Day 1: First Blood

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I agree with last will claims.

N1: No feedback. Night actions to be announced later.

FM Jack Sparrow is not the only one giving "hidden codes". There are also a few people that gives "redundant information".


Why do you try to play mafiascum setups with the troll sc2mafia community?

FM Jack Sparrow

Voted for inciting confusion and disorder.

And why do we need 41 votes to lynch? Is today a no lynch day?

[FM Master Chef]

I did not typo your name. You typoed your avatar:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9w6xhTnmD1r4jd0bo1_250.jpg

lame. i mustve gotten the worse name out of everyone

[FM Indiana Jones]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bTpp8PQSog

Don't worry! Indiana Jones to the rescue!

Nothing happened to me. Kinda sucks that we can't have Last Wills. This Hypo thing is a great idea. +1

The votes are at 41 because not everyone has posted yet.

FM Jack Sparrow
This man is probably scum, doesn't even try to add to the discussion.


BRB getting avatar.

[FM Wolverine]

I agree with last will claims.

N1: No feedback. Night actions to be announced later.

FM Jack Sparrow is not the only one giving "hidden codes". There are also a few people that gives "redundant information".



FM Jack Sparrow

Voted for inciting confusion and disorder.

And why do we need 41 votes to lynch? Is today a no lynch day?

To force everyone to talk in chat/ find out who's afk. I believe if everyone posts, the required number of votes will be reduces.

[FM Wolverine]

reduced

[FM Count von Count]

ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN, ELEVEN, TWELVE, THIRTEEN, FOURTEEN, FIFTEEN, SIXTEEN, SEVENTEEN, EIGHTEEN, NINETEEN, TWENTY, TWENTY-ONE, TWENTY-TWO, TWENTY-THREE, TWENTY-FOUR, TWENTY-FIVE, TWENTY-SIX CITIZENS, TWENTY-SIX CITIZENS HA HA HA.

[FM The Terminator]

The Hypo Plan

Step One:
Everyone claims what happened to them at night. If you are town, DO NOT LIE!

Step 2:
Once ALL possible feedback claims have been recieved, we hypothetically claim what we did last night.


I was sheriff and checked The Terminator. He was innocent.
I was doctor and healed The Terminator. He was attacked!
I was vigilante and attacked The Terminator.
I was escort and blocked The Terminator.
I was blacksmith and gave The Terminator a gun.
I was jailor and jailed The Terminator.
I was bodyguard and protected The Terminator.
I was lookout and watched The Terminator. He was not visited.
I was citizen and didn't do anything.
Note: If you are not a role that gives feedback, claim your night actions within the parameter of results claims. e.g. if I claim roleblocked, say you are the escort who roleblocked me, even if you aren't. Also, keep your claims within the realm of what you would do if you were that role.

Step the third:
After or during step 2, claim a hypothetical action for the following night.


I am sheriff and will check The Terminator.
I am doctor and will heal The Terminator.
I am vigilante and will attack The Terminator.
I am escort and will block the Terminator.
I am blacksmith and will give The Terminator a gun.
I am jailor and will jail The Terminator.
I am bodyguard and will protect The Terminator.
I am lookout and will watch The Terminator.
I am citizen and can't do anything tonight.
In addition, if you see ANY claim that is not seconded, second it yourself. That way, if someone like an escort blocks a member of the mafia, there is a citizen claimed to block the mafia as well as the escort, and the escort may be protected.

[FM Wolverine]

ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN, ELEVEN, TWELVE, THIRTEEN, FOURTEEN, FIFTEEN, SIXTEEN, SEVENTEEN, EIGHTEEN, NINETEEN, TWENTY, TWENTY-ONE, TWENTY-TWO, TWENTY-THREE, TWENTY-FOUR, TWENTY-FIVE, TWENTY-SIX CITIZENS, TWENTY-SIX CITIZENS HA HA HA.

something about tearing you to shreds

[Forum Mafia GM]

Did no one read rule #2? STOP PMing me about it.

[FM The Terminator]

(If I haven't said it yet, nothing happened to me last night.)

[FM Agahnim]

Rubber Ducky:


inb4 Inspector Clauseau dies tomorrow


This guy knows everything even my secret
My secret is that i am a duck


Damn, how did you know?


I see, Then you must know everything about everyone.


Hello, I'm a duck.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIMoQHpvFQQ&list=PLEFFD0AFDDF3F2C43&index=11

Dumbledore kicked your ass

As you can see this player supplements the trollish actions on this day while intentionally trying to push distractions into the town day chat.
After a couple of a big very useful posts from certain members this player becomes silent and either leaves or lurks. When I reveal my lead on Jack Sparrow he does not say, acknowledge, or even open up at all about it.
As I call this player scum time and again there is no response and instead he focus's on talking to the other two main talkers of this day.

Not nearly as scummy as Jack Sparrow, but still a heavy target nonetheless.

[FM Indiana Jones]

RULE NUMBER 2 guys.



Ok, the only think that I could possibly mention is that the sheriff gets his results in town/mafia/Evil neutral

Do we want to use that instead on the sheriff hypo?

[FM Ceasar]

Already 260 posts after just over 2 hours? There's going to be a ton of reading this game...

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Whatever guys. Do what you have to do. Keep pulling scum tells out of your butt. I wont be mad. I know this setup is too complicated for this community. It's ok. Just keep on fake claiming night actions at day. So the real scum can easily find the real town power roles to shoot them down at night.

"Tunneling", or concentrating excessively on a single player out of proportion to what would be necessary. That's exactly what Matt Damon does here and you all just hop on such a weak train because you are all just citizens and can't do shit at night. :D

It's pathetic.

Here i have a useful link for you guys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 scroll down to the town section and read carefully. It might help you out in the long run!


Also here the explanation of my code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_gdburNck


Ever seen any game, where somebody used codes as a full sentence? Are you guys really that stupid? Usually codes are limited to "letters" in the 1. 2. sentence, word.

I don't even...

[FM Count von Count]

Reading is for idiots, we should just count to 41 votes to lynch

[FM The Terminator]

Necessary Claims:
(If we’re missing a kill) Attacked and Healed
TWO roleblocked claims
Blacksmith item
Jailed claim
I have not yet seen any of these claims. If one of these has happened to you, speak up. Once ALL of these claims are received, we can continue with the hypo claims.

[FM The Terminator]

RULE NUMBER 2 guys.



Ok, the only think that I could possibly mention is that the sheriff gets his results in town/mafia/Evil neutral

Do we want to use that instead on the sheriff hypo?

You say instead. What is your impression that we would do with the sheriff hypo?

[FM Agahnim]

Yoda:

Sparrow would know?


Youngling.


FM Jack Sparrow


In the end, cowards are those who follow the dark side.


Dark spawn.


Corruption, you are part of.


Dark spawn.


Darkside strong is.
Become hard immersion has, this synthetic notices.


Four killers there is.


Righteous knights order? Doubting I am.


Atlantis should be.


Obvious, Yes. Usefull you are not.


Lack the sword I do.


Mourning over citizen I am.


As you can see above he posts useless RP and filler. He does not try and contribute ideas/discussions. Nor does he try and scum-hunt to make up for his lack of contribution. He does not try, in anyway, to do anything more than blend in with the town day chat.

Not as scummy as Jack Sparrow or Rubber Ducky.
But still a target nonetheless.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

There won't be jailed claims. We don't have Day 0 remember?

[FM Locutus]

Too many spam posts.


For the hypo plan, are we including lookout/bodyguard even though there isn't one?

[FM Agahnim]

Wile E. Coyote:


Did I really just write perky instead of pesky?
....

ANYWAY.


Where the hell is that perky Road Runner?

I've got some Acme Dynamite cookies for him.


I can already tell that this game is going to be one massive clusterfuck.
Hurray! \o/

This player makes three total posts even with heavy and active discussion being made and a good scum read discussion posted. His posts have an admittance to lurking and nowhere does this player make any type of effort to becomes of any worth to the town. Instead he lurks and reads without saying a thing.

Not as scummy as Jack, Rubber Ducky, and Yoda.

But a target nonetheless.

[Inspector Cluseau]

OOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOOO! AGAHNIM! DO ME!

[FM Jack Sparrow]

OOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOOO! AGAHNIM! DO ME!

What for? He fails hard.

[FM Agahnim]

OOOO OOOOO OOOOOO OOOOOO! AGAHNIM! DO ME!

Inspector Cluseau:
Useless Frenchman.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Where is that heavy pro town discussion you are talking about? I see 3 people posting obvious things which anybody could have figured out reading the setup. Huzzah! Then we get this asian plan about we all fake or not fake night actions. Which just ends up confusing everybody. Inb4 the first guy calls the next one scum. Cuz he said he gave somebody an item at night and he didn't receive anything. Herpderp.

[FM Agahnim]

What for? He fails hard.

This is not Pub-Sc2 mafia.
Personally attacking me will not get you off pressure and will not clear you of what I have deemed as scum slips.
Being useless, obstinate, un-cooperating, and bloody pig-headed will not convince the town to mis-lynch me.
All it does, all it will ever do, is make you seem utterly and completely retarded.

[FM Ceasar]

In b4 Agahnim gets modkilled

[FM The Terminator]

Whatever guys. Do what you have to do. Keep pulling scum tells out of your butt. I wont be mad. I know this setup is too complicated for this community. It's ok. Just keep on fake claiming night actions at day. So the real scum can easily find the real town power roles to shoot them down at night.

"Tunneling", or concentrating excessively on a single player out of proportion to what would be necessary. That's exactly what Matt Damon does here and you all just hop on such a weak train because you are all just citizens and can't do shit at night. :D

It's pathetic.

Here i have a useful link for you guys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 scroll down to the town section and read carefully. It might help you out in the long run!


Also here the explanation of my code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_gdburNck


Ever seen any game, where somebody used codes as a full sentence? Are you guys really that stupid? Usually codes are limited to "letters" in the 1. 2. sentence, word.

I don't even...

Oh, hello [REDACTED]. I thought I recognized you.

You look like a scum who's been caught for the wrong reasons, and you're pissed because of it. See Subject 11 from Blazer's Experiment, who was caught day 1 on an RP slip and flipped witch. You aren't convincing me of your innocence. In fact, if jailor could jail after a lynch, I'd happily lynch you today.

Future edit: No COM-hunting. We can't have you modkilled yet, now can we?

[Forum Mafia GM]

FM Host will be offline for the next 14ish hours.

Please don't post over 1000 posts while I'm gone.


(GM goes to turn off "Check for New Replies" in settings so he can post this message after trying 5 times)

[FM Gandalf]

re: Aganihm's accusation about Jack Sparrow...

wtf? You're getting this from one missing shift key & from usual day 1 bullshit?

This sort of fake scumhunting usually signals one of two things:
1. Scum pretending to be pro-town.
2. Sheriff with a guilty read who doesn't want to claim their role.


I'm guessing #1.

[FM Agahnim]

In b4 Agahnim gets modkilled

How does this make sense?

[FM Wile E Coyote]

.

Or, you know, You could give me a break since the game has only been going on for what, 3-4 hours? And that I have other things to do.
And I think you guys are overthinking the Jack Sparrow thing. I don't consider it a scumslip.

But you have fun pointing fingers at everyone and stuff.

[FM Master Chef]

someone give a summary of what's been going on all these 14 pages. my eyes dont want to bleed

[FM The Terminator]

re: Aganihm's accusation about Jack Sparrow...

wtf? You're getting this from one missing shift key & from usual day 1 bullshit?

This sort of fake scumhunting usually signals one of two things:
1. Scum pretending to be pro-town.
2. Sheriff with a guilty read who doesn't want to claim their role.


I'm guessing #1.

His response to it is what makes me think he's scum. He looks like scum who's caught for the wrong reasons and is pissed because of it. See Beru and Nina in FM13 or Subject 11 in Blazer's Experiment.
If jailor could jail after a lynch, I'd happily lynch Jack today.

[FM Ceasar]

How does this make sense?

Read the rules.


3- Profiles
Invisible mode will be mandatory. You may not turn it off.

[FM The Terminator]

someone give a summary of what's been going on all these 14 pages. my eyes dont want to bleed


The Hypo Plan

Step One:
Everyone claims what happened to them at night. If you are town, DO NOT LIE!

Step 2:
Once ALL possible feedback claims have been recieved, we hypothetically claim what we did last night.


I was sheriff and checked The Terminator. He was innocent.
I was doctor and healed The Terminator. He was attacked!
I was vigilante and attacked The Terminator.
I was escort and blocked The Terminator.
I was blacksmith and gave The Terminator a gun.
I was jailor and jailed The Terminator.
I was bodyguard and protected The Terminator.
I was lookout and watched The Terminator. He was not visited.
I was citizen and didn't do anything.
Note: If you are not a role that gives feedback, claim your night actions within the parameter of results claims. e.g. if I claim roleblocked, say you are the escort who roleblocked me, even if you aren't. Also, keep your claims within the realm of what you would do if you were that role.

Step the third:
After or during step 2, claim a hypothetical action for the following night.


I am sheriff and will check The Terminator.
I am doctor and will heal The Terminator.
I am vigilante and will attack The Terminator.
I am escort and will block the Terminator.
I am blacksmith and will give The Terminator a gun.
I am jailor and will jail The Terminator.
I am bodyguard and will protect The Terminator.
I am lookout and will watch The Terminator.
I am citizen and can't do anything tonight.
In addition, if you see ANY claim that is not seconded, second it yourself. That way, if someone like an escort blocks a member of the mafia, there is a citizen claimed to block the mafia as well as the escort, and the escort may be protected.

The plan.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

This is not Pub-Sc2 mafia.
Personally attacking me will not get you off pressure and will not clear you of what I have deemed as scum slips.
Being useless, obstinate, un-cooperating, and bloody pig-headed will not convince the town to mis-lynch me.
All it does, all it will ever do, is make you seem utterly and completely retarded.

Where do i attack you personally? You fail. It's a fact. But please keep pulling more "scum tells" out of your butt. I don't think somebody will put a "plug" into it at night. =)

[FM Ceasar]

Read the rules.


3- Profiles
Invisible mode will be mandatory. You may not turn it off.

Fixed

[FM Agahnim]

re: Aganihm's accusation about Jack Sparrow...

wtf? You're getting this from one missing shift key & from usual day 1 bullshit?

This sort of fake scumhunting usually signals one of two things:
1. Scum pretending to be pro-town.
2. Sheriff with a guilty read who doesn't want to claim their role.


I'm guessing #1.

This is not day one.
This is my personal guess. He is likely to be scum though.
He has done nothing but troll and distract/attack since.
I don't even need to out results to determine the likelyhood of this guy being scum.
Besides, why are you so amped to defend him all of a sudden? We won't get a lynch off on this day anyways unless everyone posts and 21 other people besides me agree on my read.

[FM Indiana Jones]

You say instead. What is your impression that we would do with the sheriff hypo?

Guilty/Inno VS Town/Mafia/Evil is what I'm asking when we do the sheriff line.

[FM Agahnim]

Fixed

Whoops

[FM Agahnim]

Where do i attack you personally? You fail. It's a fact. But please keep pulling more "scum tells" out of your butt. I don't think somebody will put a "plug" into it at night. =)

I've only used two as have the others that voted you, which shows their agreement in my read.

The bolded is evidence of personal attacks

[FM Master Chef]

are we hypo-claiming yet?
if so, did anyone claim anything yet?

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Whatever guys. Do what you have to do. Keep pulling scum tells out of your butt. I wont be mad. I know this setup is too complicated for this community. It's ok. Just keep on fake claiming night actions at day. So the real scum can easily find the real town power roles to shoot them down at night.

"Tunneling", or concentrating excessively on a single player out of proportion to what would be necessary. That's exactly what Matt Damon does here and you all just hop on such a weak train because you are all just citizens and can't do shit at night. :D

It's pathetic.

Here i have a useful link for you guys: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748 scroll down to the town section and read carefully. It might help you out in the long run!


Also here the explanation of my code:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA_gdburNck


Ever seen any game, where somebody used codes as a full sentence? Are you guys really that stupid? Usually codes are limited to "letters" in the 1. 2. sentence, word.

I don't even...

Well, in my opinion, I'm still in the random voting phase and I thought the case against you seemed like the best "lead" so I decided to just sheep my vote on you and see how you reacted. It's not that we all immediately see your lowercase letters and assume OMG THIS GUY IS SCUM FOR SURE!!!! It's not what you say, but how you say it, and I don't think that you're reacting in a very town-minded way. With this setup, I think we can at the very least run up some trains and see how players react, look at voting patterns, any secret voting blocks that emerge, etc.

If you're town, you're not doing a good job of convincing us of your innocence. I'd drop the attitude, take a few deep breaths, and try to redirect the town's attention to another guy that you think is more scummy.


RULE NUMBER 2 guys.



Ok, the only think that I could possibly mention is that the sheriff gets his results in town/mafia/Evil neutral

Do we want to use that instead on the sheriff hypo?

I suggest that the sheriff just reveals his results as innocent/guilty because that way a guilty on a non mafia member doesn't instantly tell the mafia that the person who claims that result is faking. If town just gets innocent/guilty results from the hypo claims I think that's good enough since ultimately scum is just scum.

[FM The Terminator]

Guilty/Inno VS Town/Mafia/Evil is what I'm asking when we do the sheriff line.

Valid point. In my opinion, Guilty/Inno would be better than Town/Mafia/Evil, as the former would allow players to profess their greatest scumread without bothering with Mafia versus Neutral.
On second thought, it really doesn't matter either way.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

This is not day one.
This is my personal guess. He is likely to be scum though.
He has done nothing but troll and distract/attack since.
I don't even need to out results to determine the likelyhood of this guy being scum.
Besides, why are you so amped to defend him all of a sudden? We won't get a lynch off on this day anyways unless everyone posts and 21 other people besides me agree on my read.

I think Gandalf is high likely to be a stronger asset to town than you are. Surely i am mafia and Gandalf is my teammate who totaly thinks he can rescue me from the angry citizen mob and risks everything for me! Herpaderp.

Gooby plz! You are a terrible town leader wannabe.

[FM The Terminator]

are we hypo-claiming yet?
if so, did anyone claim anything yet?

There were two hypo's as of yet, but I'm not counting those since they occurred before all of the night results claims were in.

[FM Indiana Jones]

Jack is not responding to this pressure well.

[FM The Terminator]

Necessary Claims:
(If we’re missing a kill) Attacked and Healed
TWO roleblocked claims
Blacksmith item
Jailed Claim
Witch Claim
I have not yet seen any of these claims. If one of these has happened to you, speak up. Once ALL of these claims are received, we can continue with the hypo claims.

I'd forgotten witch'd claim XD

[FM Agahnim]

I think Gandalf is high likely to be a stronger asset to town than you are. Surely i am mafia and Gandalf is my teammate who totaly thinks he can rescue me from the angry citizen mob and risks everything for me! Herpaderp.

Gooby plz! You are a terrible town leader wannabe.

I actually believe Gandalf is a baffled Citizen who does not get why you are being voted.

[FM Agahnim]

Since it seems we are following the proposed plan everyone need to begin claiming what happened to them last night.

[FM Captain Obvious]

Interesting plan, let's see how it goes. When do we start? :D

[FM Indiana Jones]

FM Jack Sparrow

FM Jack Sparrow (7 [L-34]):
FM The Terminator, FM Robin Hood, FM Agahnim, FM Michigan J Frog, FM Inspector Cluseau, FM Yoda, FM Pinkie Pie

What the fuck?

FM Jack Sparrow

[FM Gandalf]

I'm not baffled. I just think you're trying too hard.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Dude whatever. You will lead town to your doom. The only good thing about getting me lynched is that it completely destroys your chances on getting MVP in this :D

[FM The Terminator]

I think Gandalf is high likely to be a stronger asset to town than you are. Surely i am mafia and Gandalf is my teammate who totaly thinks he can rescue me from the angry citizen mob and risks everything for me! Herpaderp.

Gooby plz! You are a terrible town leader wannabe.

hmm

Also, the biggest scumtell you've given imo is this anger. You look like pissed, caught scum.

[FM The Terminator]

Dude whatever. You will lead town to your doom. The only good thing about getting me lynched is that it completely destroys your chances on getting MVP in this :D

Not everyone can be as super pro as you

[FM Indiana Jones]

Also, the biggest scumtell you've given imo is this anger. You look like pissed, caught scum.

^^

[FM Agahnim]

Dude whatever. You will lead town to your doom. The only good thing about getting me lynched is that it completely destroys your chances on getting MVP in this :D

I fully expect to die tonight. Which is why I presented all my reads today.
I am not town leader. Frog or Terminator is.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

No one will shoot you. Lynching me is like killing yourself as well. Also i am always angry if i am confronted with stupidity.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Not everyone can be as super pro as you

I know. It's ok. I don't judge you guys for it. But lynching your smartest people on day 1 is just not really a good move.

[FM Master Chef]

I know. It's ok. I don't judge you guys for it. But lynching your smartest people on day 1 is just not really a good move.

r u the person that always says "im mvp" at the end of fm?

[FM The Terminator]

r u the person that always says "im mvp" at the end of fm?

No, he's [REDACTED].

Future edit: No COM speculation. Yayap's still eager to use his Force Lightning.

[FM The Terminator]

I know. It's ok. I don't judge you guys for it. But lynching your smartest people on day 1 is just not really a good move.

If you want to be helpful, what do you think of the plan?

[FM The Terminator]

Okay, I'm pretty exhausted. I'm off for the night.


I'll be back.

[FM Master Chef]

If you want to be helpful, what do you think of the plan?

how will we make everyone claim and then hypo-claim in 48 hours?
i dont expect everyone to hypo-claim but if someone goes wrong then we can expose a town PR

[FM Wile E Coyote]

I fully expect to die tonight. Which is why I presented all my reads today.
I am not town leader. Frog or Terminator is.

Your reads? You accuse me of being a scummy lurker because of my first three posts in the game. I'll remind you that I'm quite busy tonight.


I'm not baffled. I just think you're trying too hard.


Oh and,
Nothing happened to me last night.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

This plan using Hypos makes it pretty easy to backtrack all town power roles. After 3 - 5 days. It's a bad idea. You just follow the chains which make the most sense and shoot the guy next night. I am against it. Most people will fail to produce believable night actions which still make sense the following days. It helps scum more than us.

The best way to play this is to stay hidden as town role and wait for power claims as long the Jailor is alive lynching is stupid. This plan has too many holes which aren't predictable today. A pro scum will just abuse this system and if he is good he can even fake an aliby easy with it.

[FM Agahnim]

Your reads? You accuse me of being a scummy lurker because of my first three posts in the game. I'll remind you that I'm quite busy tonight.

You say this after I call you a scummy lurker. Not beforehand, to let the town know, which is something I see a towns-person doing.
If you really are so busy tonight why was your first post of the day a troll RP post and not a "I am going to be busy and not able to post a lot" post?

[FM Locutus]

Before we start to point fingers too much we should wait for everyone to post, it's only been 3 hours (16 pages whew) and may not see some people start posting for another 8+ hours due to timezones.

In my opinion, it's to early to start ravaging others posts, but never too early to formulate a plan.

In compliance with step one, nothing happened to me last night.

[FM King Arthur]

If you want to be helpful, what do you think of the plan?

I think thy step 2 should be avoided because it just adds confusion and it is a big waste of time to treat it as an individual task for the day. Time which we may need in days to come to discuss other things. We can simply repeat all the actions we performed the night before once more in the same post as the hypothetic claims for the next night. So that the powers that be have the opportunity to change their minds about their target during the night.

This way the last night action may be in question, but tis a price worth paying if those of a higher calling get a fair chance to read through everything and see things they may otherwise have missed.

Simply stick to claiming feedback at dawn and making claims of visitations for the coming night

[FM Jack Sparrow]

nothing happened to me last night.

[FM Cookie Monster]

-vote FM Jack Sparrow
Bad.. bad reaction

I want you guys to consider a few things before we go with the plan
1. When a Blackmailer/Escort/Jailor targets someone and hypo claims it, scum will have a narrower list of who they can possibly be
2. When a sheriff checks a scum and says guilty, that sheriff is revealed to the scum

[FM Jack Sparrow]

-vote FM Jack Sparrow
Bad.. bad reaction

I want you guys to consider a few things before we go with the plan
1. When a Blackmailer/Escort/Jailor targets someone and hypo claims it, scum will have a narrower list of who they can possibly be
2. When a sheriff checks a scum and says guilty, that sheriff is revealed to the scum

No my reaction is completely justified.

[FM Agahnim]

There is no Blackmailor.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Anyways have fun lynching me and blocking the jailor. I will check back on Day 2. Adios!

[FM Cookie Monster]

There is no BlackmailEr.

@Jack no it's not, your posts are similar to a typical scum play

[FM Gandalf]

Yeah, after thinking about it:

A few days it'll be really clear to the scum who our PR's are, even if all of the town gets in on the action. I think we should not implement the plan. (Although of course it will still be useful for people who received feedback from night actions to report it, in appropriate circumstances.)

[FM Agahnim]

I shall be leaving as well.

[FM Cookie Monster]

Anubis have made 1 post asking why is Caesar mafia
I want a good explanation from him of why he left so early

[FM Mr Bunny]

What's up, docs?

[FM King Arthur]

-vote FM Jack Sparrow
Bad.. bad reaction

I want you guys to consider a few things before we go with the plan
1. When a Blackmailer/Escort/Jailor targets someone and hypo claims it, scum will have a narrower list of who they can possibly be
2. When a sheriff checks a scum and says guilty, that sheriff is revealed to the scum

Blackmailer you say? My, I wonder where that came from.

I do agree with you that we should not have to post results such as sheriff finds and doctor healing success daily. Only feedback from other actions.

If we include confirmation or change of heart regarding the last night's actions on the next day's hypothetic actions post, we should still allow one and all to cover for the powers that be. That way the list shall not be narrowed down per say, as you mention in your first point. It also allows the enlightened to deliberately fake their hypothesised claim to make it seem like they are peasants covering for the craftsmen, while they are actually craftsmen themselves.

The only downside is that if a person with power dies, we cannot be certain of his final action.

[FM Watson]

Dear god...theres 2 posts per minute, well this is going to turn into a novel

[FM Cookie Monster]

Blackmailer you say? My, I wonder where that came from.

I do agree with you that we should not have to post results such as sheriff finds and doctor healing success daily. Only feedback from other actions.

If we include confirmation or change of heart regarding the last night's actions on the next day's hypothetic actions post, we should still allow one and all to cover for the powers that be. That way the list shall not be narrowed down per say, as you mention in your first point. It also allows the enlightened to deliberately fake their hypothesised claim to make it seem like they are peasants covering for the craftsmen, while they are actually craftsmen themselves.

The only downside is that if a person with power dies, we cannot be certain of his final action.

Blacksmith >.> The above post saying there's no blackmailer makes me type otherwise

[FM Watson]

As for this Hypo Plan,

As said, it's quite the double edged sword. It's a sure-fire way to reveal false claims and track down scum quickly. But, on the downside, by doing so we are also revealing our main (and few) assets called PRs to the scum, which can just as easily eliminate us.

Do we follow through knowing these extreme risks?

[FM Kermit]

yo niggas this game is chill yo.

[FM King Arthur]

To summarize a way in which we can still bring the plan to execution...

During the first 24 hours, we claim feedback received from the actions of other folks.

During the final 24 hours, we claim finalized actions from the previous night without feedback and a hypothesis of actions for the coming night, which provides a list of targets to pick from.


A few more pitfalls...

- The mafia may try to suggest a number of poor targets and get others to pile up on them too
- If someone fails to claim their feedback for a roleblock or some such, the escort may be stuck and unable to tell the truth unless others spread their votes to unclaimed candidates as well

[FM King Arthur]

- If someone fails to claim their feedback for a roleblock or some such, the escort may be stuck and unable to tell the truth unless others spread their votes to unclaimed candidates as well
This bit is of course referring to the mention of finalized actions for the previous night, which is necessary to reduce the risk of our power roles being exposed by process of elimination.

[FM King Arthur]

I believe that if we iron out the kinks of the plan, we can forge it to be fairly sound.

What we should perhaps be more worried about is whether all the commoners are capable and willing to function in a well-oiled machine. It does stand or fall depending on cooperation, dedication and great mental focus.

[FM Mr T]

how all y'all niggas doin!

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Town needs communication. To keep discussion going, I'm voting for the hypo-plan!

Definition of hypo: under, defective or inadequate.

Pro-hypo (1): FM Pinkie Pie
Anti-hypo:

[FM Mr Bunny]

Sumthin' tells me the citizens and scum will both be pro-hypo, while the town power will be anti-hypo.

[FM Watson]

I'm kinda inbetween. It makes things easier, but I'm afriad it'll just hurt us more in the end.

[FM Wile E Coyote]

You say this after I call you a scummy lurker. Not beforehand, to let the town know, which is something I see a towns-person doing.
If you really are so busy tonight why was your first post of the day a troll RP post and not a "I am going to be busy and not able to post a lot" post?

Apologies, then. I guess I should've mentionned it somewhere in there; I get your point.
Won't be back until tomorrow morning.

[FM Mr T]

I feel this plan is pretty stupid.. everyone should just claim what happened to them. Nothing happened to me.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Pro-hypo (1): FM Pinkie Pie
Anti-hypo:
Neut-hypo (1): FM Watson

FM Mr Bunny should give opinion. If town power with feedback is afraid, they can just give faked results. As long as all of us agree with that, it shouldn't be an issue? Scum can never trace tower power without feedback.

[FM Watson]

I am also confused about this plan in general.... If someone gives false reports....doesn't also hurt town? And if someone is to give a false hypo report, then cits would be required to give false reports too or else only PRs would be revealed...

This all just seems like a ploy to get those with abilities to reveal.

[FM Mr T]

I am also confused about this plan in general.... If someone gives false reports....doesn't also hurt town? And if someone is to give a false hypo report, then cits would be required to give false reports too or else only PRs would be revealed...

This all just seems like a ploy to get those with abilities to reveal.

Mr. T thinks it will just confuse town and be a huge waste of time. It also singles out town prs.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I feel this plan is pretty stupid.. everyone should just claim what happened to them. Nothing happened to me.

Why is it stupid? We will never know whom the Sheriff and Jailor cleared without last wills! If you don't want the other town power to claim, fine by me, but at least have investigative roles give us some hint if they die.

And if you ignore town power, at least Citizens have something to talk about! With this plan we can reduce trolling and spammy posts.

[FM Agahnim]

I am also confused about this plan in general.... If someone gives false reports....doesn't also hurt town? And if someone is to give a false hypo report, then cits would be required to give false reports too or else only PRs would be revealed...

This all just seems like a ploy to get those with abilities to reveal.

Thats because it probably is.

@Wile E.

Alright, you are back at neutralish for me.

@Everyone

I feel like the better thing to do is to simply claim what happened to you the previous night an come up with a collective choice of targets for each PR to target.

EX: Sheriff - Jack, Yoda, Rubber Ducky
Vigilante - No one yet
Jailor - Rubber Ducky, Pinkie Pie, Mr. T
Escort - Jack, Yoda, Mr. T

etc

[FM Gandalf]

I'm amazed at how badly most people are misunderstanding this plan. It's not that hard.

(It's also not worth carrying out. I vote anti-hypo.)

[FM Pinkie Pie]

This all just seems like a ploy to get those with abilities to reveal.

You didn't read my post! I already said scum can never trace tower power without feedback.

[FM Mr T]

You didn't read my post! I already said scum can never trace tower power without feedback.

it seems like a waste of time.

[FM Watson]

You stated it would reducing trolling....I highly doubt that, in fact....this plan is no different from normal everyday mafia games.... No one tells the truth anyway.

So whether this plan goes through or not, nothing will change

[FM Locutus]

it seems like a waste of time.

Haha. Poor Pinkie got shot down just like that.

In an effort to hide the PR's better, we could work in a buddy system where 4 or 5 people would post the same hypo.
The downside to that is PR's would need to hypo earlier to not be forced into a grouping that they don't want, mafia could influence the groups, etc.
I can't think of a way to fix the plan at this moment.
So I'm Anti-Hypo for now until it gets revised. As much as I don't want to lose a PR and not get info, I'd rather that than have them all picked off one by one. Especially considering we have like..8.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

[FM Watson]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

I would like to see full examples

[FM Michigan J Frog]

The purpose of the hypo plan is to counter the loss of information to town due to the no last wills mechanic. There are pros and cons to this plan that people have obviously brought up, and I guess it just comes down to whether we feel like it's worth the risk of possibly revealing pr's in order to actually make sure we collect the night action results. In practice, I have originally seen it just used to reveal sheriff results, but I figured why not extend it to all PR's.

I personally am pro-plan, in it's most minimal form.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

I'm in an anti-hypo time zone. I'll wait till the pro-hypos wake up.

Still don't understand how town power can be exposed.

I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

[FM Agahnim]

Post test

[FM King Tut]

Your pharaoh has arrived, peons. Pardon your excellency while I read the 200+ replies.

[FM Agahnim]

Fantastic. I am back.

I am pro-plan only if the others are pro-plan as well.
Its an all or nothing deal

[FM Watson]

Better be quick... 1.2 posts appear for ever minute that passes

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Fantastic. I am back.

I am pro-plan only if the others are pro-plan as well.
Its an all or nothing deal

Wow, the pro-hypos are wavering. What is this?


Your pharaoh has arrived, peons. Pardon your excellency while I read the 200+ replies.

You avatar shows FM Queen Tit.


I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

What scummy logic is that?

[FM Locutus]

I think people are talking about if I hypo claim sheriff with a guilty on say, 5 mafia members in a row, then the mafia know I'm the real sheriff, thus exposing a town power role.

Yea this. But less excessively.
M.J.Frog and 2 others sheriff hypo Jack Sparrow
The next day we lynch him and he flips mafia.
The mafia can assume that 1 of you may actually be sheriff. And over time this accumulates to them finding out roles.
Especially with escort/jailor claims and even blacksmith claims.
I know it's a stretch, but I'm more worried about the escort/jailor hypos. If we take out those two then I would probably reconsider my vote.

[FM Watson]

It's funny how this whole hypo thing is bullcrap. It's just as good as a random claim like everyone always does....Just now... Your giving it a special name! Congratz! You actually a pre-existing form of scumtell/trolling attribute somemore 'fake' definition.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Yea this. But less excessively.
M.J.Frog and 2 others sheriff hypo Jack Sparrow
The next day we lynch him and he flips mafia.
The mafia can assume that 1 of you may actually be sheriff. And over time this accumulates to them finding out roles.
Especially with escort/jailor claims and even blacksmith claims.
I know it's a stretch, but I'm more worried about the escort/jailor hypos. If we take out those two then I would probably reconsider my vote.

This setup has a confirmed framer. It might be wise to not try to give them ideas how to use their night actions. Also i suggest every Town PR to not waste their actions on me and check the lurky people.
Business as usual.

[FM Sherlock]

Sherlock is here and accustomed.

Seriously, so many posts in the first 5 hours... I barely managed to catch up.

And Jack Sparrow, for me everyone is guilty - you, those people who are voting you, and those people who don't belive people that are voting Jack Sparrow. The only person I can trust is myself.

[FM Cookie Monster]

Well I'm back
The Hypo thing only have 1 goal IMO
it is basically a more dangerous version of the last wills. Without last wills we can never know if a sheriff dies night 4 and doesn't reveal his info

[FM Cookie Monster]

Where did everybody suddenly go :(

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Meh, in my reread of the thread, I don't really find jack that scummy anymore.


Wolverine

I've just got a bit of a gut scum read on this guy after re-reading the thread. If pressed for reasons why I might be able to come up with something quantifiable.

[FM Watson]

Oh wonderful, Sherlock has arrived. I think I let him handle the reins from here.

[FM King Tut]

Nawt gunna lye. I just skimmed thro the ate pages. Useless shit. Hypo plan is shit. It's like saying "Hear I'm usefool for trying. In reality thiss plan dosnt do shit"

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Nawt gunna lye. I just skimmed thro the ate pages. Useless shit. Hypo plan is shit. It's like saying "Hear I'm usefool for trying. In reality thiss plan dosnt do shit"

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

[FM Agahnim]

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

It only works if we take the claims at face value and even then if the Sheriff/PRs themselves die.

[FM Ceasar]

Okay, time to finaly read those 375 posts

*Breaths deeply, stretches fingers*

[FM Gandalf]

If a sheriff dies w/o leaving a last will, we can look back on previous days and study what players he was casting suspicion on. Same goes for RB's that escorts think were significant, etc.

The point of a discussion-heavy, cit-based game of mafia is to continually reevaluate information, communication, votes, etc. in light of new things that arise later on. If a sheriff dies, we'll learn a lot just from having his role confirmed.

The risk, I think, is nowhere near worth the relatively meager potential reward. (I also think that people are underestimating just how great the risk is. Day 1, mafia can throw out all people who hypo incorrect "guilty" results and focus on the handful who have true positives. Day 2 the mafia can winnow that list down even further... Very, very quickly they'll have a tiny & accurate list of our sheriffs. Have you ever seen the "Akinator" website? It's the same principle.)

[FM Watson]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers

[FM Cookie Monster]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers
What makes me afraid most is the OVER COMPLEXITY which means that we might get sidetracked and would just makes it more difficult to scumhunt.

[FM King Tut]

Yes, it does. It provides a way for town to uncover "last will" type information from our town pr roles if they were to die before making their grand role claim and reveal. I would hardly say it's useless. Risky, yes. Useless no. There are pros and cons that can be debated, and I would prefer that we do some variation of this plan. However if most people would rather we don't do this, then that's fine... Just don't be sad if some PR dies without telling us any of his night action results.

So pretty much it's players playing normally without last wills? Sounds liek a grate plan.

[FM Gandalf]

Day 1, mafia can throw out all people who hypo incorrect "guilty" results and focus on the handful who have true positives.

In case it wasn't clear, the mafia can also throw out all hypos that incorrectly call a mafia member innocent. (Obviously they wouldn't know anything about sk, & vice versa, but the point is the mafia is still getting a lot of info from the hypos.)

[FM Michigan J Frog]

What is does is it provides a type of last will, but prevents any kind of action from taking place UNTIL the PR is dead...so basically the PR has to kill themselves just to prove a point. What good is that? It's as if your trying to reduce the PR numbers

No, a PR does not have to die to reveal themselves. They can reveal at any time. I don't see how the proposed plan precludes that at all.


What makes me afraid most is the OVER COMPLEXITY which means that we might get sidetracked and would just makes it more difficult to scumhunt.

Ok, I think this is a huge and legitimate concern that I hadn't considered. I don't really have a good rebuttal to this flaw in the plan.

If the general consensus seems to be that we do not care about last wills, then we should all just plan to adjust our play accordingly. Seems to me though that people here are rather lazy and would rather have solid night action claims generated by the hypo-claims to refer to upon the death of a PR than re-reading the day threads for clues. It's all just a matter of personal opinion.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

In case it wasn't clear, the mafia can also throw out all hypos that incorrectly call a mafia member innocent. (Obviously they wouldn't know anything about sk, & vice versa, but the point is the mafia is still getting a lot of info from the hypos.)

Yeah, this is why you don't hypo JUST cop results. However if we're hypo'ing sheriff claims, doctor claims, and other roles without feedback then even if someone is proven to be NOT sheriff that doesn't mean they are NOT doctor. Just because someone is NOT a sheriff doesn't mean they are NOT a PR with results that they wish to convey.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

FM Yosemite Sam

[FM Pinkie Pie]

Hey J Frog you didn't vote scum Wolverine. You vote tag failed.

[FM Gandalf]

Yeah, this is why you don't hypo JUST cop results. However if we're hypo'ing sheriff claims, doctor claims, and other roles without feedback then even if someone is proven to be NOT sheriff that doesn't mean they are NOT doctor.

I don't understand how this helps. This just means that the mafia gets more information in addition to finding out who our sheriffs are!

[FM Agahnim]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

FM Yosemite Sam

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

[FM Agahnim]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

FM Yosemite Sam

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

How I wish there is a Coroner.

This player is guilty.

FM Yosemite Sam

woah uh....
is this based on gut feeling or something more?
He hasn't posted yet if I recall correctly. The search function seems to be disabled for this thread so it's kind of debilitating.

[FM Ceasar]

Phew, read most of the thread. However, the only posts which I was obsessing about the entire time were the 2 posts made by Robin Hood during the first 50 posts of the game.


Geez, day one, and we're already pointing fingers. If I didn't know better, I'd say that all of you are scum.

Okay, does no one else see the total extreme scummyness in this post? He is saying that "pointing fingers" (aka: Scumhunting) is only done by scum. He is actively DISCOURAGING scumhunting. Seriously, that is around the scummyest thing I've ever read in an FM game.


Well apparently I wasn't the only person to take note of that post this day....


Look at this scum...(Referring to Robin Hood's post)

Early post made within the first hour of the game. Early accusation against scummyness of Hood. Nothing too hardcore. Now let's see Robin’s response...


You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.

Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhunting, and I believe as far as scummy reactions go, this is top tier. Cluseau believes that Hood’s post is scummy. He accuses Hood as scum. Hood’s response isn’t only a “You’re making me annoyed” post, but borderline threat. If my dad said “You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.” I’d interpret that as a “Shut up or things are going to get ugly”. Therefore, I would say that this is a veiled threat.

The rest of Hoods posts aren’t too interesting. However, despite posting A LOT, he has ultimately contributed next to nothing. Active lurking is when someone posts a lot, but has minimal helpful content in those posts. I would say this is definitely active lurking. Active lurking = very scummy.

I firmly believe that we are more likely to find scum by finding major scummy slip-ups instead of not approving of the overall game-tactics of a player. Hoods first posts are incredibly scummy. His posts since then have contributed little, and seem like those of one who simply wants to blend in. With D1, the amount of information is limited. However, in my opinion Hood is the most scummy player. Therefore…

FM Robin Hood

[FM Jack Sparrow]

An Interesting reveal and made at an interesting time.

I fail to see any reveal of Pinky Pie. Do you have bonus information we don't have?

[FM Gandalf]

Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhuntingFM Robin Hood

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

[FM Agahnim]

I fail to see any reveal of Pinky Pie. Do you have bonus information we don't have?

He had posted a few times before and yet now reveals a "gut read" on someone who has not posted yet.
And instead of saying why he instead says with conviction that someone is "guilty"

The words "guilty" after it was brought up that sheriffs can use the words guilty/innocent to reveal info is telling.


No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

I agree with this.
Very good post.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

This is partially true. If you have access to meta you can lynch scum with that. The quality of scum plays suffered greatly over the last couple of FM's. Meta dictates me that the players with a low post count are high likely to be scum. All our 1 post wonders are pretty good candidates for pressure votes.

[FM Jack Sparrow]

No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

You know that you just betitled yourself as scum player right? ;)

[FM Agahnim]

FM Jack Sparrow

Jack answer me a couple of questions will you?

What are you vague reads on Frog and Wolverine.

Who would you target tonight, hypothetically.

[FM Gandalf]

:)

[FM Jack Sparrow]

Frog's idea is in its core not a bad idea. It's just too hard to implement it efficiently. Frog clearly invested already more time in this game than most of the other people did. This implies that he has to keep it like that for the rest of the game or people will start to call him out as scum.

I have a strong town read on him. The plan has flaws but in the end he lead to a more cultivated form of dialogue on this Day 1 which is a good thing.

All i remember about Wolverine is his avatar. I have no reads on him. Which doesn't imply anything.


The better question is. Where are those roleblocks?

[FM Agahnim]

Frog's idea is in its core not a bad idea. It's just too hard to implement it efficiently. Frog clearly invested already more time in this game than most of the other people did. This implies that he has to keep it like that for the rest of the game or people will start to call him out as scum.

I have a strong town read on him. The plan has flaws but in the end he lead to a more cultivated form of dialogue on this Day 1 which is a good thing.

All i remember about Wolverine is his avatar. I have no reads on him. Which doesn't imply anything.


The better question is. Where are those roleblocks?

The Rb targets probably are ppl not posted yet/one of them is SK.
It would explain the one death better.
I actually feel the best thing to do is wait for everyone to post before making definitive statements.
Contradicted himself :shy:

[FM Agahnim]

You didn't answer my second question last night.

[FM Agahnim]

You didn't answer my second question.

-.-

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Phew, read most of the thread. However, the only posts which I was obsessing about the entire time were the 2 posts made by Robin Hood during the first 50 posts of the game.



Okay, does no one else see the total extreme scummyness in this post? He is saying that "pointing fingers" (aka: Scumhunting) is only done by scum. He is actively DISCOURAGING scumhunting. Seriously, that is around the scummyest thing I've ever read in an FM game.


Well apparently I wasn't the only person to take note of that post this day....



Early post made within the first hour of the game. Early accusation against scummyness of Hood. Nothing too hardcore. Now let's see Robin’s response...



Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhunting, and I believe as far as scummy reactions go, this is top tier. Cluseau believes that Hood’s post is scummy. He accuses Hood as scum. Hood’s response isn’t only a “You’re making me annoyed” post, but borderline threat. If my dad said “You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.” I’d interpret that as a “Shut up or things are going to get ugly”. Therefore, I would say that this is a veiled threat.

The rest of Hoods posts aren’t too interesting. However, despite posting A LOT, he has ultimately contributed next to nothing. Active lurking is when someone posts a lot, but has minimal helpful content in those posts. I would say this is definitely active lurking. Active lurking = very scummy.

I firmly believe that we are more likely to find scum by finding major scummy slip-ups instead of not approving of the overall game-tactics of a player. Hoods first posts are incredibly scummy. His posts since then have contributed little, and seem like those of one who simply wants to blend in. With D1, the amount of information is limited. However, in my opinion Hood is the most scummy player. Therefore…

FM Robin Hood


No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.

I think Ceasar's lead on Robin Hood is at the very least worthy of being looked into. I wonder why Gandalf is so dismissive of Ceasar's efforts. If it means anything, I already have you as a strong town read, so I'll chalk it up to simple differences in playstyle. I like that Ceasar is buliding cases based off of the day chat, and I, myself, want to look into the Robin Hood situation later when I get a chance. Voting patterns, tunnel vision, etc can be very helpful in finding scum in the mid/late game, but so early at the beginning it's small things like Ceasar is pointing out that can help us find candidates to pressure. I usually can get a pretty good read on a player after seeing how they react to pressure.

The last thing we want to do is have some of the conf. town players like Gandalf just brushing aside scumhunting efforts from players like Ceasar. Every player's opinion is important to consider.

[FM King Tut]

At the end of the game, I won't be surprised if the frog turns out to be non-town.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Phew, read most of the thread. However, the only posts which I was obsessing about the entire time were the 2 posts made by Robin Hood during the first 50 posts of the game.



Okay, does no one else see the total extreme scummyness in this post? He is saying that "pointing fingers" (aka: Scumhunting) is only done by scum. He is actively DISCOURAGING scumhunting. Seriously, that is around the scummyest thing I've ever read in an FM game.


Well apparently I wasn't the only person to take note of that post this day....



Early post made within the first hour of the game. Early accusation against scummyness of Hood. Nothing too hardcore. Now let's see Robin’s response...



Reactions are very important when it comes to scumhunting, and I believe as far as scummy reactions go, this is top tier. Cluseau believes that Hood’s post is scummy. He accuses Hood as scum. Hood’s response isn’t only a “You’re making me annoyed” post, but borderline threat. If my dad said “You know what? You're really getting on my nerves.” I’d interpret that as a “Shut up or things are going to get ugly”. Therefore, I would say that this is a veiled threat.

The rest of Hoods posts aren’t too interesting. However, despite posting A LOT, he has ultimately contributed next to nothing. Active lurking is when someone posts a lot, but has minimal helpful content in those posts. I would say this is definitely active lurking. Active lurking = very scummy.

I firmly believe that we are more likely to find scum by finding major scummy slip-ups instead of not approving of the overall game-tactics of a player. Hoods first posts are incredibly scummy. His posts since then have contributed little, and seem like those of one who simply wants to blend in. With D1, the amount of information is limited. However, in my opinion Hood is the most scummy player. Therefore…

FM Robin Hood


No. If I've learned anything from playing FM in the past, it's that things like emotional tone/reactions are terrible indicators of alignment. "Schumhunting" based on that alone distracts the town, kills innocent players, and lets savvy scum manipulate you by playing it cool.

Inspector Cluseau was getting on my nerves early in the thread, too.

We'll learn a lot more by paying attention to things like voting patterns, tunnel vision, and the like. Not issues like getting annoyed at annoying behavior.


Frog's idea is in its core not a bad idea. It's just too hard to implement it efficiently. Frog clearly invested already more time in this game than most of the other people did. This implies that he has to keep it like that for the rest of the game or people will start to call him out as scum.

I have a strong town read on him. The plan has flaws but in the end he lead to a more cultivated form of dialogue on this Day 1 which is a good thing.

All i remember about Wolverine is his avatar. I have no reads on him. Which doesn't imply anything.


The better question is. Where are those roleblocks?

I also wonder where the night feedback claims are. Who was witched? Who was role blocked? Anybody attacked and healed?
The only guy who claimed was receiving blacksmith materials - perhaps the one and only feedback that shouldn't have been claimed..... >.>

[FM Agahnim]

At the end of the game, I won't be surprised if the frog turns out to be non-town.

Wouldn't surprise me either.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

Sorry for my problems with the multiquote function. I guess I need to manually uncheck them.

After reviewing Ceasar's case on Robin Hood.... I just don't really see it. But I commend you for your effort.

My strongest scum reads are Wolverine (gut scum read just because of his really hands-off play thus far) and Kermit (posting that redundant role list and prematurely claiming citizen). Something about that citizen claim seems odd in a game where there are no masons and no clear advantage to claiming citizen... Two guys to keep an eye on should I die tonight.

[FM Michigan J Frog]

At the end of the game, I won't be surprised if the frog turns out to be non-town.


Wouldn't surprise me either.


HERPDERP if I'm scum I can just lurk and win ez. I've done it before, it's worked for me with 100% accuracy in anon-games.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

It is advantageous for town power to act like citizens.

It is also advantageous for Sheriff not to reveal mafia immediately. Talk a bit more with them, see their buddying patterns then BAM!

[FM Agahnim]

HERPDERP if I'm scum I can just lurk and win ez. I've done it before, it's worked for me with 100% accuracy in anon-games.

I highly doubt this.
Lurking is a huge scumslip and more than likely will get you checked/lynched for doing so.
There is no way you have a 100% win rate as scum by lurking. (1 game does not count btw.)

[FM Pinkie Pie]

FM Queen Tit is around only to say "u sux".

Should we lynch AFKers, let jailor execute AFKers or let Yayap modkill AFKers?

If not lets pressure Wolverine and Robin Hood.

[FM Hungry]

Im not afk don't kill me!

[FM Agahnim]

FM Queen Tit is around only to say "u sux".

Should we lynch AFKers, let jailor execute AFKers or let Yayap modkill AFKers?

If not lets pressure Wolverine and Robin Hood.

FM Robin Hood

I believe this vote is a better choice than the "gut" read based upon the wall of text presented and the summary which followed it.
More time taken = more likely real lead. imo

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I highly doubt this.
Lurking is a huge scumslip and more than likely will get you checked/lynched for doing so.
There is no way you have a 100% win rate as scum by lurking. (1 game does not count btw.)

My experience is that town would rather lynch people whom they don't agree with than lurkers.

[FM Pinkie Pie]

I am a pony. Neigh neigh.

FM Robin Hood

[FM Sherlock]

I am not the real Sherolock, just for your info. I'm actually a muppet who is controlled by [REDACTED].

[FM Michigan J Frog]

I think it's a towntell that Agahnim keeps starting so many trains, i.e. the one on Jack Sparrow and being the second vote on Robin Hood. It's in town's best interests to be polarizing to help spark discussion especially in a game like this. However, I am not convinced that Robin Hood is scum.

I think Kermit is more scummy because:
1. Early citizen claim in a game with no masons.
2. Active lurking: Kermit posts a role list (#156) that is basically, and almost completely a copy of Agahnim's formatted role list (#49). This post adds no new content to the game but lets Kermit seem nice and helpful.
3. Spam: He pops in every so often to post a "yo niggas this game is chill yo." (#336) yet doesn't comment on other things that the town is actually discussing like the plan to hypo-claim pr roles

Kermit

[FM Cookie Monster]

I highly doubt this.
Lurking is a huge scumslip and more than likely will get you checked/lynched for doing so.
There is no way you have a 100% win rate as scum by lurking. (1 game does not count btw.)

This
Any experienced player will never lurk unless really needed to
Which means that frog could be WiFOMing

















It surprises me how obvious the COM identity of some players :O

[FM Cookie Monster]

Im not afk don't kill me!

Does that mean you are lurking?

[FM Cookie Monster]

"It is advantageous for town power to act like citizens. It is also advantageous for Sheriff not to reveal mafia immediately. Talk a bit more with..."
Pinkie I object this statement
I think it will be more beneficial for sheriff to reveal immediately
In a game of 8 scums the killing of 1 scum reduces their power significantly, also last wills are absent so information will be lost. Doctors can also heal them since scum will have a relatively hard time finding who the doctor is
Talk a bit more with... <<< and what does that statement mean

[FM Cookie Monster]

IF YOU ARE HEALED CLAIM NOW
If nobody claims healed, it is safe to say that either the SK found a mafia, or an Escort/jailor successfully blocks him, and should do so again

[FM Captain Obvious]

IF YOU ARE HEALED CLAIM NOW
If nobody claims healed, it is safe to say that either the SK found a mafia, or an Escort/jailor successfully blocks him, and should do so again

I wouldn't count on that, the SK could be AFK. I'm sure there is at least one person out of the 40 players is AFK.
I also question as to why you instruct escorts to role-block the same person again. The first thing that comes to mind for any escort when there are missing kills is whether to roleblock the same person again.
Also you took my job >:(

[FM Batman]

NANANANANANANA BATMAN
I wonder if my name can be changed to Bruce Wayne during the day? Pesky reporters and lowly criminals are on my heels every night, i don't feel the need to fight them off at daytime aswell.
Nothing happened to me, which i find peculiar having the most awesome name along with Captain Jack.

[FM Dracula]

Just woke up. The scummiest person to me is kermit. For all the aforementioned reasons. Another person I don't like is count von count. Made only two rp posts and disappeared.

[FM Sherlock]

NANANANANANANA BATMAN
I wonder if my name can be changed to Bruce Wayne during the day? Pesky reporters and lowly criminals are on my heels every night, i don't feel the need to fight them off at daytime aswell.
Nothing happened to me, which i find peculiar having the most awesome name along with Captain Jack.

So does that means that in the day you are "town-aligned" Bruce Wayne at day and Mafia-aligned Batman at night? Is Robin your mafia teammate?

[FM Robin Hood]

So does that means that in the day you are "town-aligned" Bruce Wayne at day and Mafia-aligned Batman at night? Is Robin your mafia teammate?

I deny it!

[FM Agahnim]

FM Robin Hood

[FM The Terminator]

I'm back.

I don't think the plan is "handing our PRs to the mafia on a silver platter." In my summary, I advised all players to "double up" on all PR claims: Essentially, let no specific action stand alone. So even if one sheriff gets finds a mafia, they won't know that he's the sheriff because 4 or 5 citizens also claimed the same guilty result. I personally believe the reward outweighs the risk, because I think the risk is rather low--we have 25 citizens today, which means 25 people to cover up PR claims.

Whatever your opinion of the plan, we definitely need all night action claims as soon as possible.

[FM Robin Hood]

Whoa, how did I get three votes? What happened last night?

[FM Mr T]

I'm back.

I don't think the plan is "handing our PRs to the mafia on a silver platter." In my summary, I advised all players to "double up" on all PR claims: Essentially, let no specific action stand alone. So even if one sheriff gets finds a mafia, they won't know that he's the sheriff because 4 or 5 citizens also claimed the same guilty result. I personally believe the reward outweighs the risk, because I think the risk is rather low--we have 25 citizens today, which means 25 people to cover up PR claims.

Whatever your opinion of the plan, we definitely need all night action claims as soon as possible.

So if Sheriff says someone is guilty and 5 citizens also claim afterwards, what would stop mafia from killing the first claimer?

[FM The Terminator]

So if Sheriff says someone is guilty and 5 citizens also claim afterwards, what would stop mafia from killing the first claimer?

What's to stop a citizen from claiming first?

[FM Mr T]

What's to stop a citizen from claiming first?

how does he know who's guilty?

[FM The Terminator]

how does he know who's guilty?

His own thoughts/reads, and why does he have to?

[FM Mr T]

His own thoughts/reads, and why does he have to?

How will we know which lead to follow? I'd rather have a sheriff come out and then a hidden doctor heal him.

[FM The Terminator]

How will we know which lead to follow? I'd rather have a sheriff come out and then a hidden doctor heal him.

You're missing the point of the whole plan. We aren't following the lead of someone who claims a hypothetical guilty read and flips citizen, we're following said hypo guilty read of someone who dies and flips sheriff.

Let's say for the moment that I'm sheriff. Tomorrow within my hypo claims I say that Jack was mafia. The next day I say Agahnim is not suspicious. The following day I find Frog to be Serial Killer. The next night, I die. The town looks back through my hypothetical claims and sees that they need to lynch Jack and Frog, and that Agahnim is probably innocent.

This is meant as a last will, not a massclaim.

[FM Gandalf]

and why does he have to?

Because either a cit gets a really lucky guess that X is scum and a real sheriff discovered X is scum that night, or the sheriff has to be the first one to claim the guilty result.

Again, correlation between day is huge. Just pay attention to the people who have accurate guilty on several days results near the beginning of a string of claims. Correlate that with the people who never have unjustified guilty results, and you'll have a short short list of town sheriffs. I'd be willing to bet that this lets the mafia single out the sheriffs by day 4-5 at the latest. (Remember that they'll also have consigs to help triangulate the process, if sheriff hunting is their top priority.)

[FM Gandalf]

This is meant as a last will, not a massclaim.

Yes, but the point is, it will function as a massclaim that only the mafia can read. That isn't worth sort of salvaging last will functionality.

[FM The Terminator]

Because either a cit gets a really lucky guess that X is scum and a real sheriff discovered X is scum that night, or the sheriff has to be the first one to claim the guilty result.

Again, correlation between day is huge. Just pay attention to the people who have accurate guilty on several days results near the beginning of a string of claims. Correlate that with the people who never have unjustified guilty results, and you'll have a short short list of town sheriffs. I'd be willing to bet that this lets the mafia single out the sheriffs by day 4-5 at the latest. (Remember that they'll also have consigs to help triangulate the process, if sheriff hunting is their top priority.)

"guess" not necessarily. There are ways of finding out who is scum without using night actions. I'm sure there are players here who could do that. Hell, that's the whole point of this setup. And even then if a citizen guesses wrong, they could still be a different power role. Remember that this isn't just for sheriff claims, but also for Doctor, Escort, Vigilante, and Jailor claims.

And anyway, if a sheriff has enough leads by day 4-5 for the mafia to want to kill him because they're sure he's sheriff, that means we can use his death to lynch 3-4 scum.

Also, this is something that Frog brought up in his first post on the topic, this will force scum to plan their fakeclaim, if they make one, starting today. There's another Pro to the idea.

[FM The Terminator]

And what's to stop a citizen from faking a guilty result on a mafia that isn't checked by the sheriff, and getting himself killed in place of a PR?

[FM The Terminator]

Yes, but the point is, it will function as a massclaim that only the mafia can read. That isn't worth sort of salvaging last will functionality.

Only if each PR is the only person to claim his or her action correctly.

[FM Gandalf]

Only if each PR is the only person to claim his or her action correctly.

On one day, maybe the PR won't be the the only person to claim his action correctly. Taking two days together, there may be 1-2 people who claim both actions with the PR. By three days, except in the case of deliberate and obvious copying, no one will line up exactly with the PR.

The fact that everyone does this for every role doesn't make the situation better. It makes it worse because there's that much more information for the mafia to triangulate with.

A cit may get a lucky guilty guess. And a good town player can have amazingly accurate scum reads. (Yayap in FM3, anyone?) So the info the mafia gets won't be 100% accurate. But it'll still be very detailed, and it'll only confound PR's with active intelligent citizens, who are also players that we don't want to lose. So it doesn't help the situation that much.

As for forcing mafia to prepare roleclaims early, this is indeed a benefit. But the situation is still asymmetrical, because the mafia has lots of information that the town doesn't have. So they will start to benefit from collating the hypo data long before the town does, and it's that window during the midgame where this'll make the difference.

[FM Gandalf]

And anyway, if a sheriff has enough leads by day 4-5 for the mafia to want to kill him because they're sure he's sheriff, that means we can use his death to lynch 3-4 scum.

Say it's day 4, and our sheriff has gotten 1 accurate guilty result, and 3 accurate innocent results. To the mafia, this is all proof that this player is never wrong (since the mafia knows who is guilty and who is innocent).

So our sheriff dies, and we get the name of only 1 mafia. (We also clear suspicion on 3 other people, which is substantially less useful.)

[FM Gandalf]

Of course, the situation gets even worse if we adopt the (absolutely terrible) idea of pre-hypoing as well.

If the mafia has suspicion about a player being sheriff, they just have to pay attention to who he pre-hypos. Frame that person, note that the putative sheriff gets a guilty result on the next post-hypo, and bam. Dead sheriff.

[FM The Terminator]

Say it's day 4, and our sheriff has gotten 1 accurate guilty result, and 3 accurate innocent results. To the mafia, this is all proof that this player is never wrong (since the mafia knows who is guilty and who is innocent).

So our sheriff dies, and we get the name of only 1 mafia. (We also clear suspicion on 3 other people, which is substantially less useful.)

Okay, let's imagine that scenario. In that case, we trade a mafia member for a sheriff. We also gain information from lynching that mafia member. It's possible that we discover more than one mafia member. 1-2 mafia for 1 sheriff, while not ideal, is an okay trade when there are only 6 mafia. Plus, other PRs are still able to act.

Now, let's say it's day 4, and our CITIZEN has gotten 1 accurate guilty result, and 3 accurate innocent results. To the mafia, this is all proof that that this player is never wrong (since the mafia knows who is guilty and who is innocent).
So a citizen dies, and we may use him to find a mafia or two.
That's part of why this plan works. There's always the possibility that someone is a lucky/smart citizen. It's as good as WIFOM protection--the mafia won't want to waste a kill on a citizen.

[FM Sherlock]

Another problem is that there is a witch present. If a town PR would claim himslef out in the open, a witch then makes that role useless. And finding that witch amongst 30+ other players is near impossible.

[FM The Terminator]

On one day, maybe the PR won't be the the only person to claim his action correctly. Taking two days together, there may be 1-2 people who claim both actions with the PR. By three days, except in the case of deliberate and obvious copying, no one will line up exactly with the PR.

The fact that everyone does this for every role doesn't make the situation better. It makes it worse because there's that much more information for the mafia to triangulate with.

A cit may get a lucky guilty guess. And a good town player can have amazingly accurate scum reads. (Yayap in FM3, anyone?) So the info the mafia gets won't be 100% accurate. But it'll still be very detailed, and it'll only confound PR's with active intelligent citizens, who are also players that we don't want to lose. So it doesn't help the situation that much.

As for forcing mafia to prepare roleclaims early, this is indeed a benefit. But the situation is still asymmetrical, because the mafia has lots of information that the town doesn't have. So they will start to benefit from collating the hypo data long before the town does, and it's that window during the midgame where this'll make the difference.

With 40 people alive, I'd say there's almost too much information. Remember that the mafia have no way of knowing if someone actually checked them. The only (town) roles that give feedback are escort, jailor, and blacksmith, and EVERYONE will be claiming the same results for those.

[FM Gandalf]

So a citizen dies, and we may use him to find a mafia or two.


Or we don't because we go "oh he was a citizen so his hypos mean nothing."

If we're going to trust evidence and argumentation, we don't need hypos. If we aren't, in this setup we're doomed anyway.

To respond to your earlier points: yes, 1-2 mafia for 1 sheriff is a positive trade. A bishop for a rook, maybe. Or we could keep our bishop protected by a knight and still let it keep the rook pinned down. The point is that we don't need hypos to glean last will-like information from a sheriff's death: just look at what they were saying during the day & consider it in a new light.

[FM Yoda]

It's as good as WIFOM protection--the mafia won't want to waste a kill on a citizen.

Citizen killed, hide themselves mafia will.

Scapegoat.

[FM The Terminator]

Another problem is that there is a witch present. If a town PR would claim himslef out in the open, a witch then makes that role useless. And finding that witch amongst 30+ other players is near impossible.

That's part of why we're doing this. No PR is claiming himself out in the open. Everyone is saying what they would have done IF they were a PR. The witch has to decide for himself who the PRs are.

[FM The Terminator]

With 40 people alive, I'd say there's almost too much information. Remember that the mafia have no way of knowing if someone actually checked them. The only (town) roles that give feedback are escort, jailor, and blacksmith, and EVERYONE will be claiming the same results for those.

And a doctor, in case of an attack+heal

[FM Gandalf]

With 40 people alive, I'd say there's almost too much information.

Nope. Assign each mafia member a different PR. "X, you track sheriff hypos. Y, you track escort hypos," and so on. Not that hard to do, and you can discard more and more people from your active tracking list as soon as they make a false claim.



Remember that the mafia have no way of knowing if someone actually checked them.

What does this even mean? Of course they don't. But they know who could have checked them, and who can't have. The "can't have" list is going to grow exponentially faster than the "can have" list.

[FM The Terminator]

Or we don't because we go "oh he was a citizen so his hypos mean nothing."

If we're going to trust evidence and argumentation, we don't need hypos. If we aren't, in this setup we're doomed anyway.

To respond to your earlier points: yes, 1-2 mafia for 1 sheriff is a positive trade. A bishop for a rook, maybe. Or we could keep our bishop protected by a knight and still let it keep the rook pinned down. The point is that we don't need hypos to glean last will-like information from a sheriff's death: just look at what they were saying during the day & consider it in a new light.

For a sheriff, sure. For an escort who found the killer, maybe. For anyone else, town could use that information to their advantage. What if a doctor gets the heal on somebody and dies without revealing it, and then a mafia comes on and claims to be the doctor who saved him? With the hypo, we could kill the liar.

[FM Yoda]

For a sheriff, sure. For an escort who found the killer, maybe. For anyone else, town could use that information to their advantage. What if a doctor gets the heal on somebody and dies without revealing it, and then a mafia comes on and claims to be the doctor who saved him? With the hypo, we could kill the liar.

Blacksmith?

[FM Gandalf]

For a sheriff, sure. For an escort who found the killer, maybe. For anyone else, town could use that information to their advantage. What if a doctor gets the heal on somebody and dies without revealing it, and then a mafia comes on and claims to be the doctor who saved him? With the hypo, we could kill the liar.

With the hypo, the mafia member simply doesn't claim doctor. Why would they even claim doctor in the first place, even without a hypo? That just puts 100% guilt on them when the other doctor dies (or counterclaims).

With hypos, an attack-and-heal victim has to claim immediately. If they make a mistake & don't, the doctor is shit out of luck. Either he hypos honestly and reveals himself to the mafia, or he lies in his hypo and screws the system over. The system is extremely prone to user error, and even with 100% use, in this case it has no benefit. (And in other cases it has drawbacks.)

[FM The Terminator]

You do make a lot of valid points. I happen to disagree with some of your assessments on usefulness, and I believe that the plan is a sound one whose benefits outweigh the risks. However, it's not going to work if not everyone is on board. So I'll drop it for now. (Also, I need to study for exams.)

[FM Gandalf]

Yes, sorry to take up so much space arguing about this. I understand the appeal of the plan (and early in the day I thought it sounded like a cool idea), but I'm really concerned it'll do more harm than good.

We've got some smart players on this town, and I'm confident we can do well even without confirmed info from our PR's.

[FM Robin Hood]

I'm confused. I'm just going to go with the hypo-claim plan and be done with it.

[FM Gimli]

Hey guys, I'm here.

[FM Gimli]

I mean-

AND MY AXE

[FM Gandalf]

I'm going to be away for about 12 hours now. Good luck everyone.

[FM Yoda]

Hey guys, I'm here.

Smaller in size are we, but larger in power.

[FM King Arthur]

To everyone who is so worried about missing night result claims from roleblocks and such, remember that the first night was only about 21 hours long.

Night 1 start: 14-12-2012, 07:55 PM
Day 1 start: 15-12-2012, 04:59 PM

Twould not surprise me at all if a bunch of people did not check in yet during night 1, much less submit an action. The same is probably true for the serial killer, as someone else already stated. Tis a better chance than him willy nilly attacking a mafia or neutral player in any case. Or even targeting the same person as a doctor. And unless his target was healed by a doctor, there would be no way to find out who kept quiet about an attack. So I do not think this particular subject warrants further investigation.

[FM The Joker]

hi.

[FM The Joker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLU1xyYX-do

[FM Prince Thrakhath]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/222306_448059035257189_2083593132_n.jpg

[Forum Mafia GM]

FMGM Announcement:

In view of certain troubles with posts going moderated because of links in the post, I have manually boosted everyones post count to a number I will let Count von Count tell you. This will solve the conflit between the minimum post count needed to not have links be moderated. Keep in mind that all links to outside the forums must be "OK" with me before posting.

5 posts have been moderated so far, 3 were approved since I saw them within 5 mins of them being posted and people weren't caught up to that point yet. I deleted the last 2 since it was a few pages ago and I don't want to waste your time as you go searching for them.

[FM Yosemite Sam]

My first post will be: Hello world!

[FM Yosemite Sam]

Sorry for my late posts,had a busy day,anyway I'm Sheriff and I got a clue.

I found a member of the mafia,framing that target out of other 30+ targets sounds silly. So I'll just go ahead and reveal who appeared as mafia last night:
FM Watson

[FM Yosemite Sam]

If you guys start crapping me with trash comments,thinking me for an executioner,while he's not even in the role list or similar things like that... doc please, do the right thing.

[FM King Arthur]

M.J.Frog and 2 others sheriff hypo Jack Sparrow
The next day we lynch him and he flips mafia.
The mafia can assume that 1 of you may actually be sheriff. And over time this accumulates to them finding out roles.

This much is indeed true. But a greater risk is if a mafia player is hypo claimed to be guilty, but not lynched. The mafia will still know the identity of the sheriff, but the rest of us won't. Another issue is that if everyone is calling guilty and innocent results, it will be far too hard to tell the truth apart from the filthy lies.


A cit may get a lucky guilty guess. And a good town player can have amazingly accurate scum reads. (Yayap in FM3, anyone?) So the info the mafia gets won't be 100% accurate. But it'll still be very detailed, and it'll only confound PR's with active intelligent citizens, who are also players that we don't want to lose. So it doesn't help the situation that much.

This is why, if we were to execute the plan, I'd be against posting sheriff results. A simple confirmation on who you would supposedly really have checked the previous night would suffice. Should a sheriff die before revealing his information, we will still know the people he visited and how he responded to them after checking them. If his response seemed positive enough, we may assume the result probably came up innocent. This is much more reliable information than simply guessing who might have come up innocent to a dead sheriff. And confirming innocents is almost equally important as finding the evil that plagues our lands. The only misleading information would be on the Godfather.


I still do believe that the biggest issue is that we would need to get every good soul to cooperate and provide feedback on time. Else the plan's utility will crumble and become easily exploited by the enemy. Without sufficient claims to cover each potential target, it would be too simple to tell the liars apart from the rest. Without sufficient attention to detail in claims, the combined claims over several days may allow the mafia to eliminate players from being certain roles. While I wouldst have liked it to be so, I cannot say that I have faith in the cooperation of the entire town. Even if a sufficient number would agree to work together, we cannot take their word for granted.


Therefore, I propose the following.

We cut the hypothetical claim plan. Instead, each of us posts our supposed night visitation as a sheriff from the previous night only. Not the other roles. We do not add results saying whether the target was innocent, mafia or evil. Naturally, a true sheriff may still make a full claim whenever he so desires.

If an escort, sheriff or blacksmith has likely incriminating evidence against anyone on day 3 or later, they should claim immediately. The escort and sheriff with their entire list of night actions and the blacksmith solely with the relevant information. The gaelor will confirm his prisoners from past nights to his fresh prisoner each night. Other than that, the gaelor, doctors and vigilante will remain in the shadows.

How doth thee think that sounds?

[FM Yosemite Sam]

This much is indeed true. But a greater risk is if a mafia player is hypo claimed to be guilty, but not lynched. The mafia will still know the identity of the sheriff, but the rest of us won't. Another issue is that if everyone is calling guilty and innocent results, it will be far too hard to tell the truth apart from the filthy lies.


This is why, if we were to execute the plan, I'd be against posting sheriff results. A simple confirmation on who you would supposedly really have checked the previous night would suffice. Should a sheriff die before revealing his information, we will still know the people he visited and how he responded to them after checking them. If his response seemed positive enough, we may assume the result probably came up innocent. This is much more reliable information than simply guessing who might have come up innocent to a dead sheriff. And confirming innocents is almost equally important as finding the evil that plagues our lands. The only misleading information would be on the Godfather.


I still do believe that the biggest issue is that we would need to get every good soul to cooperate and provide feedback on time. Else the plan's utility will crumble and become easily exploited by the enemy. Without sufficient claims to cover each potential target, it would be too simple to tell the liars apart from the rest. Without sufficient attention to detail in claims, the combined claims over several days may allow the mafia to eliminate players from being certain roles. While I wouldst have liked it to be so, I cannot say that I have faith in the cooperation of the entire town. Even if a sufficient number would agree to work together, we cannot take their word for granted.


Therefore, I propose the following.

We cut the hypothetical claim plan. Instead, each of us posts our supposed night visitation as a sheriff from the previous night only. Not the other roles. We do not add results saying whether the target was innocent, mafia or evil. Naturally, a true sheriff may still make a full claim whenever he so desires.

If an escort, sheriff or blacksmith has likely incriminating evidence against anyone on day 3 or later, they should claim immediately. The escort and sheriff with their entire list of night actions and the blacksmith solely with the relevant information. The gaelor will confirm his prisoners from past nights to his fresh prisoner each night. Other than that, the gaelor, doctors and vigilante will remain in the shadows.

How doth thee think that sounds?

Or just votes first,discussions later,scum.

[FM King Arthur]

Although the claime madeth by Yosemite Sam's does come out of the blue, I did find Watson's reaction to our attempt to organize to be a wee bit... shall we say, troubling? He didst not put much thought into his arguments either. He was merely against it by principle.

There is no jester and there is no executioner. This be too risky a claim for evil to make. And thus I will support his vote. And so shouldst you all.

FM Watson

[FM King Arthur]

Or just votes first,discussions later,scum.

Doth thou think I writeth that much so fast after thee made thine post? Thou thinketh wrong, my hot-tempered friend. I didst not see thine post until after I submitted mine own.

[FM Yosemite Sam]

A wise decision, King Arthur.

[FM Yosemite Sam]

Seems like my browser did not load thee vote :(

[FM Sherlock]

Yosemite Sam, do you realize that you would be controlled by the witch afterwards if he really flips mafia?

I guess that you really have accepted the risks if you decided to claim youself.

[FM Indiana Jones]

FM Watson

The reward greatly outweighs the risk. We follow the sheriff here and get a confirmed town, with a doctor healing him.

If he is wrong, then lynch. Another town role should never lie about sheriff lies.

[FM Yoda]

FM Watson

[FM Master Chef]

Hello everyone!

I find Yosemite's claim to be useful. I say we lynch Watson. Mafia wouldn't claim sheriff so early because it would get them shot by a vigilante.

[FM Master Chef]

FM Watson

[FM Hamburglar]

hello everyone, I will be your burglar.

[FM The Terminator]

FM Watson

I don't want him lynched until the deadline. We need to make sure everyone posts. (and jailor has time to jail)

[FM The Terminator]

FM Watson

I don't want him lynched until the deadline. We need to make sure everyone posts. (and jailor has time to jail)

wait nevermind jailor can't jail after lynch

we still need to let people post

[FM Master Chef]

wait nevermind jailor can't jail after lynch

we still need to let people post


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9-Te-DPbSE

[FM Prince Thrakhath]

This is a nice game so far! :)

1|11|2 3|4|55|1|6

[FM Hamburglar]

actually no. I didn't sign up for this. NO no NO!

[FM Hamburglar]

FM Watson

with 41 people left in this game I am wiling to take this gamble.

[FM Master Chef]

fuck ya i got a better avatar

[FM Hamburglar]

fuck ya i got a better avatar

lol

[Forum Mafia GM]

fuck ya i got a better avatar

I might start adding avatars to those who still have none... and as some of you have noticed, I changed King Tuts avatar, he may change it again if he wishes.

[FM Master Chef]

I might start adding avatars to those who still have none... and as some of you have noticed, I changed King Tuts avatar, he may change it again if he wishes.

he??????

[GM edit] King Tut was a male, now thats enough COM prodding from you [/GM edit]

[FM Hungry]

Fm Watson
I like trains

[FM Ceasar]

FM Watson

I see no reason why not to put our faith in the Sheriff claim.

[FM Wile E Coyote]

Ughhh. The hangover.
Hello everyone.

Considering it is the only ''real lead'' we have so far, I'm ready to follow it; although I still think claiming Sheriff on our first day was a terrible idea since the witch can just mess with your results every night from now on. Guess we'll have to see...

M-FM Watson

[FM Hungry]

FM Watson

I see no reason why not to put our faith in the Sheriff claim.

Can i eat you?

[FM Ceasar]

Yosemite Sam, do you realize that you would be controlled by the witch afterwards if he really flips mafia?

I guess that you really have accepted the risks if you decided to claim youself.

Translation?: Hey Witch. We're not going to use our Consort on the Sheriff. It is your responsibility to get Sam off our backs.

[FM Hungry]

Is it even possible to lynch Watson or will the vote requirement go down later today?.

[FM Dracula]

-vote FM Watson

Trains didnt exist in my time.

[FM Dracula]

And now I know I don't need to add color.

[FM Hamburglar]

-vote FM Watson

Trains didnt exist in my time.

... you fail big time. fix your vote or your on my scumlist

[FM Master Chef]

[GM edit] King Tut was a male, now thats enough COM prodding from you [/GM edit]

umad?