Stalker

[Joey]

Stalker

Mafia/Support

Abilities: Stalk somewon learning who they visit. Or stalk somewons house learning who they are visited by.

Passive Abilities: Can target self.

Can target other mafia.

Goal: Defeat the town the cult and every other killer that opposes you.

Options: becomes mafioso if alone on/off
Applys both abilities to target on/off
1 Night betreen stalkings on/off

This role acts as a mafia tracker mafia can use it to find power roles on key targets, such as watching a mayor to locate bgs/docs.

[Damus_Graves]

So its a mafia lookout? Consig can find doctors and lookout and power roles

[Glip]

Stalker

Mafia/Support

Abilities: Stalk somewon learning who they visit. Or stalk somewons house learning who they are visited by.

Passive Abilities: Can target self.

Can target other mafia.

Goal: Defeat the town the cult and every other killer that opposes you.

Options: becomes mafioso if alone on/off
Applys both abilities to target on/off
1 Night betreen stalkings on/off

This role acts as a mafia tracker mafia can use it to find power roles on key targets, such as watching a mayor to locate bgs/docs.

A combo mafia-aligned lookout/detective into one role? I like it, although I'm not sure if it would be balanced in terms of power or not. Especially if it's allowed to apply both abilities at once to the target.

[Nick]

How does that help mafia hide and kill more effectively?

5454

[Damus_Graves]

I think this would be better if made to hide a target rendering them untargetable by anyone other than mafia

[Voss]

I think this would be better if made to hide a target rendering them untargetable by anyone other than mafia

doesn't that scream mafia though?

HHM IM A CHECK THIS GUY. OH I CAN'T TARGET HIM. OH THE STALKER TARGETED HIM. HE MUST BE MAFIA. LYNCH.

kinda like that.

[creedkingsx]

This is mad useless. It sounds cool but it is completely unnecessary. Mafia doesn't need investigative roles to clutter the randoms.

[Glip]

This is mad useless. It sounds cool but it is completely unnecessary. Mafia doesn't need investigative roles to clutter the randoms.

It's not mad useless.

Mayor reveals day 1 in game without MM. Says he can be healed, doc/bg on him. Mafia sets stalker on Mayor, all of a sudden they know the identity of any pleb doctor/bg that targeted the mayor.

Or Sheriff/Invest reveals themselves. Track them, again find bg or doc.

Or set Stalker to track a player. If that person dies to veteran, now you know who the veteran is. If the person that person targeted claims roleblocked, you have a good idea who the escort is. If the person targeted is killed by SK, you have a good idea who the SK is. If the person targeted claims witched/doused/annoyed/healed/is shot by vig, etc., you get the picture. If the tracked person doesn't visit anyone, you know they're not a PR that you have to worry about.
All these could also work for looking out on a person that claims any of those.

Set stalker to lookout on your GF. If your GF gets witched, now you know who the witch is. If your gf is attacked, you know who the SK/Vig is. If your gf didn't show up to night chat/got executed, now you know who the jailor is.

And more.

[Voss]

putting it that way, thats pretty fkin useful

[Gingerape]

Glip 1
Creed 0

[Nick]

A [ ] [ ]
B [ ] [ ]
C [ ] [ ]

Left button for tracking, right button for observing.

"Detectives" and "lookouts" cannot be fully trusted anymore.

[Lazers]

underpowered

[Ash]

How does that help mafia hide and kill more effectively?

5454
WIFOM, because lookout/detective SOMETIMES can be easy to confirm, especially late-game.

@Lazers - how is it underpowered?

[Nick]

underpowered

Or make it 2-in-1, tracking AND observing targets so that it's as good as Consigliere.

[Glip]

"Detectives" and "lookouts" cannot be fully trusted anymore.

This too. Currently, anyone who claims det/lookout and gives an accurate result is confirmed town. Investigators do not share this same luxury.

SC2 Mafia needs moar WIFOM.

[Gingerape]

underpowered

yea lazers. wtf. lazers. explain. -vote lazers.
lazers. explain. wtf. lazers.

[creedkingsx]

It's not mad useless.
And more.

I'd rather have a Janitor or consig. What might be assumed as a doc or BG, could be a jester or witch. Then you decide to kill them directly and now wasted a kill or lost an ally.
Mafia has Consig, it is the only investigative role that could be useful. Anything else can be figured out through observational skills. someone pm'ing a mayor suddenly as soon as night ends, mayor saying he trusts x and y, things like that. Especially easy in pub games.

[Glip]

What might be assumed as a doc or BG, could be a jester or witch. Then you decide to kill them directly and now wasted a kill or lost an ally.


While this is true for the sheriff/invest case, a witch wouldn't witch a mayor. But I see your point.

However, this cannot apply in cases where claimed feedback messages are concerned.

If you're looking out on that sheriff and only one person visits him and he claims he was annoyed/witched, now you know who not to kill.

[creedkingsx]

While this is true for the sheriff/invest case, a witch wouldn't witch a mayor. But I see your point.

However, this cannot apply in cases where claimed feedback messages are concerned.

If you're looking out on that sheriff and only one person visits him and he claims he was annoyed/witched, now you know who not to kill.

A Witch can witch a Mayor. There are situations where this role might be useful but more where it would be useless, imo. Pretty much all the other roles will be more useful almost all the time.

[Glip]

A Witch can witch a Mayor. There are situations where this role might be useful but more where it would be useless, imo. Pretty much all the other roles will be more useful almost all the time.

And a Godfather is more useful than a mafioso almost all the time.

It's about balance, not about being powerful. If we're only going to allow roles that are extremely useful all the time, why do citizens exist? Why do mafiosos exist when a Godfather can do the same job, only better?

You should also consider the WIFOM aspect that the Stalker would add to the game as well, in providing a counterpart to the detective/lookout that will give townies more reason to not be so blindingly trusting of them.

[Lazers]

yea lazers. wtf. lazers. explain. -vote lazers.
lazers. explain. wtf. lazers.

uhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh

[Damus_Graves]

doesn't that scream mafia though?

HHM IM A CHECK THIS GUY. OH I CAN'T TARGET HIM. OH THE STALKER TARGETED HIM. HE MUST BE MAFIA. LYNCH.

kinda like that.

WIFOM worthy right ^.^

but points to Glip for seeing the usefulness.

[creedkingsx]

And a Godfather is more useful than a mafioso almost all the time.

It's about balance, not about being powerful. If we're only going to allow roles that are extremely useful all the time, why do citizens exist? Why do mafiosos exist when a Godfather can do the same job, only better?

You should also consider the WIFOM aspect that the Stalker would add to the game as well, in providing a counterpart to the detective/lookout that will give townies more reason to not be so blindingly trusting of them.

Mafioso make the Godfather immune to Lookout and Detective. Mafioso take shots from bodyguards and Vigilantes, similar to a citizen.
Detectives and Lookouts don't need legitimate counterparts because they can't always produce effective results as is, or they just die lol.
Bringing an underpowered, unnecessary role into a game that requires a person who makes little to no money to script and balance, not to mentioned moving around investigative pairings, rework randoms, and create as a whole is an extremely inefficient use of time.

[Fallacy]

Oppose.

1) Following role is consigliere.
2) The combination of detective and lookout in one role is overpowered.
3) Stalkers generally operate alone of personal obsession.

[Xen]

PROTOSS OP

[Chane]

I agree with glimp

Also if I claim lookout or detective day1 its to easy.

I would rather have stalker then janitor because most of my janitors suck...

[creedkingsx]

Because most of your Janitors suck, you'd rather have a useless role?

[Fatalis]

Because most of your Janitors suck, you'd rather have a useless role?
On topic= +1, why would you have a useless role..
Off topic= Chane are you like, posting in every thread that haven't been active for more than 3 days...

[Chane]

On topic= +1, why would you have a useless role..
Off topic= Chane are you like, posting in every thread that haven't been active for more than 3 days...

I am offering my opinion/support/critisism to any suggestion or discussion I deem interesting.

Fyi when I am able to use a pc instead od phone ill try to post more longer and comprehensive replies to revert a recent rep-nuke.

On-topic: I still think stalker > janitor because 95% of all janitors clean upur first 3 kills which leaves me as gf less effective. I'd take stalker over jabitor any day

[creedkingsx]

Janitor confuses town. That is all that is important. It leaves TONS of room for lying. Consig is hardly needed, it jsut offers a bit of guidance with the kills. But the most important part of Godfather, above all else, is simply killing.

[Nick]

Janitor useless? Pubs don't use graveyards I guess...

Stalker is useful for identifying power roles. If you make it detective-lookout, will be comparable to or better than consigliere.

[maccabbe]

I like this role, he can gather information based on who visited important players, behave like detective to gain the confidence of town, and he can also watch mafia members to accuse players after they invest mafia but before they get their accusations out the next day. Not to mention screw with spys who think mafia can't visit other mafia members.