Witch additions

[Twisted]

I feel the witch right now is in a bad position, I think a few minor changes would actually make the witch fun.

1. Doctors targeted by witches. Right now if a witch knows some one is a doctor, the witch cant use that fact to have them heal the witch. The cancel buttons are in place of having yourself as a target. I was in one game where I was sure some one was a doctor (turns out they were) and wanted them to heal me because odds were the sk or mafia would kill me that night and they did. Perhaps have the target button by your name and the cancel button would just cancel both target and control instead of two separate cancel buttons.

2. Mafia wants the witch dead early game. I was Godfather one round, and the consigliere found the witch. I did not want the witch to find the mafioso and start killing mafia, so i had the witch killed. Perhaps make it so if the witch has a mafia target another mafia a message like, "your target was unable to complete his task" come up. This could indicate that the other target was his fellow mafia or an escort blocked him to keep the anonymity of roles some what balanced.

I think with these changes the witch would be more fun.

Also this was brought up in another topic but the points for winning as a witch are low.

[Membrax]

1. I agree wholeheartedly. This is very frustrating when you know who the doctor is, and cannot benefit from it. Plus you hit two birds with one stone : town loses a heal and you are protected.

2. Definitely, witch is pretty hard to win with, but I'm not sure that's the right change. I think your 1st addition should be implemented, then we'll see if another minor boost/perk should be considered.

[McJesus]

1. Agreed 100%
2. You're just stupid. Yes the witch can hinder you but the witch wins with the mafia so smart witches will be on your side.

[Dark.Revenant]

Oh dear.

#1 is a bug/oversight, through and through. I had completely intended the witch to be able to target herself. I am DEFINITELY fixing this.

[Fred323]

I also find mafia want to kill the witch to stop witch killing off their guys even by accident. Maybe there should be a way to make the sides at least not slaughter each other as witch needs town to lose to win so ideally the guys witch wants to win dont kill witch.


2. You're just stupid. Yes the witch can hinder you but the witch wins with the mafia so smart witches will be on your side.

yes but mafia don't know who witch is and will just random kill witch, and witch doesnt know who mafia is and could just random kill mafia by directing an attack on them. There needs to be a way for them to collaborate.

[Afumba]

First suggestion is nice.

Second one... well i dont think needed.
I dont find it that hard to win with Witch... its easier as Arsonist and around the same as SK (if not same a bit better).
As she can side with any killer... once she knows who bad is... or got one... u can abuse this to ur advantage a lot.

So the doctor thingy might be fine... the rest is not needed as Witch works good enough.

[Supersun]

If I remember correctly, the witch can't actually win unless the Mafia, SK or Arson wins. I remember seeing a situation once where everyone ended up killing each other except the witch but the game said that nobody won even though the witch won because the town certainly didn't win.

Also, there's a small problem that the witch actually has to stay alive until the end to win but in a 3 person situation with 1 town, 1 witch, and 1 mafia/killer. There's NO incentive for the mafia/killer to vote for the town over the witch. Either way they win. I believe in Epic Mafia the game is actually called before this situation because if there's ever a time the mafia reach a certain number in relation to the town the automatically win (since it's assumed that the mafia can just vote out the rest of the town). Really the only way to bypass this as a witch is to force a mislynch for the town in a 4 person setting and then kill the last town during the night. Of course against anyone competent given the 2v1v1 nature and needing 3 votes. I'm not sure how to fix this but as it stands the witch winning relies pretty much ENTIRELY on the other party letting the witch win with them as there's no consequence to killing the witch and still winning when there's only a few people left in the game.

[Dark.Revenant]

That last part is DEFINITELY a bug. Thanks for telling me about this, I might not have known otherwise.

[Afumba]

Well i diagree with "the Wicth can only win if ppls let her"
Same could be said about survivor... He could side with mafia too...
The Witch can take a bit of action into this... whiles the Suvivor can not... for example.

All killers mostly dont want the witch dead... SK & Arso could need her help in midgame/endgame quiet a lot... and mafia as well if some of them already died or if the witch knows their shooter...
So the ability to side with any evil... balances her quiet well as every evil should try not to kill her as she is potential ally.

Witch is an awesome role as it is... and i like it that u have a lot of times sooo many choices of influencing things...
Its not only about winning but influencing :D

[Zack]

Witch should be able to keep going for the win even when alone (SK, Arso and Mafia all dead).

[Elixir]

As of 1.21 (GW), Witch ca should now be able to self target

[Supersun]

So yeah...today I played a game and it came down to 1 Witch, 1 Mafia, and 1 Town again. It was set to ballot and no one got sent to trial since the mafia decided to be a douche and vote for me as the witch while the town voted for the mafia and I voted for the town (and before you ask it should have been painfully obvious that I was the witch to anyone paying attention). It goes into the night and I think I have an easy win since all I have to do is control the mafia and kill the town...the mafia D/Ced during the night and in the morning....I win? Was it intended to give witch a victory if it's only witch and town left since town technically won by that point unless town is required to kill the witch now before winning (it wasn't before).

[Dark.Revenant]

Town loses all ties. Thus a 1v1 with the witch results in a Witch victory.

[Supersun]

That's nice. That actually inadvertently fixes both of my complaints.

I'm assuming now that The Witch is considered a separate evil party the town must kill the witch in order to win?

[Dark.Revenant]

That would be correct.

[Membrax]

That's nice to hear, witch is always a fun role to play with.
I wish more people in public games would know that the witch wins with mafia through :P