S-FM 226: Which Witch is Which

[God Emperor Trudeau]

bro, you're missing the point. I'm not telling you the read is correct. I'm telling you it wasn't a slip!!! He was clearly not randomly stating he didn't know whether the cit claims were lying!

But why make that point at all. The only person on his list was the one he null read, and then he slips in btw he was anti town by giving this 4th citizen role claim, 5 minutes before I ruin that claim and take the 5th slot. So his point about it outing the tpr is wrong, and not a point at all, and to add (unless someone was lying) seems to indicate that he wasn't confident that ika's claim was actually outing tprs.

which it actually wasnt b/c ika didnt believe we were town when he made the point, and I dont think he believed sinon at that point either.

[Trine]

it also didnt give away tpr's because trine was going to claim 5th spot. The point doesn't make sense.

He also didn't really hard claim until after trine soft claimed.

Trine also only hard claimed after you counted her/him as citizen. @ladyguass

I hard claimed after you said 'oh wait you didn't deny it' or whatever after i had implied being citizen. Which I think was before LG. Let me see if I can find the post.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

like do you not realize trine literally repeated people, gave most of us on their list a town read, and the person we were considering lynching at that time is null read with a huge freaking red flag in the middle.

I mean c'mon. Then they claim the 5th citizen spot making all of the citizen claims irrelevant.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

I hard claimed after you said 'oh wait you didn't deny it' or whatever after i had implied being citizen. Which I think was before LG. Let me see if I can find the post.

no LG claims you were citizen,

I said, trine never said they were citizen

then you didnt deny it

then I said welp they're the 5th spot

then you said yeah I didnt hard claim and gave ur reasons.

[Trine]

But why make that point at all. The only person on his list was the one he null read, and then he slips in btw he was anti town by giving this 4th citizen role claim, 5 minutes before I ruin that claim and take the 5th slot. So his point about it outing the tpr is wrong, and not a point at all, and to add (unless someone was lying) seems to indicate that he wasn't confident that ika's claim was actually outing tprs.

which it actually wasnt b/c ika didnt believe we were town when he made the point, and I dont think he believed sinon at that point either.

What ika believed at the time doesn't matter, I was passing that on what people had claimed before then.

[Lady Gauss]

you're basically asking if i am town power, yeah?

In the name of Jesus YES why are you delaying it.

[Lady Gauss]

it also didnt give away tpr's because trine was going to claim 5th spot. The point doesn't make sense.

He also didn't really hard claim until after trine soft claimed.

Trine also only hard claimed after you counted her/him as citizen. @ladyguass

Jeez looeeez!

Imagine for a moment we are not aware Ika has already claimed citizen (like Trine). Imagine we just read that post by Ika.

Now, imagine we are trying to see the game from Ika's perspective, and presuming he is citizen. If he is citizen, claiming citizen and filling the 4th slot locks in where the TPRs are (assuming, as Trine stated in the original post, that the cit claims were true). This is not something Ika would want to do if he is citizen, which implies he isn't citizen!

I'm not trying to make you agree with the argument. I'm saying that, if faced with trying to assess which is more plausible:

-Trine was making the above argument, which makes sense in context

-Trine slipped by forgetting there were more cit claims than cits (?)

Clearly you should select the first rather than the second as what he was trying to say!!!

You're trying to argue two separate points at once - 1) he slipped 2) this argument is bad anyway. You're missing the pointtttt!!!

[Trine]

no LG claims you were citizen,

I said, trine never said they were citizen

then you didnt deny it

then I said welp they're the 5th spot

then you said yeah I didnt hard claim and gave ur reasons.

No I implied it in a previous post, let me see... Post #276

Arguing that 'defending yourself is a waste of time' seems silly. I mean, claiming a non-scum role is a defense, even if you can't prove it. It's better than nothing. Sharing your reads on other people can also help. Instead of giving up because you don't like your role, why don't you help figure out who the witches are? Share your suspicions. I don't like being citizen either, it's not as fun, but it's better than not playing at all.

I didn't come right out and say I was citizen in that very moment, because I wasn't trying to betray our PRs to the witches once I realized other people had already claimed cit.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

Jeez looeeez!

Imagine for a moment we are not aware Ika has already claimed citizen (like Trine). Imagine we just read that post by Ika.

Now, imagine we are trying to see the game from Ika's perspective, and presuming he is citizen. If he is citizen, claiming citizen and filling the 4th slot locks in where the TPRs are (assuming, as Trine stated in the original post, that the cit claims were true). This is not something Ika would want to do if he is citizen, which implies he isn't citizen!

I'm not trying to make you agree with the argument. I'm saying that, if faced with trying to assess which is more plausible:

-Trine was making the above argument, which makes sense in context

-Trine slipped by forgetting there were more cit claims than cits (?)

Clearly you should select the first rather than the second as what he was trying to say!!!

You're trying to argue two separate points at once - 1) he slipped 2) this argument is bad anyway. You're missing the pointtttt!!!

Ok sheriff, you point us in the right direction. And if trine turns out to be scum, feel dumb.

[Lady Gauss]

Nvm, if people don't switch votes you're going down Trine.

[Lady Gauss]

No I implied it in a previous post, let me see... Post #276



I didn't come right out and say I was citizen in that very moment, because I wasn't trying to betray our PRs to the witches once I realized other people had already claimed cit.

Yeah, I took that post as being a cit claim, which is why I said "gg" in reply.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

No I implied it in a previous post, let me see... Post #276



I didn't come right out and say I was citizen in that very moment, because I wasn't trying to betray our PRs to the witches once I realized other people had already claimed cit.

i knew that was a soft claim, I said you didn't claim b/c I didn't want this shit to happen, but then you went and hard claimed anyway.

[Trine]

At the time I wrote that I hadn't yet gone back and reread every post so I didn't know how many cit claims there were. I just knew that there was some.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

trine, me, ika, and LG all knew what the post meant. Ika confirmed his cit status after. I'm sure he was capable of picking up the soft claim.

So if you think about it, he was actually the 5th claim.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

At the time I wrote that I hadn't yet gone back and reread every post so I didn't know how many cit claims there were. I just knew that there was some.

OH right, so you just go around soft claiming willy nilly but then call ika out for being the "4th" cit claim, when you were actually the 4th.

[Lady Gauss]

trine, me, ika, and LG all knew what the post meant. Ika confirmed his cit status after. I'm sure he was capable of picking up the soft claim.

So if you think about it, he was actually the 5th claim.

I thought we were already in agreement that trine was the 5th claim?

[Trine]

trine, me, ika, and LG all knew what the post meant. Ika confirmed his cit status after. I'm sure he was capable of picking up the soft claim.

So if you think about it, he was actually the 5th claim.

Right. And I hard claimed because I thought that late claiming cit (cause I certainly wasn't going to claim a PR and either get myself or a legit PR lynched) would be worse. Maybe that was wrong of me.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

I thought we were already in agreement that trine was the 5th claim?

no by their own admission they softed their claim before ika claimed.

If ika read the soft claim, and picked up on it, he would have claimed his role to beat a cc for the 4th spot.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

Right. And I hard claimed because I thought that late claiming cit (cause I certainly wasn't going to claim a PR and either get myself or a legit PR lynched) would be worse. Maybe that was wrong of me.

why would you claim pr if you aren't tpr. this argument makes no sense.

[Stereo]

In the name of Jesus YES why are you delaying it.

yes

[Lady Gauss]

no by their own admission they softed their claim before ika claimed.

If ika read the soft claim, and picked up on it, he would have claimed his role to beat a cc for the 4th spot.

Sorry I misunderstood. What post did Ika claim cit in again?

[Trine]

OH right, so you just go around soft claiming willy nilly but then call ika out for being the "4th" cit claim, when you were actually the 4th.

Again, at the time I didn't know how many people had claimed. When I wrote my 'read wall' it was after I had reread everything I missed.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

Right. And I hard claimed because I thought that late claiming cit (cause I certainly wasn't going to claim a PR and either get myself or a legit PR lynched) would be worse. Maybe that was wrong of me.

Let me rephrase. If YOU KNEW you soft claimed. WHY would YOU, call IKA out for being the 4TH claim, making it look bad. WHEN YOU actually intentionally breadcrumbed your cit role, making you the 4th cit claim and 5th hard claim.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

Sorry I misunderstood. What post did Ika claim cit in again?

I quoted it

[Trine]

why would you claim pr if you aren't tpr. this argument makes no sense.

Well if I didn't claim citizen, it would be assumed I was a witch or a pr. And if I waited until people were demanding a PR step forward I would have had to claim cit late which I assumed would look worse.

[Trine]

I thought Ika had already claimed citizen. That's why in my post I said, "I hate being citizen too" as in, I assumed he was citizen and was just giving up because he didn't want to participate as a powerless role. This was back when he was saying 'fine lynch me whatever' and I've seen a lot of players do that when they end up as citizen.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

I thought Ika had already claimed citizen. That's why in my post I said, "I hate being citizen too" as in, I assumed he was citizen and was just giving up because he didn't want to participate as a powerless role. This was back when he was saying 'fine lynch me whatever' and I've seen a lot of players do that when they end up as citizen.

Yeah I just checked, I got the sequence out of order.

[Trine]

When I wrote that post, I only knew that you had claimed citizen from glancing at the first page, and I thought Ika was as well.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

ok for arguments sake, me, lg, ika, and trine are actually citizens.

that leaves sinon and ccantman

who do we lynch?

[God Emperor Trudeau]

-vote sinon

[Lady Gauss]

yes

YES YOU ARE CITIZEN OR YES YOU ARE TPR!?

[God Emperor Trudeau]

YES YOU ARE CITIZEN OR YES YOU ARE TPR!?

stop trying to get tpr to confirm, this is so anti town.

[Lady Gauss]

ok for arguments sake, me, lg, ika, and trine are actually citizens.

that leaves sinon and ccantman

who do we lynch?

I'd rather we went with ccantman. Sinon's thought process felt genuine, and there were a few moments that seemed uniquely town. Like when he said "err I guess Trudeau and Ika are town given the amount of... passion in their interaction" and the way he flipflopped back and forth on you because Mesk's personality couldn't compute with him.

something about ccantman reminds me of arrow, Ironically.

[Lady Gauss]

stop trying to get tpr to confirm, this is so anti town.

Erm, my vision has been corrupted a tad lol

[God Emperor Trudeau]

I'd rather we went with ccantman. Sinon's thought process felt genuine, and there were a few moments that seemed uniquely town. Like when he said "err I guess Trudeau and Ika are town given the amount of... passion in their interaction" and the way he flipflopped back and forth on you because Mesk's personality couldn't compute with him.

something about ccantman reminds me of arrow, Ironically.

yeah and I dont like how he buddied me.

What about ika?

[God Emperor Trudeau]

-unvote

decide soon I'm watching tv for the next 2.5 hours.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

You said earlier you wanted to lynch sinon over trine, but now you don't wanna lynch sinon?

[Lady Gauss]

yeah and I dont like how he buddied me.

What about ika?

Light townread. He feels really genuine this game, like he's truly got nothing to hide and nothing to hold him back. I feel dicey about trusting him after that cult of zed game, however.

[ccantman]

Jeez looeeez!

Imagine for a moment we are not aware Ika has already claimed citizen (like Trine). Imagine we just read that post by Ika.

Now, imagine we are trying to see the game from Ika's perspective, and presuming he is citizen. If he is citizen, claiming citizen and filling the 4th slot locks in where the TPRs are (assuming, as Trine stated in the original post, that the cit claims were true). This is not something Ika would want to do if he is citizen, which implies he isn't citizen!

I'm not trying to make you agree with the argument. I'm saying that, if faced with trying to assess which is more plausible:

-Trine was making the above argument, which makes sense in context

-Trine slipped by forgetting there were more cit claims than cits (?)

Clearly you should select the first rather than the second as what he was trying to say!!!

You're trying to argue two separate points at once - 1) he slipped 2) this argument is bad anyway. You're missing the pointtttt!!!

Let's pretend we go with option 1 in which case he was making the arguement in context.

After which, stuff happens, and we get to a point where we have 5 cit claims (6 according to people, but my point will still stand)

At this point. Assuming you are a cit.
Why would you not flat out say someone is lying?
Why be wishy washy with wording and say it indirectly?

Post #368 is when he give the town reads

ccantman: Leaning Town, I feel that ccantman hasn't contributed as much as he could due to being new and isn't quite sure how to act as Town to avoid being read as scum. Also claimed citizen after two others did, making it harder for our power roles to stay hidden.
ika: Null, seemed to take turns going after several people besides GET (ccantman, and sinon). I want to say that he's scum hunting and not just trying to find someone that people will line up to lynch. Difficult to say. Also claimed citizen last

At this time he knows all 4 cit claims are up

Post #385

Here we go with persecuting someone for the way they phrase things again. I was speaking from the perspective of the group as a whole, which is why I added that I had not yet claimed citizen.

At this time, Trine STILL HAS NOT CLAIMED CITIZEN, only indirectly infers
Why are we speaking for the group without full information, when you DO have full information. This is poor logical thinking

Post # 395 is when he finally claims cit

Let me try and break this down...



Blue Point: I was saying that unless one of others lied, assuming that Ika himself wasn't lying.

Red Point: I was not counting myself as I was speaking from a Town perspective and I had not yet claimed citizen.

I know I am Town. Therefore either Ika lied or one of the previous Town lied. Does that make better sense?

So at post 368 all cit claims are up (and if we believe trine is a cit)
Why are we saying unless one other lied. He didn't claim cit, but knows he is a cit.

And in his justifcation
I know I am Town: therefore

Therefore. If your town and a TPR, no one lied. the only way this is true is if "I know I am Cit"
His reasoning is very off

[Lady Gauss]

You said earlier you wanted to lynch sinon over trine, but now you don't wanna lynch sinon?

Thaaaat might have been Gyrlander :3

[Lady Gauss]

Thaaaat might have been Gyrlander :3

Sorry I keep forgetting to sign the posts.

[God Emperor Trudeau]

Let's pretend we go with option 1 in which case he was making the arguement in context.

After which, stuff happens, and we get to a point where we have 5 cit claims (6 according to people, but my point will still stand)

At this point. Assuming you are a cit.
Why would you not flat out say someone is lying?
Why be wishy washy with wording and say it indirectly?

Post #368 is when he give the town reads


At this time he knows all 4 cit claims are up

Post #385


At this time, Trine STILL HAS NOT CLAIMED CITIZEN, only indirectly infers
Why are we speaking for the group without full information, when you DO have full information. This is poor logical thinking

Post # 395 is when he finally claims cit


So at post 368 all cit claims are up (and if we believe trine is a cit)
Why are we saying unless one other lied. He didn't claim cit, but knows he is a cit.

And in his justifcation
I know I am Town: therefore

Therefore. If your town and a TPR, no one lied. the only way this is true is if "I know I am Cit"
His reasoning is very off

Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Lady Gauss]

random.org

Trine is 1
Sinon is 2
Ccantman is 3

GOOOO

[Lady Gauss]

random.org

Trine is 1
Sinon is 2
Ccantman is 3

GOOOO

-gyrlander :P

[God Emperor Trudeau]

I rolled 1

[Trine]

Well assuming ccant is as new as he says I'm more inclined to believe he's town, though he gives me a sheep vibe (no offense!), as in he's likely to go along with a strong personality like GET. Though some of his posts, like his most recent one (even though he's still going after me) demonstrates active participation. Neither of them would be my first pick. Ironically, it bothers me that some people aren't participating much (especially as it gets closer to the end of the day) as if they're hoping to skate by while the suspicion is lingering over someone else. I know I have no room to speak, though, having missed the first 24 hours or so.

[Lady Gauss]

Well assuming ccant is as new as he says I'm more inclined to believe he's town, though he gives me a sheep vibe (no offense!), as in he's likely to go along with a strong personality like GET. Though some of his posts, like his most recent one (even though he's still going after me) demonstrates active participation. Neither of them would be my first pick. Ironically, it bothers me that some people aren't participating much (especially as it gets closer to the end of the day) as if they're hoping to skate by while the suspicion is lingering over someone else. I know I have no room to speak, though, having missed the first 24 hours or so.

Who would be your pick?

[God Emperor Trudeau]

@Stereo place a vote, give a read, or claim something. plz.

[Trine]

Let's pretend we go with option 1 in which case he was making the arguement in context.

After which, stuff happens, and we get to a point where we have 5 cit claims (6 according to people, but my point will still stand)

At this point. Assuming you are a cit.
Why would you not flat out say someone is lying?
Why be wishy washy with wording and say it indirectly?

Post #368 is when he give the town reads


At this time he knows all 4 cit claims are up

Post #385


At this time, Trine STILL HAS NOT CLAIMED CITIZEN, only indirectly infers
Why are we speaking for the group without full information, when you DO have full information. This is poor logical thinking

Post # 395 is when he finally claims cit


So at post 368 all cit claims are up (and if we believe trine is a cit)
Why are we saying unless one other lied. He didn't claim cit, but knows he is a cit.

And in his justifcation
I know I am Town: therefore

Therefore. If your town and a TPR, no one lied. the only way this is true is if "I know I am Cit"
His reasoning is very off

This is incorrect, I had hard claimed cit and read after thing I missed before posting my read wall.

[Trine]

Also, obviously someone was lying as we have 5 claiming cit. I was being 'wishy washy' if you want to call it that, on whether ika was lying compared to the other town claims.