Debate: Normal Voting vs. Secret Ballot

[EliteMarine]

Which do you prefer and why?

I'll start by saying that I much prefer the secret ballot for the following reasons.

1. The random lyncher: Ever play a game where not too much is happening and it's time to vote and no one makes a move, and then out of nowhere somone just votes teal for no reason and then someone else click his name and then a train of players follow suit. Yeah, no bueno.

2. Works for Blackmailers: What good is it to blackmail the sheriff or investigator only to have them spam the color of a potiential evil during the voting process and all town follows suit. You have lots alot of power with that role when communication can still occur via voting.

3. No Set Votes to Trial: With ballot style you do not have to have X amount of votes to trial someone. So if you have that one or two players who are AFK, then they cannot hold up the voting process. Everyone who votes are accounted for and the player with the most votes goes to trial.

4. More Suspense: Personally, it adds more suspense whenever know one knows who is voting who. I just like it that way. With regular voting, there is no suspense, espcially when 3 people vote for Blue and the last 2 people are voting for blue because they see their color popping on in the chat of people wanting to vote him. No fun, imo.

So lets your side.

[JoeyButler]

I agree with the 1st reason alot, people just vote what the first vote was or majority and it leads to soooo much random lynching. That's why I like the secret ballot as well.

[BROrange]

My change in save also included the secret Ballot. I use 4 Mafia in my save plus one random neutral. The rest are town, which makes this setup more focused against Mafia.

[ALL HAIL CTHULHU]

Which do I prefer? okay.

ALL HAIL CTHULHU has voted

[JoeyButler]

4 mafia? That's a little rough usually I got with 3 mafia, and with a random neutral that could be SK it gets chaotic.

[Gingerape]

I use
Secret Ballot w/o Trial
all mad

[Lazers]

Normal Voting
Pros:
Multiple trials in a day (if allowed)
Bandwagoning (this is actually a huge help if you're sheriff/mayor)
You can properly defend yourself BEFORE being lynched/going to trial
Generally setups with normal voting have a longer day time, allowing for more WIFOM and shit if you don't lynch someone right off the bat
Cons:
Random lynching (although this is partially present in ballot, too)
Hard to get a lynch if you have AFK players
Sucks if you're blackmailer (spam voting pretty much tells everyone someone is BM'd)

Ballot
Pros:
Easier to get lynches, especially in situations like 3v4 (allows the smaller team to still be able to lynch)
Suspense I guess
Blackmailer heaven
Less random lynching
Cons:
A shitload less town coordination in most cases
Long days (sometimes)
Other shit

I think they're about the same, tbh. The bigger debate is between trial and no trial

[Damus_Graves]

Lazers, your list of pro's and con's is wrong imo.

their the same its just one you know who is voting and one you dont.

[cookies4you]

I prefer secret ballot. Although it pisses people off, it removes most of the stupidity that goes on in the day.

Bah bah vote sheep

[Lazers]

Lazers, your list of pro's and con's is wrong imo.

their the same its just one you know who is voting and one you dont.

Which makes a huge difference

also you only get to trial once for ballot

[AppleyNO]

I have to admit, in secret ballot it is easy to tell everyone that I am BMed.

Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone

Random Player: Appley is BMed guys!

[Lazers]

I have to admit, in secret ballot it is easy to tell everyone that I am BMed.

Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone
Appley has voted to try someone

Random Player: Appley is BMed guys!

True, but for some reason when I play BM on secret ballot almost no one ever does that

[cookies4you]

True, but for some reason when I play BM on secret ballot almost no one ever does that

It's because you always BM afk's.

[Lazers]

It's because you always BM afk's.

always?

[Damus_Graves]

only when the inves/sheriff/jailor/lookout/detective people arent saying leads

[Chane]

I love the ballot but for some reason when pubs see it they call "shit setup" "retard host" "OMG NOT PLAYING THIS SHIT(disconnect)"

[Damus_Graves]

I love the ballot but for some reason when pubs see it they call "shit setup" "retard host" "OMG NOT PLAYING THIS SHIT(disconnect)"
You are all to correct on this.

[creedkingsx]

Secret Ballot is always better.
Fixes everyone's stupid complaint on blackmailed people giving leads still.
Prevents lynch trains.
Prevents AFK gamethrows.
Can prevent normal gamethrows.

[FrostByte]

Secret Ballot is always better.
Fixes everyone's stupid complaint on blackmailed people giving leads still.
Prevents lynch trains.
Prevents AFK gamethrows.
Can prevent normal gamethrows.
That's the problem.
Starting a lynch train = legit strategy. Period, bottom line, end of story. It's an integral part of mafia.

sc2maf =/= sc2maf without lynchtraining.

[FrostByte]

Lazers, your list of pro's and con's is wrong imo.

their the same its just one you know who is voting and one you dont.
YOU
DO NOT
NEED
APOSTROPHES
FOR PLURAL NOUNS.

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cryptonic]

I hate when town tries to skip days. It's always better to random someone onto the stand, gets information flowing

[Damus_Graves]

I hate when town tries to skip days. It's always better to random someone onto the stand, gets information flowing

untill they guilty the person put up for fun and facepalm when he reveals he actually was an investigator

[Dark.Revenant]

Your one of them grammar nazi's, FrostByte. Their is no place for you hear.

[Damus_Graves]

Your one of them grammar nazi's, FrostByte. Their is no place for you hear.

I +1 you sir.

[creedkingsx]

Your one of them grammar nazi's, FrostByte. Their is no place for you hear.

This post bugs me so much...
but I laugh at the intentionalness of it. lol

[Kovath]

What about those secret ballot times when someone gets voted to trial because he has 3 votes on him and everyone else only has 2

lol

[creedkingsx]

What about those secret ballot times when someone gets voted to trial because he has 3 votes on him and everyone else only has 2

lol

Same system they have when voting a President lol.
Everyone can have less as long as someone has more. lol

[Auckmid]

When playing as town, classic hands down because it's way more effective. Random trialing does not by any stretch of the imagination equal random lynching. If the game is going slowly, trial a random lurker, listen to their deffence. If the deffence is good, inno, re-trial. If it's horrible, lynch. Repeat to you have your target. This style of scumhunting makes jester wins easy, but still the most effective, much more so then "Do nothing 'till we have a Sheriff claim".

Despite what all you newbs out there think, if you do a realy bad job of disguising the fact you're anti-town, you can't start raging over getting killed by a "lucky random lynch". It's your own fault for not doing a good enough job of blending in.

[Kovath]

When playing as town, classic hands down because it's way more effective. Random trialing does not by any stretch of the imagination equal random lynching. If the game is going slowly, trial a random lurker, listen to their deffence. If the deffence is good, inno, re-trial. If it's horrible, lynch. Repeat to you have your target. This style of scumhunting makes jester wins easy, but still the most effective, much more so then "Do nothing 'till we have a Sheriff claim".

Despite what all you newbs out there think, if you do a realy bad job of disguising the fact you're anti-town, you can't start raging over getting killed by a "lucky random lynch". It's your own fault for not doing a good enough job of blending in.

Playing as town 101:

Role like bus driver or doctor: Lurks all day, not a single vote on self whole game

Gets investigator/sheriff: Tries to lead town, gets lynched day 2

YOLO

[Voss]

Your one of them grammar nazi's, FrostByte. Their is no place for you hear.

+1 as well

[McKinley]

Secret ballot is the only true way to vote.

Any other way is just silly.

I like being disguiser, getting someone on trial via one vote, and then disgusing next night when I lynch sheriff.

[Voss]

what i do, is set it to secret ballot, and put 6 minute day length. this way, you can only move onto a real trial if the person is actually called out and people are paying attention to whos geting called out and why. not just that they see pretty colors on the screen. i try to make people more proactive in the game. ANNDD if they cant get everyone to get the required votes to put someone on trial, they see who isnt voting and whos holding up the ballot. then those aflers seem very scummy.

[Kovath]

what i do, is set it to secret ballot, and put 6 minute day length. this way, you can only move onto a real trial if the person is actually called out and people are paying attention to whos geting called out and why. not just that they see pretty colors on the screen. i try to make people more proactive in the game. ANNDD if they cant get everyone to get the required votes to put someone on trial, they see who isnt voting and whos holding up the ballot. then those aflers seem very scummy.

Insta-massquit.

[Damus_Graves]

Insta-massquit.

Instant no patience alert.
It's an interesting idea to say the least. however with full lurkers the game would never seem to end

[Damus_Graves]

Doesn't a little '-' show up besides a person's name signaling that they voting in a secret ballot?

[Voss]

Insta-massquit.

no patience at all. i only need a couple of complainers to ruin the game. but if no one complains, game works beautifully.


Doesn't a little '-' show up besides a person's name signaling that they voting in a secret ballot?

yes.

so if you're waiting for someone to be lynched, that means no one has over half, and someone hasn't voted. 'that not voting guy sure seems scummy.' and 'why didn't that person vote for who he said he'd vote for?'

[Lazers]

So yeah I tried a setup with secret ballot voting + trial, played two games with it

Half the fucking days were ties and the rest were pointless trials where the guy was put up for little reason other than one guy screaming his name. Maybe ballot works in inhouse games but in pubs they suck shit it seems

ima stick to majority

[Damus_Graves]

no patience at all. i only need a couple of complainers to ruin the game. but if no one complains, game works beautifully.



yes.

so if you're waiting for someone to be lynched, that means no one has over half, and someone hasn't voted. 'that not voting guy sure seems scummy.' and 'why didn't that person vote for who he said he'd vote for?'

based on this information. it would be easy to see if someone is bm spamming.

[Voss]

based on this information. it would be easy to see if someone is bm spamming.

isn't it teh same? i think its easier to see if its on majority.

[JoeyButler]

So yeah I tried a setup with secret ballot voting + trial, played two games with it

Half the fucking days were ties and the rest were pointless trials where the guy was put up for little reason other than one guy screaming his name. Maybe ballot works in inhouse games but in pubs they suck shit it seems

ima stick to majority

Yeah I am going to have to agree with you on that one, people scream other people's names to get their point across.

[Damus_Graves]

I believe it is easier in secret ballot. Due to the town being a little bit more quiet.

[McKinley]

Secret ballot is more useful when you put into the setups a lot of neutrals, three member strong mafia, and power-heavy town roles with limited, pre-selected detective roles. A subtle Sheriff/investigator would use the secret ballot system plus PM network to put up suspected/confirmed scum roles, keeping their role a secret.

[FrostByte]

Your one of them grammar nazi's, FrostByte. Their is no place for you hear.
I USED YOU AS AN EXAMPLE IN MY GRAMMAR AND LANGUAGE THREAD, MS. DR. YOU SHOULD READ IT BEFORE I CHOP YOUR NUTS OFF PLS.
http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/11233-READ-THIS-THREAD-RIGHT-NOW?p=180641#post180641

[kyle1234513]

i would like ballot voting more if it didnt say "such and such has voted"