Community Guide

[Poriomania]

Senekis and I are trying to cook up a "Community Guide (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Community_Guide)" which puts in writing what we have learned in SC2Mafia throughout the years.

Basically, I've found out that most of the SC2Mafia theory I know is basically through word of mouth and trial and error. Stuff like how to be a strong townie/scum, how to easily score wins as SK/Arsonist/Mass Murderer, who to doc protect at night, et al.

I don't think there's been a large body of this work actually written down, so me and Sen are trying to do it.

If you have any tips or pointers to share, please post! If it's good enough we'll add it into the Guide.

[kyle1234513]

if sheriff I would recommend holding off on the leads until the last possible night where you can out a mafia and still command the vote as town. (ie, you find mafia night one, you don't reveal day 2. instead you wait until day 5 when its 7 players remaining, 3 of them are mafia, 4 are townies) in this way you the sheriff has more nights to find potential evils and other mafia members, or confirm other people as not mafia.

escort, leave a detailed last will, stating who you roleblock each night, this way town can identify who is the serial killer very easily (if kills roleblockers is on) or say that "#4 is immune to roleblock" (likely godfather, or a veteran who chose not to alert)

theres lots I could tell you, but I think it would be best done in a PM due to sheer length and text size, if you want the info for each role.

[Damus_Graves]

Yes very true. Don't ever reveal day two when you are sheriff. Town automatically thinks your an executioner and nothing good comes of that. Good advice there Kyle. However I would say that revealing your information day three or four is much better than day 5 for example, however I would state day three reveal is best.

[Poriomania]

Don't leave it too late, though. In pubs, they mostly ignore last wills, so it's beyond infuriating to see you list someone as mafia when you die and town doesn't lynch him.

Don't mention that leaving scum alive can make them get into a voting block.

[kyle1234513]

most important pro tip in my book, lynch a mafia member before the neutral killer (unless its a late game arson) if they get outed on the same day. mafia can control votes way sooner than a neutral killer. and if you lynch the NK you hand mafia the victory because they will own the votes.

its like sure, you know both of them, and you can see 3-4 people voting for the NK quickly. its still far more important to make the mafia lose one of their own before the NK.

[Lazers]

are we suggesting tips in the context of pub games or with people who actually know how to play

[Poriomania]

theres lots I could tell you, but I think it would be best done in a PM due to sheer length and text size, if you want the info for each role.

Yeah, if you could provide them, then that would be great.

@Lazers: In the context of pub games. Most players will play more pub games than in house games, and we want to make this guide more accessible.

Then again, you can't really do much against pub stupidity.

[Raptorblaze]

Suspect the quiet ones first.

[Poriomania]

Suspect the quiet ones first.

/barn

When I'm sheriff or jailor I always target lurkers. Similarly, in most pubs, I can safely "clear" people who talk a lot as town.

[Lazers]

Suspect the quiet ones first.

Dammit I was going to say that

Uh, in the context of pub games, don't lynch someone who's being completely antagonistic to the town in the daytime. Only jesters and dipshits do that shit

[TheDarkestLight]

Note: When I say blackmail I don't mean the role.

Don't try to blackmail the town into a position of your favor like I did in the recent S-FM. If that had been a Mafia pub they would have just lynched me...

Basically just do your best to confuse the town or make yourself seem clean to them. Like having your consort not block anyone one night and then claim role blocked yourself.

Also don't ever put your hope in luck. The moment you do this is the moment you lose -except in pubs of course, because tell me how many pubbies don't put their hope in luck?-

[Titus]

/barn

When I'm sheriff or jailor I always target lurkers. Similarly, in most pubs, I can safely "clear" people who talk a lot as town.

This is a mistake whenever you play with me. I always talk. I just try to hide enough where I never have to claim, especially in a closed setup. Call it hiding in plain sight if you would.

[Poriomania]

Yeah, agreed. I always talk in any game, including games in which I am scum. But the majority of pub players lurk when they're scum, and this is meant to be a guide for pubs.

[AppleyNO]

I always reveal as sheriff Day two when I find someone. I have never been called executioner.

[TheDarkestLight]

I once literally went out as Executioner and said, that I was executioner and 14 was my target. They proceeded to lynch him even though the option for the target always being town was on...

[Poriomania]

Some random thoughts:

- As town I like to do the -skip trick. -skip and see who goes along with you. Then remove your skip and vote/check those players. It's likely that they are scum, because scum hate the Day phase and want to go to Night quickly. Obviously not 100% accurate, but a small way to use vote analysis to your favor. Same with random voting.

- If you're jailed and you're scum, claim some important town power role like sheriff (my no.1 go to). It's incredibly easy to fake it and will never get you executed.

- Be loud and vocal as town and scum. Never lurk. Lurking bad. Lurking can be good if you have an important town PR but in most games you will want to project your voice loud. Pressure people and generally try to figure out the game. As scum I know you can get decent mislynches off.

- If you're an investigative role, check the people who vote but don't talk. Most of the time they're scum.

- Fake death notes and last wills as scum. You can easily send the town on a wild goose chase.

- As scum, use the role list to falseclaim something and make a fake last will. This is probably the most crucial tip. I don't know how many times I've gotten an innocent verdict by saying my falseclaim and spamming my last will. It takes a bit of skill but it can save you out of some very tough spots.

[MrMostache]

Not revealing day 2 as sheriff is the biggest logic fallacy in pubs. You will be surprised how many people are paranoid of Executioners and Jesters.
Whenever I found an evil role, I reveal him, especially Serial Killer as killing him will reduce the kpn greatly. Do not wait until you get randomly disguised or sanitized.

[CmG]

Dunno man. I claim sheriff Day 2 all the time and still get my targets lynched. Are we playing the same game? Also NA < EU. NA is full with spammer, trolls and dimwits.
EU only has dimwits and sometimes trolls.


EDIT: Didn't work last game but earned me 64 roulette points from Necroplant :P

[Dagaen]

Few very basic tips:

- Always write LW, even when you are scum. If lynch happens suddenly or jailor will get you it's better to have smth already!
- If you are neutral benign role never claim it in jail. Big chance you will be executed.
- When you are Citizen/Crier/less important town role, you should be very active. Even if you get killed it's better than losing an investigator or sheriff.
- If you are Bus Driver and you can target self you should reveal and tell people your swaps every day. Otherwise you only help scum.
- Don't lynch on d2 if no Town died.
- Analyzing voice patterns is great way to tell who is Mafia in the late game.

[Sen]

Some opinions on what has been said so far:

On not claiming neutral when jailed.
When jailed, I always claim survivor (if the role is possible at all, that is) and I live 9/10 of the times.
I think last time I got executed after a survivor claim was by some failor who previously executed a sheriff.

- Role?
- I just need to survive.
Survivor.
Please let me live. I'll help you.

That last line is the key; no "I'll help town", since you might have been kidnapped. An "I'll help you" is always a powerful line in a game when you need as much allies as possible when trying to get someone lynched.

Day 2 Sheriff

There's nothing wrong with doing it; just as with executioners, most people will believe the first accusation they hear and just vote whoever gets voted first. They don't want to think, they want someone to lead them.

Making last wills as scum

Totally agree. Key to survive after being voted up.


Other random stuff:

When you're mafia and mayor or marshall reveals, always claim bodyguard. I've NEVER been voted up by mayor/marshall aftar claiming that role; they'll never risk the chance of lynching the only one who can protect them, especially if many protectives are already dead.

Never claim citizen, even if you are. That's auto lynch.

If you're scum and there's a confirmed jailor, always try to get someone lynched.

When you're escort and find the GF, don't call him out. Instead keep blocking him until invest roles find the rest of the mafia, since getting the GF lynched would allow other mafia members to kill.

As a vigilante, always play a troll/neutral role. You want mafia attention on someone else until you figure out who they are and can kill them.

As mafia, always discuss what role everyone will claim in case of trial/rolecall; there's nothing more ridiculous than having all mafia claim doctors when the mayor reveals.

As mafia, use false numbers to refer to others. ie; if your mafia are 3 & 9, say stuff like "hey, 11, frame #" or something. The framer will still get the message, and if there's a spy, he will leave a lw full of missinformation.

When you're town, always suspect the one who calls out the GF or neutral killer if one or two nights before there was a single kill; it's pretty common that dumb mafia or neutral killers try to fake invest roles by getting the other scum lynched.

If you're acussed on day two, don't get too defensive and instead call bullshit on whoever is acussing you. Stay calm and give some fake lead. There's nothing as suspicious as someone who gets overly defensive. There are a ton of roles you can fake on day two, so don't complicate it.

If you're a cit in a cult save, always ask the ML to recruit you n1.



------------------------------------------------

Anyway. It'd be nice if everyone edited that wiki page with some info on the role they play the best or something. Also, feel free to add stuff to what's already there.

[Raptorblaze]

Some random thoughts:

- As town I like to do the -skip trick. -skip and see who goes along with you. Then remove your skip and vote/check those players. It's likely that they are scum, because scum hate the Day phase and want to go to Night quickly. Obviously not 100% accurate, but a small way to use vote analysis to your favor. Same with random voting.


The problem here is you also tend to catch the Jailors and anyone who's opposed to random lynching that day :| but probably not a bad list to start. Hell I had one game where there were 3 jailors and someone accused us of being the entire mafia for this reason (we'd managed to find eachother the first couple days)

[Kirdaiht]

The guy who says "let the jailor jail" is often jailor himself. If you are mafia, you want to shoot this person

In the situation where the town has to correctly lynch every day and has no clues, check how long it takes from someone to go from the first random vote to being put on trial. If it takes a very long time, this person is most likely Mafia. If it's fast, this person is either neutral or town.

If you got the first mafia, look at the people who voted him to trial and the people who innoed/abstained. The mafia is unlikely to vote the mafia to trial, but once he's on trial, will generally abstain or guilty to appear less suspicious (Mafia innoing mafia is unlikely to happen). Check the people who didn't vote him to trial and abstained on the final vote.

If you are a serialkiller in jail and kill roleblockers, don't be afraid to tell him lies that you won't be able to keep up. The jailor dies when he lets you go, so the lies you tell in jail only have to be consistent with what the jailor knows. Mayor and/or Marshall works great.

If there is a witch and you are veteran, claiming, or implying vigilante is a good way to get her. You don't have to go on alert to catch her. If she tries to control you, you will automatically go on alert.

[Deantwo]

Saw the new page on the Wiki before I saw this thread, so let me quote what I wrote on the Wiki.

http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Community_Guide
I am not really liking the idea for this page so far. There is already a page for Town Strategies (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Town_Strategies) and each role's page also have some strategies listed. There is not really a huge need for the same information to be listed multiply places on the Wiki. What I'd suggest you use this page for would be, as the name suggests a "Community Guide (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Community_Guide)". Explain how a common game is run and what is mainstream, maybe even a few hints on what is considered a fair setup. - Deantwo (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=User:Deantwo) (Talk (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Deantwo)) 16:15, 29 June 2013 (PDT)

You are all coming with some great ideas and strategies, but making a super long page with a standard strategy for each role will just be silly. Much rather have we use the pages that are already in use or create some new strategy pages.

There is a number of Strategies (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Strategies) pages that have nothing on them, for example:

Counter-Claim Timing (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Counter-Claim_Timing)
Follow the Leader (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Follow_the_Leader)
Driver Baiting (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/index.php?title=Driver_Baiting)
etc.

[Poriomania]

@Deantwo: I disagree on this point.

I would rather redirect one person to a page that has good information rather than saying "use the wiki" which is a lot more vague.

Also, I'm reviving this. I'll try to write in some more info this weekend.