The Gargoyle's Gate: night 1

[FM Ferengi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN3n-C6Sxtw&list=PL945B1759FCAC5517

The passages of the labyrinth that lies beneath the city of Baldur’s Gate and above the long abandoned Eldercity are silent, and the way is lit only by the occasional torch hanging from the walls. Your group treads with great caution, for it is known that giant spiders hide in the alcoves and many deadly traps have been laid with the intention to keep intruders out.

Who exactly is responsible for all these defense mechanisms is unknown. While you’re certainly not the first to venture through here and possibly not the first to make it to your destination, many a daring thief has died in pursuit of riches lost to time. And not only thieves have fallen. Part of the way through, you come across the dead body of a man clad in a vest of chainmail armour, bearing the seal of the Flaming Fist mercenaries. The man is impaled on a spear protruding from the wall. It may well have been one of the men sent ahead of the expedition by Duke Eltan.

After a long trek through the dungeon, you finally make it to a dead end that doesn’t have you turn around to find another path. Before you stands a gate of stone with the image of a Gargoyle depicted on it. The gate is sealed however. And when Montaron touches it, the walls start to hum and the gargoyle’s eyes begin to glow. The gate “speaks” to you.

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

Careful not to choose the wrong word for an answer, Montaron withdraws his hand from the gate. The light in the eyes goes out and the sound from the walls dies down.

The disturbance you have caused has not gone unnoticed... Several strangers come from another path to join the expedition. Who they are and why they are here, they will not say. But for the moment, the group has more important things on their minds than to question them. A riddle needs solving...




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Reminder:
Each group must vote for a “volunteer” to test their solution. Note that someone can be forced to take this position against their will. Whoever gets the most votes will be charged with the task. In case of a tie, the volunteer will be randomised to break the tie.

Voting for a volunteer uses the same formatting as voting to lynch someone, with [ vote ] [ /vote ] tags around their name. A majority doesn’t lock the vote. The tally at the end of the night is used.

Solutions can be proposed by anyone, whether they’re chosen as volunteer or not. A solution is proposed in the puzzle chat using the following format:

-propose solution


insert solution here

Unfortunately for the explorers, all of these locations are heavily trapped. If a wrong answer is given by the volunteer, he has a 66% chance of being struck by a trap and die. Having no proposed solution counts as a wrong answer.

If he is correct though, he will be awarded with a clue in his night feedback PM and the puzzle location will be closed.

Mysterious Strangers:
You may notice there are some people inside the puzzle chat who do not appear on the player list. These are the reserves. They are free to discuss the game with you here and provide ideas for puzzle solutions.

Although they may help, the Mysterious Strangers are not eligible for the "volunteer" position, so you cannot vote them up for it.

Do you find one of the Mysterious Strangers you've encountered in this puzzle location or elsewhere particularly helpful? Show your appreciation by vouching for them!

Do so by sending a PM to Bhaal and/or Cespenar in the following format:

-vouch for [Mysterious Stranger]

You can vouch for one Mysterious Stranger each night. That player does not have to be in your current puzzle chat. A (hidden) cumulative tally will be kept for all votes cast for all nights. The reserve player with the highest number of votes gets first dibs on the next occasion a replacement is needed. If he declines, the second in line gets to take the slot, and so on. If there are multiple openings, the Stranger with the most votes gets to choose his preferred vacant slot to fill.


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Player List:
FM Montaron
FM Quayle
FM Keldorn
FM Valygar
FM Cernd
FM Aerie
FM Haer-Dalis
FM Xzar
FM Imoen
FM Tiax
FM Garrick
FM Viconia

[FM Bevil]

Is anybody else out there?

I am quite puzzled by this riddle.
I see the line "Let breakers be broken" is in a different font.
My best guess is "gossip" but I am not sure how well this fits since English is not my first language.

[Forum Mafia GM]

There was a formatting error in copying the text from a document. This is now fixed.

[FM Bevil]

I see people viewing the other Puzzle Chats. Unfortunately nobody is here to talk to me.

While I am a reserve you may think of me as the confirmed neutral third party player. I will try my best to update you with my thoughts about the game. I guess I am the Crier of Puzzle Chat B.


Role List Speculation:

The Prophet
Hidden Cultist - Quartermaster
Assassin
Assassin
Assassin

The Hidden Cultist should be a Quartermaster to turn the Assassins into mafia power roles.
The mafia’s most powerful roles are a Janitor and a Beguiler.
-The Janitor and the Thief are the only roles who can read last wills of living players. Be careful what you put in your last will.
-Drug Dealer has the potential to long-con counter the Diviner.

-Wants to convert power roles, probably mid-range to low activity potential power roles who seem intelligent.



Hidden Bhaalspawn - Barbarian
Hidden Bhaalspawn – Shadow Adept OR Necromancer
Hidden Bhaalspawn - Evoker

Possible roles from least likely to most likely:
-Half-Dragon. This role has no ability to kill people who do not visit him.
-Doppelganger. The Harpers and Cult can find out a doppelganger by posting phrases in night chat archives to prove their identity. I suggest doing this as an anti-doppelganger device.
-Shadow Adept and Necromancer should be good roles that kill at a slow pace. Only one of them is in the game.
-Barbarian.
-Evoker. Be careful not to direct power roles.



Hidden Neutral - Thief
Hidden Neutral - Amnesiac
Hidden Neutral - Student
Hidden Neutral - Ghost
Hidden Neutral - Hitman

Thief. He is basically guaranteed to be in the game.
I picked the most interesting neutral roles to be in the setup speculation.


Hidden Harper - Agent
Hidden Harper - Alchemist

Harpers.
I think they will start with an Agent (Sheriff) and an Alchemist (Gunsmith) because the Harpers can check people and give the trustworthy players guns.


Cleric
Duke
Hidden Adventurer - Armoursmith
Hidden Adventurer - Bard
Hidden Adventurer - Diviner
Hidden Adventurer - Enchantress
Hidden Adventurer - Heartwarder
Hidden Adventurer – Coroner/Shaman
Hidden Adventurer – Mortician/Shaman
Hidden Adventurer – Warden/Fighter
Hidden Adventurer – Spy
Hidden Adventurer - Ranger
Hidden Adventurer - Explorer
Hidden Adventurer - Explorer
Hidden Adventurer - Explorer
Explorer
Explorer
Explorer
Explorer
Explorer
Explorer
Explorer

Adventurers.
-There should not be a Bard since a consort is not possible in the setup.
-Diviner works well with the puzzle mechanic
-Enchantress. I have never seen this role. Why else would they put it in the setup.
-Heartwarder. Same as enchantress.

[FM Bevil]

I will keep this table updated as the day progresses.

Claims
Name Role Claim Post Number
FM Anomen FM Xan is a cultist. 5
FM Kivan FM Sarevok has to be evil. 57

Suspects
Name Case against them Post Number Suspected By
FM Alora Defensive after 1 vote against her. 19 FM Safana [21], FM Haer-Dalis [33], FM Sarevok [51]

FM Mazzy Tries too hard to act serious and pro-town. 42 FM Anomen [48], FM Yeslick [49]

[FM Bevil]

Sorry Bhaal. I could not solve the riddle so I am just dumping notes here so people know I am active to vote me into the game.

[FM Ferengi]

Updated the original post with some information that might interest you.

[FM Bevil]

Notable Claims/Actions
Name Role Claim/Action Post Number
FM Anomen FM Xan is a cultist. 5
FM Kivan FM Sarevok has to be evil. 57
FM Yoshimo Posts a code, edited by Cespenar [70], another code in [77]70, 77
FM Keldorn A heartseeker might be in the game. 86

Suspects
Name Case against them Post Number Suspected ByDefended By
FM Alora Defensive after 1 vote against her. 19 FM Safana [21], FM Haer-Dalis [33], FM Sarevok [51]FM Valygar [67], FM Kivan [68]

FM Mazzy Tries too hard to act serious and pro-town. 42 FM Anomen [48], FM Yeslick [49], FM Kivan [68], FM Haer-Dalis[73], FM Xzar [82]
FM Yoshimo Hunts for good puzzle solvers. Scum does not want the puzzles solved because the Inner Sanctum will open. 70, 77 FM Kivan [80],
FM Edwin Suggests that we let the cult grow to 9 and not risk player lives to puzzle death. 87 FM Shar-Teel [89], FM Anomen [97], FM Montaron [98]

[FM Casavir]

Interesting, I had not realized this had started but now that I have I intend to be active. Currently reviewing the riddle and I have a number of solutions, and I believe a solid train of thought, but I cannot quite place the last lines. Any insights on "With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed."?

[FM Aerie]

I guess im allowed to talk here now.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

I'm here now too! Hello Aerie.

[FM Aerie]

Do the reserves have access to all the puzzle chats?

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Do the reserves have access to all the puzzle chats?

I don't know, but I like Bevil as a reserve :)

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Mysterious Strangers:
You may notice there are some people inside the puzzle chat who do not appear on the player list. These are the reserves. They are free to discuss the game with you here and provide ideas for puzzle solutions.

Although they may help, the Mysterious Strangers are not eligible for the "volunteer" position, so you cannot vote them up for it.

Do you find one of the Mysterious Strangers you've encountered in this puzzle location or elsewhere particularly helpful? Show your appreciation by vouching for them!

Do so by sending a PM to Bhaal and/or Cespenar in the following format:

-vouch for [Mysterious Stranger]

You can vouch for one Mysterious Stranger each night. That player does not have to be in your current puzzle chat. A (hidden) cumulative tally will be kept for all votes cast for all nights. The reserve player with the highest number of votes gets first dibs on the next occasion a replacement is needed. If he declines, the second in line gets to take the slot, and so on. If there are multiple openings, the Stranger with the most votes gets to choose his preferred vacant slot to fill.

Here Aerie. So the reserves can help us. Great!

[Forum Mafia GM]

Do the reserves have access to all the puzzle chats?

Each reserve has access to the chats 1 at a time, the same as you. However, they have access to their appropriate chat during the day as well.

[FM Casavir]

Are the puzzle solutions one word?

[FM Xzar]

I believe that "gossip" goes to the right direction. "rumours" also comes to mind after doing a quick "analyzation" of the riddle.

[FM Imoen]

Greetings, friends. It seems the gods have at last graced us with a divine puzzle.


Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

This puzzle is most perplexing. It does not even ask for an answer. I'm not sure where to begin. Some things I observed:
The rhyme scheme is: AABBCDCD
*It's divided into four 2-line sentences


Not much to go on at all. I'll have to keep mulling it over. Hopefully you lads are more perceptive than I.

[FM Aerie]

Are we going to get a list of the players in this room? so we know who we can vote on.

[FM Imoen]

Gods, do we get any information about the Inner Sanctum puzzle now, or is it entirely based on clues earned via puzzle solutions

[FM Aerie]

There could also be clues in the RP, so don't forget about reading that aswell.

[FM Cernd]

There could also be clues in the RP, so don't forget about reading that aswell.
I've been reading Montaron's posts.
He's mentioned twice in the RP, and then there's the whole "Maybe something was said" deal.

[FM Montaron]

Hmm, Do we not get a list of the players that joined this group? So if people stay silent, we will never know they were in here.
Gah.
Anyway.

I do feel like Gossip/Rumours is plausible, but the two last lines confuses me.
''With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.''

How do you think they relate to Gossip/Rumours?
Also, I was mentioned twice in the RP. Not cool, I get to be the only once that's confirmed to be at this gate.
On a side note, maybe I am related to the puzzle? Another possibility.

[FM Montaron]

Are we going to get a Day End post, With Edwin's role and the Night's end time?

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Hmm, Do we not get a list of the players that joined this group? So if people stay silent, we will never know they were in here.
Gah.
Anyway.

I do feel like Gossip/Rumours is plausible, but the two last lines confuses me.
''With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.''

How do you think they relate to Gossip/Rumours?
Also, I was mentioned twice in the RP. Not cool, I get to be the only once that's confirmed to be at this gate.
On a side note, maybe I am related to the puzzle? Another possibility.

I am guessing that your lore character is related. Also fury and untamed could be anger? So I could see gossip/rumours. Although I think it is more complicated than that.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Are we going to get a Day End post, With Edwin's role and the Night's end time?

My butler is readying one. He is worth his time, I assure you.

[FM Cernd]

I'll take a break from reading. We should brainstorm now that many of us are online.

B and C are about retribution/karma.
Is the gargoyle important?
Is Montaron just part of the RP or a key to this puzzle?

[FM Xzar]

It could relate in a way that, let's say, you are the target of some nasty rumors that make you rage but you don't share your sid of a story related to the rumours or something, which leaves people in an outraged state because these are some nasty rumours we are talking about.

Was I clear enough? I hope..

[FM Haer-Dalis]

It could relate in a way that, let's say, you are the target of some nasty rumors that make you rage but you don't share your sid of a story related to the rumours or something, which leaves people in an outraged state because these are some nasty rumours we are talking about.

Was I clear enough? I hope..
So you blame them? Since you didn't give your side and feel like you don't need to.

[FM Imoen]

The gods have ended the day. It seems Edwin was a cleric. This is most troubling, milords.

[FM Montaron]

I am guessing that your lore character is related. Also fury and untamed could be anger? So I could see gossip/rumours. Although I think it is more complicated than that.

Montaron was a minor character. You would hire him and Xzar in Baldur's Gate to travel to the mines.

In Baldur's Gate 2, you get a quest from Xzar to find Montaron. You find ''Montaron'' polymorphed into a bird, you bring him back to Xzar, but turns up that it wasn't Montaron but a Harper Assassin, who then kills Xzar.
When you revisit the Harper's Headquarters, you can find Montaron's body in a chest.

Not sure if simply a coincidence that FM Xzar (Hello!) is also at this gate with us.

[FM Xzar]

Hey guys, read the RP of the say thread? I feel like rumours as our solution got more likely.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

The gods have ended the day. It seems Edwin was a cleric. This is most troubling, milords.

Damn he acted so scummy.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Hey guys, read the RP of the say thread? I feel like rumours as our solution got more likely.

About to read it.

[FM Xzar]

So you blame them? Since you didn't give your side and feel like you don't need to.

Huh? Not seeing at all how this relates to the question of how the last two lines relate to gossip/rumours. Or are you asking for clarification?

Also hi Montaron!

[FM Cernd]

On Edwin: It's not a loss. he was a worthless idiot. I'm glad he's dead, although I regret that such a stupid player got that role.
Anyway. Let's not get distracted with him. he already made us waste a day. Let's not waste a night talking about him.

It was said that no off-site searching or knowledge would be required to solve the puzzles, so if Montaron is actually part of the puzzle, it would be Montaron the player, and not Montaron the character.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Huh? Not seeing at all how this relates to the question of how the last two lines relate to gossip/rumours. Or are you asking for clarification?

Also hi Montaron!

Well you blame people out of anger. Also if you read the first part too it talks about halflings.

[FM Montaron]

The gods have ended the day. It seems Edwin was a cleric. This is most troubling, milords.

Wow... I was almost hoping he was an Avenger/Lunatic just so I could be ''Oh well, at least it isn't the worst FM play I've seen since I've been here. Well played.''
That was the worst FM play I've seen since I've been here. :|


And true, Cernd. Might as well clarify this.
Can Character Lore be used in the puzzles?

[FM Haer-Dalis]

If you noticed Kivan and Minsc were used in the RP. Wanna guess they might be the names in the other puzzles if they are using names in all of them?

[FM Imoen]

Damn he acted so scummy.

I too was convinced that he was conspiring with the Cult of Bhaal. Whoever his cleric master was, he should be barred from his profession for sending that lad off to practice medicine without even telling him that the laws of his profession prevent him from joining the Cult of Bhaal! Absolute heresy.

[FM Xzar]

Well you blame people out of anger. Also if you read the first part too it talks about halflings.

Do you blame people out of anger? Still not quite sure what you are gettint at, but I think we're getting there. And do you think halflings relate to the riddle somehow?

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Do you blame people out of anger? Still not quite sure what you are gettint at, but I think we're getting there. And do you think halflings relate to the riddle somehow?

Well I think Montaron was a halfling? Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Also we know something was said. Rumors could be it, but how would it relate to the second part?
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

[FM Montaron]

Well I think Montaron was a halfling? Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Also we know something was said. Rumors could be it, but how would it relate to the second part?
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

Yes, Montaron was an evil Halfling; Xzar was an evil Human.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Maybe something was said, Possibly I could see blame, rumours, gossip as something that was said
or in deeds it was bred.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned. No Idea on this part yet.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed. Blame and Rumours can both be slander.

With fury unspoken, This part relates to some kind of anger I am guessing.
spirits cannot be tamed.

Not very detailed yet, but Rumours and Blame seem like 2 good words that go with it. I doubt gossip would be the word used.

[FM Cernd]

Can you explain why are you suggesting "rumors"?
There's a single line which could relate to that.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Can you explain why are you suggesting "rumors"?
There's a single line which could relate to that.

In the RP it stated there were rumours about the hidden city.

[FM Xzar]

Well I think Montaron was a halfling? Correct me if I am wrong on that.

Also we know something was said. Rumors could be it, but how would it relate to the second part?
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

I have been thinking about that as well. I think it was Cernd who brought up a good point: These lines are talking about Karma. But I don't know how it would relate.. Maybe it could also be about trust? If I return a favour then trust would be built.

[FM Xzar]

Can you explain why are you suggesting "rumors"?
There's a single line which could relate to that.

Look at the first two lines. It could be about how rumours are created.

[FM Cernd]

In the RP it stated there were rumours about the hidden city.
Now you're really forcing it: "rumours" was suggested as an answer way before the RP reply was posted.

We should look at the whole picture and try to make sense of it, instead of making up an answer and then trying to validate it with random reasons.

[FM Ferengi]

Are the puzzle solutions one word?
In this case, yes.


Are we going to get a list of the players in this room? so we know who we can vote on.
I forgot, but added it now.


Gods, do we get any information about the Inner Sanctum puzzle now, or is it entirely based on clues earned via puzzle solutions
There may or may not be some information, but more will become clear once you find out what the puzzle clues are like.


Can Character Lore be used in the puzzles?
General lore may be used in some, but for the puzzle locations it will be explicitly stated when it is. The majority is based on language and logic alone. Including this one.

[FM Keldorn]

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
This seems to be the origin of what we are searching. The first part sounds like hearsay, while the second part resembles a conspiracy.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
To return a favor you have to receive one first. I think what we are looking for is a certain type of person that is returning a favor, or paying its debts.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
We are looking at the objectives of said person. I don't exactly see in what kind of context I have to put the breakers and slanderers, but it might describe defectors of the Cult of Bhaal.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.
If the person we are looking for is an Assassin, it surely isn't a coldblooded one. The common adjective "silent" in that context might still apply though. These verse could refer to something completely different though. I'm the least sure about this part.

[FM Xzar]

Now you're really forcing it: "rumours" was suggested as an answer way before the RP reply was posted.

We should look at the whole picture and try to make sense of it, instead of making up an answer and then trying to validate it with random reasons.

Now that's pushing it. I could totally see how rumours would fit in even without the RP and it was the first suggestion that made atleast a bit sense and could be partially explained.

[FM Cernd]

Now that's pushing it. I could totally see how rumours would fit in even without the RP and it was the first suggestion that made atleast a bit sense and could be partially explained.

I think that the answer is "drunkard".

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred. <- Drunks say stuff and do stuff.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned. <- Drunk people are always asking for favors and owe payments.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed. <- Drunkards tend to be broken and shameful.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed. <- When people get drunk, they get irascible.

Also, bottles were mentioned in the RP. Could be whiskey bottles?



See what I did there?
Let's get serious, boys and girls.

[FM Xzar]

I think that the answer is "drunkard".

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred. <- Drunks say stuff and do stuff.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned. <- Drunk people are always asking for favors and owe payments.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed. <- Drunkards tend to be broken and shameful.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed. <- When people get drunk, they get irascible.

Also, bottles were mentioned in the RP. Could be whiskey bottles?



See what I did there?
Let's get serious, boys and girls.

Wow. I can't take you seriously, I'm out. G'night.

[FM Casavir]

I have 2 dominant theories in my mind.

1. Karma (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th)
2. Justice (2nd, 3rd, 4th)

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Montaron was a minor character. You would hire him and Xzar in Baldur's Gate to travel to the mines.

In Baldur's Gate 2, you get a quest from Xzar to find Montaron. You find ''Montaron'' polymorphed into a bird, you bring him back to Xzar, but turns up that it wasn't Montaron but a Harper Assassin, who then kills Xzar.
When you revisit the Harper's Headquarters, you can find Montaron's body in a chest.

Not sure if simply a coincidence that FM Xzar (Hello!) is also at this gate with us.

Well reading this and comparing it to Karma I can see. If he was evil then his karma got him killed. Plus the last line referring to spirits untamed is very plausible with karma.

[FM Cernd]

Yeah, as I said, I see something along the lines of reaping what you sow: karma, payback, retribution, etc.
I like it forn an answer, but we should keep looking. It's been like an hour since we started.


Also, as promised: FM Xzar

[FM Keldorn]

My primary guess would be something along "avenger".
The first part describes the origin of the calamity. The second part illustrates how the "avenger" gladly returns the favor. The third part lists his targets, the fourth part part his state of mind.
According to my hypothesis the primary targets are the breakers. They might refer to a bunch of people who broken an oath or conspired against their own circle and broke away from it. This sounds like defecting cultists to me. Sounds all in all like a case of vigilante justice to me.

[FM Cernd]

The fourth paragraph certainly sounds like vengeance to me, but I cannot find a way to link it to the second one, since "favour" implies something which benefits the receiver, and such a thing wouldn't require vengeance.

[FM Cernd]

I'm almost sure that "receiver" isn't the word I was looking for, but you get the idea.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

The fourth paragraph certainly sounds like vengeance to me, but I cannot find a way to link it to the second one, since "favour" implies something which benefits the receiver, and such a thing wouldn't require vengeance.

Well an avenger/ghost wants to get killed. So we do him a favor by killing him then he enacts his vengeance on us.

[FM Montaron]

General lore may be used in some, but for the puzzle locations it will be explicitly stated when it is. The majority is based on language and logic alone. Including this one.

''General'' Lore. And we now have the player list. So that rules the whole character implication out.


My primary guess would be something along "avenger".
The first part describes the origin of the calamity. The second part illustrates how the "avenger" gladly returns the favor. The third part lists his targets, the fourth part part his state of mind.
According to my hypothesis the primary targets are the breakers. They might refer to a bunch of people who broken an oath or conspired against their own circle and broke away from it. This sounds like defecting cultists to me. Sounds all in all like a case of vigilante justice to me.

You know, I was just thinking about something along the lines of ''Revenge''. It kinda does make sense.
Let me think about this some more >.<

[FM Casavir]

The fourth paragraph certainly sounds like vengeance to me, but I cannot find a way to link it to the second one, since "favour" implies something which benefits the receiver, and such a thing wouldn't require vengeance.

On the contrary, I think vengeance is in the wrong direction, keep in mind that vengeance is in fury spoken, I think the answer would be something the opposite of vengeance.

[FM Cernd]

On the contrary, I think vengeance is in the wrong direction, keep in mind that vengeance is in fury spoken, I think the answer would be something the opposite of vengeance.
"With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." sounds to me like someone who has been wronged can only remain silent/calm so long before they seek out revenge on those who do them harm.

Damn that paragraph.

fuck bbcode.

Going out for a couple of hours. I think I'll post before going o bed.

The list so far:
- Karma.
- Avenger.
- Revenge.

Good night.

[FM Montaron]

Are synonyms accepted, or does it have to be a very specific word?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Are synonyms accepted, or does it have to be a very specific word?

Your question displeases me.

[FM Montaron]

Your question displeases me.

Hey, I tried. Can't blame me for that, Bhaal-kun.

[FM Imoen]

I have returned and have just finished pouring over the archives of the discussion that occurred in my absence. I must remember to thank the scribes for their diligence. I believe our two best theories for solutions thus far are:
1. Karma
2. Avenger

I'm inclined more toward Avenger because such a creature has been mentioned by the gods before in their declaration of their will, whilst karma has not.

Before we go any further I must make some inquiries.
What is the purpose of using "-propose solution"? My current understanding is that the volunteer may submit whatever he or she wishes. Can the volunteer only submit solutions that were -proposed? Is the proposed solution chosen via popular vote?

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Player List:
FM Montaron
FM Quayle
FM Keldorn
FM Valygar
FM Cernd
FM Aerie
FM Haer-Dalis
FM Xzar
FM Imoen
FM Tiax
FM Garrick
FM Viconia

Although this doesn't have to do with the riddle I think we can use this. They are likely balancing the amount of scum in every single chat room so a whole room doesn't have a majority of scum going to derail the chat.
1-2 Cult
1 Bhaalspawn
1-2 Neutrals

It is just something to look at when hunting for scum.

Also I feel like Avenger is a really good guess, but I could highly see karma. Only thing though is I haven't seen much references to Karma in the RP's. I'm gonna look for hints/clues towards Avenger or Revenge right now.

[FM Ferengi]

What is the purpose of using "-propose solution"? My current understanding is that the volunteer may submit whatever he or she wishes. Can the volunteer only submit solutions that were -proposed? Is the proposed solution chosen via popular vote?
The purpose is to ensure that the submitted solution is public and so that a distinction can be made between mere brainstorming and a definitive answer a player is proposing.

The volunteer always submits his own proposed solution, not anything else, though he can copy someone else's. If the volunteer proposes no solution, he is always going to be wrong (unless it's a trick question).

If a player refuses to propose a solution you want, it might not be the best idea to vote for them as volunteer. At least if your intention is to actually solve the puzzle...

[FM Tiax]

Greetings, friends. It seems the gods have at last graced us with a divine puzzle.



This puzzle is most perplexing. It does not even ask for an answer. I'm not sure where to begin. Some things I observed:
The rhyme scheme is: AABBCDCD
*It's divided into four 2-line sentences


Not much to go on at all. I'll have to keep mulling it over. Hopefully you lads are more perceptive than I.

this is the same problem I'm having. how can we come up with an answer when we can't see the question?

[FM Imoen]

The purpose is to ensure that the submitted solution is public and so that a distinction can be made between mere brainstorming and a definitive answer a player is proposing.

The volunteer always submits his own proposed solution, not anything else, though he can copy someone else's. If the volunteer proposes no solution, he is always going to be wrong (unless it's a trick question).

If a player refuses to propose a solution you want, it might not be the best idea to vote for them as volunteer. At least if your intention is to actually solve the puzzle...

So it is just for our own benefit in order to organize our thoughts.

In that case:
-Propose Solution

Avenger

[FM Haer-Dalis]

The volunteer always submits his own proposed solution, not anything else, though he can copy someone else's. If the volunteer proposes no solution, he is always going to be wrong (unless it's a trick question).


This seems odd. Unless it's a trick question. We weren't asked a question and the riddle does say unspoken. Possibly a trick?

[FM Tiax]

The first thing which came to my mind was Justice. However, I really need to think about it more.

[FM Imoen]

This seems odd. Unless it's a trick question. We weren't asked a question and the riddle does say unspoken. Possibly a trick?

Perhaps. But I doubt it. I think we should keep this in mind for future puzzles, however.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

I have 2 dominant theories in my mind.

1. Karma (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th)
2. Justice (2nd, 3rd, 4th)

For justice could you elaborate?

Maybe something was said, I can see it here. If you do bad deeds to people like murder/theft you need to face justice.
or in deeds it was bred.

A favour returned, I'm wondering about this for justice.
is a payment well-earned.

Let breakers be broken Justice to murderers-jail/death, Slanderers can be brought to Justice too for the words they use.
and the slanderers shamed.

With fury unspoken, Justice here I can see also. Suppose someone got murdered and they never found the criminal. He was never brought to justice.
spirits cannot be tamed.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

I need to get some sleep. In the morning I will comment more.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Perhaps. But I doubt it. I think we should keep this in mind for future puzzles, however.

Yea since we can quote the god's words from the night chat that is something we might want to bring up during the day.

[FM Valygar]

Hello guys, sorry I was AFK for most of the last IRL day, but I am back.

The lines about returning a favor, receiving payment, and "breakers being broken" made my first guess 'trust'. However, having looked over it again and reading your posts I actually like the answer 'justice' a lot as a preliminary guess (although vengeance is a close second). I think that rhyme-pairs 2 and 3 are applicable to many things, so I think the secret to solving this puzzle will be in looking at 1 and 4. Luckily, we have 48 hours so we can mull over it in our sleep.

I would assume this is not a no-answer question because of "maybe something was said" and because it would be odd to make the first puzzle a trick question.

[FM Imoen]

Hello guys, sorry I was AFK for most of the last IRL day, but I am back.

The lines about returning a favor, receiving payment, and "breakers being broken" made my first guess 'trust'. However, having looked over it again and reading your posts I actually like the answer 'justice' a lot as a preliminary guess (although vengeance is a close second). I think that rhyme-pairs 2 and 3 are applicable to many things, so I think the secret to solving this puzzle will be in looking at 1 and 4. Luckily, we have 48 hours so we can mull over it in our sleep.

I would assume this is not a no-answer question because of "maybe something was said" and because it would be odd to make the first puzzle a trick question.

Trust fits quite well, milord. Except the last line: "With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." doesn't seem to apply to trust.
Just as you said, pairs 1 and 4 (mostly 4, if you ask me) are going to be our primary concern.

I just thought of the word "oath" or "promise" as possible solutions, but just as with trust, they don't really fit with the 4th pair.
Now I'm also questioning "avenger" as a solution. It fits with the 4th pair very well, but not as much with the first one.

Hmm...

What about hatred?


Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.

If someone storms your keep and pillages your town or says that you mother is a vile wench, you might start to hate them

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

An eye for an eye. He who hath wronged me incurs my wrath.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.

Breakers (of promises/trust/possessions) will be broken in return. You spread lies about me, I'll shame you. An eye for an eye again.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

If my hatred is not resolved while I'm alive ("fury unspoken") then I'll haunt you as a spirit.


Thoughts?

[FM Valygar]

OK looking back, I'm definitely going with karma: it makes total sense and it goes along with the "Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed" wordplay very nicely. I think it has a very nice fit, and I am willing to bet that it's the real answer is karma (props to Cernd).

[FM Imoen]

Hello guys, sorry I was AFK for most of the last IRL day, but I am back.

The lines about returning a favor, receiving payment, and "breakers being broken" made my first guess 'trust'. However, having looked over it again and reading your posts I actually like the answer 'justice' a lot as a preliminary guess (although vengeance is a close second). I think that rhyme-pairs 2 and 3 are applicable to many things, so I think the secret to solving this puzzle will be in looking at 1 and 4. Luckily, we have 48 hours so we can mull over it in our sleep.

I would assume this is not a no-answer question because of "maybe something was said" and because it would be odd to make the first puzzle a trick question.

Trust fits quite well, milord. Except the last line: "With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." doesn't seem to apply to trust.
Just as you said, pairs 1 and 4 (mostly 4, if you ask me) are going to be our primary concern.

I just thought of the word "oath" or "promise" as possible solutions, but just as with trust, they don't really fit with the 4th pair.
Now I'm also questioning "avenger" as a solution. It fits with the 4th pair very well, but not as much with the first one.

Hmm...

What about hatred?


Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.

If someone pillages my town or says that my mother is a vile wench, I might start to hate them

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

An eye for an eye. He who hath wronged me incurs my wrath. It's "well-earned" (they deserve it/had it coming/etc.)

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.

Breakers (of promises/trust/possessions) will be broken in return. You spread lies about me, I'll shame you. An eye for an eye again.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

If my hatred is not resolved while I'm alive ("fury unspoken") then I'll haunt you as a spirit.


Thoughts?

[FM Imoen]

It seems the scribes have started falling asleep on the job. They recorded my words twice. No matter. I welcome discussion on them regardless.

[FM Imoen]

OK looking back, I'm definitely going with karma: it makes total sense and it goes along with the "Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed" wordplay very nicely. I think it has a very nice fit, and I am willing to bet that it's the real answer is karma (props to Cernd).

Karma is good, but I think it fits not the 1st pair. One does not "breed" karma. And even putting that aside, karma is achieved through deeds, not through words. So methinks "maybe something was said" would not apply to karma.

[FM Cernd]

Hey. Just one post before going to bed.

While "karma" fits and sounds like a good answer, it's not giing me that "hell, yeah! of course that's the answer!" that I was expecting. But that just might be me and the preconceived ideas that I had.

I'll give another read to the RP posts to see if I can find something.
I was thinking that since Bhaal is evil and stuff, maybe the answers would be a bit darker, but again, maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction there.

See you in some hours. Keep bringing ideas. Let's not just accept the ones proposed so far, but look for others which might fit better.

[FM Cernd]

it's not giving me that "hell, yeah! of course that's the answer!" feeling that I was expecting.*

[FM Imoen]

Hey. Just one post before going to bed.

While "karma" fits and sounds like a good answer, it's not giing me that "hell, yeah! of course that's the answer!" that I was expecting. But that just might be me and the preconceived ideas that I had.

I'll give another read to the RP posts to see if I can find something.
I was thinking that since Bhaal is evil and stuff, maybe the answers would be a bit darker, but again, maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction there.

See you in some hours. Keep bringing ideas. Let's not just accept the ones proposed so far, but look for others which might fit better.

What about my idea? :(

Stray thoughts: All the points I made in favor of hatred could also be applied to vengeance. Particularly with regard to the 'eye for an eye' bits. I also think hatred and vengeance are sufficiently dark enough to fit what Cernd described above. If we end up deciding on revenge as the theme of the riddle, I would rather use the word 'vengeance' for our answer. It seems more apt, somehow. Though since you can't "breed" vengeance, I'm more inclined to my own suggestion of hatred for the time being.

[FM Aerie]

Maybe it is ''Wrath'' one of the deadly sins.

[FM Imoen]

Maybe it is ''Wrath'' one of the deadly sins.

That's not a bad idea at all. Gods discourage sinning by nature. It would be quite fitting for a puzzle to be answered with a sin.

[FM Imoen]

That's not a bad idea at all. Gods discourage sinning by nature. It would be quite fitting for a puzzle to be answered with a sin.

A god's puzzle, no less.

[FM Tiax]

I've taken quite a long look at the puzzle, and I think I've come up with my favourite answer.

Something which I believe is getting overlooked is the riddle's rhyme scheme of AABBCDCD. The importance of this is that the intended reading of the poem could be...
AA BB CDCD

Instead of the way some people have been interpreting it, which is...


AA BB CD CD


This would make "With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." a run-on of the same idea as "Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed." Therefore, my interpretation of each of the sections would be as follows.


Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.

Answer to the riddle is something which can be created by both word or action. Enforces the idea that the answer is an ideology like the ones already suggested (Karma, Vengeance, Trust, ect...)



A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

Doing something good for others will result in them doing good to you. Huge supporter towards Karma being the answer, and doesn't really make sence at all towards Vengeance/Avenger being the answer



Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.


Sinners will be punished by a silent and unstoppable force. Supports Karma and Vengeance. However, since Vengeance was ruled out by the 3rd and 4th line, the most likely answer for me would be Karma

[FM Valygar]

A god's puzzle, no less.

I think it's a legitimate idea to look at the puzzle as being relevant to a wrathful and bloodthirsty Bhaal, but I don't think we should look at is as a hard requirement (especially since this is only a clue or component of the actual, full-on puzzle).


I've taken quite a long look at the puzzle, and I think I've come up with my favourite answer.

Something which I believe is getting overlooked is the riddle's rhyme scheme of AABBCDCD. The importance of this is that the intended reading of the poem could be...
AA BB CDCD

Instead of the way some people have been interpreting it, which is...


AA BB CD CD


This would make "With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." a run-on of the same idea as "Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed." Therefore, my interpretation of each of the sections would be as follows.



Answer to the riddle is something which can be created by both word or action. Enforces the idea that the answer is an ideology like the ones already suggested (Karma, Vengeance, Trust, ect...)




Doing something good for others will result in them doing good to you. Huge supporter towards Karma being the answer, and doesn't really make sence at all towards Vengeance/Avenger being the answer





Sinners will be punished by a silent and unstoppable force. Supports Karma and Vengeance. However, since Vengeance was ruled out by the 3rd and 4th line, the most likely answer for me would be Karma

I disagree with the idea that "a favour returned, is a payment well-earned" cannot apply to vengeance (I would call revenge "returning the favor"). However, that does not change the fact that Karma just seems to make sense: it is a unique, explainable concept that matches the clues of the puzzle very well and I believe this post explains it very well. Of course, we can still dwell on the issue and see if we don't change our minds, but I could safely say that I would be confident in the correctness of this solution.

All that being said, my next question would be "how does karma apply to the bigger puzzle?" I know I will certainly need to rethink my random guess that I may or may not be submitting tonight (depending on role obviously), and I suggest you all do the same.

[FM Imoen]

I've taken quite a long look at the puzzle, and I think I've come up with my favourite answer.

Something which I believe is getting overlooked is the riddle's rhyme scheme of AABBCDCD. The importance of this is that the intended reading of the poem could be...
AA BB CDCD

Instead of the way some people have been interpreting it, which is...


AA BB CD CD


This would make "With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed." a run-on of the same idea as "Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed." Therefore, my interpretation of each of the sections would be as follows.



Answer to the riddle is something which can be created by both word or action. Enforces the idea that the answer is an ideology like the ones already suggested (Karma, Vengeance, Trust, ect...)

I agree that the answer is something abstract/conceptual, but I don't think this couplet applyies to karma. You cannot "breed" karma and you certainly cannot earn it with words.


Doing something good for others will result in them doing good to you. Huge supporter towards Karma being the answer, and doesn't really make sence at all towards Vengeance/Avenger being the answer

I think you're taking the word 'favour' too literally. Don't forget that it could be used in an ironic context. For example if someone punches you in the face, you might say "let me return the favour" before you punch them back. This could just as easily support vengeance as karma, milord.



Sinners will be punished by a silent and unstoppable force. Supports Karma and Vengeance. However, since Vengeance was ruled out by the 3rd and 4th line, the most likely answer for me would be Karma

I don't think karma works with these lines either. I can see how the "spirits" bit might seem fitting given the that the concept of reincarnation is tied to karma, but the word "fury", in particular, stands out to me as ruling karma out of this. Karma is supposed to be fair and just. There is no place for fury in it.

Furthermore, karma is a foreign concept in our world. It does not sit right with me as a word that our gods would wish for us to discover. I agree with Cernd that the answer is almost certainly more sinister than 'karma'.

[FM Imoen]

I think it's a legitimate idea to look at the puzzle as being relevant to a wrathful and bloodthirsty Bhaal, but I don't think we should look at is as a hard requirement (especially since this is only a clue or component of the actual, full-on puzzle).



I disagree with the idea that "a favour returned, is a payment well-earned" cannot apply to vengeance (I would call revenge "returning the favor"). However, that does not change the fact that Karma just seems to make sense: it is a unique, explainable concept that matches the clues of the puzzle very well and I believe this post explains it very well. Of course, we can still dwell on the issue and see if we don't change our minds, but I could safely say that I would be confident in the correctness of this solution.

All that being said, my next question would be "how does karma apply to the bigger puzzle?" I know I will certainly need to rethink my random guess that I may or may not be submitting tonight (depending on role obviously), and I suggest you all do the same.

I believe the gods' own agenda should weigh more heavily on our solution. After all, the gods have taken great pains to create this world that we inhabit. If not for the gods separating the riddle from the rest of their words, I would not have been able to tell it apart from anything else they have said. I cannot envision the answer being any different.

[FM Bevil]

Good Morning puzzlers.

Sorry I am behind on my notes. I will read up now and post the rest of my tables. I would request that someone can post my table during the next day so all the towns have equal information. I suspect there is at least one cultist in here who will share it with his friends.

[FM Valygar]

I suspect there is at least one cultist in here who will share it with his friends.

They couldn't: they don't have night chat yet. Also, I'm sure you'll have the chance to post your table yourself considering the fact that we still have absentee players :P

[FM Bevil]

Day 1 Notes

Notable Claims/Actions
Name Role Claim/Action Post Number
FM Anomen FM Xan is a cultist. 5

FM Kivan FM Sarevok has to be evil. Sniper claim (vigilante?)57, 622

FM Yoshimo Posts a code, edited by Cespenar [70], another code in [77]70, 77

FM Keldorn A heartseeker might be in the game. 86, 425

FM Yeslick Posts a math puzzle. 137

FM Anomen Assumes cult knows their allies. [It was unknown that the cult and harpers do not yet know. Therefore, Anomen might be unlikely to be cult.]

FM Valygar FM Edwin could be a ghost.


FM Faldorn Survivor soft claim. Monk/Ritualist soft claim.339, 285

FM EdwinClericCleric Claim.468
FM SkieVigilante should not shoot cross group. He should shoot a lurker in his puzzle group.584

FM SarevokList of reads.603



Suspects
Name Case against them Post Number Suspected ByDefended By

FM Alora Defensive after 1 vote against her. 19 FM Safana [21], FM Haer-Dalis [33], FM Sarevok [51]FM Valygar [67], FM Kivan [68]

FM Mazzy Tries too hard to act serious and pro-town. 42 FM Anomen [48], FM Yeslick [49], FM Kivan [68], FM Haer-Dalis[73], FM Branwen, FM Valygar [167] [122], FM Coran [261], FM Kivan [474]FM Xzar [82]

FM Yoshimo Hunts for good puzzle solvers. Scum does not want the puzzles solved because the Inner Sanctum will open. 70, 77 FM Kivan [80],


FM Edwin Suggests that we let the cult grow to 9 and not risk player lives to puzzle death. 87 FM Shar-Teel [89], FM Anomen [97], FM Montaron [98], FM Sarevok [114], FM Yeslick [135], FM Aerie [138], FM Alora [141], FM Haer-Dalis [183], FM Xan [245], FM Minsc [265] [266] [267], FM Khalid [275], FM Imoen [391], FM Haer-Dalis [435], FM Kivan [465], FM Safana [484], FM Faldorn [517], FM Jan [520], FM Quayle [533], FM Skie [645], FM Faldorn [661]FM Valygar [167], FM Branwen [accused by 183], FM Valygar [214]

FM Alora A knee-jerk reaction to Edwin’s scummy post that seems insincere. 141 FM Sarevok [157]

FM Jaheira Responds in first person to accusations of cult lurking.170 FM Cernd [173, 177][/

FM Branwen Softclaims bounty hunter and neutral278 FM Haer-Dalis [278], FM Jan [303], FM Korgan [504][/[/

[FM Valygar]

Bevil, I think the notes are great and all, but what is your opinion on Karma as a possible puzzle solution? We seem to be somewhat split at the moment and an another opinion would be nice.

[FM Bevil]

Proposed Solutions

NameProposed SolutionSupporters

FM Bevil Gossip [2]

FM Xzar Rumors [17]

FM Cernd Drunkard [53]

FM Casavir Karma/Justice [55] FM Imoen (Karma) [68], FM Haer-Dalis (Karma)[69], FM Tiax (Justice) [74], FM Valygar (Karma) [81], FM Tiax (Karma) [91]

FM Montaron Revenge [62] FM Imoen (Avenger) [68]

FM Imoen Hatred [82]

FM Aerie Wrath [88]

[FM Bevil]

I have a few comments on the OP.

When I first joined this thread it did not mention Montaron. Instead it had two slots for [player]. I do not think Montaron is important in the context of the riddle.

The original riddle text had the 8 lines of the riddle in italics with "Let breakers be broken" in a different font than the other text. I think that there is a possibility of this line being special or having some special meaning in the unsealing of the main puzzle. Why else would the hosts take great care to make one line of the poem in non italic Arial font when everything else looks the same?

I do think that the answer is Karma.

[FM Bevil]

Also for scum suspects, my personal lead is FM Montaron. He tries too hard to blend and seem townie.
Also FM Skie is a huge suspect of mine since he suggested that the vigilante shoot within their puzzle group. This seems like a way to narrow down possible vigilante targets which reads as scum to me.

I can elaborate more later I guess.

[FM Tiax]

I disagree that Karma cannot have a sinister side. Karma is the belief that performing good deeds will result in good things happening to oneself while performing evil will result in negative repercussions. That includes vengeance against sinners.

[FM Imoen]

I disagree that Karma cannot have a sinister side. Karma is the belief that performing good deeds will result in good things happening to oneself while performing evil will result in negative repercussions. That includes vengeance against sinners.

Karma is not sinister. It is essentially a form of justice. Everyone will get what they deserve. Bad things for bad people, good things for good people. There is nothing sinister about that. Even the negative repercussions for evildoers are devoid of malice, because whatever happens will simply befall them. No one is exacting revenge on them. They'll just... happen to come down with the plague one day. Nature's justice.

[FM Imoen]

By the gods, I am tired. See you on the morrow, my friends.

[FM Quayle]

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.



What's wrong with Malice?

[FM Keldorn]

"Karma" really doesn't sit right for me as solution.
Some parts of the explanation for "Revenge" fit really well with "Avenger". I thought for the second pair as eye for an eye all along but the fourth pair is really fitting considering what the avenger in this game represents: a furious apparition that seeks revenge on its killers. On the other hand the slandering might only work if the conspiracy/betrayal in the first pair twisted the facts and put the avenger in a bad light, i.e. he killed his family and committed suicide afterwards when he was just another victim. Breaker could be put into perspective if the killers swore an oath to the avenger to keep him and his family safe.

What I don't like about my "Avenger" explanation above is that it needs some serious behind the scenes explanation, meaning it only fits if the circumstances are right. I think the actual solution would always apply and not only in certain cases.

[FM Keldorn]

What's wrong with Malice?
Could you explain how you get to this conclusion? Malice only fits the first pair in my opinion.
And did you color the last letters for a reason or just because it looks nice?

[FM Quayle]

Could you explain how you get to this conclusion? Malice only fits the first pair in my opinion.
And did you color the last letters for a reason or just because it looks nice?

Simple. It's broken up in two and two. Continue the first with a sentence and do a turnabout, it becomes Malice.

[FM Quayle]

Simple. It's broken up in two and two. Continue the first with a sentence and do a turnabout, it becomes Malice.

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

Here's half of it simplified. Do the half other if you want to.

[FM Keldorn]

Sorry, but you lost me in between "Continue the first with a sentence" and "do a turnabout".
You suggest splitting the verses as below (rhythm as delimiter) and use the first letters as part of the solution. But where does "ice" come from? I can figure out was a turnabout consists of in this case.

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

[FM Keldorn]

[...] I can't figure out [...]

[FM Ferengi]

Are synonyms accepted, or does it have to be a very specific word?Some synonyms would be accepted, but only if they convey the same meaning as the one that's desired by the puzzle in a strict sense. For instance if there was a riddle that said "something you can sit on that has legs," then "chair" and "bench" would be correct, but "seat" would not. If another line in the riddle said "with space for only one," then bench would no longer be correct either.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Karma is not sinister. It is essentially a form of justice. Everyone will get what they deserve. Bad things for bad people, good things for good people. There is nothing sinister about that. Even the negative repercussions for evildoers are devoid of malice, because whatever happens will simply befall them. No one is exacting revenge on them. They'll just... happen to come down with the plague one day. Nature's justice.

Ok I just woke up. I agree with this post.

@Quayle I can't figure out how you got malice be rearranging the words or whatever either.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

So I was looking at the puzzle and if we believe there are more hints in the puzzle then maybe I have found one?

The second half of the puzzle first letter words spells Laws. If it was meant to be like that then I am thinking Justice might be the word. The first half though is the easier stuff to figure out. Otherwise I don't know what Moai has to do with the puzzle. Just a thought.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

No one is here right now, but I'll check up frequently and I'm going to see if I can do anything else with the letters or figure how you get Malice? out of it.

[FM Cernd]

Sorry, Imoen. I was sleepy and missed your Hatred suggestion. ._.

Bevil: Stop spamming our night chat. We're here to solve puzzles, not to listen to your teories about the day. Also, I was the one who proposed karma. Your lists are not only spammy, but misleading.

Anyway.

- Karma.
- Avenger.
- Vengeance.
- Hatred.
- Justice.
- Wrath.
- Malice.

I don't like malice because of what Cespenar has said. It is a riddle based on language and logic, and not some sort of cryptographic code.

Damn it. This is fun.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Sorry, Imoen. I was sleepy and missed your Hatred suggestion. ._.

Bevil: Stop spamming our night chat. We're here to solve puzzles, not to listen to your teories about the day. Also, I was the one who proposed karma. Your lists are not only spammy, but misleading.

Anyway.

- Karma.
- Avenger.
- Vengeance.
- Hatred.
- Justice.
- Wrath.
- Malice.

I don't like malice because of what Cespenar has said. It is a riddle based on language and logic, and not some sort of cryptographic code.

Damn it. This is fun.

When you read the list we made Avenger just seems to stand out since it isn't like the others. Avenger is a person.

[FM Imoen]

Sorry, Imoen. I was sleepy and missed your Hatred suggestion. ._.

Bevil: Stop spamming our night chat. We're here to solve puzzles, not to listen to your teories about the day. Also, I was the one who proposed karma. Your lists are not only spammy, but misleading.

Anyway.

- Karma.
- Avenger.
- Vengeance.
- Hatred.
- Justice.
- Wrath.
- Malice.

I don't like malice because of what Cespenar has said. It is a riddle based on language and logic, and not some sort of cryptographic code.

Damn it. This is fun.

Don't be so hard on ser Bevil! He is only trying to help! After all, he only has this night to share all of his thoughts with us, and then he must wait a full day before speaking to anyone else. And when he does speak again, it may very well be with a new group of people! No milord, I find Bevil's efforts to be most helpful, because if nothing else, we can be certain that ser Bevil has a good heart. So until the gods see fit to use to give one of our mute adventurers a voice, we know that the words he speaks have a good intention behind them.

I don't think "MAL" or "LaWs" have anything to do with the answer to the puzzle, but I still think malice fits nicely. It manages to convey vengeance, hatred, AND wrath. Now THAT is sinister.

-Propose Solution

Malice

[FM Imoen]

When you read the list we made Avenger just seems to stand out since it isn't like the others. Avenger is a person.

Yes, I no longer think avenger is a fitting solution to this puzzle. Though avengers are certainly a foul creature that may or may not be in our midst... It seems that the solution we seek is not a person, but an idea. I think we can safely rule out avenger as a possibility.

I am now convinced wholeheartedly that malice is the correct answer.

[FM Aerie]

I think someone else should be sent to propose ''Malice''.

[FM Aerie]

FM Quayle Im sure he wont mind proposing malice

[FM Cernd]

When you read the list we made Avenger just seems to stand out since it isn't like the others. Avenger is a person.
Indeed. I feel Avenger is a little off, when compared with the rest of the answers.

Don't be so hard on ser Bevil! He is only trying to help!(...)
I guess I overreacted. I just don't want this to turn into a discussion about the day events.
We had 72 hours for that. This should be used to solve the puzzle and nothing else. We'll have time to point fingers and read players tomorrow.

Malice fits if you look at if from a particular angle, but I still feel like the whole thing is about reaping what you sow or something similar.

[FM Imoen]

I think someone else should be sent to propose ''Malice''.

Someone "else", milord? Else whom?

My first instinct would be to send Viconia, for she is no doubt the least useful person in our group, but to do so would mean a high risk of her not even submitting a solution, which will make this night for naught and it may kill her when instead she could be given a voice. Perhaps by ser Bevil!

I am unsure who we should send for this task.

[FM Cernd]

Especially in the second part: "A favour returned, is a payment well-earned".
That's a whole karma thing, rather than malice. Or maybe I'm missing something.

How does that part fit into "malice" according to you?

[FM Imoen]

Especially in the second part: "A favour returned, is a payment well-earned".
That's a whole karma thing, rather than malice. Or maybe I'm missing something.

How does that part fit into "malice" according to you?

I find it to be quite similar to vengeance, milord.

[FM Cernd]

I find it to be quite similar to vengeance, milord.
Isn't a favor supposed to have good intentions, while malice implies ill ones?

[FM Cernd]

Was thinking about the whole malice and karma deal.
What do you think of "punishment"?

[FM Bevil]

FM Cernd is scummy for trying to silence me. Scum does not want the confirmed town aligned reserves to be helping the adventurers at night since we cannot be killed or targeted. I think my tables are a good way to get the players who have not been posting back up to speed about the game.

I think that while solving the puzzle is important, the night chat should also be used to scum hunt. This chat could also be thought of as a larger Heartwarder chat so I would expect to see people making codes to communicate like they do in other FMs. I do not know how to make the codes but I saw them when reading a past game.

In my opinion vengeance is not silent which is why the solution does not fit. Karma is something silent that random forces of nature enacts making it the better fit.

[FM Bevil]

I think the vengeance does not fit the spirits cannot be tamed part if you interpret spirits as forces of nature. If you interpret spirits as your personal spirits it starts to fit better. Can someone tell me what type of spirits this puzzle means? English is not my first language so maybe I am missing part that will tell what definition of spirits to use.

I do not like punishment since it is not silent. Also punishment is to take spirits not something that "spirits cannot be tamed"

[FM Aerie]

Im starting to think that the answer has something to do with ''justice''. There was a impaled guy in the RP.

[FM Imoen]

FM Cernd is scummy for trying to silence me. Scum does not want the confirmed town aligned reserves to be helping the adventurers at night since we cannot be killed or targeted. I think my tables are a good way to get the players who have not been posting back up to speed about the game.

I think that while solving the puzzle is important, the night chat should also be used to scum hunt. This chat could also be thought of as a larger Heartwarder chat so I would expect to see people making codes to communicate like they do in other FMs. I do not know how to make the codes but I saw them when reading a past game.

In my opinion vengeance is not silent which is why the solution does not fit. Karma is something silent that random forces of nature enacts making it the better fit.

But karma is not furious, ser Bevil.

[FM Cernd]

Im starting to think that the answer has something to do with ''justice''. There was a impaled guy in the RP.

That was a scout sent by the Duke. How is that justice? o.o''

[FM Bevil]

I think of the spirits in acting the karma as furious?

[FM Aerie]

That was a scout sent by the Duke. How is that justice? o.o''

Impalement is a kind of punishment and i think Flaming Fist mercenaries are some kind of law keepers.

[FM Xzar]

While Karma is not a bad idea, I don't think it fits the riddle as a whole. We have to find the idea behind this riddle, the idea that this riddle is trying to tell us. Maybe it could help if we were able to summarize the riddle into one sentence?

[FM Bevil]

Summary of the puzzle:

If someone does something to wrong you what kind of untamed furious retribution is enacted against them?

I guess I can see how karma is not furious enough for the solution.

[FM Cernd]

Maybe it could help if we were able to summarize the riddle into one sentence?
Quite hard to accomplish since we can't even agree on the meaning of the last part.
Also, synthesizing it might change it entirely. It was said that the answer is based on the language and logic. Summarizing itwould change the language and likely lead to wrong answers.

If I had to summarize it, it would be something like this:
"Someone was wronged and then had their revenge".

A is the cause: Something happened.
B & C are about karma/retribution.
D sounds to me like uncontainable wrath or anger.

[FM Aerie]

So what do you think about ''Wrath''? It is one of the deadly sins so it would make sense that a god would have that in a riddle. Wrath could also mean vengeance.

[FM Cernd]

Wrath would be perfect if the riddle consisted of nothing but A & D, but I don't see Wrath fitting in B & C, or at least not as perfectly as it is expected.

I don't know a thing about Baldur's Gate. Is it based on juedo-christian mythology? If so, then the deadly sin theory could fit.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Quite hard to accomplish since we can't even agree on the meaning of the last part.
Also, synthesizing it might change it entirely. It was said that the answer is based on the language and logic. Summarizing itwould change the language and likely lead to wrong answers.

If I had to summarize it, it would be something like this:
"Someone was wronged and then had their revenge".

A is the cause: Something happened.
B & C are about karma/retribution.
D sounds to me like uncontainable wrath or anger.

Your summarization sounds like Justice. If you get murdered and the murder gets sent to court then they get put in jail. Justice. Or Punishment.

[FM Aerie]

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
The reason

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Could mean that the person gets what he deserves

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.

Unsure about this one

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.

Uncontrollable rage

[FM Cernd]

Your summarization sounds like Justice. If you get murdered and the murder gets sent to court then they get put in jail. Justice. Or Punishment.
Yeah. After all, justice is nothing but legalized revenge.

That said, let's not focus in my summary, but in the original text.
Same as Bevil; English isn't my native language, and a lot gets lost in the process of translating my thoughts.


It seems Aerie's reads are similar to mine, so I guess we aren't that lost.

[FM Xzar]

I think we are all on the same track, but it's a pretty wide track and we all are taking different lines, we just need to find the one line that gets us the fastest time (hope that racing reference makes sense? lol).

You are right about focusing on language, I forgot that this was said. Summarizing won't help as much as I thought it could.

[FM Quayle]

FM Quayle Im sure he wont mind proposing malice

If there's no one willing to do so, alright.

Slander; False, malicious statement about someone. Malice, malevolent.

[FM Keldorn]

Looks like the consensus is that we are looking for something along revenge. It's the only thing fitting all four parts. I think we should focus on part 3 and 4 to find the exact specification sought for; especially "fury unspoken" and "breakers be broken". I think those two are the key to solving this.
The last part can also be interpreted as "something has to be said/come to light, before the debts are repaid".

@Quayle: Would you please walk me through the second part of "Malice"?

[FM Bevil]

Oh I just thought of something.

The Thief :
Learns of any puzzle clues the target has collected from volunteering or night actions
Immune to death by puzzle traps. Will always learn clues as “volunteer,” even if the solution given is wrong.

I wonder if there might be multiple thieves based on the wording of this role card.
My guess is that the thieves are hiding in the low posters and want to be sent to be a volunteer.
Quayle is a good thief suspect.
As long as the puzzle gets opened removing night immunity from the Prophet, the town profits.
If I was able to vote, I would vote Quayle to submit tonight's puzzle.

For the puzzle, Justice does not really fit the first or last two lines of the riddle.

[FM Bevil]

Quayle fits as a thief for proposing a wonky half-explained solution that he assures us makes complete sense. All while being a low poster both in the day and night chat so we will think that he is a good person to send to submit a solution. If Quayle is a thief, he does not have to submit the correct answer but he will still get the solution. He can tell us later "Look, I was right! It was malice! You guys just did not understand the Continue with the First Sentence and do a Turnabout."

Would you think that the Prophet would try to recruit a thief?

[FM Cernd]

I think we are all on the same track, but it's a pretty wide track and we all are taking different lines, we just need to find the one line that gets us the fastest time (hope that racing reference makes sense? lol).

Agreed. We need to start checking each proposed answer against every sentence in the riddle and remove those which don't fit every part of it.

[FM Cernd]

The last part can also be interpreted as "something has to be said/come to light, before the debts are repaid".

That's an interesting approach. Worth of giving it some thought.

[FM Valygar]

I wonder if there might be multiple thieves based on the wording of this role card.
My guess is that the thieves are hiding in the low posters and want to be sent to be a volunteer.
Quayle is a good thief suspect.
As long as the puzzle gets opened removing night immunity from the Prophet, the town profits.
If I was able to vote, I would vote Quayle to submit tonight's puzzle.

Absolutely not: even now, I would not trade the Prophet's night immunity being removed for 3 KPN if the thief opens the sanctum. Although the cult would not be able to recruit, I think 3 KPN (not to mention a night chat) would be far more dangerous, especially if they are allowed to convert members before it happens. This is only true if someone other than the thief (preferably the duke, so he can receive the night vest) is allowed to open the sanctum.

I still don't entirely agree with the 'sinister' path of logic: although I will consider other answers, I think karma still fits well. I certainly don't agree with 'malice': it makes no sense in the context of lines 3-6 (which suggest reciprocation). The thing that Keldorn said about the last part, however, actually kinda appealed to me: it made me think of trust, but more specifically when trust is broken which can only be repaired by 'forgiveness' (which, sadly, doesn't really fit the puzzle as a whole).

[FM Valygar]

Actually, I have another theory (which may or may not have been inspired by someone): try "friendship":

Maybe something was said,
Starting up a conversation

or in deeds it was bred.
A random act of kindness can lead to a friendship

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
Friends help each other and can expect the other to do the same

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.
I don't quite know how to explain this one, but imagine breaking the trust of your friend or trying to end a long friendship: they could get pretty mad, or they could just walk away and be 'silently furious' at you.

[FM Casavir]

I've reviewed the day chat and I have a question for some players in this group.

@FM Cernd, FM Haer-Dalis, FM Keldorn, FM Xzar

If you were elected to volunteer what solution would be proposed.

Thank you for your patience, this will be explained shortly.

[FM Cernd]

I've reviewed the day chat and I have a question for some players in this group.

@FM Cernd, FM Haer-Dalis, FM Keldorn, FM Xzar

If you were elected to volunteer what solution would be proposed.

Thank you for your patience, this will be explained shortly.

Too early to give you a straight answer: As I've said, I really think that is has to do with karma/retribution/revenge or something along those lines, but I'm still not entirely convinced by any of the proposed answers.

What's the English term for this...? Tunnel vision? I think I'm suffering from that.
Will go have some drinks later tonight. I hope it helps clear my mind so I can find a different approach. At this moment, I'm kind of blocked and while I can discuss the proposed theories, I just can't seem to be able to come up with new answers.

There are still some 30 hours left. I hope we'll be able to come to a consensus by the end of the night.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

I've reviewed the day chat and I have a question for some players in this group.

@FM Cernd, FM Haer-Dalis, FM Keldorn, FM Xzar

If you were elected to volunteer what solution would be proposed.

Thank you for your patience, this will be explained shortly.

I would go with Justice or Karma as of now if I was elected. Has anyone thought the word could be "Payback"

[FM Haer-Dalis]

"Payback"

Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
-Deeds part stands out with Payback. Someone had to have done something.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
-A favour returned. Payback that someone deserves.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
-Payback works here too. Someone hits you and you hit them back. Someone curses at you and your curse back.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.
-Wondering about this one.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Quayle fits as a thief for proposing a wonky half-explained solution that he assures us makes complete sense. All while being a low poster both in the day and night chat so we will think that he is a good person to send to submit a solution. If Quayle is a thief, he does not have to submit the correct answer but he will still get the solution. He can tell us later "Look, I was right! It was malice! You guys just did not understand the Continue with the First Sentence and do a Turnabout."

Would you think that the Prophet would try to recruit a thief?

This is interesting. I had Quayle pegged down as a neutral and you come with the idea of him being a thief. Hmmm....

[FM Casavir]

Friendship provoked an interesting perspective, I doubt it to the be the answer, but It bring me to "Love".

Please discuss.

[FM Xzar]

Love is an interesting idea, but I don't think it quite fits. Of course you could come up with fitting explanations for the lines, but I feel like it would be too farfetched.

[FM Casavir]

Love is an interesting idea, but I don't think it quite fits. Of course you could come up with fitting explanations for the lines, but I feel like it would be too farfetched.

On the contrary the only part that doesn't seem to quite fit is "Slanders be shamed".

[FM Imoen]

Absolutely not: even now, I would not trade the Prophet's night immunity being removed for 3 KPN if the thief opens the sanctum. Although the cult would not be able to recruit, I think 3 KPN (not to mention a night chat) would be far more dangerous, especially if they are allowed to convert members before it happens. This is only true if someone other than the thief (preferably the duke, so he can receive the night vest) is allowed to open the sanctum.

I still don't entirely agree with the 'sinister' path of logic: although I will consider other answers, I think karma still fits well. I certainly don't agree with 'malice': it makes no sense in the context of lines 3-6 (which suggest reciprocation). The thing that Keldorn said about the last part, however, actually kinda appealed to me: it made me think of trust, but more specifically when trust is broken which can only be repaired by 'forgiveness' (which, sadly, doesn't really fit the puzzle as a whole).

I think you misunderstood the way the thief works, milord.


If the “winner’s” role is Thief, they will steal the Dagger of Bhaal and incur the wrath of his Cult, giving them up to 3 night kills instead of 1 the first night after the sanctum is opened. Each must be performed by an individual assassin.

If the thief solves the riddle, the Cult of Bhaal will get 2 extra night kills. So if the riddle is solved by day 4, even if it is the thief who solves it, the town will benefit. That may be counter-intuitive so I shall explain:

If no one solves the main puzzle, the Inner Sanctum will open on day 7. This means a maximum of 6 nights of recruiting for the Cult of Bhaal. Solving the puzzle by day 4 would prevent 3 recruits. 3 recruits = -3 town, +3 cult. On night 4 (if the thief solved the puzzle) the Cult of Bhaal would get 2 aditional kills for the night, or -2 town (total of -3 with the Cult of Bhaal's factional kill). And that's only if the Cult of Bhaal has enough assassins to perform all the kills individually. Which they may very well not if we've stopped them from recruiting more than 3 members (my guess is that their hidden role is a Quartermaster who will no doubt change some of their assassins into power roles by the time the Inner Sanctum opens).

I don't think the thief is our enemy. Though we obviously would prefer not to to give the Cult of Bhaal the ability to kill more of our brethren, if we must sacrifice a few for the good of many, then so be it.

[FM Cernd]

I don't think "Love" fits because of the "favour returned..." part: You don't love people just because they love you back, and the riddle sounds to me like some sort of cause-effect scenario where someone does something and then gets something (whan they deserve) in return, that's why I'm still thinking more of a revenge scenario.

[FM Cernd]

I don't think the thief is our enemy. Though we obviously would prefer not to to give the Cult of Bhaal the ability to kill more of our brethren, if we must sacrifice a few for the good of many, then so be it.

Agreed. Three kills in one night are way better than multiple nights with covnersions. There's also the fact that the cult will not only kill town (or at least we can't be sure about that): they could send an assasin to die to a veteran, another to kill the ghost, etc.

If you ask me, I goth a thief vibe from Jaheira.
But please, let's not get distracted with that: let's solve the puzzle, then we can spend the remaining of the night talking about anything you want.

[FM Valygar]

Oh, my bad Imoen: the 'first night' thing never fully registered to me I guess. In that case, I reciprocate my previous statement and agree that a thief who could open the sanctum early is our friend.

I think the "favour returned' thing could potentially apply to love if you look at it from a trust standpoint.

Can someone please compile a list of all proposed (not just the formally proposed ones, but also the ones that people have suggested without using -propose) solutions? I would do so myself but I am on my phone at the moment.

[FM Valygar]

reciprocate

Retract: I don't know why I said reciprocate

[FM Keldorn]

even now, I would not trade the Prophet's night immunity being removed for 3 KPN if the thief opens the sanctum.
Really? You would say no if the Thief could open the Sanctum right now? I think it depends on how much faster the Sanctum can be opened. If it is two nights earlier I would definitely be all for it. According to my expectations that would be by night 2.


If you were elected to volunteer what solution would be proposed.
I don't have a solution I would put my life behind right now. I'm fairly certain that it is something revenge themed, but none of the proposed answers are satisfying to me. If I was forced to submit something I would probably go for "Retribution" for now.

I don't see "Friendship" or "Love" working:
Maybe something was said,
or in deeds it was bred.
The second verse has a negative connotation in my opinion, mainly due to the use of "bred". It suggests evil intent.

A favour returned,
is a payment well-earned.
This works with friendship, but not with love. Love isn't about exchanging favors, but about unconditional giving.

Let breakers be broken
and the slanderers shamed.
I don't see how friendship or love can be the source of slander or how to put breakers into context.

With fury unspoken,
spirits cannot be tamed.
Most of the time the anger at your friend or beloved is mended over time. This is clearly not the case in this situation.

There were quite a lot of updates and clarifications already, but I don't feels like deleting what I typed up. Just know that I took note of any earlier posts and don't be bothered by it.

[FM Cernd]

Can someone please compile a list of all proposed (not just the formally proposed ones, but also the ones that people have suggested without using -propose) solutions?

Might be missing a couple:

- Karma.
- Avenger.
- Vengeance.
- Hatred.
- Justice.
- Wrath.
- Malice.
- Punishment.
- Payback.
- Friendship.
- Love.

[FM Tiax]

Looks like the consensus is that we are looking for something along revenge. It's the only thing fitting all four parts. I think we should focus on part 3 and 4 to find the exact specification sought for; especially "fury unspoken" and "breakers be broken". I think those two are the key to solving this.
The last part can also be interpreted as "something has to be said/come to light, before the debts are repaid".


I had not thought of that. Interesting idea.

[FM Imoen]

Might be missing a couple:

- Karma Isn't "bred". Not earned through words. "fury" doesn't apply.
- Avenger Is a person. We're looking for a concept/idea.
- Vengeance I think this is on the right track, but I don't think you "breed" vengeance either.
- Hatred Plausible, but not a perfect solution
- Justice Once again, not "bred". I think that word is key.
- Wrath Plausible
- Malice Plausible
- Punishment "bred" once more. I also don't see "fury". This is too similar to justice.
- Payback[s] Vengeance encompasses this and is a more sinister (and thus, more fitting in my opinion) word
- [s]Friendship "bred"
- Love"bred" "favour returned/payment well-earned" "fury unspoken". None of these apply to love.

Edited with my thoughts on what can be ruled out and why.

This leaves us with:
Hatred
Wrath
Malice

[FM Imoen]

My difficulty is with reconciling the first and fourth pairs. I can think of several things that fit the first 3 pairs, but that don't seem to fit with fury and spirits.

[FM Cernd]

Edited with my thoughts on what can be ruled out and why.

This leaves us with:
Hatred
Wrath
Malice

Once again, all of those would be perfect if we only had A & D, while the rest seem to fit perfectly for B & C.

We have a set of emotions: Wrath, hatred, malice, love, etc.
And a group of actions or situations which result from those emotions: Vengeance, payback, punishment, friendship.

is there a single word which can express both?

Also, I was thinking of the riddle as a short tale:

We have the "Once upon a time" part: Maybe something was said, or in deeds it was bred.
Then we have the body of the story, where all the action happens: A favour returned, is a payment well-arned. Let breakers be broken and the slanderers shamed.
And finally the moral: With fury unspoken, spirits cannot be tamed.

i'd also like to know what everyone is understanding by the "spirits" part: I'm interpreting it in the psyche/soul sense, not in a supernatural sense (spectre, wraith, etc).

[FM Xzar]

I'm understanding spirits as people, so pretty much the same as your psyche/soul.

[FM Casavir]

Might be missing a couple:

- Karma Not earned through words. "fury" doesn't apply.
- Avenger Is a person. We're looking for a concept/idea.
- Vengeance
- Hatred
- Justice
- Wrath
- Malice
- Punishment
- Payback
- Friendship
- Love "favour returned/payment well-earned"

I think you guys are reading to much into word choice, I highly doubt the choice of the word bred was intended to provide a negative connotation. I believe it was chosen in the name of poetry, while I agree it would be acceptable to use it to support negative terms. I don't believe it is appropriate to exclude positive concepts on its premises alone.

[FM Imoen]

I think you guys are reading to much into word choice, I highly doubt the choice of the word bred was intended to provide a negative connotation. I believe it was chosen in the name of poetry, while I agree it would be acceptable to use it to support negative terms. I don't believe it is appropriate to exclude positive concepts on its premises alone.

I believe you are mistaken, ser Casavir. I don't think we're reading too much into the words at all. It is a puzzle of language and logic. Words are everything.

[FM Casavir]

I believe you are mistaken, ser Casavir. I don't think we're reading too much into the words at all. It is a puzzle of language and logic. Words are everything.

Propose a synonym to "bred" that rhymes with "said" and I will consider this remark.

[FM Casavir]

Are reserves votes counted when determining volunteers?

My understanding is reserves cannot be volunteered, is this correct?

[FM Ferengi]

Are reserves votes counted when determining volunteers?

My understanding is reserves cannot be volunteered, is this correct?
Correct, and they also cannot vote.

[FM Imoen]

Propose a synonym to "bred" that rhymes with "said" and I will consider this remark.

But that's just it; it doesn't matter. The word "bred" conveyed the meaning the gods wanted. That is why they chose that word. And that is why we must consider it when deciding upon the best solution to this puzzle.

[FM Viconia]

i have no idea what to do in this puzzle lol

[FM Valygar]

I believe we are focusing on an overly negative connotation of the word 'bred': it does not have to be sinister in nature, but can refer to the origin of anything good or bad. That being said, I think you can still rule out things like 'justice' if you're looking at the word 'bred' closely ('bred' seems as if it could refer to both the deed or the something that was said, and justice is not 'bred' that way), but I would not be so quick to rule things like karma or friendship on that logic. Also, I feel like people are taking the word fury too much at face value: just because the word 'fury' is applied in the puzzle does not mean that the answer to the puzzle must be inherently tied to fury.

[FM Cernd]

Going out for some drinks.

Will be back later or tomorrow.
Please start thinking who would you like to send to solve the puzzle in case that we don't come to a consensus.

I was initially going with Xzar, since I found his few posts in the daychat rather scummy, but at least he tried to help solving this. I think he posted more here than in the daychat.

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind Viconia dying to a trap, to a bus or to Cancer. She's perhaps the most useless non-inactive player, both in the day and night chats.

FM Viconia

Later.

[FM Imoen]

I believe we are focusing on an overly negative connotation of the word 'bred': it does not have to be sinister in nature, but can refer to the origin of anything good or bad. That being said, I think you can still rule out things like 'justice' if you're looking at the word 'bred' closely ('bred' seems as if it could refer to both the deed or the something that was said, and justice is not 'bred' that way), but I would not be so quick to rule things like karma or friendship on that logic. Also, I feel like people are taking the word fury too much at face value: just because the word 'fury' is applied in the puzzle does not mean that the answer to the puzzle must be inherently tied to fury.

Forgive me, milord but while the nature of words (ie. "bred" as sinister) are up for debate, the words themselves are most certainly not. The gods devised this puzzle themselves. Why would the gods, in their infinite wisdom, put any word in the puzzle that was not essential? If the word 'fury' was not necessary in order for us to solve this puzzle, the gods could have left the last pair of lines out of it completely.

So yes, I believe the solution must be intertwined with fury, though I know not how.

[FM Valygar]

So yes, I believe the solution must be intertwined with fury, though I know not how.

I would assert that the word 'fury' can be significant in the puzzle in other ways without the answer having to relate to being furious (hatred, malice, vengeance, etc.). There was Keldorn's idea about the last lines referring to how spirits cannot be tamed so long as certain words remain unspoken (which does not require the answer to be inherently related to fury), and there are also answers which describe a state where the person could be furious under certain circumstances, but not others (ie they are happy when the favor is returned, but they are furious when 'it' is broken or slandered).

[FM Casavir]

Forgive me, milord but while the nature of words (ie. "bred" as sinister) are up for debate, the words themselves are most certainly not. The gods devised this puzzle themselves. Why would the gods, in their infinite wisdom, put any word in the puzzle that was not essential? If the word 'fury' was not necessary in order for us to solve this puzzle, the gods could have left the last pair of lines out of it completely.

So yes, I believe the solution must be intertwined with fury, though I know not how.

I'm not debating the meaning of the word, I entirely believe they chose he word bred for its DEFINITION, but I highly doubt they chose it for its CONNOTATION. The definition of bred is "Reared in a specific environment or way". The connotation that has been proposed is that of a malicious nature, although this word is commonly used in that fashion it is not required to do so, the use of the word bred therefore should not require that our solution be of a malicious nature as some have suggested.

[FM Imoen]

I would assert that the word 'fury' can be significant in the puzzle in other ways without the answer having to relate to being furious (hatred, malice, vengeance, etc.). There was Keldorn's idea about the last lines referring to how spirits cannot be tamed so long as certain words remain unspoken (which does not require the answer to be inherently related to fury), and there are also answers which describe a state where the person could be furious under certain circumstances, but not others (ie they are happy when the favor is returned, but they are furious when 'it' is broken or slandered).

Certain words... of fury remain unspoken, you mean. Again, I must insist that in a language puzzle the language is important. If the gods mean "words unspoken" the puzzle would say "words unspoken". But it doesn't it says fury unspoken. Which implies words, but specifies fury.

And it could be a "state" as you say, but there is no "state of fury" involving karma. I think everyone who is pushing for karma as the solution is bending the puzzle to fit the answer instead of the other way around.


I'm not debating the meaning of the word, I entirely believe they chose he word bred for its DEFINITION, but I highly doubt they chose it for its CONNOTATION. The definition of bred is "Reared in a specific environment or way". The connotation that has been proposed is that of a malicious nature, although this word is commonly used in that fashion it is not required to do so, the use of the word bred therefore should not require that our solution be of a malicious nature as some have suggested.

Why not for its connotation? You recognize that the gods wrote the entire puzzle, right? Which means if they want that definition, but not that connotation, they could easily have written the previous line so that it ended with, say, "worn" and then used the word "born" instead of "bred". Or even rewritten the lines so that the second line didn't end in born, so they could use it in the middle of the line, then end the line with another word that rhymes with "said". But they didn't. So yes, I think the connotation is important, especially since it is consistent with the tone of the entire second half of the riddle.

[FM Valygar]

And it could be a "state" as you say, but there is no "state of fury" involving karma. I think everyone who is pushing for karma as the solution is bending the puzzle to fit the answer instead of the other way around.

So be it: I still think karma makes sense, but if no one else supports my view then there is no reason for me to dwell on it any longer. I'm still not on board with the 'sinister' prerequisite, though.

Another solution that could be possible is "oath" (which goes along very nicely with the "breakers be broken" part), although I could only see the 'deeds' part working if you consider why oaths are made.

[FM Xzar]

So be it: I still think karma makes sense, but if no one else supports my view then there is no reason for me to dwell on it any longer. I'm still not on board with the 'sinister' prerequisite, though.

Another solution that could be possible is "oath" (which goes along very nicely with the "breakers be broken" part), although I could only see the 'deeds' part working if you consider why oaths are made.

Funny, I also thought of oath but dismissed it because I can't see it really fitting, it just sprung to mind.

On another note, it seems that a little bit of RP was changed recently, but it's a small thing.
From:

The gate is sealed however. And when Montaron touches it, the walls start to hum and the satyr’s eyes begin to glow. The gate “speaks” to you.
to

The gate is sealed however. And when Montaron touches it, the walls start to hum and the gargoyle’s eyes begin to glow. The gate “speaks” to you.

I just found it weird that it was important enough to be changed.

[FM Keldorn]

Will there be any distinction in the RP between a night immune volunteer that triggered the traps (but survived due immunity) and non-immune one who got lucky and evaded the traps after submitting a wrong answer?

[FM Casavir]

Funny, I also thought of oath but dismissed it because I can't see it really fitting, it just sprung to mind.

On another note, it seems that a little bit of RP was changed recently, but it's a small thing.
From:

to


I just found it weird that it was important enough to be changed.

I requested it, it was bugging me :P

[FM Imoen]

I would assert that the word 'fury' can be significant in the puzzle in other ways without the answer having to relate to being furious (hatred, malice, vengeance, etc.). There was Keldorn's idea about the last lines referring to how spirits cannot be tamed so long as certain words remain unspoken (which does not require the answer to be inherently related to fury), and there are also answers which describe a state where the person could be furious under certain circumstances, but not others (ie they are happy when the favor is returned, but they are furious when 'it' is broken or slandered).


So be it: I still think karma makes sense, but if no one else supports my view then there is no reason for me to dwell on it any longer. I'm still not on board with the 'sinister' prerequisite, though.

Another solution that could be possible is "oath" (which goes along very nicely with the "breakers be broken" part), although I could only see the 'deeds' part working if you consider why oaths are made.


Funny, I also thought of oath but dismissed it because I can't see it really fitting, it just sprung to mind.

On another note, it seems that a little bit of RP was changed recently, but it's a small thing.
From:

to


I just found it weird that it was important enough to be changed.

Oath came to my mind as well. Immediately followed by vow, which I thought more specific to this riddle somehow. I still don't think it fits, however.


Will there be any distinction in the RP between a night immune volunteer that triggered the traps (but survived due immunity) and non-immune one who got lucky and evaded the traps after submitting a wrong answer?

If any of you lads is up for a friendly wager, I'd happily bet everything I own that the answer to this question is no.

[FM Casavir]

Which means if they want that definition, but not that connotation, they could easily have written the previous line so that it ended with, say, "worn" and then used the word "born" instead of "bred".

I understand the point here, and I somewhat agree with it, but there appears to be some confusion about what the word bred means. The word bred by no means corresponds to being born, but rather the movement of one state to another by means of progression. The word bred more closely corresponds with nurture and cultivate than the word born. Maybe this meaning will shed greater light on how some of our selections can be "bred".

[FM Imoen]

No idea why the scribes incuded that first declaration from ser Valygar; I had no intention of referencing it. Please disregard, my friends.

[FM Montaron]

Home sweet home. Apologies for the inactivity during the day; I was out of town for the day.
I'll get up to speed.

[FM Imoen]

I understand the point here, and I somewhat agree with it, but there appears to be some confusion about what the word bred means. The word bred by no means corresponds to being born, but rather the movement of one state to another by means of progression. The word bred more closely corresponds with nurture and cultivate than the word born. Maybe this meaning will shed greater light on how some of our selections can be "bred".

That, ser Casavir, depends upon the context in which "born" is being used. In the same way that you could say a friendship was born out of mutual trust, or that trust is born out of mutual understanding, you could also say that certain words or actions bred trust or friendship. I believe the definition of bred we should be using is "caused or was the source of" though "raised" is also plausible.

[FM Casavir]

That, ser Casavir, depends upon the context in which "born" is being used. In the same way that you could say a friendship was born out of mutual trust, or that trust is born out of mutual understanding, you could also say that certain words or actions bred trust or friendship. I believe the definition of bred we should be using is "caused or was the source of" though "raised" is also plausible.

I guess we are on the same page for the meaning, but I don't understand how that meaning restricts in particular "Love","Friendship", and "Justice".

[FM Imoen]

I guess we are on the same page for the meaning, but I don't understand how that meaning restricts in particular "Love","Friendship", and "Justice".

Perhaps you could argue love and friendship, but justice is not bred. I can think of no one would ever say "a brigand has been apprehended and justice was bred" or anything similar. It simply doesn't work.

In the case of friendship and love, I still don't find such a sentence pleasing to my ear or on my tongue, but I'll grant you that it may be an issue of my personal taste rather than grammar. However, neither fits with the other lines of the riddle "favour returned/payment earned" doesn't work. You cannot "break" love or friendship (break a heart, perhaps, or a bond, but not love itself), and once again, the ever problematic fury and spirits do not apply.

[FM Imoen]

Gods, grant me insight. If a thief is sent to propose a solution to a puzzle, it will receive the clue regardless of what answer it provides. If this occurs, is that puzzle then considered solved for the purposes of unlocking more puzzle locations? Or will the thief receive the clue from it and leave it unsolved such that someone will still have to submit the correct answer to the puzzle before any new puzzle locations are unlocked?

[FM Valygar]

I don't think we're going to be coming up with an answer we're 100% confident with in the remaining time... if I'm not mistaken Imoen, you would like to send Quayle the prospective thief so that no one dies. If so, I support this at this moment.

[FM Casavir]

Perhaps you could argue love and friendship, but justice is not bred. I can think of no one would ever say "a brigand has been apprehended and justice was bred" or anything similar. It simply doesn't work.

In the case of friendship and love, I still don't find such a sentence pleasing to my ear or on my tongue, but I'll grant you that it may be an issue of my personal taste rather than grammar. However, neither fits with the other lines of the riddle "favour returned/payment earned" doesn't work. You cannot "break" love or friendship (break a heart, perhaps, or a bond, but not love itself), and once again, the ever problematic fury and spirits do not apply.

I totally agree that love and friendship seem a little weird for favour returned/payment earned. I think the reason fury and spirits and ever problematic is the way it is being interpreted. Firstly most people seem to ignore part that can significantly change the meaning it is not "fury unspoken" but "With fury unspoken", what if that means it is not spoken in anger, and "spirits" is wildly suggested to be soul/personality, but could it not just as well be "spirits" as in "A mood or an emotional state"?

[FM Imoen]

I don't think we're going to be coming up with an answer we're 100% confident with in the remaining time... if I'm not mistaken Imoen, you would like to send Quayle the prospective thief so that no one dies. If so, I support this at this moment.

If the thief is in this chat, I would like to send him/her, yes. However I don't know that Qayle is the thief. In fact, I my guess is that ser Keldorn is the thief. But regardless, I invite the thief (if any) to claim. As I said before I do not see you as an enemy and I think we could have a mutually beneficial relationship, if you are willing.

But in case the thief is not here or is not forthcoming, then we should send someone who hasn't contributed much. Though I would prefer not to do this, since I know there are plenty of spirits without a vessel just waiting for the gods to give them a body from which to speak with us during the day, I would rather risk their lives than the life of someone who has already participated in the discussion.

In case we can't decide who the thief is in order to send them, we can instead send either Garrick (has this guy even posted once during the entire game?) or Viconia (posted... twice? and hasn't said anything of value either time). I'm leaning toward Viconia since she has spoken, thus revealing that she is aware that we are having an important discussion and but she still chooses not to participate, whereas Garrick, having said nothing, is probably just an empty vessel waiting for the gods to allow a spirit to use it as their own.

[FM Casavir]

Speaking of which I should definitely be vouched for so I can join you on the other side!

[FM Tiax]

I don't think we're going to be coming up with an answer we're 100% confident with in the remaining time... if I'm not mistaken Imoen, you would like to send Quayle the prospective thief so that no one dies. If so, I support this at this moment.

I agree that we are unlikely to have a sudden brainwave within the next 20 hours. my vote would be to make the scummiest person here suggest the most popular answer. Keldor's earlier suggestion about the meaning of the last 2 lines is making me lean more towards Revenge, so that is probably my top choice at the moment.

[FM Keldorn]

If the thief is in this chat, I would like to send him/her, yes. [...] In fact, I my guess is that ser Keldorn is the thief.
I would rather sit this one out. Even so I think that "Revenge" is close to the answer it's still not something I would put my life behind. But if you ask me it is the best answer we have so far.

I would like to see Viconia brave the dangers of the gargoyle to compensate for her lack of support.

[FM Imoen]

I would rather sit this one out. Even so I think that "Revenge" is close to the answer it's still not something I would put my life behind. But if you ask me it is the best answer we have so far.

I would like to see Viconia brave the dangers of the gargoyle to compensate for her lack of support.

You deny that you are the thief, then? Hmm... Sending the thief would be ideal... But if no one will claim, since we cannot be certain, and there is no reason to risk town lives on conjecture, we might as well send lady Viconia so that we do not risk anyone of value. Who knows? Perhaps we'll get lucky and lady Viconia will turn out to be the thief. Maybe if she has a clue she will be more inclined to participate in future puzzle discussions.

FM Viconia

[FM Keldorn]

Is there a scenario where a fireball looms over a dead body, killing everybody visiting it?

FM Viconia

[FM Imoen]

Is there a scenario where a fireball looms over a dead body, killing everybody visiting it?

FM Viconia

...What?

[FM Montaron]

Ack. I wish the puzzle wasn't language related. It is definitely not my forte.

I still think Revenge is what I would go for. Problem with this is, more than one solution could be plausible, yet only one is right. I dislike this. :(

FM Viconia

[FM Quayle]

FM Viconia

[FM Aerie]

seems pretty dumb to vote on someone that isn't going to propose a solution. We are guaranteed to fail if we vote on viconia.

[FM Quayle]

seems pretty dumb to vote on someone that isn't going to propose a solution. We are guaranteed to fail if we vote on viconia.

That's true. If Malice is what everyone feels for, I can do it.

[FM Cernd]

seems pretty dumb to vote on someone that isn't going to propose a solution. We are guaranteed to fail if we vote on viconia.
As I said: unless we're 100% sure of an answer, we'd rather send a random scum to die to the traps.
This is not dumb at all. We'll discuss the riddle tomorrow in the daychat and hopefully have an answer by the second night. For now, let's just send Viconia to die. She's worthless.

[FM Xzar]

So guys, I just thought of 'Betrayal' and would like to know what you think about it.
Literal spoiler, think about it first.
I don't think it quite fits if we keep in mind that this is a language puzzle.. but I feel that it'a close

and

FM Viconia

[FM Xzar]

Also I don't know how to use spoiler. Dang mobile.

[FM Ferengi]

Will there be any distinction in the RP between a night immune volunteer that triggered the traps (but survived due immunity) and non-immune one who got lucky and evaded the traps after submitting a wrong answer?
No.


Gods, grant me insight. If a thief is sent to propose a solution to a puzzle, it will receive the clue regardless of what answer it provides. If this occurs, is that puzzle then considered solved for the purposes of unlocking more puzzle locations? Or will the thief receive the clue from it and leave it unsolved such that someone will still have to submit the correct answer to the puzzle before any new puzzle locations are unlocked?
If a thief is sent and proposes a wrong answer, they will get the clue, but the puzzle remains unsolved and will remain available.


Is there a scenario where a fireball looms over a dead body, killing everybody visiting it?
Fireballs, attunements and curses left on a person who dies would be dismissed automatically.

REMINDER: Deadline to send in night actions is 2 hours before night ending.

[FM Aerie]

As I said: unless we're 100% sure of an answer, we'd rather send a random scum to die to the traps.
This is not dumb at all. We'll discuss the riddle tomorrow in the daychat and hopefully have an answer by the second night. For now, let's just send Viconia to die. She's worthless.

I would rather send in someone with a solution so we know what to not try next night if we are wrong. Viconia might even be replaced tomorrow.

[FM Aerie]

Viconia please type -propose solution ''Vengeance'' when you see this. Then you will at least have a chance.

[FM Aerie]

-propose solution
Vengeance

I rather volunteer myself if you are going to waste this night on nothing.

[FM Quayle]

I rather volunteer myself if you are going to waste this night on nothing.

You're not that scummy to go waste, are you?

[FM Casavir]

My personal opinion is that you volunteer cernd.

[FM Valygar]

I would rather send in someone with a solution so we know what to not try next night if we are wrong. Viconia might even be replaced tomorrow.

Viconia has posted a total of twice this entire game. I do not think we are confident in any answer, so I share the opinion that we should send someone expendable and altogether useless, and wait for further input from the other 2/3 of players so that we can be sure we have it right when it's someone active. If Viconia does send in a solution, she can just include it in her last will.

FM Viconia

[FM Casavir]

To be perfectly honest I think you guys are hopping on a scum beneficial train, carefully consider both the result of the action as well as the credibility of the person who presented it.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

To be perfectly honest I think you guys are hopping on a scum beneficial train, carefully consider both the result of the action as well as the credibility of the person who presented it.

I've been reading and I agree with this. Ask yourselves a question. Is it worth possibly killing a town member who doesn't give an answer because she lurks? Then to follow that up. Is it worth having to spend another night trying to get the same answer suggested because you don't know if it works or not? Using the puzzle just to kill someone isn't worth it unless they actually propose the answer. Every night we take at these puzzles is another night the cult can recruit. So if you guys are going to vote on Viconia then Aerie or I will probably just volunteer so we can actually get further in the game.

[FM Casavir]

Here is my proposition, select a player that seems scummy. I.E. FM Cernd and force him to propose an viable solution, by mandating he gets voted the following day if he does not divulge a clue, and/or does not die to the trap. Unless of course we think we have the solution correct in which case I propose the most trustworthy in the party in this case FM Haer-Dalis, to propose the solution.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Here is my proposition, select a player that seems scummy. I.E. FM Cernd and force him to propose an viable solution, by mandating he gets voted the following day if he does not divulge a clue, and/or does not die to the trap. Unless of course we think we have the solution correct in which case I propose the most trustworthy in the party in this case FM Haer-Dalis, to propose the solution.

I feel like Vengeance is probably the answer, but I could be wrong. I'll probably volunteer myself up unless Viconia confirms she will send in the answer.

[FM Valygar]

My thoughts:
1) I don't think we have the right answer: I just don't feel like vengeance fits the puzzle altogether, nor does it 'feel' right (hardly a scientific argument, but it's just what I personally feel).
2) I don't want to send someone like Haer-Dalis on a crapshoot of a guess and run the risk of them dying tonight AND having accomplished almost nothing (besides ruling out 'vengeance' as an answer).
3) I suppose I could live with sending FM Cernd to solve the puzzle, but I just feel like he's contributed a lot more than Viconia (understatement of the century) and would be more of an asset to keep around.

My current opinions and suggested course of action are centered around the idea that we are shooting from the hip with our puzzle answer: I am not confident and I don't want to regret what we do here tonight when morning comes.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

My thoughts:
1) I don't think we have the right answer: I just don't feel like vengeance fits the puzzle altogether, nor does it 'feel' right (hardly a scientific argument, but it's just what I personally feel).
2) I don't want to send someone like Haer-Dalis on a crapshoot of a guess and run the risk of them dying tonight AND having accomplished almost nothing (besides ruling out 'vengeance' as an answer).
3) I suppose I could live with sending FM Cernd to solve the puzzle, but I just feel like he's contributed a lot more than Viconia (understatement of the century) and would be more of an asset to keep around.

My current opinions and suggested course of action are centered around the idea that we are shooting from the hip with our puzzle answer: I am not confident and I don't want to regret what we do here tonight when morning comes.

Well I'd like to send Quayle. I have him as a neutral. So we can see if he is a possible thief if he survives. [/vote]FM Quayle[/vote] Sending Viconia won't even rule out a word and doesn't benefit us.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Well I'd like to send Quayle. I have him as a neutral. So we can see if he is a possible thief if he survives. FM Quayle Sending Viconia won't even rule out a word and doesn't benefit us.

Well I messed that vote up. Fixed.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Damnit I am having so many problems with voting this game. FM Quayle

Also we can tell him to guess vengeance. If he guesses Malice instead when we told him to guess Vengeance then we know he won't cooperate if he lives.

[FM Quayle]

Well, the fun thing is that I'm not even a Thief.

[FM Casavir]

FM Quayle

[FM Xzar]

But you are at the moment certainly better than someone who would give no solution.

FM Quayle

[FM Quayle]

I do happen to have a night action.

[FM Keldorn]

To be perfectly honest I think you guys are hopping on a scum beneficial train, carefully consider both the result of the action as well as the credibility of the person who presented it.
I hoped that voting her would lead to more participation. This is clearly not the case and she will most definitely replaced. You can't call what she did so far participation. I'm willing to vote someone else.

Also be aware that the cultist actually know the members of their team now. There are 2 cultists in each puzzle chat on average. No Cultist will propose one another to solve the puzzles unless the solver is the Prophet. But that will most likely lead to unwanted attention - so unlikely as well.


Well I'd like to send Quayle. I have him as a neutral. So we can see if he is a possible thief if he survives.
Let's say Quayle really is a non-Cult/Adventurer/Harper. If he survives that tells us nothing because he could just have gotten lucky. Furthermore the neutrals interested in being proposed are the Avenger, the Thief and all the Bhaalspawns - none of which, with the exception of the Thief, we want to have in that position. I'm against sending Quayle. He seems to eager to do it and that with an half-assed solution. Big red flag right there.

And as another reminder: Please don't forget about the main puzzle submissions. It's a free guess, don't let it go to waste. To avoid duplicate submissions leave your intended one in the thread. Mine is "resurrection".

I'm currently going through our members to find the hero worthy of braving the Gargoyle.

[FM Ferengi]

For the record: Mysterious Strangers' votes will not count towards the volunteer tally.

[FM Casavir]

For the record: Mysterious Strangers' votes will not count towards the volunteer tally.

My vote was intended to be symbolic.

[FM Haer-Dalis]

Please don't forget about the main puzzle submissions. It's a free guess, don't let it go to waste. To avoid duplicate submissions leave your intended one in the thread. Mine is "resurrection".

I'm currently going through our members to find the hero worthy of braving the Gargoyle.

First. Do I just send an answer to Bhaal? If so I think I will go with "Bhaal" just incase. I don't want us to solve it and find out we got trolled.

Second. It has to be submitted 2 hours before start of day. So if Viconia is going to be sent I will volunteer before we run out of time since I'm not gonna let the night be wasted.

[FM Keldorn]

So if Viconia is going to be sent I will volunteer before we run out of time since I'm not gonna let the night be wasted.
You are definitely somebody I would trust with this task.
FM Haer-Dalis

[FM Tiax]

FM Quayle

for the following reasons...

1) lurking/being useless does not necessarily equal scum. it shows a lack of interest in the game. don't forget this.
2) unless Viconia's activity sky-rockets tomorrow (which would be very suspicious), she is bound to be replaced by a much more useful reserve.
3) Quayle is going to propose an answer. Viconia is unlikely to do so. even if I don't really like malice, I don't want us to waste any chance at the puzzle.
4) Quayle's posts do not seem that pro-town and does have some scum potential. Viconia simply doesn't post enough to make an accurate read. as I said above, unless Viconia's activity suddenly goes up by a lot, she is going to be replaced very soon.

[FM Keldorn]

Imagine a Bhaalspawn solves the puzzle and gets the clue, but gives us a wrong one or none at all. After all night immunity is a nice thing to have. What can we do? Absolutely nothing. We have to depend on the Thief to retrieve the clue. No normal cultist has reasons to behave like Quayle did. Hence I see no reason to give this opportunity to him. Do you follow my train of thought, Tiax?

[FM Cernd]

What makes you think that Quayle is a Bhaalspawn?

[FM Viconia]

FM Quayle

for the following reasons...

1) lurking/being useless does not necessarily equal scum. it shows a lack of interest in the game. don't forget this.
2) unless Viconia's activity sky-rockets tomorrow (which would be very suspicious), she is bound to be replaced by a much more useful reserve.
3) Quayle is going to propose an answer. Viconia is unlikely to do so. even if I don't really like malice, I don't want us to waste any chance at the puzzle.
4) Quayle's posts do not seem that pro-town and does have some scum potential. Viconia simply doesn't post enough to make an accurate read. as I said above, unless Viconia's activity suddenly goes up by a lot, she is going to be replaced very soon.

why would it be suspicious if my activity skyrockets? im trying to be active but cant always be there. i have a life.

FM Quayle

[FM Imoen]

Very well, milords. FM Quayle

Can one "volunteer" to be sent for the puzzle without being voted upon by other members of the chat? If someone volunteers while other people have votes on them, which takes precedence?

[FM Imoen]

why would it be suspicious if my activity skyrockets? im trying to be active but cant always be there. i have a life.

FM Quayle

She lives!

[FM Cernd]

A-ha!
Too busy to contribute, but she can afford spending valuable time of her precious life to come and vote Quayle.

[FM Imoen]

A-ha!
Too busy to contribute, but she can afford spending valuable time of her precious life to come and vote Quayle.

Very suspicious indeed.

[FM Imoen]

For now, perhaps we should send ser Quayle as planned, and see how everyone feels about hanging Viconia on the morrow.

[FM Viconia]

A-ha!
Too busy to contribute, but she can afford spending valuable time of her precious life to come and vote Quayle.

a-ha! i have time today unlike the last days to be active.

me contributing to this puzzle will result in a sure wrong answer. im not really good in puzzles.

i vote quayle because everybody else was voting him

[FM Cernd]

i vote quayle because everybody else was voting him
Quote of the day.

[FM Viconia]

For now, perhaps we should send ser Quayle as planned, and see how everyone feels about hanging Viconia on the morrow.

trying to get people lynched boy? this is a sign of evil.

[FM Keldorn]

What makes you think that Quayle is a Bhaalspawn?
His behavior suggests Avenger, Bhaalspawn, Thief and less likely Prophet (reasoning provided in a previous post). He said that he isn't Thief which is the only one I would be willing to send solve the puzzle of those listed.


why would it be suspicious if my activity skyrockets? im trying to be active but cant always be there. i have a life.
Posting 1 post in 72 hours and another two in 48h isn't seriously trying to be active. Especially with the contents of said posts. You brought absolutely nothing into this game. I look forward to you providing more content. So please make yourself useful. Just take our proposed solution and you will have served your purpose.
FM Viconia

[FM Cernd]

For now, perhaps we should send ser Quayle as planned, and see how everyone feels about hanging Viconia on the morrow.
Quayle wasn't the original plan. Seeing how obviously scummy Viconia is, it's quite plausible that Quayle is nothing but a distraction so Viconia doesn't die to the traps.