Replaces Mason Leader should guarantee a Mason Leader

[Dr. Cheis]

If Mason is picked via Random, and no Mason Leader is picked via Random, you can end up with Masons with no purpose or ability. I propose that in the event Random selects one or more Masons but no Mason Leader, one of the Masons becomes the Mason Leader if the "Replaces Mason Leader" option is checked.

Otherwise, include a second checkbox under Mason for "Always have Mason Leader."

I played a few builds go where I was on a team of 2 masons but no Mason Leader. We were effectively citizens who knew eachother's identities. If this has already been changed, it escaped my notice.

[Raptorblaze]

Agreed.

[Voss]

+1 to this idea.

[Chane]

this can be put strait to the display case I imagen. there is no reason not to.

+1 all the way.

[Raptorblaze]

this can be put strait to the display case I imagen. there is no reason not to.

+1 all the way.

I'm stealing this for R&D

[Chane]

I'm stealing this for R&D

Ö

OT: Op please put up a poll if you want. it reflects it quite well.

[Dark.Revenant]

No.

A guaranteed spawn of Mason Leader when Masons spawn is utterly imbalanced in most setups. Chance of Cult Victory = about 10% of what they would have had. Chance of Town Victory = about 50% higher. You see, two or three (up to 4+ if you recruit citizens) GUARANTEED TOWN makes it extremely difficult for the Mafia to win. They either have to specifically target the Masons or they can't possibly defeat their voting power. Two Masons is more manageable and doesn't really hurt the Mafia that much because most Mason players are retarded, but when a ML is thrown in things are different.

Plus it would be a somewhat of a bitch to code.

[Ps2 Xtreme]

No.

A guaranteed spawn of Mason Leader when Masons spawn is utterly imbalanced in most setups. Chance of Cult Victory = about 10% of what they would have had. Chance of Town Victory = about 50% higher. You see, two or three (up to 4+ if you recruit citizens) GUARANTEED TOWN makes it extremely difficult for the Mafia to win. They either have to specifically target the Masons or they can't possibly defeat their voting power. Two Masons is more manageable and doesn't really hurt the Mafia that much because most Mason players are retarded, but when a ML is thrown in things are different.

Plus it would be a somewhat of a bitch to code.

A very valid point. I think looking at it from a non-mason point of view makes it clear that things are fine the way they are.

[Techies]

No.

A guaranteed spawn of Mason Leader when Masons spawn is utterly imbalanced in most setups. Chance of Cult Victory = about 10% of what they would have had. Chance of Town Victory = about 50% higher. You see, two or three (up to 4+ if you recruit citizens) GUARANTEED TOWN makes it extremely difficult for the Mafia to win. They either have to specifically target the Masons or they can't possibly defeat their voting power. Two Masons is more manageable and doesn't really hurt the Mafia that much because most Mason players are retarded, but when a ML is thrown in things are different.

Plus it would be a somewhat of a bitch to code.

I also want the OP's suggestion to be implemented.
Lets quickly rethink the role of a Mason Leader:
1. The mason leader can have only one mason buddy. It's not a cult where they try and convert as many townies as possible.
2. If that buddy dies, he can try and find a citizen to replace him with.
3. If the Mason leader dies, it becomes the duty of the other mason to find a citizen to become his new buddy. I
4. If you already have mason buddy, convert is disabled.

It should never be about trying to outnumber the cult...
Also 100% guaranteed cult is a lame setup, it's much more fun if you don't know they are there.

[EliteMarine]

Who even has saves these days with mutliple cits anyway for ML to recruit. I keep ONE citizen in my save just so there is a possibility of a ML spawn and every game someone complains about it.

[Dr. Cheis]

No.

A guaranteed spawn of Mason Leader when Masons spawn is utterly imbalanced in most setups. Chance of Cult Victory = about 10% of what they would have had. Chance of Town Victory = about 50% higher. You see, two or three (up to 4+ if you recruit citizens) GUARANTEED TOWN makes it extremely difficult for the Mafia to win. They either have to specifically target the Masons or they can't possibly defeat their voting power. Two Masons is more manageable and doesn't really hurt the Mafia that much because most Mason players are retarded, but when a ML is thrown in things are different.

Plus it would be a somewhat of a bitch to code.

I'm not sure I followed that explanation, but I haven't personally played Mason Leader yet so I'm not going to pretend to understand the nuances of the role. All I know is when I get mason and there's no mason leader I feel kind of useless. Perhaps the additional checkbox to guarantee a Mason Leader if Masons are rolled, instead of folding that option into "Mason Replaces Mason Leader." Good setups would have that disabled most of the time due to the situation Dark.Revenant described, and it would default to off.

[Slaol]

Can no one be content with the guaranteed knowledge of a role on the list, the voting block, and the ability to have a more effective PM role call?

[Ambient]

No.

A guaranteed spawn of Mason Leader when Masons spawn is utterly imbalanced in most setups. Chance of Cult Victory = about 10% of what they would have had. Chance of Town Victory = about 50% higher. You see, two or three (up to 4+ if you recruit citizens) GUARANTEED TOWN makes it extremely difficult for the Mafia to win. They either have to specifically target the Masons or they can't possibly defeat their voting power. Two Masons is more manageable and doesn't really hurt the Mafia that much because most Mason players are retarded, but when a ML is thrown in things are different.

Plus it would be a somewhat of a bitch to code.

THIS.

I am tired of hearing about people wanting power roles. Two masons also will also be RANDOM about 99% of the time. Masons will take up to 50% of the random town roles (excluding the old ADV town randoms). Making it incredibly easy to spot a lie.. that is if you actually read role list and graveyard.

[Guardian]

THIS.

I am tired of hearing about people wanting power roles. Two masons also will also be RANDOM about 99% of the time. Masons will take up to 50% of the random town roles (excluding the old ADV town randoms). Making it incredibly easy to spot a lie.. that is if you actually read role list and graveyard.

No one includes citizens in pub setups anymore because..
..Because they utilize the invest to find the GF


*But mostly because citizen = psi storms........

[Mugy]

I can't see this affecting any setup except for cult saves. If anything having a mason leader will disadvantage the masons because he can potentially reveal his identity to the mafia.

[Chane]

keep in mind pubs hate citizen more then they hate their godmother

[Dr. Cheis]

Can no one be content with the guaranteed knowledge of a role on the list, the voting block, and the ability to have a more effective PM role call?

Very good point. A single mason however is useless in this regard, and I would prefer in my save, if a game creates a single mason and no mason leader, that mason becomes mason leader.

[Slaol]

Very good point. A single mason however is useless in this regard, and I would prefer in my save, if a game creates a single mason and no mason leader, that mason becomes mason leader.

100% sure there is no way for a single Mason to spawn.

[Cryptonic]

100% sure there is no way for a single Mason to spawn.

100% wrong

[Cryptonic]

Solo Masons are occasionally possible using the new random stuff. Too fucking bad that it's nigh impossible to fix.

there u go

[Slaol]

there u go

Well, damn. I was a large fan of the new randoms, not sure anymore. Solo Mason has got to be the worst random possible.

[Damus_Graves]

Use two town core.
exclude citizen?

[kyle1234513]

the best we can do for sneaking in citizens into our saves is have 1 or 2 town cores and dont ever highlight the box to show that i have exclude masons checked off and the exclude citizen box not checked off.

also i agree with DR about cult being underpowered in a game with even 1 mason leader.

i also agree with the original post that a mason replaces mason leader should in fact make at least 1 mason a mason leader at the start of the game. otherwise theres no point to having that checkbox in the first place if there can never be a mason leader.

[Ambient]

THIS.

I am tired of hearing about people wanting power roles. Two masons also will also be RANDOM about 99% of the time. Masons will take up to 50% of the random town roles (excluding the old ADV town randoms). Making it incredibly easy to spot a lie.. that is if you actually read role list and graveyard.

Reposting.. Stop post farming.