Spy Revamped

[Zack]

Spy as he is now is hardly effective, and most of the time simply misleads the town after he was purposely misled by the mafia. He's worse than a Jester if he believes everything he overhears, heh.

Spy's role should be like this:
Plants bugs on people each night.
Optionals: Plant 2 or 3 bugs on the first night.
Can hear any bugged person's coversations, all of them. At night and even PMs if they are enabled.
At night he can choose to follow a bugged person instead of planting a new bug, when he follows a person - if the target used an action on someone else that night - the spy will know who the target visited, but not which action was performed.
The spy plants bugs on role-blockers (instead of the intended target) - and will know who the role-blocker is the next night (will appear as bugged and can be followed).

[Supersun]

You are playing spy wrong then. Spy isn't supposed to magically overhear the mafia accidentally mention each other. Spys are supposed to analyze their typing style and punish them for not changing the way they type at night and day.

Really, spys are only worthless when NO ONE talks during night at all.

Though if there was one small change maybe the spy can see who the mafia is selecting to perform their abilities on each night. I mean it must be hard for a Godfather to order a hit without saying a word.

[Zack]

Just FYI, I never had the Spy role myself. This suggestion comes from seeing how spies "help" the town in the games I played, from both Town and Mafia sides. As Mafia I could kiss the spy for being so dumb, but as Town...

[Membrax]

Really, spys are only worthless when NO ONE talks during night at all.


In almost all games I played where there is a known spy, mafia either don't talk or mislead him (well, you could argue that an expected mislead gives clues in itself ;)).
However, I had that one funny game, where spy revealed that mafia talked in spanish, and all spanish-looking names and spanish-speaking guys were immediately lynched without mercy :D
Honestly, spy works best when it's from random role, he should never be directly announced.



Though if there was one small change maybe the spy can see who the mafia is selecting to perform their abilities on each night. I mean it must be hard for a Godfather to order a hit without saying a word.


That makes sense, could be a nice perk.

[Deolrin]

I'm all for the idea of Spy being able to see which target does the Mafia pick, but only if it's exclusive for the kill target(Godfather\Mafioso votes\orders), and not for the role-block\investigate\etc targets, as that would be rather overpowered.

[Supersun]

Well I was thinking you ONLY saw the targets with no context of what action was actually being performed.

Though only seeing the kill target could work too.

[Afumba]

If Spy is choosen it is worthless if u play with good players. Mafia wont talk at all.
In the beginning Mafias tried to misslead but even this missleads stoped alot as it is still a risk.

Last 5-6 games i was a Spy only i party talked... actually really talking about their real roles lol^^

Maybe Spy should get an ability like this combined with beeing able to read the chat:
-Can bug someones house in one night & in the following night he will see this pesons action. But not what he does direactly onyl on whom he does it. The bug is destroyed afterwards and he has to rebug someone.

This would mean... 1 night buging... second night getting results, third night buggin 4th night results and so on...

Just a suggestion... ^^

[Dark.Revenant]

That would essentially make the spy an overpowered sheriff.

In any case, I'll let the spy know who the mafia decide who to kill in the end. (Their final target, regardless of whether or not he dies.)

But the spy, simply by existing, is a serious disadvantage for the Mafia. Instead of being able to discuss strategy, all of them are essentially estranged from each other for fear of giving out information. Only a fool would leak information to a Spy, but even the worst of spies will put a LOT of pressure on the Mafia. They're powerful simply by being there; they might not be able to directly hurt the Mafia but they definitely hold a gun to their heads at all times. It's a HUGE breath of relief for the Mafia when you kill a Spy.

[squall55]

However, I had that one funny game, where spy revealed that mafia talked in spanish, and all spanish-looking names and spanish-speaking guys were immediately lynched without mercy :D



I remember that game.. Sadly, after I pointed out that they only talked spanish (in my will because I died 2nd night) the town killed the spanish speaking doc first ^^ but it was kind of fun ^^

[Searix]

I agree DR, what are you going to do about it? As it is any time spy is in game, mafia just dont talk in chat the entire time (like other people have said in this thread, and personally last 3/3 i was spy mafia either didnt talk, or someone said "dont talk there's a spy" and wouldnt talk the rest of the game.

[Zack]

The fundumental problem with the Spy role is that once you know there is a Spy he becomes obsolete. And you can't not know that there is a spy if host added him to the role list. A semi-effective Spy is one who came from Random Town, without any set Spy role added. And even then, the mafia will be cautious until they know there was no spy.

My idea could work you know. Maybe the "follow people at night" is exaggerated. If you remove that ability, and leave only the bug planting it could be fine. But, I guess we have to be fair, so make it so that the night after the night the bug was planted the target with the bug will be informed that he has been marked by the spy, from that moment on that guy will be afraid to talk if he's a mafia. Others could go for the humour side and say "Oooo hi Spy!" and start cracking jokes at him through the bug. I think its a fun idea.

[Dark.Revenant]

Unfortunately that makes the Spy virtually useless. I think my compromise works the best.

[Clawtrocity]

I don't know about you guys, but I feel if my random towns had ever been a spy it would of let me off the hook so many times as mafia. The spy can be manipulated and tricked moreso than any other role.

I kept getting roleblocked as godfather so in chat at night I said "I wonder if an escort will ever speak up and say who they are role blocking and get them killed since I'm not even killing anyone!" The next day an escort accused me of being a killer and a spy spoke up and said "The mafia isn't killing anyone because they want us to kill an innocent person being role blocked" Although with this change the spy would be able to tell that I was lying and that I was actually aiming to kill someone so they'll know.

[Afumba]

Well one nice think the Spy has imo...
The Mafia has someone to make fun of at nights... :D When i am Mafia... i talk only to the spy in Mafia chat... bit of mocking and bit of joking... lol :D

Unfortunately this happened to me too when i was a Spy... and on the Spy side it is not as funny as on the Mafia side... lol^^

[Supersun]

I remember one time when I was mafia and there was a stupid spy that believed what we said at night and got a random town lynched. During the next night I thanked the spy for lynching the town and he immediately left XD.
(It's also fun impersonating how other people type)