful N4 which is tomorrow. therefore, we only gain nothing if we can't solve the puzzle 2 nights from now.

despite saying that I am weighing the possibility of attempting to using this puzzle as a night kill on Mazzy.

[FM Yoshimo]

Spear and Hate are the top candidates. Mazzy is going to submit Star and essentially self-puzzle trap fail.

He will probably change his proposal before the end.

But regardless of what he submits, I'm not convinced the trap will kill him :/

[FM Shar-Teel]

He will probably change his proposal before the end.

But regardless of what he submits, I'm not convinced the trap will kill him :/

Nor am I. If Mazzy doesn't die, then we're stuck with another day of trying to get her lynched. Ugh.

[FM Tiax]

Spear and Hate are the top candidates. Mazzy is going to submit Star and essentially self-puzzle trap fail.

star is a bad answer. however, have you considered the possibility that Mazzy is trying to bait you by giving an obviously incorrect answer as her first proposed solution? if she is indeed cult, then she has up to 6 other people helping with her answer as well as the current suggestions in the Puzzle Chat, so her chances of solving the puzzle may be higher then you seem to think.

[FM Yoshimo]

not quite. Inner Sanctum automatically opens D7, making the last time to attempt to solve the puzzle N5, which makes the last night which clues are useful N4 which is tomorrow. therefore, we only gain nothing if we can't solve the puzzle 2 nights from now.

despite saying that I am weighing the possibility of attempting to using this puzzle as a night kill on Mazzy.

It's explained in the rest of my post that unless the Inner Sanctum can be opened tomorrow, Cult will MAX out on recruits tomorrow night, making tomorrow the last Day to open the Inner Sanctum if we actually want to effect the course of the game at all by doing so.

This is the most likely scenario.

Though a vastly less likely, but still possible scenario is that they have been delayed somehow meaning we would have to do it by Day 5.

Either way, if you're into gambling/investment sending possible Townies armed with half-baked clues at the Gates is drastically -ve expected Return On Investment.

[FM Jaheira]

Why would she even want to solve it? If she were vulnerable to night kills, she would have just shut up and let me take the puzzle, which is a reason why I think she's night-kill immune. I think she would much rather die to the trap and force us to waste YET ANOTHER 48 hours on this puzzle rather than live and make us use a lynch on her tomorrow if she was vulnerable to death, since that ties us up from catching other scums.

The only reason I see here for her actions is her being Prophet, wanting to be sent with a wrong-but-seemingly-right answer to proc the trap, get no clue, be lynched tomorrow, survive, and have us have wasted all that time.

[FM Jaheira]

Sorry, that made no sense. My head is so not clear at the moment. Lemme see if I can rephrase that >_>

[FM Yoshimo]

Nor am I. If Mazzy doesn't die, then we're stuck with another day of trying to get her lynched. Ugh. This is one of the reasons I really want to send Mazzy at the Gate, because if she doesn't die it begs the question: How likely is it she is invulnerable to lynching too? And would we better trying to lynch one of her supporters instead, while suggesting an Escort try to block her?

[FM Jaheira]

If she were vulnerable to night kills, she would have just shut up and let me take the puzzle (which is a reason why I think she's night-kill immune.). If she were vulnerable and for some reason still wanted to be sent, then she probably thinks that it's worth more to make us waste another 48 hours on this puzzle than tie up our lynch tomorrow.

More likely than that though, is she DOES want to solve it, then she would solve it, hide the clue, make us lynch her, and then make us out our Mortician to retrieve the clue.

But imo, the MOST likely, is that she is the Prophet, and wants to be sent with a wrong-but-seemingly-right answer to proc the trap, get no clue, be lynched tomorrow, survive, and have us have wasted all that time, AND waste a Mortician's night checking her for clues.

That's what I had intended to write. My poor brain :/


Imo, Yoshimo, the best course of action is to leave her for when the Sanctum opens. If she's the Prophet, she won't die before then anyway. If she's a Cult, they can just recruit again to fill her spot. If she's Neutral, then it's fine to kill her, but that's a gamble.

[FM Yoshimo]

star is a bad answer. however, have you considered the possibility that Mazzy is trying to bait you by giving an obviously incorrect answer as her first proposed solution? if she is indeed cult, then she has up to 6 other people helping with her answer as well as the current suggestions in the Puzzle Chat, so her chances of solving the puzzle may be higher then you seem to think.

Cult (Mafia) and Harpers (Masons) don't have night chats until the Inner Sanctum is opened. Mazzy has nobody except us helping her to solve the riddle.

Personally, I don't believe that Mazzy has anymore idea than the rest of us how to solve the Satyr's gate riddle, but even if she did solve it and get the answer, as per my giant coloured post earlier; I don't think it would really change anything for us.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Jahiera, the RP indicates when a person fails and survives. I had that with Xan in the previous night chat. If Mazzy fails, we won't need to use a mortician on her. If Mazzy succeeds, she won't die and we try to lynch her for the clue.

It would be a total bitch if she was the Prophet and got it right, but I don't think that's happening.


Any suggestions as to what the final puzzle could be?

[FM Yoshimo]

Imo, Yoshimo, the best course of action is to leave her for when the Sanctum opens. If she's the Prophet, she won't die before then anyway. If she's a Cult, they can just recruit again to fill her spot. If she's Neutral, then it's fine to kill her, but that's a gamble. I agree. I think the Satyr's Gate should be our test of invulnerability. If she dies tonight, great. If she doesn't then I'll be extremely suspicious we're dealing with the Prophet.

[FM Jaheira]

It would be a total bitch if she was the Prophet and got it right, but I don't think that's happening.

That's what I meant lol. I spent the day snorkelling in really rough waters, so I'm exhausted physically and mentally :/

Really, we shouldn't even be discussing this. If we aren't confident in the answer, we send Mazzy. If we are, we send me. Same as it's always been. We have like, 18 hours left to try and solve this. Let's get crackin', cause it looks like we got a boat-load of lurkers in here with us.

[FM Valygar]

I don't think we should be using this to kill Mazzy. If she is the Prophet, I don't think she'd be trying to be killed so bad (because WIFOM). Let's say she fails the puzzle but survives (1/3 chance): if we just assume she's the prophet, we won't be lynching her AGAIN for the 4th day in a row. I'd rather put an honest effort in tonight and get Mazzy today: if we are still wrong, we can discuss using this as another lynch tomorrow. Also, if Mazzy ISN'T the prophet and dies, then the cult can't max until day 6 (assuming there were no failed conversions).

If Jaheira doesn't want to, I am also willing to volunteer.

[FM Valygar]

That's what I meant lol. I spent the day snorkelling in really rough waters, so I'm exhausted physically and mentally :/

Really, we shouldn't even be discussing this. If we aren't confident in the answer, we send Mazzy. If we are, we send me. Same as it's always been. We have like, 18 hours left to try and solve this. Let's get crackin', cause it looks like we got a boat-load of lurkers in here with us.

Will be more active tonight: I'm on the Amtrak home at the moment.

[FM Sarevok]

Indeed. Good plan.

In other news, here is the Player-list and activity log for this chat:

Player List:
FM Valygar
FM Yoshimo
FM Tiax
FM Sarevok*
FM Dynaheir
FM Xan
FM Alora
FM Mazzy
FM Jaheira
FM Garrick
FM Shar-Teel

FM Sarevok's only post @ start of Night 3:



FM Tiax's only post:



Sarevok and Tiax have each checked in with 1 post. Alora the ?Harper? has said nothing.
I have to confess, I saw that I was in this chat and just left. I really didn't have anything to add in regards to the puzzle.

But now I'm going to guess that Mazzy is an important cult role due to her stating that she needed to buy time. I assume a role that has a cooldown, like a Quartermaster. If so, then Mazzy is the number one target. Which isn't saying a whole lot :P

[FM Jaheira]

Also, I suggest watching the Mazzy defenders. Chances are they will suddenly start being really helpful on ce cult hits max, since at that stage they will want the thief to solve the puzzle so they can get their 3 kills.

Good to see you Valygar. Thoughts on the puzzle?

Checking OoO to see what cult roles act before dying.

[FM Jaheira]

The one that troubles me most is the beguiler. If we send her and she's beguiler, she can essentially use it as a night kill. Even more reason not to send her

[FM Valygar]

Of the existing options, I support Earth the most. I had considered 'inheritance' as an answer (inheritance follows the bloodline when the giver dies, a croft/farmland is something you might inherit, and the Judeo-Christian worldview uses the phrase "inheriting the kingdom of heaven"). However, I could not reconcile lines 3 and 4. I may yet again take a look at 'hardship' and 'sacrifice', 2 answers I refuse to give up on.

[FM Valygar]

I'm pretty sure the beguiler only redirects night actions and cannot redirect a puzzle trap kill. Nevertheless, I don't support sending Mazzy.

[FM Jaheira]

The setup says beguiler can redirect puzzle kills, but that it would look scummy. Mazzy has nothing to lose by looking scummy.

Can a beguiler redirect a roleblock?

[FM Mazzy]

I'm pretty sure the beguiler only redirects night actions and cannot redirect a puzzle trap kill. Nevertheless, I don't support sending Mazzy.


The setup says beguiler can redirect puzzle kills, but that it would look scummy. Mazzy has nothing to lose by looking scummy.

Can a beguiler redirect a roleblock?

I'll answer both those questions as they are defined in the OoO and FAQ, yes the beguiler can redirect puzzle kills, and no the beguiler cannot redirect a role-block.

[FM Sarevok]

I'm not going to post about the puzzle, because really I suck as solving puzzles.
Why do I have a star, Yoshimo?

We are not doing well at all. We are sitting here, pushing against the same 3 people, circling around how those three are scummy. Nothing gets done.

Step 1 - Mazzy must die.
We figure out if Mazzy is the Prophet/Bhaalspawns, or if we got a killable scum. I am ashamed that Mazzy is still alive, and I let myself believe those who said Viconia was not town. There was no evidence for it, except the second scummiest player making up some feedback.

Step 2 - We need reads.
Everyone needs to build some reads of everyone. They don't have to be a long passage. Even a color coded chart of alive players would help. This will allow us to pick some other targets once Mazzy is dead. This is what I'm going to be working on. If we as a town are going to lynch the scum, we need to not be a group of sheep listening to 3 or 4 players argue among themselves of which scummy player is the scummiest.

Step 3 - We need to be able to discuss more than a few players at a time.
This is a problem that the resent FMs are having... we are focusing our discussion on just a few people a day. While we can discuss scummy players, our entire day chat should not be filled of "Mazzy VS Viconia" or "Mazzy vs Adhom" etc. Lets expand our discussion to a lot more players, while maintaining direct pressure and our votes on the scummiest players. This will stop the scums from hiding in day chat by just repeating what others say.

Follow these three steps and I'm sure we can win the game.

[FM Yoshimo]

I'm pretty sure the beguiler only redirects night actions and cannot redirect a puzzle trap kill. Nevertheless, I don't support sending Mazzy.

So you're willing to roll the dice and accept a 66% of chance of dying if you don't submit the correct answer, knowing that 2 volunteers have failed already and the collective mass of the entire town has been unable to come up with a solution anybody can agree upon?

I'm not making fun of you, it just sounds like a death-wish to me. I would literally be terrified of volunteering for the Satyr's gate.

[FM Mazzy]

So you're willing to roll the dice and accept a 66% of chance of dying if you don't submit the correct answer, knowing that 2 volunteers have failed already and the collective mass of the entire town has been unable to come up with a solution anybody can agree upon?

I'm not making fun of you, it just sounds like a death-wish to me. I would literally be terrified of volunteering for the Satyr's gate.

Idk the gargoyles gate seems scarier, but that's just me I suppose.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Ugh. Great. I believe Aerie when she says Mazzy is an assassin, but beguiler redirecting a puzzle kill would be powerful. Even if Mazzy does do this, we get a second likely scum in Aerie, so I am down with risking Mazzy changing the kill as it would confirm another cultist.

[FM Yoshimo]

I'm not going to post about the puzzle, because really I suck as solving puzzles.
Why do I have a star, Yoshimo?

To indicate that your only post could be found quoted below. I meant to give Tiax one too but forgot.

[FM Yoshimo]

Ugh. Great. I believe Aerie when she says Mazzy is an assassin, but beguiler redirecting a puzzle kill would be powerful. Even if Mazzy does do this, we get a second likely scum in Aerie, so I am down with risking Mazzy changing the kill as it would confirm another cultist.

@Mazzy, if you were the Beguiler, which one of us would you kill?

[FM Mazzy]

@Mazzy, if you were the Beguiler, which one of us would you kill?

I would kill aerie.

[FM Mazzy]

Strike that I meant alora.

[FM Sarevok]

Ugh. Great. I believe Aerie when she says Mazzy is an assassin, but beguiler redirecting a puzzle kill would be powerful. Even if Mazzy does do this, we get a second likely scum in Aerie, so I am down with risking Mazzy changing the kill as it would confirm another cultist.

I'm going to ask how Aerie would be scum if Mazzy was beguiler.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Mazzy, you'd kill a lurker? Yeah, that's bullshit. Mazzy never likely thought about the answer to that.

As for Aerie being scum if Mazzy flips Beguiler is because Aerie said Mazzy was an assassin. Aerie either has inside information on Mazzy's role or lied to lull us into a false sense of security. I do not see what Aerie has to gain by lying as town.

[FM Sarevok]

As for Aerie being scum if Mazzy flips Beguiler is because Aerie said Mazzy was an assassin. Aerie either has inside information on Mazzy's role or lied to lull us into a false sense of security. I do not see what Aerie has to gain by lying as town.

Ah, Post Number 403

You really do want me to reveal my role do you? My night results will reveal you[Adhom] and mazzy as scums. Mazzy is a assassin. Lynch me tomorrow if im wrong about this.

I think thats a big jump to be making. I believe Aerie to be an Agent, and to have results on Adhom and Mazzy which shows they didn't do any action. The most common cult role that wouldn't have an action is assassin. So if Mazzy flips something else, I do not believe Aerie to have ill intent and lie to us. It would just be common sense from an Agent standpoint.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Your theory is possible but unlikely imo. I don't see the agent being confident as to a role. I find explorer guessing or covering scum more likely.

[FM Sarevok]

Your theory is possible but unlikely imo. I don't see the agent being confident as to a role. I find explorer guessing or covering scum more likely.

Scum A covers for Scum B by stating that the role of scum B is Assassin instead of Beguiler? That's some weird covering.

Are the cultists informed of the other cultist's roles?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Yes but that scenario would buy the scum a free night kill. I like Aerie as a spy though. It is the only way I see her being that confident. Obviously she coyld have guessed well. Wifom.

[FM Sarevok]

Shar-Teel, on a unrelated note, do you have any reads to share?

[FM Valygar]

So you're willing to roll the dice and accept a 66% of chance of dying if you don't submit the correct answer, knowing that 2 volunteers have failed already and the collective mass of the entire town has been unable to come up with a solution anybody can agree upon?

I'm not making fun of you, it just sounds like a death-wish to me. I would literally be terrified of volunteering for the Satyr's gate.

Although I admire your confidence and optimistic attitude, I am willing to roll the dice, give a solution a shot, and possibly die for my actions instead of sending Mazzy (I want Mazzy lynched as opposed to volunteered just to so we can be sure, since Mazzy probably isn't a lunatic). I don't want to give up on the puzzle yet (certainly not tonight, and probably not tomorrow), and I was wrong about 'vengeance' being the answer to the Gargoyle's gate puzzle so who knows? Let's say whoever we volunteer has a 25% chance of submitting a correct solution: 66% of the 75% of failure means a 50% chance of death. If no one else will, I am willing to accept those odds...

I think that, if Mazzy was a beguiler, she would kill Imoen to spite her.

[FM Valygar]

As fun as making a colored list of players sounds, don't expect one from me until at least during the next in-game day.

Although I wouldn't be OK with sending Mazzy as a volunteer, something that might not be a horrible idea to do is send Xan again to volunteer. In my book, Xan has been one of the more townish players in the game (which, honestly, isn't saying much). He, after willingly volunteering, survived the traps yesterday, so a paranoid me is considering the possibility of sending Xan again to make sure he isn't night-immune. If he succeeds, I trust him to deliver the clue accurately and completely. If he fails, then he either dies or we have reason to be suspicious. Other than Jaheira or myself, that's my thought on the issue.

[FM Yoshimo]

Although I admire your confidence and optimistic attitude, I am willing to roll the dice, give a solution a shot, and possibly die for my actions instead of sending Mazzy (I want Mazzy lynched as opposed to volunteered just to so we can be sure, since Mazzy probably isn't a lunatic). I don't want to give up on the puzzle yet (certainly not tonight, and probably not tomorrow), and I was wrong about 'vengeance' being the answer to the Gargoyle's gate puzzle so who knows? Let's say whoever we volunteer has a 25% chance of submitting a correct solution: 66% of the 75% of failure means a 50% chance of death. If no one else will, I am willing to accept those odds...

I think that, if Mazzy was a beguiler, she would kill Imoen to spite her.

In case you wanted that exact odds, my friend. In your scenario:

25% chance of using right clue =
- 58.3% chance of survival
- 41.6% chance of dying
- 25% chance of obtaining correct clue

Analysis of the odds: Even at your estimation (which still seems optimistic to me) of how likely we are to guess the correct clue, the chance of you dying vastly out-weighs the chance of you solving the Gate. But add to that the fact that solving the Satyr's Gate is only useful if we can solve the Gargoyle's Gate and likely a whole bunch of other gates we haven't even been given yet all before the Cult maxes out on recruits.

[FM Yoshimo]

25% chance of using right clue =
- 58.3% chance of survival
- 41.6% chance of dying
- 25% chance of obtaining correct clue

Omgosh please ignore my ridiculous statistics, you must think I am mentally handicapped. Korgan must have hit me with his helmet. But either way the Analysis section is even more true than before.

[FM Mazzy]

Good Morning!

[FM Yoshimo]

Guten tag.

[FM Sarevok]

So I don't lose everything that I've been working on. I'll post the rest as I build them.

Reads, FM Aerie to FM Kagain
FM Aerie - Obvious Agent is Obvious
FM Ajantis - Lurks and is replaced. Day Three replacment is VERY ACTIVE, and pushes mostly against Imoen about wanting Mazzy lynched instead of Victoria. Logic is broken. I feel like the replacement has been pushing for a mislynch.
FM Alora - Harper? I'm not so sure. Very flip floppy
FM Anomen - I think he is a Ghost. You guys have to see it T.T
FM Branwen - Believe Mazzy, but vote her. Adhom is right and shout be protected (Post 398, Day Three). Her Cleric claim is meh >.<
FM Cernd - Was against the Edwin lynch in favor of Mazzy, pushes against Mazzy most of Day two, at the rest of us asking us to; votes Adhom to get a claim, then goes back to Mazzy, then pushes on Vicona for overeating to the puzzle and that we were going to let Mazzy live another day, switches to Alora for reasons. Spends almost all of Day Three pushing against Mazzy and Adhom.
Time will tell if my old friend is playing his town leader style or his scum leader style.
FM Coran - Good majority of posts are puzzle posts. Sheeping with the popular opinion until day three, where he defends Mazzy.
FM Dynaheir - "Sides" with Mazzy in day chat, and pushes against Viconia. I don't feel like I can make a good read on Dynaheir, but I'll post that I lean ever so scummy.
FM Faldorn - The biggest defender of Mazzy day three. A huge derailer. The town would be better without Faldorn.
FM Garrick - Was sure Viconia was not an Explorer. FoS on Montaron. I find him Scummy
FM Haer-Dalis - Wanted Mazzy dead since day two, wanting to lynch her over Adhom. Lots of Puzzle and Setup talk. FoS on Edwin, Mazzy, and Branwen Day One. Looks townish to me.
FM Imoen - Spends all of day three arguing as to why we need to lynch Mazzy over Viconia, Talks about the puzzle day two and comes up with a last will plan. Day one is only posts about the code that was posted. Wanted to lynch Edwin. I'm feeling town on this one.
FM Jaheira - Day one was spent agreeing with the town about Edwin, lurking to solve the code, and talking about the setup. Didn't want to lynch Day Two, set-up, and was more Anti-Mazzy than Anti-Adhom. Day three he wants to lynch Viconia, following the terrible logic of Faldorn.
FM Jan - Semi -Lurker, has wanted to lynch Mazzy since Day Two. I think he may be trying to blend in, or maybe he doesn't have a lot of time.
FM Kagain - Lurker, Replacement is lurker. Not much of anything to say.

[FM Jaheira]

-___- I'm 99% sure the point of Branwen claiming in puzzle chat was to reveal herself to as few people as possible...

[FM Sarevok]

-___- I'm 99% sure the point of Branwen claiming in puzzle chat was to reveal herself to as few people as possible...

It was already revealed -_____-, did you not read Day Two?

[FM Sarevok]

Spacing has been added to help with readability. FM Keldorn to FM Sarevok.

FM Keldorn - Focused on solving the puzzles, doesn't want to get behind any lynch trains on Day Two, and comes up with a plan to prove Mazzy. Mazzy ignores it and he rides Mazzy's train all the way to L-5. Sorry dude, should have listened to you T.T

FM Khalid - Semi-with Edwin train(Jester, Ghost, or Scum). Day Two, votes for Mazzy, then switches to Adhom to try and get a role claim. Wants to lynch Mazzy, Adhom, or Alora, with preference on Mazzy. Day Three, wants to lynch Mazzy.

FM Kivan - The Best Archer. Claimed Explorer. Has been helpful throughout all three days, bringing some much needed logic. He switched to the Viconia train for the same reason I did(had more votes, wanted to get a lynch off). I'm sure Kivan is town.

FM Korgan - Korgan talks in 3rd person! Korgan has an int of 9! Sarevok can't take anything he says seriously! Lied about being Duke in Heartwarden chat. etc etc. Trolling facade is hiding his bad logic and his good logic. Orange scummy, until Sarevok can take his posts seriously.

FM Mazzy - Die.

FM Minsc - Easily one of the most pro-town players in this game. Heavy FoS on Xan, and decides that Viconia should be lynched because both of them are scummy, and the town wants to lynch Viconia more. Has been a major driving force in what the town discusses. Easily a Town Leader. I would like to see more leading on Day Four Please T.T

FM Montaron - Half of his posts are in Day One, pushing against Edwin. Wanted to lynch Mazzy since day two. He claims he hasn't been trying to blend, so we will see how Day Four goes.

FM Nalia - Gets replaced, and promoted lynching Viconia with Faldorn. I think Nalia is really scummy.

FM Quayle - Bus Driver! Has he been converted yet?

FM Safana - Very active day one, posting about the code and Edwin and Alora. Day two posts clue and reads about a few scummy players, gets mad about name. Troll claims Duke and votes Viconia Day Three.

FM Sarevok - Thats me!

[FM Garrick]

If this was your first FM Xan would guess you also don't know Gerik well enough to steal his avatar...

FM Garrick does know Gerik. That is why FM Garrick has a Gerik avatar.


This is an argument I do not feel should proceed. I feel you believe what you are saying. I believe what I am. Let's cloud Garrick's real role in WIFOM.

Thank you. FM Garrick appreciates the WIFOM protection. FM Garrick thinks FM Sarevok is suspicious for revealing FM Branwen's role.

FM Garrick is still reading Day 2 so FM Garrick will be back in a little bit.

[FM Valygar]

So, who's it gonna be: Jaheira, Xan, or myself?

[FM Sarevok]

FM Garrick thinks FM Sarevok is suspicious for revealing FM Branwen's role.

FM Garrick is still reading Day 2 so FM Garrick will be back in a little bit.


It was already revealed -_____-, did you not read Day Two?

Oh yea, you didn't. Please read it then come back.

[FM Sarevok]

So, who's it gonna be: Jaheira, Xan, or myself?

I personally would like it if we killed Mazzy with this. I find Mazzy being the Beguiler highly unlikely. Since we don't have a good answer, lets just get rid of a cult, please.

[FM Valygar]

I personally would like it if we killed Mazzy with this. I find Mazzy being the Beguiler highly unlikely. Since we don't have a good answer, lets just get rid of a cult, please.

My concern: Mazzy either IS a Prophet, survives, and we try to lynch her in the day too, or Mazzy ISN'T a Prophet, survives, and we assume she's a Prophet and don't lynch her.

[FM Garrick]

I still don't find it worthwhile to lynch either of these two today, given the circumstances. Mazzy could have her uses tonight, and possibly another night as well to make sure we have the proper data for a ritual. Anomen could be useful throughout the game as long as he is not converted/killed. But that is all circumstantial as well. If there was to be a lynch today, I would prefer either my suspicions (at least to get some info out of her) or another deemed overall most suspicious.

FM Branwen was derailing the FM Mazzy train on Day 2. If FM Mazzy flips scum, FM Garrick would expect FM Branwen to also be scum.

[FM Mazzy]

I was derailing the Mazzy train too, what does that mean about me?

[FM Valygar]

I was derailing the Mazzy train too, what does that mean about me?

That if we lynch you, we can expect Cespenar to flip Orange Mafia.

[FM Mazzy]

That if we lynch you, we can expect Cespenar to flip Orange Mafia.

I love how you use that word IF, as if I could really survive another day.

[FM Valygar]

I love how you use that word IF, as if I could really survive another day.

On Night 1, I was pretty sure you would die on Day 2. On Night 2, I was pretty sure you would die Day 3. On Night 3, I have a hunch that we're somehow going to end up lynching Haer Dalis because YOLO.

[FM Mazzy]

I'm pretty sure the beguiler only redirects night actions and cannot redirect a puzzle trap kill. Nevertheless, I don't support sending Mazzy.


On Night 1, I was pretty sure you would die on Day 2. On Night 2, I was pretty sure you would die Day 3. On Night 3, I have a hunch that we're somehow going to end up lynching Haer Dalis because YOLO.

You almost killed me IRL, I choked because I couldn't stop from laughing.

[FM Valygar]

You almost killed me IRL, I choked because I couldn't stop from laughing.

This game.

[FM Ferengi]

Can we add the part about self-votes being tiebreakers into the FAQ? It has been asked in every puzzle chat I have been in.
Will do.


not quite. Inner Sanctum automatically opens D7, making the last time to attempt to solve the puzzle N5, which makes the last night which clues are useful N4 which is tomorrow. therefore, we only gain nothing if we can't solve the puzzle 2 nights from now.
This is a misconception. If the main puzzle is solved on night 6, it will cancel any cult conversion attempt made on night 6 because the inner sanctum is opened at the start of the night (when the solver is awarded a vest). Prophet and Bhaalspawn night immunities will also be gone starting night 6 if the puzzle is solved on that night.


Does the Cult get to know the roles of their allies before gaining a night chat? Is the Prophet alerted when he recruits a Bhaalspawn?
No and no.


Can a beguiler redirect a roleblock?
No.

[FM Mazzy]

The gods have awoken!

[FM Ferengi]

I am merely a humble, god-fearing imp!

[FM Valygar]

I am merely a humble, god-fearing imp!

Nah, you're the Orange Mafia's Janitor.

[FM Sarevok]

I think we should send Cespenar at this point.

[FM Ferengi]

No! Bhaal will hear of this insolence!
Cespenar hastily flies away

[FM Garrick]

What would you think about FM Mazzy being a Thief?

A thief can claim Diviner because the Thief has access to finding puzzle clues.
A thief needs to stall a few more days.
A thief volunteers to be sent to test a solution.
FM Mazzy does not mind if we think FM Mazzy is the Prophet because we will not lynch FM Mazzy.
Once the puzzle is solved, if FM Mazzy was not the person to solve the puzzle we will lynch FM Mazzy (Lunatic) for being the Prophet.

In my opinion FM Mazzy is playing more like a thief than a Prophet.

[FM Garrick]

EBWOP

In FM Garrick's opinion FM Mazzy is playing more like a thief than a Prophet.

[FM Tiax]

It's explained in the rest of my post that unless the Inner Sanctum can be opened tomorrow, Cult will MAX out on recruits tomorrow night, making tomorrow the last Day to open the Inner Sanctum if we actually want to effect the course of the game at all by doing so.

This is the most likely scenario.

Though a vastly less likely, but still possible scenario is that they have been delayed somehow meaning we would have to do it by Day 5.

Either way, if you're into gambling/investment sending possible Townies armed with half-baked clues at the Gates is drastically -ve expected Return On Investment.

meh, valid points. i've been thinking about the answer a lot today and can't think of anything which I am sure enough to risk my life on. while I doubt Star is going to be Mazzy's final answer, I'll still vote her up.

FM Mazzy

[FM Shar-Teel]

FM Aerie - Obvious Spy/Guessing Explorer is Obvious. Given Cespenar has just ruled out her main scum scenario, she isn't likely cult unless quartermaster.
FM Ajantis - Don't have a read on this one. Could very well be scum though and I'm leaning that way due to the position he took. I can't go all the way scum here though because I did feel V had some scumminess with the inconsistencies.
FM Alora - Likely harper because I would see the harpers ccing if not, because they are cult immune. They could be hiding back wanting to lynch Alora in other means though. Probably harper.
FM Anomen - Strong lean towards Avenger.
FM Branwen - Branwen is almost certainly telling the truth IMO. It would explain the low death count and not wanting to be outed.
FM Cernd - Derails the lynch day 2, contributes very little positive information despite having a lot of posts. It seems like he wanted to push Mazzy but never really wanted it to go through. He wanted a failed bus on his buddy IMO.
FM Coran - I'm suspecting thief here. Not much scum hunting and very focused on puzzles.
FM Dynaheir - Can admit when she pushed the wrong lynch. Strangely buddies me but then again Branwen did that before her behavior picked up dramatically. Null here for now.
FM Faldorn - Faldorn would be an excellent target to inquire more about given how she wouldn't even consider Mazzy as scum.
FM Garrick - Garrick's third person talk is annoying and makes it difficult for him to read. That could be a deliberate stall tactic to stop both town and scum from reading him. Haven't seen much content but he just replaced in.
FM Haer-Dalis - Obvious town. I spent at least one night chat with him and his actions and motivations all consist of town oriented scumhunting.
FM Imoen - Says Mazzy over V. Refuses to consider evidence of anyone else being scummy. This is most likely town but could be scum positioning for a town spot after a bus.
FM Jaheira - Jahiera may have been wrong on who to lynch but has never denied Mazzy's likely scuminess. She's focused the town on productive tasks and volunteered to go to the puzzle to ensure that likely scum couldn't miraculously get a clue. I disagree with the position but it clearly seems town motivated. I'd be surprised if this slot was any sort of scum.
FM Jan - Claimed Barbarian. I'm inclined to believe it for now until evidence shows to the contrary. Keep an eye on this one if there's sudden physical deaths, considering he was essential claiming town aligned by not killing if I understood that correctly.
FM Kagain - Lurker, Replacement is lurker. Not much of anything to say.

FM Keldorn - Big on the Mazzy train. Revealed his clue fast. No reason to suspect this guy is anything other than town.

FM Khalid - Rages a lot when he doesn't get what he wants. Seems to be an open book. I like his slot as town.

FM Kivan - I've had this guy as town since Night 1. He can easily be derailed into anti-town territory causing him to discuss stuff as to who the cult would convert. His night chat actions seem pretty town to me though.

FM Korgan - Korgan could be a neutral. He's definitely not helpful.

FM Mazzy - Scum die via puzzle. Now. Or open this blasted gate and give us a clue.

FM Minsc - I see Minsc as a town follower more than a leader. Give points but doesn't really direct discussion.

FM Montaron - Claims he had some sort of emergency. Claims like this should generally be believed unless they are opportunism. I'd like more content to read the slot.

FM Nalia - Only real activity was promoting lynching V. I'd like to see what more she does. I'm leaning scum but there is the outside possibility of her being town.

FM Quayle - Bus Driver! Town until evidence of bus driving stops. After the cult stop converting, I'd like to see him swap two people to confirm he isn't being an AT just swapping people but I probably wouldn't push this much.

FM Safana - She's given a lot of content. I see this slot as possibly trying to be like the last guy to troll claim Mayor in FM XVIII. Trolls are bitchy to read though.

FM Sarevok - His last contributions to this puzzle chat have been underwhelming. That could be the puzzle though just being a total pain. I would expect to see him push more against some of the null reads he has. I don't like his pushing for reads but I rarely turn down a direct question when asked.

FM Shar-Teel - Me.

FM Tiax Need more content ASAP or he goes into the scummy column.

FM Valygar - Kinda passive, but seems townie.

FM Xan - Probable town explorer but I haven't seen much content. Could be death immune scum.

FM Xzar - I don't like his disappearing and reappearing act day 1. Hasn't contributed much. Could be lunatic/avenger.

FM Yeslick - Everytime I have this slot as town he has a scummy day and vice versa.

FM Yoshimo - Fights for what he wants. Asks questions. Excellent follow through. Shoot me now if this shot flips scum.[/color]

[FM Shar-Teel]

Coran should be purple not blue damn it.

[FM Dynaheir]

For the record, I don't think I pushed the wrong lynch. I think I made the best decision given the info I had. I play on probabilities - just because the roulette wheel lands on 00 doesn't mean you should have bet on it.

Anyway, it's easy to say you were wrong when the lynch target flips town. IMO that's more scum behavior than town.

[FM Jaheira]

It was already revealed -_____-, did you not read Day Two?

It was fumbled that it might be Branwen, but if I remember correctly it was covered by saying we had 2 role claims.


I'm most likely not going to be here when night ends, as I am at my brother's house currently and I'm unsure what times I'll be on the computer (I'm sneaking away from the party atm lol). I will bang my head against a wall if Mazzy is Thief and survives this puzzle. I have some speculations about various other clues that I will include in my LW, but they are unimportant if Mazzy is not Thief.

FM Mazzy Cause we aren't confident, need her to die, and if we come up with a good answer I doubt I will be here to change my proposition. Gonna attempt to write a full LW, so I probably won't post again.

[FM Garrick]

FM Mazzy

FM Shar-Teel what do you think of FM Mazzy being a possible thief?

[FM Shar-Teel]

For the record, I don't think I pushed the wrong lynch. I think I made the best decision given the info I had. I play on probabilities - just because the roulette wheel lands on 00 doesn't mean you should have bet on it.

Anyway, it's easy to say you were wrong when the lynch target flips town. IMO that's more scum behavior than town.

I'm trying to determine whether or not your claim that you "pushed the best lynch" based on the info you had. We all play on probabilities, yes but scum can just as well turn around and say that well I just thought V was the better lynch. That doesn't make your claim true. In fact, if you are scum, that claim is patently false. So you're at a null for the time being.

[FM Shar-Teel]

FM Mazzy

FM Shar-Teel what do you think of FM Mazzy being a possible thief?

Unlikely. Her actions don't focus enough on the puzzles but focus on proving herself innocent. It's possible but unlikely.

[FM Ferengi]

REMINDER: Deadline to send in night actions is 2 hours before night ending.

[FM Mazzy]

How many of you guys are going to be around for the transition?

[FM Garrick]

FM Garrick is back to thinking FM Mazzy is the Prophet. FM Garrick is at Day 3, Page 16 and wants to be caught up by the time Day 4 starts.
FM Garrick is fairly certain that we can lynch scum tomorrow although FM Garrick does not want to risk wasting a lynch on the Prophet which is why FM Garrick will not push for FM Mazzy's lynch.

[FM Sarevok]

FM Sarevok - His last contributions to this puzzle chat have been underwhelming. That could be the puzzle though just being a total pain.

I'm telling you, I couldn't even bring myself to look at this chat for a day because it was this puzzle.

[FM Garrick]

Probable Cult:
Prophet - FM Mazzy
Hidden Cult - ??
Assassin -
Assassin -
Assassin -
Assassin, Culted N1/N2 - FM Aerie
???, Culted N1/N2 - ???
???, Culted N3 - ???

FM Aerie's claims that FM Mazzy is an assassin and then saying to lynch FM Aerie tomorrow if it is not true seems like a culted assassin or some other useless role who wants to waste a lynch on FM Mazzy the prophet and then lynch FM Aerie to open up another spot in the cult to recruit a power role.

FM Shar-Teel can you explain why you think FM Aerie is town? Maybe FM Garrick is not there yet in Day 3 but this is what it is looking like at Page 21.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Sarevok, I leaning strongly towards believing you but I cannot put you at 100% because you having a defeatist attitude and not suggesting who to puzzle lynch.

Garrick, I don't see the gain in Aerie claiming that Mazzy is an assassin if Mazzy is really the prophet and then voting to lynch her. There's NOTHING the cult gains by that play. If Mazzy was a beguiler, then the cult would gain something by trying to trick us into believing Mazzy is an assassin.

[FM Garrick]

Probable Cult:
Prophet - FM Mazzy
Hidden Cult - ??
Assassin - FM Cernd
Assassin -
Assassin -
Assassin, Culted N1 - FM Aerie
Arcane Trickster, Culted N2 - FM Quayle
???, Culted N3 - ???

Updated to include FM Quayle getting culted on N2. If FM Quayle was culted on N2 then FM Quayle's illusionist swap would not have gone through. Therefore FM Quayle would pick a cult member FM Cernd and probable jester FM Anomen to corroborate his claim.

If an illusionist is converted to an arcane trickster on the night he tries to swap Players A and B, what feedback would be given to Player A/B? Would the feedback be a bus swap to player A or would it be nothing to either player since he tried to swap instead of casting a major image?

[FM Sarevok]

FM Shar-Teel - Another town leader. Wanted Mazzy lynched over Viconia. Helps with the puzzles, and has done little I could state as scummy. Possibly converted, but I doubt it.

FM Tiax - Lurker. Defended Mazzy, and posted about Alora and Harpers. Pushed against Viconia. Hasn't done much :P

FM Valygar - A very middle of the road player, nothing screams out at me besides wanting to do the impossible puzzle. I don't think is he ghost due to Adhom, so maybe he thinks he has the answer. Playing very Town Support(If I can use a Yayap term), probable town.


FM Xan - Probable town explorer but I haven't seen much content. I Agree with this part of Shar-Teel's read on this player.

FM Xzar - Lurker, says same ideas. Day Two he looks for the lynch on Alora. Believed Mazzy over Viconia. I don't find him super scummy, but he is definitely scummy.

FM Yeslick - Troll. Defends Mazzy. Spends Day three defending Mazzy. .-. I'm sure he is scum.

FM Yoshimo - LOGIC, OMG LOGIC, definitely town.

[FM Ferengi]

If an illusionist is converted to an arcane trickster on the night he tries to swap Players A and B, what feedback would be given to Player A/B? Would the feedback be a bus swap to player A or would it be nothing to either player since he tried to swap instead of casting a major image?
Swaps happen before conversion, so his illusionist action would simply go through.

[FM Sarevok]

Sarevok, I leaning strongly towards believing you but I cannot put you at 100% because you having a defeatist attitude and not suggesting who to puzzle lynch.

Well, there isn't much of a point since I want Mazzy to die :P

Vote number 7!
FM Mazzy

But yea, I do have a defeatist attitude about this impossible puzzle. I am sad T.T

In all seriousness, I understand why someone not attempting to solve the puzzle would be scummy.

[FM Mazzy]

Well, there isn't much of a point since I want Mazzy to die :P

Vote number 7!
FM Mazzy

But yea, I do have a defeatist attitude about this impossible puzzle. I am sad T.T

In all seriousness, I understand why someone not attempting to solve the puzzle would be scummy.

Guess that means, I am the only town here .... I am the only one trying to crack this thing!

[FM Sarevok]

Guess that means, I am the only town here .... I am the only one trying to crack this thing!

Logic now dictates that Mazzy is the most pro-town person here, and therfore has been converted. GG Mazzy, its been fun.

[FM Sarevok]

Logic now dictates that Mazzy is the most pro-town person here, and therfore has been converted. GG Mazzy, its been fun.

BTW Mazzy being pro-town was a joke. I know at least someone here won't notice that.

[FM Mazzy]

BTW Mazzy being pro-town was a joke. I know at least someone here won't notice that.

Jokes on you I am the Duke!

[FM Garrick]

Garrick, I don't see the gain in Aerie claiming that Mazzy is an assassin if Mazzy is really the prophet and then voting to lynch her. There's NOTHING the cult gains by that play. If Mazzy was a beguiler, then the cult would gain something by trying to trick us into believing Mazzy is an assassin.

To the contrary.

The cult is capped at 9 (4 recruits) over the span of 6 nights assuming we do not open the puzzle earlier. This means the cult has 2 nights of "cooldown" where they cannot recruit and must wait for the inner sanctum to open. For the maximum cult KPN, it makes sense to sacrifice 2 members (especially if they were recruited as assassins) in order to recruit more of the adventurers to their ranks. They can trade an assassin for a potential power role.

The reason why the cult would want to lynch FM Mazzy as the prophet is to out the prophet to the bhaalspawns.

The cult does not want to convert a bhaalspawn because:

If a Bhaalspawn was converted before the inner sanctum is opened, the Prophet will be assassinated the night it becomes unsealed (cannot be prevented) and the Bhaalspawn becomes the new Cult Leader, meaning he can override the rest of the Cult’s actions.

However if a Bhaalspawn kills the Prophet on the night the sanctum is opened:

If a Bhaalspawn kills the current Cult Leader, they will be given the option to take up the mantle and become the new Cult Leader, effectively becoming a Cultist and losing their ability to win with the Adventurers. Their decision must be made before nightfall, otherwise they remain neutral.

That gives the cult a replacement leader. FM Garrick thinks that the cult is trying to communicate with the bhaalspawns because if FM Mazzy fabricated FM Viconia's clue then FM Mazzy would be 100% aware of inserting the necromancer/shadow adept feedback into FM Mazzy's clue.

The cult would want to re-align a bhaalspawn who can win with the adventurers to the cult so that they are forced to win together.

[FM Sarevok]

To the contrary.

The cult is capped at 9 (4 recruits) over the span of 6 nights assuming we do not open the puzzle earlier. This means the cult has 2 nights of "cooldown" where they cannot recruit and must wait for the inner sanctum to open. For the maximum cult KPN, it makes sense to sacrifice 2 members (especially if they were recruited as assassins) in order to recruit more of the adventurers to their ranks. They can trade an assassin for a potential power role.

The reason why the cult would want to lynch FM Mazzy as the prophet is to out the prophet to the bhaalspawns.

The cult does not want to convert a bhaalspawn because:


However if a Bhaalspawn kills the Prophet on the night the sanctum is opened:


That gives the cult a replacement leader. FM Garrick thinks that the cult is trying to communicate with the bhaalspawns because if FM Mazzy fabricated FM Viconia's clue then FM Mazzy would be 100% aware of inserting the necromancer/shadow adept feedback into FM Mazzy's clue.

The cult would want to re-align a bhaalspawn who can win with the adventurers to the cult so that they are forced to win together.

But the cult doesn't have a night chat yet, so they couldn't plan this out.

[FM Garrick]

Swaps happen before conversion, so his illusionist action would simply go through.

The order of operations states that Illusionist swaps can be affected by Prophet manipulation/converts. Do you mean that swaps are only affected by manipulations and not by converts?


8. Illusionist Swaps (Affected by 10)
9. Guardian Protects (Affected by 11)
10. Prophet Manipulates / Converts

[FM Shar-Teel]

Sarevok, do not feed the troll.

Mazzy, do a -reveal or shut up about being the duke. If you are the duke, LVP voting can commence now. :suspicious:

Garrick, your answers make no sense. Aerie's reveal would just cause us to send her to the puzzle chat. If Mazzy is the prophet, Mazzy lives. We try to lynch her. If Mazzy isn't the prophet and lives, we try to lynch her. Aerie's reveal does nothing to change that. Therefore, it's a negative utility play if Aerie is indeed cult.

[FM Garrick]

But the cult doesn't have a night chat yet, so they couldn't plan this out.

FM Aerie could be sacrificing FM Aerie since FM Aerie was recruited as an assassin.

FM Garrick believes that FM Aerie and FM Mazzy could be running cult gambits independently of each other.

[FM Garrick]

Garrick, your answers make no sense. Aerie's reveal would just cause us to send her to the puzzle chat. If Mazzy is the prophet, Mazzy lives. We try to lynch her. If Mazzy isn't the prophet and lives, we try to lynch her. Aerie's reveal does nothing to change that. Therefore, it's a negative utility play if Aerie is indeed cult.

FM Aerie the cult assassin wants to die so that the cult can recruit another player to their ranks. The cult could have an effective KPN of 6 while the inner sanctum is closed instead of an effective KPN of 4. FM Garrick expected to see some cult assassins suicide to increase the cult KPN. Getting sent to a puzzle chat is a way to suicide that allows the prophet to recruit another player. Lynch or puzzle chat death accomplishes the same righteous goal for the cult. Do you understand this at least, FM Shar-Teel?

If FM Mazzy is the prophet and gets revealed by not getting lynched then a Bhaalspawn can kill FM Mazzy on the night the sanctum opens and replace the outed prophet with an unknown entity. FM Garrick believes that FM Mazzy FAKED a necromancer/shadow adept feedback on FM Mazzy's puzzle clue obtained from FM Viconia to hint that FM Mazzy is the prophet.

It is proven that FM Mazzy faked FM Viconia's clue. Why would FM Mazzy include necromancer/shadow adept feedback on FM Viconia's clue? This makes no sense if not to try to communicate with a bhaalspawn.

[FM Garrick]

This is either the biggest conspiracy theory and the gods are laughing at poor FM Garrick or FM Garrick is on to something.

My two questions are this:
1. If given the chance, would cult want to recruit 4 members or 6 members? If the living member cap is 9, does it make sense for the cult to sacrifice two assassins in order to recruit 2 more?
2. Why did FM Mazzy write both a fake necromancer/shadow adept message and a faked puzzle clue?

FM Garrick thinks that FM Garrick is explaining these two questions with FM Garrick's interpretation of events. Alternate explanations are of course welcome.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Garrick, no one suspected Aerie was a cult until her claim Mazzy was an assassin. If the cult would do your sacrificial plan, it makes more sense to come from someone like Faldorn rather than Aerie. I do understand that a cult member suiciding would allow the cult to recruit someone else, but it's more likely to occur when a player is already deemed suspicious and the cult would be at capacity or darn near it. Even if the cult was successful every night, that would give them eight starting tomorrow. It makes no sense to sacrifice someone who is not suspicious to replace them with someone else. I still think your sacrifice theory doesn't hold legs but even if it did, Aerie wouldn't be the one to pull it.

Faking the Bhaalspawn was probably meant to give Mazzy an out (solution drug dealt/came from Necromancer), but Mazzy likely forgot/didn't notice that meant she had to fake two clues. Hence, she's now backed off of most pretenses of being town.

[FM Sarevok]

1. If given the chance, would cult want to recruit 4 members or 6 members? If the living member cap is 9, does it make sense for the cult to sacrifice two assassins in order to recruit 2 more?


If the cult is maxed, why would anyone risk the gambit of trying to get killed to recruit again, when they could just solve the puzzles right after they are maxed and can start killing?

[FM Garrick]

Garrick, no one suspected Aerie was a cult until her claim Mazzy was an assassin. If the cult would do your sacrificial plan, it makes more sense to come from someone like Faldorn rather than Aerie. I do understand that a cult member suiciding would allow the cult to recruit someone else, but it's more likely to occur when a player is already deemed suspicious and the cult would be at capacity or darn near it. Even if the cult was successful every night, that would give them eight starting tomorrow. It makes no sense to sacrifice someone who is not suspicious to replace them with someone else. I still think your sacrifice theory doesn't hold legs but even if it did, Aerie wouldn't be the one to pull it.

The only problem with this is that FM Faldorn is a Thief/Shadow Thief. FM Garrick guarantees it.

Dumb cult members will not think to sacrifice themselves. Non-assassin cult members will not sacrifice themselves. FM Garrick believes FM Aerie is smart enough to think to sacrifice FM Aerie and was smart enough to be a good cult target.


If the cult is maxed, why would anyone risk the gambit of trying to get killed to recruit again, when they could just solve the puzzles right after they are maxed and can start killing?

Culting is more powerful than killing.

[FM Garrick]

FM Garrick wants to know what FM Shar-Teel thinks about FM Mazzy faking the necromancer/shadow adept feedback. FM Garrick can not think of a good reason why it was faked except for FM Garrick's theory.

[FM Shar-Teel]

Faking the Bhaalspawn was probably meant to give Mazzy an out (solution drug dealt/came from Necromancer), but Mazzy likely forgot/didn't notice that meant she had to fake two clues. Hence, she's now backed off of most pretenses of being town.

I already answered that.

Faldorn's play does NOT seem consistent with a Thief at all. Perhaps a Cult but not a thief. Why do you guarantee that?

[FM Garrick]

Faldorn's play does NOT seem consistent with a Thief at all. Perhaps a Cult but not a thief. Why do you guarantee that?

It is from the original FM Garrick's night feedback. There is a chance FM Garrick is wrong but FM Garrick made an inference that FM Faldorn is/was setting FM Faldorn up to be lynched which seems consistent with a Thief instead of the other things he could be.

FM Garrick does not have any other night results yet. Also please keep FM Garrick's information a secret until FM Garrick chooses to reveal publicly.

[FM Mazzy]

I will respect your wishes. I will keep your information quiet.

[FM Mazzy]

Also night actions are locked in!

[FM Shar-Teel]

It is from the original FM Garrick's night feedback. There is a chance FM Garrick is wrong but FM Garrick made an inference that FM Faldorn is/was setting FM Faldorn up to be lynched which seems consistent with a Thief instead of the other things he could be.

FM Garrick does not have any other night results yet. Also please keep FM Garrick's information a secret until FM Garrick chooses to reveal publicly.

Umm yeah keeping roles secret like Fort Knox is generally what I try to do.

Yet, you're claiming Faldorn was setting herself up to be lynched and that's a thief role? That needs SERIOUS rephrasing.

[FM Mazzy]

Garrick guarantees Faldorn is the thief yet, was just recently speculating me being the thief, how do these theories both reside in one skull?

[FM Jaheira]

It would be thorougly amusing to have two Thieves both fighting to open the Sanctum, but doubtful. 1 hour 30 minutes till daybreak. Anything we need to discuss before then?

[FM Mazzy]

What's the answer to the riddle?

[FM Shar-Teel]

Go for Spear/Hate if you really want to try to be pro town. Star sucks and you know it. Of course, given you're not town I doubt you'll help us.

[FM Mazzy]

-Propose Solution


Earth

[FM Mazzy]

-propose solution


Earth

[FM Ferengi]

For all but one person present at the Satyr's Gate, voluntarily attempting to speak another word to solve its riddle was completely out of the question. And for good reason, for it had proven to be quite a pain to those who had tried in the past.

The only one who dared to brave it was Mazzy, who claimed that she knew the answer. The others were more than happy to let her try. None had any trust left in the halfling since Viconia had been found innocent only after she had been put to the torch.

Mazzy laid her hand upon the gate, like she had done before. She hesitated for a moment, but then smirked in the face of danger and spoke out loud the word that she had chosen: "Earth."

The eyes of the Satyr glowed in a green light as the walls rumbled again. Quickly the light grew brighter and brighter, until a blinding flash caused the group to back away and cover their eyes in a reflex. When they all dared to look again to see what had happened, they saw that the gate had been opened. And behind it lay a narrow stairway that was part man-made and part cave, descending deeper into the earth.

The volunteer seemed to be still alive and breathing, but she stood there in a trance-like state. For a moment, they hoped Mazzy might perish. She remained unflinching and unaware of her surroundings for a time, but shen she grinned. And the grin turned to laughter. "Hah, I did it! Didn't think I would, did ya?"

Sarevok shook his head and groaned as the party of adventurers gathered their belongings. A short while later, Mazzy found some small pieces of parchment on her person that she didn't think she had on her before. She threw them a brief glance before tucking them away, hoping the others would not see. "Could be important," she thought to herself.