S-FM 205: Instant Mafia 2.0

[Calix]

Friendly reminder to not talk about ongoing games as this is against the site-wise rules.

[Unknown1234]

Fine, I'll actually go do wall posts even though I despise them.

Why is Kovath/yzb impossible?

What has Iced_Monopoly done compared to yzb? Also saying "he doesn't have the same time as us" is wrong to say because that doesn't stop him from posting.

@yzb25

Btw I'm going to ignore your "skill level comments" because they are irrelevant. The fact that you DONT think the two worst players are scum (in your eyes) is enough reason why it doesn't work.

I'm leaning Iced honestly, but I'll get to that.

[Kovath]

What if Calix thinks I'm a shit-tier player?

[Kovath]

Fine, I'll actually go do wall posts even though I despise them.

Why is Kovath/yzb impossible?

What has Iced_Monopoly done compared to yzb? Also saying "he doesn't have the same time as us" is wrong to say because that doesn't stop him from posting.

@yzb25

Btw I'm going to ignore your "skill level comments" because they are irrelevant. The fact that you DONT think the two worst players are scum (in your eyes) is enough reason why it doesn't work.

I'm leaning Iced honestly, but I'll get to that.

Burden is on you to prove this. Also, yzb is clearly around yet not posting either.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

What if Calix thinks I'm a shit-tier player?

Calix is in love with you like I have seen with no person before. You are a special snowflake in her eye. In my rankings you were also put at 1) for overall consistent logical cookie cutter play. To be fair her rankings don't count because its true I could be completely wrong, but I don't think so. Calix will flame my interpretation and host meta post game I am sure. CALIX I AM SORRY FOR USING IT, BUT 3 PEOPLE ALWAYS MIA OR NOT POSTING.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Okay going to drive to my house now, bb later.

[Kovath]

Calix is in love with you like I have seen with no person before. You are a special snowflake in her eye. In my rankings you were also put at 1) for overall consistent logical cookie cutter play. To be fair her rankings don't count because its true I could be completely wrong, but I don't think so. Calix will flame my interpretation and host meta post game I am sure. CALIX I AM SORRY FOR USING IT, BUT 3 PEOPLE ALWAYS MIA OR NOT POSTING.

...

[yzb25]

So I looked through Kovath's posts and I don't think I can ever lynch him. The problem is he has played this game as mafia before and premeditated a sheriff fake claim. It is very plausible to think he came into this game with a sheriff mindset as mafia. I cant fathom us having more TPR's after losing a member due to signups, but that could be part of the setup charm I will have to deal with.

If kovath is mafia he knows its possible I tunnel on yuki since the mayor revealed. He probably also knows that I will have more sway than yuki. However if hes mafia he also risks me being the sheriff, and he does not want to get in a 1v1 with me because even if he wins the 1v1, it will be too messy for mafia's liking.

Against my former self, I am ignoring setup spec, and going off the tone/timing/reads/etc. and going to say Kovath is a real sheriff.

Eh who the fuck knows, I really wanted to roll mafia this game.

What about the buddying banter?

What about when Unknown said to him: "You were mafia last game. What are you doing now that is different from last game?"

And Kovath replied with the ultimate politician's response of "Your question is irrelevant. I was mafia last game but I'm town this game, so what does last game have to do with this one?"

Even though Unknown was clearly trying to make the logical point that Kovath's play isn't that different from his usual scumplay.

What about the fact Kovath seemed to indicate he didn't like the idea of "trying to find a gamebreaking strategy", regarding your sheriff proposal, but never bothered to push this point? Maybe he wanted to make the point to seem town, but knew your idea would directly play into his strategy anyway?

(Off the top of my head) (post 363)

[Yukitaka Oni]

I just honestly cant force myself to properly evaluate this game until I know yuki is either jumping off a cliff in real life, or someone is pushing him off of one.

Threatening people in real life eh? Nice way to convince people to play by telling'em to jump off the cliff.
No wonder why you told me to ignore you. How about telling me to report you to Calix for being an asshole in real life as well?

[Yukitaka Oni]

What if Calix thinks I'm a shit-tier player?

You win last game. How can you be a shit-tier?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Calix is in love with you like I have seen with no person before. You are a special snowflake in her eye. In my rankings you were also put at 1) for overall consistent logical cookie cutter play. To be fair her rankings don't count because its true I could be completely wrong, but I don't think so. Calix will flame my interpretation and host meta post game I am sure. CALIX I AM SORRY FOR USING IT, BUT 3 PEOPLE ALWAYS MIA OR NOT POSTING.

Okay going to drive to my house now, bb later.

CALIX I AM SORRY FOR USING IT, BUT PLZDUCK ALWAYS EXCUSE FOR MIA OR NOT POSTING
How does it feel? To be played like a damn fiddle?

[yzb25]

Not at all, kind of already done it, BUT BECAUSE I ACTUALLY TRY TO PLAY THE GAME, I will bring it together in one post for you.

Im not going to re ISO you in this post, if you aren't satisfied with my response I will go back and go line by line.

Start of game:
mafia read you for your rvs vote on me, as flimsy as a read can be, but just wanted to note that I thought if you were mafia you would rvs me.
Asked a lot of questions you normally didn't - didn't really care for it one way or the other, slighty mafia indicative in feeling slightly out of place.
Buddy system - was odd and matches your mafia play.
There was one reply you had to unknown where I visualized you saying word for word out loud and I said, that man is town, and I am going to fucking lose the game (not a slip)
The way you were trying to get me to claim, felt like a teacher pet who was told they cant yell out the answer. Maybe you were calm and composed, but I imagined you like jumping out of your seat and giddy
I hated how long it took you to claim sheriff after unknown asked for your role, felt like you were double checking who could and could not be a cit.
Your analysis of me being a mason with mesk and TOWN matches your analytical style from mafia wars II. Ignoring setup spec favors you, but you are consistent throughout games in hating it, so to cherry pick this game and say "Kovath is saying he hates setup spec because it benefits him" is fucking trash tier.

I think there is more, and that might have been out of order. That was just random thoughts from what I remember. Ask for clarification.




only person who gives you time of day, ignore/flame him 24/7 on skype. The feels man the feels.

Wait what? So why aren't you pushing him if you have this long list of things you dislike? (Whether or not I disagree with all the things in this list)

I was reading over your play again this game, and I felt like you invested a lot more time in me and Yuki than... "made sense". Kovath is probably your most dangerous opponent, but wasted time demonstrating that "shit players are indeed shit". I dunno, you told me you went into this with a strat for every perspective, and I thought that, as someone who is quite a forceful and passionate debater, tunneling and stomping on a weakling like me and Yuki would be a really good strategy. What you've done and said kinda aligns with that as well.

After Kovath sheriff'd Yuki, you challenged me to that argument duel thingy. That was such an un-townish thing to do. It looked like you were ready to push the fucking strategy...

This is theoretical though. I still lean towards scumreading the Kovath/Yuki team. That probing of Unknown struck me as more of an argument than a real, normal "Kovath probing session". After that a bias kinda built up in my stomach.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyway, anyone counter claim Kovath sheriff role? If not then i will decide the plan to the mayor now

[Yukitaka Oni]

Anyway, anyone counter claim Kovath sheriff role? If not then i will decide the plan to the mayor now

This plzduck is reminding me about my first game...SM-F mafiacamp.....can't believe it's a shame that my plan is to spread hatred to people in that game, many shame <_<

[yzb25]

How can I answer a question if I havnt read what that question is? I had 10 pages to go through (this game takes place between 1am-6am for me mostly) so I have a lot to catch up on daily.

So thoughts throughout what has transpired.
Iced - Citizen

Kovath - I am still torn on the kovath/yzb plays. I was more inclined to see kovath as town following my second mason theory (see below), but am now returning him to an unknown slot. Yuki claimed citizen on multiple occasions before kovath claimed to be his sheriff check. Yuki also didnt want association with kovath, potentially lending to kovath being scum and check claiming an actual town, hiding his ally so that associations are harder to make. The sheriff claim doesnt sit well with me either, although that is mostly from setup spec, the rest being it was an easy claim to make with yuki already hardclaiming cit.

Mesk - Initially a town read on the mason theory. Her post quality has been low - offering little information mostly making irrelevant posts (except the duck impersonation, that is excused). Working with my 3rd mason theory (see ducks section), Mesk avoided ducks trap and claimed to have no affiliation with him, employing a cit guise instead.

Duck - Confirmed as town as myself. I originally posted about the double mason before duck seemed to 'confim' it, but with mesks second claim citizen I no longer have faith in it. I next considered that yzb/duck or kovath/duck were masons and were attempting to bait out a scum tpr play, but I have replaced that theory with duck being a solo mason, which makes the most sense. Fabricating a 2nd teammate would not only allow him to bait out someone to claim theyre partnered with him, but it also gives the illusion of more confirmed roles and forces the scum team to claim a narrower field of roles, which is exactly what I believe duck wants. There is no ellie, and if there really is, then its not me.

Unknown - Mayor.

Yuki - Ive pretty much townread yukis slot all game due to his consistency in behavior as town in other games. Its a rather weak reasoning, but there has been little else to go by. Some of his posts I have interpreted as scum coaching, but that is moot given the scum team has a chat. Yuki falls into one of my two end game results, which are at the bottom of this post.

yzb - Similar situation to kovath at the moment. Although while kovath has spent more time advancing the game by asking questions, yzb has spent a lot of time on defense and apologies, something that comes across reasonably heavy as scum motivated. His citizen claim was unsurprising, and I assume he wants to play into the 'soz im not gud, im just a shitizen, pls dont hurt me'.


Based on my above reads, the game outcome is one of the following two:
YZB - Mesk - An unexpected but equally possible setup with 1 mayor, 2 masons, 1 sheriff, 2 citizens, 2 mafia
Kovath - Yuki - A reasonable and expected setup with 1 mayor, 1 Mason, 4 citizens and 2 mafia

Im going to be off reading/posting in insanity for a bit while thats still active, and I will return here after that.

Bro, I doubt Duck really did fabricate that Mesk thing in the hopes someone would claim 2nd mason (despite not accessing mason chat). Plus, if there's already far more PRs than expected, scum wouldn't feel much pressure for claiming out of PR. If Duck really did fabricate that, I struggle to see that as a genuine town thing, because I really struggle to imagine the kind of psychology plays that Duck would use to draw out scum. It reminds me of that "omg there's no sheriff in setup" bullshit - I'm not sure if he's actually that desperate to draw out scum as a town, or if he's using these ridiculous strats that don't actually help us to look more town.

Honestly, I peeked ahead and it looks like Mesk still claims not to be in mason chat, but I still kinda think Mesk is trolling.

[yzb25]

finalyl Yeah I am the only mason. I thought it would only be a mayor and a solo mason since last game had 3 tpr, and this game is one less player so 2 tpr made sense which is why I made the post "LOL there is no sheriff. I wanted to soft both TPR's so that if/when scum claimed they would have a 50% chance of claiming into my actual role and thus I know for sure they are fake.


and IIIIIIIII WILL ALWAYS LOVE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU DO you love me to
.. guess not, GOT A HAMSTER
HAMSTERS NAME IS THRALL
HE'S LIKE A HAMSTER BECAUSE HES FURRY AND SMALL
Don't you know that you are toxic
Hola?
Como como como como
Forever alone, hilarious calix

Wow. Next page and see this.

I still don't see what you were hoping for. Scum would be extremely hesitant to claim mason anyway for obvious reasons.

[Yukitaka Oni]

5/2 1 mayor
4/2 either 1 sheriff or 1 mason confirmed
2/2 ......
If both mason and sheriff confirmed then mafia have little chance to win.
The previous setup have higher amount of player....
Eh....either mafia have to counter claim or there is either mason or sheriff is not exist in this setup....to balance the TRP

[yzb25]

I liked iced's last post, but I am skeptical with him putting me as "confirmed town"

If im mafia what I just did was a potential game ending move. I claim mason, but who is my teammate what the fuck!, nobody claims, iced my teammate goes right here!, we both receive immunity unless you really think we will get scumread magically now, and then the game ends.

No, because, if you want to be the very best, like noone ever was, you'd probably want to practice WIFOMing the same bullshit mason claim from both perspectives. In other words, you would have done it regardless of scum/not-scum.

[Yukitaka Oni]

No, because, if you want to be the very best, like noone ever was, you'd probably want to practice WIFOMing the same bullshit mason claim from both perspectives. In other words, you would have done it regardless of scum/not-scum.

I'm going to use the same quote bananachucho
Is it possible to have only one mason?

If there is only one mason, would they have an empty chat or no chat?

[Yukitaka Oni]

I'm going to use the same quote bananachucho
Is it possible to have only one mason?

If there is only one mason, would they have an empty chat or no chat?

If Calix answer the same then my theory is correct

[Calix]

Is it possible to have only one mason?

If there is only one mason, would they have an empty chat or no chat?

It is possible to have one Mason.

All Masons, regardless of number, would receive a chat.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Bingo.

[yzb25]

Thats the point, if mafia claim mason, I am in a 1v2 battle (good luck me)

If they don't know if I am mason or sheriff they might not claim at all, and if they do they might pick wrong. If they think I am sheriff, one of them might be like "oh sheriff and a mayor!, Im the lone mason boys"

Meh you live and you learn. I had fun being quackers and ellie for what it is worth.

No, because you only gave mafia the option to have a 2v1 AFTER everyone had claimed (apart from Iced). Your play still has no justification. I wouldn't go as far as scumreading it, because I heavily suspect you'd do it no matter what role you got, but this definitely does not make you more town.

[Kovath]

What about the buddying banter?

What about when Unknown said to him: "You were mafia last game. What are you doing now that is different from last game?"

And Kovath replied with the ultimate politician's response of "Your question is irrelevant. I was mafia last game but I'm town this game, so what does last game have to do with this one?"

Even though Unknown was clearly trying to make the logical point that Kovath's play isn't that different from his usual scumplay.

What about the fact Kovath seemed to indicate he didn't like the idea of "trying to find a gamebreaking strategy", regarding your sheriff proposal, but never bothered to push this point? Maybe he wanted to make the point to seem town, but knew your idea would directly play into his strategy anyway?

(Off the top of my head) (post 363)

That wasn't the point that Unknown was making. He was asking why I or no one else had bothered to bring up the first game at all, there were no points to offer from him in regards to how I was playing.

Also, if you actually read the first IM you will see that I played far differently in that game so this isn't even a correct point to make anyway.

[Yukitaka Oni]

That wasn't the point that Unknown was making. He was asking why I or no one else had bothered to bring up the first game at all, there were no points to offer from him in regards to how I was playing.

Also, if you actually read the first IM you will see that I played far differently in that game so this isn't even a correct point to make anyway.

Anyone claim mason yet?

[Kovath]

Anyone claim mason yet?

No one is claiming Mason, Duck has rescinded.

[Yukitaka Oni]

No one is claiming Mason, Duck has rescinded.

5 town/ 2 mafia
1 mayor
4 town unconfirmed/ 2 mafia
You claim sheriff and i am Shitizen like last game
2 town unconfirmed/ 2 mafia
THERE IS NO MASON IN THIS GAME TO BALANCE THE GAME!

[Kovath]

Wait what? So why aren't you pushing him if you have this long list of things you dislike? (Whether or not I disagree with all the things in this list)

I was reading over your play again this game, and I felt like you invested a lot more time in me and Yuki than... "made sense". Kovath is probably your most dangerous opponent, but wasted time demonstrating that "shit players are indeed shit". I dunno, you told me you went into this with a strat for every perspective, and I thought that, as someone who is quite a forceful and passionate debater, tunneling and stomping on a weakling like me and Yuki would be a really good strategy. What you've done and said kinda aligns with that as well.

After Kovath sheriff'd Yuki, you challenged me to that argument duel thingy. That was such an un-townish thing to do. It looked like you were ready to push the fucking strategy...

This is theoretical though. I still lean towards scumreading the Kovath/Yuki team. That probing of Unknown struck me as more of an argument than a real, normal "Kovath probing session". After that a bias kinda built up in my stomach.

You have a lot of doubts about Duck yet still believe in a Kovath / Yuki scumteam?

I'm also curious as to why you've tunneled in on Duck posts, especially those that involve me, as your "catch-up," yet still scumread me + Yuki, and you're not bothering to comment on my own posts.

[Yukitaka Oni]

5 town/ 2 mafia
1 mayor
4 town unconfirmed/ 2 mafia
You claim sheriff and i am Shitizen like last game
2 town unconfirmed/ 2 mafia
THERE IS NO MASON IN THIS GAME TO BALANCE THE GAME!

The previous setup have more player but even they put mason, it's still a 2 v 2 situation
Basically this game is smaller so Calix try to remove 1 TPR to make another 2 v 2 situation

[Yukitaka Oni]

You have a lot of doubts about Duck yet still believe in a Kovath / Yuki scumteam?

I'm also curious as to why you've tunneled in on Duck posts, especially those that involve me, as your "catch-up," yet still scumread me + Yuki, and you're not bothering to comment on my own posts.

I still refuse to believe you're the sheriff a little bit v(O.o(<!

[Yukitaka Oni]

The previous setup have more player but even they put mason, it's still a 2 v 2 situation
Basically this game is smaller so Calix try to remove 1 TPR to make another 2 v 2 situation

3v2 sorry lol.

[Yukitaka Oni]

3v2 sorry lol.

Previous setup 8 players
This setup 7 players
Basically just remove 1 mason and the situation will be the same
This is Calix plan no doubt

[yzb25]

I'm looking back at some of these posts and am also a bit curious at how... non-reactive (?) Mesk was in response to Duck's alternately direct and indirect Mason / Sheriff claims.

Yuki made this post (a while after my claim, I admit, but in response to Unknown saying I had dragged him into a group with my claim):



Meanwhile, Mesk was far more placid (as I mentioned earlier, I would have expected a far more aggressive reaction like, "OF COURSE IM TOWN"):



As another potential reaction, IMO, as a citizen targeted by a sheriff claim I would always be suspicious of the sheriff as trying to puppet me, yet I see no indication of this either.

Furthermore, when Duck progressed in his Mason claim, constantly doing this weird soft that she was probably his Mason partner, she never retaliated naturally by pushing Duck back (of course, later Duck admitted 'not knowing his partner' but I thought it was pretty overt from the start that Mesk was who he was trying to present).

Yet what she does is this:



Again, I feel like this is a really placid reaction to someone else trying to claim Mason with you as the 'obvious' partner to the rest of the players.

Taking this all together: can definitely see the scum perspective here in playing it low and not drawing attention while still pushing away the claim. Town perspective seems a lot weaker.

Of course mesk is going to give a more serious response than she usually would as town to these kinds of questions. In a normal game as town, you feel barely any pressure not to be lynched. Even if you're mislynched and town loses soon after, so what? You don't take sole responsibility, and you can always put more blame on your teammates.

But in this, the pressure is way fucking higher. If you fuck this up, you ruin the play experience for 4 other people who are probably playing harder than you, so of course you don't want to take the win from them with your idiocy.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Of course mesk is going to give a more serious response than she usually would as town to these kinds of questions. In a normal game as town, you feel barely any pressure not to be lynched. Even if you're mislynched and town loses soon after, so what? You don't take sole responsibility, and you can always put more blame on your teammates.

But in this, the pressure is way fucking higher. If you fuck this up, you ruin the play experience for 4 other people who are probably playing harder than you, so of course you don't want to take the win from them with your idiocy.

Isn't that what PLZDUCK doing right now?

[yzb25]

.... if yuki is scum kovath is always scum.


consider this post as my voted on ICED, he went from my top town to biggest scumread from that post. I migth even lynch him over yz at this point

No. Not necessarily. Not necessarily at all. Kovath and Yuki can very possibly be on separate teams. But even then, if your reads work on the basis of "oh that guy made a mistake in his opinions therefore he is scum" then you have a shitty scumreading system.

Though, I'm guessing this is probably some kind of test, and I'm gonna turn the page and feel dumb again lol.

[Kovath]

No. Not necessarily. Not necessarily at all. Kovath and Yuki can very possibly be on separate teams. But even then, if your reads work on the basis of "oh that guy made a mistake in his opinions therefore he is scum" then you have a shitty scumreading system.

Though, I'm guessing this is probably some kind of test, and I'm gonna turn the page and feel dumb again lol.

If Yuki is scum how can I be town? It could only work, theoretically, the other way around.

[yzb25]

For the rest of the game we are operating under the assumption that I am confirmed town, if anybody wants to argue this speak now, and we can debate it. If not move forward assuming everything myself and unknown has said was from a town POV.

Great. Good talk guys.

"The quackinator has revealed he has Ellie votes."

I challenge this.

On the basis that your retarded mason claim, though you have a nice little essay ready for why it makes you confirmed town, is still just a retarded mason claim that brought us no closer to finding scum.

[Kovath]

Of course mesk is going to give a more serious response than she usually would as town to these kinds of questions. In a normal game as town, you feel barely any pressure not to be lynched. Even if you're mislynched and town loses soon after, so what? You don't take sole responsibility, and you can always put more blame on your teammates.

But in this, the pressure is way fucking higher. If you fuck this up, you ruin the play experience for 4 other people who are probably playing harder than you, so of course you don't want to take the win from them with your idiocy.

Only the first part of my analysis has any relation at all to a "serious" response.

My second point was that she didn't react at all to Duck's dragging her along into his Mason claim other than to claim otherwise - she never retaliated or made any push against Duck constantly insinuating that she was his Mason partner, and which was the viewpoint espoused by a number of other players. Why? Why wouldn't a citizen be suspicious of someone trying to claim Mason besides them? Or at least have some kind of WTF reaction?

Maybe because she already knows he is town.

And your defense of Mesk in this manner is really just confirming my suspicions.

[Unknown1234]

Kovath claiming sheriff means "don't lynch Yuki. That's off limits. Kovath may not be.

[yzb25]

Um hello, world of music??? Did you read his fucking auditor conspiracy theory. This is me jumping on my STRONGEST town read. Am I taking crazy pills over here?

Look at him flip his game upside down. He HAS to attack someone. If you are real it means HE HAS A 2/3 CHANCE TO LOSE THE GAME. I just stated I am ride or die with you, is he going to 1v2 us? Yeah good luck to anyone wanting to do that, I will tire them out, you will use logic to death.

The fact his play is METHODICAL should tell you he would go for yuki as scum. If yz and iced rolled mafia, and we are where we are now, what do you think happens when BOTH of them push mesk for the miss lynch?

Kovath IF YOU ARE TOWN ICED IS 67% MAFIA
MESK IS 67^ MAFIA
YZ IS 67% MAFIA.

Ignore me, don't iso me ever. If we get to end of day, and we cant fucking find which of those 2 are the fucking mafia, then policy lynch me for being an idiot.

Ahhhhhh

I get why you're making this into a scumread now lol.

But Kovath and Yuki aren't necessarily together. It's been acknowledged that Kovath could have easily just gambited on the chance Yuki wasn't TPR, with masons and mayors flying everywhere.

Sure, it'd stop him from being able to put his supposed scum pal as town, but so what? What if they can stand on their own two feet and don't need that sheriff shit? Like, if his partner's Iced or you.

[Unknown1234]

Ducks play was reckless, stupid, and did no good except waste our time. Explain why that's a scum tell?

[Unknown1234]

I'm still debating between Kovath/Iced but I'm a little unsure of what to do with Ducks dumb play.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Ahhhhhh

I get why you're making this into a scumread now lol.

But Kovath and Yuki aren't necessarily together. It's been acknowledged that Kovath could have easily just gambited on the chance Yuki wasn't TPR, with masons and mayors flying everywhere.

Sure, it'd stop him from being able to put his supposed scum pal as town, but so what? What if they can stand on their own two feet and don't need that sheriff shit? Like, if his partner's Iced or you.

Bro, no counter claim sheriff and game can't be 2 mason. Seriously try to make logic bruh v(o.o(<

[Yukitaka Oni]

I'm still debating between Kovath/Iced but I'm a little unsure of what to do with Ducks dumb play.

Boss, there is no mason and no counter claim sheriff

[yzb25]

Cracking down on a very specific point on Duck's mason claim:



This post. Mesk + Unknown both read it as a Sheriff claim, but seriously:



No idea why no one paid attention to this; this explicitly says that Duck knows Mesk is town AND Mesk knows that Duck is town too. It pretty much was daylights to me as a mason soft, and if I was mason I would have cced his duckbutt immediately just on this wording and forced a 1v1.

Remember: no PR claims yet by that point, and Duck had already made this post:



because no Sheriff had claimed in all the hours despite him pushing it (and, as I've said before, I read the above post as a natural, gutty reaction). So, we're looking at a perspective where Duck BELIEVES that there is no Sheriff and no Mayor had revealed yet. In that case, there was strong possibility in his mind that masons were the PRs. If he is scum, he would NEVER dare to make a post as explicit as that (especially perhaps with me in the game?), specifically including the wording 'vice versa' when he could have had done without including it, easily.

Unless you wanna argue that it is optimal for scum to force a Mason 1v1 like that right off the bat, which I do not agree with, there is pretty much zero chance scum Duck does this unless he is willing to gamble on the possibility of no other masons - which, I believe, is a slim probability in his mind.

Ergo, I have strong reason to believe Duck is lone mason, leaving me to lynch one of two scum among the group of three remaining slots.

No. No, no, no.

He literally fabricated another mason partner. There's nothing to imply he'd stop at claiming mason altogether in the first place.

Even if another supposed mason group CCs, he could always step down:

"Look at my play, look at my play, how could you possibly read my play as doing anything but trying to catch out a scum? Only a town could have motives to do this."

"Besides, even if I draw out real masons, I get PRs to reveal presto, which was what I wanted from the start."

This is not towny. This was a plan he could have initiated regardless of whether or not there were masons.

Hell, if he is town, he might have been a fucking citizen from the start and just floating with this lone mason claim because it suits him.

As I said, he wants to be the very best, like noone ever was, if "noob town mislynches because they can't understand my play", he doesn't mind - this is all part of his training, anyway. He didn't gamethrow, regardless of alignment - he's not to blame if bad town is bad.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Ahhhhhh

I get why you're making this into a scumread now lol.

But Kovath and Yuki aren't necessarily together. It's been acknowledged that Kovath could have easily just gambited on the chance Yuki wasn't TPR, with masons and mayors flying everywhere.

Sure, it'd stop him from being able to put his supposed scum pal as town, but so what? What if they can stand on their own two feet and don't need that sheriff shit? Like, if his partner's Iced or you.

Yes but you said Yuki being mafia does not = kovath being mafia which is false.

It is NOT POSSIBLE for kovath to be town, IF yuki is mafia. Vice versa is not true as you pointed out, well we pointed out years ago, but you did now.

and yes I am confirmed town, so deal with it and move on.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm still debating between Kovath/Iced but I'm a little unsure of what to do with Ducks dumb play.

You can argue it was dumb all you want. Maybe in 9/10 games it was dumb. However in this very specific game it gave us a confirmed town read. Maybe it will overall hurt the town, but for the moment there are 2 confirmed town.

[yzb25]

zzzz I am not sure if this is correct, but I feel withholding it will be a detriment to town.

I am VT. If Kovath is fake, it means we started the game with 1tpr.

I rather not letting me being a "tpr" wrongly influence our decision.

POINT PROVEN.

(Assuming this is you switching to cit claim)

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Yeah reading through yz's posts recently makes me think this is the world, and if I am wrong riperino.

Unknown-mayor
duck-mason
kovath-sheriff
yuki-citizen
iced-citizen
yz-mafia
meskers-mafia

[yzb25]

I limited scums fake claim ability. Unless you are fake, but then we would have lost to you anyway because just a mayor would be tough to believe, and somebody would claim at some point I think.

I am confirmed town, I think the focus should be on us finding the mafia team and not why I did the things I did.

"I am confirmed town, because of why I did the things I did"

"I think the focus should be on us finding the mafia team and not why I did the things I did."

The fact I still abide by previous logic and don't scumread this contrived logic is really tickling my autism now heheh.