The Defense Thread

[Raiden]

I'd like to use this thread for the organization of our defense, in case we get accused, and to organize our last wills in case we end up dead.

Not much to say right now, but i suggest we don't tell any name in our last wills for this night. While it may draw some attention from the invests and framers, chances are that most people will exclude the claimed names from the De Luca family, in the end helping town and the other mafia. Perhaps not posting a lw will be the best choice, for now.

Do you approve of this organization method? If not, just disregard it and use the night threads.

[Zack]

I think I will adopt my cabbage loving self from the previous game, or maybe i'l switch to carrots this time, hehe. Either way i'm gonna act like an enraged self-centered citizen as before. That will also be my role-claim in case I am confronted. At worse a Mason will suicide on me, hopefully not one who leaves last wills ;)

If you are against this plan, feel free to say so.

As for last will, feel free to leave a flavour will, but nothing actually informative :P

[Raiden]

I loved your cabbage farmer performance from last game, you should definitely keep it going on. You might actually play an enraged farmer who was forced to fly from Delia 6 years ago, all accordingly to time and context. I agree that this will make you a target of preference for the mason, tho.

[Zack]

Masons can smash the cult, so maybe its better if masons don't die out early. On the other hand, if masons grow in huge unstoppable numbers by sheer unbelievable luck that can be bad too.

Still, its fun to perform, I shall do so again ;)

[TheJackofSpades]

I'd err on the side of caution, Zack. It's a good plan in theory, but metagame will probably be brought into it at some point(if the town doesn't get completely stomped again like last time).

I don't plan on claiming anything but citizen at the moment, but if it comes down to it we could always use the consig's knowledge to set up a pretty good investigator defense for any of us.

Aside from the obvious, you'd insert a dummy role for the first night(or offer up a dead role, and then name off every person the consig invested starting from night 1 and their role). That way, you're never in a spot where you're guessing when someone asks you who you investigated the night before, because you always have the information from that previous night's chat.

It's got one major flaw, which is that it's a bit inflexible in "clutch" investigator moments, like when people demand you investigate a certain person on the fly. Otherwise I think it's a pretty solid defense.

This is a good thread idea though.

[Raiden]

Well yes, now that there are 2 investigators, a fully believable counterclaim cannot be made. And with the 50% thing still operative, you can always claim that you found all citizens except that one guy who proves you correct (provided that i won't be cursed with extreme bad luck just as mrsmarter was). You could also use this kind of excuse when you are asked to check someone, while you check someone else instead.

This is a good idea, cheers for Jack. Maybe Zack could continue his performance without openly claiming that he's a citizen, at least in the beginning.

[Zack]

I wouldn't openly claim citizen. I said I would if confronted.

So you're saying the first one among us to be confronted should claim investigator?

[Raiden]

Well i think we should decide depending on the situation, but the possibility will be a useful asset. We'll just wait and share our intel before claiming any role and see if we can make up an investigator claim, or if it is better to just claim citizen and not draw too much attention from mafia and sk.

[TheJackofSpades]

This is a good idea, cheers for Jack. Maybe Zack could continue his performance without openly claiming that he's a citizen, at least in the beginning.


Thanks, I came up with it for use in actual sc2 mafia but I think it would be easier to pull off in this forum setting, because the information is easily found without speed needing to be a factor.

[Raiden]

So, assuming i will survive the night, i'm not sure that i can survive being lynched as well. I am now an almost guaranteed bad guy, the only thing i can do is press on to lynch Clawtrocity and hope we see the double sk kill, so that i can clear myself from the executioner accusations. I also gained a fair amount of credibility with MrSmarter possibily being framed. I cannot think of anything else to avoid tomorrow's lynch, and i am open to suggestions.

About my last will, i prepared something along these lines:

As you can see, my gamble as an investigator failed, mostly because of MrSmarter lynch. However, my claims were 100% accurate. The framed target was probably MrSmarter, meaning that Clawtrocity is indeed the Hooker. He is also refraining from claiming a role because he would be counterclaimed instantly, and he can’t claim citizen because he’s also afraid of masons.
He even started to believe me as an investigating role as soon as i accused him, and that is because he knew i was correct. He didn’t even consider the possibility that i was the executioner or jester before vornksr pointed it out, because he knew it couldn’t be. He didn’t want to vote me, because he feared the informations that would come from my death.
He is your best lynch target for tomorrow.

This should clear any MrSmarter voters from being GF, including you, and put the final nail on claw's coffin. Anything to add/edit?

[TheJackofSpades]

Nothing a whole lot, unless you can somehow figure out a way to leave a hidden message in there along the lines of "Sorry <Random Suspicious Person>"

[Raiden]

Shall i add "I am sorry it had to go this way. I couldn't avoid this fate, after all that has happened yesterday"?

Or something more subtle?

[TheJackofSpades]

More subtle, and shorter. Hidden messages used in that way are always very difficult. It's a balance between making it too easy where it's obvious that it's a setup and too hard where no one ever finds it.

I don't expect it to work. But in this situation, every little thing helps.

[TheJackofSpades]

In fact, a transition from a direct apology into a name + statement so it looks something like "I'm sorry for last night blahblahblah. <Player>, you've proved yourself a truly diligent towns person despite all odds."
So it can seen as two seperate statements or one statement if you look at it more closely.

Maybe this is too complicated though x_x

[Raiden]

Hmm. So you suggest that i write the name of a suspicious guy in my current last will to make it look like a good lynch/check target? This will be somewhat hard, i didn't interact with a lot of people despite all my rambling about clawtrocity. The most part of the conversations were going between me and monster or vornksr, and of course claw.

Let's see if i understood this correctly: "Also, i'm sorry about what happened yesterday. Vornksr, your strategy has been quite efficient after all."

[TheJackofSpades]

Hmm... maybe not. Nevermind! We'll just have to make the best of things. I will beast mode my way through this game. :D Solo GF ftw!

[Raiden]

Ok, i'll just keep my original lw then. Chances were that any name i included in it would be skipped entirely, anyway.

[Raiden]

I just thought that, since we will probably see the executioner effects by tomorrow, one of clawtrocity's teammates might take one of the newly open sheriff spots and try to clear him.
Alternatively, clawtrocity will probably claim doctor or armorsmith. I don't think the real guys will counterclaim, unless the doctor is already heavily armored and any other useful role to heal is dead or unclaimed.

If this is the case, the town will probably focus their attention on me, since i am the safest lynch, yet probably not the most useful.

If you have any advice against that eventuality, leave them here. I will be reading them tomorrow morning when i wake up.

(again, i will be missing the first couple hours of the day forum, i don't think too much will happen but i would really appreciate not to see the hammer vote on me by that time)

[TheJackofSpades]

Well, you could always say you found the cult leader and just take a stab at random. As long as it's reasonable, they'll probably put you off for a lynch for another day.

That's a tough situation to argue out of, the only other way I can think of is to lower the credibility of the person that does claim sheriff.

[Raiden]

So, uh... you haven't logged in yet, and i need to plan my last will before i go to sleep. I'll write down something while i hope you come here in the next few minutes.

I wondered a lot about revealing FalseTruth or not. His name is our only advantage in terms of knowledge, but then again i wouldn't really know how to use it if i die tonight. You couldn't just claim it without revealing that you are the GF.
If i expose him, though, it would mainly benefit the town, which is not something we actually aim at. Leaving him alive would mean another target to check, and his roleblock abilities might prove useful as long as they don't get you, which i think will be extremely unlikely for a long time. The fact that he is culted is even better, because he might choose to roleblock a mason sooner or later, and they are by far the greatest threat to you at the moment. You can always kill that hooker whenever you wish to.

After weighting the pros and cons, i think it is better that i don't expose him in my next last will. I might pick a random target and claim him to be the cult leader, perhaps one among the hard-to-read people. If we are lucky, we might get a town power role down this way. If not, no harm was done.

If i don't hear from you soon, i will expose Ganondorf as the cult leader. He didn't vote the sk, he actually asked for him to be left alive on purpose (!) and he has been posponing lynches both days. If this wasn't a bit too obvious, i might think he's the real cult leader, lol. Or the jester. But the jester wouldn't be a bad lynch either, as long as you don't hammer him it's a free kill for us.

[TheJackofSpades]

Yes, I apologize for not being around today. Some unforeseen circumstances intervened and I apologize for this. This will be fine. There's not much else I can say in this regard, should you survive do you plan on using the same codes as last day if you are lynched tomorrow?

[Raiden]

Don't worry, i think i learned a bit about your login habits, and i will almost always be here at this time.

Also yes i will be using the same code.

My latest lw was
"blahblahblah
also, i found the armorsmith
I wonder who the real hooker was? Well, at least the game is fairly more balanced than last time, i don't think the cult will have an easy going."

If you can understand it, i will be doing something pretty much like that.

[Raiden]

I thought of a plan we might use to discredit Narks authority and at the same time attempt to save Auckmid. Of course this will work only if all three of us survive, and it will be fueled even more if FalseTruth shoots an innocent. That way i can cast doubt on his pro-town claims, and then claim that Auckmid is not mafia.

If this works on at least 3 people, we might have a chance to extend the 2 KPN for one day, and make vornksr take all the blame for being the GF. I'm sure he and Auckmid will be happy to cooperate, and with our votes we are already at 4. Majority is at 7, and there is 1 afk citizen.

If this doesn't work, they will just lynch Auckmid and kill me shortly thereafter, unless i gained enough trust to receive a gun this night. Regardless of this, i will probably be lynched next day.


Take a look at this accusation post:





On night 2, I WAS roleblocked. If I didn't get roleblocked, wouldn't someone else have claimed to contradict me?


I wondered thoroughly about this, and last night, i thought of what reasons could there be for this to be true.


Do you remember when i said these words, day 3? I said there was only one possible reason for Narks not to be roleblocked. I was suspicious of his behavior after MileS claimed roleblocked, since those days he was the most popular town player and it could have made sense that he got roleblocked. Why would you roleblock an investigator when you have a proven sheriff around? There’s only one possible motive: he’s not a sheriff.

Then again, no one else claimed sheriff, and i started to wonder who the real sheriff could possibly be. At this point, i noticed vornksr never claimed his role. What I think it happened is that he didn’t believe Goonswarm to be a sheriff up to night 3, instead believing Narks, so he proceeded to investigate me and MileS meanwhile. Since he didn’t find out either of us to be mafia (because i am investigator and MileS is jester), he didn’t claim his role until now.

I wasn't sure about Auckmid being the romano mafioso, since MrSmarter found him to be a citizen, so i proceeded to investigate Narks, and in fact he turned out to be the last of the orange mafia. This is also the reason why he knew both Procyon and FalseTruth were Romanos (2 positive checks on 2? Without ever finding a DeLuca, even after i have been accused for centuries?). He probably relied on troll accusations (just like Spy did last day) hoping that the town would believe him. And we did. But it’s gg now.

vote Narks

vornksr, please contradict me if i am wrong. If i am correct tho, awesome performance. I thought you were a bad guy for most of the time.


This is an extremely hard call, but i can't see any harm done if we try. What do you say?

[Raiden]

Actually how much do we believe Spy and FalseTruth confessions? I wouldn't like another Spy case where i random accuse someone and it turns out he's the only guy i didn't want to lynch, or something like that.

[TheJackofSpades]

It seems like a solid accusation as long as people don't delve too deep or think too hard. So far no one has really shown that level of commitment to doing so, I mean it took us forever to lynch spy after he confessed backed by the other cult member.

At first by McPwnage's reaction to FalseTruth confessing I thought he was the last orange mafia, but this turned out not to be the case.

I don't think it's likely that they would lie to be honest, everything else they said was true.

[Raiden]

Yeah, well... what do we have to lose? I mean if they lynch me tomorrow it is actually in our best interest, if the alternative is killing the romano mafioso. And directing the guilt upon vornksr is also a good idea to me, as long as we don't hammer him.

If i don't receive a gun, i will try it. If i do... we will get a 2x kill anyway so it will not really be worth it.

I must make sure i post first tomorrow, or the bandwagoning will start. We'll see.

[TheJackofSpades]

Just in case, I will preparing a consigliere defense for myself. It will have the same basic premise as the investigator defense I outlined previously in this thread, but with three key points:
1) The person pretending to be the invest(consig)(the "gf") is completely undetectable to fellow sheriffs and investigator's counterclaims. And the "real consig" stays out of the spotlight which is the most volatile part of the consig pretending to be an investigator(i.e. being detected)
2) Goon had to be killed because the greatest distraction this game(you) would have been found out to be not guilty which would have made people more keen to actually being to concentrate on something other than whether or not you're consig
3) If they attempt to lynch me that day, much the same way as you could easily claim yourself, they will -very- easily be in danger of losing. They have no choice but to attempt to find and lynch the last romano.

This also has the bonus of drawing gunshots onto me instead of you. This depends on you living through tonight however. :D

[Raiden]

Hmmm this makes a lot of sense, and is to be considered, should i survive.

However I tought of another way out instead: what would happen if the masons recruit Ganondorf, leaving Illidan as the most likely to be GF?

You could counterclaim him as a citizen, and faceroll some masons the following night. Their majority is on the razor edge, one less player and they might be done for - you shall point out this in order to make sure to draw their attention on you.

I mean, assuming both me and Auckmid survive this night, town must be retarded if they choose not to lynch him. That means i will survive another day (lols to the Nth power) and we may attempt to block another gunshot, which will probably come from SAS - or maybe vornksr will target Rumpel or Yayap tonight, effectively wasting his action.
Or you may even get the gun, if vornksr WIFOMs very badly. If that's the case, i don't think you should reveal anything at any cost, because at that point we basically won.

In the end it all depends on who survives this night, and where the items will go. We need to think this thoroughly, revealing yourself as a DeLuca could be extremely dangerous as long as there is at least 1 citizen unmasoned.

[TheJackofSpades]

Yes, I agree. We could use this one though when it becomes closer to the end of the game. It is very plausible, almost brilliant in design, and will make them have to coinflip who to use their gun on if it comes down to the wire.

This game has been very fun, I just hope everyone appreciates the true brilliance of our play when the curtain finally falls.

[Raiden]

Yes, I agree. We could use this one though when it becomes closer to the end of the game. It is very plausible, almost brilliant in design, and will make them have to coinflip who to use their gun on if it comes down to the wire.

This game has been very fun, I just hope everyone appreciates the true brilliance of our play when the curtain finally falls.


We should definitely use that strat as soon as there are no more citizens spot, or if illidan gets recruited this night. The fact that i left out some of the names, and that i was never investigated will fuel it even more.

Also well, considering that we started with 2 people because of a random night 1 shot, even if we don't win we accomplished something which i never expected to be able to. This game shall be carved in the history of mafia forever.

[TheJackofSpades]

If they try and vote you after Auckmid, you could maybe use a defense along these lines:
You've been sympathetic to the town the whole time hoping to get lynched while the town still had the advantage, but you've realized now that this is no longer the case. Admit that your only real success(spy) was a lucky guess(which it was), you accused claw because he was such a big player in the game that if you were wrong about him you'd be guaranteed a lynch. You were bluffing day 2 when you said you had a high priority cult target and that your whole plan concluded by making a stark contrast between trust and betrayal by accusing Narks of being mafia when he clearly wasn't, securing your lynch.

Unforunately this didn't happen because higher priority targets kept coming up. But you don't want the town to lose at the expense of your victory out of pity, and that the real consig is likely MileS.

[Raiden]

Logic is correct, although we should think of a way in order to make town come to that conclusion. If i just tell them when i am the most likely lynch target, it is an obvious lie.

Here's what i think: i admit i am consigliere and claim my investigation results, with some additions to make them look bullshit but not too obviously.

Night 1: i checked clawtrocity and he was romano
Night 2: i checked MileS and he was investigator
Night 3: i checked Spy and he was cult leader
Night 4: i checked vornksr and he was citizen
Night 5: i checked illidan and he was citizen

or something like that, and then see what happens. I will play as if i gave up the game. I wonder if they are even willing to make the connection, or if they'll just buy that without thinking. I will also claim the real investigator is MileS and not SAS, and then vote him.

Anyway this will also prove useful in case we decide to use your strat, don't you think? It will look like i am not really the consigliere... if they are mindblown enough. You can't be sure of anything with this town.

[Raiden]

On a completely unrelated situation, in which i don't survive this night, take a look at this last will:

By the way, the jester is illidan. I investigated him night 2, and i exploited his role to gain credibility and votes for my lynches. He seemed very happy to comply :) i appreciate that, but now i need my GF to win please.

What would you think by reading it?

[TheJackofSpades]

Well as long as the masons don't recruit him tonight, could be okay. He's clearly not the jester so it's the flawed logic that would incite ideas that he's the gf, but it seems slightly uncharacteristic of you.

[Raiden]

Hmm... maybe i should just let them think whatever they want and stick with the no-names policy. I will edit that, i don't like it anymore. I'll just hope they don't recruit him.

[Raiden]

I'm also not sure about the jester strategy. At that point, the best course of action for a jester would be to shut up and let the town lynch. Would this cast the doubt over you if i never post again? I don't really like that kind of behavior, but i wonder if it will help us in the long run.

[TheJackofSpades]

If they actually see that they are in huge danger of losing, desperation will override reason I'd think. I think the jester defense might work if you make it clear you're acting of sheer pity and that the victory isn't worth much to you. Emotions are hard to predict but are very effective ways of manipulation.

I mean, it's worth a shot.

[TheJackofSpades]

Let me be clear; the jester defense I proposed is you basically giving up the game because you don't want to see the remaining town be extremely embarrassed when they lose by lynching you(because it's giving the mafia a free kill). You've been trying to win the whole game by helping the town while still being lynched before they lose majority.

If anything, it will possibly divide the remaining town and take the focus off of everything but you and miles yet again.

I think it's our best bet of keeping MileS from disrupting the balance of the vote. But if you don't feel comfortable with trying it out, it's ultimately up to you. We can discuss it more after tomorrow if we're still alive.

[Raiden]

Ok, i will trust you :) your style of playing has been awesome up to now and you proved that you have a lot more experience than me in these kind of situations. I know it will be an extremely hard call, but i shall try. It's not like my suggestion had any more credit anyway, it will be an almost impossible attempt.

Depending on what happens tomorrow i might try it at once or the following day, we'll see. I will send my action and last will now, and enjoy my sleep (both in-game and irl).