Day 2

[Forum Mafia GM]

Start guessing now!

[FM The Terminator]

This is the earliest I've been killed yet. Yay?
Honestly, I have no idea who's who.
I'd say the last few voters of day 1 are scum. Cluseau and Agahnim seem townish, but something about them just feels off.

Are there deadlynches?

[Forum Mafia GM]

I'll give COM names for dead lynches.. not roles. =)

[Forum Mafia GM]

Btw, I was surprised how well you played d1, I usually take note of the good players and you were off my radar till now. Even though I haven't seen you play much, usually new players to fms don't do as well as you did.

[FM The Terminator]

Thanks. This isn't my first FM, though. I won (and got Well Played award) as Jester in FMXV, won as witch in SFM Borderlands, was the culted sheriff in Blazer's Experiment, and lost as blackmailer in Fragos' Nasty Rumors. I have a general idea as to how to play, but all the intricacies of WIFOM and gambits kinda escape me. I did just realize that on my two nights as sheriff in Blazer's Experiment, I found the witch and the arsonist. So there's that, but I'm always looking for room to improve.

hmm... -deadlynch Cluseau
Could you also tell me if I was right about Jack being CmG?

[FM The Terminator]

I just reread that and realized that it sounded pretty arrogant. Sorry XD I'm balancing between this and studying for exams. (This is a lot more fun)

[Forum Mafia GM]

I remember you did really well as jester in fm15... even though the mafia which I was a part of knew you were jester, town didn't.

I hope to play with you again sometime, I'm looking for people to replace the old FM Veterans that I use to play with, the ones we could speak in code to in front of everyone and understand each other.

[FM The Terminator]

Wait-were you Vader when he set the bounty on me? If so, thanks for ensuring the win. I did try to help mafia by killing confirmed town, but I felt bad about completely breaking the town so I switched to the one guy who fought against my lynch XD
I'm looking forward to playing with you as well. From what I gather from lurking on the forums, you're the best player still on the site. Hopefully next game I won't die so soon... :)

[Forum Mafia GM]

I was Sidius. I replaced someone midgame.


-Vote FM Inspector Cluseau for MVP
I thought that was a dead give away who Cluseau was. :)

[FM The Terminator]

I was Sidius. I replaced someone midgame.


I thought that was a dead give away who Cluseau was. :)

lol I didn't even see that
Or maybe I did and thought it was WIFOM

[FM The Terminator]

Well, I caught the gooby pls
close enough

[Forum Mafia GM]

From what I gather from lurking on the forums, you're the best player still on the site. Hopefully next game I won't die so soon... :)

My status went legendary in FM3 where I accurately named 6 scum (4 orange mafia, 1 red mafia, and the cult leader) on the first game day. Then from the graveyard accurately named all 3 cult members as well as saying cult leader was jailed n1 (which was not known publicly)

Then in FM 5 (fm4 got cancelled) I was a student and choose to join the Cult Leader (I found him before anyone).

[FM The Terminator]

Yeah, I'd call that pretty impressive...

-bow

[FM The Terminator]

o.0 both sheriffs out day 2
if he is sheriff

[Forum Mafia GM]

I would like to point out for your entertainment some night actions last night:

Sheriff 1: visited Gandalf
Witch: Made Sheriff 1 visit Gandalf LMAO
Sheriff 2: visited Gandalf

Framer visited Gandalf: LMAO

[FM The Terminator]

Gandalf is certainly popular. I bet that framer's laughing his ass off right now.

[FM The Terminator]

While we're on the topic of night actions, what the hell happened to both roleblocks night 1? Did I just completely miss the claims like an idiot or was no one roleblocked? Or was the serial killer roleblocked?

[Forum Mafia GM]

This forum has become too reliant on PRs, 2 days and both sheriffs reveal... oh well, wonder how this town will fare without any sheriffs.

[Forum Mafia GM]

While we're on the topic of night actions, what the hell happened to both roleblocks night 1? Did I just completely miss the claims like an idiot or was no one roleblocked? Or was the serial killer roleblocked?

SK got roleblocked by consort. Other roleblock was on a cit and he didnt claim.

[FM The Terminator]

Wonder why the cit didn't claim.

I think the reason that Mafiascum players scumhunt so well (I believe I saw somebody say that this setup was inspired by Mafiascum) is that the setups are completely hidden. I've been keeping up with a single game (A Dance with Dragons) for the past few months, and it's pretty astonishing seeing the difference in playstyle. It seems to me (take this with a grain of salt, I'm a complete newb in comparison to you or them) that PRs are afraid to claim because they don't even know if there is a protective role. In that game, somebody was almost lynched Day 1 for implying that there was more than one scumteam. The roles were not very standard or meta-inspired. One team had a strongarm mafioso, a GF with a 1-shot vest, a mafioso, and a recruitable traitor, while the other was split into two, with one half having a Jack of All Trades and a mafioso, and the other having a mafioso that knew a confirmed town (said town was kill-immune until day 4) and a role that stopped ALL actions on the targeted player (That game's also where I got the idea to ask to be a paranoid daycop, just becuase.) Both of these sheriffs are trusting doctors to heal them, so they probably wouldn't claim if they didn't know there were doctors present. Hell, even in some games here there isn't a confirmed doctor or bodyguard on the roles list but people can still claim, assuming that there will be a protective role to back them up. I feel like it'll take a complete unexpected flip in meta, with roles that aren't announced before the game begins, to get the town less reliant on PRs. Does any of that make sense? I feel exhausted and I can tell that I'm rambling. I need to go to bed...

[Forum Mafia GM]

I've seen a few hidden setups on this site, although the hosts have always tried to balance them out and almost always have some kind of protection role. For the most complex setup on the site, you should look up my last FM that I hosted, FM-X where the roles had levels and voting changed each day... even had a blackout day sorta like the lightkeeper dying. Youtube Newspaper each day with deadchat giving a few lines that no one knew was from dead chat. Items being stolen by thieves, even had a role that would get sound files and had to determine what he was hearing... And then there was the Blackmailer (an extremly complex role) that wasn't even suppose to be in the game (I couldn't balance the role right, but I decided to throw him in midgame after a few modkills)

Be warned, it has 2x more posts in it than any other fm on the site. It will take you hours to read.
There is however a nice subforum with all the GM archieves (this game has it too, it will be revealed at the end)

[FM The Terminator]

I've actually already read FMX. And I, VI, VII, XIII, and XIV. They're all pretty fun to read. X especially was a really interesting game with all the new mechanics. I'm curious about a few things regarding that game though:
Did the no-COM rule come into play because of how the town ended up finding the arsonist?
Isn't Muso the guy who set up the rival site?
What exactly happened in the day that had the roll back? I gathered that Luna claimed ML, that somebody used his own fake doctor claim to lynch a mafia member, and that Kevinpowers somehow gamethrew. Did I miss anything?
(If you aren't allowed to talk about the last two, that's fine.)

[FM The Terminator]

Not a very active day...

[FM The Terminator]

I was not obsessed with color, CmG. That was one post, which I formatted with color to get my point across.

[Forum Mafia GM]

hehehe... I finally just caught up in day chat.. I infracted 2 people for posting sinks. lol

[FM The Terminator]

XD I mean you did ask them politely not to

[FM The Terminator]

I believe somebody in day pointed out how Watson changed his mind rather quickly regarding the hypo plan, from neutrality to being very against it and trying to twist the concept of how it would work. They missed that Mr. T posted his opposition to it between Watson's changes of mind. Mr. T for Godfather. Or at least, a mafia member who stepped up as leader.

[FM The Terminator]

"I feel this plan is pretty stupid.. everyone should just claim what happened to them. Nothing happened to me."
Pretty stupid is underlined. Code?

[FM The Terminator]

What is Gandalf doing? I know he's town because you've told me the night actions, but his play does seem like he's trying to avoid actually claiming or posting his reads.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Gandalf is a FM Vet who knows how to scum hunt. He is analysing the day chats. He is like me, we take our time and usually get it right the first time. It's only because he is under pressure that it seems like it is taking forever.

[FM The Terminator]

Ah, okay. I guess I'm getting impatient.

[FM The Terminator]

I feel like Cluseau may be the framer who's getting overeager to lynch Gandalf because of his luck.

Jack seems townish.

I'm not sure what's up with Batman. Either he's not paying much attention or he's defending Gandalf because he knows he was framed and is looking for some town cred.

Same with Coyote.

Does everyone have the same night chat? Am I the only player here, or just the only one who stayed for a game that he died night 2 in?

[Forum Mafia GM]

Yehat replaced someone, consort didn't bother staying around and the other guy hasn't been posting here (but I am talking to him on skype - he has been reading this)

[Forum Mafia GM]

... is this town really afraid of mafia night chat if he is consig BS?

mafia know who consig targeted.. all a consig would have to say is the result in plain view if he knew he was going to die, only the mafia would get the info since only the mafia know who he checked.

[FM The Terminator]

Well, it looks like a doctor's gonna die. I suppose that makes up for town's luck night 1. Cluseau, Mr. T, Pinkie Pie, and Batman for scum. Maybe Jack.

From reading some previous games, and what he said about knowing CmG well, I'm guessing that Frog is Clementine? He (she?) was Leia in FMXIII iirc and he (she?) made a plan that was similarly well thought out and intelligent. Also, I seem to remember seeing a game in which Clem and CmG played together using a smurf. Or I'm seeing things that aren't there. One of the two.

[Forum Mafia GM]

I guess you'll have to wait till tomorrow to deadlynch.

I can't believe how sheepish this town is. They have no clue how to wifom. Odds of Gandalf being framed last night were 1/2. They aren't even analyzing his posts for the info he gave them. And yes, I can confirm that it takes as long as he did to re-read all of day 1 and day 2 before posting his notes.

[FM The Terminator]

It looks to me like people like Cluseau have taken the lead and are spurring others on while either not caring to read or being scum themselves. Meanwhile Jack is making himself look scummier and scummier by defending Gandalf and being belligerent. I feel like Gandalf would get better luck being angry and loud about his scumreads the way most of the rest of the town are doing. His defense does almost seem like he's scum pretending to not care about the lynch so he doesn't get lynched. He's definitely putting the effort in, don't get me wrong, but his... tone? is not really helping his defense. Maybe the reason everyone seems so sheepy to us is just because we know for a fact that he is town. Or maybe that's just for me, as I'm much less experienced with this kind of stuff.

Either way, the mafia is being really active right now and doing pretty well for it.

[FM The Terminator]

Okay, now I'm confused.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Confused about what?

[FM The Terminator]

-Why he claimed doctor as citizen when he knew he was going to be lynched. I can understand doing so to draw scum's nightkill, but why would he do it knowing he wouldn't survive the night?
-All my reads are bad in general. This game has a different level of play (and a lot more people) than other games I've played.
-I'm in the middle of exam week, and I'm exhausted which means I'm probably not reading and understanding the day clearly.
-I'm bad at WIFOM.

[FM Gandalf]

*sigh* Very bad play on my part.

[Forum Mafia GM]

claiming doc can have multiple effects

1- would mafia trust that vig would kill him?
2- would witch possibly use him to get free heals?
3- would vig think that jailor has him?
4- would jailor think that the vig would take care of him?
5- would town let him live longer? So he can find more scum.

[Forum Mafia GM]

The odds were not in your favor... town tunnel visioned you once sheriff claimed and would not listen to any reason nor looked for any other scum.

[FM Gandalf]

I made too big a deal of my notes, when I knew I had nothing gamechanging to say. I still stand by my reads & logic, but it's only day 2 and I can't pull a Yayap. I just really didn't want to make accusations without having all of my details in order.

[FM The Terminator]

You played very well, Gandalf. The town was very very sheepy today.

[FM The Terminator]

I agree that Pinkie Pie is probably scum.

[Forum Mafia GM]

What are the odds of:

-Night 1 missing a kill? (and not because of afks)
-Framer picking the sheriffs target?

yet how many fms have both of the above happened?

[FM The Terminator]

I would like to point out for your entertainment some night actions last night:

Sheriff 1: visited Gandalf
Witch: Made Sheriff 1 visit Gandalf LMAO
Sheriff 2: visited Gandalf

Framer visited Gandalf: LMAO

Also this happened.

[Forum Mafia GM]

I'll leave it up to you if you want your real COM name given in the epilogue or not or if you want to remain as The Nightbringer.

[FM Gandalf]

Nah I'm fine with coming out as vornskr in the epilogue; I just didn't want it to affect the meta while I was playing. (Looking at the roles list, though, it's not like many people would have even remembered my play style.)

[FM The Terminator]

-bow

[FM Gandalf]

Nah, not at all.

Terminator, who are you? (I.e. what's your CoM name?) Your play on day 1 was quite good, whatever I might have said about it in the day chat. Yayap summed up my reasons for claiming doc earlier on this page. I spent some of day 1 and most of day 2 setting up a doc claim, really so that I could use it several days down the line & take a bullet for the team. But when I was forced to claim, it seemed most reasonable to go with what I'd been setting up (though apparently nobody had read my posts in that light). I was hoping that it wouldn't end up drawing out the real docs, but I'm afraid that Col Jack O'Neill is a doc & that's why he was so sure I'm not one. If the mafia thinks that way too, he may end up having a very short game...

As for other power roles, my best guess for vigi right now is Hungry. Jailor I thought might have been Jack, till he went so strongly pro-jailor d2 (Ceasar might be my next best guess). I'd bet that King Arthur is blacksmith, and failing that I still think he's town. Cookie Monster, originally I thought might be escort, but his play has been really scummy. Agahnim shouldn't be doctor, though he might be town.

@Yayap, yeah, I think most games I've played in have been missing a death n1. Bizarre.

[FM Gandalf]

By the way, I love my death video. Thanks for that. XD

[FM The Terminator]

I'm Nazzhoul. I'm pretty new around her, just learning the ropes of FMs like this. I'm definitely nowhere near the level of you or Yayap. I'm surprised no one saw that you were hinting at doctor. You outright said that you were either doctor or citizen, and people still said you weren't hinting anything except doctor.

Also, Yayap: Is there anything special to setting up night chats? My first S-FM got approved and I'm not entirely sure how to do it.

[FM The Terminator]

I'm Nazzhoul. I'm pretty new around here, just learning the ropes of FMs like this. I'm definitely nowhere near the level of you or Yayap. I'm surprised no one saw that you were hinting at doctor. You outright said that you were either doctor or citizen, and people still said you weren't hinting anything except doctor.

Also, Yayap: Is there anything special to setting up night chats? My first S-FM got approved and I'm not entirely sure how to do it.

fixed

[Forum Mafia GM]

Also, Yayap: Is there anything special to setting up night chats? My first S-FM got approved and I'm not entirely sure how to do it.

Big FM is different than SFMs and MFM in that regard, night chats are not on this site because it requires admin powers to manage.

You should read this before hosting your game so that you know what to do:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/4618-Hosting-Tips-amp-Tricks

[Forum Mafia GM]

I just saw a few night actions coming in...

http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/flip-table-300x271.png

Both sheriffs are getting guilty results.... again (1 sheriff is witched)
I WANT TOWN TO SCUM HUNT!!! not follow PR!

[FM Gandalf]

Both sheriffs are getting guilty results.... again (1 sheriff is witched)
I WANT TOWN TO SCUM HUNT!!! not follow PR!

Maybe a closed setup would help?

Any idea how much longer night's going to last?

[FM The Terminator]

Big FM is different than SFMs and MFM in that regard, night chats are not on this site because it requires admin powers to manage.

You should read this before hosting your game so that you know what to do:
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/4618-Hosting-Tips-amp-Tricks

Thanks.

[FM Gandalf]

I'm Nazzhoul. I'm pretty new around her, just learning the ropes of FMs like this.

Well, pleased to meet you, and I hope someday we'll be on the same team again & live long enough to do something with it.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Mafia wanted to take their time this night, don't expect day for another 23hrs minimum.

I thought that having only 2 investigative roles would make them wait a few days before revealing, especially with a witch and consort to shut them down... but I overestimated this towns intelligence.

[FM The Terminator]

I just saw a few night actions coming in...

http://cuddlebuggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/flip-table-300x271.png

Both sheriffs are getting guilty results.... again (1 sheriff is witched)
I WANT TOWN TO SCUM HUNT!!! not follow PR!

Gandalf's flip put suspicion on Jones, so it's possible that town won't listen to him. The found player is likely to claim framed since it turned out that Gandalf was framed.

[FM Gandalf]

Aw, shit, I forgot to post all my reasons for believing that Jones is in fact sheriff. I hope they don't stop trusting him, because I think he's got a bit more sense than Yosemite Sam.

[Forum Mafia GM]

Yosemite Sam = posts his night results and what he thinks before reading day chat... Logs on and instantly posts.

[FM Gandalf]

Mafia wanted to take their time this night, don't expect day for another 23hrs minimum.

Ok, thanks for the update.


I thought that having only 2 investigative roles would make them wait a few days before revealing, especially with a witch and consort to shut them down... but I overestimated this towns intelligence.

Well, maybe tonight'll be the last night they do anything useful, the town will lose, and players will be more wary in the future. If only.

[FM Gandalf]

Yosemite Sam = posts his night results and what he thinks before reading day chat... Logs on and instantly posts.

Fantastic. 100% A+ quality play right there.

[FM The Terminator]

The serial killer seems competent so far. Let's hope for the good of the game that he ends up succeeding.
Of course, I still hope town wins, but this just seems like blind luck...

[FM Gandalf]

So I have lots of time to kill, and limbo is pretty boring with just the two of us.

Who do you think the SK might be? And any thoughts as to the doctors or the escorts?

[FM Gandalf]

What is Gandalf doing? I know he's town because you've told me the night actions, but his play does seem like he's trying to avoid actually claiming or posting his reads.

It really was taking me that long to get all my notes in order: I didn't want to accuse someone without having considered all the evidence. I'm not sure that the extra time/detail helped make me more right, but at least I suggested new things for the town to think about. It's not healthy for the town if an entire day is taken up by one obsessive focus on just a handful of players in the hotseat. (Day 2 of this game is one of the worst I've seen, in that regard. I really didn't help that, by drawing so much attention to myself, which is why I feel like my play this game was particularly bad.)

I honestly don't understand why people thought it was scummy that I waited so long to claim, though. This isn't sc2mafia: there, it can tell you something if a person delays 15 seconds while on trial before claiming--they really might be panicking & coming up with a role last minute. But in forum mafia, especially if you're dealing with someone who seems to be a competent player, you can assume that they've had a claim prepared for hours (if not days) before the claim is necessary. I was prepared to claim doc since before I even got my rolecard (since I figured I'd be getting cit). So why was I delaying? Because that's what a real doc would do, I think. At least, that's what I would do if I were actually doc (and I have been, in FM V, though there I had to claim because of the "Soul of the Beast" mechanic). I don't know... clearly I played it wrong, I think partially because the meta seems to have changed on this site & people don't expect roles to behave the way I think they should anymore.

I'll admit that I'm in the bad habit of never being straightforward about my role: in FM II and V I was protective town PR's and so I relied on lies & gambits to keep myself alive. FM III I tried to WIFOM the same sort of behavior to try to look like a citizen & it blew up in my face; FM VI was... well, FM VI. Maybe I should have just claimed citizen outright, but I really don't think it would have helped: when people thought I was claiming citizen it still looked like I was going to get lynched. So I figured going ahead with the doc reveal might prevent the town from wasting a kill on me & set me up to take a mafia bullet down the line. That failed, and there should have been no harm done, but I'm afraid the real docs were careless and outed themselves unnecessarily.


I feel like Gandalf would get better luck being angry and loud about his scumreads the way most of the rest of the town are doing.

Yeah, probably.



His defense does almost seem like he's scum pretending to not care about the lynch so he doesn't get lynched. He's definitely putting the effort in, don't get me wrong, but his... tone? is not really helping his defense.

Well, like I've tried to say many times, tone is a terrible way to judge alignment in FM. It's a great way to manipulate inexperienced players, so honestly I should have worked harder to control my own annoyance & use a tone that would persuade people more. But I also kind of wanted to prove a point, so that maybe the town will learn to pay attention to better things once they see where they went wrong with me. (We'll see how that goes.) Honestly, if someone has an abrasive tone, that usually means that they're town-aligned and aren't worried about escaping suspicion: scum has a lot more incentive to control what they say & offend no one.

[FM The Terminator]

SK is probably a lurker.

I doubt that anyone who claimed doctor is actually doctor. The real ones are lurking or trolling. It's possible that Master Chef is doctor trying to look scummy to avoid nightkills.

As for escort, the only guess I have is Jack Sparrow. I know (because Yayap told me) that the escort blocked a citizen who didn't claim. I assume that a player as experienced as CmG would get really angry at town for not claiming. It's a stretch, but other than him, I don't have much of a guess.

[FM The Terminator]

I just started rereading day 1 and realized that Robin Hood is probably SK. He was rather active day 1 and I don't think he posted at all day 2. Furthermore, look at his second post day 1:
"Or the killer didn't submit a night action, and the GM forgot to modkill him."
Trying to make everyone disregard that SK was roleblocked and or hit a mafia and convincing everyone that he simply missed night 1.
Then I suggest that Animal is the SK because he claimed to have missed night 1, and I was killed that night.
FM Robin Hood

[FM Gandalf]

I just started rereading day 1 and realized that Robin Hood is probably SK. He was rather active day 1 and I don't think he posted at all day 2. Furthermore, look at his second post day 1:
"Or the killer didn't submit a night action, and the GM forgot to modkill him."
Trying to make everyone disregard that SK was roleblocked and or hit a mafia and convincing everyone that he simply missed night 1.
Then I suggest that Animal is the SK because he claimed to have missed night 1, and I was killed that night.
FM Robin Hood

Possibly, but it doesn't explain his erratic "I'm vigi and I'm gonna shoot Cluseau tonight" claim. He's also far from the only person to suggest the missing kill was because the SK was afk n1: actually, a lot of people suggested it independently, which I found rather odd. (Might be a way to track down mafia members?)

[FM Gandalf]

actually, a lot of people suggested it independently, which I found rather odd.

Captain Obvious, Cookie Monster (about vigi, not sk), King Arthur, Pinkie Pie, and Robin Hood.

I actually think there should have been more than that. Did I get lazy and stop marking them down?

[FM The Terminator]

It's possible that most of those are mafia. I believe Cookie Monster to be Citizen and King Arthur to be blacksmith, but Captain Obvious has been flying under the radar and we both suspect Pinkie Pie. However, Robin was the first to suggest that iirc and all other such suggestions would have been after him: either misled town or scum who've caught on. Pinkie Pie may even be the consort herself, knowing that she blocked the serial killer and proud to have done it--a kind of Freudian slip that hasn't been caught.