S-FM 88 : Containment

[Damus_Graves]

Setup (http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/20107-S-FM-Containment)


The Day it all Went to Hell:
They say that the eyes are the windows to the soul. You can see someone's entire life through their peepers. Sometimes I wonder if their not right...It seems like everyone in this prison can't keep a straight face half the time. There is so much rage leaking out of their pupils. The worst eyes on the block belongs to Rycan, a three peater who hadn't slowed down his rampage in time to keep from massacring his own family. This guy is just bloody nuts, makes everyone else keep ten feet away...Not even the guards can keep themselves from wetting their breeches when he looks at em. Seems like he got a grudge against each an' every one of em people in this prison...me included. They say the eyes are the windows to the soul...its that's true his soul are the worst of them all....

Player List:
NoctiZ
Creedkingsx
Clementine
Titus
Dagaen
Poriomania
RLVG

Let the games begin...




Day One Ends in 24 hours

[Titus]

Well this is a crazy day.

[clementine]

Has it been already stated who the day 1 bounty was placed on?

[Poriomania]

I await here with bated breath.

[clementine]

Questions about the setup:

When the joker places a bounty, does that count as a visit?

[Titus]

Has it been already stated who the day 1 bounty was placed on?

I believe bounties are placed at night, and game starts at day. Therefore, no bounty is in play. Just to be certain...

Is there a current bounty?

Looking forward to this.

[NoctiZ]

I don't know why but today seems like it's gonna be a great day!
There's something in the air that makes me feel like things are gonna go my way
The birds are chirping tweedly-deet, the sun is shining bright!
There's a skip in my step, a pip in my pep [Snort] and I don't know why!

[clementine]

Does the game end instantly when one faction has won? (i.e. if the Joker is lynched D1, are the guards ineligible to lynch/kill 2 survivors for their win?)

[NoctiZ]

Umm didn't the setup state that we can't answer questions once the game started or am I mixing this up? :o

[clementine]

I believe bounties are placed at night, and game starts at day. Therefore, no bounty is in play. Just to be certain...

Is there a current bounty?

Looking forward to this.


Day 1 start {Lynch+Bounty available}
Bounty may be placed during the day on day 1 only.

Therefore there may not be a current bounty if the Joker has not picked up his role PM yet, but there will be one placed on D1.

[Titus]

I stand corrected. I would imagine the host waiting for everyone to post before revealing a bounty. Otherwise, people would assume the joker is in the group that has already posted.

[clementine]

I've read through the setup and have come up with a plan to win the game:


Clementine's Plan for Success:

Everyone must claim an alignment. Please do not lie about your alignment in order for this plan to work. Since Survivors and Guards can win together, there is no reason for any of the Survivors/Guards to lie.

Scenario 1: Joker false claims Guard
4 Survivor Claims
3 Guard Claims

D1 Joker places bounty on Survivor claimer
D1 lynch 1 guard claimer
N1 Killing PR from the guards or survivors kill a guard claimer (all others do nothing)
{I assume we have at least one killing role in the game... Why else would the Joker have an auto-vest?}
D2 lynch last guard claimer

Joker is successfully eliminated.


Scenario 2: Joker false claims Survivor
5 Survivor Claims
2 Guard Claims

D1 Joker places bounty on Guard claimer
D1 lynch 1 survivor claimer
N1 Killing PR from the guards or survivors kill a survivor claimer (all others do nothing)
{I assume we have at least one killing role in the game... Why else would the Joker have an auto-vest?}
D2 lynch 1 guard claimer {roleblocks joker kill}
N2 Killing PR from the guards or survivors kill a survivor claimer
D3 Lynch 1 survivor claimer {assuming the bounty is placed on the last guard claimer}
N3 Killing PR attack survivor claimer (all others do nothing)

Joker is successfully eliminated.

The first scenario gives us 2 mislynches, the second scenario gives us potentially 3 if we don't kill on N3 and instead lynch.

I think we should all leave a code in this chat with our faction claim and wait for the bounty to be announced. After the bounty has been set, we all must reveal the solution to our codes and reveal our faction.

Comments/Critique?

[Titus]

Guards don't win with survivors. Guards only win if they have a majority of the vote. Joker gets kills uf his bounty fails. How do you account for that?

[Titus]

Also, you are supposing the joker places a bounty on a guard. That is statisically unlikely at random and if he is not randoming, better to hit a survivor.

[Titus]

Clementine, I like the idea of a plan but let's work together to find one we can both agree on. I like the way you think, just not this plan. Any plan cannot require the joker to act in a particular way at this point, otherwise the joker would screw it up by doing the opposite.

[clementine]

Clementine, I like the idea of a plan but let's work together to find one we can both agree on. I like the way you think, just not this plan. Any plan cannot require the joker to act in a particular way at this point, otherwise the joker would screw it up by doing the opposite.

What would you propose to change it to make it better? I would like to hear more comments on my proposed plan before I comment further.

[Titus]

I think your concept is well done, but would require two survivor deaths for your plan to work. Then guards and survivors would work together.

Rather than planning out, supposing what the joker will do, let's see what the joker does. Will he go for the active people who are most likely citizens or the helpful lurkers, most likely PRs? Who the joker targets tells us a lot about who he is and what he will do. The joker's target should claim.

[NoctiZ]

Yeah we should wait until bounty is placed and then find out role and shit.

[clementine]

Yeah we should wait until bounty is placed and then find out role and shit.

Humor me and tell me what you think of the plan I proposed. Comparing people's opinions before and after the bounty is revealed should be very helpful for me in determining factions.

[Titus]

Humor me and tell me what you think of the plan I proposed. Comparing people's opinions before and after the bounty is revealed should be very helpful for me the group in determining factions.

Corrected. You are not alone.

[NoctiZ]

Humor me and tell me what you think of the plan I proposed. Comparing people's opinions before and after the bounty is revealed should be very helpful for me in determining factions.

I thought the plan was pretty good but instantly saw the lack of two situations: The case where someone gets doused and Joker claims the same alignment.

We should wait for the bounty announcement, then collect claims and reveal the bounty target's alignment last.

[Titus]

Doused? There is no arsonist? Did you mean bountied?

[NoctiZ]

Doused? There is no arsonist? Did you mean bountied?

Yes.. I am kinda distracted because I am skyping with people and getting achievements in SC2 at the same time lolol.

[creedkingsx]

Clementine, I like the idea of a plan but let's work together to find one we can both agree on. I like the way you think, just not this plan. Any plan cannot require the joker to act in a particular way at this point, otherwise the joker would screw it up by doing the opposite.

wut
Once everyone claims, her plan becomes 1 plan. If there are 5 survivors, go with that. If there are 3 guards, go with that. Ezmode.

[Titus]

wut
Once everyone claims, her plan becomes 1 plan. If there are 5 survivors, go with that. If there are 3 guards, go with that. Ezmode.

I'm seeing several steps ahead. Guards lose if they go along with this plan. Guards only win if their numbers are equal to or greater than the survivors. Therefore, guards might not even claim at all. Not ezmode man. Not ezmode at all.

[Titus]

From the setup


Joker: Eliminate the Survivors and the Guards, or have nothing able to prevent this from happening.
Survivors: Eliminate the Joker and have at least 1 remaining member alive.
Guards: Eliminate the Joker, have at least 1 remaining member alive, and hold 50% of the population.

Scenario: Joker claims Survivor

Don't lynch Joker's target, mislynch survivor target, mislynch survivor target. (Joker would be a moron to claim guard)
Joker kills both guards after he's gotten the KPN out of them.

Joker wins or is in lylo, unless a guard is a veteran. If the guard is a vet & joker dies, then two survivors left alive. Veteran Guard loses.

Solution: Guards lose... therefore they will not comply

Scenario: Joker claims Guard

Well the guards really don't want this and it's a moronic Joker play as he needs the KPN. Guards lose here too.

Joker needs the guards to increase the KPN. It also dramatically lowers his odds of survival. Joker won't claim here.


Clementine's plan is essentially have the guards sacrifice themselves so the survivors can cakewalk.

[Dagaen]

Somehow I feel Clementine will be bountied ^^

[Poriomania]

This is all very fascinating.

[clementine]

Will all the no shows and one post wonders be replaced?

[Titus]

Clementine, all questions for the host should usually be in green. However, usually day 1 no posters are not replaced especially if the host didn't announce what day the game would start on and some had a conflict.

[Damus_Graves]

Questions about the setup:
When the joker places a bounty, does that count as a visit?

Yesh :3


I believe bounties are placed at night, and game starts at day. Therefore, no bounty is in play. Just to be certain...

Is there a current bounty?

Looking forward to this.

Not yet. The Joker has the remainder of the day to play his bounty.


Does the game end instantly when one faction has won? (i.e. if the Joker is lynched D1, are the guards ineligible to lynch/kill 2 survivors for their win?)

If the Joker is lynched today the Survivors win and the Guards lose. This is done because the Survivors only want the Joker gone. :)

Will all the no shows and one post wonders be replaced?
Um They will be given a public warning then a replacement..if my replacers don't all unsign from being a replacement :(

[creedkingsx]

So I have been playing Fable III for the last 8 hours non-stop because it is free on XBL Marketplace and the entire group of people we have is going on a binge of sorts with it.... .-.
lol
So we want a mass roleclaim but not a single person has claimed? LOLOK
Must I lead the crowd of crowds?
For the sake of vagueness and necessity, I will leave it to alignment as the rest should, masks importance of each role.
Survivor

[Poriomania]

disclaimer: due to the fast-paced nature of this queue, I have the freedom to "switch" play styles until I find one that consistently wins games.

Since I know that my usual semi-aggressive, questioning playstyle (the one I use in most of my games) is difficult to work into a 24-hour day, I am adopting my sc2mafia playstyle - a mix of arrogance, abrasiveness, and (hopefully) curtness that has a knack for winning games.

I really don't care for a plan - my only objective this game is killing the Joker, and that it what shall I pursue.

any1 got a problem with that?

[Titus]

No problem Porio although your strategy might have worked better if you don't announce it to everyone. You can play however you want. I tend to fall back into the same play style over and over, but I'm working on that.

[clementine]

Clementine, all questions for the host should usually be in green. However, usually day 1 no posters are not replaced especially if the host didn't announce what day the game would start on and some had a conflict.

Sorry, I was on my phone and I had to just type in a guess at the color code since they don't work on my phone. I'm most used to typing in yellow text due to FM 18 :P


disclaimer: due to the fast-paced nature of this queue, I have the freedom to "switch" play styles until I find one that consistently wins games.

Since I know that my usual semi-aggressive, questioning playstyle (the one I use in most of my games) is difficult to work into a 24-hour day, I am adopting my sc2mafia playstyle - a mix of arrogance, abrasiveness, and (hopefully) curtness that has a knack for winning games.

I really don't care for a plan - my only objective this game is killing the Joker, and that it what shall I pursue.

any1 got a problem with that?

Are you claiming survivor? I'd like you to explicitly claim because I'm pretty sure you're the Joker based on host meta and reactions.

[Titus]

Clem the code is 00FF00 for the green we all use. ;)

I'm also suspicious of those who push hard for claims without revealing their own Clem. It's kind of obvious what you will claim, but you should for appearances sake.

[clementine]

Clem the code is 00FF00 for the green we all use. ;)

I'm also suspicious of those who push hard for claims without revealing their own Clem. It's kind of obvious what you will claim, but you should for appearances sake.

I have already breadcrumbed my claim (like I asked everyone to).
Smart cookies will already know what faction I have claimed. (I claimed my exact role, too)...

[clementine]

Clem the code is 00FF00 for the green we all use. ;)

I'm also suspicious of those who push hard for claims without revealing their own Clem. It's kind of obvious what you will claim, but you should for appearances sake.

Also, good to know. I just know that ffff00 is yellow, ff0000 I believe is red, and I assumed that 0000ff would be green. ;(

[Titus]

You should PUBLICLY, claim if you want a public claim. This whole, I soft claimed it, is great when you're pressured and you don't want the morons to shoot or lynch you. However, if you're intending to communicate with only select people it's moronic. The joker isn't going to lose the ability to read soft claims.

If you want a public claim, claim your faction publicly. Period. Good for the good good for the gander. Otherwise, be satisfied with people shooting gibberish and claiming its a soft claim of their faction/role. I've interpreted yours, I just don't like this strategy. If I didn't understand your claim, I'd be voting you right now Clem.


[her][/hr]
Ahh no problem on the color thing. It took me forever to figure out the right color.

[clementine]

You should PUBLICLY, claim if you want a public claim. This whole, I soft claimed it, is great when you're pressured and you don't want the morons to shoot or lynch you. However, if you're intending to communicate with only select people it's moronic. The joker isn't going to lose the ability to read soft claims.

If you want a public claim, claim your faction publicly. Period. Good for the good good for the gander. Otherwise, be satisfied with people shooting gibberish and claiming its a soft claim of their faction/role. I've interpreted yours, I just don't like this strategy. If I didn't understand your claim, I'd be voting you right now Clem.


[her][/hr]
Ahh no problem on the color thing. It took me forever to figure out the right color.

I claim guard.

Open question to everyone: If you had a gun, would you shoot me with it?

[creedkingsx]

Since I know that my usual semi-aggressive, questioning playstyle (the one I use in most of my games) is difficult to work into a 24-hour day, I am adopting my sc2mafia playstyle - a mix of arrogance, abrasiveness, and (hopefully) curtness that has a knack for winning games.

So every new person on this site's play? K, got it.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx (claimed)
NoctiZ
RLVG
Dagaen

Guard
clementine (claimed)
Titus

Joker
poriomania

[clementine]

My question earlier still stands, btw.

RLVG

[clementine]

I wonder where Titus disappeared to after demanding that I claim my faction...

[Dagaen]

Well, great, I didn't have to claim anything! Yes, I am Survivor.

Titus looks like Guard, with all those concerns about guard well-being but maybe that was on purpose:P

Btw, why voting d1? We will lynch Joker's bounty but only at the last possible moment, so we can gather clues. Or do we have to win this thing d1?:D

[NoctiZ]

I claim guard.

Open question to everyone: If you had a gun, would you shoot me with it?

Not at the moment

I claim Survivor.

[Dagaen]

Yeah, I probably won't shoot anybody, I always kill not the right person.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx (claimed)
NoctiZ (claimed)
Dagaen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine (claimed)
Titus

Joker
poriomania

[clementine]

Dagaen and NoctiZ will you vote to lynch RLVG? We can lynch the joker target tomorrow. It's just important for the guards to eliminate some of the survivors so that we can all win together when we lynch Poriomania.

[NoctiZ]

Dagaen and NoctiZ will you vote to lynch RLVG? We can lynch the joker target tomorrow. It's just important for the guards to eliminate some of the survivors so that we can all win together when we lynch Poriomania.

Yes I can.

I will also volunteer to die.

[Titus]

Clem, given you've claimed a role that is inconsistent with your plan, I'd be puzzled but I wouldn't shoot you.

Then again, I have my own gun. So gunning me is stupid unless you're paranoid about the escort being a moron.

I claim Vigilante.

I went out because I have a life and figured you were off. Plus, if you look at my location it is rather late here.

RLVG

[clementine]

Clem, given you've claimed a role that is inconsistent with your plan, I'd be puzzled but I wouldn't shoot you.

Then again, I have my own gun. So gunning me is stupid unless you're paranoid about the escort being a moron.

I claim Vigilante.



I went out because I have a life and figured you were off. Plus, if you look at my location it is rather late here.

RLVG

There is both a survivor and guard vigilante. Please specify which one you are,

[Titus]

Oh and my concerns about guards are just generally planning three steps ahead. I didn't want to claim a faction because I figured the guards wouldn't... but I had Clem pegged as escort... my soft reads need work.

For my own survival, I'd rather not specify my alignment. If I am a survivor, I'd rather have the joker think I have more bullets to survive a bounty. If I am a guard, I'd rather have the town think I'm a survivor to have more bullets.

However, I can kill tonight (unless rbed) to confirm I am a vigilante rather than a joker.

[clementine]

Also, my plan was pro-survivor just to draw out guard stealth claims based on who opposed it greatly. (i.e. you)
Although I don't have enough meta on you to know if you're just the kind of nice person who wants to make sure everyone wins or if you are a guard who won't let a pro-survivor plan cost you your win.
I'm personally leaning guard, plus it makes sense as host meta for Damus to make us both guards imo.

[clementine]

Oh and my concerns about guards are just generally planning three steps ahead. I didn't want to claim a faction because I figured the guards wouldn't... but I had Clem pegged as escort... my soft reads need work.

For my own survival, I'd rather not specify my alignment. If I am a survivor, I'd rather have the joker think I have more bullets to survive a bounty. If I am a guard, I'd rather have the town think I'm a survivor to have more bullets.

However, I can kill tonight (unless rbed) to confirm I am a vigilante rather than a joker.

Please claim your alignment or I am inclined to think you are the Joker. As always, town has absolutely nothing to hide. As long as we are all active and adaptive to the situation and claims that arise, there is absolutely no reason why we can't get a joint survivor/guard win.

[Dagaen]

Well, don't worry, I always try my best to get everyone to win. I can even suicide if I'm 100% sure that will make you guys win.

Anyway, I really feel we shouldn't vote anybody until we get all Guard claims or all Survivor claims. So yeah, waiting for one more. Titus specify, please.

[clementine]

Well, don't worry, I always try my best to get everyone to win. I can even suicide if I'm 100% sure that will make you guys win.

Anyway, I really feel we shouldn't vote anybody until we get all Guard claims or all Survivor claims. So yeah, waiting for one more. Titus specify, please.

I just think that if RLVG isn't even available to play the game we can just lynch him and save Damus the trouble of finding a replacement. *shrug*

[Titus]

I absolutely think my claiming is moronic, given I can prove I am town at night. If the town has a killing role the joker might want to keep alive, my not claiming a faction makes sense. However, if someone else pressures me for a claim, I will claim my faction. I have said faction claiming is moronic from the get go. I'm not about to change it because you say that it's better. I explained why it is better for me personally. It's always better to have someone who can shoot the joker and end the game alive.

Ok as I was about to hit submit, Daegan asked for my claim.

I'm a guard.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx (claimed)
NoctiZ (claimed)
Dagaen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine (claimed)
Titus (claimed)

Joker
poriomania

[Titus]

Now we lynch RLVG, I shoot a survivor claimer... then we all win once the joker is shot to hell.

[Dagaen]

Ok, killing Guard would ruin Clementine's Plan so I wanted to be wait for all claims.

-vote RLVG

[Dagaen]

Btw, I lynched so many AFK Townies on BNet... I'm really afraid Titus is a Joker.

[Titus]

Need to use the vote tags


[ vote*]Player name[/vote *]

Remove *s and spaces.

I'm out as it's waaay too early in the morning here. Please make sure RLVG is lynched.



I'm not a joker Dagaen. I'll shoot tonight. If the escort doesn't block me that is.

[Dagaen]

Oops, sorry, I'm quite new to this.

Well, maybe this is fate? I'll wait a bit longer with my vote, maybe RLVG will have some awesome defence. Don't worry, I will vote before the day ends:P

[clementine]

Proposed actions:

Today: Lynch RLVG
3 survivors
2 guards
1 joker

If Titus and clem are un-cc'ed guards:
Titus - shoot poriomania to confirm he is the joker (the joker has a one-shot bulletproof vest and will live or flip survivor)
clementine - alert
dagaen (if you are not escort) - visit clementine

2 survivors
2 guards
1 joker

If poriomania survives Titus's shot, then lynch poriomania and everyone (except poriomania wins)


If poriomania, Titus, and clem claim guard:
Titus - shoot NoctiZ
clementine - alert
dagaen (if you are not escort) - visit clementine
poriomania - shoot creedkingsx OR hand a gun to creedkingsx OR alert and have creedkingsx visit you
creedkingsx - visit poriomania

1 survivor
2 guards
1 joker

Lynch the joker and everyone except joker wins.


If titus and clem claim guard but RLVG flips guard:
Titus - shoot NoctiZ to prove you are a guard
clementine - alert to prove you are a guard
dagaen (if you are not an escort) - visit clementine

3 survivors
1 guard
1 joker

IMO unlikely, but I would suggest if RLVG flips guard, everyone except Noctiz visits clementine, I'll alert, and y'all can die making it: 1 survivor, 1 guard, 1 joker -> lynch joker everyone wins except joker.

In order to plan for every possible outcome, can you guys claim escort or not escort just so we can coordinate who is supposed to visit me? Yes, I am a veteran.

[clementine]

Kinda lazy to diagram out all the actions for each scenario, but I think this should suffice.

[clementine]

Also, can all the survivors claim citizen or not citizen AND escort or not escort?

This is actually pretty important for the night action coordination.

[Titus]

I am not shooting the joker target. Doing so is stupid for the guards. I'm shooting a survivor claimer. Make your plans accordingly. Really off now.

[NoctiZ]

Not escort.

Citizen.

[clementine]

I am not shooting the joker target. Doing so is stupid for the guards. I'm shooting a survivor claimer. Make your plans accordingly. Really off now.

Well make sure you don't shoot NoctiZ since he has an auto-vest.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx (claimed)
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
poriomania

[Dagaen]

I just need time to read this:P Clementine if that's you being lazy I don't wanna see you working:P

[clementine]

Can citizens visit?
If someone is attacked by multiple sources, will both be specified in the graveyard?

[clementine]

I am not shooting the joker target. Doing so is stupid for the guards. I'm shooting a survivor claimer. Make your plans accordingly. Really off now.

Also Titus, it's really important for us to definitively find the Joker so that we don't mislynch the joker and end the game early before we're at a 50% split with the survivors. Do the math yourself, it makes sense for you to shoot the suspected joker since I can only kill people who target me (i.e. cooperative survivors who don't mind dying for a confirmed joint win)

[creedkingsx]

Not Escort.
Not Citizen.

[clementine]

Not Escort.
Not Citizen.

creed, what do you think of the plan?
And are you open to the idea of a joint win with the guards?

[Dagaen]

Well, I am also Citizen.

So what now if RLVG turn out to be guard? I assume Citizens can't visit people and we don't want our only investigative role veteranized.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx - NOT citizen, NOT escort (claimed)
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen - citizen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
poriomania

[Dagaen]

Also if porio is another Citizen you Guard can be screwed, so you will probably want to kill Creed to be sure:/

[creedkingsx]

Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx - NOT citizen, NOT escort (claimed)
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen - citizen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
poriomania

I almost feel like you are copy pasting the same thing and adding to it. :o

The plan is unnecessary for my faction, but relevant to necessary alliance in the unlikely chance porio is found not to be the Joker.

[clementine]

Magical list of Trust:

Titus : reads as guard; claimed guard vigilante
-Seems very preoccupied with the guards getting screwed with the first plan I proposed. The posts are really genuine and I am 99% sure that Titus is who she says she is.


Guards don't win with survivors. Guards only win if they have a majority of the vote. Joker gets kills uf his bounty fails. How do you account for that?


Clementine, I like the idea of a plan but let's work together to find one we can both agree on. I like the way you think, just not this plan. Any plan cannot require the joker to act in a particular way at this point, otherwise the joker would screw it up by doing the opposite.


I'm seeing several steps ahead. Guards lose if they go along with this plan. Guards only win if their numbers are equal to or greater than the survivors. Therefore, guards might not even claim at all. Not ezmode man. Not ezmode at all.


From the setup



Scenario: Joker claims Survivor

Don't lynch Joker's target, mislynch survivor target, mislynch survivor target. (Joker would be a moron to claim guard)
Joker kills both guards after he's gotten the KPN out of them.

Joker wins or is in lylo, unless a guard is a veteran. If the guard is a vet & joker dies, then two survivors left alive. Veteran Guard loses.

Solution: Guards lose... therefore they will not comply

Scenario: Joker claims Guard

Well the guards really don't want this and it's a moronic Joker play as he needs the KPN. Guards lose here too.

Joker needs the guards to increase the KPN. It also dramatically lowers his odds of survival. Joker won't claim here.


Clementine's plan is essentially have the guards sacrifice themselves so the survivors can cakewalk.



Noctiz: reads as survivor; claims surivor citizen
I believe Nocitiz is a survivor about as much as I believe Titus (90% sure). Noctiz proposes some pro-town ideas like revealing the bounty target's alignment last [whoops we didnt do this] and he also volunteers to die. If there is one citizen claimer I believe the most, it is Noctiz.


I thought the plan was pretty good but instantly saw the lack of two situations: The case where someone gets doused and Joker claims the same alignment.

We should wait for the bounty announcement, then collect claims and reveal the bounty target's alignment last.


Yes I can.

I will also volunteer to die.



creedkingsx: reads as survivor; claims non escort, non citizen survivor
-likes pro-survivor plan, generally is really consistent with his survivor POV and also brings up new points like cooperation with guards is not just a positive for the guards since it helps find lying survivor claims. I believe his claim of survivor to about 85%


wut
Once everyone claims, her plan becomes 1 plan. If there are 5 survivors, go with that. If there are 3 guards, go with that. Ezmode.



Dagaen: reads as survivor or joker; claims citizen
-Dagaen is a bit odd to me. I don't have enough experience with him to know if he is talking a ton about the joker and bounties because that is his role or if it's because he's not the joker and is comfortable enough to joke about it. Furthermore, Dagaen displays some instances of townie paranoia which leads me to think he is, in fact, town.
-preoccupation with joker is a bit strange. I'd say 55% sure he is town.


Somehow I feel Clementine will be bountied ^^


Well, great, I didn't have to claim anything! Yes, I am Survivor.

Titus looks like Guard, with all those concerns about guard well-being but maybe that was on purpose:P

Btw, why voting d1? We will lynch Joker's bounty but only at the last possible moment, so we can gather clues. Or do we have to win this thing d1?:D


Btw, I lynched so many AFK Townies on BNet... I'm really afraid Titus is a Joker.



Poriomania: reads as joker; claimed survivor
-Poriomania is content just to troll in this game and drift under the radar. I think that a town poriomania would try to organize with us better.
-He doesn't care for a plan that would organize the town and ensure a "joker does not win" scenario. My first plan screwed over the guards, yet porio was against it even though he claimed survivor which would directly benefit from the first plan.
-Secondly, he doesn't realize (as creed pointed out) that cooperation with the guards seems a bit necessary for creed the survivor in case of sorting through the survivor CC's since the guards likely have all the killing roles. Poriomania's whole mindset does not seem like that of a survivor although he has claimed it. I give poriomania a 15% chance of being town.


This is all very fascinating.


disclaimer: due to the fast-paced nature of this queue, I have the freedom to "switch" play styles until I find one that consistently wins games.

Since I know that my usual semi-aggressive, questioning playstyle (the one I use in most of my games) is difficult to work into a 24-hour day, I am adopting my sc2mafia playstyle - a mix of arrogance, abrasiveness, and (hopefully) curtness that has a knack for winning games.

I really don't care for a plan - my only objective this game is killing the Joker, and that it what shall I pursue.

any1 got a problem with that?



RLVG: hasn't posted; we should lynch him :p

[clementine]

I almost feel like you are copy pasting the same thing and adding to it. :o

The plan is unnecessary for my faction, but relevant to necessary alliance in the unlikely chance porio is found not to be the Joker.

lol I am just copy-pasting it with updates if that wasn't clear. Also I forgot to add that porio soft claimed survivor. Basically, we should still lynch RLVG since everyone else has claimed.

[NoctiZ]

Solid reads, thank you clem.

[Dagaen]

I am very happy with my 55% Town. Seems like golden balance. I still don't mind dying.

I just feel bad with following one person like a sheep so I'm brainstorming and asking questions. The thing is Joker probably knows about our plans and can act accordingly.

Scenario: Joker claimed Guard. RLVG may be Guard and Poriomania may be Citizen, so remaining guard's best move is to shoot Creed, the only confirmed non-Citizen role. We now have 3 Survivors, 1 guard and 1 Joker claiming Guard, so obviously all of Survivors stop coopearating and just lynch Guards.

Sure this can be Joker move to destroy co-op, but I really just want bulletproof plan for everybody to win. Waiting with lynches till next day seems quite safe I believe?

[creedkingsx]

Unless RLVG flips guard, Joker claimed Survivor. Further, you feel if there are 3 cit claimers, it is best to shoot the one person that didn't claim the obvious scum role-claim? Are you daft? LOL

Whelp, let's move this along, then, shall we?
RLVG

[NoctiZ]

I don't think we even have to shoot creed if he is the only non-citizen survivor role. Unlikely, but hypothetically speaking: Best scenario would be if he was something that could prove his role, but if all other Survivors claim Citizen then we shouldn't shoot creed but rather use two bullets on one of the Citizens.

[creedkingsx]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Dagaen]

Well, Citizen probably can't visit Vet, so Vigilante can't kill us right now. If RLVG will be Joker Guards can lose:P

Oh wel, they wanted it. Hopefully this time I'' make this right.

RLVG

[RLVG]

I just woke up guys, been streaming on twitch from 4 on the day to 2 in the night lol. Evidence is the stream date of the video if you figure what my name is.

Ontopic : Lol, I'm voted?

I claim Citizen, Survivor. With a bad critiq on the card saying I'm not important. :suspicious:
I guess it's true if everyone randomly votes on me like this lol.

[RLVG]

I'm not even important to be on the signups list and yet I get a rolecard. Wat. :|

[RLVG]

Titus Colored Vote 1?
Clem 1
Creed 1
Daga 1

Am I hammered already, or does Titus' vote not count for not using [Vote]?

[Dagaen]

Well I believe him.

RLVG

[Dagaen]

Sooo get Porio now or what?

[NoctiZ]

Dunno, you seem quite scummy if you ask me.

[RLVG]

Dunno, you seem quite scummy if you ask me.

Let's vote 3X on Porio, if he doesn't answer we will hammer him at the end of day.
If he flips Survivor or guard, one of the respective factions has a liar in them.

[Dagaen]

Porio mentioned something about being Survivor, so Joker is probably Survivor. Still I want Porio to tell us if he is non-Citizen.

Poriomania

[RLVG]

Porio mentioned something about being Survivor


Faction assignments:
imo this is how it looks. I'd like to lynch the guy who didn't show up yet today since he is (probably) a survivor and if one of the other survivors wants to be a pal and volunteer to die so that the next day we can lynch porio and the game ends with all of us except the joker winning.

Survivor
creedkingsx (claimed)
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen (claimed)
RLVG

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
poriomania

Are you sure? If that's the case, Clem is suspicious for holding information or not having seen this.
(Add this with that there being too many survivors is suspicious)

[Dagaen]

disclaimer: due to the fast-paced nature of this queue, I have the freedom to "switch" play styles until I find one that consistently wins games.

Since I know that my usual semi-aggressive, questioning playstyle (the one I use in most of my games) is difficult to work into a 24-hour day, I am adopting my sc2mafia playstyle - a mix of arrogance, abrasiveness, and (hopefully) curtness that has a knack for winning games.

I really don't care for a plan - my only objective this game is killing the Joker, and that it what shall I pursue.

any1 got a problem with that?

It isn't clear claim. Clementine mentioned it later, so don't worry, he doesn't withhold anything. But Porio's claim looks quite suspicious to me - I mean every Joker will try to act as much non-Jokerish as possible, so stating "I wanna kill Joker" looks quite strange.


Dunno, you seem quite scummy if you ask me.

Why NoctiZ? Don't you believe that non-Joker person can be afk?

[NoctiZ]

Why NoctiZ? Don't you believe that non-Joker person can be afk?

Can you rephrase this? I can't quite get behind the "double negative" you used, it's hard for me to answer this like that.

[creedkingsx]

Do you guys recognize what the idea of this all was?

[NoctiZ]

Do you guys recognize what the idea of this all was?

I don't get this question either. Of what all, the whole FM or the whole accusing or the whole picking correct targets or the whole plan which was from clementine?

[Dagaen]

Well feel free to vote RLVG if you want. I'm still thinking that doing it d2 would be better, but we don't need every vote here.

Joker will probaby claim Citizen (shared vests and no need to prove yourself by doing night action), so I really would like to wait for Poriomania to claim.
Vigilante can shoot one of "Citizens" to neutralize his vest.

NoctiZ, I'm just curious why don't you believe RLVG. Sometimes people are really afk.

[NoctiZ]

Well feel free to vote RLVG if you want. I'm still thinking that doing it d2 would be better, but we don't need every vote here.

Joker will probaby claim Citizen (shared vests and no need to prove yourself by doing night action), so I really would like to wait for Poriomania to claim.
Vigilante can shoot one of "Citizens" to neutralize his vest.

NoctiZ, I'm just curious why don't you believe RLVG. Sometimes people are really afk.

Oh, I was referring to you, not RLVG.

[RLVG]

June 15th, 2013, 03:23 PM (Post 1)
June 16th, 2013, 04:19 PM (Post 103)

"Day One Ends in 24 hours"

:|

[Damus_Graves]

Game has been closed. A Bounty has been placed on Titus. Submit night actions plox.

RLVG has been lynched with a majority vote. He was a Citizen Survivor.

[Damus_Graves]

The Second day has been opened No one has died

[Titus]

If I die tonight, does the joker still get two kills? We were told day 1 that a bounty was on me. So that should give us until Day 3 correct?

[Damus_Graves]

If I die tonight, does the joker still get two kills? We were told day 1 that a bounty was on me. So that should give us until Day 3 correct?

Day Three is the last day to lynch the bountied person as the bounty was placed at the end of day one

[NoctiZ]

Okay, that's good, this gives us more time. Who we lynch, did you shoot anyone Titus?

[Titus]

Yes. I did shoot. We lynch Creed as he didn't die when I shot him. If Creed flips survivor, then poriomania is a doctor. I would rather keep Porio alive to reduce the KPN the joker has on Night 3.

[Titus]

By the way, if we lynch creed and he is a survivor, I will shoot the citizen claimer I think is the joker. I always suspected three cits was too many.

[Titus]

creedkingsx

Pressure on Daegan.

Actually, I am not shooting tonight. Doc on me n4. Then the joker cannot kill all the survivors. He cannot get an upper hand on the guards either.

[NoctiZ]

creedkingsx

Interesting revelation.

[Titus]

NoctiZ, can you please post your suspicion list?

[NoctiZ]

Dagaen:

There are parts where I think he is kind of desperate trying to gain some trust:


I am very happy with my 55% Town. Seems like golden balance. I still don't mind dying.

I just feel bad with following one person like a sheep so I'm brainstorming and asking questions. The thing is Joker probably knows about our plans and can act accordingly.

This post feels both scummy and towny, just suspicious.


Joker will probaby claim Citizen (shared vests and no need to prove yourself by doing night action), so I really would like to wait for Poriomania to claim.
Vigilante can shoot one of "Citizens" to neutralize his vest.


This post feels like he told us something from inside of his Joker mind.
Especially the "Vigilante can shoot one of "Citizens" to neutralize his vest." part, because the way he worded it makes me think that he thought that there couldn't be a follow up on the shot on someone, meaning that he thought that you would need to be lynched today Titus if we wanted to prevent kills from the Joker.


Leaving creed out because most scummiest at the moment. If he flips some role without vest then it's easy to lynch Dagaen as Porio has to be the Doctor then.

[NoctiZ]

And the only other suspect would be Poriomania, but we will have enough information after we possibly lynch creed today.

[Titus]

Why do you think creed is the scummiest NoctiZ?

[NoctiZ]

Why do you think creed is the scummiest NoctiZ?

Because of your claim to have shot creed. He could either have false claimed or got healed by Porio and until Porio comes and actually claims something I think we should go for creed because we will automatically know if Porio is doctor or not, reducing the number of possible Jokers to 2, me or Dagaen. And if Porio isn't doctor then creed is scum and game ends. Not that hard.

[Dagaen]

I wrote "Citizens" because I was sure that Joker would claim one. Joker and Citizen have a lot of things in common.

I also assumed that shooting Citizens would be better, because Guards would like to kill non-important Survivors first, and they have to waste 2 kill on each Citi. Well, not like it matters now, Clementine can't kill, we can't visit so the only thing that Vigilante can do is shoot Creed again. That means, that Guards should lynch one of Citizens to reach proper Survivor count (which means I will probably be lynched:P).

Well Titus is confirmed Guard (he was bountied) and that makes Creed very suspicious. But isn't it better to just lynch Survivor and shoot possible Joker at night? I'm assuming Guards want to win. I'm ready to die if you want, because I am apparently the most scummy Citizen here:)

[Dagaen]

Anyway we have to wait for Poriomania to claim so we can all win.

[NoctiZ]

I'm going to say that I find your post to be suspicious again regarding certain matters but I will disregard it for now and hope that Porio and creed come on some time during the day.

[clementine]

This is the way I see it:

creedkingsx already claimed not citizen and not escort. There is no way he could have survived the kill unless poriomania is doctor or escort.

Here's the thing though. After reviewing the gamethread, I'm concerned about Dagaen:


[QUOTE=Dagaen;336426]Well, don't worry, I always try my best to get everyone to win. I can even suicide if I'm 100% sure that will make you guys win.

Anyway, I really feel we shouldn't vote anybody until we get all Guard claims or all Survivor claims. So yeah, waiting for one more. Titus specify, please.

Followed by a quick flip flop:


Ok, killing Guard would ruin Clementine's Plan so I wanted to be wait for all claims.

-vote RLVG

He first says he wants to gather all the claims and then votes RLVG without waiting to collect all of them? This seems a bit opportunistic to me. However something that gives him town points is that he seems to hold onto his vote a bit more than I would expect the Joker to (since the joker should want to cause mislynches).

I think we need Poriomania to come weigh in on all this. I need to review stuff and have a chance to actually read Poriomania properly. There is a chance, I guess that porio is a guard who fake claimed survivor since why is Titus unable to kill creed?

Porio needs to come and weigh in. This situation has created a couple 1v1s that can only be resolved by Poriomania.

@Poriomania can you confirm if you are:
1. Do you still wish to claim survivor?
2. Are you citizen or not citizen?
3. Are you escort or not escort?
4. Did you perform an action that would protect creed from death?

[Dagaen]

Well I'm sorry, this is my first FM game after all, I'm kinda excited. Anyway, I'll repeat - I am willing to be lynched. It's not some kind of reversed logic (it wouldn't work in my situation anyway), but if you need Survivor to kill I guess I'm your guy. If you will be sure that Creed is Joker, you should probably lynch me and kill Creed at night.

I just wanted to say that I also unvoted RVLG because I was quite sure he is Citizen. Another argument for giving me +5% Town^^

Ok, enough for now. Waiting for Creed's and Poriomania's role claim and clues.

[clementine]

I'm going to say that I find your post to be suspicious again regarding certain matters but I will disregard it for now and hope that Porio and creed come on some time during the day.

Do you suspect Dagaen?

It's really hard for me to read him without some kind of baseline, but surprisingly, I'm actually feeling like he might be the Joker over poriomania/creed. I think what we should do is:

Today: Lynch Poriomania

This confirms whether or not Creed should have survived. If poriomania is the joker, then creed should be dead since Titus would be legit and creed would not have an autovest. Therefore Poriomania cannot be the joker and instead is either a guard or survivor. His flip tells us if one of the guards is lying OR if he flips doctor/escort who blocked the kill.

Tonight: Titus shoots creed
Titus shooting creed will kill the joker if creed is joker -> everyone except joker wins.
If Titus is fake claiming guard, it exposes her as joker since she failed to kill creed.

Tomorrow: Lynch Dagaen
If both porio and creed are not joker, then it is probably Dagaen. We lynch him for everyone except joker wins.

[Dagaen]

I think we need Poriomania to come weigh in on all this. I need to review stuff and have a chance to actually read Poriomania properly. There is a chance, I guess that porio is a guard who fake claimed survivor since why is Titus unable to kill creed?

If Porio is a Guard that would mean that either you are Joker or Titus place a bounty on himself^^

[clementine]

Well I'm sorry, this is my first FM game after all, I'm kinda excited. Anyway, I'll repeat - I am willing to be lynched. It's not some kind of reversed logic (it wouldn't work in my situation anyway), but if you need Survivor to kill I guess I'm your guy. If you will be sure that Creed is Joker, you should probably lynch me and kill Creed at night.

I just wanted to say that I also unvoted RVLG because I was quite sure he is Citizen. Another argument for giving me +5% Town^^

Ok, enough for now. Waiting for Creed's and Poriomania's role claim and clues.

You're way too focused on the joker. You mention him in almost every post. Oftentimes, scum will talk about their role a lot just subconsciously. It's hard for me to tell if it's just you being yourself or your subconscious talking about your role since we have never played a game together.

[NoctiZ]

Do you suspect Dagaen?

It's really hard for me to read him without some kind of baseline, but surprisingly, I'm actually feeling like he might be the Joker over poriomania/creed. I think what we should do is:

Today: Lynch Poriomania

This confirms whether or not Creed should have survived. If poriomania is the joker, then creed should be dead since Titus would be legit and creed would not have an autovest. Therefore Poriomania cannot be the joker and instead is either a guard or survivor. His flip tells us if one of the guards is lying OR if he flips doctor/escort who blocked the kill.

Tonight: Titus shoots creed
Titus shooting creed will kill the joker if creed is joker -> everyone except joker wins.
If Titus is fake claiming guard, it exposes her as joker since she failed to kill creed.

Tomorrow: Lynch Dagaen
If both porio and creed are not joker, then it is probably Dagaen. We lynch him for everyone except joker wins.

I actually do think that Dagaen is the Joker over creed/Porio, but the plan you suggested seems pretty good. No objections.


If Porio is a Guard that would mean that either you are Joker or Titus place a bounty on himself^^

That may be possible because Titus suggested to heal her instead of lynching her because of the bounty so one guard is always alive. That is if Titus really is the Vigilante. We will know tomorrow if we follow clem's plan.

[clementine]

If Porio is a Guard that would mean that either you are Joker or Titus place a bounty on himself^^

It's not out of the question for a joker to place a bounty on themself if they are sure they won't be lynched.

I'm just opening the possibility for Porio to be a Guard just because to be honest I really wanted to claim survivor myself just to see if we could draw out a Joker false claiming guard. Poriomania has just contributed so little that it's hard to judge his motives and intent.

That being said, I do think that Titus has acted like a guard in response to my plan and with regard to wanting to just claim vigilante instead of claiming her faction. I just wanted to leave all the options open just so we aren't hasty with our actions.

If we consider Titus is a guard, then it really depends on what Poriomania claims to determine who the scum is.

[clementine]

What we really need though, is poriomania to come contribute. How disappointing that he has decided to lurk/afk this game. I expected better from poriomania.

[Titus]

Lynching creed confirms whether or not he survives. If creed is telling the truth, then Poriomania is the doctor. I don't buy four citizens and three accurate claims is unlikely. It would leave us without a doc and a sherrif. Lynching creed ensures we can all win.

Poriomania lynch means we might have less of a chance to limit joker kills.

[Dagaen]

I have little concerns about lynching me d3. What if I'm really Citizen? Do you have a back-plan for that?

I'll repeat - I don't mind dying, but for the sake of all of us please lynch me as Citizen, not Joker. Maybe we should wait for Poriomania/Creed and lynch me at the end of the Day?

[Titus]

Lol... clem I might be insane but not stupid. If I wanted to hide myself, I pick a citizen claimer to shoot. If I wasn't confident that Poriomania was doc, I would find you suspect.

[clementine]

Lynching creed confirms whether or not he survives. If creed is telling the truth, then Poriomania is the doctor. I don't buy four citizens and three accurate claims is unlikely. It would leave us without a doc and a sherrif. Lynching creed ensures we can all win.

Poriomania lynch means we might have less of a chance to limit joker kills.

The only problem is if creed is actually the joker. You shot him and he survived, he didn't claim citizen, and why in the world does ANYBODY heal creed when we're trying to prove Titus's role by having her shoot creed?

If we lynch creed and he's the joker then gg, Titus we just lost. We need to lynch someone today who is not the joker, but can give us information to accurately determine who is the joker.

Also, at this rate, the joker will never get to kill. I asked damus. He said that if we do not lynch Titus than the joker cannot kill tonight, but would kill the night after. Therefore we have two lynches and one nightkill to find the joker which means we don't even need a potential doc alive to limit joker kills.

[clementine]

Lol... clem I might be insane but not stupid. If I wanted to hide myself, I pick a citizen claimer to shoot. If I wasn't confident that Poriomania was doc, I would find you suspect.

Why do you think Porio is doc and creed is not joker? What makes you believe that creed is 100% safe?

[clementine]

The only scenario you are imagining is this:

Titus - vigilante, shot creed the sheriff
creed - sheriff, shot by Titus
poriomania - doctor, healed creed

Therefore I guess you think Dagaen is Joker?



But what if it's:
Titus - vigilante, shot creed the joker
creed - joker, healed by poriomania
poriomania - doctor, healed creed

[clementine]

I think it is more likely that creed is a survivor since why in the world does joker claim anything other than citizen to account for his autovest? But with poriomania being ridiculously afk, the safe route is to lynch porio, kill creed, and then lynch Dagaen in order to ensure our win.

I guess now that I think about it 2 cits, 2 prs makes sense as far as role assignment host meta goes. But I would rather not rely on that and go for the confirmed plan to catch scum and ensure we the guards get a win, too. Especially under the constraint that Poriomania is refusing to even participate in this game.

[clementine]

Alternatively, if creed and porio are both PRs that can visit... I can kill any of them at night if they visit me when I alert. Let me think about this a bit more and make a recommendation.

[Dagaen]

If we lynched Poriomania and he flips Doc, Vigilante can only shoot Creed since everyone else is protected by vests. I know I seem shady, which means I'd be lynched d3, which means Joker (yes, mentioning it again) will get 2 kills.

How about you lynch me today and Titus will shoot Poriomania? We will confirm if he is Doc, Creed will have 2 nights to gather clues\proof himself and if we don't have anything we can just lynch Titus to prevent 2 kills. Will this work?

[Dagaen]

Oh wait, that would mean the only suspect is Noctiz. Well, ok, I like this plan, but I really don't want to be lynched as Joker suspect.

[clementine]

If we lynched Poriomania and he flips Doc, Vigilante can only shoot Creed since everyone else is protected by vests. I know I seem shady, which means I'd be lynched d3, which means Joker (yes, mentioning it again) will get 2 kills.

How about you lynch me today and Titus will shoot Poriomania? We will confirm if he is Doc, Creed will have 2 nights to gather clues\proof himself and if we don't have anything we can just lynch Titus to prevent 2 kills. Will this work?

If you are really a citizen then who do you suspect as the Joker?

[clementine]

Oh wait, that would mean the only suspect is Noctiz. Well, ok, I like this plan, but I really don't want to be lynched as Joker suspect.

This is why I believe Noctiz's citizen claim over yours and starting to seriously suspect you as joker. It took you too long to FoS NoctiZ imo.

Everyone please comment since your opinion on this matter is extremely crucial in finding scum.

[Dagaen]

Yeah, nvm, I doubt that NoctiZ is bad guy, so your plan is fine by me. Poriomania is my number one to lynch for now, but mostly because he didn't say much.

[Poriomania]

Phonepost

I am a survivor citizen

Sorry for my absence, will post when I get to a computer

[Dagaen]

Ok, so lynch me or Poriomania tonight, at tonight kill Creed who has 0 vests.

[Dagaen]

Well I don't know if I can vote for myself, so...

Poriomania

You can also vote me if you want.

[Poriomania]

Yep

Don't lynch before I get back, though

Want to post full analysis of the game state before I go

[Poriomania]

What we really need though, is poriomania to come contribute. How disappointing that he has decided to lurk/afk this game. I expected better from poriomania.

Haha, yes, I am extremely sorry for not contributing enough. Last few days have been rough.

Don't worry; today, I should have some free time, so expect me to rev up

[clementine]

Yeah, nvm, I doubt that NoctiZ is bad guy, so your plan is fine by me. Poriomania is my number one to lynch for now, but mostly because he didn't say much.

This makes absolutely no sense. You posted this before poriomania claimed citizen, but think about it. If you and NoctiZ are both citizens, Titus is guard who shot creedkingsx, and creedkingsx somehow lived despite NOT being a citizen, then that creates a 1v1 between Titus and creed UNLESS porio claims doctor. Suspecting poriomania despite Titus claiming to shoot creed and he lived despite NOT being a citizen makes 100% no sense.

Looks like after porio claimed citizen you still suspect porio... There is no way creed could have survived the shot if he is a non-cit PR like he claimed earlier. This means that creed or Titus has to be scum. Which is really odd to me why you still insist that Poriomania is scum.


Phonepost

I am a survivor citizen

Sorry for my absence, will post when I get to a computer

Titus, what do you think about this? If nobody is lying about anything except for the Joker it should be obvious now why we should NOT lynch creedkingsx today. If you shot through creed's autovest then it should be a simple matter of lynching a citizen claimer and shooting creed tonight.

[NoctiZ]

Porio's claim makes it easy to do the following: lynch citizen claimer, shoot creed, if creed dies by Titus' hand then we win because Joker false claimed citizen, if creed doesn't die then get Titus. If we still haven't won then think about better lynch targets.


I seriously hope that everyone now claimed their true alignment and role (except for the Joker ofc) so there is no confusion and we can think clearly about any plans.

[Dagaen]

My lack of logic is result of me being newbie.

I don't suspect Porio, Creed is now 100% Joker. We just need to lynch some Survivor, so Guards can win. If you think I'm most scummy please vote me. I really don't want my first game to be a loss (especially if this would me my fault).

[NoctiZ]

Porio's claim makes it easy to do the following: lynch citizen claimer, shoot creed, if creed dies by Titus' hand then we win because Joker false claimed citizen, if creed doesn't die then get Titus. If we still haven't won then think about better lynch targets.


I seriously hope that everyone now claimed their true alignment and role (except for the Joker ofc) so there is no confusion and we can think clearly about any plans.

Oh but if Titus doesn't shoot creed/creed doesn't die then that also means someone false claimed, hence everyone should have claimed their true alignment and role by now.

[clementine]

My lack of logic is result of me being newbie.

I don't suspect Porio, Creed is now 100% Joker. We just need to lynch some Survivor, so Guards can win. If you think I'm most scummy please vote me. I really don't want my first game to be a loss (especially if this would me my fault).

This is actually the worst defense you can make: claiming newness as a cover for your scumminess. I'll let it slide for now though since creed is 1v1 with Titus based on night actions.


Porio's claim makes it easy to do the following: lynch citizen claimer, shoot creed, if creed dies by Titus' hand then we win because Joker false claimed citizen, if creed doesn't die then get Titus. If we still haven't won then think about better lynch targets.


I seriously hope that everyone now claimed their true alignment and role (except for the Joker ofc) so there is no confusion and we can think clearly about any plans.

I agree. Although based on setup meta it makes sense in my mind that all the survivors are citizens who cannot visit and have auto vests because then Damus lols and makes the guards a vigilante and a veteran who can't even kill the citizens in one night.

Plus, titus/clem as guards + creed as joker... I can kinda see that being a thing if players were selected maybe roles were as well?

[creedkingsx]

dafuq happened LOL

who the fuck didn't claim their role? At least as far as not cit/escort?
Fuck a duck and shit on it sideways.

[clementine]

Faction assignments:
Updated.

Survivor
NoctiZ - citizen (claimed)
Dagaen - citizen (claimed)
poriomania - citizen (claimed)
RLVG (confirmed)

Guard
clementine - veteran (claimed)
Titus - vigilante (claimed)

Joker
creedkingsx (claimed survivor not cit not escort) - http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/20914-S-FM-88-Containment?p=336460&viewfull=1#post336460

Creed claim exact role now please.

[creedkingsx]

I would say inb4 titus is joker but only 2 people claimed guard.

[creedkingsx]

Detective.
NoctiZ went nowhere last night

[clementine]

@ creed, assuming Titus and I are both guards (since un-cc'ed) and assuming you are also telling the truth, someone must be false claiming citizen as doctor and the joker is false claiming citizen as joker. Out of the three citizen claimers, who would you assume is joker, who would you assume is doctor, who would you assume is citizen and why?

[creedkingsx]

Daegan as Joker, porio as doc

[clementine]

Detective.
NoctiZ went nowhere last night

What is your reasoning for following NoctiZ? This is just a bit strange to me since the Joker doesn't visit anyone and I thought NoctiZ had the highest chance of actually being cit, why did you not choose to follow Titus to confirm as vigilante?

[Titus]

unvote

I am highly suspicious of creed now, but it's possible we have a pair of lying cit claimers... one as doctor and the other as joker.

I still think the best plan is to no vote the next two days while scumhunting. I'm not fully committed to that as my vote is not on skip though.

[Titus]

Daegan as Joker, porio as doc

To put my two cents in... NoctiZ as Joker and Porio as doc. It's easy to volunteer to be shot as joker. Not so much volunteer to be lynched.

[NoctiZ]

To put my two cents in... NoctiZ as Joker and Porio as doc. It's easy to volunteer to be shot as joker. Not so much volunteer to be lynched.

I didn't volunteer to be shot, I volunteered to die. ;)

[FM Ferengi]

unvote

I am highly suspicious of creed now, but it's possible we have a pair of lying cit claimers... one as doctor and the other as joker.

I still think the best plan is to no vote the next two days while scumhunting. I'm not fully committed to that as my vote is not on skip though.

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?

[NoctiZ]

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?
This is spot on. Nothing to add to that.

[clementine]

Do you think it is more likely creed is town and that there are two lying cit claimers or that there is just one liar here (creedkingsx). I still think today we lynch poriomania, tonight you shoot creed, creed visits me, I alert, and the next day we lynch Dagaen/Noctiz if the game has not yet concluded.

I'm still waiting to hear why creed tracked Noctiz instead of you last night. Don't you think it is a bit condemning that creed chooses to track a citizen claimer instead of tracking you to prove both of you as townies?

Derp wrong account. I don't want to delete it for fear of modkill/warning.

Just so everyone is aware I accidentally posted with the wrong account.

[clementine]

This is spot on. Nothing to add to that.

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

[NoctiZ]

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

Well, it seems like I'm focusing on Dagaen I guess but I would tag Dagaen as Joker and Poriomania as doctor. Me being the citizen of course.

Dagaen has made some slips I have pointed out, whereas Poriomania has announced a switch of playstyle and it wouldn't surprise me if he lied about his role. Other than that he has posted a bit too little to judge more than that.

[Titus]

How about we no vote and I shoot Poriomania... then we have no shot of losing the game. If Porio is citizen, then he should vest. Doctor stays home. Creed visits Daegan just to confirm he's not the doctor.

[clementine]

If creedkingsx is detective and there are two lying cit claimers: one is cit, one is doctor, and one is joker out of you, poriomania, and Dagaen, who do you think is which and why?

Same question but addressed to Dagaen and poriomania, please.

[clementine]

How about we no vote and I shoot Poriomania... then we have no shot of losing the game. If Porio is citizen, then he should vest. Doctor stays home. Creed visits Daegan just to confirm he's not the doctor.


Titus the problem with your plan is this:

Titus shoots poriomania
poriomania is cit and autovests
creed visits dagaean to confirm not doc

Lynch Creed (joker)

End scenario is 3 survivors, 2 guards meaning that the guards (us) don't get the win.

[Dagaen]

But why would Doc false-claim Citizen? If we have Doc it is Porio who was too busy to read everything and maybe he doesn't know about our plan. If I was Doc I'd claim it, NoctiZ probably would do the same. We should wait for Porio.

For now I think Creed is a Joker, rest of us are Citizens. As I said: no reason to lie about being Doctor for me or NoctiZ.

[Dagaen]

Oh sorry, misread your question, assuming Creed is Detective that leaves NoctiZ as Joker.

[Titus]

We no vote twice. We still have the majority. The survivors can vote whoever, we no vote. If I'm wrong, porio is not the doctor... then

3 v 2 v 1

No vote again...

Joker (creed) cannot shoot all of the citizens.
He shoots me and one of the citizens

3 v 1 (problem) Joker will get lynched.... so Joker must keep me alive

Joker shoots two citizens

3 v 2 v 1 (both citizens autovest)

We have all damn day for me to shoot a citizen.




PRs claiming citizen is quite common Daegan. Evil roles don't want to kill the citizens first. They want to kill the PR roles.

[Dagaen]

It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.

[Titus]

It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.

That's why it's logical if there's a doctor at all, It's Poriomania and that you/NoctiZ is the Joker.

[Dagaen]

That's what I think too. Of course for now Creed is no. 1 Joker.

Oh well, going to sleep now, see you all in ~8 hours!

[clementine]

We no vote twice. We still have the majority. The survivors can vote whoever, we no vote. If I'm wrong, porio is not the doctor... then

3 v 2 v 1

No vote again...

Joker (creed) cannot shoot all of the citizens.
He shoots me and one of the citizens

3 v 1 (problem) Joker will get lynched.... so Joker must keep me alive

Joker shoots two citizens

3 v 2 v 1 (both citizens autovest)

We have all damn day for me to shoot a citizen.




PRs claiming citizen is quite common Daegan. Evil roles don't want to kill the citizens first. They want to kill the PR roles.

Explain to me again why the Joker must keep you alive? I'm not quite following your logic. Can you explain it like I'm 5?

[Titus]

Absolutely.

We no vote until Joker kills. I don't kill anyone.

That leaves 3 v 2 v 1.

Creed as joker Joker kills me and shoots one citizen
I die. The citizen autovests and therefore lives.

That leaves 3 survivors, 1 guard (Clementine) and the joker (creed).

The three survivors then vote to lynch creed.

Creed is dead and loses. The best he can hope for is Poriomania vegging and failing to lynch creed.

Creed is joker; shoots two citizens

Everyone is still alive because both citizens autovest.

We are in the same situation, but I can kill any citizen I want. I just have to be sure NOT to kill the joker. Then, we can lynch at will.

Someone else as joker

Doctor heals me. Joker cannot get kill all three survivors with two shots. It's impossible.

[Titus]

In our current scenario, the joker won't vote to lynch himself and the survivors don't have majority. So we can refuse to lynch until a citizen dies.

[clementine]

Absolutely.

We no vote until Joker kills. I don't kill anyone.

That leaves 3 v 2 v 1.

Creed as joker Joker kills me and shoots one citizen
I die. The citizen autovests and therefore lives.

That leaves 3 survivors, 1 guard (Clementine) and the joker (creed).

The three survivors then vote to lynch creed.

Creed is dead and loses. The best he can hope for is Poriomania vegging and failing to lynch creed.

Titus, if the three survivors vote to lynch creed then the game ends and only the survivors win since the guards don't have a controlling majority. I don't know if you missed this fact or if I'm missing something.


Creed is joker; shoots two citizens

Everyone is still alive because both citizens autovest.

We are in the same situation, but I can kill any citizen I want. I just have to be sure NOT to kill the joker. Then, we can lynch at will.

In this situation, you can't kill any citizen because the joker can only shoot two of the three citizens. Additionally, I feel like the joker would just kill both of us to ensure we don't win. (If he attacks you and me and I alert then I kill him and the game ends with us not winning). (If he attacks you and me and I don't alert then both guards are dead and we both end up not winning). How do you account for this scenario?


Someone else as joker

Doctor heals me. Joker cannot get kill all three survivors with two shots. It's impossible.



I don't see why your plan is any better than mine especially since it seems like we end up losing most of the time and it ends in a solo survivor win.

Titus, I think you are forgetting that the game ends when one faction meets its win condition. I already asked and Damus answered earlier in this thread. So some of your scenarios will end in a solo survivor win because we didn't eliminate enough survivors. This is why we have to lynch a survivor today.

I want to lynch Poriomania because he is afk and it will help "prove" that there is no doc so you should really just shoot creed at night and we can end it with a joint guard/survivor win.

[Titus]

The three survivors CANNOT vote to lynch creed. They need a fourth vote. 3 survivors =/= majority. There's a slim chance that Poriomania is indeed the joker. I'm not wanting to take chances right now.

The joker shooting me and leaving the survivors alive is moronic. The joker is playing to win as well. Yes, he could kill me and then shoot a citizen. That doesn't make sense though.

If Poriomania gets to L-1, I will hammer. If everyone seems to be in agreement, I am on board... but I don't think lynching is a smart play here. I'd rather shoot.

[clementine]

The three survivors CANNOT vote to lynch creed. They need a fourth vote. 3 survivors =/= majority. There's a slim chance that Poriomania is indeed the joker. I'm not wanting to take chances right now.

I was referencing the situation you said where the joker kills you and so it's 3 survivors v. 1 guard (clementine) v 1 joker. Basically the survivors would control the lynch at that point.

Poriomania cannot be joker. If she was joker then creed is confirmed detective meaning Noctiz did not visit anyone (did not heal creed) therefore Dagaen has to be the doctor. Do you think Dagaean, a confirmed new player who keeps asking and begging us to lynch him is actually a doctor even after he repeatedly confirms that he is only a citizen?

Or do you think that Dagaen is probably a citizen like he says he is. Poriomania is the safest lynch simply because she cannot be the joker.


The joker shooting me and leaving the survivors alive is moronic. The joker is playing to win as well. Yes, he could kill me and then shoot a citizen. That doesn't make sense though.

If the joker feels guaranteed to a 100% loss either way, I can see him taking out the guards just to ensure we don't win. I think if we no lynch 2 days in a row, he'll attack both guards so that we both lose with 100% certainty.


If Poriomania gets to L-1, I will hammer. If everyone seems to be in agreement, I am on board... but I don't think lynching is a smart play here. I'd rather shoot.

Titus, I am trying to understand why you don't want to lynch. It's much easier to eliminate out citizen claimers via lynch simply because they do not have autovests that prevent you from shooting them at night.

There are too many flaws with your plan of shooting people because it relies on the joker doing what we want him to do: attacking two different citizens, and not suiciding into the guards to force us to lose.

[Titus]

Your plan of lynching has just as many flaws. What if we lynch the wrong target? We autolose and bring it on ourselves. Before I can lynch any survivor, I'd need to be one hundred percent sure they are innocent. I cannot under any scenario see that. Perhaps we lynch tomorrow but today, I'm not bringing about our own loss.

[clementine]

Vote count right now should be at:
creedkingsx (1): Noctiz
poriomania (1): Dagaen



poriomania

I'm not gonna hold my breath and wait for this guy to post.
clementine - Posts: 57
Titus - Posts: 37
Dagaen - Posts: 32
NoctiZ - Posts: 26
creedkingsx - Posts: 12
RLVG - Posts: 6
Poriomania - Posts: 6
Damus Graves - Posts: 5
Switzerland - Posts: 1

It deeply concerns me that Poriomania only has 6 posts, the same as a guy who was only alive in this game for 1 day. We can't scumhunt off his posts, so we should just lynch him since we need to get rid of a survivor claimer today anyway and he claims citizen that can't die to being shot at night without having to shoot through his autovest.

[clementine]

Your plan of lynching has just as many flaws. What if we lynch the wrong target? We autolose and bring it on ourselves. Before I can lynch any survivor, I'd need to be one hundred percent sure they are innocent. I cannot under any scenario see that. Perhaps we lynch tomorrow but today, I'm not bringing about our own loss.

Describe to me how it is possible for poriomania to be the jester.

[Titus]

Poriomania is joker and the doctor is NoctiZ/Daegan and is afraid I'll shoot their brains out if they claim.

[clementine]

Reasons why Poriomania CANNOT be the joker:

1. If poriomania is the joker, then creedkingsx and Titus are innocent.
2. If creedkingsx is innocent, then his claim of detective who targeted Noctiz who visited nobody is correct.
3. If Titus is innocent then her claim of vigilante who targeted creedkingsx is correct.
4. If Noctiz visited nobody, then Dagaen must be the doctor who healed creedkingsx from Titus's shot.

Therefore if I can prove that Dagaen is not the doctor then our assumption that poriomania is the joker must be incorrect.

Posts of Dagaen denying being the doctor. Do these posts sound like a doctor who is trying to hide as a citizen to you?


But why would Doc false-claim Citizen? If we have Doc it is Porio who was too busy to read everything and maybe he doesn't know about our plan. If I was Doc I'd claim it, NoctiZ probably would do the same. We should wait for Porio.

For now I think Creed is a Joker, rest of us are Citizens. As I said: no reason to lie about being Doctor for me or NoctiZ.


It's Dagaen, not Daegan^^

I know it's common, but bounty has been placed and we have quite some time now. Joker can't really kill as he pleases, so coming clean with Doctor is quite safe. Especially if it helps us win after next night.


That's what I think too. Of course for now Creed is no. 1 Joker.

Oh well, going to sleep now, see you all in ~8 hours!

[Titus]

Poriomania

Ok you have convinced me enough. I still think D is smarter than you give him credit for. However, those posts together make it less likely he's pulling a gambit in his first game.

[NoctiZ]

I also agree on voting on Porio, but I will refrain from voting until shortly before the day ends.

[clementine]

Poriomania

Ok you have convinced me enough. I still think D is smarter than you give him credit for. However, those posts together make it less likely he's pulling a gambit in his first game.

If you are worried about Dagaen being a hidden doctor, then here is what we can do:

Lynch Poriomania (check if porio flips doc)
Titus shoots Dagaen (will die and flip doc if he is fake claiming as citizen)
Lynch creedkingsx (if neither Dagaen nor poriomania flips doc since creed already proved NoctiZ cannot be doc due to detective results)

How is that Titus?

[Titus]

Sounds good to me.

[Poriomania]

It seems as if this is a bad time to waltz on in here.

So, is the game mostly solved?

Any questions you want me to answer before I bite the dust?

[Titus]

I take you do not claim doctor then Poriomania?

[Poriomania]

I am a citizen survivor.

I don't recall being a doctor.

[Poriomania]

Also, terribly sorry for my bad performance this game. A couple of bad days + work really put me through the grinder.

[Titus]

Ok I am out until the end of the night. Please lynch Poriomania if that's what we are going to do.

[Poriomania]

I would hammer myself if I could.

Hm.

Poriomania

[clementine]

I would hammer myself if I could.

Hm.

Poriomania

You're a bit of a funny one.... O.o

[Titus]

You're a bit of a funny one.... O.o

Ok not totally gone. I don't recall playing with you. Have we played together?

[Poriomania]

am I dead yet

Noctiz hammer, save me from this agony

[clementine]

Ok not totally gone. I don't recall playing with you. Have we played together?

We have not, but as a cohost of FM18, I feel like I have a good handle on your meta :P

[Dagaen]

Since Poriomania voted on himself (herself? Clementine uses "she" when referring to Porio) he is now hammered (4 votes in). No reason for any non-Joker to lie at this point, so we all win at night .

I just wanted to say "sorry" for my posts, probably made this more confusing than it should be. Hopefully this made entire thing more fun:P

[clementine]

Since Poriomania voted on himself (herself? Clementine uses "she" when referring to Porio) he is now hammered (4 votes in). No reason for any non-Joker to lie at this point, so we all win at night .

I just wanted to say "sorry" for my posts, probably made this more confusing than it should be. Hopefully this made entire thing more fun:P

It's a bit questionable to self-hammer so just to be safe we should get another person to vote him.

[NoctiZ]

I guess it's safe to vote now.

[vote]Poriomania[vote]

[NoctiZ]

Oops.

Poriomania

[Damus_Graves]

Poriomania has been lynched, his role was Citizen

[Damus_Graves]

And so order was reestablished

It seemed that someone had snitched on the impeding rebellion that was soon to unfold and the Guards got right on top of the mess before it occurred. What bullets they had left were used and spent against Rycan and it left them with none left to ensure that further order was kept among the other prisoners. Being outnumbered two to one the Guards were overwhelmed by the Survivors and the once proudly prison became an abandoned fortress in just one night.

Congratulations to Poriomania, Dagaen, RLVG, NoctiZ, Titus, and Clementine! The Survivors and Guards have won!

Rolelist:
Survivors:
NoctiZ - Citizen
Dagaen - Citizen
Poriomania - Citizen
RLVG - Citizen
Guards:
Titus - Vigilante
Clementine - Veteran
Joker:
Creedkingsx


Special Note: Every Citizen had one vest


Unfortunate Events:
When Titus thought to shoot Creed it was done because she thought he was the most town and wanted to narrow the odds down a bit between her and victory. Clementine had the right idea with a roleclaim but it was creed who lead the way for that too happen. This was a brilliant yet costly move that wound up getting him palced squarely within Titus' cross-hairs.

[Poriomania]

Ouch.

I find it strange that the guards put in the most work in the game but in the end we won.

[Damus_Graves]

MVP: No one
Tie between Titus and Clem and I cant choose between them.
Players Choice: Pending

[Dagaen]

Congratulations to Poriomania, Dagaen, RLVG, NoctiZ! The Survivors have won![/COLOR]


Wait, what about guards? The end ended with 2 Guards and 2 Survivors, shouldn't Guards win with us?

[Damus_Graves]

Wait, what about guards? The end ended with 2 Guards and 2 Survivors, shouldn't Guards win with us?

Whoops. Adding tht

[Poriomania]

Okay, cool.

clementine.

Put the most work into the game.

[Dagaen]

Yay! GG everyone.

Clementine

[Titus]

Clementine definitely was a smart playing guard in this one. I got lucky and shot the joker. I was intelligent but Clem was actually further along in the game than I was logically.

Clementine

[Titus]

On a side note, I cannot believe that all the survivors were citizens. That is probably what tripped me up quite a bit.

[Dagaen]

Well, that also killed Creed xD

[clementine]

Yay! Good job team! I'm secretly relieved that none of the survivors decided to be greedy and go for a survivors only win. :D

Titus for MVP.

Poor creed!

@Dagaen, not a bad effort for your first game! I hope to see you in another soon :D

[Dagaen]

I find it funny that "newbie" decision for Joker to claim Citizen (if you remember, I was pretty sure Joker will do this!) was correct one:D Who knows how this would end if Creed claimed Citizen as the rest of Survivors.

Thx Clementine, hopefully I will do better next time:)

[Cryptonic]

rip creed.
Joker is too weak. I don't think i've ever seen a Joker that was even close to being successful :P If I ever include one, town is only going to have 1 day and 1 night to kill his target lol.