DCM - Day VIII: Indoctrination

[FalseTruth]

Day VIII

It will take 15 votes to lynch.

Rome Nobility Population:
Clawtrocity
Procyon
Rumpel
Zane



Unknown Roles List:
Coroner (Discovers the last target of the dead person as well as his last will)
Cardinal (Mason)/Citizen
Cardinal (Mason)/Citizen
Sicilian Janitor(No Cleanings Left)
Sicilian Random*
Napoli Consort
Serial Killer
Jester
*Randoms are limited to Mafioso, Consigliere, Janitor, Consort, and Framer.
**Three people were cleaned, so there are three less people than the unknown list shows.

Graveyard:
Pope Puis II (Pope) – Died Day 0 -1st of May, 1776; 6:43PM – Beheaded and branded in an alley.
Raiden (Cardinal) – Died Night 1 – 1st of May, 1776; 11:23 PM – Beaten and then shot once in the head.
Narks (Citizen) - Died Day 2 – 2nd of May, 1776; 2:43 PM – Heart attack and seizures.
NorthStar (Citizen) - Died Night 2 - 2nd of May, 1776; 9:17 PM - Executed by a Jailor.
Yayap (Swiss Guard) - Died Night 2 - 2nd of May, 1776; 11:43 PM - Shot through the heart with multiple bullets after being tortured.
SilentShadow (? ? ?) - ? ? ?
philie (Napoli Framer) - Died Day 3 - 3rd of May, 1776; 3:29 PM - Hung by the nobility of Rome.
Auckmid (Citizen) - Died Night 3 - 3rd of May 1776; 7:54 PM - Shot once after a struggle by a Roman crafted gun.
Deolrin (Armorsmith) - Died Night 3 - 3rd of May 1776; 8:34 PM - Shot once in the head after being beaten.
Elixir (? ? ?) - ? ? ?
CaressMeTenderly (Physician) - Died Night 3 - 3rd of May 1776; 10:07 PM - Mutilated and cut up with knives.
McPwnage (Sicilian Godfather) - Died Day 4 - 4th of May, 1776; 3:47 PM - Hung by Emperor Nero himself.
Severn (Amnesiac) -Died Night 4 - 4th of May, 1776; 7:37 PM - Bled to death due to fractured limbs.
S.A.S.Cnl.Alpha (Citizen) - Died Night 4 - 4th of May, 1776; 8:23 PM - Killed by a gun from Rome after long struggle.
Darth Sand (Sicilian Consigliere) - Died Night 4 - 4th of May, 1776; 8:57 PM - Dismembered and burnt to death.
AscendedOne (Swiss Guard) - Died Night 4 - 4th of May, 1776; 9:24 PM - Shot once in the back of his head while eating his dinner.
Monster (Illuminati Leader) - Died Day 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 2:49 PM - Hung by the nobility of Rome for the murder of the Pope.
Illidan (Emperor Nero) - Died Night 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 11:33 PM - Murdered in cold blood.
MileS (Illuminati) (Citizen) - Died Night 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 12:00 AM - Committed suicide in devotion to his master.
Crimson (Illuminati) (Jailor) - Died Night 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 12:00 AM - Committed suicide in devotion to his master.
divemaster127 (Physician) - Died Night 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 9:43 PM - Heart ripped out of his body.
Inca_Killa (Napoli Mafioso) - Died Night 5 - 5th of May, 1776; 10:36 PM - Shot in the heart.
chocopaw (? ? ?) - ? ? ?
Zack (Witch) - Died Day 6 - 6th of May, 1776; 6:26 PM - Burnt at the stake.
deathfire123 (Citizen) - Died Night 6 - 6th of May, 1776; 8:51 PM - Shot in the head.
MrSmarter (Gunsmith) - Died Night 6 - 6th of May, 1776; 9:37 PM - Beaten while tied to a barrel.
fred (Royal Investigator)- Died Night 6 - 6th of May, 1776; 11:32 PM - Amputated limbs.
vornskr (Napoli King) - Died Day 7 - 7th of May, 1776; 1:12 PM - Hung by the nobility of Rome.
oops_ur_dead (? ? ?) - ? ? ?
Ganondorf (Royal Investigator) - Died Night 7 - 7th of May, 1776; 11:59 PM - Shot once through the heart.

[Severn]

When are the FM IV sign ups going to happen btw?

[FalseTruth]

When are the FM IV sign ups going to happen btw?

When the hosts figure out when they want to do it.

[Severn]

Elixir hosting again?

[FalseTruth]

Elixir hosting again?

Claw-Oops

[Zack]

Well, time for town to decide, if they don't lynch Rumpel then he wins, cus his kill order at night is ahead of the mafia... Prcoyon would want to lynch Zane at this point, its his only hope for victory. Rumpel can take that gamble too, but Claw won't.

[Severn]

Just don't lynch then I guess. The jester won't want to lynch anyone but himself and the killing roles will shoot eachother at night... still no way for town to win unless the jester sides with them.

[Raiden]

Procyon must not vote. Any lynch means loss for the town.

Rumpel will vote Zane

Claw will vote Rumpel

In this scenario, town still has a chance, if rumpel kills claw and the jester sides with town.

[philie]

how about
all vote zane, rumpel kills the remaining, then suicides

[Severn]

Jester will probably side with sk though. No suicide if double kill.

[philie]

forgot that. So yeh, zane gets lynched, rumpel wins

[monster]

Ganondorf fun last will.


So the options for the day:

No lynch for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Claw for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Procyon for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Zane for Jester + Serial Killer victory

Lynch Rumpel for Cult victory

How did this happen we will never know. In a setup where SK victory is all but impossible, the SK is with highest chances to win.

[Raiden]

Yeah, it's fun because most people knew who the sk was by day 3. lol.

[Severn]

The sk who claimed doctor on first day lol.

[monster]

Yeah on top of that, a serial killer who has been confirmed since early in the game.

[FalseTruth]

On top of that, Procyon has admitted to be a flaming homosexual. Town is a lost cause.

[AscendedOne]

Bring out the jailor conversations at the very least.......

[Zack]

Procyon is likely to side with Claw in this and vote Rumpel, but Zane will never vote...

And yeah, town just let the SK live, resulting in more townie deaths in addition to mafia ones. Letting him live didn't help town win, infact had they lynched him instead of the red GF the two mafia factions might have taken each other out in the end.

This goes to show, don't rely on a serial killer to do your job for you town, it never ends well.

[Ganondorf]

Finally, I'm dead! I was wondering how long it would take them to kill me... finally I am at peace... ;D

[Zack]

Wait a second, the mafia kill went through? if oops was the one sent to kill, because Claw cleaned oops, and the SK targeted oops... Then oops technically wasn't supposed to be able to make his kill. Unless, that was a gun in the hands of Procyon..?

[monster]

On top of that, Procyon has admitted to be a flaming homosexual. Town is a lost cause.


This is game breaking, claiming a sexual orientation at this point of the game is overpowered. I hope the jester plays a trap card or the marines will be taking out that third nexus. Town could have won with a last minute touchdown but they are out of full rejuvenation potions. What is the moral of the story - If you want to build Kirov airships - don't play night elf.

[AscendedOne]

Ya I dont get it..... Shouldnt ganondorf still be alive? Claw can't make two actions, so oops had to be sent to kill. His kill would have been blocked by the SK....

[Ganondorf]

Ya I dont get it..... Shouldnt ganondorf still be alive? Claw can't make two actions, so oops had to be sent to kill. His kill would have been blocked by the SK....


+1

[AscendedOne]

Finally, I'm dead! I was wondering how long it would take them to kill me... finally I am at peace... ;D


I wonder how long your gonna be still dead.... Or how this all makes sense.

[Ganondorf]

Finally, I'm dead! I was wondering how long it would take them to kill me... finally I am at peace... ;D


I wonder how long your gonna be still dead.... Or how this all makes sense.


I don't really see how I could be resurrected for 2 reasons:
1) I haven't yet, but I could've technically read every dead chat topic by now
2) Only Jesus can be raised from the dead: for me to resurrect would go against my religion

[Ganondorf]

Actually, I would like to rephrase #2: only God can choose who can be raised...

[Yayap]

You shall remain dead until FalseTruth returns.

[FalseTruth]

Let's just say all kills are performed simultaneously at the exact same second.

[philie]

Actually, I would like to rephrase #2: only God can choose who can be raised...

americans never cease to amuse me >.>

[Yayap]

Let's just say all kills are performed simultaneously at the exact same second.


AWW... but that ruins towns chances.
With 2 townies, town still might pull this off.

[FalseTruth]

Let's just say all kills are performed simultaneously at the exact same second.


AWW... but that ruins towns chances.
With 2 townies, town still might pull this off.

Yea well, I can't exactly resurrect Mr.Ganondorf here after he's seen the dead chat can I?

[philie]

is there anything i the dead chat that live chat doesnt know?

[Ganondorf]

1) I'll take it! We were screwed anyway...
2) Phillie, I agree that Americans are pretty amusing. I'm just trying to play the role of a devout Christian from 17th century (if I remember correctly) Rome, and the official position is that man cannot resurrect man without a little help from the father...

[Ganondorf]

I really don't care if you resurrect me or not: I'll go with whatever

[AscendedOne]

Yea well, I can't exactly resurrect Mr.Ganondorf here after he's seen the dead chat can I?

False..... we could still theorticly win, with ganondorf still alive like he should be. YOU ARE SABOTAGING TOWN.

[FalseTruth]

I can't make Ganondorf Jesus. Sorry.

[Ganondorf]

I can't wait to tell Claw that he's going to Hell now :)

[Yayap]

I can't make Ganondorf Jesus. Sorry.


How about Lazarus?

[AscendedOne]

Well hes not jesus, he left a fake corpse there to distract the town so he could leave. On his way out of town he hit his head and got a cuncusion. He just needs to get amnesia and go back into town :P.

[Darth Sand]

It's also pretty bad for the serial killer now. Your original rule would let him win if both or neither have a vest because Claw couldn't kill Rumpel. Now they will both die.

[monster]

Why do you think the SK doesn't have a vest?

[FalseTruth]

Yea well, I can't exactly resurrect Mr.Ganondorf here after he's seen the dead chat can I?

False..... we could still theorticly win, with ganondorf still alive like he should be. YOU ARE SABOTAGING TOWN.

Actually no. It could actually be potentially worse for town. Here's why.

2 town 1 jester 1 sk 1 mafia
mafia votes sk
sk votes mafia

If town lynches sk, mafia kills a town and the next day would be a 1 jester v 1 mafia v 1 town
If town lynches mafia, sk kills a town and the next day would be a 1 jester v 1 sk v 1 town
If there is no lynch, mafia kills a town and SK kills mafia making it 1 jester v 1 sk v 1 town OR (SK and mafia both kill town-unlikely)

In the current scenario AND the hypothetical scenario that Ganondorf lives town is still pretty much stuck with the jester deciding their fate.

[philie]

[If there is no lynch, mafia kills a town and SK kills mafia making it 1 jester v 1 sk v 1 town

so the kills still gonna happen at the same second? not that it makes a difference. Town still loses

[AscendedOne]

Techically, today's ONLY possibility is a sk or cult win. By ganondwarf dying because of a mere fluke, the day is not as it should. Under the right siutation jester could allow town to win, but now town stands no chance at all.

[Darth Sand]

Why do you think the SK doesn't have a vest?


I don't know if he has his vest and I don't know if Claw has a vest. If both have one, Rumpel should win (aka kill Claw without dieing) after 2 nights, if they attack each other both times, if both don't have vests Rumpel should win after one night if they attack each other.
Now they would both die.

[philie]

no change of rules pls. Ganon was an exception. this ruins all previous calculations done by whoever is playing now

[AscendedOne]

SABOTAGE!!!!!!!! WHY FALSE WHHHHHHHHHHYYYYYY....... The jester could have let us win like we rightfully deserved.....

[monster]

I counted the kills, the SK was never attacked he still has his vest.

[FalseTruth]

Techically, today's ONLY possibility is a sk or cult win. By ganondwarf dying because of a mere fluke, the day is not as it should. Under the right siutation jester could allow town to win, but now town stands no chance at all.

Again you are wrong. Suppose the town chooses not to vote today. The SK will surely kill the mafia. The mafia will have to decide whether to seal town's fate with a deciding kill OR attempt to kill the SK to check if he has used up his vest already. Common sense would dictate he would do the latter, because killing a townie is not beneficial to the mafia member.

The next day would be 1 sk v 1 town v 1 jester. The same, exact situation that would occur if Ganondorf did not die.

[Ganondorf]

Guys the rule change is good! Imagine this: there is no lynch today. Tonight, Rumpel and Claw attack each other (neither has a vest). Since attacks all happen at the same time, they kill each other and make the town win :)

[AscendedOne]

That was said before you went and changed the rules.....

[Ganondorf]

Wait a second... does anyone know if Rumpel and/or Claw still has a vest?

[FalseTruth]

That was said before you went and changed the rules.....

My scenarios are based on the assumption that the new rules are in effect. Do the math and you will see that Ganondorf dying is actually beneficial to town.

[AscendedOne]

I dont know for sure but claw was probably bluffing, he has no vest. As far as rumpel goes, thats kinda up in the air....

[Ganondorf]

That was said before you went and changed the rules.....

My scenarios are based on the assumption that the new rules are in effect. Do the math and you will see that Ganondorf dying is actually beneficial to town.


If the town should somehow win this, I think I deserve a "martyr" award in addition to whatever else I get....

[monster]

Wait a second... does anyone know if Rumpel and/or Claw still has a vest?


SK has an autovest which activates only if he is attacked. He was never attacked so he still night immune.
Claw has received 1 vest during night2 I believe and has since used it.

[FalseTruth]

no change of rules pls. Ganon was an exception. this ruins all previous calculations done by whoever is playing now

Actually, I can just say that these rules were always in effect because there was never an instance before this in the game where a killing role prevented another killing role from killing. Also, I like this method better to be completely honest. This is how it works in SC2 mafia I believe. All kills occur simultaneously -- not in a particular order.

[Ganondorf]

Yeah that's how SC2 mafia works.... I just had an instance where I (a mafioso) killed the last town and died on the same night because of the jester.... since no one was left alive, I got to see the jester win screen :)

[Darth Sand]

no change of rules pls. Ganon was an exception. this ruins all previous calculations done by whoever is playing now

Actually, I can just say that these rules were always in effect because there was never an instance before this in the game where a killing role prevented another killing role from killing. Also, I like this method better to be completely honest. This is how it works in SC2 mafia I believe. All kills occur simultaneously -- not in a particular order.


Still, the rules were different on the start of the game and people take those rules into account when deciding who to send to kill etc.

[FalseTruth]

no change of rules pls. Ganon was an exception. this ruins all previous calculations done by whoever is playing now

Actually, I can just say that these rules were always in effect because there was never an instance before this in the game where a killing role prevented another killing role from killing. Also, I like this method better to be completely honest. This is how it works in SC2 mafia I believe. All kills occur simultaneously -- not in a particular order.


Still, the rules were different on the start of the game and people take those rules into account when deciding who to send to kill etc.

I am sorry for that. I realize I made a mistake, I am only human after all.

[Raiden]

no change of rules pls. Ganon was an exception. this ruins all previous calculations done by whoever is playing now

Actually, I can just say that these rules were always in effect because there was never an instance before this in the game where a killing role prevented another killing role from killing. Also, I like this method better to be completely honest. This is how it works in SC2 mafia I believe. All kills occur simultaneously -- not in a particular order.


This. I approve. Next FMs should use these rules.

[AscendedOne]

I am sorry for that. I realize I made a mistake, I am only human after all.




Hello. God here reminding you of the night action ordering.

The order of operations is:
-1. Jailing
0. Talking
1. Amnesiac chooses role
2. Blocking
3. Witch Control
4. Cardinal Recruiting
5. Illuminati Recruiting
6. Protecting/Giving/Framing
7. Serial Killer Killing/Sicilian Mafia Killing/Napoli Mafia Killing
8. Gun Item Killing
9. Healing
10. SK auto-vest(If he has one and hasn't been healed already.)
11. Cleaning
12. Detecting
13. Coroner Examination

If you feel confused, don't be. God makes mistakes sometimes too. He's just really good at covering it up.


LIAR!

[monster]

Sigh, why can't Zane or Procyon just type - "I won't be voting for anyone" and just be done with this day and this game. False you could go encourage them. :P

[Yayap]

This is going to be a long day.
No one trust anyone, with good reason.

If Rumpel gets lynched
a-Claw wins by killing 1 person
b-keeps his untrusting word and not kill anyone and lynch Zane after letting the 50/50 decide if he wins or town
c-keeps his untrusting word and doesn't kill for 1 night, Lynch Zane and then kills procyon: 50/50 would be he wins or nobody wins

If Claw gets lynched
Rumpel wins by killing 1 person

If Zane gets lynched
Rumpel gets double kill, and claw gets a shot. I still think that Rumpel still has a vest so Rumpel wins

If Procyon gets lynched
Claw would have to shoot Rumpel and hope that he has no vest, Rumpel kills Claw = most likely Rumpel win

If nobody is lynched
Rumpel killing claw=win unless Claw attacks a vest and jester backstabs him next day by voting SK with town.


The only possibility that Rumpel has no vest is if a gunsmith gun removed it.

[philie]

would need confirmation from zack
also claw might have 2 vests by now
rumpel could kill procylon next night cause im sure claw has been saving up his vest for this anyway

[Yayap]

The only wild card at this stage of the game is if Claw has any vests left or not. If Claw was smart, he should still have BOTH of them.

Damn I hate my internet connection here, took me 9 mins to post this... keep loosing the signal. Philie posted what I had in mind

[Deathfire123]

Ganondorf fun last will.


So the options for the day:

No lynch for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Claw for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Procyon for Serial Killer victory

Lynch Zane for Jester + Serial Killer victory

Lynch Rumpel for Cult victory

How did this happen we will never know. In a setup where SK victory is all but impossible, the SK is with highest chances to win.


Wrong, No lynch is for Town victory if sk and mafia attack each other. Either: A: SK doesnt have vest and will die along with mafia, or B: Sk DOES have vest and survives but then its jester and cit and sk left.....hmm...that IS an sk win nevermind.

[FalseTruth]

Most Likely Scenario: No lynch.

Rumpel Kills Claw.

New rule allows Claw's kill to go through.

Claw will probably attempt to kill Rumpel to test if the vest has been used up already.
Result: 1 sk v 1 town v 1 jester

Jester decides winner.

[Yayap]

After reading the jailor night chats, I only have one word for Crimson: Why?

[Zack]

Again rather frustrating that I am not alive during this critical phase... I had such evil plans. curse you vornskr!

Rumpel is not good enough to be the final villain left alive... He was too obvious and should have been lynched early on as any found scum deserves, town chose to have mercy and let him win. This ain't no mafia, this is Sympathia.

[Yayap]

Again rather frustrating that I am not alive during this critical phase... I had such evil plans. curse you vornskr!

Rumpel is not good enough to be the final villain left alive... He was too obvious and should have been lynched early on as any found scum deserves, town chose to have mercy and let him win. This ain't no mafia, this is Sympathia.


You should have used you evil powers to control Illidan to lynch Rumpel.
Although the most evil thing you could have done is make Zane instant win by making him cult.

[Zack]

lol, if I knew who the cult leader was before he was lynched then yes, I could have done that...

[AscendedOne]

It's funny how people thought that me saying "claw wasn't getting a gun" ment that I was the gunsmith. It's because I knew it would be freakin stupid.

[Yayap]

It's funny how people thought that me saying "claw wasn't getting a gun" ment that I was the gunsmith. It's because I knew it would be freakin stupid.


Well, I somehow got a vest by posting a list of suspicions with nothing backing it up so.. but then again, a vest is less dangerous than a gun.

[FalseTruth]

awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?

[Yayap]

awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?


I liked Elixirs way in FM2. You could follow his example.
Did the night actions get sent in yet?

[FalseTruth]

awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?


I liked Elixirs way in FM2. You could follow his example.
Did the night actions get sent in yet?

Yes.

[Yayap]

Are you waiting for Goonswarm to be online before concluding this game?

[FalseTruth]

Are you waiting for Goonswarm to be online before concluding this game?

No we are waiting for Oops to finish photoshopping the awards.

[Elixir]

awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?


I liked Elixirs way in FM2. You could follow his example.
Did the night actions get sent in yet?



I decided to do that 30 mins before the game ended. Lol.

Oops will make sure the awards don't look "goatse".

[Ganondorf]

So... if the game ended, can anyone tell me who won? Or is that just going to be a surprise...

[FalseTruth]

So... if the game ended, can anyone tell me who won? Or is that just going to be a surprise...

Surprise. Also, who said the game ended?

[monster]

I hate surprises.

The Bus driver wins.

[Ganondorf]

1) I agree: there should be a bus driver in FM IV.
2) Yayap said it and you confirmed it when you said you were waiting for oops to finish the awards

[FalseTruth]

1) I agree: there should be a bus driver in FM IV.
2) Yayap said it and you confirmed it when you said you were waiting for oops to finish the awards

Well, I2 could be waiting for oops to finish photoshopping so I can start day and as soon as someone gets lynched, BAM, Epilogue.

[monster]

Nah, Claw probably murdered the jester in rage.

[Yayap]

Surprise. Also, who said the game ended?


Well, let's look at the evidence:

Exibit A:

Night VIII

Night VIII will end soon.
Suggesting that the night will be short and would result in 2 possibilites:
1- Game ends
2- New day

Exibit B:






awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?


I liked Elixirs way in FM2. You could follow his example.
Did the night actions get sent in yet?

Yes.

Suggests that all night actions were sent in.
New day has not been posted yet, suggesting that there is something unfinished.

Exibit C:


awards, awards, and more awards... hmmm how shall I go about doing this? Any suggestions?

Looking for suggestions on how to post Awards.

Exibit D:



Are you waiting for Goonswarm to be online before concluding this game?

No we are waiting for Oops to finish photoshopping the awards.

Shows that you are awaiting said awards for the new day.


Conclusion: Evidence shows that the new day will be the last and will have the awards posted in it. Indicating that the game ended.

[FalseTruth]

Or maybe I knew you were going to come up with all these "exhibits" and therefore said all those things to trick you. Then, I would be typing this to trick you into thinking that this is being said to confuse you, when it is actually the truth!

I win. Yayap the logician loses.

[Ganondorf]

Comon guys, this is dead chat! Leave the WIFOM for the living...

[Yayap]

But it's fun playing WIFOM with FalseTruth. I'm looking forward to being able to do it again in the next game. Although this time, I may not tell all my findings so fast.

[Ganondorf]

-.-

[Illidan]

I like the new rules. Honestly it doesn't make sense to make a faction overpowered especially in endgame with that arbitrary order.

Now I'm curious and I want the new day :3 gogo false!

[Yayap]

Well, I'm going to bed now. Looks like I'll have to wait till tomorrow to see end game.

[Elixir]

Or maybe I knew you were going to come up with all these "exhibits" and therefore said all those things to trick you. Then, I would be typing this to trick you into thinking that this is being said to confuse you, when it is actually the truth!

I win. Yayap the logician loses.


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/Whitetree/inception_meme.png

[Raiden]

It's funny how people thought that me saying "claw wasn't getting a gun" ment that I was the gunsmith. It's because I knew it would be freakin stupid.


It was not just that. You said he wasn't getting a gun AND you would not get a gun either. It was day 1, i didn't put a lot of weight in your words, but that was the closest thing to claiming gunsmith. I revised my assumptions pretty soon.

And now that i look back at my mason chat... i got 3/5 bad guys after DAY 1. I mean lol.

[Ganondorf]

This night is taking forever! The suspense is killing me... again...

[FalseTruth]

This night is taking forever! The suspense is killing me... again...

oops wants to take a break to make a game in java.

[Yayap]

Night VIII: the fastest night for receiving night actions and at the same time, probably one of the few that will last over 24 hours.

[Ganondorf]

Is it really so difficult to photoshops few awards that oops needs to take a break?

[Yayap]

@Ganondorf:

Facepalm, Falsetruth beat you.

[Ganondorf]

@Ganondorf:

Facepalm, Falsetruth beat you.


lolwut?

[monster]

Talk about anti-climactic - everyone is waiting for the serial killer to be officially congratulated on his stellar performance. Oh, I do hope he receives an extra shiny banner.

[Ganondorf]

I don't think Rumpel wins (yet). The way I see it, the only faction that can win NOW is the town... Rumpel and Claw would still have to deal with Procyon (assuming they attack each other)

[AscendedOne]

I think claw seeing as he couldnt possibly win killed the townie to speed up the game. Town can ONLY win if claw and rumpel attack eachother and the jester decides to help town out.

[Ganondorf]

I'm thinking that, if Claw and Rumpel both attack each other, Rumpel won't have a vest (possibly an N1 kill used it up) and Procyon will win. Of course, Claw could choose to favor the SK, but I think he'd rather let the town win

[AscendedOne]

I'm going to say that SK still has vest, seeing as the orange mafia roleblocked him and never attacked him and well we can only guess about the red mafia's doings. Guess it would explain why claw was so sure that rumpel was SK.

[monster]

Ganondorf you seem to not understand the rules of the game.

The serial killer has a vest that activates only if he is attacked. He was never attacked so his vest is still up. Rumpel cannot die tonight. So that leaves 2 scenarios:

1)They attack each other or Claw doesn't attack, which leaves the win in the hands of the jester.
2)Rumpel kills Claw, Claw kills one of the others = SK win.

Obviously if scenario1 was the case there would be no reason for False to delay the day. So we can assume that scenario2 happened. It is not that hard.

[AscendedOne]

Monster I believe ganon thinks that the SK may have been attacked already, which would allow them to kill eachother. I don't think so.

[monster]

I thought he meant that the SK activated his vest night one. OK...
He was never attacked. Night one the attacks were - orange - Raiden, red - Narks(healed), SK - blocked.

[Ganondorf]

So the consort said he blocked Rumpel?

[Illidan]

So the consort said he blocked Rumpel?

You can see that by yourself in the subforum: http://www.thecouncilofmages.com/forum/index.php/topic,1926.msg20136.html#msg20136

[Ganondorf]

Oh OK (I haven't read most of the older topics)...

[vornksr]

Again rather frustrating that I am not alive during this critical phase... I had such evil plans. curse you vornskr!


:(

I'm sorry. I didn't kill you out of spite: I didn't expect that there was any possible way that the day would end in a no-lynch, and I figured that our team's only chance of winning depended on me having some sliver of credibility.

(Sorry to say you probably won't get a chance to exact your revenge on me, either. As this game proved, at the moment I just don't have enough time to play the game at a reasonable level. Most days, I had to read through the thread once as fast as I could, make a couple posts on the fly, and later on make plans while doing real life stuff based on what I could remember. It wasn't fair to my teammates. :()

[philie]

but you are done moving?... oh no, you're actually a good player even though you killed me. It's a shame you cant be in it, you add to the quality of the game.

[Raiden]

Well, next FM is anonymous and closed setup. Even half a vornksr is more than some players here :) please sign up!

[Yayap]

Vornskr, please join in even if you don't have much time. With the anonymous setup, I shouldn't be able to discover who you are and therefore you might be the wild card that can get away. And besides, it doesn't take that much strategy or forsight for some roles like the jester, survivor, witch or even sheriffs/investigators. You don't have to be the town spokesman to compete.

[Ganondorf]

36 hours later, it is still night...

[Yayap]

36 hours later, it is still night...


You mean 46 hours.

[Ganondorf]

Yeah but I was referring to my complaint 36 hours ago that the night was taking too long... little did I know we would still be waiting now

[FalseTruth]

lol, oops is very unreliable. You guys might want to prepare for a very long FM IV.

[oops_ur_dead]

^ butthurt that I'm on my break.

[AscendedOne]

Taking your sweet time oops?

[McJesus]

how did we let a sk we knew for the longest time get into this situation? Yeash

[AscendedOne]

Cuz we wanted to kill cult leader and instead we lynched a GF by mistake.

[Yayap]

lol, oops is very unreliable. You guys might want to prepare for a very long FM IV.


Thats what Claw is for.

[Yayap]

Wow... the forums are deserted at this hour when there is no forum mafia going on. Only Rumpel, Troll (Initiate) and me are online right now.

[AscendedOne]

Forums appear to be winding down in general, sure people would be on but other then forum mafia theres not alot going on in the forums.

[monster]

It has been almost 3 weeks since this forum mafia started, I have already forgotten what took place in the first days. GOGO end it and gief forum mafia 4.

[AscendedOne]

STOP THE CLIFFHANGER....

[monster]

False, give an estimate when is the ending coming, please.

[FalseTruth]

False, give an estimate when is the ending coming, please.

Ask oops, I have no idea.

[philie]

lol just ask yayap instead, i bet oops is being an ass on purpose

[monster]

Yeah, I am really looking forward to him being host in the next forum mafia. He is very punctual and responsible.

[Clawtrocity]

the fuck?

[Clawtrocity]

Nevermind, I just had my mind fucked for a second.

Where's the epilogue?

[monster]

SUPPLIES

[philie]

oh claw in dead chat
where your vests at claw

[FalseTruth]

oh claw in dead chat
where your vests at claw

I just put him in dead chat so he could see our suggestions for FM 4. He may or may not be dead.

[Raiden]

Yeah, I am really looking forward to him being host in the next forum mafia. He is very punctual and responsible.


*

[Clawtrocity]

I may or may not be dead.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I'm dead.

Anyways I've been reading all this and since you can't see the mod forums I have some information for the majority of you participating in FM4

1: Game will be capped at 35 players.
2: Game will be closed.
3: Game will feature roles from SC2 and the Suggestion board.
4: Role list will show possible roles not how many of each though.
5: Jailor will be able to jail each night, talk to his inmate, and block him. Executes on no lynch(Optional)
6: Rule list will be very similar to FM3. No codes allowed.
7: Even though the game is closed you will know that there will only be 1 mafia team.
8: The RP element will take place in an interesting era.
9: We will have anonymity in this game in some way shape or form.
10: Death Chat will be interesting again.(False did a good job with this)

Mod Edit: *Fixed*

[Yayap]

I'm dead.


Now you get to read the dead chat and learn that your survival over Miles and Crimson wasn't random at all. We decided to let you live since we loved watching you rage and make a fool out of yourself. :P

[Deathfire123]

Oops is lazy, FalseTruth is unskilled, and were all impatient

[Clawtrocity]

I'm dead.


Now you get to read the dead chat and learn that your survival over Miles and Crimson wasn't random at all. We decided to let you live since we loved watching you rage and make a fool out of yourself. :P


I knew it wasn't random. However you guys didn't know who you were saving.

[Yayap]

I knew it wasn't random. However you guys didn't know who you were saving.


Go see the cult topic and DCM - Day V: Retribution Reply #216

I voted after posting that. You'll see that I knew who I was saving.

[Clawtrocity]

Actually, I didn't vote because I was sleeping. It literally all happened after I went to sleep and woke up to monster being lynched. I would of voted for monster after Illidan had I been awake and Illidan waited for me to go to bed before he posted the info so he could say stuff like "See Claw shut up" "Claw is scared now"

I already was planning on revealing the information anyway since well before Illidan ever said anything about checking a theory or the code I said in code to Oops "I'm revealing this later if either of us get pressure" I wanted the cult leader dead. It just happened that I got culted and was trying to make other people seem like cult leader too. The thing is everything is easier to look back on. It's one of the main reasons I didn't want to play in the next one because of the stubborn-ness of the majority of the players. "Oh shit X might be mafia" "Actually Y could be mafia and X could be clean" "Nope that's stupid you're also mafia for defending X cause he's 100% mafia"

When you flip as town and you say shit like that it pisses me off. Obviously mafia members are trying to do that constantly to cause confusion and chaos, but when a town role does it because they think they're being helpful it just ruins the game. Too many people are busy making giant lists of who's good and bad and too worried about being 100% right on all the choices instead of actually playing the game and letting it develop. With a closed role list I think we can make this next game more interesting and appealing to more than just the power roles. Citizens will have the power to claim whatever they want without the worry of counter-claiming. No one will be able to prove what roles are taken and which ones are still alive.

Either way, this last game was fun, but I just wished that I could of claimed Janitor earlier to clear McPwnage before the cult leader got me. We maybe would of won if that happened. it would of been less up to the town and the lynches and more up to the mafia's and if they wanted to attack each other.

[Raiden]

lol.

[Ganondorf]

73 hours since the night began... Claw, in response to your complaint about the stubbornness of players, all I have to say is that paranoia makes people do funny things. I think people didn't know what to do when 6 people don't role claim on day 1 :-\

[Severn]

By the way Claw, did you guys actually know who I was or was it just a bluff threat in the death notes?

[oops_ur_dead]

Oops is lazy, FalseTruth is unskilled, and were all impatient

I am on my break and on caffeine withdrawal.

I will do the shit tomorrow.

[FalseTruth]

Oops is lazy, FalseTruth is unskilled, and were all impatient


Captain Obvious to the rescue!

[Clawtrocity]

By the way Claw, did you guys actually know who I was or was it just a bluff threat in the death notes?


Bluff

Also, fuck you for not taking McPwnage and saving your own life god damnit =P

[AscendedOne]

Claw, why did you really want to know my third day of investigations?

[Clawtrocity]

I don't know that was like a week ago. I have shitty memory.

I'm sure I was just trying to act interested to seem pro-town. At some point though I started ignoring my pro-town vibe and went straight on the "Illidan thinks I'm the jester so why the fuck not" vibe. It may have been me nagging you about something to make you either look bad or if you actually gave me it for me to call you or the person you invested out on something to divert any attention away from me so I'd look bad.(I.E. Jester move)

I did stupid shit this game, but you know why I did it based on everything I said. Can you guys read the red mafia chat yet or is that just me?

[fred]

Anyone want a signature made? I've made a few so far xD

Made goon's, mine, chocopaws (both) and one for Envy that hasn't been used :p

[CaressMeTenderly]

yeacan you make me one with the SILHOUTTE OF A NAKED MAN

[fred]

I don't want to take that project up X_x

[Illidan]

Actually, I didn't vote because I was sleeping. It literally all happened after I went to sleep and woke up to monster being lynched. I would of voted for monster after Illidan had I been awake and Illidan waited for me to go to bed before he posted the info so he could say stuff like "See Claw shut up" "Claw is scared now"
Really, no. It just took a shitload of time to gather all the informations from the posts and I posted it right after I finished checking all the posts.

Also, in response to the other post, you didn't really acted pro-town even for a second, both day1 and day2, at least in my eyes ... and I'm sure many here had the same idea. Too bad you were acting so much anti-town that I pegged you as jester until your coroner claim. If it was your intention from the beginning to fake jester props to you, you did it fairly well, but it doesn't seems so reading your posts.

I think that a closed setup may be better, we'll see in the next FM. If the setup isn't closed it's obvious people try to make lists and fit bad people in the right spots, I think it's natural.

[CaressMeTenderly]

I don't want to take that project up X_x

ok
what
about this
a

mushroom
long
narrow
with a broad tip
and a slight slice down the top part of the middle
painted in a pinkish hue
and two
rocks
right next to it
in an oval fashion

with caress me tenderly in the backgrounfd

[AscendedOne]

II'm sure I was just trying to act interested to seem pro-town. At some point though I started ignoring my pro-town vibe and went straight on the "Illidan thinks I'm the jester so why the fuck not" vibe. It may have been me nagging you about something to make you either look bad or if you actually gave me it for me to call you or the person you invested out on something to divert any attention away from me so I'd look bad.(I.E. Jester move)

I did stupid shit this game, but you know why I did it based on everything I said. Can you guys read the red mafia chat yet or is that just me?


I never thought you were town intill like a day after you made the coroner claim. Had I thought it through, I probably would have realized what you tried to pull. Addtionally you never tried anything on the target I said was town, course illidan started lynchin people like 2 hours after it.

I realized little good could come from telling you who I got clean, but meh I didn't really care. The orange mafia killed servern cuz they thought he was cult leader, me saying my investigation of him turned out negative may have influenced them to think about him.

No we do not have acess to red mafia chat, nor cult chat.

[Deolrin]

It's as if the tension and anticipation slows down time itself!

[Yayap]

Yay. New stuff to read.

[FalseTruth]

Yay. New stuff to read.

Compliments of Philie.

[Raiden]

Omg new night chats. Brb reading.

[Raiden]

I have a question for you, Claw.

Did you honestly believe anyone paying attention would see you as a townie? Because i'm quite shocked at how you got mad at Illidan (even though you say you aren't, it's crystal clear you are - maybe not personally but you admitted you hate his playstyle). I know he can speak for himself, i'm only asking this because - as you surely have read in dead chat - i had you as a bad guy since half of day 1. I would have acted in the same way as he did, at least about you. I don't want to believe you are just pissed off because it didn't go as you planned, so... in the name of politeness, i ask you: why are you so mad? It was definitely not personal.

[Darth Sand]

"I just can't see him using Notepad++ to keep notes. He lives in europe so I had a feeling when I first read it that Darth gave it up, but I don't really care if he cheated."

Aww, thanks.
Being from Europe really seems to be suspicious, for whatever accusation (mafia, cheating,...).

No, I'm not angry :3

[Clawtrocity]

You were the only person who knew about it, were in the same area as him. You talk to all these other people from the same geographical location. I didn't know if he was in your clique or not.

Also, You're worse than Illidan is Raiden. You build the set in stone lists too trying to be the best for whatever reason. You haven't been able to play much so that's the main reason I see for you wanting to do that kind of thing, but to do it in the daytime is stupid.

You said I was aggressive. I might be maifa, BUT I COULD JUST BE CIT LIKE I WAS LAST GAME. That's what you said. So you're taking my actions from a previous game(where I acted agressive) and called me mafia. On day 1. As a mason. Who died.

So instead you thought since I was mafia I should change the way I play(Aggressive) and act more calm and laid back so people can say "Oh fuck he's not talking much he's always agressive he's mafia"

It's a double-edged blade that fucks you either way. I couldn't not be aggressive because I'd look suspicious. I couldn't be aggressive, because then I'm suspicious and in the open. There's no middle ground when it games to non-anonymous games because people always compare your gameplay to past games.

UPDATE:
Offical role list is done. Randomization is done. Role cards are done. RP is pending.

We're doing a warcraft themed Mafia game. Hopefully oops will have the photoshoppings done soon if not you should give them to Elixir or something just so we can get the ball rolling. FM4 will start SHORTLY after FM3 ends. Be prepared.

[Darth Sand]

You were the only person who knew about it, were in the same area as him. You talk to all these other people from the same geographical location. I didn't know if he was in your clique or not.



Illidan using Notepad++ was unlikely, but why do you have to think of cheating first?
I certainly don't care where a person is from or if he is "from my clique" when playing mafia.

[AscendedOne]

Well damn, I was looking forward to infamous 2 mafia..... Oh well....

[Clawtrocity]

That was Elixir's idea. That will be FM5.

[AscendedOne]

Oh...

[divemaster127]

Anyone have a time estimate when fm3 will end and fm4 will start the wait is physically killing me.

[Yayap]

Anyone have a time estimate when fm3 will end and fm4 will start the wait is physically killing me.


Oops can estimate that.
I guess Falsetruth and Goon can also estimate it if they decide to take over the job of photoshopping the awards.

[Raiden]

You said I was aggressive. I might be maifa, BUT I COULD JUST BE CIT LIKE I WAS LAST GAME. That's what you said. So you're taking my actions from a previous game(where I acted agressive) and called me mafia. On day 1. As a mason. Who died.

So instead you thought since I was mafia I should change the way I play(Aggressive) and act more calm and laid back so people can say "Oh fuck he's not talking much he's always agressive he's mafia"

It's a double-edged blade that fucks you either way. I couldn't not be aggressive because I'd look suspicious. I couldn't be aggressive, because then I'm suspicious and in the open. There's no middle ground when it games to non-anonymous games because people always compare your gameplay to past games.


I said what i said in mason chat when i still had a doubt about you. I wasn't willing to kill you at that time, if i had the chance to. I was just taking notes for the future masons. Perhaps you were only trying to survive the first day, that's what i thought. In the end, all i did was admitting that i didn't have a 100% clear read on you, and even if the game was anonymous, i could just have said "maybe this anonymous guy is playing the aggressive citizen just like claw did in fm2". Why are you so upset about this, honestly, i will never know.

However, after a couple day 2 posts, i completely changed my mind and started to think of you being 100% anti-town, regardless of anything you did in the past. Was i correct? Yes.
Now you say that if you played less aggressively, i would have thought you were mafia because it wouldn't match your usual playstyle. And you are wrong. I couldn't care less if your playstyle is different from previous fms, all i care about is whether your behavior is helpful for the town or not. Just look at my argument against yayap, i said almost the exact same things to him, except he was actually town, so i really didn't like how he played. I might be wrong, of course, but that's what i think.

You just jumped on conclusions which not only turned out wrong, but are making you look like a paranoid, because everyone hates you and everyone wants to make you lose early. Seriously, when did you start to think that? I am responsible for your early death in fm2, but man i was mafia, i didn't care if you were orange or town. You can't take stuff like this on a personal level. And allow me to repeat myself, i would have thought you were mafia even if you were Player12 instead of Clawtrocity.

The only thing i can agree with is that, without anonymous setup, "big" names (such as mods and/or veteran fm players) will be always targeted first and considered mores than "small" names. This game is also a clear demonstration of this, however the reasons are completely different from those you stated.

Please think this thoroughly, and hopefully you'll understand what i mean.



Also, You're worse than Illidan is Raiden. You build the set in stone lists too trying to be the best for whatever reason. You haven't been able to play much so that's the main reason I see for you wanting to do that kind of thing, but to do it in the daytime is stupid.


Now while everything else you said in your post was understandable - however wrong it was - this is just rambling. It's not even true. I don't set my list in stone. I changed my lists a lot, both now and in previous games. And of course i try to be correct, what am i, stupid? Why should i make lists which i KNOW to be wrong and ridicolous? Does anyone you know play to be the worst player, on purpose? Everyone should try his best. Again, i will never know why you are so upset about it.

I didn't expect this kind of answer at all. For now, i'll just assume you are mad because you lost, and you are speaking without proper caution.

[oops_ur_dead]

I'm done the awards.
FM4 will start within a week.

[philie]

Nobody cheated. You just got outplayed. Now let it go and see it as a lesson for the future.

[Clawtrocity]

herpderp I don't get angry. I'm just aggressive by nature so anything I say is taken as paranoia, anger, ignorance, or arrogance.

Trust me. I hold no grudges to any of you guys for whatever reason. If you ask me about what I said in a week I'll be like "wut". I don't care about this tiny shit except for while it's happening. You have to realize that the paranoia is what I tried to use to safe my life. The constant "Well fuck I'm gonna die" "Everyone hates me" "Never made it past day 2 never gonna" is just a way for me to make the mafia think "Well fuck he might get healed, maybe not, well damn let's just attack someone else" Or for people to feel sympathy for me and give me free shit.(Armor)

I lived for a long ass time because I was this aggressive. I only needed to live long enough until the town lost it's majority and that happened around day 4-5. I knew at that point I could basically come clean about everything and there would be nothing anyone could do to stop me without forcing them to lose the game.

Oh and I know all of you thought I was lying about the whole flip of the coin thing at the end of the game. I was actually planning on lynching Zane and killing Proc. That way I'd either be the last man standing or no one won. Which was completely fine with me. It would be epic as shit if Zane won by himself.

THIS IS WHAT I DO WHEN I'M BORED AND WATCHING FOOTBALL ALGBKLANGK:AN:G:AG

Role cards will be public. How's that bitches?

[CaressMeTenderly]

Yeah all the europeans are in a conspiracy to win together w t f cheaters

[AscendedOne]

Ahh crap......

[Yayap]

Oh and I know all of you thought I was lying about the whole flip of the coin thing at the end of the game. I was actually planning on lynching Zane and killing Proc. That way I'd either be the last man standing or no one won. Which was completely fine with me. It would be epic as shit if Zane won by himself.





If Rumpel gets lynched
a-Claw wins by killing 1 person
b-keeps his untrusting word and not kill anyone and lynch Zane after letting the 50/50 decide if he wins or town
c-keeps his untrusting word and doesn't kill for 1 night, Lynch Zane and then kills procyon: 50/50 would be he wins or nobody wins

Ding ding ding ding ding!!!
Why can I read your intentions so well but not your role = you play as a cit no matter your role. Making you one of the hardest players to read. I expect you to be equally difficult in FM5. ;D

[Elixir]

hahahah

Claw was so afraid of the Coroner on night 1.

[AscendedOne]

Role cards will be public. How's that bitches?


OH GOD NO...... I can pretend to be a different role, but I cannot pretend to be a different person. It just aint me......

[Elixir]

N'aww GF stepped in and saved me on night 2.
<3 Pwnage

Claw seemed to adamant on murdering me.

[AscendedOne]

N'aww GF stepped in and saved me on night 2.
<3 Pwnage

Claw seemed to adamant on murdering me.


Claw is an identity theft, you were the easiest person to steal the identity of.

[Elixir]

He didnt know that at the time.

And they went to Check "Elixier" not me. Hax

[Auckmid]

I must ask... Why is Rumpel about to win the game??

[AscendedOne]

Because, I said town should attempt to lynch the cult leader a few nights ago, rather then rumpel the person I did not think was SK. Some people agreed with me, including Illidan the mayor. Illidan lynched a GF instead of the cult leader, which was actually worse then not lynching the sk.

[Elixir]

I hope the SK wins.

[Clawtrocity]

You guys can read red mafia chat? LOL


FUCKING FALSETRUTH MADE ME A GOD DAMN FRAMER

[AscendedOne]

The only way SK can lose is if claw decides to not kill tonight, and jester helps lynch the SK.

[AscendedOne]

You guys can read red mafia chat? LOL


FUCKING FALSETRUTH MADE ME A GOD DAMN FRAMER


Yes we can, we can also read cult chat. One of the reasons I did not decide to check you is cuz I feared a second framer.

[Auckmid]

I hope the SK wins.
He will.

Rumpel will kill Claw.
Zane will be lynched and win the game.
Rumpel will murder Procyon and win the game.

Honestly, I think the kill chart was preaty stupid, because it would be awesome if Procyon won because Claw and Rumpel killed each other, and it sucks that when Rumpel kills Claw, Claw will be roleblocked. The kill-chart was a good enough idea as a test in FM1, but I can't believe that it was still being used in FM2 and FM3

[AscendedOne]

Auckmid, mid game that killchart thing was changed cuz falsetruth messed up. Kills now happen at the same time. Regardless the SK most likely has a vest.

[Auckmid]

Auckmid, mid game that killchart thing was changed cuz falsetruth messed up. Kills now happen at the same time. Regardless the SK most likely has a vest.
Okay. I was on holiday, and just came back :)

[Ganondorf]

I performed my best action in death by removing the kill order... it's rather sad that my best contribution was an accident...

[AscendedOne]

Ganon, your death didn't help us at all. We would be in the EXTACT same situation except it would have taken an extra day to get into it.

[Elixir]

So...

Day IX yeah?

[Yayap]

I'm done the awards.


We are all waiting for it. I can hardly remember the game highlights for when it does get posted.

[Ganondorf]

Ganon, your death didn't help us at all. We would be in the EXTACT same situation except it would have taken an extra day to get into it.


I wasn't talking about who wins: I was talking about which rules people prefer. I too prefer the no-bias kill order, and I died because of it

[AscendedOne]

Well, it could be slightly bias. I'd be all for it being bias for SK's, since this was like a one in a million situation.

[Illidan]

I just can't see him using Notepad++ to keep notes. He lives in Europe so I had a feeling when I first read it that Darth gave it up, but I don't really care if he cheated.
Ouch. I don't really know Darth, it's the first time we play together as IIRC we never played together in SC2mafia either, so you can't just assume that because we're both from Europe we're cheating to beat US players.
I use Notepad++ on a daily basis as I'm an hobby programmer and when I don't use an IDE (like when editing xml/html/txt files) I use it so it doesn't fuck up line breaks / indenting / etc and has a plethora of useful features.
You should try to use it too instead of notepad, it's lightweight but awesome.

As for your message to the mayor: from what you write it seems you think I did what I did just because it was you. I hope that someone acts the same way you did in FM4 so I can do the same thing and accuse them too. I don't care who it is, if I see an anti-town player I will do the same thing over and over, even on an anonymous game.
Also I didn't based any of my reasoning on old games, I don't even followed FM1 when you were doc and I don't know what you did in that game.

[Illidan]

I'm done the awards.


AGH ME WANTS DAY IX NAOW.

[philie]

@illidan you did play with darth sand, you just dont remember:P her sc2 name is different.

and i am gonna second you on the subject of claw being very scummy from the very start. However, someone here in dead chat said Claw always acts like a jester so i assume he goes about accusing everyone and doing weird shit as his personal strategy.

The real scumtell however was knowing everyone's role from day 2 AND SAYING SO, completely ignoring darth sand whenever everybody was discussing her, saying shit like "im sorry you feel that way" and "trust me". Writing "would of" in a faked coroner report, buddying with yayap (which yayap didn't seem to mind) which was weird cause i genuinely thought they both were red mafia.
Now thats a reason good enought for anyone to take a closer look. Nothing unfair about that.

[Raiden]

[...] buddying with yayap (which yayap didn't seem to mind) which was weird cause i genuinely thought they both were red mafia.


I love you.

[Clawtrocity]

Nope, there's the problem. You are all ignoring what I'm trying to say.

I don't play anti-town. I play pro-logic. I try to figure out different situations that could be happening. So I say "Well Rumpel could be SK and Illidan could be cult leader, that'd make Oops and auckmid mafia" or some shit then "OH LUL YOU ARE ACCUSING RANDOM PEOPLE = JESTER" No.

That's the problem I have. I have a list as well. I used a spreadsheet to figure out roles and I was constantly plugging in different people into different places and explaining to the town all the different possibilities. Nothing ever happens that I wasn't expecting. Everytime someone dies I get more info on what other people are because then I 100000000000% know what that person's role is...because they are dead. That should be the only way you for sure know someone's role. All the things I was saying at the end were just being scoffed off as being impossible and yet BOOM McPwnage gets lynched. The second time I had to hide the Cult Leader according to my new win conditions. Still the fact that you just go with your gut feeling and end the game in like 20 seconds because you have these fucking lists which I proved could be 100% flip flopped and wrong you went on and lynched after you found the code. Lucky guess is all I can attest that to.

When anyone makes an accusation they are usually filled at one specific person and they are role claiming as a role. If I'm just talking possibilities it doesn't mean I'm set in stone with those people. You all just think I am because of the way you play.

herpderp

When's this game starting? Oops isn't going to be on a lot today so we may have to wait a bit. I may start some of the early stuff today if the FM3 stuff ends.

[Yayap]

[...] buddying with yayap (which yayap didn't seem to mind) which was weird cause i genuinely thought they both were red mafia.


I love you.

I don't remember giving out any opinions until I posted my suspect list. And even that was limited.

I had it noted down that he buddied me, I just never commented on it. Once Vornskr showed up day 2 (before I posted my list of suspects) we sorta had a complex 3 way buddy system going. It was in those messages with reverse psychology that I pinned Vornskr as mafia. I had also pinned Claw not being on Vorns team.

But I couldn't read Claw true role for multiple reasons:
- He never hinted, slipped or ninja claimed anything on day 1 and 2.
- His plan to save me from the cult would have benefited every faction, not just the towns.
- Until Crimson slipped later on, I'm quite sure Claw thought that I may have been the jailor, thus the subtle claim he thought to have found. From a town point of view that would = +trust and more inclined to buddy
- And I couldn't find any team connections to Claw. He looked like a one man army with no obvious backup.

I would have pinned him night2 since I was checking him when I got taken out from Vornskr.

I kept most of my opinions to myself since I wanted to avoid the attention of the framer on who I was checking next.

I see Claw posted before me again. I think the two of us play to similar to be able to read each other with any kind of certainty, we both were looking for clues and feeding off each others findings.

[Raiden]

latest post


Yeah... we don't agree on what is the definition of pro-town playing, you misunderstood basically everything we did and/or said, you jumped on the wrong conclusions and yet you believe you are the perfect player while the rest of us is shit :) that's what i got from this conversation.
I mean you put so much faith in your plan that when you realized that it failed miserably you started accusing people of cheating. This kind of behavior reminds me of first timers in fps or rts games, when they get their ass kicked so hard they didn't even understand what and how it happened. Perhaps i just thought too much of you, however i cannot help being extremely disappointed, both on game and personal level - because you know, you were the one starting insulting us, while i always thought of you in friendly terms.

Please refer to the following quotes for evidence:



Nothing ever happens that I wasn't expecting.




Still the fact that you just go with your gut feeling and end the game in like 20 seconds because you have these fucking lists which I proved could be 100% flip flopped and wrong




Also, You're worse than Illidan is Raiden. You build the set in stone lists too trying to be the best for whatever reason.




Claw is acting as jester/scum since day 1



Now probably you didn't read the whole dead chat, but here's something interesting for you:



He's not suspicious to me because he is Claw, if he was anyone else then he would be 100% suspicious.


Now i'd like to see if you accuse him of being worse than both me and Illidan because he compared your past playstyle, or if since he thought you were town it's ok.


Also when i was referring to your paranoia i wasn't talking about your in-game playstyle, but rather on what you did here in the dead chat, where strategy doesn't matter anymore.



So instead you thought since I was mafia I should change the way I play(Aggressive) and act more calm and laid back so people can say "Oh fuck he's not talking much he's always agressive he's mafia"

It's a double-edged blade that fucks you either way. I couldn't not be aggressive because I'd look suspicious. I couldn't be aggressive, because then I'm suspicious and in the open. There's no middle ground when it games to non-anonymous games because people always compare your gameplay to past games.


@yayap: i agree that you and claw are very similar in terms of playstyle, and i don't like both of you as townies, for reasons i already explained profusely. At least you had enough common sense not to throw random accusations and insults at people, and for that i can respect you.

[Clawtrocity]

lul

[monster]

Well guys, here is my two cents:

Clawtrocity played pro-town, he was actively participating in the discussion, he was not afraid to get into conflict, he was not afraid to draw attention to himself, he always provided his thoughts about the current situations, he accused people based on what information was available at the moment. This is considered pro-town behavior. It is basically the behavior of a citizen - doesn't care if he will be checked by a detective or killed at night. You have to realize that even if you are an evil role you can still maintain a pro-town behavior.

Making post like - "See I suspected Claw is mafia from day1, I am so good" just reveal how clueless you are. Don't mistake luck for skill. There are plenty of forum mafia guides written by far more experienced people than me - go check what is pro-town and what is anti-town - google is your friend.

Don't forget that this game was solved by roleclaims - after day3 people were making 95% accurate role lists - even if the exact roles were not correct, the alignment was. There were 0 town players who actually did any real post analysis while still alive.

That being said - the level of play is getting higher with every forum mafia we play within this community, looking forward to next one.

[Yayap]

There were 0 town players who actually did any real post analysis while still alive.


:'(

[monster]

There were 0 town players who actually did any real post analysis while still alive.


:'(


If you repeat what you did in this game in the next forum mafia - then I will change my opinion. ;)

[Raiden]

@monster: that is not, in any way, pro-town behavior to me and other people i mentioned (please correct me if i'm wrong). Our opinions differ and i accept that. Quoting mafia manuals won't serve any purpose.

Now you can think that's just luck if you wish, and i may agree with you if we consider that newbies will often play against their alignment without knowing it (giving out unintended clues, misleading their own team and so on), and that could make all of your calls wrong, even if you are the most experienced mafia player EVER. When you assume that every player is a decent player tho (and claw was an EXCELLENT mafia player up to day 4), luck leaves its place to deduction. Can we agree on this, or is yayap the worst noob ever because he got almost every bad guy correct on day 2 and he was just lucky?

Also this game was solved by yayap and illidan, roleclaims had little to do with that (not including investigations). The only people who actually roleclaimed early were Fred, Ascended and a couple of citizens. Everyone else claimed on or after day 4, when most of the lists were next to final state.

[Yayap]

If you repeat what you did in this game in the next forum mafia - then I will change my opinion. ;)


Translation: Do it again so I know what your in-game name is.

Response: Nice try.

[monster]

Nah, the translation is a actually:

You put the names of 6 people forward during day2 and said they are not town - you only provided analysis of a single post of philie and it was borderline fail. Your reasoning for the others was something like - "I can't tell you my logic, because nobody will understand it". In addition to that I am almost sure you were checking what times people log on and which people were online at the same time during the nights, which is not really cheating but is frowned upon. Everything you said when you were dead is irrelevant of course, even if it was 100% correct.

So what I am saying is that you were lucky and can't do it again. If you actually do it again then I will admit I am wrong. :)


@Raiden - I am not going into a deep discussion with you, I can agree to disagree.

[Yayap]

You put the names of 6 people forward during day2 and said they are not town - you only provided analysis of a single post of philie and it was borderline fail. Your reasoning for the others was something like - "I can't tell you my logic, because nobody will understand it". In addition to that I am almost sure you were checking what times people log on and which people were online at the same time during the nights, which is not really cheating but is frowned upon. Everything you said when you were dead is irrelevant of course, even if it was 100% correct.

So what I am saying is that you were lucky and can't do it again. If you actually do it again then I will admit I am wrong. :)



Thats not how I found the mafia, it was mostly a combined effort of eliminating the innocent and who looked scummiest of who was left. I didn't want to reveal all the power roles like claw did even though everyone wanted me to without knowing what I was holding back.

I'll make another list in the next game but will not be posting it while alive.

[CaressMeTenderly]

No, you kinda just got lucky.

[chocopaw]

No, you kinda just got lucky.


qft

[Ganondorf]

No, you kinda just got lucky.



The only way you could call him "lucky" is if he put our names into random.org and found mafia based on that: everything else is logic and deduction

[McJesus]

Man I keep checking to see when the forum mafia will be done, get your asses in gear allready... and I have to agree with monster about yayap except I am under the suspicion yapyap is just a skype cheater o.O

[CaressMeTenderly]

No, you kinda just got lucky.



The only way you could call him "lucky" is if he put our names into random.org and found mafia based on that: everything else is logic and deduction


Ehrm.
So, if I don't put A, B, C, D into random.org and get an answer from that and use it to fill a multiple choice test but instead just randomly fill an answer it's not luck?

You heard it here first: Not using random.org = not luck.

[FalseTruth]

Yayap did not cheat, he is simply extremely resourceful.

Epilogue will prob be ready when Goon wakes up. i.e. indefinitely delayed.

[chocopaw]

No, you kinda just got lucky.



The only way you could call him "lucky" is if he put our names into random.org and found mafia based on that: everything else is logic and deduction


But it still can be false reasoning, and that is the point. People like him "deduce" in a terrible way from nothing but bullshit, then they say "I called it!" when the persons are indeed scum, and, what's far worse, when they are not they say "Well, you can't be right EVERY time."
It really was just dumb luck.

[McJesus]

Yayap did not cheat, he is simply extremely resourceful.

Epilogue will prob be ready when Goon wakes up. i.e. indefinitely delayed.


It was a joke...

[Raiden]

I must admit, at first i thought exactly that about yayap. I thought he knew shit, he was just lucky about philie and when she turned out mafia he just picked her defenders. However at some point he actually guessed everything, from red mafia to cult. It's either cheating or deductive skills to me, and i don't think he cheated. Maybe he will confess to have hacked into some admin account and checked all night chats, but i don't think that's the case :p

Also brain-generated random is nowhere near what happened in this game, nor gut feeling for that matter.

[FalseTruth]

Day 2 Prediction(32 players): (1 / 31)^6 = 1.12675589 × 10-9 or .000000000113

Yeah, it was pure dumb luck all right...

Here is the quote I am referring to:
[quote=Yayap;20136]
I'm not going to point out all my reasoning for suspecting the following, most of you wouldn't see it even if I explained it. Lets just say I had to connect the dots and read through the lines.
You can use the following list for future days if I die/get lynched.
Note that many of them are all trying to discredit Claw... which I find odd because I understand his reasoning.

Vote: Philie

Other suspects of being anti-town:
Darth Sand
Chocopaw
Inca_Killa
Vornskr
Monster

[CaressMeTenderly]

Day 2 Prediction(34 players): (1 / 34)^6 = 6.47331138 × 10^-10 or .000000000647

Yeah, it was pure dumb luck all right...

You're acting like that number is impossible.
It really isn't.
Also you didn't exclude him and confirmed towns and shit like that?
Obviously there's some deduction. Nobody said it was pure luck. Chocopaw hit it on the nail. It's false reasoning and "I TOLD YOU SO," basically.

[Clawtrocity]

Note that many of them are all trying to discredit Claw... which I find odd because I understand his reasoning.

Everyone had me pegged as anti-town right?...lolol

Yayap the all knowing prophet of right answers who guessed 6 bad guys on day 2 said they were trying to discredit me. That makes me think he thinks I'm pro-town. I could be wrong in that assumption since now apparently he says he thought I was anti-town.

The point stands that regardless of who's right or wrong in a situation you shouldn't always ignore alternatives. Ignorance is one of the worst things in Mafia and you may think that you're not being ignorant, but if you don't consider all the possibilities then yeah you are.

Someone said it earlier, but we're all growing in this game. Hopefully we can continue to take what we've learned and apply them to future games.

Believe it or not people are going to be meta about this game. It's how it'll always be. Embrace that fact from now on and you'll do better. Rather than try to fight it and "be aggressive" I'd rather practice it and "Be Claw-like".

First thing I thought of when Illidan guessed that we were Mafia. "He's getting MVP"...Second thought? "I hate his guts" Why wouldn't I feel that way? I fucking wanted to go to his house and punch him in the jaw, but I couldn't. So I didn't. I instead vented on the forums and fuck it was fun. I love making giant posts. I hate when people specifically try to undermine what you're doing. It's just all part of the game. the hatred, the reward, the risk, and the meta.

I'll be playing in FM5. I'll be acting the same way no matter what role I get. I'll continually assault random people. I'll have fun. Right? That's all mafia is about. Having fun. So have fun in FM4 pl0x or I'll fucking murder your entire family.

[philie]

it wasnt dumb luck, it was psychoanalysis. Obviously nobody made any claims to spin any logic of off, but many people feel uncomfortable lying. Me skipping up on names might have not been intentional, but the fact i made it is suspicious, monster was right. I might have made a mistake because i was too afraid to get caught.

[Ganondorf]

Day 2 Prediction(34 players): (1 / 34)^6 = 6.47331138 × 10^-10 or .000000000647

Yeah, it was pure dumb luck all right...

You're acting like that number is impossible.
It really isn't.
Also you didn't exclude him and confirmed towns and shit like that?
Obviously there's some deduction. Nobody said it was pure luck. Chocopaw hit it on the nail. It's false reasoning and "I TOLD YOU SO," basically.



Exactly when does reasoning become false? Reasoning is reasoning, no matter how easy it is to come up with. Yayap hit the nail right on the head: you should be praising him, not scrutinizing him...

[philie]

also math wtf, you dont pick a baddie out of 34 people every time, you get to pick from less with each subsequent baddie:P

[FalseTruth]

also math wtf, you dont pick a baddie out of 34 people every time, you get to pick from less with each subsequent baddie:P

But that's too much work...

IT'S BARELY DIFFERENT WOW.

(1 / 31) x (1 / 30) x (1 / 29) x (1 / 28) x (1 / 27) x (1 / 26) = 1.8863571 × 10-9

[Ganondorf]

Actually False that's incorrect because you have to factor in the number of scum

[Ganondorf]

It would actually be 12/31 * 11/30 * 10/29 * 9/28 * 8/27 * 7/26

[Ganondorf]

Still that makes it highly unlikely that Yayap "got lucky". By the way, that formula doesn't count the amnesiac as scum

[philie]

yes ganon is in fact right.
you have roughly 1/3 to hit a mafia at any time, minus the baddie for each pick

[philie]

hit an anti-town*

[CaressMeTenderly]

Day 2 Prediction(34 players): (1 / 34)^6 = 6.47331138 × 10^-10 or .000000000647

Yeah, it was pure dumb luck all right...

You're acting like that number is impossible.
It really isn't.
Also you didn't exclude him and confirmed towns and shit like that?
Obviously there's some deduction. Nobody said it was pure luck. Chocopaw hit it on the nail. It's false reasoning and "I TOLD YOU SO," basically.



Exactly when does reasoning become false? Reasoning is reasoning, no matter how easy it is to come up with. Yayap hit the nail right on the head: you should be praising him, not scrutinizing him...

If YapYap was the guy who was just saying "THIS GUY IS SCUM, TRUST ME", then uh, that player was incredibly anti-town and detrimental IMO. Illidan played the best game hands down, Claw's a close second.

[Ganondorf]

He never said they're confirmed scum: he only said he was suspicious of them... a completely acceptable post by a townie

[Yayap]

So you guys really want me to post my entire reasoning on my list now don't you?
Well let's go over everyone of the notes I posted and I'll give you the full version with opinions and then the significant modifications to those notes post by post. Prepare yourselves for huge walls of text.

This seems to be the only way to explain to you what was going through my mind when I posted my 6 suspects.

This is going to take some time...

[CaressMeTenderly]

He never said they're confirmed scum: he only said he was suspicious of them... a completely acceptable post by a townie

He was pushing heavily on Chocopaw of them without giving away any reasoning to town.

[Ganondorf]

This'll be interesting...

Caress, Yayap probably just wanted to lynch someone. After playing this game, I agree now that Policy Lynching is preferable to jailing, and chocopaw was a viable target...

[Ganondorf]

Had we lynched chocopaw, NorthStar would've survived the night in addition to the Napoli being down a man

[philie]

darth sand was a perfect day 1 lynch
would have crippled the red mafia a lot and saved northstar
next day when ascended told about his find it was too late and they lynched me. They could have lynched me anyway plus sand if he didnt hold the info back for no apparent reason. Sitting on it really isnt beneficial with such high kpn and so many anti town factions

[Ganondorf]

Kudos to whichever scum branded the Day 2 Philie lynch as a bandwagon: in the long run, it lost the town the game

[Ganondorf]

It's quite sad though: the second the word bandwagon comes up, people immediately condemn anyone who joins even if the lynch has merit

[philie]

lolol all the bandwagoneers were 50% scum so i suppose they either thought i was town, were scared of me, or just wanted to gain credit by being the ones to purge the evil etc etc.
i couldnt even tip the balance over to sand even thought there was hard evidence against her. Claw was the towns N1 hero and red mafia+monster were really pushing on the most confused ones of the town xD

[Ganondorf]

Yeah town was pretty much in complete disarray :(

[Clawtrocity]

Goon was on earlier...Wtf is going on with this shit.

GOD DAMNIT FALSESWARM L2 END A GAME =(

[Clawtrocity]

I demand this Mafia game be terminated.

The order of operations is:
-1. Jailing
0. Talking
1. Amnesiac chooses role
2. Blocking
3. Witch Control
4. Cardinal Recruiting
5. Illuminati Recruiting
6. Protecting/Giving/Framing
7. Serial Killer Killing/Sicilian Mafia Killing/Napoli Mafia Killing
8. Gun Item Killing
9. Healing
10. SK auto-vest(If he has one and hasn't been healed already.)
11. Cleaning
12. Detecting
13. Coroner Examination


Amnesiac died the night he picked a role.

He picked Red Kingdom King.

He'd of been immune to the attack and we'd have another vote.

[philie]

no claw, he didnt pick it really. He really wanted to but thought he would be safe

[Clawtrocity]

I demand it. It must happen. Byaaah