New Role: Cult Leader

[maccabbe]

Role Name: Cult Founder
Description: The creator of the cult and their leader
Alignment: Cultist
Ability: Prayer shield
If there are no living cultists the Cult Founder is immune at night. If there are living cultists and if Cult Founder is attacked at night a random cultist dies.

Host Options:
Excluded from random: (true/false)
Wins tie against mafia if alone: (true/false)

Sheriff Reports: Your target is a member of the cult!
Investigator Reports: Leader of men (Mason Leader, Mayor, Godfather, Cult Founder)

Notes:
Cult Founder is not replaced by cultist upon being lynched.
The Cult Founder is notified if he is attacked the same as any other immune role, even if he sacrifices a cultist.
The attacker will only be notified of immunity if there are no cultists.

Metagame:
In mafia/cult games the mafia could no longer kill off cult first night, which almost always means the town wins.
In addition this would help cult since cult could not get wiped out before attempting to recruit someone.
The cult could fool invests into thinking they're the mason.
If mason leader attempts to recruit Cult Leader either he kills a cultist he didn't target or calls out that cult founder is immune at night... to a mason leader.

[EliteMarine]

Seen this one a couple of times now.

I personally don't see a problem with a Cult Leader, but so far, it has never been considered for being implemented.

[JoeyButler]

Sounds good, cult is just like Masons but evil and with a Cult Leader it sounds good.

[ALL HAIL CTHULHU]

Adds some nice WIFOM to mayor, too.

Leader of men is usually a 100% town indicator when it pops up as invest.

[EliteMarine]

Adds some nice WIFOM to mayor, too.

Leader of men is usually a 100% town indicator when it pops up as invest.

+1

This needs to be done!

I forgot why people were against Cult Leader before.

[Fatalis]

I love how he sacrifice someone else when he is attacked ^ ^

[MissingNo]

I love how he sacrifice someone else when he is attacked ^ ^

I think this part is actually not so good. I can easily see that maf will attack him, a diff cult will die and they will see that their target didn't die but another cult did. Therefore the target is cult.

"Hey guys im sheriff, x is cult (leader)"

Now 2 cult die and the mafia gains some town trust.

[Chane]

I think this part is actually not so good. I can easily see that maf will attack him, a diff cult will die and they will see that their target didn't die but another cult did. Therefore the target is cult.

"Hey guys im sheriff, x is cult (leader)"

Now 2 cult die and the mafia gains some town trust.

WIFOM

[Avadhuta]

I think this part is actually not so good. I can easily see that maf will attack him, a diff cult will die and they will see that their target didn't die but another cult did. Therefore the target is cult.

Looks good. But I offer different behavior.
When Cult Leader is atacked, he disguise himself as one of cultists. :) So cult leader will stay invulnerable and anonymous.

[Chane]

Looks good. But I offer different behavior.
When Cult Leader is atacked, he disguise himself as one of cultists. :) So cult leader will stay invulnerable and anonymous.

that's a great idea! but it must be a host-option or it will be OP as hell

[maccabbe]

I think this part is actually not so good. I can easily see that maf will attack him, a diff cult will die and they will see that their target didn't die but another cult did. Therefore the target is cult.

"Hey guys im sheriff, x is cult (leader)"

Now 2 cult die and the mafia gains some town trust.

This is the reason why cult gets a message whenever he is attacked. If a killer calls out cult leader then cult leader can call out gf for attacking him. In addition it is suspicious if a player calls out cult leader after cultist dies. And on his deathbed the cult leader can even claim the player who called him out was immune to conversion.

Also, the killer does not get an immunity message if a cultist dies instead of cult leader. This means there is the possibility of a bus driver and witch switching targets.


Looks good. But I offer different behavior.
When Cult Leader is atacked, he disguise himself as one of cultists. :) So cult leader will stay invulnerable and anonymous.
The cult does not really need a buff so cult leader is built so he can both hurt and help his team. If he changed places then he would be too strong and, as chane noted, cult would be OP. My intention with cult leader is to bring cultist onto even ground with roles that are immune at night without buffing cult. Personally I hate games where sk or cult dies n1.

[gaspiden]

Looks decent, but yeah I think I've already seen this one before. The only problem is with the night immunity of cult leader, it basically means he can continue recruiting every night without fear of death. This can screw up town big time since cult will be able to permanently recruit (unless there's lynch) and thus waste a lot of their valuable roles like invest, sheriff, etc. I believe there's a reason cult leader hasn't yet been implemented, could be OP. Also the as someone already mentioned, if someone attacked cult leader and saw someone else died, well it becomes obvious who cult leader is.

I'll add this to the poll though. Be interesting to see what others think.

[maccabbe]

Looks decent, but yeah I think I've already seen this one before. The only problem is with the night immunity of cult leader, it basically means he can continue recruiting every night without fear of death. This can screw up town big time since cult will be able to permanently recruit (unless there's lynch) and thus waste a lot of their valuable roles like invest, sheriff, etc. I believe there's a reason cult leader hasn't yet been implemented, could be OP. Also the as someone already mentioned, if someone attacked cult leader and saw someone else died, well it becomes obvious who cult leader is.

I'll add this to the poll though. Be interesting to see what others think.

Thanks

[MissingNo]

Looks good. But I offer different behavior.
When Cult Leader is atacked, he disguise himself as one of cultists. :) So cult leader will stay invulnerable and anonymous.

I agree this is a great idea.

However, I would then change cult leader to not being invulnerable at night and instead have it be "if at least one other cultist, changes place with the cultist instead of dying". Then if hes alone he isn't invulnerable.

[MissingNo]

This is the reason why cult gets a message whenever he is attacked. If a killer calls out cult leader then cult leader can call out gf for attacking him. In addition it is suspicious if a player calls out cult leader after cultist dies. And on his deathbed the cult leader can even claim the player who called him out was immune to conversion.

Also, the killer does not get an immunity message if a cultist dies instead of cult leader. This means there is the possibility of a bus driver and witch switching targets.



Why would anyone necessarily believe the cult leader? They could say the same thing about a real sheriff who discovers them.

The killer can also use a death note the next night.

[Damus_Graves]

It's not a bad idea.
However i would suggesting only having the Cult Leader having one time use immunity.

Mason Leader isnt night immune if there are no other masons

Why should the Cult leader?
yes i know their on a team by themselves but they can quickly dominate a game if they play smartly

[ALL HAIL CTHULHU]

To fix dieing on first night before any cult have been converted problem:

Cult leader:

-While alive, cult convert occurs before killing occurs

(and get rid of all the immunity stuff)

[Avadhuta]

The cult does not really need a buff so cult leader is built so he can both hurt and help his team. If he changed places then he would be too strong and, as chane noted, cult would be OP. My intention with cult leader is to bring cultist onto even ground with roles that are immune at night without buffing cult. Personally I hate games where sk or cult dies n1.

This will not be OP in any way. What is difference between "Cult Leader's death" and "Cult Leader's disguise"? It ONLY affect, which player will stay alive. And nothing more. This feature will make Cult Leader more significant in terms of personal player abilities. Good cult leader will rape town and mafia, bad cult leader will die despite all his abilities. Currently, if first cultist die, his converted followers must survive independently. But with auto-disguise Cult Leader can direct all cult untill win or total defeat.

We also can exclude "solo immunity" option, but add "conversion happens first at night" feature. This will give cult leader chance to survuve "first night" atack by recruiting other player. Also, we can limit quantity of possible disguises, to make game balanced.

[maccabbe]

Currently Dark.Revenant does not believe that cult should have roles added. This is probably because as long as cult survives n1 the cult is balanced with the other teams. To add a role to cultist that is a complete improvement over cultist would unbalance the game.


This will not be OP in any way. What is difference between "Cult Leader's death" and "Cult Leader's disguise"? It ONLY affect, which player will stay alive. And nothing more. This feature will make Cult Leader more significant in terms of personal player abilities. Good cult leader will rape town and mafia, bad cult leader will die despite all his abilities. Currently, if first cultist die, his converted followers must survive independently. But with auto-disguise Cult Leader can direct all cult untill win or total defeat.

We also can exclude "solo immunity" option, but add "conversion happens first at night" feature. This will give cult leader chance to survuve "first night" atack by recruiting other player. Also, we can limit quantity of possible disguises, to make game balanced.

You are correct, there is no difference between "Cult Leader's death" and "Cult Leader's disguise". However compare cult leader death, disguise, and shield. In the vanilla scenario if cultist is attacked he dies. In the disguise scenario if cult leader is attacked he dies and takes the place of cultist but the only affect on the game is that a cultist has died. However in the sheild scenario if cult leader is attacked and a different cultist dies then the attacker has evidence who cult leader is in addition to killing a cultist. In essence the shield ability is a liability and is worse than a normal cultist death.

Since the shield ability is a liability we can now afford to give cult leader an ability with positive effects. My proposed idea was immunity at night.


To fix dieing on first night before any cult have been converted problem:

Cult leader:

-While alive, cult convert occurs before killing occurs

(and get rid of all the immunity stuff)
I kind of like this suggestion. However if this ability is the only one added then the cult has been buffed without any negative side effects. If the cult leader gets this ability plus shield then I actually believe that the cult would be nerfed overall so I'm not going to use this for now.



It's not a bad idea.
However i would suggesting only having the Cult Leader having one time use immunity.

Mason Leader isnt night immune if there are no other masons

Why should the Cult leader?
yes i know their on a team by themselves but they can quickly dominate a game if they play smartly

Giving a cult leader a vest would be a complete improvement. On the other hand if the cult leader gets this ability plus shield then the cult would be nerfed overall, either way the cult would be unbalanced.

As to the second part the cult doesn't kill masons he tried to recruit, masons can't recruit townies other than cit, cults don't win with town, and masons do win with town. Arguing that they should be kept as similar as possible is silly because they are already quite different.