The Marshall

[LeCapEtan]

Ok, can we please have a serious discussion about why the Marshall role exists in it's current form? Almost every single Marshall I've come across has merely activated his ability the 1st or 2nd day and proceeded to execute as many random people as possible. Today, finally, I saved 2 replays in which this happens. Both times it ruined the game for everyone involved (except for the few who won because of the idiocy), and in one case (the first replay I believe) the Marshall even admits that he will usually get the role because he can prefer it and plans on doing the same thing every time.

The fact is, the Marshall is a role that goes almost entirely against what Mafia is supposed to be about, and it's a roll just begging to be trolled with. Mass lynchings? I mean come on. It's getting to the point where I'm becoming more and more hesitant to play the map at all even though I love it because I don't want to waste 10 minutes of my life sitting in a lobby, loading up the game, and then having the game ruined 3 minutes into it.

[Mugy]

The marshall can be a troll role just as any other power role can be...
Troll jailor? Random execute 3 people in a row.
Troll Vigilante? Kill 4 people in a row.
Troll mayor? Vote up random people.

A lot of the time it isn't even the Marshall that's doing the trolling... He only gives the opportunity for people to random lynch several people in a row.
I agree that marshall needs to be tweaked so that it isn't as catastrophic in games where it is present, but it's mainly the sheep players that creates the problems.

On a side note, both replays have a point-hacker in them Lol

[LeCapEtan]

The marshall can be a troll role just as any other power role can be...
Troll jailor? Random execute 3 people in a row.
Troll Vigilante? Kill 4 people in a row.
Troll mayor? Vote up random people.

A lot of the time it isn't even the Marshall that's doing the trolling... He only gives the opportunity for people to random lynch several people in a row.
I agree that marshall needs to be tweaked so that it isn't as catastrophic in games where it is present, but it's mainly the sheep players that creates the problems.

On a side note, both replays have a point-hacker in them Lol

It's sad you can't see the difference.

It takes Jailor 3 days and nights to kill 3 people. He has to survive 3 days of possibly being lynched and 2-3 nights of possibly being murdered.

Vigilante, same thing. For every kill, he has to survive a night and day.

Mayor can vote up people and immediately leave himself exposed to being murdered. He can also get one person lynched a day.

The Marshall, using his power, can get up to 3 people lynched in 1 day and 6 over the course of 2 days. 6 deaths in two days from one person is faaaaaaaar too much.

Add on top of that if you notice a mayor/jailor/vig is trolling, you can easily kill/lynch him before he killed too many people. The marshall just has to survive 1 night and then he can easily get 3 people killed BEFORE anyone has a chance to stop his trolling. His ability should be 2 people (not 3) without trial, or 3 people just once WITH trials. This game is supposed to be about finding out who your enemies are and cleverly removing them, not random killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible so that no one has any fun. Right?

[cxx]

Dude, the Marshall doesn't kill 3 or 4 people per day, he only allows town to do so.
The ones lynching 3 or 4 people per day are the townies. There is nothing that forces them to lynch.

Also, your tears are delicious.

[Mugy]

It's sad you can't see the difference.

It takes Jailor 3 days and nights to kill 3 people. He has to survive 3 days of possibly being lynched and 2-3 nights of possibly being murdered.

Vigilante, same thing. For every kill, he has to survive a night and day.

Mayor can vote up people and immediately leave himself exposed to being murdered. He can also get one person lynched a day.

The Marshall, using his power, can get up to 3 people lynched in 1 day and 6 over the course of 2 days. 6 deaths in two days from one person is faaaaaaaar too much.

Add on top of that if you notice a mayor/jailor/vig is trolling, you can easily kill/lynch him before he killed too many people. The marshall just has to survive 1 night and then he can easily get 3 people killed BEFORE anyone has a chance to stop his trolling. His ability should be 2 people (not 3) without trial, or 3 people just once WITH trials. This game is supposed to be about finding out who your enemies are and cleverly removing them, not random killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible so that no one has any fun. Right?

I'd like to remind you that using up all the lynches is not a requirement. Again it's the problem with the players in the game.
Additionally, the marshall still only has 1 vote.
Not the marshall's fault most of the time.

[Mateo]

It's sad you can't see the difference.

It takes Jailor 3 days and nights to kill 3 people. He has to survive 3 days of possibly being lynched and 2-3 nights of possibly being murdered.

Vigilante, same thing. For every kill, he has to survive a night and day.

Mayor can vote up people and immediately leave himself exposed to being murdered. He can also get one person lynched a day.

The Marshall, using his power, can get up to 3 people lynched in 1 day and 6 over the course of 2 days. 6 deaths in two days from one person is faaaaaaaar too much.

Add on top of that if you notice a mayor/jailor/vig is trolling, you can easily kill/lynch him before he killed too many people. The marshall just has to survive 1 night and then he can easily get 3 people killed BEFORE anyone has a chance to stop his trolling. His ability should be 2 people (not 3) without trial, or 3 people just once WITH trials. This game is supposed to be about finding out who your enemies are and cleverly removing them, not random killing as many people as possible as quickly as possible so that no one has any fun. Right?

LETS GET RID OF PENS CUZ SOME PEOPLE WRITE HURTFUL THINGS, AND LETS GET RID CARS CUZ SOME PEOPLE DRIVE DRUNK!

like cxx said, marshall cant kill that many ppl a day, he only allows town to do so. he doesnt get any more voting power. if 3-4 ppl are being lynched d2, sounds like most of the town was complicit. and since his vote counts the same as the rest, he is just as likely to get lynched if he trolls as anyone else.

[LeCapEtan]

Ah ok, so it's just come down to that you long time players are bored and dont give a fuck anymore. I guess anything to make it more exciting for you.

P.S. The whole "you don't HAVE to lynch" is just a bullshit excuse and you know it. It's a game with 15 random people under anonymous names. Everyone here knows its easy to rile people up. Not to mention that most games have groups of friends in them, so even if there WERE people who didn't want to random lynch, the 4-5 friends will all start yelling and voting the same person, and then it's inevitable they'll get the 3-4 extra votes they need (on the first day, on the 2nd they often can lynch people from just their own votes) from stupid people who don't know they are just as likely to get lynched next. If the world/Mafia was devoid of stupid people, new people and trolls, I would agree with you.

The fact is, no other role can directly cause 3 lynches in one day/night (and he can do it twice). The MM is the only other one who could get that number, and he relies ENTIRELY on luck. Not a single other role approaches that many kills in that short a time. Have fun trolling amongst yourselves though, I'm out. I was hoping this might be a place of reasonable people, but I guess not.

[Poriomania]

The Marshall is certainty powerful, but IMO it's very swingy. You either catch a bunch of scum with it, or you random and self-incriminate your team. As with much of the roles, the Marshall's power is directly proportional to the brain of the person using it.

If I have four executions, I like to run up a townie on it and see who votes first the quickest. Then I kill all the people who vote earliest.

Another strategy is to reveal yourself early Day, and have everyone PM you their role. The great thing about the Marshall is that you don't have to wait to execute multiple people as with the Mayor - you just do it immediately. If multiple people don't PM you their roles (or PM them too slow) then you can get them.

[LeCapEtan]

The Marshall is certainty powerful, but IMO it's very swingy. You either catch a bunch of scum with it, or you random and self-incriminate your team. As with much of the roles, the Marshall's power is directly proportional to the brain of the person using it.

If I have four executions, I like to run up a townie on it and see who votes first the quickest. Then I kill all the people who vote earliest.

Another strategy is to reveal yourself early Day, and have everyone PM you their role. The great thing about the Marshall is that you don't have to wait to execute multiple people as with the Mayor - you just do it immediately. If multiple people don't PM you their roles (or PM them too slow) then you can get them.

Which would be fine and cool and sounds awesome (and I have actually seen the Marshall played like that ONCE). The problem is that the vast majority of the time trolls with tons of points set their account to prefer the Marshall JUST so they can troll. The Marshall, for all intents and purposes, is just a Mayor reconfigured for maximum troll.

[Cryptonic]

One time, a Lookout and Sheriff gave me conflicting information.
Lookout said no one visited 12 n2, and Sheriff said they checked 12 n2.
So, I lynched them both. They were Lookout & Sheriff. :( It's really up to the cooperation of the town to make Marshall effective.

[powerofdeath]

One time, a Lookout and Sheriff gave me conflicting information.
Lookout said no one visited 12 n2, and Sheriff said they checked 12 n2.
So, I lynched them both. They were Lookout & Sheriff. :( It's really up to the cooperation of the town to make Marshall effective.
Then one town fail, maybe one of them were witched?


If you hate marshall, host your own game without them, im sure u can wait extra 1-2 minutes

[Cryptonic]

Then one town fail, maybe one of them were witched?


If you hate marshall, host your own game without them, im sure u can wait extra 1-2 minutes

Yea, one of them failed.
There was only Killing & Benign Neutral :(

Yea, I don't mind marshall. Sometimes it's OP, other times it only manages to get one lynch off. Hell, I've seen Marshall reveal and no one was lynched. lol

[cxx]

Which would be fine and cool and sounds awesome (and I have actually seen the Marshall played like that ONCE). The problem is that the vast majority of the time trolls with tons of points set their account to prefer the Marshall JUST so they can troll. The Marshall, for all intents and purposes, is just a Mayor reconfigured for maximum troll.

If you really think Marshall and Mayor work alike, you are in no position to discuss. Maybe play a few more games and understand how the roles work - there are quite a lot, so take your time.

[LeCapEtan]

If you really think Marshall and Mayor work alike, you are in no position to discuss. Maybe play a few more games and understand how the roles work - there are quite a lot, so take your time.

You're right, I have no idea what I'm doing. I definitely have not been playing Mafia ever since it first premiered in WC3.

[Mateo]

You're right, I have no idea what I'm doing. I definitely have not been playing Mafia ever since it first premiered in WC3.

takes a big man to admit when hes wrong. your father should be proud

[Mugy]

Have fun trolling amongst yourselves though, I'm out. I was hoping this might be a place of reasonable people, but I guess not.

So everyone that doesn't agree with you isn't reasonable and is trolling?



he relies ENTIRELY on luck.

I don't think you understand this game as well as you think you do.



P.S. The whole "you don't HAVE to lynch" is just a bullshit excuse and you know it. It's a game with 15 random people under anonymous names. Everyone here knows its easy to rile people up. Not to mention that most games have groups of friends in them, so even if there WERE people who didn't want to random lynch, the 4-5 friends will all start yelling and voting the same person, and then it's inevitable they'll get the 3-4 extra votes they need (on the first day, on the 2nd they often can lynch people from just their own votes) from stupid people who don't know they are just as likely to get lynched next. If the world/Mafia was devoid of stupid people, new people and trolls, I would agree with you.


Which is why I said the problem is with the playerbase, not the role.

I agree that changes should be made, such as removing the ability to lynch four people per day or adding a hard counter like the MM has(bodyguard).
iirc, when a marshall lynches a jester, the marshall has a 100% chance of attempting suicide. Perhaps that should be experimented with more?

Edit: At least that's what I heard.

[ypmagic]

Needs more Coroner.

[Mateo]

Needs more Coroner.

I GOTTA FEVER, AND THE ONLY PRESCRIPTION IS MORE CORONER

[Anguss]

♥ Troll Marshalls and Mayors

[Deantwo]

The fact is, no other role can directly cause 3 lynches in one day/night (and he can do it twice). The MM is the only other one who could get that number, and he relies ENTIRELY on luck. Not a single other role approaches that many kills in that short a time. Have fun trolling amongst yourselves though, I'm out. I was hoping this might be a place of reasonable people, but I guess not.

SC2Mafia Wiki: Marshall#Options (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Marshall#Options)

you can change the Marshall's number of charges and number of lynches... if you dislike the Marshall having 2 charges and 3 lynches then lower it... and then start using the -repick command (http://wiki.sc2mafia.com/en/index.php/Commands#Repick) more and/or ask the hosts to change it...


Which is why I said the problem is with the playerbase, not the role.

I agree that changes should be made, such as removing the ability to lynch four people per day or adding a hard counter like the MM has(bodyguard).
iirc, when a marshall lynches a jester, the marshall has a 100% chance of attempting suicide. Perhaps that should be experimented with more?

^this

and as for the Jester suggestion... not sure threatening the the Marshall with death will help... but what about this:

if a Jester is lynched in a Marshall's group lynch... the Jester forces more then one person to suicide

[ariel135]

i havent read the replies,
but marshal is fine, the problem is with the other players who are lynch hungry.

you can activate ur abillity and thats it, no1 votes.

[Banshis]

In a secret ballot the marshall basically becomes useless. You can't get enough people usually to vote the same person if they are misguided. Once the time runs out of the day the marshall lynch doesn't even go through because there isn't enough votes on the people. The day just ends, but on regular days the person with the most votes gets lynched. SO if you really hate marshall, but there is a chance for it in your save go with a secret ballot. It almost ruins all of the marshall's power.