S-FM 100: High Noon

[Poriomania]

http://i.imgur.com/4thvE.jpg

Welcome to High Noon (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=High_Noon) Mafia, a wild western themed mafia game for nine players.

The setup is very vanilla and very simple:

Role List
7 Citizens
2 Mafioso


Win Conditions
Town: Eliminate the scum.
Mafia: Outnumber or equal the town.

This setup has a twist, however. As told by maxwell, the creator of this setup:

"The setup is all-vanilla with one special gimmick: once per day, one player may challenge another player to a duel by posting Duel: playername. Once you enter into a duel, there is no backing down. In a duel, the town must vote between the two duelists to decide who is killed. Duelists do not have a vote. Once a majority of non-duelists have voted for a player, that player is killed and the duel ends. The day continues as normal after a duel, with vote counts reset and players voting for a lynch. There is a maximum of one duel and one lynch per day."

Rules

1. 48 hour Days, 24 hour Nights. The game will start at Day 1. Be prepared to talk.

2. No editing posts, PM quoting, PMing, all that jazz. I don't want to modkill players.

3. There are no jesters, cults, or anything that disrupts the core spirit of the game. Behavioral Analysis is Behavioral Analysis, and you'll have to hone your skills to succeed in this game.

4. Rolecalling early will not break the game. The setup will punish you if you try to mod or flavorgame it. I don't recommend it!

5. The only game discussion should take place in the observer chat, in the thread.

6. Respect your fellow players, and have fun. If you don't have fun, I will modkill you or replace you, and that would be bad, wouldn't it?

7. No invisible ink or cryptotext.

----

Dueling in Scoville
1. Damus_Graves r. Hypersniper
2. ika r. Sinclair
3. Orpz
4. Sen
5. CarolinaCrown
6. Banshis

Surrounded by Vultures
1. RLVG, Town Citizen, died in a crossfire.
2. Ganondorf, Town Citizen, found murdered by the Outlaws.
3. Titus, Town Citizen, died in a crossfire.

Touring a Ghost Town (/reserve)
1. powerofdeath
2. ika
3. NoctiZ
4. Dagaen
5. eezstreet
6. SuperJack

Watching News Stories (/observe)
1. Nick

The Day will end at this time. (http://m.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=july+28+9%3A00+pm+pacific+standard+time&x=-1328&y=-71)

Reserved players may PM me for a link to the observer chat.

[Poriomania]

Stolen from maxwell -

Early this morning, the whole town was awoken by a noise not often heard in Scoville - a gunshot. People rushed out into the street, looking around nervously for the source of the noise. It shortly became apparent that there were only 9 of them around. The Sheriff was missing. Rushing into his office, they found his office ransacked and him slumped over in his chair, a single gunshot wound in his chest. Who would murder the sheriff? No one had been arrested in Scoville in two years and no one was known to have quarreled with him, so clearly there was something more than a grudge at play here. The townspeople eyed each other suspiciously, realizing that some of them must be bloodthirsty outlaw murderers...

Cryptonic, Town Sheriff, has been found dead during the pregame.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

You may now post.

[Orpz]

Hello everyone. I'd like to open with discussion about the dueling system. I haven't played this mechanic before but I think it can be as useful a two lynch per day system. I was thinking maybe have two scummy people duel each other and depending on the flip of the duel (P1 duels P2, P2 dies and flips Town), we should pressure and/or lynch the survivor. It's risky because there's a chance it could be two Towns but it's also sorta safe because 48 hour days to discuss and we're picking scummy people to duel, not randoming. How do you guys propose to use this system?

[Titus]

I would say it's best to save duels for when we have more information. Regardless of how someone behaves, I say no duels day 1. If we had a duel go south and a mislynch, we'd be down to four to two. Numbers are our friends right now. The duel is a tool. Ideally it would be used, if we know one person or the other is scum.

[CarolinaCrown]

Hello everyone. I'd like to open with discussion about the dueling system. I haven't played this mechanic before but I think it can be as useful a two lynch per day system. I was thinking maybe have two scummy people duel each other and depending on the flip of the duel (P1 duels P2, P2 dies and flips Town), we should pressure and/or lynch the survivor. It's risky because there's a chance it could be two Towns but it's also sorta safe because 48 hour days to discuss and we're picking scummy people to duel, not randoming. How do you guys propose to use this system?

Sounds good to me. People will probably be reluctant to duel though. If this is how we're going to use it (i.e. "vote" on who to have duel) we should decide early on as a group to do so, so that we don't have individual duel agendas mucking things up and so that players know that they're at risk of lynch if they don't agree to duel.

I swear Banshis if you actually duel me today I am going to lose my shit.

[Sen]

Hi, everyone.

I think we might simply use it as a double lynch system; we vote scummy players like in every normal day and then use the duel system as a second lynch.

For example, we have players X and Y on most of our scumlists, so we pick one of the most townish reads to challenge one of the scummy ones and all of us vote the scummy one, then we proceed to lynch the other scummy player with the voting system.

Our main goal for now should be to get rid of one of the mafia as soon as possible, just so they cannot have that extra vote, which will be quite important in the endgame.

For now, I think we should all try to be as active as possible. Given that we have no PRs, discussion is our only weapon. Any lurker for today might be a good lynch for d1. There's not a single valid reason to lurk with this setup, since we have no roles to protect, so let's talk.

Random: Ganondorf

[Sen]

I would say it's best to save duels for when we have more information. Regardless of how someone behaves, I say no duels day 1.
I agree with this. I also propose that duels take place on the second half of the game, so we have at the very least 24 of previous discussion before doing anything.

[Sen]

I agree with this. I also propose that duels take place on the second half of the day, so we have at the very least 24 of previous discussion before doing anything.
Fixed.

[Orpz]

I don't think anyone will just random duel since they'll more than likely lose, but it's possible. Can't we deny the duel request though?

@Sen, I disagree. If X and Y are on our scumlist, I'd rather threaten to lynch them if they don't duel each other. This way, one of them will die and the votes will be distributed. Depending on the flip, we can try to find the Mafia from the votes. If we have a Town duel a scum and everyone stacks on the obvious scum, the other Mafia will blend.

[Titus]

I don't think anyone will just random duel since they'll more than likely lose, but it's possible. Can't we deny the duel request though?

@Sen, I disagree. If X and Y are on our scumlist, I'd rather threaten to lynch them if they don't duel each other. This way, one of them will die and the votes will be distributed. Depending on the flip, we can try to find the Mafia from the votes. If we have a Town duel a scum and everyone stacks on the obvious scum, the other Mafia will blend.

That threat is meaningless Orpz. It's your basic prisoner's dilemma but both know you can only lynch one if they refuse to duel. The duel is best used as a second lynch but one person must volunteer and assume the risk of losing.

RLVG

[CarolinaCrown]

I don't think anyone will just random duel since they'll more than likely lose, but it's possible. Can't we deny the duel request though?

@Sen, I disagree. If X and Y are on our scumlist, I'd rather threaten to lynch them if they don't duel each other. This way, one of them will die and the votes will be distributed. Depending on the flip, we can try to find the Mafia from the votes. If we have a Town duel a scum and everyone stacks on the obvious scum, the other Mafia will blend.

The setup makes it look like duels are unilaterally declared and irrevocable. So no backing out of a duel, no denying a duel if it happens. All the more important to decide today, together, how we're going to use this mechanic before someone decides they're judge jury and executioner.

I don't think scum would independently initiate a duel unless they were sure they would win - it's such a high risk of death for them.

[Sen]

In case both of them refuse to duel, then we can do what I proposed and have our less scummy player challenge one of them, and then lynch the other.
That said, I still think that'd be better as our main strategy and not as a backup plan. If you tell them to duel each other, they might play afk and make us waste many hours until one of them comes. Having town challenge scummy players allows us to speed up the process.

Also, I'd like to go with Carolina on this one: duels should be decided by most of us. I don't want anyone to screw a whole day just because they rage-challenged someone. Remember that once a challenge starts, it will end until one of the involved players is dead.

[Sen]

Are last wills allowed?

[Poriomania]

Are last wills allowed?

Yes.

[Titus]

Sen I believe we can no duel. Anyway let's back away from speculation and scumhunt.

[CarolinaCrown]

Bedtime, see y'all in the morn. Hope everyone else starts posting.

[Sen]

Yeah, I'm proposing that if we're going to lynch, we rather duel first, since challenging a player resets all votes.

Think of a scenario when the day ends in about 1 or 2 hours and scum is at L-1. The player could easily challenge someone to a duel and given that there's not much time left, scum might walk away from the lynch, making us waste a duel or lynch the next day.

Anyway. Going to take a nap.
Good night, everyone.

[Ganondorf]

Hello everyone, I'm Ganondorf: I don't believe I've played a game with a single one of you before, so I am looking forward to an interesting game. Considering that we have no power role information to go off of and since I don't know you all that well, I would personally support waiting to duel until the second day for two reasons. Reason one: it gives everyone time to analyze each other's behavior, but that is obvious. However, I'm more looking to see who the mafia targets at night before a duel begins. Like it was previously stated, dueling is risky business, but I believe that seeing who the mafia targeted and trying to figure out why might just provide us with enough information to go with it. In the meantime, I'm all for lynching a lurker day 1, but until then...

-Vote Sen
I appreciate the sentiment so much that I will return it :D

The people who have yet to post are RVLG, Hypersniper, Sinclair, and Banshis.

Sen (1): Ganondorf
Ganondorf (1): Sen
RVLG (1): Titus

[Ganondorf]

By the way, there really isn't any meat to this, but #1 on my (very thorough) scumlist ATM is Sen for a number of reasons. 1) He has posted quite a bit already: although this isn't necessarily scummy behavior, in this particular game I see large quantities of posting as hiding in plain sight. More importantly, 2) He asked about last wills. Although it is a legitimate question, I personally believe that in a setup like this, there's no reason not to just say everything you're thinking in day chat: no power roles means no reason to hide information or ideas (that is, unless you come up with some shocking revelation overnight, which I also suppose is perfectly possible). Of course, asking questions could also be seen as an attempt to act town-friendly as well...

I really don't have much to back this up with, but I figure in a setup like this, I might as well just think out loud.

[Sen]

I'm new to this forum, but people who have played with me know I'm always one of the most active players around. That said, post quantity says nothing, you should be more concerned about the content.
Lastly, discussion is Town's only weapon in this setup. Saying that contributing is scummy sounds like you're trying to deter people from being active. As I said some post ago: Why on earth would anyone lurk with this setup? You can't even use the typical scum "I'm a TPR trying to lay low" defense.

Regarding my question about last wills. I wanted to know if I'll have to rush an analysis before the day ends or if I can simply use the night phase to read the whole thread and write a better analysis instead of a resumed version which may lack information that I might notice after a second or third read.

So far it seems like you're trying to hard to tunnel on me, just because random.org said I had to vote you. I'm glad random votes still have their use. Lovely OMGUS vote.

[Ganondorf]

As I said before, I don't have prior experience with any of you and do not know your gameplay habits, so I have very little to compare. I never said nor suggested that contributing is scummy, but I did note that (at the time) a large portion of the posts had been yours. Obviously, mutual contribution on behalf of every player will be necessary for success in this game, but its important to see who is contributing more than others (or who is trying to appear to be contributing more than others).
In regards to your comment about me tunneling you, I made one single post (which I specifically prefaced as really not having "any meat" to it and even specified that I didn't have much to back it up with) and reciprocated a (probably) meaningless vote. Considering this game has barely been active for more than 6 hours, I would hardly call that "tunneling" you.


I'm glad random votes still have their use.

Your vote prompted my return vote, but it was your behavior that prompted my quickie analysis of you. At most, my ideas were paranoid observations or conspiracy theories, but your reaction to my discussing them was far more meaningful. Whether someone remains calm or gets angry when you implicate them and whether they point the finger back at you can tell alot about a person...

[Sen]

Well, I guess we'll get to know each other sooner or later.
You'll find out that this is the calm version of me; when I'm angry, I swear more than Dexter's sister.

I still don't understand why you condem activity. As I already stated, it's not the quantity of posts what matters, it's the content, and I think we'll have constant arguments if you keep that mentality, since I've always been a strong proponent of lynching lurkers in games with no PRs.

Some of my reasons:

1) Lurking usually helps scum to stay unnoticed for a few days. It's quite common that they just lay low, post a couple of fillers and then vanish while Town kills each other. I have no useful reads on you; your vote has equal chances of being genuine scumhunting or fail scumplay, but that' just an example. Scum usually gets away with this and I always do my best to stop it.

2) Lurking makes it harder for people to read someone: scum can simply post two or three times a day and then make up some random excuse about being busy IRL and they usually end up in the "I don't know" or grey part of people's reads.

3) It's also natural that scum will want to lurk. Ever been in a situation where you have to convince someone else of a lie? It's way harder to be coherent for 500 posts than it is to post a couple of random reads or join a train to gain town points; being active is bad for scum, since the more you speak, the harder it is to maintain a lie. "Betrayal oozes out of every pore".

Now I'd like to hear why you think that contributing a lot might be scumplay.
From my experience, the key there is the word "contribution": There's a big difference between being active, but adding nothing of use to the discussion or derailing it, and actually contributing with new input or information that will benefit the town.

I agree when you say that scum sometimes is quite active, but that's why I told you to focus on the content and not the quantity. The moment you can quote me spamming the daychat with misleading stuff or with mere filler posts, I'll be the first one to place a vote on me.

We have some 40 hours to analyze each other, so let's not derail this with a wall of "no u" replies. For now we should discuss the strategy to follow. of course, if you have any direct questions for me, feel free to fire away.

You said that you agree with not having a duel today, but havent given your opinion on the rest:
What do you think of the proposed strategies?
Which one do you prefer?
Do you have a better idea to improve the chances of hitting at least one of them as early as possible?

[Hypersniper]

Hi all I live in Britain and I have to sleep so I won't be on when most of you are on but I will try to contribute as much as possible when a bunch if you are on I also have a strange way of playing fm that I get marked as scum for anyway I'm doing decorating so I be on in about 4-6 hours

[Hypersniper]

RANDOM VOTE INBOUND

Sen

[Banshis]

Well game started when I was sleeping, but I am here now. I would say not to go through with a duel today since odds are it is only going to be 2 citizens against each other and we have a high chance of a mislynch. I was only joking with Carolina that I would duel him btw. I wouldn't waste the duel mechanic.

Sen regarding lurkers in the set-up you are probably right because anyone who refuses to talk and lurks have something to hide or don't want to look scummy through their words.

To everyone about the mafia only being lurkers it is highly probable, but if it is an experienced player they will try to control the chat instead of lurking. Not saying ur scum Titus, but even when you are scum you post a lot which is kind of what I mean. Lurkers aren't always going to be the safest lynch. If so though use the gladiator mechanic on 2 of the lurkers and make both of them talk. They both will be afraid to lose their lives so they will be forced to talk. It is an excellent pressuring mechanic too.

[Hypersniper]

Well game started when I was sleeping, but I am here now. I would say not to go through with a duel today since odds are it is only going to be 2 citizens against each other and we have a high chance of a mislynch. I was only joking with Carolina that I would duel him btw. I wouldn't waste the duel mechanic.

Sen regarding lurkers in the set-up you are probably right because anyone who refuses to talk and lurks have something to hide or don't want to look scummy through their words.

To everyone about the mafia only being lurkers it is highly probable, but if it is an experienced player they will try to control the chat instead of lurking. Not saying ur scum Titus, but even when you are scum you post a lot which is kind of what I mean. Lurkers aren't always going to be the safest lynch. If so though use the gladiator mechanic on 2 of the lurkers and make both of them talk. They both will be afraid to lose their lives so they will be forced to talk. It is an excellent pressuring mechanic too.

i agree with this making the lurkers duel so they talk we can flush infomation out of them

[Banshis]

Actually if we are going to just lynch today we should use the gladiator mechanic on 2 people and choose who we lynch through that. It gets us more information than by pressuring 1 person who might get lynched and only 1 person can die from the duel so it is about the same as a lynch. Just 2 people need to come clean instead of 1 person. I'm in favor of using the gladiator mechanic today, but no lynch. I just see it ending up being more useful than just lynching 1 person today.

[Hypersniper]

what so you suggest that we duel the lurkers but people can put a lynch train and we could get a mislynch

[Banshis]

what so you suggest that we duel the lurkers but people can put a lynch train and we could get a mislynch

I'm suggesting if we are set on lynching someone today we should duel him with another person who is scummy so they both have to talk. It gives us more information.

[Sen]

I'm in favor of using the gladiator mechanic today, but no lynch. I just see it ending up being more useful than just lynching 1 person today.
It is indeed more useful if applied in the way that you described it, but there are also some drawbacks:

When you're voting someone, there's the chance that the player can explain some of the actions which seemed scummy to the rest of the group, and it's quite common that multiple lynch trains take place during a single day. precisely to do what you want: to get as much information as possible.

If we ask scummy players to duel each other, it's likely that we'll waste a lot of time while they try to convince us otherway, which makes sense, since whether they're town or scum, asking someone to challenge someone else because both look scummy is like telling them "No matter what you do or say, one of you two die today".

That would also focus all of the attention on the duelists and wouldn't allow us to effectively change the target of pressure until one of the duelists is dead.
That's why I'm proposing to always have a town vs scum duel, as an extra lynch, so we can all just vote and move on with the day discussion, without wasting time.

If you want to get as much info as possible, that can be accomplished with the vote system; we can always have two simultaneous trains. If one of the voted players refuses to cooperate or just keeps being scummy, then we can use the duel to lynch that player.

Does a lynch end the day?
If so, there's even more reason to always use a duel to lynch, unless there's not enough time left for that.

[Sinclair]

Morning.

I confirmed last night then went to sleep.

Not quite sure what to contribute right now, besides I feel like we should wait to duel. I'd rather not have 2 potential mis-lynches today.

[Banshis]

Sen you are right that we can just vote pressure people, but if later we come to a point where 2 people seem very scummy then we can use the gladiator system to pit them against each other. This can be used to prevent sheeping so people can vote on who seems scummier to them and they should explain their reasoning. I have to go and work now, but I will comment more when I get back. I still think after we finish with pressuring we should use the gladiator mechanic to decide the lynch. It doesn't mean we will kill 2 people today though. Use gladiator as our lynch instead of outright lynching someone.

[Titus]

Let me be frank. The next person who posts about duel usage, mafia tactics or anything else setup related without significant behavioral analysis is getting voted.

[Sen]

Well, I don't think that a duel would help with the sheeping aspect, since before there's a duel, we would've agreed on who would take part of it, and sheeping will most likely happen in that part.

I agree that if we reach a point where a couple of players couldn't get more scummy, it'd be nice to face them against each other, although I still think that if we already have two players in such position, it'd be more efficient to do as I suggested. But whatever works is fine, I guess.

If we're going with that strategy (to face scummy vs scummy), I just want to ask something: That we're 100% sure that we don't care if either of them die. There would be nothing worse than suddenly deciding that the duelists weren't that scummy after all, since the only way to keep both alive would be to skip the day.

Do normal voting rules apply to duels (change vote / unvote?)

[Sinclair]

Let me be frank. The next person who posts about duel usage, mafia tactics or anything else setup related without significant behavioral analysis is getting voted.

Oh yes, because a page and a half of posts can really be useful for behavioral analysis. At best we'll get a very rough outline of the person. Maybe with a couple more pages we can start doing that.

[Titus]

Sen

Sinclair, you're at least trying. If we focus solely on the setup, there will be nothing to analyze. Let's generate some suspects ans play. Then worry about the duels. This game is winnable even if we never duel.

[Sen]

I don't see why you'll want to prevent people from getting information about the duel mechanics, given that the whole setup is designed around that. The same about the strategy that we will be using until the game ends.

Also, you'd be surprised of all the things that you can analyze from how people discuss setups and strategies.

[Sinclair]

Also, you'd be surprised of all the things that you can analyze from how people discuss setups and strategies.

Okay, then go ahead and analyze.

[Titus]

I don't see why you'll want to prevent people from getting information about the duel mechanics, given that the whole setup is designed around that. The same about the strategy that we will be using until the game ends.

Also, you'd be surprised of all the things that you can analyze from how people discuss setups and strategies.

I don't see why you are reluctant to talk about behavior.

Behavioral analysis is the key. The setup says so. Let's move forward in that way.

[Sen]

Okay, then go ahead and analyze.

Well, so far, Carolina, Titus, Banshis and Orpz have discussed or proposed ways to use the duel system to our advantadge.
Banshis and Orpz want the scum vs scum thing, which seems to me less efficient that the town vs scum which I've suggested.

I particularly liked Carolina encouraging the rest to take decisions together. As I said, let the duel be a second lynch and not a "my e-penis is bigger than yours" contest.

The rest of you have not even commented on the suggestions or proposed new ones, which is something we should agree on as soon as possible so we can move on.

I don't like Titus attitude with her "Do as I say or I vote you" policy. As I said, Carolina hit the nail with the "let's take decisions together" part, and Titus is not only discouraging conversation about important subjects, but also making it clear that she doesn't care about the opinion of others and will pretty much do as she pleases. I don't see how that can benefit us.

I don't see how you want to get your suspects when you threaten to punish those who want to take part on the ongoing conversation.

[Sinclair]

Well, so far, Carolina, Titus, Banshis and Orpz have discussed or proposed ways to use the duel system to our advantadge.
Banshis and Orpz want the scum vs scum thing, which seems to me less efficient that the town vs scum which I've suggested.

I particularly liked Carolina encouraging the rest to take decisions together. As I said, let the duel be a second lynch and not a "my e-penis is bigger than yours" contest.

The rest of you have not even commented on the suggestions or proposed new ones, which is something we should agree on as soon as possible so we can move on.

I don't like Titus attitude with her "Do as I say or I vote you" policy. As I said, Carolina hit the nail with the "let's take decisions together" part, and Titus is not only discouraging conversation about important subjects, but also making it clear that she doesn't care about the opinion of others and will pretty much do as she pleases. I don't see how that can benefit us.

I don't see how you want to get your suspects when you threaten to punish those who want to take part on the ongoing conversation.

Very nice, I like it.

I'm terrible at analysis. I almost always get it wrong. I tried in the last FM and in my previous S-FMs I have failed miserably :P

[Sen]

I don't see why you are reluctant to talk about behavior.

Behavioral analysis is the key. The setup says so. Let's move forward in that way.

I'm all for analyzing, but I think that at this point, any analysis from me would be nothing but an overly paranoid read. Seriously, half of the players have posted one or two times. If you want to have something to analyze, we need to get people to be active, and the duel mechanics is as good as any other topic for that matter.

If you want to propose a better way to invite to conversation, please go ahead.

[RLVG]

I just woke up.
Analyzing it may be the trick, but since it's a citizen war not everyone is going to scumslip or townslip.

[Hypersniper]

well i play much more troll like/ not helping on day 1 since we got no info from pr but this set-up has no pr so i may put up a analysis later or maybe day 2 since really we have no info to judge people on except for lurkers

and im all in for using the duel mechanic to put 2 scummy people together

[Titus]

I'm all for analyzing, but I think that at this point, any analysis from me would be nothing but an overly paranoid read. Seriously, half of the players have posted one or two times. If you want to have something to analyze, we need to get people to be active, and the duel mechanics is as good as any other topic for that matter.

If you want to propose a better way to invite to conversation, please go ahead.

Yeah. How about we treat this as a normal game? When a spot where someone might want to duel comes up, they say so. Then, the town can chime in on whether or not the duel is a good idea and the towniness/scuminess of the two players.

Regardless, a duel is just dumb today given we have no information.

[RLVG]

To be quite frank, I would not mind a duel. Knowing games, I have no way of defending myself during suspicion. I'm a Town.

Later when the votes are required, getting the wrong can lead to the game dying. I rather get myself done so I won't ruin the game for misinterprettion of tells and "lurking" when I am asleep.

[Sinclair]

I'm gonna be going to work soon. I won't be able to post at all.

[CarolinaCrown]

Town vs. Scum duels are a poor idea because the player designated as "scum" basically already knows he's doomed. It's a much harsher sentence than lynching - at least during a lynch people have the opportunity to back out. Just as well, I've been saying we need to make decisions as a group, but there's something to the independence of controlling one's own vote that gets lost in the duel mechanic if we go town vs. scum.

Right now I've got my own FoS though. Titus may have tried to halt the dueling debate and jumped headfirst into behavioral analysis, but Ganondorf very early on started a scum debate. Now I think the arguments that Titus and Sen give both have merit, but Ganondorf immediately started searching for a target. I've never played with him, so this may just be how he operates, but it just seems like he jumped the gun a little bit.

Ganondorf

[Titus]

Town vs. Scum duels are a poor idea because the player designated as "scum" basically already knows he's doomed. It's a much harsher sentence than lynching - at least during a lynch people have the opportunity to back out. Just as well, I've been saying we need to make decisions as a group, but there's something to the independence of controlling one's own vote that gets lost in the duel mechanic if we go town vs. scum.

Right now I've got my own FoS though. Titus may have tried to halt the dueling debate and jumped headfirst into behavioral analysis, but Ganondorf very early on started a scum debate. Now I think the arguments that Titus and Sen give both have merit, but Ganondorf immediately started searching for a target. I've never played with him, so this may just be how he operates, but it just seems like he jumped the gun a little bit.

Ganondorf

Ganondorf put out a theory I hardly think that is searching for a target. Even then scum hunting is basically narrowing it down to who you want to lynch.

What I do have issue with is a "policy lynch" advocating lynching the lurkers so early in the day. Many of the people G was having issue with might not have had the opportunity to post yet.

[Ganondorf]

This post will probably be very disjointed, as I will be addressing several points, ideas, and accusations (CarolinaCrown.... nice profile picture btw) at once.

Sen, in regards to the questions you posed, I definitely want to wait for duel until day 2 since you can back out of a lynch but not a duel. If you're going to do lurker v lurker duels, fine, but if you're targeting someone who you specifically find scummy I don't really think it matters who duels them so long as the town is in agreement that the scummy one will lose. In cases where 2 players are in a serious disagreement or conflict, if they are confident in their argument I believe they can and should initiate a duel under the premise that the town will either guess right and take out scum through that duel, or they will do it the next day.

One thing that I find very disturbing is how you guys are all playing the game up until this point. Sure, you guys are talking about scumhunting and looking for scumtells, but you guys are assuming that they will just happen. Scumtells are scumtells regardless of the game setup, but any decent mafia should be smart and careful enough to avoid making random scumtells out of the blue. However, scumtells can be forced by making people take sides. In a normal game, someone roleclaiming and then accusing another player accomplished this, but we don't have the luxury of power roles in this game and we need to force arguments and side-taking on our own right from the getgo. I think we all need to be reminded of this, especially going into Day 2. Who the mafia chooses to kill will provide alot of information on its own, but we can't use that information unless we have context: who did that player side with, how was that player thinking/acting, who seemed to be trying to shut that player down, etc. Let the arguing begin!

Right now I've got my own FoS though. Titus may have tried to halt the dueling debate and jumped headfirst into behavioral analysis, but Ganondorf very early on started a scum debate. Now I think the arguments that Titus and Sen give both have merit, but Ganondorf immediately started searching for a target. I've never played with him, so this may just be how he operates, but it just seems like he jumped the gun a little bit.

Ganondorf

There's no such thing as jumping the gun in a game like this. For the record, I was actually searching for a lynch target, but I didn't plan on it being Sen (like I said, most of my analysis was rough, unsupported, and instinctual): it was more the reactions I was after.


Oh yes, because a page and a half of posts can really be useful for behavioral analysis. At best we'll get a very rough outline of the person. Maybe with a couple more pages we can start doing that.

Yeah, no.... with that mentality we're going to get nowhere.

First off, I am an old-timer in regards to this site so I didn't know you had to put votes into vote tags to make them count.

Sen

That being said, I find it odd that people are actually voting for Sen (my official vote puts him at L-2), so...

Sen

Overall, I'm quite happy with the day so far: over half of the people have vote for either myself or Sen. I'd personally look at the people who are trying to avoid behavioral analysis, scumhunting, or voting in general as these are the ways that sides become clear, lines are drawn, and people's true natures come out.

[RLVG]

Oh my god, a wall of text.

[Ganondorf]

Oh my god, a wall of text.

You ain't seen nothing yet...

[Poriomania]

Does a lynch end the day?


Yes.



Do normal voting rules apply to duels (change vote / unvote?)

Yes.

[Hypersniper]

Ganondorf that wall if text made my brain hurt

[Titus]

That wall was pretty good. I agree with everything in it. However, only the first vote tag counts within a given post. Unvoting is not necessary. Just put unvote in the vote tags to unvote.

Hypersniper, what do you think of Ganondof? RLVG? Sen?

[Ganondorf]

unvote

[Hypersniper]

Ganondorf seems like a legit town focused on not duelling unless absolutely needed.

RLVG just seemsto lurk a lot and IMO is scummy

Sen seems very focused on lynching tha lurkers and wants to scum tell mite then anyone but is not doing any scumtell

[Hypersniper]

I can't post massive posts since I'm on phone

[RLVG]

RLVG just seemsto lurk a lot and IMO is scummy

Where have I not heard that?

[Hypersniper]

RLVG

[RLVG]

RLVG

I've been in more than 20 games where everyone said I'm lurking and scummy. What's the difference?
Many of the times I was town, lol.

[Hypersniper]

In this game there's no reason to lurk ever so lurking us scummy

[RLVG]

In this game there's no reason to lurk ever so lurking us scummy

Both Mafia and Town would lurk for their own reasons. I'm currently playing on my PS3, casually checking the thread if there's anything worth of responding.

[Sen]

Well, it seems that at least four (Carolina, orpz, banshis and Hypersniper) prefer the scum vs scum method instead of mine, so I guess we can go with that and forget about the subject.

@Hypersinper: What was your intention behind what you've posted so far? You started by stating that you always look scummy, which to me sounded like "so if you think I'm scummy, it's because of that and not because I'm actual scum", then you say that you tend to troll d1, like we should excuse you if you do so just because that's your way of playing.
And now you placed a vote on RLVG, who pretty much used the same "I always look scummy" thing as you did.

@Titus: Regarding my suggestion to target lurkers. As I've said, I don't want scum to get away with the "I lay low while townies duel each other" strategy.

Although it's early on the day, people who have pointed fingers so far have moved a bit towards the green side of my spectrum: Titus, Carolina, Ganondorf. All of them have questioned others, voted them (for reasons other than random) and stated why, which is kinda a big deal in a setup where those that you're voting or questioning might end up deciding if you live past a duel or not.

@RLVG: So you think nothing that has been posted so far is worthy of an answer?
If you feel our contributions so far are so weak, why don't you take the iniciative and do something to improve this worthless discussion?

[RLVG]

@RLVG: So you think nothing that has been posted so far is worthy of an answer?
If you feel our contributions so far are so weak, why don't you take the iniciative and do something to improve this worthless discussion?

Misinterprettion. I ment something that is worth of my reply or contribution.
Sometimes it's just basic comments and basic replies, if I don't have anything important to add.

[Hypersniper]

well i play much more troll like/ not helping on day 1 since we got no info from pr but this set-up has no pr so i may put up a analysis later or maybe day 2 since really we have no info to judge people on except for lurkers

and im all in for using the duel mechanic to put 2 scummy people together

@sen I never said that I said I do that on most games BUT I won't do that this game since we have no pr

[Hypersniper]

I also have a NOOB BONUS

[Sen]

Misinterprettion. I ment something that is worth of my reply or contribution.
Sometimes it's just basic comments and basic replies, if I don't have anything important to add.

Fair enough. It's only been a couple of pages, so that works for me up to this point, but I'm really expecting everyone to post your reads on most if not all of the other players before the in-game day ends.

Also, care to elaborate on that statement where you said that both Mafia and Town might lurk for their own reasons?
I understand that if you're a TPR, you may want to avoid being in the spotlight, but I'd like to hear what kind of benefit you find for a townie lurking in a setup such as this one.

[RLVG]

Also, care to elaborate on that statement where you said that both Mafia and Town might lurk for their own reasons?
I understand that if you're a TPR


Role List
7 Citizens
2 Mafioso

Self explanatory.

[CarolinaCrown]

Fair enough. It's only been a couple of pages, so that works for me up to this point, but I'm really expecting everyone to post your reads on most if not all of the other players before the in-game day ends.

Also, care to elaborate on that statement where you said that both Mafia and Town might lurk for their own reasons?
I understand that if you're a TPR, you may want to avoid being in the spotlight, but I'd like to hear what kind of benefit you find for a townie lurking in a setup such as this one.



Lurking doesn't have to be a strategy, it can just be a play style. At the risk of looking like I'm defending RLVG (because I kind of am), it's his prerogative how involved he wants to get. In an ideal world, everyone contributes as much as they can, but if RLVG has a history of lurking then it's not really a symptom of scumminess - it's just how he plays.

[Hypersniper]

Ok if that is how he plays that's how he plays I think this is my 1st/2nd game with him so yeah

Anyone want some popcorn maybe a burger or some fries

[Hypersniper]

[unvote]unvote[\unvote]

[Hypersniper]

Fuck

unvote

[Sen]

I guess I still have a lot to learn about the way games are played in this forum.
From what I've seen, it looks like nobody else gives lurking the same weight as I do.

[Hypersniper]

Sen every one plays differently like me and my trollin and RLVG and his lurking Titus being active we all have diff ways

[Ganondorf]

Sen, it's not that we don't give as much weight to lurking, it's just that lurking does not necessarily equate to scum. I actually find RLVG suspicious on the grounds that he is so content with being called a lurker and he even uses the term himself (when he clearly has time to post). I also reject the idea that any citizen in this game has a reason of their own to lurk. Honestly, if everyone (mafiosos included) are trying to act like citizens, the only way we are going to be able to draw any conclusions is through association with other players (both positive and negative), and that will not happen if someone only answers questions that are addressed to them or specifically involve them. By the same token, however, just the simple act of being less active as another player means almost nothing, because then you could infer that the mafia will just try to be as active as possible and advocate for the "lynch the lurkers" strategy. I'm fine with people being somewhat inactive: we all have lives outside of the forums. Just don't embrace the status of lurker please... I don't care if it's your "play style" or not.

[Sinclair]

I'm always considered a lurker, even when I give a reason why I'll be lurking. Whether it be me playing a game, going to work, busy, etc. I think it's just that some people really just want a reason to call someone scum without just flat-out saying "You're scum."

Also, Hyper, you don't have noob status, you've been part of many FMs so far and you also have been a member for 2, 3 months now. People see you as scum all the time because most posts you make don't contribute much and you do have a lot of trolling posts. Just saying.

[Orpz]

On the topic of lurking, I feel it's double bad in this set-up. No one should be content in this setup to lurk; it leads to threats of duel or lynch as opposed to just the threat of lynch. I see Ganondorf as a considerable Town read, for his intense disapproval of lurkers.

Why did we end discussion about the set up? In setups without special mechanics, sure it's not necessary, but discussing unique mechanics gives insight into other people's opinions and is a good way to scumhunt using setup meta.

As per my FoS,
Hypersniper
suspicious for sheeping a vote and attempting to justify it as a "RANDOM VOTE" when it clearly was not.

[Banshis]

On the topic of lurking, I feel it's double bad in this set-up. No one should be content in this setup to lurk; it leads to threats of duel or lynch as opposed to just the threat of lynch. I see Ganondorf as a considerable Town read, for his intense disapproval of lurkers.

Why did we end discussion about the set up? In setups without special mechanics, sure it's not necessary, but discussing unique mechanics gives insight into other people's opinions and is a good way to scumhunt using setup meta.

As per my FoS,
Hypersniper
suspicious for sheeping a vote and attempting to justify it as a "RANDOM VOTE" when it clearly was not.

I can agree it is obvious he sheep voted Sen then changed to RLVG once Ganon unvoted.

As for people I think are scummy is Carolina. Reason I see him as a bit scummy is that he highlighted the together and he is trying to make sure everyone notices he wants everyone to make the decisions together. Sure it could be just because we do need to make decisions together, but also highlighting it to seem pro town isn't something I exactly like. If you want to show up pro town then word the post so people will notice it instead of highlighting it because you don't think that people will notice.

Hypersniper is scummy for Orpz's reasons.

RLVG is scummy for saying that even though he lurks it is just because he is town. I'm not saying he is scum because he lurks, but highlighting he is town when he lurks isn't something I see town people saying. I lurk only because I am town isn't exactly right. I may have mis-interpreted that, but he knows he will get FoS'd for lurking so then why does he lurk?

[Titus]

@Orpz, setup discussion allows scum to pretend to help while providing no actual analysis. Furthermore, they can derail by attempting to persuade us of bad methods of using duels. Overall, setup discussion isn't that helpful usually.

Banshis and Hypersniper both seem to have this... look everywhere symptom. I want to see if they can narrow it down with logic.

[CarolinaCrown]

I can agree it is obvious he sheep voted Sen then changed to RLVG once Ganon unvoted.

As for people I think are scummy is Carolina. Reason I see him as a bit scummy is that he highlighted the together and he is trying to make sure everyone notices he wants everyone to make the decisions together. Sure it could be just because we do need to make decisions together, but also highlighting it to seem pro town isn't something I exactly like. If you want to show up pro town then word the post so people will notice it instead of highlighting it because you don't think that people will notice.

Hypersniper is scummy for Orpz's reasons.

RLVG is scummy for saying that even though he lurks it is just because he is town. I'm not saying he is scum because he lurks, but highlighting he is town when he lurks isn't something I see town people saying. I lurk only because I am town isn't exactly right. I may have mis-interpreted that, but he knows he will get FoS'd for lurking so then why does he lurk?

A fair point, but honestly I use bold/italics in my post to try to recreate the way I'd say it aloud - I do (see) think that making the decision as a group will be ultimately beneficial, so I'm gonna bring it back around to that discussion.

There are a few ideas that have been thrown around.

1) Use the duel as a second lynch. Have someone else duel a scummy player with the knowledge that the scummy player will die. Gives the town a new piece of information without ending the day.
2) Use the duel to settle between two scummy players (decided as a group). Afterwards we can use the outcome to decide of we want to lynch the survivor.
3) Allow a player to request a duel, and have the request denied or granted by the group. Makes the duels more autonomous while still making sure they don't muck up plans.

Personally I'm a fan of 2 because it gives us the most information, both in the form of the involved players defending themselves and the onlookers justifying their votes.

@Titus setup discussion can be useful if we're going to set up our own political ground rules, so long as we can come to agreement on something, and I believe if we talk it out we can come to an agreement on this particular mechanic.

[Orpz]

@Orpz, setup discussion allows scum to pretend to help while providing no actual analysis. Furthermore, they can derail by attempting to persuade us of bad methods of using duels. Overall, setup discussion isn't that helpful usually.

I feel it's only useless when the game mechanics are standard (Town/Maf/Neutral, 1 lynch a day, 51% vote, that kinda thing). When new elements are introduced, discussing it asap will force scum to talk about it too without prior planning, and analyzing their opinions on it can help determine a Town/Scum read based on the mindset. There's still post analysis based on setup discussion, so while the post's content may not have actual analysis, the post itself can be analyzed. I don't see it as unhelpful at all.
What do you mean by "bad methods of using duels"? What do you think are bad methods? The only real bad methods I can think of is randoming, or rage-duelling. And attempting to derail by persuading the usage of those methods is absurd.

[Banshis]

@Orpz, setup discussion allows scum to pretend to help while providing no actual analysis. Furthermore, they can derail by attempting to persuade us of bad methods of using duels. Overall, setup discussion isn't that helpful usually.

Banshis and Hypersniper both seem to have this... look everywhere symptom. I want to see if they can narrow it down with logic.

Well on Carolina scum aren't necessarily going to do huge text walls. They will probably do a couple line posts since they will be worried about slipping the post somewhere. Scum are going to try to seem pro-town and rehash old stuff to seem like they are contributing. Carolina defended lurking play styles which isn't good at all in this set up. Carolina also it trying hard to come across pro town which is why he highlighted together in his 2nd post. There wasn't really a reason to highlight besides the fact for people to see. That is a couple things I have noticed on Carolina atm.

Hyper is still just sheeping and I hate his trolling playstyle with 1 sentence posts that usually don't mean anything and saying he has Noob Bonus...

RLVG uses a semi lurking playstyle which shouldn't be used in this type of set up and he is telling everyone when he lurks he shows up as scum to everyone, but he is usually town.

[Titus]

@Carolina, the problem is I will likely use the dual at some point but I'd rather not have to ask permission. When I find someone I know to be scummy and feel confident enough to risk my own hide, I will duel them, period. I'll then lay out my case if I hadn't already. I don't do well in situations where I have to go pretty please.

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.

@Orpz, Duels should be something done when the scum least expect it. The scum will want to push for a really high standard for a duel and minimize the fact that we can no lynch in a duel. When a duel actually gets done, especially if both scum are indeed dueling, they'll highlight the no lynch option. This is doubly true for scum who don't feel persuasive at all. The Duel can be a tool for pressure and many different things that are all context driven.

[Banshis]

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.


I just recapped and made it a bit more specific since I thought that is what you meant that they were a bit vague. Yes I know all 3 can't be scum, but those are the scummiest targets to me right now.

[RLVG]

RLVG is scummy for saying that even though he lurks it is just because he is town. I'm not saying he is scum because he lurks, but highlighting he is town when he lurks isn't something I see town people saying. I lurk only because I am town isn't exactly right. I may have mis-interpreted that, but he knows he will get FoS'd for lurking so then why does he lurk?

I did say I was town, because I am. Many times I said I am town. However people see me as a lurker, regardless of what situation.

...

...

Time to break that and be more active. All-nighters ftw.

[CarolinaCrown]

@Carolina, the problem is I will likely use the dual at some point but I'd rather not have to ask permission. When I find someone I know to be scummy and feel confident enough to risk my own hide, I will duel them, period. I'll then lay out my case if I hadn't already. I don't do well in situations where I have to go pretty please.

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.

@Orpz, Duels should be something done when the scum least expect it. The scum will want to push for a really high standard for a duel and minimize the fact that we can no lynch in a duel. When a duel actually gets done, especially if both scum are indeed dueling, they'll highlight the no lynch option. This is doubly true for scum who don't feel persuasive at all. The Duel can be a tool for pressure and many different things that are all context driven.

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group." First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though;

For duels, is it 50%+1 (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

[CarolinaCrown]

@Carolina, the problem is I will likely use the dual at some point but I'd rather not have to ask permission. When I find someone I know to be scummy and feel confident enough to risk my own hide, I will duel them, period. I'll then lay out my case if I hadn't already. I don't do well in situations where I have to go pretty please.

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.

@Orpz, Duels should be something done when the scum least expect it. The scum will want to push for a really high standard for a duel and minimize the fact that we can no lynch in a duel. When a duel actually gets done, especially if both scum are indeed dueling, they'll highlight the no lynch option. This is doubly true for scum who don't feel persuasive at all. The Duel can be a tool for pressure and many different things that are all context driven.

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group." First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though;

For duels, is it 51% (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

[Poriomania]

CarolinaCrown has difficulties posting in the thread.

I'll contact a mod about this.

[Titus]

[color=#00ff00]Is Carolina phone posting over 4G? I find many times mobile ips cannot phone post well.[/vote]

[Titus]

Is Carolina phone posting over 4G? I find many times mobile ips cannot phone post well.

Fixed.

[CarolinaCrown]

Is it working?

[CarolinaCrown]

Okay I'm not sure why that was happening. This is what I was trying to post.


@Carolina, the problem is I will likely use the dual at some point but I'd rather not have to ask permission. When I find someone I know to be scummy and feel confident enough to risk my own hide, I will duel them, period. I'll then lay out my case if I hadn't already. I don't do well in situations where I have to go pretty please.

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.

@Orpz, Duels should be something done when the scum least expect it. The scum will want to push for a really high standard for a duel and minimize the fact that we can no lynch in a duel. When a duel actually gets done, especially if both scum are indeed dueling, they'll highlight the no lynch option. This is doubly true for scum who don't feel persuasive at all. The Duel can be a tool for pressure and many different things that are all context driven.

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group." First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though;

For duels, is it 50%+1 (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

[CarolinaCrown]

I'm not sure what's going on. This is what I was trying to post:


@Carolina, the problem is I will likely use the dual at some point but I'd rather not have to ask permission. When I find someone I know to be scummy and feel confident enough to risk my own hide, I will duel them, period. I'll then lay out my case if I hadn't already. I don't do well in situations where I have to go pretty please.

@Banshis, I'm not saying anything you said was wrong, I'm just saying logically all three of those cannot be scum, so it looks like you're just recapping and saying don't look at me.

@Orpz, Duels should be something done when the scum least expect it. The scum will want to push for a really high standard for a duel and minimize the fact that we can no lynch in a duel. When a duel actually gets done, especially if both scum are indeed dueling, they'll highlight the no lynch option. This is doubly true for scum who don't feel persuasive at all. The Duel can be a tool for pressure and many different things that are all context driven.

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group." First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though;

For duels, is it 50%+1 (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

[CarolinaCrown]

Is there some number or combination of bbcode tags that triggers a need for mod approval?

[CarolinaCrown]

@Titus:

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group" is pretty much what you're saying. First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though.

For duels, is it 50%+1 (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

[CarolinaCrown]

Okay that's what I was trying to say, but it had the quote from Titus in it which made it require mod approval (????)

Also by "the issue" I mean the issue of a no-lynch duel.

[Titus]

@Titus:

"My own judgment is superior to that of the group" is pretty much what you're saying. First of all, I think it's foolish to say that we should try to catch the scum by surprise. We get more information from a healthy debate than a unilateral ass-whooping.

The whole point of being careful about starting duels is so we don't mislynch. In most of the proposed situations, it's understood that someone will die. I'm confused to how the voting works now though.

For duels, is it 50%+1 (of non-dueling players) to lynch, or is it simply the player with the most votes?

If it's the latter, I'll settle the issue right now: I will vote for someone in any group-sanctioned duel.

I am not giving scum an input on my duels. I am not going wild west. I might reconsider if my town reads say it's bad but I do not require consensus.

[CarolinaCrown]

I am not giving scum an input on my duels. I am not going wild west. I might reconsider if my town reads say it's bad but I do not require consensus.

Hmph, well I guess there's no convincing you then. Still, apart from that disagreement, Titus doesn't really seem too scummy. She stays on my green list.

I must be the only one, but I still have my doubts about Ganondorf. He's been very adamant about defining exactly what does and doesn't make a scum (and putting himself squarely OFF those lists). Still just a hunch though, I suppose.

As for Hyper and RLVG, I'm going to stick to my "lurking isn't necessarily scummy" philosophy, but I wish they'd post more useful things. Hypersniper in particular has been very sheepy, reversing his views when people disagree with him (ex: he votes RLVG, I defend RLVG, he unvotes).

As for RLVG, people have been requesting that he post more and he has yet to oblige. I'd sure like it if he delivered.

At this point, those are the three I've got the most suspicions about, in no particular order.

[RLVG]

As for RLVG, people have been requesting that he post more and he has yet to oblige. I'd sure like it if he delivered.

You were talking about forum errors on a phone. Not exactly anything I can give input on.

[CarolinaCrown]

You were talking about forum errors on a phone. Not exactly anything I can give input on.

So you don't think anything about anyone? You must have some thoughts about players in this game.

[RLVG]

So you don't think anything about anyone? You must have some thoughts about players in this game.

It's 06:20 in the morning and I attempt an all-nighter.
I'm failing though and going to sleep now.

Since everyone can claim the same role, I need at least one day done before I can have an absolute judgement on what others are or not. Inactive / Active won't help as a clue due to the fact everyone can claim the same thing, we need to look out for "Buddying" and proper "Defend".

[Sen]

Sorry about inactivity. My internet connection was dead for a few hours. u_ú

Anyway.

I'm well aware that people have real lives and that not all jobs offer as much free time to post here as others do. As you said, it's not a matter of quantity of posts. As I've been telling you from the start: focus on the content.

The main issue is that many times, the lack of activity will go mixed with a lack of content. Those who lurk will be the same ones who post one-liners, spam and nothing but fillers and check-in replies. (Not saying this is the case of all lurkers, but it's quite common to see that combination).
Seriously, if you only have time to post a couple of times a day, don't waste it on a reply which adds nothing of use to the discussion.

On Hypersniper, I totally smiled when I saw his "random" vote on me.
As I said; you don't need a duel between two scums to find the sheeps. Sheeping happens all the time.

Likely town:
CarolinaCrown
Titus
Ganondorf

Many good contributions, plus what I already stated some posts ago.

Scummy:
Hypersniper
RLVG

Hypersniper has done nothing but spamming one-liners and that sheep vote.
Both of them used the "I always look scummy" gambit. Most of their posts are fillers or excuses for not contributing at all.


Still on the grey zone:
Sinclair
Orpz
Banshis

Banshis is moving towards the green zone, but I don't feel comfortable enough moving him to my town list just yet.


We'll see how much my list changes during the next 24 hours.

[Hypersniper]

I'm back just woke up and al I have to say is LOL if anyone's has played with me they know I have never been scum

I defend saying ITS DAY 1 I can't judge people while its 5 pages long on a 48hour day

I have already stated my play style for day 1 is trolling and that includes sheeping people can say they don't like my playstyle and they think I'm scum and same said for anyone with a abnormal playstyle.

[Sen]

So... first you say that you won't troll since there are no PRs, now you try excuse your sheep vote and spamming as your typical d1 trolling.

Please start making some sense.
Hypersniper

[Hypersniper]

fact i never make sense look at my past fm games

[Hypersniper]

i made a lw btw

[Hypersniper]

popcorn anyone some coke maybe

[Banshis]

Why would you sign up for this game then if you won't take it seriously? Day 1 is very important to tell everyone's playstyles and it is just as useful as any other day in this set up since all town roles are the same. The Trolling playstyle is just going to end up getting you killed and it is an annoying playstyle to even use in this game. Try to contribute and give reads on who you think are the scummiest.

[Banshis]

Ok I just read Carolina's defense on my accusation and he kept to the keeping together and held his ground on it and I liked it. He is most likely town over scum in my eye now since the accusation didn't cause him to change his thoughts.

Hypersniper trolling is going to annoy me when he could help by contributing and trolling is just going to mess up reads on him. Sen said that he used the I always look scummy gambit and that isn't going to ever make someone look town when you literally are saying I make myself look scummy because I am town. It is a stupid strategy and if they don't want to be scummy then they need to contribute more.



Both of them used the "I always look scummy" gambit. Most of their posts are fillers or excuses for not contributing at all.

RLVG used the same gambit, but in his post he even claimed town. He knows he isn't going to be contributing a whole lot and hasn't given us an analysis on anyone yet. He says there is nothing to comment on, but he can give us an analysis on who he thinks is scummy.

Sinclair hasn't posted a lot yet. Mostly just some fillers. He needs to post more.

[Hypersniper]

on phone cant give massive analysis on all playas just a few here a small description of the 3 playas i think are scummy atm

Sen: he seems to want to lynch someone and wants to tunnel on one of the lurkers which seems scummy IMO wanting to lynch and seems to have the most posts.

RLVG: wants to duel and lurk 2 combinations that a scum would want to stay out of the spot light and watch town duel away i would lynch this scummy character ASAP

Titus: does not want to duel 2 scummy people or duel at all most likely because she is scum wanting not to be put into pressure IMO

[Hypersniper]

I ALSO CLAIM CITIZEN OMFG

[Hypersniper]

Titus

[Sen]

RLVG used the same gambit, but in his post he even claimed town. He knows he isn't going to be contributing a whole lot.

Then why join a game with no PRs at all?
I don't condone it, but I can understand people who only join games expecting to use their night actions (protip: Buy a FPS), but as I've stated multiple times; there's not a single valid reason for not contributing in a game where everyone's a citizen.

I don't care if this is how he plays. This is definitely not how you play this setup. The only reason why someone would lurk (implying he's not scum) would be to try and stay alive (since scum would likely target those who contribute the most, given that a silent daychat is scum's best friend).
Now, what's the point of he trying to stay alive if he doesn't contribute at all?


And yes, Sinclair has also been pretty inactive, although he said that he's busy with his job, unlike RLVG who pretty much said "I'm here but your posts are unworthy of a reply".
That said, I'm expecting him to at least make some nice contributions a couple of times a day.
I can understand not being able to play this 24/7, but let's not use that as an excuse to only post check-in replies and vanish for the rest of the day.

Sinclair, even if you think you're bad at analyzing people, I think it's important that you say what you think of some of the players.

Hypersniper: This isn't 4chan. If you have nothing to contribute, then refrain from posting at all. Even if I dislike lurkers, for once, I can say that the daychat would be better without you.

[Hypersniper]

Then why join a game with no PRs at all?
I don't condone it, but I can understand people who only join games expecting to use their night actions (protip: Buy a FPS), but as I've stated multiple times; there's not a single valid reason for not contributing in a game where everyone's a citizen.

I don't care if this is how he plays. This is definitely not how you play this setup. The only reason why someone would lurk (implying he's not scum) would be to try and stay alive (since scum would likely target those who contribute the most, given that a silent daychat is scum's best friend).
Now, what's the point of he trying to stay alive if he doesn't contribute at all?


And yes, Sinclair has also been pretty inactive, although he said that he's busy with his job, unlike RLVG who pretty much said "I'm here but your posts are unworthy of a reply".
That said, I'm expecting him to at least make some nice contributions a couple of times a day.
I can understand not being able to play this 24/7, but let's not use that as an excuse to only post check-in replies and vanish for the rest of the day.

Sinclair, even if you think you're bad at analyzing people, I think it's important that you say what you think of some of the players.

Hypersniper: This isn't 4chan. If you have nothing to contribute, then refrain from posting at all. Even if I dislike lurkers, for once, I can say that the daychat would be better without you.

yo sen look Sen: he seems to want to lynch someone and wants to tunnel on one of the lurkers which seems scummy IMO wanting to lynch and seems to have the most posts.

RLVG: wants to duel and lurk 2 combinations that a scum would want to stay out of the spot light and watch town duel away i would lynch this scummy character ASAP

Titus: does not want to duel 2 scummy people or duel at all most likely because she is scum wanting not to be put into pressure IMO

[Hypersniper]

and wtf is 4chan

[Hypersniper]

and i get that alot
The daychat would be better without you

[Titus]

Hypersniper

I will almost certainly duel at some point. Your statement was either a huge reading comprehension fail or a misrep.

[Sinclair]

Yeah sorry I haven't posted much, I've been busy with my job and last night I bought Crusader Kings II and I was playing that all night :P

There's not much really I can say other than
Hypersniper

You gotta change your playstyle man, trolling around on D1 isn't good, especially when there are no PRs.

[Titus]

Hypersniper is at L-1 guys. Don't hammer. We should use the rest of the time to investigate.

[Hypersniper]

ahhhh no one hammer me let me defend

[Titus]

ahhhh no one hammer me let me defend

That was the idea of my post.

[RLVG]

I won't hammer.

[Hypersniper]

ok listen i stop trolling around ans here is a full analysis colour coded and all

Sen has proposed the idea of lynching lurkers at first i was in to that idea but now it just seems stupid as people lur for there own reasons but putting this aside he seems a legit town with the most content filled posts i have seen in the last 6 pages

Titus after and i quote
a huge reading comprehension fail i come to realise titus has a good amount of content filled posts that seem very town friendly

Banshis not much to say just a legit towns member(town friendly posts)

Orpz same as banshis

Ganondorf he only seems to have posted 4-7 times and his largest post was a defence against sen not got much of a read on him

Sinclair has not posted much at all cant get any read on him

Carolina started off with posts against ganondorf and defend a scummy person IMO then goes on and talks about dueling could be scum could not be scum

RLVG lurking,does not want to respond to much,,not wanting to contribute to answers scummy all round

[Sinclair]

I'll make it less stressful. My vote will go back before I leave though, just an FYI.

[Hypersniper]

and to that unvote

[RLVG]

RLVG lurking,does not want to respond to much,,not wanting to contribute to answers scummy all round

Do you see what I mean with that it is the best to simply lynch me?
If I am kept alive to the endgame, I'll be lynched for sure and the game will have town lose.

I joined to play, but as usual everyone points me as the obvious scum so I see no other way.

[Titus]

Hypersniper is flailing. Ignore it. He's basically just FoSing the strongest town he can and when that fails he goes for the easier lynch.

[CarolinaCrown]

Anyone else notice that 3/4 players he greened were players that voted him? He's pandering.

Also why do I get orange and the other "uncertains" get Grey??

[Sen]

I made a script to hide his posts. Just deactivated it to see this reply that you're commenting on, and... well, let's just say I'm hiding his posts once again.

Telling that I'm scum and then painting me as the most towny read is anything but what I asked him to do: to start making sense.
Also, gotta love his oh, so deep analysis which averages 1.5 lines per player.

Anyway, time to sleep a bit. Be back in a few... have a nice day.

[RLVG]

I made a script to hide his posts. Just deactivated it to see this reply that you're commenting on, and... well, let's just say I'm hiding his posts once again.

Why would you ignore the posts of someone?

[Ganondorf]

OK there are several things that need to be addressed, but I'm just gonna say right now that I think Hypersniper is confirmed town and I am 80% sure that Titus is mafia... regarding Titus:
A) He was the first to join my Sen baitwagon.
B) He was very anti-duel early on in the day.
C) He's been trying to undo his anti-duel status recently.
D) He jumped on the "Hypersniper is troll = lynch" bandwagon and has been trying his hardest to see him lynched (it's important to note that, until now, Hypersniper has really been the only one to question Titus's town status in a previous post). Although Hypersniper seems to have revoked his accusation of Titus, I think he was on to something and I certainly want to see it through either today or tomorrow. Honestly, Hypersniper has contributed more than many of you can claim...

Titus

[CarolinaCrown]

OK there are several things that need to be addressed, but I'm just gonna say right now that I think Hypersniper is confirmed town and I am 80% sure that Titus is mafia... regarding Titus:
A) He was the first to join my Sen baitwagon.
B) He was very anti-duel early on in the day.
C) He's been trying to undo his anti-duel status recently.
D) He jumped on the "Hypersniper is troll = lynch" bandwagon and has been trying his hardest to see him lynched (it's important to note that, until now, Hypersniper has really been the only one to question Titus's town status in a previous post). Although Hypersniper seems to have revoked his accusation of Titus, I think he was on to something and I certainly want to see it through either today or tomorrow. Honestly, Hypersniper has contributed more than many of you can claim...

Titus

I had my suspicions at first but this seems to seal the deal: I'm pretty confident Ganondorf and Hyper are the mafia. Titus was never "anti-duel," he just wanted to use them at his own discretion as opposed to the whole town's. Not to mention Titus isn't one to jump on any wagon without good justification, especially one as early as yours.

Hypersniper

If anyone wants me to take the pressure off, I will, but I have a very strong feeling that these two are your scum.

[Ganondorf]

As far as RLVG is concerned, I agree that he is scummy but not because of the standard "lurker = scum" logic that seems to be flying around. For me, it's more because he seems to be dodging questions and altogether trying to avoid taking a side. Frankly, though, I can't help but feel like, if he's a mafioso, then this is too easy...

Honestly, Hypersniper's post #107 is one of the best posts in the game so far IMO. Although the comment on RLVG was hardly original, I completely agree with his comments on Sen and Titus (especially Titus). I am disappointed, however, that he seems to have revoked them in a later post.

While I would like Sinclair to be more active, I again state that I am fine with people living lives outside of FM: just please don't join ill-conceived, foolish bandwagons.

Carolina, as far as me "defining exactly what does and doesn't make a scum," these are just my reasons for why people stand out to me as scummy. They are most certainly not definitions of what scum is or isn't, but they are justifications for why I point my FoS at someone. Further, it's only natural that I would not behave in a way that I would classify as "scummy" because the same behavior preferences which cause me to call someone out also dictate my own playstyle. While I agree that it is fishy that people were so quick to write me off as town, I don't agree with your particular train of thought (or your vote).


PS: If I refer to any of you as a male when you are in fact female, please forgive me: I have an inbred assumption that anyone on a SC2Mafia forum must be male (did the same thing to philie a while back).

[Ganondorf]

I had my suspicions at first but this seems to seal the deal: I'm pretty confident Ganondorf and Hyper are the mafia. Titus was never "anti-duel," he just wanted to use them at his own discretion as opposed to the whole town's. Not to mention Titus isn't one to jump on any wagon without good justification, especially one as early as yours.

Hypersniper

If anyone wants me to take the pressure off, I will, but I have a very strong feeling that these two are your scum.

A) This would be the most obvious buddying ever: I played in 11 forum mafias, you have to at least give me some credit :P
B) Titus may never has blatantly said "I don't want to use duels", but he certainly hinted at it and tried to steer us away from discussing it:
Post #4: "I would say it's best to save duels for when we have more information. Regardless of how someone behaves, I say no duels day 1. If we had a duel go south and a mislynch, we'd be down to four to two. Numbers are our friends right now. The duel is a tool. Ideally it would be used, if we know one person or the other is scum." (have fun "knowing" someone is scum with this setup, especially if Titus starts casting doubts)
Post #33: "The next person who posts about duel usage, mafia tactics or anything else setup related without significant behavioral analysis is getting voted."
Post #36: "Then worry about the duels. This game is winnable even if we never duel."
C) Titus has jumped on the 2 major bandwagons this game: Sen's and Hypersniper's, both without much reasoning (Sen: LETS SCUMHUNT, Hypersniper: no reason given, but followed up by a comment about dueling).
D) How is dueling at his own discretion (as opposed to the whole town's) a good thing? There is literally no reason why we shouldn't discuss duels 'together' (the word you are so fond of) before they are initiated.

[Hypersniper]

OK there are several things that need to be addressed, but I'm just gonna say right now that I think Hypersniper is confirmed town and I am 80% sure that Titus is mafia... regarding Titus:
A) He was the first to join my Sen baitwagon.
B) He was very anti-duel early on in the day.
C) He's been trying to undo his anti-duel status recently.
D) He jumped on the "Hypersniper is troll = lynch" bandwagon and has been trying his hardest to see him lynched (it's important to note that, until now, Hypersniper has really been the only one to question Titus's town status in a previous post). Although Hypersniper seems to have revoked his accusation of Titus, I think he was on to something and I certainly want to see it through either today or tomorrow. Honestly, Hypersniper has contributed more than many of you can claim...

Titus

are you refering to my Titus: does not want to duel 2 scummy people or duel at all most likely because she is scum wanting not to be put into pressure IMO

you know what fuck pressure and fuck titus Titus and thanks ganon for defending me RLVG and titus are most likely maf GG

[Titus]

@Gan, I am not anti-duel. I am anti-duel day 1 due to the lack of information. No one at this point in the game should feel comfortable enough to take a risk with their own life that the other person is scum.

The first vote did have a reason, to start us down the behavioral analysis line of thinking that we are now on.

Note the Obvious buddy by Hypersniper here "thanks for defending me".


Also, I'm a girl too. :)

[Hypersniper]

ok then you can say Carolina and RLVG are buddying

[Hypersniper]

Lurking doesn't have to be a strategy, it can just be a play style. At the risk of looking like
I'm defending RLVG (because I kind of am), it's his prerogative how involved he wants to get. In an ideal world, everyone contributes as much as they can, but if RLVG has a history of lurking then it's not really a symptom of scumminess - it's just how he plays.

as said right here the bit highlighted in red

[Hypersniper]

orpz is here your thoughts on past posts

[Orpz]

I dislike Hypersniper's "I'm Town every game so I'm Town this game" and the fact that he has acted scummy and trolls to cover it up. But then, I also like how he's taking the game more seriously when he's being FoS'd for trolling. That is a Town tell.
That being said, I find Titus to be scummier because early on, she was the most intent on not discussing a part of the game that would yield much information. She tried to derail after I pointed out how I thought it was beneficial. Scum is definitely between one of them, based on how quickly the defenses and votes flew off. Right now, I'm thinking Titus is the scum. I would suggest a duel, but what do you guys think?

[Orpz]

I also feel Carolina is also a Mafia. His buddying with both Titus and RLVG seems to reflect the mindset of a Mafioso defending a Mafia buddy, or looking to earn Town points by either saying people he knows are Town, rather than a Citizen. Also, the fetishization of the word "together". I don't think that's really as scummy as you guys say, but it is scummy.

[Titus]

unvote

Yeah, his latest posts show he's trying and doesn't understand the concept of buddying.

Hyper - Buddying is when you're overly kind to someone or compliment them in an awkward way. This link (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying) explains the concept in more detail. Defending =/= Buddying.

@Orpz, I'll take another look at Carolina.

[CarolinaCrown]

I also feel Carolina is also a Mafia. His buddying with both Titus and RLVG seems to reflect the mindset of a Mafioso defending a Mafia buddy, or looking to earn Town points by either saying people he knows are Town, rather than a Citizen. Also, the fetishization of the word "together". I don't think that's really as scummy as you guys say, but it is scummy.

I won't defend the "together" thing since I've already addressed that. As for the buddying, I too got on RLVG's case after basically everyone requested that he be more active and he still lay low. I defended Titus from Ganondorf's accusations only because from what I've seen of her play, she doesn't have the kind of tells he accused her of. That's not to say I think she's a townie, I'm just dismissing arguments I think aren't valid. IMHO, Titus plays very carefully so it's difficult to get any kind of read on her, at least from Day 1.

@Titus, I don't know if a day 1 duel is any worse than a day 1 lynch. Obviously if we do anything today, we should only do one, but (depending on how the vote works, porio still hasn't answered my question), a duel may be the better of the two options.

[Hypersniper]

I got a gut feeling I want RLVG and Titus to duel or Titus and Carolina or RLVG and Carolina but I won't unless I think I have to

But I only agree on lynching and duelling are the same so why lynch but not duel

[Titus]

@Carolina, for all of your comments about doing something together, a lynch would be far superior to a duel, everyone would be giving their input as to who was scummy rather than a narrowly defined set of people because someone got hot headed.

@Hypersniper, you can't force any of us to duel. That's not how the mechanic works.

@Both, if I'm going to risk my game life in a duel that I start, it will be on my own terms. I'll be plenty active and communicative about my thoughts. Duels, IMO, are designed for when a player is extremely confident that someone else is scum but cannot convince the group of that fact. If I could get consensus that a player was scum, I wouldn't need to duel at all.

[CarolinaCrown]

@Carolina, for all of your comments about doing something together, a lynch would be far superior to a duel, everyone would be giving their input as to who was scummy rather than a narrowly defined set of people because someone got hot headed.

@Hypersniper, you can't force any of us to duel. That's not how the mechanic works.

@Both, if I'm going to risk my game life in a duel that I start, it will be on my own terms. I'll be plenty active and communicative about my thoughts. Duels, IMO, are designed for when a player is extremely confident that someone else is scum but cannot convince the group of that fact. If I could get consensus that a player was scum, I wouldn't need to duel at all.

Well, I'm talking about a duel whose participants are decided by the group. Everyone still gets to have input, before and after the duel is decided. And as far as I can tell, the only players who seem like candidates are you, me, Hyper, and RLVG, so the "narrowing" doesn't narrow things much further than they already are anyway.

[CarolinaCrown]

Carolina, for all of your comments about doing something together, a lynch would be far superior to a duel, everyone would be giving their input as to who was scummy rather than a narrowly defined set of people because someone got hot headed.

Hypersniper, you can't force any of us to duel. That's not how the mechanic works.

Both, if I'm going to risk my game life in a duel that I start, it will be on my own terms. I'll be plenty active and communicative about my thoughts. Duels, IMO, are designed for when a player is extremely confident that someone else is scum but cannot convince the group of that fact. If I could get consensus that a player was scum, I wouldn't need to duel at all.

Well, I'm talking about a duel whose participants are decided by the group. Everyone still gets to have input, before and after the duel is decided. And as far as I can tell, the only players who seem like candidates are you, me, Hyper, and RLVG, so the "narrowing" doesn't narrow things much further than they already are anyway.

[CarolinaCrown]

It's those got-damn @s, I can't put them in a quote without the post getting messed up :P

[RLVG]

Duel: Titus

[RLVG]

Either of us has to fall now. Since everyone think of me as scum for the wrong reasons, it is beneficial for me to be cleared out of the possible scum list.

As for Titus, I don't really trust her either.

[Titus]

Great. RLVG I had you pegged as town. This sucks.

[Titus]

No Duel Death

[Hypersniper]

Listen Titus you don't want to duel Because your A MAFIA wanting to not be out in pressure I would duel you but I think more people would lynch me then you

Btw if someone duels you you can't deny the duel

[RLVG]

No Duel Death

Is that possible? It only says I have to initiate a Duel to make it happen.

[Hypersniper]

No Duel Death

Omg RLVG has dueled Titus

U can't have a no duel death

titus

[Poriomania]

Hypersniper (2):
Sen, CarolinaCrown
Titus (2):
Hypersniper, Ganondorf

It didn't take long for things to get started. People started to accuse Hypersniper and Titus of being the insidious outlaws before RLVG shows up out of thin air. He points a scraggly finger at Titus. "I bet it was you, you no-good outlaw!"

"Oh yeah?!" Titus says, as she raises her pistol...

A duel has been initiated! RLVG challenges Titus to battle. The votecount has been reset and will only count votes between Titus and RLVG.


With 7 voting it is 4 votes to conclude the duel.

Keep in mind that you can skip to end the day with a no lynch and no deaths.

[Titus]

You're kidding me. That leaves no good choices. RLVG is town, I'm town.

Please can we just skip the duel but still be able to lynch?

[Titus]

Please can we just skip the duel but still be able to lynch?

Sorry wrong format for a question.

[Hypersniper]

Ok hey RLVG here more bullets incase you miss

titus

[Poriomania]

Please can we just skip the duel but still be able to lynch?

Sorry wrong format for a question.

You cannot.

[Hypersniper]

Titus wants no duel because he is scum being pressured

[CarolinaCrown]

If the day ends with no decision, do both players live or does the player with more votes get killed?

[Titus]

Ok hey RLVG here more bullets incase you miss

He voted me

You seem really hungry for my death here. RLVG just royally got us off on the wrong foot here. There's no scum in this duel unless I totally read RLVG wrong.

[Poriomania]

If the day ends with no decision, do both players live or does the player with more votes get killed?

Both players live.

[Hypersniper]

You seem really hungry for my death here. RLVG just royally got us off on the wrong foot here. There's no scum in this duel unless I totally read RLVG wrong.

Listen you have been my FoS all game only a scum would say that now come up with a proper argument or I'm keeping my vote on you

P.S stop acting posh

[RLVG]

Both players live.

Seems legit, a duel with no loser.

[Titus]

Listen you have been my FoS all game only a scum would say that now come up with a proper argument or I'm keeping my vote on you

P.S stop acting posh

I'll talk how I normally talk. Thanks.

I'm not going to argue someone town is scum. I won't do it.

[Hypersniper]

Ahhh no defence ok ok

Porio may I have a gun to shoot this scummy son of a bitch

[Titus]

Ahhh no defence ok ok

Porio may I have a gun to shoot this scummy son of a bitch

If the end of the day gets close, if we're tied I may vote RLVG to ensure that we don't lose either of us, but no I'm not going to sabotage town just to live. That's not town at all. Those who gun for me will instead be outed as scum so something comes of this.

[Titus]

If the end of the day gets close, if we're not tied I may vote RLVG to ensure that we don't lose either of us, but no I'm not going to sabotage town just to live. That's not town at all. Those who gun for me will instead be outed as scum so something comes of this.

Fixed.

[Poriomania]

Ahhh no defence ok ok

Porio may I have a gun to shoot this scummy son of a bitch

Tone down the language please. Personal attacks are not allowed.

[RLVG]

How long does a Duel last?

[Poriomania]

How long does a Duel last?

Until it has concluded with someone being shot or the Day ends.

[CarolinaCrown]

See Titus? This is the kind of shit we could have avoided if we'd agreed to use the duel as a group mechanic.

[RLVG]

1. Duel kills one, one get lynched. (2)
2. Duel kills one, no one get lynched. (1)
3. Duel kills no one, automatic no lynch. (0)

[Hypersniper]

Tone down the language please. Personal attacks are not allowed.

Ok sorry

[Hypersniper]

1. Duel kills one, one get lynched. (2)
2. Duel kills one, no one get lynched. (1)
3. Duel kills no one, automatic no lynch. (0)

I pick num 2

[Titus]

I pick num 2

Only scum would pick option 2. A lynch, or even the threat of one is very beneficial.

[Sinclair]

Sorry I forgot to vote before I got to work.

But I am very tempted to duel hyper lol. Hes getting quite obnoxious.

[Banshis]

Ok well it looks like I missed a lot and a random duel has popped up.

RLVG Balancing it out so hypersniper doesn't decide the duel. I'm glad to see more people FoS Carolina though. I had him pegged at about neutral leaning town, but I was still watching his posts. I find it very gutsy that RLVG was the one who started the duel and it makes him look more town since he knows he has a good chance at getting lynched. I don't necessarily see Titus as pure scum and it seems it kind of came randomly. I'd prefer for this duel to end without anyone dying since it isn't exactly the best pairing. Hypersniper first FoS'd Titus and then he changed his thoughts that Titus was town. When someone else FoS'd Titus, Hypersniper immediately changed back to Titus being scum. Hypersniper is being pushed around and sheeping onto every accusation.

[Hypersniper]

Ok well it looks like I missed a lot and a random duel has popped up.

RLVG Balancing it out so hypersniper doesn't decide the duel. I'm glad to see more people FoS Carolina though. I had him pegged at about neutral leaning town, but I was still watching his posts. I find it very gutsy that RLVG was the one who started the duel and it makes him look more town since he knows he has a good chance at getting lynched. I don't necessarily see Titus as pure scum and it seems it kind of came randomly. I'd prefer for this duel to end without anyone dying since it isn't exactly the best pairing. Hypersniper first FoS'd Titus and then he changed his thoughts that Titus was town. When someone else FoS'd Titus, Hypersniper immediately changed back to Titus being scum. Hypersniper is being pushed around and sheeping onto every accusation.

I changed my FoS because I was put under pressure by virtually everybody and they all thought Titus was town and I knew people wouldn't change there vote on me so I put Titus in he green zone really though I'm not sheeping I started thinking Titus is scum then hhan joined then orpz.

[Banshis]

If Hypersniper isn't mafia then he will most likely be left alive to the end so scum could manipulate him since he just goes with everything. I'm going to read the accusations on Titus right now in more detail.

[Banshis]

Does the duel end when 4 votes are on a person or when there have been 4 votes? Like 2 votes vs 2 votes

[Poriomania]

Does the duel end when 4 votes are on a person or when there have been 4 votes? Like 2 votes vs 2 votes

Four votes are on a person.

[Sinclair]

Ah I didn't see RLVG dueled titus.

Well, I'm going with a hunch.

RLVG

I feel that RLVG sort of dueled in hopes that the town will piggy back on the thought that titus can't be town every game and her "weird behavior".

RP:

Psst, Titus, here. Its a silver bullet with RLVGs name stamped on it. Don't miss. *smiles*

[Banshis]

I do see that Titus is kind of scummy because usually when she is scum she will accuse people for some small things and be kind of harsh. *Look at Porio's Signature*

It also shows in this post.

Hypersniper is flailing. Ignore it. He's basically just FoSing the strongest town he can and when that fails he goes for the easier lynch.

I'm not making an quick decisions right now.

@Ganondorf- Saying Hypersniper is Confirmed Town because of his FoS on Titus is stretched too much. You can say he is likely town, but saying he is confirmed town because of a FoS that we don't even know is on a mafia then it seems like Buddying and Hyper did buddy back on you. I haven't played with you before though so it might just be your thought process.

[Banshis]

Also Ganondorf the first person to join on your bandwagon was Hypersniper, but he masked it with *RANDOM VOTE* It is clear it wasn't random though.

[Titus]

@Banshis, I played as town even when scum in that game. You'll also notice my comment was right. CmG was the Union Official. My whole plan was to bus a UO (who we were unaware of) and if it failed y'all would lynch town thinking they were my allies. It worked pretty well. So do be careful how you use my meta.

[Banshis]

Both players live.

Oh I missed that. So if no one gets 4 votes then no one will die.

[Banshis]

@Banshis, I played as town even when scum in that game. You'll also notice my comment was right. CmG was the Union Official. My whole plan was to bus a UO (who we were unaware of) and if it failed y'all would lynch town thinking they were my allies. It worked pretty well. So do be careful how you use my meta.

I see what you mean, but after Ganondorf turned the train off of Hypersniper your train was just rushed and now you are in a duel. It seems like a lot of people think you are scum or they are just sheeping onto you.

[CarolinaCrown]

Guys, RLVG raises a point: people think he's scummy so if he IS town, it may be better to deal with him sooner rather than later so we're not so caught up in this particular issue late game.

[Banshis]

are you refering to my Titus: does not want to duel 2 scummy people or duel at all most likely because she is scum wanting not to be put into pressure IMO

you know what fuck pressure and fuck titus Titus and thanks ganon for defending me RLVG and titus are most likely maf GG

This I think is very scummy. He is all confident since Ganondorf turned the train off of him and now he is acting like he is proven town. I seriously don't trust Hypersniper.

[Poriomania]

Oh I missed that. So if no one gets 4 votes then no one will die.

Indeed.

[Hypersniper]

Ahhhh ok I check what has happened and

Banshis is defending Titus and Titus is scummy maybe just maybe I'm on to something here

Anyways there's 7 people 3 defending Titus

So 4 remain I wonder how this turns out

[Hypersniper]

Oh ganon is here eat do u have to say about are current situation

[Ganondorf]

Umm.... what? I was expecting things to get interesting between CarolinaCrown, Titus, Hypersniper, and myself (they actually didn't really), but I was not expecting the duel. I'm just going to preface this all by saying that while I think this setup is cool and challenging, I don't think it really makes sense for a duel to end with no one dead.

That being said, I am very much on the fence about how I want this duel to end. I don't really believe that RLVG is scummy, and if he is I seeeeeeeeeeeriously question why he began this duel in the first place with almost everyone labeling him as scum. I don't really believe that him dying in a duel would give much information other than ("wow, he was just a really bad and ballsy mafioso"/"see, lurkers aren't always scum"). Titus, however, I am very back-and-forth about. As I said before, she is my #1 mafioso suspect so far this game (by far) and I am more sure than not that she will flip mafioso when she dies, but it's still freakin' day 1 and we don't even have a mafia kill to look at for more information. I am stuck with two options. Do I vote for Titus, assuming that she is a mafioso or at least hoping that the events surrounding her on Day 1 will help find future mafia? Do I not vote for Titus and wait to see who the mafia kills on Night 1 (knowing full well it could be me) so that we can make a more educated decision tomorrow? I'm leaning towards the former right now, but since we have until 9 PM I'm going to wait before casting a vote...

By the way, I don't believe that CarolinaCrown is scum. While I am slightly insulted that he does not trust me, confused about why he doesn't think my reasons for suspecting Titus are valid (explain please), and irritated by the emphasis on the word 'together' in earlier posts, CarolinaCrown hardly strikes me as evil. I don't think that, if CarolinaCrown was scum, he would buddy up with Titus so hard or make enemies of myself for no reason.

Actually, the person who I am looking at as a possible second mafioso is Banshis right now. I had Banshis on my watch list as of about page 2, but I didn't feel it necessary or advantageous to reveal my suspicions until more information was obtained (or until the results of the Titus pressure came back). More recently, though, I find the vote for RLVG very odd, and the reasoning with Hypersniper controlling the lynch flawed (since it takes 4 to win a duel, not Hypersniper alone). Also, I felt like the post about Hypersniper being left alive until the end was unnecessary: he could be setting himself up to kill Hypersniper and therefore suggest that he isn't mafia because he was wrong. I'm nowhere near as confident about this as I am with Titus, but it's a hunch...


EDITS AFTER NEW POSTS:
A) Banshis, there was a reason why I labeled Hypersniper as 'confirmed town' and you stumbled upon it. I don't, however, believe Hypersniper is scum yet. Just.... worthy of keeping an eye on (I'm still impressed by the Titus thing).
B) Also to Banshis, you are beginning to go against Titus, which is lessening my suspicion of you, and you revoked the vote. However, I still think you're trying to keep him alive too much.

[Ganondorf]

Hypersniper, I've been trying to talk since post #180, but too many posts have stopped me from doing so.

[Banshis]

Ahhhh ok I check what has happened and

Banshis is defending Titus and Titus is scummy maybe just maybe I'm on to something here

Anyways there's 7 people 3 defending Titus

So 4 remain I wonder how this turns out

Give us a full read on why you think Titus is scummy. Don't just copy what other people think and don't just make it a one liner. I still find you very scummy and just because the person who writes the lengthiest posts defended you doesn't make you confirmed town.


Oh ganon is here eat do u have to say about are current situation

That grammar...

[Banshis]

B) Also to Banshis, you are beginning to go against Titus, which is lessening my suspicion of you, and you revoked the vote. However, I still think you're trying to keep him alive too much.

Yea I have my own FoS on Titus since she usually acts out when she is being FoS'd if she is scum and it may seem that I am trying to defend her too much, but after you defended Hypersniper the train on Titus got launched really quick. I feel like RLVG is town for the reason he challenged the duel which isn't something scum will do when people aren't telling him to do the duel.

[Ganondorf]

Sinclair, I just don't see RLVG as the kind of player who would take such a massive (and, if I may add, unnecessary) risk on day 1 if he was a mafioso. There are so many reasons not to duel as RLVG if he was a mafioso: the town thinks you're scummy, you could wait until night to discuss with your other mafioso strategy, the town won't like that you decided this all on your own, etc.

[Ganondorf]

I am still not 100% on this, but I think I am going to cast my vote for Titus (possibility of being revoked later as new events arise):

Titus

The train on Titus did begin rather quickly, but I believe that's because people realized that the train on Hypersniper was really unsupported and irrational. At the same time, people realized that they had been writing Titus off as town for a long time without really looking into it. Sure, I think this town is rather sheepish in nature, but luckily people have still spoken enough to give good information on nearly everyone (I want to know more about Sinclair and Orpz tbh).

Two things you should all be aware of (in case you aren't already): 1) I tend to talk in walls of text, and 2) I'm pretty much always online because I leave the forum open on my laptop during daylight hours.

[Banshis]

Hypersniper

I will almost certainly duel at some point. Your statement was either a huge reading comprehension fail or a misrep.

The first time Titus was accused she called Hyper out for ^. This can be taken as manipulation too since it literally caused Hypersniper to to peg Titus as town and forsake his FoS on Titus until Ganondorf backed Hypersniper up.



Titus after and i quote i come to realise titus has a good amount of content filled posts that seem very town friendly


That is his change.

[Titus]

The first time Titus was accused she called Hyper out for ^. This can be taken as manipulation too since it literally caused Hypersniper to to peg Titus as town and forsake his FoS on Titus until Ganondorf backed Hypersniper up.



That is his change.

I wish I could quote that. Hypersniper was misrepping me. Notice he didn't say he miscompehended me, only that my posts generally were now good. He is on my train because he thinks it's a mislynch. No onedoes 180s scum to town to scum that fast.

[Hypersniper]

I dident 180 you were scum from the start but after I got on l-1 I got afraid if I put up my FoS I would get lynched due to people think your town so I pegged u as town until I knew someone wasent thinking Titus was town which was ganon

Well I think your scum Titus because of mainly 2 things

1:at the start u derailed the disscussion about duel and refused to use them then say
we could win without using duels implying that we shouldn't use duels.

2: complete lack of defence,you started defending when a you was being lynched yes but when u got dueled you had a complete lack if defence and lets banshis defend you

[Titus]

I dident 180 you were scum from the start but after I got on l-1 I got afraid if I put up my FoS I would get lynched due to people think your town so I pegged u as town until I knew someone wasent thinking Titus was town which was ganon

Well I think your scum Titus because of mainly 2 things

1:at the start u derailed the disscussion about duel and refused to use them then say implying that we shouldn't use duels.

2: complete lack of defence,you started defending when a you was being lynched yes but when u got dueled you had a complete lack if defence and lets banshis defend you

1. You are reading things into my posts. I never said we shouldn't use duels, just that it was possible to win without them.

2. That's a lie. I am not going to OMGUS someone who duels me. I had responded to all prior posts before that.

[Hypersniper]

I'm talking about everybody in general once the duel started not just RLVG

[Titus]

I'm talking about everybody in general once the duel started not just RLVG

So... the fact I didn't FoS everyone means I am scummy? I am not understanding here.

[Ganondorf]

Estimated time until day-end: 3 hours and 53 minutes.

I am going to make another push for the Titus lynch on two main grounds:
1) RLVG does not appear to be scum. Most of the reasons for people calling him scum were on account of his lurking playstyle, so a lynch on RLVG wouldn't even reveal much information.
2) Titus does appear to be scum. I have given what I believe to be several good reasons for questioning the loyalty of Titus, and I don't think his responses have been adequate. Titus has been tied to several players already this game (CarolinaCrown, Banshis, Hypersniper, myself, etc) and a lynch on him would reveal a lot about related players.

[Hypersniper]

With only 9 players I suggest we lynch everyday I matter what including today

[Titus]

What do you feel is left unanswered?

[Sen]

Why would you ignore the posts of someone?

He's cluttering the daychat, making it unpleasant for me to read it. His posts are spam and that makes it harder to analyze what really matters.



As far as RLVG is concerned, I agree that he is scummy but not because of the standard "lurker = scum" logic that seems to be flying around.
I've already mentioned it many times, but you choose to ignore it:
It's not about the quantity of replies, it's about the quality. it doesn't matter if Hypersniper posts a thousand times a day; he's done nothing but spam, mislead or merely repeat what others say. That's the opposite of contributing.



Titus has jumped on the 2 major bandwagons this game: Sen's and Hypersniper's
Even if I found her reason quite dull, I wouldn't place her vote on me on the bandwagon list: she said she would vote the next one who talked about duels without adding analysis of some sort.
I ignored it because seriously, noone is telling me what I can or not discuss during the day.
That said, from my little experience with her, I've seen that she's always a bit bossy and tries to control the daychat. What's important here is that she isn't posting misleading stuff and that her contributions have been townish, independently of her tone.

-------------------------

Gotta love how RLVG challenged Titus after noticing that he could get Ganondorf and Hypersinper on his wagon.

Also, don't you all love the timing? Day is about to end, he challenges Titus knowing that the only way for both of them to live is with a no-lynch and then suggests to do exactly that. Pff.

RLVG

[RLVG]

Gotta love how RLVG challenged Titus after noticing that he could get Ganondorf and Hypersinper on his wagon.

Also, don't you all love the timing? Day is about to end, he challenges Titus knowing that the only way for both of them to live is with a no-lynch and then suggests to do exactly that. Pff.

1. I did not notice that.
2. The timing, I did not check the time actually.

[Hypersniper]

Ok bitches I'm back just read sens post and may I say fuck you I really think sen is tunnelling RLVG wanting him lynched well if Titus flips town I suicude if RLVG is town we lynch sen

[Hypersniper]

Oh porio this is not a personal attack on sen brw

[Titus]

1. I did not notice that.
2. The timing, I did not check the time actually.

One of the things that makes me respect you is that you are very observant, so I think this is a lie or you are getting careless.

[RLVG]

One of the things that makes me respect you is that you are very observant, so I think this is a lie or you are getting careless.

Slightly distracted, if anything.

[CarolinaCrown]

RLVG convince me why I shouldn't vote for you.

Titus I already know your argument.

[Orpz]

I just got home. I don't believe RLVG is scum, actually. He supposedly "lurked" and we called him out for that, but when I think about it, he has been pretty active in conversations.

Titus has been a main FoS for me, I've explained already, and since it's near the end of the day, I'm going to follow my gut on this one and put her at L-1
Titus

[Orpz]

Estimated time until day-end: 3 hours and 53 minutes.

I am going to make another push for the Titus lynch on two main grounds:
1) RLVG does not appear to be scum. Most of the reasons for people calling him scum were on account of his lurking playstyle, so a lynch on RLVG wouldn't even reveal much information.
2) Titus does appear to be scum. I have given what I believe to be several good reasons for questioning the loyalty of Titus, and I don't think his responses have been adequate. Titus has been tied to several players already this game (CarolinaCrown, Banshis, Hypersniper, myself, etc) and a lynch on him would reveal a lot about related players.

I don't understand this reasoning on RLVG. You think he's Town because lynching him wouldn't reveal anything?

[Titus]

Orpz, if I was scum, why wouldn't I vote RLVG?


My last will: Lynch hypersniper, then look at Orpz. Minimal suspicion of RLVG but nowhere near enough to vote him.

[Orpz]

Orpz, if I was scum, why wouldn't I vote RLVG?


My last will: Lynch hypersniper, then look at Orpz. Minimal suspicion of RLVG but nowhere near enough to vote him.

Duelists can't vote. That's a terrible defense.

[Sen]

Orpz, if I was scum, why wouldn't I vote RLVG?
Duelists can't vote each other. The duel is decided by the votes of those not taking part of the active duel.

[Titus]

Ok my bad, why wouldn't I encourage votes on RLVG? Point's the same without the technicality.

[Ganondorf]

I don't understand this reasoning on RLVG. You think he's Town because lynching him wouldn't reveal anything?

No, I said I don't think he's scum AND lynching him wouldn't reveal much (certainly not as much as Titus would, whom I also believe is scum).

Titus, it's not that I feel you didn't answer questions of mine, it's just that I found your response to my accusation suspicious. After I voted you and Orpz got off of the Hypersniper bandwagon, you were quick to abandon ship yourself and pretty much do a complete 180:

Post #124:

Hypersniper is flailing. Ignore it. He's basically just FoSing the strongest town he can and when that fails he goes for the easier lynch.

Post #139:

unvote

Yeah, his latest posts show he's trying and doesn't understand the concept of buddying.

Hyper - Buddying is when you're overly kind to someone or compliment them in an awkward way. This link (http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Buddying) explains the concept in more detail. Defending =/= Buddying.

@Orpz, I'll take another look at Carolina.

After that, you posted one more time and then RLVG challenged you to a duel, after which you entered the "RLVG is town, I'm town" doldrums and asked that no one die. You seemed adamant that RLVG was not scum, but you never really gave a reason: you just seemed intent that the duel go nowhere (which would consequently deny the town a lynch at the same time, which is funny because you actually pointed that out despite your previous remarks).

[Sen]

I said that we would see how much my list changed during the day.

Ganondorf managed to find his way to the bottom when he started defending Hypersniper because he's done some of the best contributions (seriously, a popup ad would contribute more to this and be less spammy than hypersinper), but especially for trying to tunnel Titus under nonsense accusations which have already been easily countered multiple times and by three or four different players.

On RLVG: It's funny that I mostly listed him on my early scumlist to incite him to start contributing, but he seriously fucked up with the duel.

That said, I still think that Ganondorf and Hypersniper are the scum: Hypersniper would go with the obvious sheeping and "thanks for protecting me" replies he's already made, since it's clear that he's little experienced in this and tends to go for the obvious move.
On the other hand, Ganondorf defending Hypersniper with that lame excuse was perhaps the scummiest move of the day. Hiding it behind a layer of WIFOM and pretending that he wouldn't be that obvious isn't enough for me, especially since he keeps trying to tunnel on Titus after he's been proven wrong.

Carolina and Titus stay at the top of my town list. Both of them have been consistent with their contributions and haven't given me a reason to move them from there.
If anything, Carolina got a bit greener and Titus made me frown when she went for the no-lynch option and then said that RLVG was town. Sounded to me like a "look, I'm Town since I'm not trying to get him lynched", which is a bit weird, since Titus rarely tries to gain town points in such fashion. But still, I believe she's Town.

Sinclair hasn't given any analysis during the whole day, which made me move him to the red side, but him not jumping into the Titus train bumped him back into the greay zone.

Orpz is slowly moving into the red zone. He triggered a couple of alarms when he added my two most townish reads to his scumlist, and now that he's placing Titus at L-1. I also don't like that he's been laying so low and seems to be getting away with it. So far, I think not a single person has questioned him.

I have Banshis colored with a yellow-green tone. He's posted some interesting stuff and contributed his share, but I don't like that he hasn't placed votes or pressure (other than his scumlist from earlier).

Carolina and Banshis , I summon thee!

Anyway, a couple of things.
- 1: This is why we had to discuss the duel and have an agreement before going on with the discussion.
- 2: Just proven two of my points: A) Scum can abuse the duel system by challenging someone late in the day. B) Rage-duels during the early game (and especially on d1) don't benefit the town in any way.

[Titus]

So you think that both me and RLVG are indeed scum. That theory is ludicrious. Scum wouldn't challenge a fellow scum to a duel on day 1.

I had a reason to get off the Hypersniper bandwagon at that point. However, Hypersniper continued misrepping (new actions) that caused me to get back on the train. Not a huge surprise there.

I cannot and will not argue against someone I believe to be town. There is a minimal theory (that I am unpersuaded by) that RLVG is scum due to the timing of his duel. I'd want to see more. He has defended himself and explained himself. He also hadn't voted for me, because I believe he wants to out the scum to force them to get on the bandwagon to have a lynch at all.

Ergo, scum cannot convince two town, we no lynch and the scum might expose themselves.

RLVG is making bold moves I cannot see scum making at all.


@Sen, I don't try to gain points. If I am lynched, people will see that I am not lying and I genuinely did what I thought was best for the town. If I am not, I will continue to play logically (because let's be real here, I doubt scum is killing me).

[Banshis]

RLVG

Sorry I was busy making a S-FM. I still think killing RLVG or Titus will end up killing a town. I am pretty sure that they are both town for different reasons, but Titus always tries to take control in a day when she is a citizen. I'm putting my vote on RLVG.

[CarolinaCrown]

Ha, well I guess it's all up to me then.

I'm casting a vote in 45 minutes. I will not abstain. I think it's likely one of you is scum, and even a mislynch can give us more info.

This is going to sound scummy, but a mislynch will also help my personal agenda either way. If Titus flops town, there's one less rogue vigilante around and we can start using the duels a little more responsibly. If RLVG flops town, then we don't have to worry about his inactivity.

You've got 45 minutes to give your best defenses.

[Titus]

Hmm, Carolina, just a note RLVG is every bit the threatened vigilante I am.

If you're going on a practical approach, I'm the better asset. I post more. Posting more means on the positive more logic and analysis. If you have doubts about my towniness, that's more opportunities to slip.

I cannot and will not make a case that RLVG is scum though however. If that means I die, well I was honorable town to the end.

[RLVG]

To be quite frank, I would not mind a duel. Knowing games, I have no way of defending myself during suspicion. I'm a Town.

Later when the votes are required, getting the wrong can lead to the game dying. I rather get myself done so I won't ruin the game for misinterprettion of tells and "lurking" when I am asleep.


Do you see what I mean with that it is the best to simply lynch me?
If I am kept alive to the endgame, I'll be lynched for sure and the game will have town lose.

I joined to play, but as usual everyone points me as the obvious scum so I see no other way.


Either of us has to fall now. Since everyone think of me as scum for the wrong reasons, it is beneficial for me to be cleared out of the possible scum list.

As for Titus, I don't really trust her either.

Simple quotes. I won't defend myself (any further?) since I already have had it explained.

It is up to the hammer, if there will be any.

[Orpz]

Orpz is slowly moving into the red zone. He triggered a couple of alarms when he added my two most townish reads to his scumlist, and now that he's placing Titus at L-1. I also don't like that he's been laying so low and seems to be getting away with it. So far, I think not a single person has questioned him.


I placed Titus at L-1 because I believe her to be scum, and I have justified myself.
Laying low isn't my goal at all. At the start of the day I was pushing a discussion topic and bringing up new points in subsequent posts. I always stick around to see if anyone responds to them, and if not, I leave the website and come back a bit. I don't think I lie low. I post everytime I come back, and I don't see my posts as active lurk posts.

[Titus]

Simple quotes. I won't defend myself (any further?) since I already have had it explained.

It is up to the hammer, if there will be any.

Wow that defense is a lot of self-vouching... maybe I'm getting this wrong about you being town.

[CarolinaCrown]

Ugh, I was hoping I'd be surprised, but you both have said EXACTLY what I expected you to. Welp 30 more minutes. Mind you, other townies, you can do your best to influence my vote as well.

[RLVG]

Wow that defense is a lot of self-vouching... maybe I'm getting this wrong about you being town.

Well, as said it is up for the hammer to decide. I'll flip town regardless, so I'll post my opinions.

1. Hypersniper
2. Sinclair
3. Orpz
4. Sen
5. Ganondorf
7. Titus
8. CarolinaCrown
9. Banshis

[Sen]

Mind you, other townies, you can do your best to influence my vote as well.
I'm not content with this duel. It was fucking dumb by RLVG to do it. I would've prefered to have Ganondorf of hypersniper taking part of it.

I've already stated my reasons for believing Titus is town. She's been pretty consistent with her contributions and isn't afraid of pointing fingers at scum (which is reflected on a couple of votes on her).

I have no evidence to paint RLVG as scum, but let's be honest, even after inviting and threating him to start contributing, he's kept his "I have nothing to say" attitude.

In a hypothetical scenario where both of them are Town and we have to lynch one of them, I'd rather keep Titus in the game. Not only because i have hed pegged as Town, but because she contributes way more than RLVG.


I post everytime I come back, and I don't see my posts as active lurk posts.

I didn't accuse you of lurking. I mean that you managed to go mostly unnoticed during the whole day: noone posted reads on you. People would reply to you after you post, but the rest of the day it seemed like you didn't exist.

I'm aware of you inviting to discussion a couple of times. What bothers me is that you were on my grey zone during most of the day, and being a midcontributor is a great way to blend in without exposing yourself.

[RLVG]

Ugh, I was hoping I'd be surprised, but you both have said EXACTLY what I expected you to. Welp 30 more minutes. Mind you, other townies, you can do your best to influence my vote as well.

Have you made your option yet? Lynch either of us or abstain.

[CarolinaCrown]

CarolinaCrown

[CarolinaCrown]

CRAP I mean

RLVG

[Poriomania]

The duel has concluded! Please wait while I prepare the scene.

[Poriomania]

Titus (3): Hypersniper, Ganondorf, Orpz
RLVG (4): Banshis, Sinclair, Sen, CarolinaCrown

Titus draws. RLVG hesitates. Titus shoots toxic through the chest and RLVG falls, gun still in his holster.

Searching his body, you find nothing that would indicate RLVG was an outlaw of any sort. It looks he'd never even fired his gun before. The real criminals are still among you.


RLVG was a Citizen.



With 8 alive it's 5 to lynch.

[Ganondorf]

Well, I can't say I'm surprised... I still don't know why you chose RLVG over Titus. RLVG was most likely town, whereas I continue to assert that Titus has a very probable chance of being a mafioso. The usefulness of this lynch is also far less than if we had lynched Titus and she had come up as a citizen. RIP RLVG: I'm sorry nobody loved you.

[Titus]

Hypersniper

My vote is back where it belongs. I would have preferred an abstain but I understand that would give us little information. So I respect that. RLVG put us in a rock and a hard place though.

[CarolinaCrown]

Hypersniper

My vote is back where it belongs. I would have preferred an abstain but I understand that would give us little information. So I respect that. RLVG put us in a rock and a hard place though.

I'm glad you understand, but don't think this makes us friends just yet.

[Ganondorf]

Oh, and it hardly matters anymore, but:

Titus

There's no time to put together a lynch, and I actually think lynching would be stupid at this point (2 day 1 deaths), but this is just my objection to the events that just transpired.

Frankly, I don't really care if you think I'm scum Sen: I refuse to call Hypersniper scum just because he trolls a bit. You forget: I come from the era of Narks, who trolled as both town and scum without prejudice. Hypersniper is nothing compared to Narks. Also, in regards to your WIFOM comment, a single layer of WIFOM is hardly enough to hide behind when you're in a 7v2 (now 6v2, soon to be 5v2) setup. You shouldn't be so put off by a bit of trolling that you are unwilling to see what Hypersniper has contributed through side-taking (and even through player analysis, even if it is only a line or two).

[Titus]

I'm glad you understand, but don't think this makes us friends just yet.

Of course not. I don't care if you like me, I just care if you're scumhunting and doing what's best for the town. Hence, my usual abrasive style of I'll do what I want.

[Titus]

Oh, and it hardly matters anymore, but:

Titus

There's no time to put together a lynch, and I actually think lynching would be stupid at this point (2 day 1 deaths), but this is just my objection to the events that just transpired.

Frankly, I don't really care if you think I'm scum Sen: I refuse to call Hypersniper scum just because he trolls a bit. You forget: I come from the era of Narks, who trolled as both town and scum without prejudice. Hypersniper is nothing compared to Narks. Also, in regards to your WIFOM comment, a single layer of WIFOM is hardly enough to hide behind when you're in a 7v2 (now 6v2, soon to be 5v2) setup. You shouldn't be so put off by a bit of trolling that you are unwilling to see what Hypersniper has contributed through side-taking (and even through player analysis, even if it is only a line or two).

You also shouldn't be quick to ignore his buddying and misreps though Ganondorf.

[Ganondorf]

You also shouldn't be quick to ignore his buddying and misreps though Ganondorf.

Don't be so quick to assume that Hypersniper is town to me: I'm just not going to hardtunnel on him and do everything in my power to disassociate with him.

[Titus]

Don't be so quick to assume that Hypersniper is town to me: I'm just not going to hardtunnel on him and do everything in my power to disassociate with him.

Your behavior naturally leads to that assumption. What is he to you then?

[Ganondorf]

Your behavior naturally leads to that assumption. What is he to you then?

He is neither town nor scum: he has not completely earned my trust, but he has contributed enough to keep my FoS off of him. That being said, I've got bigger fish to fry than Hypersniper. Out of curiosity, where does Banshis stand in your book? I'd also like to hear about Sinclair and Orpz, but that can wait until tomorrow.

Goodnight everybody...