M-FM April Fools! [Game Thread]

[Voss]

Except Gyr was replaced this morning by ccantman. Why would I waste a bullet on someone about to be modkilled? Though it seems unlikely all three will be used. Like Fury, I'm sure I have a target on me at this point.

okay i'm backing off of this. that kind of makes sense. i guess its not a great jump to think that since ika was modkilled, that you would think gyr would actually be replaced.

my point was that i or funce or unknown would have been good shots last night by you. well not me, obviously, but from the game's perspective, i would have been a good shot.

[Sino]

Thanks for joining us Iced.

Sorry for the delay, I had a long day.

Btw, am I the only one who found Grommor way too defensive early in the day?

[PowersThatBe]

ALSO FURY HAS TRIED TO STOP EVERY MISLYNCH THAT TURNED OUT TO BE TOWN.

[Fury]

I'm say, how do you know the BG was saving Fury

NOt that we had a BG, but both targeted Fury

Step 1: I got attacked
Step 2: I didn't die since BG saved me
Step 3: I got feedback
Step 4: I announced I got feedback and no one else claimed.

Also, I pushed Fire and all day and he attacked me that night. Trine even figured out I got protected before I even woke up.

[Voss]

Sorry for the delay, I had a long day.

Btw, am I the only one who found Grommor way too defensive early in the day?

i dont like being called out as scum for something i'm trying to do to help town (especially as town).

[MattZed]

@MattZed , are you gonna modkill afk people the same way you did yesterday?

Dealing with inactives really are on a case-by-case based on activity in day chat, activity in possible night chats, and any private conversations I may have had about them being active in the future. However, if someone posts literally 0 times D3, you can expect a modkill or replacement.

[PowersThatBe]

Vigilante kills come after neutral killing kills, which come after Mafia/Triad factional kills.

WE HAVE TO FIND THE SK

[Sino]

i dont like being called out as scum for something i'm trying to do to help town (especially as town).

How is being overly defensive helping town?

[ccantman]

Why are you excluding the possibility of having a sk?

I'm not, in fact my logic is that we do have an SK

N1) GF/SK/DH attack, one of the targets was yzb who got Witch doctored healed
This is why we only had 2 deaths N1.

N2)
Gf/Sk and DH Attack
DH and Bondyguard kill each other
GF and SK still kill

This is why we have 4 deaths N2

If this is the case, I think Fury is a SK and not a Vig as yzb's death wasn't a vig shot, but a sk kill

In the case that yzb was already a WD (if the setup started with two) then there was no save N1, in which case this follows Fury's story more that he shot yzb to be the extra kill and Sino is lying

[PowersThatBe]

I'm not, in fact my logic is that we do have an SK

N1) GF/SK/DH attack, one of the targets was yzb who got Witch doctored healed
This is why we only had 2 deaths N1.

N2)
Gf/Sk and DH Attack
DH and Bondyguard kill each other
GF and SK still kill

This is why we have 4 deaths N2

If this is the case, I think Fury is a SK and not a Vig as yzb's death wasn't a vig shot, but a sk kill

In the case that yzb was already a WD (if the setup started with two) then there was no save N1, in which case this follows Fury's story more that he shot yzb to be the extra kill and Sino is lying

STOP THERE WERE NOT 3 KILLS DAY ONE. STOP WITH THIS LINE OF THINKING. PLZ

[ccantman]

Step 1: I got attacked
Step 2: I didn't die since BG saved me
Step 3: I got feedback
Step 4: I announced I got feedback and no one else claimed.

Also, I pushed Fire and all day and he attacked me that night. Trine even figured out I got protected before I even woke up.

I missed that you said you got feedback of being attacked

[Fury]

WE HAVE TO FIND THE SK

SK may not even be in the game though. It could just be a Godfather (potentially with mafia allies). If we get rid of SK, then that reduces the deaths each night by 1. If we find GF, then it may not change.

Regardless, I think it is correct to find GF/SK. The scariest world is a mafia + triad coexisting.

[ccantman]

STOP THERE WERE NOT 3 KILLS DAY ONE. STOP WITH THIS LINE OF THINKING. PLZ

So then you believe we started with two Witch doctors in the set up, and the first Witch doctor did not save the second witch doctor?

If this is what we believe, then

-vote sino

[Trine]

Honestly if I wasn't vigilante, Fury's claim would make complete sense. I won't rule out the possibility that there aren't two of us and that NK isn't one of the players that have been inactive/shit posting most of the game, but without knowing the setup there's no way to know for sure. He was definitely protected by BG from DH so he's not triad.

If he's not vigi, SK makes sense as we've seen no evidence of a mafia faction. It would make sense to try and get triad players killed if he's NK.

[Sino]

I'm not, in fact my logic is that we do have an SK

N1) GF/SK/DH attack, one of the targets was yzb who got Witch doctored healed
This is why we only had 2 deaths N1.

N2)
Gf/Sk and DH Attack
DH and Bondyguard kill each other
GF and SK still kill

This is why we have 4 deaths N2

If this is the case, I think Fury is a SK and not a Vig as yzb's death wasn't a vig shot, but a sk kill

In the case that yzb was already a WD (if the setup started with two) then there was no save N1, in which case this follows Fury's story more that he shot yzb to be the extra kill and Sino is lying

You seem more sure about Fury being the potential sk than Sino, why is this? Using your logic, they both could be.

[PowersThatBe]

CURRENT TPR CLAIMS:

MARSHALL --- TRINE (CONFIRMED)

SHERIFF --- SLAOI

MASON --- SIAOL

VIGILANTE --- FURY (CC W/ SINO)

VIGILANTE --- SINO (CC W/ FURY)

MASON LEADER --- ALRIGHT (CONFIRMED)

VETERAN --- FRED/SP (CONFIRMED)

BODY GUARD --- SIAOI (CONFIRMED)

[Voss]

How is being overly defensive helping town?

what you think i said.

"Im helping town because I'm being defensive"

what I actually said:

"I wanted to get another train to run along side firebringer. (this is where I'm [trying] to help town). I get called out as scum as trying to defend firebringer. I got defensive."

you're welcome.

[Trine]

Other NK roles are arsonist, which seems unlikely, and Mass Murderer. Is it possible that, if Fury is NK, he visited Stealth (citizen) who the WD also visited and killed both? Would WD have saved and converted stealth in this instance?

[Voss]

Other NK roles are arsonist, which seems unlikely, and Mass Murderer. Is it possible that, if Fury is NK, he visited Stealth (citizen) who the WD also visited and killed both? Would WD have saved and converted stealth in this instance?

probably not because of order of operations.

[ccantman]

You seem more sure about Fury being the potential sk than Sino, why is this? Using your logic, they both could be.

This comes down to, Do you think N1 there was or was not an attempted 3rd kill?

Since there were two witch doctors, I think one saving a doctor to make a second witch doctor follows how the deaths of N1 and N2 and match the rolecards.

If this was the case, there was 3 kill attempets on both N1 and N2, and as such, fury didn't Vig kill yzb, he SK killed yzb after failing N1 due to N1 witch doctor heal.

but this is only under the assumption there was only 1 witch doctor to begin with.

IF we started with two witch doctors, then there was only 2 kill attempts N1, in which case the follow up of fury adding a Vig kill follows suit and sino is lying.

True I missed that in both cases sino could still be lying.

But if Fury is Vig, while posible, i doubt we have two vig.
And if Fury is SK, then sino clamin vig is still possible

[Fury]

All I know is that I didn't shoot n1. Mattzed said WD wasn't a unique role, so the game could have spawned with more than 1. In fact, him saying it was not a unique role leads me to believe that.

Additionally @ccantman , if you think I am SK and shot YZB (he was saved and converted to WD), then why the fuck would I shoot him a 2nd time?

[Trine]

SK may not even be in the game though. It could just be a Godfather (potentially with mafia allies). If we get rid of SK, then that reduces the deaths each night by 1. If we find GF, then it may not change.

Regardless, I think it is correct to find GF/SK. The scariest world is a mafia + triad coexisting.

If there is a second mafia faction (give the number of players in the game, this is entirely possible) then it's possible triad is already eliminated (2 triad, 2 mafia?)

[PowersThatBe]

CITIZEN CLAIMS


SLAOL
GROMMOR
FUNCE
ICED MONO
CCANTMAN



NO CLAIM

UNKNOWN

[Fury]

Ccantman, your posts are riddled with assumptions. You assume I am SK and then assume I would attack the same target twice? Why? Then, you ignore the post of Mattzed about it not being a unique role(unique roles can only spawn 1 per game).

[PowersThatBe]

CURRENT TPR CLAIMS:

MARSHALL --- TRINE (CONFIRMED)

SHERIFF --- SLAOI

MASON --- SIAOL

VIGILANTE --- FURY (CC W/ SINO)

VIGILANTE --- SINO (CC W/ FURY)

MASON LEADER --- ALRIGHT (CONFIRMED)

VETERAN --- FRED/SP (CONFIRMED)

BODY GUARD --- SIAOI (CONFIRMED)

I should add MASON AND SHERIFF HAVE NOT BEEN CC'D

[Fury]

Also, I shot n2 and only 3 deaths happened. I didn't shoot n1 and only 2 deaths happened. If game didn't start with 2 WD, then 3 evil killings exist and shot n1. Then, 2 evil killings shot n2. The 3rd evil killing went afk. I can't think of a role where an evil killing would afk.

[Trine]

CITIZEN CLAIMS


SLAOL
GROMMOR
FUNCE
ICED MONO
CCANTMAN



NO CLAIM

UNKNOWN

Not to distract from our current discussion, but I would like to see @Unknown1234 claim a role at this point.

[ccantman]

All I know is that I didn't shoot n1. Mattzed said WD wasn't a unique role, so the game could have spawned with more than 1. In fact, him saying it was not a unique role leads me to believe that.

Additionally @ccantman , if you think I am SK and shot YZB (he was saved and converted to WD), then why the fuck would I shoot him a 2nd time?

Possible Reasons why:
You really wanted him dead
After failing N1, but seeing a WD death, you could kill him again, and defend your shot in that you hit scum, gives a good alibi to hide behind

Good reasons? Not the best, but could justify a second attack.

Im for either scenario in which we started with 1 WD or 2. I'm just saying based on which scenerio we are in, changes who is guilty, and then the logic that I got to that guilty person based on the given information

[PowersThatBe]

Say the 3 unconfirmed TPR roles up there are possible then we have 7 citizens (if 14 town)

3 are dead, only 4 citizen claims are legit

if we had 13 town then we have only 3 citizen claims


If by some magic sino is telling the truth. Then we had 8 tprs and and 6 citizens (3 now)

or 8 and 5 and now only have 2 citizens and the majority of citizen claims are scum.

[Sino]

what you think i said.

"Im helping town because I'm being defensive"

what I actually said:

"I wanted to get another train to run along side firebringer. (this is where I'm [trying] to help town). I get called out as scum as trying to defend firebringer. I got defensive."

you're welcome.

That's not the way I see it, you got defensive as soon as day 3 started, even when no one called you out.

did i really push a lynch on the bodyguard? or was that another slaol.

and i'm reallllllly wishing i said something about RLVG. Dont know if that'd have helped me or not, but i wish i did.

What good is there in wishing you'd have acted differently?

This comes down to, Do you think N1 there was or was not an attempted 3rd kill?

Since there were two witch doctors, I think one saving a doctor to make a second witch doctor follows how the deaths of N1 and N2 and match the rolecards.

If this was the case, there was 3 kill attempets on both N1 and N2, and as such, fury didn't Vig kill yzb, he SK killed yzb after failing N1 due to N1 witch doctor heal.

but this is only under the assumption there was only 1 witch doctor to begin with.

IF we started with two witch doctors, then there was only 2 kill attempts N1, in which case the follow up of fury adding a Vig kill follows suit and sino is lying.

True I missed that in both cases sino could still be lying.

But if Fury is Vig, while posible, i doubt we have two vig.
And if Fury is SK, then sino clamin vig is still possible

I'm thinking yzb was healed day 1, if I was in a double WD cult, I'd always heal my teammate.

[Trine]

Ccantman, your posts are riddled with assumptions. You assume I am SK and then assume I would attack the same target twice? Why? Then, you ignore the post of Mattzed about it not being a unique role(unique roles can only spawn 1 per game).

To be fair, assuming there were two WD at the start just because Matt said they aren't unique is an assumption unto itself. Matt has been purposefully vague about role settings and game setup.

[PowersThatBe]

Possible Reasons why:
You really wanted him dead
After failing N1, but seeing a WD death, you could kill him again, and defend your shot in that you hit scum, gives a good alibi to hide behind

Good reasons? Not the best, but could justify a second attack.

Im for either scenario in which we started with 1 WD or 2. I'm just saying based on which scenerio we are in, changes who is guilty, and then the logic that I got to that guilty person based on the given information

STOP FURY IS TOWN. STOP.

[ccantman]

Also, I shot n2 and only 3 deaths happened. I didn't shoot n1 and only 2 deaths happened. If game didn't start with 2 WD, then 3 evil killings exist and shot n1. Then, 2 evil killings shot n2. The 3rd evil killing went afk. I can't think of a role where an evil killing would afk.

This is only the case if your a vig.

but if your an SK and the game didn't start with 2 WD, then 3 evil kills exist and 3 shot N1 and 3 shot N2, the 3rd evil never went afk, because you would be the 3rd evil and did your shot.

Ccantman, your posts are riddled with assumptions. You assume I am SK and then assume I would attack the same target twice? Why? Then, you ignore the post of Mattzed about it not being a unique role(unique roles can only spawn 1 per game).

If the witch doctor was unqiue, a witch doctor saving a doctor created a cult.
If its not unique, a witch doctor saving a doctor creates a witch doctor.

That was my interpreation of what he said

[Sino]

Actually,

@MattZed Does the Witch Doctor conversion by healing still go through if they are attacked the same night?

[Trine]

If this wasn't sc2mafia based I would expect more citizens than TPR, but given the meta of sc2mafia, I am more inclined to believe that there are more TPR, especially with cult and NK/2nd Mafia faction. But again, I have no idea if Matt had balance in mind when he designed this setup.

[PowersThatBe]

Sure the game could have been.

Sino as cult
Other guy as wd

Sino recruits yzb who was doc and becomes wd
WD dies
Sino recruits ccantman or something to that effect.


Or the mason slaol recruits other slaol and sino some how a wd is born. IDK.

I dont think it works. I think there were two cults.

[ccantman]

STOP FURY IS TOWN. STOP.

Why in your mind is it impossible for Fury to be an SK? I gave a very plausible scenario in which he may not be town. Its something we need to be aware of.

But as I said, if Fury is Vig, then its Sino and if your 100% on Fury being town, then the lynch is Sino

[Trine]

If the witch doctor was unqiue, a witch doctor saving a doctor created a cult.
If its not unique, a witch doctor saving a doctor creates a witch doctor.

That was my interpreation of what he said

That was my first thought as well. Two witch doctors seems very... unorthodox. But if there are two WD, I'm more inclined to believe two vigilantes. Perhaps Matt thought having more TK roles would make it easier for WD to convert?

[PowersThatBe]

Why in your mind is it impossible for Fury to be an SK? I gave a very plausible scenario in which he may not be town. Its something we need to be aware of.

But as I said, if Fury is Vig, then its Sino and if your 100% on Fury being town, then the lynch is Sino

ONCE AGAIN IF FURY WAS SK, 1. HE WOULD NOT HAVE TRIED TO PULL US OFF OF TOWN LYNCHES. 2. HE WOULD NOT FUCKING CC A VIGI CLAIM IN WHICH HE WOULD BE LYNCHED THE VERY NEXT DAY.

[PowersThatBe]

That was my first thought as well. Two witch doctors seems very... unorthodox. But if there are two WD, I'm more inclined to believe two vigilantes. Perhaps Matt thought having more TK roles would make it easier for WD to convert?

MAYBE THAT'S WHY YOU MADE THE CLAIM YOU MADE, SO YOU COULD MAKE US BELIEVE TWO VIGIS WERE POSSIBLE SINCE TWO WDS WERE POSSIBLE.

[Fury]

Possible Reasons why:
You really wanted him dead
After failing N1, but seeing a WD death, you could kill him again, and defend your shot in that you hit scum, gives a good alibi to hide behind

Good reasons? Not the best, but could justify a second attack.

Im for either scenario in which we started with 1 WD or 2. I'm just saying based on which scenerio we are in, changes who is guilty, and then the logic that I got to that guilty person based on the given information

Ok fair enough that it is possible, but it makes no sense to me. Also I'd like to think I'm a better player than to go off of

You really wanted him dead

As for this one:

After failing N1, but seeing a WD death, you could kill him again, and defend your shot in that you hit scum, gives a good alibi to hide behind

But why would Voss heal YZB of all people? The guy posted virtually nothing in day 1. WD's aim for high priority targets as they really want to heal someone.

Basically what I'm saying is that your "possible reasons" are valid, but they are extremely unlikely. So unlikely as to warrant them as being poor assumptions. Coming from a math/stats background, I can say you have to choose which assumptions you work off of. If you can't even defend your own assumptions, then they are bad.

[Voss]

my idea is for fury to shoot sino, and we direct sino's kill. if sino is alive tomorrow we lynch him/her. so we dont have to talk about fury vs. sino and maybe lynch funce instead.

what do people think of this idea? i'd like to move topic away from sino and fury and back to the citizens.

[Fury]

Why in your mind is it impossible for Fury to be an SK? I gave a very plausible scenario in which he may not be town. Its something we need to be aware of.

But as I said, if Fury is Vig, then its Sino and if your 100% on Fury being town, then the lynch is Sino

@ccantman , read my above post.

Definition of plausible:
plau·si·ble
ˈplôzəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: plausible

(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable

Your reasons were not probably true nor reasonable.

[PowersThatBe]

what do people think of this idea? i'd like to move topic away from sino and fury and back to the citizens.

WHY B/C SINO IS UR SCUMMATE? lol

[Voss]

lol yeeahhhhhhh i want fury to shoot my scummate. yup. this exactly.

[Fury]

what do people think of this idea? i'd like to move topic away from sino and fury and back to the citizens.

Considering I found DH by finding inconsistencies during discussion/reading emotions in responses, I'm willing to sit down and chat for a few min with ccantman. Ignoring him would be a bad idea.

[PowersThatBe]

SET UP SPEC

22 people =

14 town
3 cult
2 triad
2 mafia
1 amnesiac

--------------

14 town
2 cult
2 triad
2 mafia
1 amnesiac
1 neutral something else (arsonist so troll LOL)

----------------

14 town
4 triad
2 cult
1 amnesiac
1 NK

last one is most likely.

[Fury]

YZB had 7 posts day 1. I counted.

I thought April Fool's swapped our user profiles around, but Trine's still the same. Suspicious af

-vote Trine

I leave for a day and there's 10 pages of flamewars. I just wanted to play some FM for the first time but hooooly shit this is something.

-vote powersthatbe

Lets get an actual game going, please.

-vote alright

I got roughly 15 mins before I hit the sack, after which I'll just vote to skip unless prompted otherwise. Anything you wanna direct to me do so now or I'll be seeing you in ~14 hours or so

To avoid spamming a wall of his posts, I'll stop. But there were 7 in total and they were mostly useless.

Ccantman believes this man was a high priority target, as WD's only target people likely to die. Anyway, I don't really want to address this anymore. I think this post closes the case on ccantman.

[Fury]

I'm going to grab food, be back in an hour.

[PowersThatBe]

@Fury how many shots does ur vigi have total?