S-FM 195: In The World Of Music

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Apparently you overlooked all my posts from yesterday where we interacted. I then said I would be gone for the next 10-12 hours, because I have to sleep, because I am not in the same timezone as you. I then posted that I was reading when I woke up, there were 15 pages to go through, there are still nore and im not caught up. If youre going to scum read me, thats fine, but dont give some bullshit lurker claim because you failed to read my posts and acknowledge that I wasnt around, then was around and catching up.

Oh thats right you are captain active, God you have just been leading us to victory now havent you. Calling you a lurker was such bullshit.

[Firebringer]

Guys I think you are forgetting Kovath.
And my threats to destroy this game with spam if you don't comply with my demands.

I am a terrorist here, holding the game hostage.


COMPLY WITH MY ORDERS!

[Iced_Monopoly]

I will be on my pc in about half an hour so I can multiquote and post my reads for the past half day and thoughts on the shit show that has gone day, be back shortly.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I did post my reads, lots of null for now.

I actually remember seeing the post now that is my error.

Why is Iced in your town circle.

[Sino]

I mentioned secondpassing, you overlooked it.

Mesk I have a read on for something I will mention day2 If I live the night phase.
SuperJack is a pretty clear cut read. He isnt as clear as I would like him to be, but as the game goes on hes really good at showing his true colors. He has provided enough hunting/pinging out to have me content for the day despite a myriad of shitposting

I Havnet seen iced in likea day so I want more from him which is why hes on the chopping block until he proves his worth for the day.

Sino is now added to the I want to hear more from list. I find it odd that he is waiting for reads to give reads.

Page 27, post #529

I'm still leaning towards a Firebringer lynch

[Iced_Monopoly]

Oh thats right you are captain active, God you have just been leading us to victory now havent you. Calling you a lurker was such bullshit.

Glad to see you agree. Sarcasm is fun

[Sino]

I actually remember seeing the post now that is my error.

Why is Iced in your town circle.

He hasn't posted that much, but he has a point about me not asking why secondpassing didn't read me scum.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Glad to see you agree. Sarcasm is fun

I will hold off judgement on you until you are back and can give your stance.

[Sino]

Which is also why i'm waiting for him to post, given he wasn't very active, i want to hear more from him to read him again.

[Firebringer]

LYNCH KOVATH!

[Firebringer]

LYNCH KOVATH NOW!

[Firebringer]

I DEMAND HIS BLOOD!

[Firebringer]

I AM THE SHERIFF JAILOR FOLLOW ME!

[Firebringer]

I DEMAND SHEEP!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I AM THE SHERIFF JAILOR FOLLOW ME!

Regardless of your alignment can you refrain from spamming please.

[Firebringer]

YOU SHEEP NEED ME!

[Firebringer]

THE GODS DEMAND KOVATH DEATH!

[Firebringer]

Regardless of your alignment can you refrain from spamming please.

YOU MUST SHEEP ME TO MAKE ME STOP!!

[Firebringer]

I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE, KOVATH DEATH WILL HELP THE TOWN!!

[Firebringer]

THIS ISNT AN ICE CREAM SOCIAL. GET ON KOVATH NOW!!

[Firebringer]

I HAVE BEEN VERY NICE UP UNTIL NOW. I DEMAND YOU FOLLOW ME TO KEEP ME HAPPY!

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

YOU SHEEP NEED ME!

Which is why I don't want you getting them angry and emotionally lynching you. If you are town just move past your claim and continue analyzing the game. I almost lost town our last game because I literally went mad when they wouldn't follow my lynches when I had 4/4 evils. If you did not notice people did not respond well to my incessant spamming and wont to yours either, but use it to lynch you.

[Firebringer]

ENDING KOVATH IS A GOOD CHOICE IT HAS THE FIRBRINER SEAL OF APPROVAL!!

[Firebringer]

Which is why I don't want you getting them angry and emotionally lynching you. If you are town just move past your claim and continue analyzing the game. I almost lost town our last game because I literally went mad when they wouldn't follow my lynches when I had 4/4 evils. If you did not notice people did not respond well to my incessant spamming and wont to yours either, but use it to lynch you.

I AM FIREBRINGER I AM TOWN LEADER!

[Firebringer]

Okay, I am bored of that.
Going to go watch game of thrones.

Cya later guys.

[Kovath]

Okay, I am bored of that.
Going to go watch game of thrones.

Cya later guys.

I scumread you and didn't believe your manager claim so you went ballistic for a few pages.

For obvious reasons I do not agree with this behavior.

First you claim manager, hang on to it for for long enough and then pull out with a "gee, I was just trying to take the night kill" at a time I didn't really consider apt for it. Then you started spamming for my blood when I consistently did not believe you. I might have been inconsistent in some minor areas, but I do think that overall I explained my rationale well enough in my opinion.

I might see a tinge of honestly outraged town in your behavior, but I can also see crafty scum.

I'm sorry but you're not helping your case with me. You might be town after all but you're not helping convince me of it.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

My watch is over. Be back in an hour boys and gals.

[Whad]

Theres a huge difference. And normally I don't fake claim as town.
The difference was you faked a guilty on a player.
I faked a role that can't produce fake guilties.

You lynched the actual Squirtle.
I haven't promoted Whad lynch even once.

What if the hydra had rolled Manager. It is literally not pro-town to claim Manager since you have no knowledge of how the manager would react. This gambit has a high chance of grabbing a manager CC, or if you don't see a manager CC then (if you are scum) you can narrow down the manager to a list of players who wouldn't cc a manager claim. Tons of scum motivation behind doing what you did. I am not comfortable letting you off the hook because I'm pretty sure you are scum based on anti-town play.

[Whad]

So I think Fire and whad was a TvT. Fire had the ability to be more aggressive and win that 1v1 yet he chose to slowly lose the battle without a real fight. I think as mafia he would expect a counterclaim and be ready to hold onto the claim until death.

I think the lynch candidates for today should be in any order(may change based on their 2nd half of day 1 contributions)

time - made this clear iso me if need be
secondpassing - same as above
iced - lurker, until 5 minutes ago I did not even know he was still in the game.
kovath - disliked a lot of the content produced here, but need more content to really judge.

Superjack and mesk have done very little, but I don't seem that as a day 1 lynch despite their contribution to be... lacking.

Fire's play is not town motivated at all. This post makes me waffly on my townread of you.

Oh thats right you are captain active, God you have just been leading us to victory now havent you. Calling you a lurker was such bullshit.

Let's cut the sarcasm and keep it civil here.

Which is why I don't want you getting them angry and emotionally lynching you. If you are town just move past your claim and continue analyzing the game. I almost lost town our last game because I literally went mad when they wouldn't follow my lynches when I had 4/4 evils. If you did not notice people did not respond well to my incessant spamming and wont to yours either, but use it to lynch you.

Scum coaching scum? Noted.

[Whad]

Look. I am your un-cc'ed Town Manager. We are lynching Firebringer today (but not before scum hunting for the rest of today.) But let me just make that clear. We are lynching him.

Going to go back now and look at some reads.

[Iced_Monopoly]

1. @SuperJack
Not much has changed from my original read on his behaviour. His shitposting has continued at a steady rate, but also continues to drop small nuggets of useful observations in between. ie him calling out Sinos plan as useless given the interactions n1 would have.

Shit. All the manager needs to do is place the singer into a chat with another player and confirm who it is tomorrow. Why do you want everyone to claim their roles?

I no longer believe him to be scum, as his play appears to me to be something of a PR, avoiding making any noticeable or hard hitting comments, instead opting to survive d1 to use a night ability. Am reading Light-Town as a result.

2. @secondpassing
I continue to scum read Second as I have since the TimeForce train began. This post in particular when the double manager claim had yet to be resolved also struck me as interesting.

Scum can lead town. It's just less likely.

FB is backing you up by claiming manager when there was 3 people are pressuring you. In my eyes, he's claiming your manager (most likely), he's claiming manager that yolo played with a random town (makes no sense), or is scum.

I'm liking this post, yet, on the flip side I don't see a reason for Whad to protect me if we were both scum buddies. Though this defense this could be argued. See below.

It's simple.
Firebringer claimed manager, Whad claimed manager. Lynch one then lynch the other.
How decide which to lynch?
Firebringer protecting Time = scum aligned? KK -> Lynch Firebringer

No, there is no reason for me to claim. Whad is countering Firebringer. Simple as that.

Which could be taken that Whad is not defending me, yet she's not voting Firebringer...
Why dang it?

To me it reads as Second trying to distance himself from Whad, not wanting to be a part of the association, instead insisting that the debate is purely between the two of them. If not for scum reasons, than for not wanting to be correlated as the singer should whad flip green. Second has also failed to extensively scum read or read any players outside of the 2 train targets and Duck, which whilst im reading as something else for Time force, I am reading as scum for an experienced player like Second. I also have a sub theory about Fire that Second could tie into being scum, will explain in Fires section. Light-Scum.

3. @Mesk514
More shitposting, coupled with 10 seperate posts where she concludes who she is and isnt a 'fan' of. I know someone bought it up earlier, and I had initially only seen 2-3 of these posts, but after re-reading, they are everywhere and as early as page 1.
These are the Fans vs Non-Fans
Fan:
Timeforce (Questionably..)
Fire x 2
Unknown
Sino
Not-Fan:
Sino
Duck x 2
Iced
There are also a number of fan based posts on interactions between players and fights, Mesk was a fan of the Duck vs Sino arguement too. This is either excessive claiming or an estranged reaction to Gyrkanders open d1 post

The fans of many different singers screaming around you gives you a friendly warmth sensation and makes you feel like at home.

Im going with the unaligned or light-town basket for the time being.

4. @TimeForce (Unknown1234 + JamesChurchill)
As previously stated in my initial reads, Im still light-town reading this cluster fuck of a player. It has slowly started to iron out its thoughts and processes, but it still showed too much division early on to be a scum. You can read my previous observations post for the rest of this. It has continued to go on the defensive, and as pointed out by other players lacks the initiative to scum read others. This behaviour further cements my town sided read as poor town, not scum.

5. @Firebringer
The Manager claim debarkle was most interesting, and fires lack of commitment to the ploy is by some, being read as scum. I however read this entire scenario in a different light, and this is my sub theory. I believed Fire to be the actual manager, drawing out a fake counterclaim from the Bad Manager. The bad manager if existing would need to CC this claim if they intended to claim manager at any point in the game and Fire would then allow them to assume the role. Presumably baiting out players who changed their play style to either more reclused/concerned with aligning posts with the bad Managers posts, or to those who more actively supported the bad managers claims. He would either then CC the CC in later days, or if he was targetted, would leave a LW exposing the plot/test. Of course this all relies on a bad manager being in play, and wanting to claim the position instead of something simple like a fan. His backup of course would to be to simply play the 'defending the real manager' card, which he did. In both instances I read town, as it would be ludicrous for a player like himself, as scum, to make a play like that.

7. @PLZLEAVEDUCKK

This is more directed at anyone who wants to respond. Do you not see an issue that I am seemingly townread by everyone? The only person to go against me being town is mesk, but I have that down as trolling and I think I know what the reasoning is. I have posted a lot of content by now that SOMEONE should have pinged me out for something. I don't edit or review my posts, I could probably find 100 things to pick at in my posts yet nobody has...

I don't have a preference for night chats, do what you think is the best in generating a strong town circle.

Youre being town read because you are one of the most active players in the game thus far, and are setting up a reasonable volume of speculation and discussion. You mention that you could find flaws in your own posts, but I myself am struggling to do so. The only potential scum (and still just as easily town) behaviour I can read is your reluctance to move from Time as lynch candidate for today. From a scum perspective, Seconds train is gaining traction, youre hoping it wont end in a lynch so you dont want to be assosciated with it unless your hand is forced(ie commitment to hammer). Which is Second flipped red, you would allow yourself to distance from, and if Second isnt lynched at all, youre also distanced from. Inversely you also insulate yourself with your suggestion that initial trains die off and they are usually scum, so you maintain your vote on what you perceive to be a likely scum candidate, which can be interpreted as town. I am in the group that reads you as town, as there is little else to read you on at the moment without flip associations. Med-Town.

8. @Kovath
Kovath's earlier posts imo were well constructed and thought out in comparison to a lot of the shit posting that was previously (and unfortunately currently) taking place on this thread. Initially I was reading light town, however his interactions with the manager incident have left me to reevaluate my position. I believe Kovath may tie into my sub theory about fire given that his behaviour changed from the point that fire rescinded his managerial claim. Fire also then almost immediatly flipped on Kovath, demanding his lynching. Once again a possible sign that my sub theory is in play and that fire was baiting out scum. This post

FB also seems awfully nonchalant about having possibly outed our manager.

Also leads me to believe that Kovath knows Whad isnt manager and is partnered with him, and is trying to move more focus to fire. While the rest of us accept that there is little possbility that fire would play such a risky gambit, both these players are gunning for Fires lynch, as reflected in the votes too. Firebringer(2[L-4]): Whad, Kovath. Light scum read.

9. @Calix
I havnt had much of a chance to analyse Calixs posts as ive been focused primarily on the trains and the players interacting with them. Calix is yet to place a vote of her own, but has been focused on the TimeForce hydra instead, as well as mild defense against meta accusations from SJ. Her play is too short for me to have a decent read on her as of right now so im placing unaligned and will be revisting when she becomes available again.

10. @Whad
At this point Whad is either Confirmed Town, or so committed to his claim (while being scum), that its not possible for him to back out and claim anything else. His alignment is all but confirmed with the flip of Fire. My scum read is part of my fire-subtheory, In that most players have already acknowledged that lynching the managerial claims arent going to happen today, so Whad is confident that he can push the actual manager as hard as he wants today without consequence of fire actually being lynched and flipping manager. I noted in an earlier post today while I was reading through the pages that Whad appears to be incapable of coming to his own conclusions, instead opting to paraphrase and regurgitate other players posts. Im going to go ahead and put him in the scum basket purely because most of my other scum reads focus on my fire theory. Should that theory be disproven, then Whad will be confirmed town and his role will be unchanged.

11. @Sino

I'd like Iced_Monopoly to give us his thoughts though.

For now, i need the inactive players to talk, i know Iced should give us his reads shortly

I will as soon as we've read what Iced thinks of all of this, his post may change my reads.

3 times now. I called out Whad last game for his odd buddying behaviour, and whilst this isnt exactly what he was doing, it is reminiscent. I cant possibly comprehend how my reads would influence your reads, or why you wouldnt be able to add posts after I posted to amend your reads. I also dont like that youre only concerned with my reads, especially after you town read me - thats what whad did last game, and he only did it once. I scum read you in my previous reads list and im willing to maintain that read.

Most of my scum reads are centered around a theory I have running on Firebringers managerial reveal. Should firebringer flip, his role will ultimately cement or reverse most of my town and scum reads.

[Whad]

1. @SuperJack
Not much has changed from my original read on his behaviour. His shitposting has continued at a steady rate, but also continues to drop small nuggets of useful observations in between. ie him calling out Sinos plan as useless given the interactions n1 would have.

I no longer believe him to be scum, as his play appears to me to be something of a PR, avoiding making any noticeable or hard hitting comments, instead opting to survive d1 to use a night ability. Am reading Light-Town as a result.

2. @secondpassing
I continue to scum read Second as I have since the TimeForce train began. This post in particular when the double manager claim had yet to be resolved also struck me as interesting.

To me it reads as Second trying to distance himself from Whad, not wanting to be a part of the association, instead insisting that the debate is purely between the two of them. If not for scum reasons, than for not wanting to be correlated as the singer should whad flip green. Second has also failed to extensively scum read or read any players outside of the 2 train targets and Duck, which whilst im reading as something else for Time force, I am reading as scum for an experienced player like Second. I also have a sub theory about Fire that Second could tie into being scum, will explain in Fires section. Light-Scum.

3. @Mesk514
More shitposting, coupled with 10 seperate posts where she concludes who she is and isnt a 'fan' of. I know someone bought it up earlier, and I had initially only seen 2-3 of these posts, but after re-reading, they are everywhere and as early as page 1.
These are the Fans vs Non-Fans
Fan:
Timeforce (Questionably..)
Fire x 2
Unknown
Sino
Not-Fan:
Sino
Duck x 2
Iced
There are also a number of fan based posts on interactions between players and fights, Mesk was a fan of the Duck vs Sino arguement too. This is either excessive claiming or an estranged reaction to Gyrkanders open d1 post

Im going with the unaligned or light-town basket for the time being.

4. @TimeForce (Unknown1234 + JamesChurchill)
As previously stated in my initial reads, Im still light-town reading this cluster fuck of a player. It has slowly started to iron out its thoughts and processes, but it still showed too much division early on to be a scum. You can read my previous observations post for the rest of this. It has continued to go on the defensive, and as pointed out by other players lacks the initiative to scum read others. This behaviour further cements my town sided read as poor town, not scum.

5. @Firebringer
The Manager claim debarkle was most interesting, and fires lack of commitment to the ploy is by some, being read as scum. I however read this entire scenario in a different light, and this is my sub theory. I believed Fire to be the actual manager, drawing out a fake counterclaim from the Bad Manager. The bad manager if existing would need to CC this claim if they intended to claim manager at any point in the game and Fire would then allow them to assume the role. Presumably baiting out players who changed their play style to either more reclused/concerned with aligning posts with the bad Managers posts, or to those who more actively supported the bad managers claims. He would either then CC the CC in later days, or if he was targetted, would leave a LW exposing the plot/test. Of course this all relies on a bad manager being in play, and wanting to claim the position instead of something simple like a fan. His backup of course would to be to simply play the 'defending the real manager' card, which he did. In both instances I read town, as it would be ludicrous for a player like himself, as scum, to make a play like that.

7. @PLZLEAVEDUCKK

Youre being town read because you are one of the most active players in the game thus far, and are setting up a reasonable volume of speculation and discussion. You mention that you could find flaws in your own posts, but I myself am struggling to do so. The only potential scum (and still just as easily town) behaviour I can read is your reluctance to move from Time as lynch candidate for today. From a scum perspective, Seconds train is gaining traction, youre hoping it wont end in a lynch so you dont want to be assosciated with it unless your hand is forced(ie commitment to hammer). Which is Second flipped red, you would allow yourself to distance from, and if Second isnt lynched at all, youre also distanced from. Inversely you also insulate yourself with your suggestion that initial trains die off and they are usually scum, so you maintain your vote on what you perceive to be a likely scum candidate, which can be interpreted as town. I am in the group that reads you as town, as there is little else to read you on at the moment without flip associations. Med-Town.

8. @Kovath
Kovath's earlier posts imo were well constructed and thought out in comparison to a lot of the shit posting that was previously (and unfortunately currently) taking place on this thread. Initially I was reading light town, however his interactions with the manager incident have left me to reevaluate my position. I believe Kovath may tie into my sub theory about fire given that his behaviour changed from the point that fire rescinded his managerial claim. Fire also then almost immediatly flipped on Kovath, demanding his lynching. Once again a possible sign that my sub theory is in play and that fire was baiting out scum. This post
Also leads me to believe that Kovath knows Whad isnt manager and is partnered with him, and is trying to move more focus to fire. While the rest of us accept that there is little possbility that fire would play such a risky gambit, both these players are gunning for Fires lynch, as reflected in the votes too. Firebringer(2[L-4]): Whad, Kovath. Light scum read.

9. @Calix
I havnt had much of a chance to analyse Calixs posts as ive been focused primarily on the trains and the players interacting with them. Calix is yet to place a vote of her own, but has been focused on the TimeForce hydra instead, as well as mild defense against meta accusations from SJ. Her play is too short for me to have a decent read on her as of right now so im placing unaligned and will be revisting when she becomes available again.

10. @Whad
At this point Whad is either Confirmed Town, or so committed to his claim (while being scum), that its not possible for him to back out and claim anything else. His alignment is all but confirmed with the flip of Fire. My scum read is part of my fire-subtheory, In that most players have already acknowledged that lynching the managerial claims arent going to happen today, so Whad is confident that he can push the actual manager as hard as he wants today without consequence of fire actually being lynched and flipping manager. I noted in an earlier post today while I was reading through the pages that Whad appears to be incapable of coming to his own conclusions, instead opting to paraphrase and regurgitate other players posts. Im going to go ahead and put him in the scum basket purely because most of my other scum reads focus on my fire theory. Should that theory be disproven, then Whad will be confirmed town and his role will be unchanged.

11. @Sino




3 times now. I called out Whad last game for his odd buddying behaviour, and whilst this isnt exactly what he was doing, it is reminiscent. I cant possibly comprehend how my reads would influence your reads, or why you wouldnt be able to add posts after I posted to amend your reads. I also dont like that youre only concerned with my reads, especially after you town read me - thats what whad did last game, and he only did it once. I scum read you in my previous reads list and im willing to maintain that read.

Most of my scum reads are centered around a theory I have running on Firebringers managerial reveal. Should firebringer flip, his role will ultimately cement or reverse most of my town and scum reads.

Sometimes the easiest solution is the actual solution and the convoluted plot you've done mental acrobatics to construct in your head is not the solution. Aka maybe I'm just Manager and Firebringer is just scum who imploded. Also, I'm not just regurgitating peoples' reads and posts. I posted a plan for myself to confirm myself as manager and outlined a way for someone to be forced to claim a role to the singer tonight to start a conf-town circle going.

[Kovath]

Iced: If Firebringer is actually a green non-Manager as he claims publicly atm, does this confirm or refute Whad's Manager claim and how would it affect the rest of your reads? Who would your scumreads be in this case?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Sometimes the easiest solution is the actual solution and the convoluted plot you've done mental acrobatics to construct in your head is not the solution. Aka maybe I'm just Manager and Firebringer is just scum who imploded.

I think my plot is just as convoluted as the plot Fire must be playing at if hes actually scum who 'imploded', because I cant reconcile how or why he would do what he did if he were scum. The third alternative is that he really is just a nobody that was hoping to take a bullet for the actual manager, but thats rather boring, and not at all exciting nor something that I see fire doing based on his meta

[Iced_Monopoly]

Iced: If Firebringer is actually a green non-Manager as he claims publicly atm, does this confirm or refute Whad's Manager claim and how would it affect the rest of your reads? Who would your scumreads be in this case?

I hadnt spent too much time looking at this possibility, as I had discounted it based on meta, so my two reads that are scum and arent specifically aligned with my theory are Second and Sino, but I dont have a third as of right now.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Fire's play is not town motivated at all. This post makes me waffly on my townread of you.



Let's cut the sarcasm and keep it civil here.



Scum coaching scum? Noted.

I don't coach, I carry and if you want to win I advise hoping off the fire train and reevaluating. I had an essay typed that just got deleted on why fire is town, but I'm not retyping it on my iPad. Tldr for now is that his play is mirroring my squirtle claim from last game into subsequent rage spam. Last game on day1 I spent 50 posts reevaluating and flipped on fire 5 times within day one. This on top of other fm and mod games leads me to believe that this is his town play and unless he learned how to level his play in a week he is town.

If he plans to come back and contribute I am against lynching him today, and want the focus on Secondpassing or time. Kovach is also a good place to look.

Personally I think fire is just having a bad game. He scum reads my towns, town reads my scum, and then had the worst claim of 2016...

[Mesk514]

3. @Mesk514
More shitposting, coupled with 10 seperate posts where she concludes who she is and isnt a 'fan' of. I know someone bought it up earlier, and I had initially only seen 2-3 of these posts, but after re-reading, they are everywhere and as early as page 1.
These are the Fans vs Non-Fans
Fan:
Timeforce (Questionably..)
Fire x 2
Unknown
Sino
Not-Fan:
Sino
Duck x 2
Iced
There are also a number of fan based posts on interactions between players and fights, Mesk was a fan of the Duck vs Sino arguement too. This is either excessive claiming or an estranged reaction to Gyrkanders open d1 post

Im going with the unaligned or light-town basket for the time being.

lol

[Kovath]

You two are making meta reads that I am not prepared to make because I haven't played with any of you. All I have to work with is what I have in this thread. I'm also not the biggest fan of meta on principle.

Duck, I also don't put much stock in your rage spam meta point. When someone is scumreading you most of the time, it's not overly difficult to begin ragespamming about lynching them. For all I know he remembered whichever game you are referring to and is incorporating it into his own play, because he assumes you will remember as well. I, personally, consider it null at best.

If you have played with him many times and value your meta reads on Firebringer, then that will have value for you. It does not have value for me, which is why I am still waiting for something substantive from this thread to change my read.

On the Fire being Manager theory: this is possible but relies on people recognizing that he might be making this play. If people truly believe that the Manager CC is the true Manager, even as town, then I do not think that examining the changes in their reads will yield substantive value. A confirmed town, so to speak, is confirmed after all. Nor do I think that scum would be the only ones dumb enough to alter their play and make themselves conspicuous in this circumstance, knowing that the real manager was still out there. It doesn't take out your theory as this depends on a lot of different assumptions and inferences, but I do consider it a large hole to cover.

Furthermore, there is quite a bit of risk in allowing a scum to take a town leadership role, creating questions on when would be the optimal time for FB to reveal himself for real.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You two are making meta reads that I am not prepared to make because I haven't played with any of you. All I have to work with is what I have in this thread. I'm also not the biggest fan of meta on principle.

Duck, I also don't put much stock in your rage spam meta point. When someone is scumreading you most of the time, it's not overly difficult to begin ragespamming about lynching them. For all I know he remembered whichever game you are referring to and is incorporating it into his own play, because he assumes you will remember as well. I, personally, consider it null at best.

If you have played with him many times and value your meta reads on Firebringer, then that will have value for you. It does not have value for me, which is why I am still waiting for something substantive from this thread to change my read.

On the Fire being Manager theory: this is possible but relies on people recognizing that he might be making this play. If people truly believe that the Manager CC is the true Manager, even as town, then I do not think that examining the changes in their reads will yield substantive value. A confirmed town, so to speak, is confirmed after all. Nor do I think that scum would be the only ones dumb enough to alter their play and make themselves conspicuous in this circumstance, knowing that the real manager was still out there. It doesn't take out your theory as this depends on a lot of different assumptions and inferences, but I do consider it a large hole to cover.

Furthermore, there is quite a bit of risk in allowing a scum to take a town leadership role, creating questions on when would be the optimal time for FB to reveal himself for real.

This is the first post from you that I have liked. I like that you want to establish your own reads and not trust my meta read on fire. I thought about him pandering based on our last game, but I think this is not the case because I am not the confirmed town and not the one in charge thus convincing me is useless.

Also important note I am clearing up all questions about the manager theory right now.

WHAD is manager, this is 100% confirmed no other theory is plausible. If a real manager doesn't cc two claims to his role then they shouldn't be playing, and a town will never claim and then rescind their real role claim unless it is like a medic or something that benefits from avoiding being night killed. I should probably sleep soon but if I see any questions I'll try to stay awake

[Iced_Monopoly]

Whad, Do you still believe whole heartedly that Fire is scum (I believe it was 0.0000001% he was likely town)?
If so, how would you explain the motivations for a potential scum role (bad manager) claiming to be a confirmed role (town manager)?

[Whad]

Ok reread up to post 500. Sleeping soon so here are my reads:

Superjack - great contributions, asks helpful questions about the setup (#400), looks for ways for manager to confirm self (#379). Strong town.

Secondpassing - I really like (#234) where SecondPassing lays out some good reasons why timeforce seems scummy and (#252) where secondpassing is not worried about people not townreading her. This reads as town righteousness to me.

Mesk514 - Ok I picked up on Mesk's soft claim based on all the Fan posts and am now reading Mesk as strong town unless she claims something different.

TimeForce - Way too defensive: (#133), (#140), (#149), (#176), (#244), (#340). That's a lot of defensiveness. I don't like how this slot calls me executioner as an attempt to discredit my push against this player (#443). Then their defense of Firebringer saying that "few scum know how to lead the town" is just bizarre (#462). I'm reading this slot as scummmy scum.

Firebringer - I don't buy Firebringer's reason for fake claiming Manager to protect the real manager. I also don't think scum would fake claim manager. However of the two possibilities here, scum fake claiming manager and being charismatic enough to get our of a lynch rings the most probable to me. Also, interactions with TimeForce make me even more suspicious of this slot.

Iced_Monopoly - I haven't updated my notes with Iced's new posts, but his insistence on some kind of conspiracy theory where I am scum and Firebringer is town is so outrageous that I want to read it as townie paranoia. However, sometimes a potato is just a potato and that means Iced is scum. Offshoot chance of SP scum and the rest of the scum team thinks I softed that SP is the singer. And therefore I must be full of shit and Firebringer is the real Manager. Calix would fall under this camp as well.

PLZLEAVEDUCKK - I like Duck's push against Time (#143), nugget on SJ (#28 (#291), general presence in daychat. Solid town read. This is why I'm putting him in the chat tonight where he should 1. prove identity to the singer, 1b. notify singer if he is in multiple chats. 2. If in one chat claim full role to the singer. 3. If singer finds him trustworthy then he can reveal self.

Kovath - Some solid posts but tbh this slot is null leaning town only by PoE for me.

Melancholic/Calix - Weird thoughts about me CC'ing Fire (#385) not unreasonable in the context they were posted, but made weirder if I entertain the thought that SP is actually scum with Calix. (#396) about wanting scum to audit the manager claims reads as the "oh drat the scum killed our doctor last night" move as mafia in the sc2mod.

Sino - (#263) "don't lynch since we have a lot of time left" seems a little weird to me, as does the advocating of OGC (#367). Seems to try to help though with comments about unemployed manager (#406), although then (#182) I am not a fan of due to the hedgy behavior and refusal to start a bandwagon. General impression is null leaning town by PoE but this read is hanging by a thread.

[Whad]

Whad, Do you still believe whole heartedly that Fire is scum (I believe it was 0.0000001% he was likely town)?
If so, how would you explain the motivations for a potential scum role (bad manager) claiming to be a confirmed role (town manager)?

It's such suboptimal play that I think Firebringer is assuming that we would not believe he would do something so suboptimal as scum therefore he must be a town doing a really shitty gambit.

If Fire is town I should trust his read on Time and then scum must be something like SP/Iced/Calix. Oh wait that's you. Care to respond to what I posted in my big rainbow post about you?

[Whad]

I would vastly prefer a Firebringer lynch today but could rally around a Time lynch or Calix due to reasons stated above. Unfortunately I won't be able to post much tomorrow, won't be around near day end, and can only pop on for a short time in about 8 hours if even.

Hope people can weigh in on the options in the next few hours. We should really get behind one of the three I've proposed and move forward with it.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Responses in Purple

Ok reread up to post 500. Sleeping soon so here are my reads:

Superjack - great contributions, asks helpful questions about the setup (#400), looks for ways for manager to confirm self (#379). Strong town.
You're kidding me right, great contributions? Have you gone to look at his posts, theyre almost entirely fluff, if hes had some 50 posts, 4 of them have been relevant to the game. This comes across as a very lazy read and his behaviour could not possibly read as STRONG town.

Secondpassing - I really like (#234) where SecondPassing lays out some good reasons why timeforce seems scummy and (#252) where secondpassing is not worried about people not townreading her. This reads as town righteousness to me.
Second has also failed to address any of the issues raised about her, opting to instead ignore continue pressure the low hanging fruit, and not reading other players in the game, focusing her attention and reads on only a select few players, can she not read other players?

Mesk514 - Ok I picked up on Mesk's soft claim based on all the Fan posts and am now reading Mesk as strong town unless she claims something different.
Reading a player as STRONG town, because theyve thrown the word 'fan' into a lot of their posts, then shitposted the rest.

TimeForce - Way too defensive: (#133), (#140), (#149), (#176), (#244), (#340). That's a lot of defensiveness. I don't like how this slot calls me executioner as an attempt to discredit my push against this player (#443). Then their defense of Firebringer saying that "few scum know how to lead the town" is just bizarre (#462). I'm reading this slot as scummmy scum.
Il agree that this slot is playing defensively, but do you not consider the possibility that their disruptive thoughts and lack of cooperating is not an indicator of poor town rather than scum?

Firebringer - I don't buy Firebringer's reason for fake claiming Manager to protect the real manager. I also don't think scum would fake claim manager. However of the two possibilities here, scum fake claiming manager and being charismatic enough to get our of a lynch rings the most probable to me. Also, interactions with TimeForce make me even more suspicious of this slot.
To get out of a lynch? Fire was never up for a potential lynch, and knowing he would be counter claimed, he would have sold out 2 roles for no benefit what so over. I dont understand how you can read him as scum, even in my theory I read him as town, and our theories dont even align.

Iced_Monopoly - I haven't updated my notes with Iced's new posts, but his insistence on some kind of conspiracy theory where I am scum and Firebringer is town is so outrageous that I want to read it as townie paranoia. However, sometimes a potato is just a potato and that means Iced is scum. Offshoot chance of SP scum and the rest of the scum team thinks I softed that SP is the singer. And therefore I must be full of shit and Firebringer is the real Manager. Calix would fall under this camp as well.
Yes, I said there was the potential for you to be scum for the reasons I outlined in my theory, I also said that regardless of what Fire flipped (with the exception of manager) you were always going to be confirmed town. I also still believe Second is scum even without my theory behind it.

PLZLEAVEDUCKK - I like Duck's push against Time (#143), nugget on SJ (#28 (#291), general presence in daychat. Solid town read. This is why I'm putting him in the chat tonight where he should 1. prove identity to the singer, 1b. notify singer if he is in multiple chats. 2. If in one chat claim full role to the singer. 3. If singer finds him trustworthy then he can reveal self.
I agree with this, Although Duck said he didnt want to be involved in the night chat. If in the same position as you I would put him in there anyways.

Kovath - Some solid posts but tbh this slot is null leaning town only by PoE for me.
Not sure how solid posts is a null read, yet shitposting and spamming 'fan' is a STRONG lead.

Melancholic/Calix - Weird thoughts about me CC'ing Fire (#385) not unreasonable in the context they were posted, but made weirder if I entertain the thought that SP is actually scum with Calix. (#396) about wanting scum to audit the manager claims reads as the "oh drat the scum killed our doctor last night" move as mafia in the sc2mod.
I too have had mixed reads on Calix, im not sure what you meant by your last line here, are you saying she was scum directing? Because if that were the case, i'd agree.

Sino - (#263) "don't lynch since we have a lot of time left" seems a little weird to me, as does the advocating of OGC (#367). Seems to try to help though with comments about unemployed manager (#406), although then (#182) I am not a fan of due to the hedgy behavior and refusal to start a bandwagon. General impression is null leaning town by PoE but this read is hanging by a thread.
I would also agree on your read here with the 'SEEMS to try to help' portion of his play. I am more inclined to roll scum than town though from a null perspective.

If you hadn't already claimed a role, I wouldve voted you up for one of the laziest, least justified reads list ive ever seen. I also dont like that youre unwilling to entertain ideas that fall outside the norm, its too close minded, especially on day 1. I suggest re-evaluating the players towards the top of your list whom youve so STRONGLY read as town, despite their lack of substance in their posting. Other than that I will continue re-reading to look for a third potential scum, as Kovath and Duck have both dismissed my Fire Theory

[Whad]

Responses in Purple



If you hadn't already claimed a role, I wouldve voted you up for one of the laziest, least justified reads list ive ever seen. I also dont like that youre unwilling to entertain ideas that fall outside the norm, its too close minded, especially on day 1. I suggest re-evaluating the players towards the top of your list whom youve so STRONGLY read as town, despite their lack of substance in their posting. Other than that I will continue re-reading to look for a third potential scum, as Kovath and Duck have both dismissed my Fire Theory

1. It's not lazy, I just didn't include the actual quotes since the post was getting quite long (only post numbers). However my justification is in there.

2. Keep in mind I know the singer and I don't want to make it totally obvious who they are.

3. Everyone I'm townreading has given me something to townread them based off of. (see quotes when relevant)

4. Your comments:
a) not going to respond to your criticisms of my town reads.
b) Timeforce has had sustained defensiveness basically the whole game long. No need for a townie to be that on edge. Townies should feel confident and not resort to bad plays like claiming I (whad) must be an executioner.
c) Firebringer is scum for a hugely anti-town fake claim. I believe that all lying is bad in mafia games. There is no reason a townie should ever lie.
d) Iced you're still acting weirdly. How is there the potential for me to be scum when I am now confirmed town?
e) Calix's play was both scum directing and over the top acting put out. Such as when the mafia sees they killed the doctor and gets excited but says "town had a terrible night last night we are so screwed". That's how her comment about the mod comment on auditing seemed to me.

I am very confident in my town reads until given some reason to re-evaluate. Still keeping an open mind but for now this is where things are at.

[Firebringer]

Man, theres actually decent content and I don't want to address most of it.
Sad.

I can lynch TimeForce, but I really don't want to.
Korvath is my main guy right now.

[Firebringer]

Whad, I 100% could have turned this into a 1v1 between us, and went straight into discrediting you. I didn't. I could have tried to force you to out the singer too, which would make a trade more viable scum strategy, which I didn't.

If you can't honestly see my town motivation, continue pressing forward. But don't say theres zero reason. I explained myself very clearly, if you think its stupid, or bad so be it. I had reasons for doing it, and now you are likely going to get night killed because of your own stubborness to see a town trying to protect you.

[Calix]

Please vote Firebringer. He is being anti-town and false claimed manager. Vote either myself or Firebringer today.

Also, I don't see Firebringer making any plans for proving himself or for forming a town trust circle. Must be because he is not the manager.

No. The only scum motivation people can attribute to his fake-claim is "FB is known for insane gambits" and "teh meta" which is shitty and not something I am willing to lynch him for.

It's odd to me that he claims to be trying to draw the night kill but that is not enough for me to vote him.

I'm being a bit overwhelmed by the situation here, let me give you my current reads :

Town
Duck
Iced

Null
secondpassing
Whad
Mesk
Calix
Time
Kovath

Scum
SuperJack
Firebringer

I know that's a lot of people i can't decide whether they are town or not, most of the people here have only focused their attention on only one player, i'd like everyone to give us all of their reads.

As for the lynch, i still lean towards Firebringer

How does focusing on one player make them 'null'?

Why do you think SJ and FB are in a team together?

The fact that Sino wants to vote for FB does not sit well with me. Sino has been acting in a pro-scum manner for most of the game and I'm not sure why people seem to be - for the most part - ignoring him after the start of the day.

Guys I think you are forgetting Kovath.
And my threats to destroy this game with spam if you don't comply with my demands.

I am a terrorist here, holding the game hostage.


COMPLY WITH MY ORDERS!

Fuck you, you entitled brat.

This is the first post from you that I have liked. I like that you want to establish your own reads and not trust my meta read on fire. I thought about him pandering based on our last game, but I think this is not the case because I am not the confirmed town and not the one in charge thus convincing me is useless.

Also important note I am clearing up all questions about the manager theory right now.

WHAD is manager, this is 100% confirmed no other theory is plausible. If a real manager doesn't cc two claims to his role then they shouldn't be playing, and a town will never claim and then rescind their real role claim unless it is like a medic or something that benefits from avoiding being night killed. I should probably sleep soon but if I see any questions I'll try to stay awake

I like this logic about Kovath.

However, I don't agree with the next part. Pocketing players is a thing.

1. It's not lazy, I just didn't include the actual quotes since the post was getting quite long (only post numbers). However my justification is in there.

2. Keep in mind I know the singer and I don't want to make it totally obvious who they are.

3. Everyone I'm townreading has given me something to townread them based off of. (see quotes when relevant)

4. Your comments:
a) not going to respond to your criticisms of my town reads.
b) Timeforce has had sustained defensiveness basically the whole game long. No need for a townie to be that on edge. Townies should feel confident and not resort to bad plays like claiming I (whad) must be an executioner.
c) Firebringer is scum for a hugely anti-town fake claim. I believe that all lying is bad in mafia games. There is no reason a townie should ever lie.
d) Iced you're still acting weirdly. How is there the potential for me to be scum when I am now confirmed town?
e) Calix's play was both scum directing and over the top acting put out. Such as when the mafia sees they killed the doctor and gets excited but says "town had a terrible night last night we are so screwed". That's how her comment about the mod comment on auditing seemed to me.

B) Townies play poorly all the time. In an ideal world, you'd be correct but that's simply not the case. Defensiveness is not a scum tell either; new townies would not appreciate being pushed and would lash out. The only suspicious points that stand out to me would be the combined OMGUS and discrediting their opponents at the expense of anything else.
C) AKA, lynch all liars. See FF7 with pisskop to see how well THAT worked out /s
Anti-town =/= pro-scum and until I find a legitimate scum-motivated reason for FB to claim like that UNDER NO PRESSURE then I will not vote him. It is Day 1, so the scum have yet to discuss strategy. Thus, it should not be too difficult to consider why FB might have done it as scum, no?
The fact that you keep calling his actions 'anti-town' instead of 'pro-scum' and the fact that you keep playing up FB's meta for gambits does not make me confident in this train.
E) Why are you judging me based off the mod? I don't play it and I don't play like that.

[Firebringer]

Fuck you, you entitled brat.

I guess I can squeeze in a quick one, though I am unsure if you are scum. So you might stab me in the back.
Ill take the risk though *unzips*

[Calix]

I guess I can squeeze in a quick one, though I am unsure if you are scum. So you might stab me in the back.
Ill take the risk though *unzips*

Your reads are as terrible as your performance in bed, it seems.

Why Kovath and not Sino?