S-FM 205: Instant Mafia 2.0

[Kovath]

I didn't say that, stop arguing with the mayor I mean really do you always need to try to fight with me?

Your post was short, and yet in the time you were reading it took longer than it should have to write up a claim.

I think this game is pretty strong evidence that I don't always try to fight with you? And also, "lol I'm Mayor stop arguing with me" is a really terrible argument.

I wrote my post and posted it when I meant to, I don't understand this argument you're trying to make.

[Kovath]

I am aware, but If I rolled mafia and I saw that every fucking town could have been confirmed if no paranoia, I would be livid. Personally I thought there was two sheriffs and no other town power roles before the rolecards were given.

This is a game of paranoia.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

So this is going to sound crazy, but I actually noticed kovath softing TPR multiple times today and I actually believe he is sheriff. I will hard claim mason with whoever the fuck "Ellie" is in my private chat. I think it is mesk, but I don't actually know who the other mason is yet they only posted dumb shit so far.

If it is mesk then the game is looking to be :

mayor-unknown
sheriff-kovath
citizen-yuki
mason-mesk?
mason-duck

mafia-iced
mafia-yz

Kovath yuki/iced yz are both believeable mafia teams if we want to setup spec, more likely iced yz IMO. Based on reads iced would have completely fucking fooled me, but I suppose I am wrong. The reason I believe kovath is I felt a kind of jittery excited tone to his "hardclaim duck" as if he wanted me to claim sheriff to get counter claimed. I think as mafia he is more methodical and slow paced and plans it out. It was odd that he needed time to claim just now when unknown asked him, but I don't read into that too much.

[yzb25]

Because the quote you used from Duck, where he couldn't see anything other than a town POV from one post of mine, was later and in response to a completely different train of thought than the one you highlighted about perceived buddying (or "assimilation", if you prefer) from you. In fact, after the post I made about seeing the same undercurrent of buddying, Duck questioned me about why I didn't ask him what he was thinking first instead of spelling it out.

Meanwhile, the actual Duck quote you utilized was when I responded to Unknown making some insinuation about the fact that I was scum in the previous game; not related at all. Why did you cherry-pick these quotes to make the point that I'm apparently 'feeding Duck shit' ?

Also you spend a lot of time distinguishing buddying from assimilation, yet say "sometimes when towns say "attempted buddying", what they actually mean is "attempted assimilation"." But what is your actual point? You make a semantic distinction when most town players (which you admit) group both of these approaches under buddying; all you had to do was say, 'this is one way to think of buddying. Kovath seems to be doing it here, in this quote, with Duck.' Furthermore, you leave gaps in your logic unexplained from your spiel to reach "lol Duck is shiet and is so fking bad."

What is your read on me?

Yeah, I went back and looked at the context of Duck's quote and how I used it in the post, and it's easy read the two quotes as a continuous thing, as if I meant the second quote as a reply to the first. But it was not my intention to misuse a quote from 2 pages ago to develop a master-scumread on Duck.

Anyway, my point was that me asking you to explain my opinion to DUCK cannot be read as assimilation (Though I was agreeing with you, fundamentally I was disagreeing with DUCK's thought process), but it can be read as me chumming up to you. On the other hand, you going "yeah we both see those buddying undertones", without even bothering to debate DUCK on the sheriff strat. much, was assimilation-y.

But I didn't write the entire thing because of something so pedantic. I was trying to make DUCK see what a good scumread is and what a bad scumread is. A good read ignores textbook logic like "scum try to buddy". A good read simply tries to understand others without preconceived notions. Maybe I underestimated DUCK, but he really doesn't seem aware of that, or he's posting reads he knows are flawed to try and draw a response from others.

The conclusion was tongue-in-cheek and extremely over-the-top, obviously. You're overreading it. I took my ultimate point to be a part that didn't need a blow-by-blow explanation, but perhaps I was wrong to assume that. Anyway, DUCK noticed and scumread the irrelevant kind of buddying, without noting the relevant kind. That was what he did shit.

I don't read anyone either way yet. You have simply done a few things which coincide nicely with a scummy explanation but a town explanation for your actions is not impossible, either. DW, I'll post more detailed reads on you, buddy :3

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

... wait I am a mason and not mafia right? LOL

[Unknown1234]

... wait I am a mason and not mafia right? LOL

What?

[Unknown1234]

I think this game is pretty strong evidence that I don't always try to fight with you? And also, "lol I'm Mayor stop arguing with me" is a really terrible argument.

I wrote my post and posted it when I meant to, I don't understand this argument you're trying to make.

Lol, I just want you to stop arguing with me as it gets nowhere,

[Kovath]

... wait I am a mason and not mafia right? LOL

Masons are not host-confirmed to each other. Which checks out with your Ellie story.

But not telling each other who you are... I don't know why you wouldn't LOL.

But why were you so sure on Mesk, then?

[Kovath]

So this is going to sound crazy, but I actually noticed kovath softing TPR multiple times today and I actually believe he is sheriff. I will hard claim mason with whoever the fuck "Ellie" is in my private chat. I think it is mesk, but I don't actually know who the other mason is yet they only posted dumb shit so far.

If it is mesk then the game is looking to be :

mayor-unknown
sheriff-kovath
citizen-yuki
mason-mesk?
mason-duck

mafia-iced
mafia-yz

Kovath yuki/iced yz are both believeable mafia teams if we want to setup spec, more likely iced yz IMO. Based on reads iced would have completely fucking fooled me, but I suppose I am wrong. The reason I believe kovath is I felt a kind of jittery excited tone to his "hardclaim duck" as if he wanted me to claim sheriff to get counter claimed. I think as mafia he is more methodical and slow paced and plans it out. It was odd that he needed time to claim just now when unknown asked him, but I don't read into that too much.

I never really thought you were sheriff, I wanted to pin down a mason hard-claim because that would have earned an instant strong townread from me, and then I could have proceeded to narrow down to yzb / Iced / Unknown (well, of course Unknown now is Mayor so...).

So now, my townread is weaker because of your amorphous manner (which, though, is understandable also from a town perspective).

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Yeah, I went back and looked at the context of Duck's quote and how I used it in the post, and it's easy read the two quotes as a continuous thing, as if I meant the second quote as a reply to the first. But it was not my intention to misuse a quote from 2 pages ago to develop a master-scumread on Duck.

Anyway, my point was that me asking you to explain my opinion to DUCK cannot be read as assimilation (Though I was agreeing with you, fundamentally I was disagreeing with DUCK's thought process), but it can be read as me chumming up to you. On the other hand, you going "yeah we both see those buddying undertones", without even bothering to debate DUCK on the sheriff strat. much, was assimilation-y.

But I didn't write the entire thing because of something so pedantic. I was trying to make DUCK see what a good scumread is and what a bad scumread is. A good read ignores textbook logic like "scum try to buddy". A good read simply tries to understand others without preconceived notions. Maybe I underestimated DUCK, but he really doesn't seem aware of that, or he's posting reads he knows are flawed to try and draw a response from others.

The conclusion was tongue-in-cheek and extremely over-the-top, obviously. You're overreading it. I took my ultimate point to be a part that didn't need a blow-by-blow explanation, but perhaps I was wrong to assume that. Anyway, DUCK noticed and scumread the irrelevant kind of buddying, without noting the relevant kind. That was what he did shit.

I don't read anyone either way yet. You have simply done a few things which coincide nicely with a scummy explanation but a town explanation for your actions is not impossible, either. DW, I'll post more detailed reads on you, buddy :3

I don't get it? you say I noticed one buddying attempt, but not the other? I scum read BOTH yours and kovaths, except I read kovath's as more scummy, which you are saying I did the opposite? So thanks?

What do you think about the claims, and if you are ellie use your real fucking name in the chat.

[Kovath]

I don't get it? you say I noticed one buddying attempt, but not the other? I scum read BOTH yours and kovaths, except I read kovath's as more scummy, which you are saying I did the opposite? So thanks?

What do you think about the claims, and if you are ellie use your real fucking name in the chat.

Why the hell were you so strong on Mesk if you didn't know who Ellie was, and did you reveal yourself as Duck in the Mason chat off the bat?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Masons are not host-confirmed to each other. Which checks out with your Ellie story.

But not telling each other who you are... I don't know why you wouldn't LOL.

But why were you so sure on Mesk, then?

Mesk was really angry when we lynched without her (godfather/consigliere)

I thought she was calling me a douchebag because of our private chat. I thought her "wanting to do good this game" was her saying "oh duck cares about my opinion this time( I posted something about mesk), and we can work as a team this time". I was a bit confused when she claimed me as citizen or scum, but I thought it was her way of keeping us low.

If mesk can confirm in mason chat it is her that would be great.

[Kovath]

Mesk was really angry when we lynched without her (godfather/consigliere)

I thought she was calling me a douchebag because of our private chat. I thought her "wanting to do good this game" was her saying "oh duck cares about my opinion this time( I posted something about mesk), and we can work as a team this time". I was a bit confused when she claimed me as citizen or scum, but I thought it was her way of keeping us low.

If mesk can confirm in mason chat it is her that would be great.

Did you reveal your intent to soft Sheriff in the mason chat?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I never really thought you were sheriff, I wanted to pin down a mason hard-claim because that would have earned an instant strong townread from me, and then I could have proceeded to narrow down to yzb / Iced / Unknown (well, of course Unknown now is Mayor so...).

So now, my townread is weaker because of your amorphous manner (which, though, is understandable also from a town perspective).

Quackers. Is the name, mason chat shitposting is my game.

[Kovath]

Quackers. Is the name, mason chat shitposting is my game.

Paraphrase mason chat. Include shitposts and stuff if you think they are relevant.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Did you reveal your intent to soft Sheriff in the mason chat?

No, last time I did that in singer chat, Superjack called me an idiot and not to do it.

Only person I told that about was you.

Well what the fuck do we do now. We know everyone's roles pretty much. Do we wait to see if yz or iced counter you as sheriff?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Paraphrase mason chat. Include shitposts and stuff if you think they are relevant.

Yeah, no. If she/he wants to do it be my guest.

[Unknown1234]

Yeah, no. If she/he wants to do it be my guest.

I'm secretly Ellie.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm secretly Ellie.

OH LOL you are a fucking troll using the name Ellie and fucking emoji type smiley faces. I actually thought you were MESK LOL. I have to go re read what she posted now.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Kovath what took you so long to claim sheriff? It clearly wasn't your post, makes me believe you were reading to make sure Yuki claimed citizen.

Plzleaveduck is spreading hatred, misread, shitposting discrimination >_>
Seriously can his post get anymore Scumier than this <_<???

[Kovath]

OH LOL you are a fucking troll using the name Ellie and fucking emoji type smiley faces. I actually thought you were MESK LOL. I have to go re read what she posted now.

He's trolling you, god, he's the Mayor...

[Unknown1234]

@yzb why did you avoid a claim?

[Unknown1234]

@yzb25

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Hmm mesk is probably a citizen. I guess her citizen or scum comment was directed on my attitude rather than what her role was. She has had her towny tone vibe, and I don't think mesk as scum would call me cit or scum, but perhaps tpr or scum. I still town read iced, but I think yz is going to be a correct lynch. I still will need more from mesk now though.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

He's trolling you, god, he's the Mayor...

Oh jesus christ. Will I get modkilled if I delete posts

[Kovath]

Oh jesus christ. Will I get modkilled if I delete posts

I'm not going to proceed in read progression until I get confirmation from both on who the Masons are (or claim to be at least lol)

[Unknown1234]

Plzleaveduck is spreading hatred, misread, shitposting discrimination >_>
Seriously can his post get anymore Scumier than this <_<???

Duck is a normal hate spreader, don't forget to have an accessible umbrella Incase he explodes.

Does his hate come off scummy?

[Yukitaka Oni]

Duck is a normal hate spreader, don't forget to have an accessible umbrella Incase he explodes.

Does his hate come off scummy?

Eh.....even how much hatred he is, he shouldn't claim game throw by blind lynch ya know? Mislynch is a scum behavior :/

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Plzleaveduck is spreading hatred, misread, shitposting discrimination >_>
Seriously can his post get anymore Scumier than this <_<???

Can you explain the scum motivation behind me flaming your play when as scum I need to make friends?

As town, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes

As mafia, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes, if you are my partner, otherwise No.

It is NAI, I can do it as both alignments and it is easy to do with no risk. You can not say my posts to you are scummy because they are not. I do the exact same posts verbatim every game, every alignment. I can give you scummier if you that is what you want.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Can you explain the scum motivation behind me flaming your play when as scum I need to make friends?

As town, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes

As mafia, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes, if you are my partner, otherwise No.

It is NAI, I can do it as both alignments and it is easy to do with no risk. You can not say my posts to you are scummy because they are not. I do the exact same posts verbatim every game, every alignment. I can give you scummier if you that is what you want.

If you that is what you want. <----
-> claim I'm bad English
-> many kek
-> Rolf (rough on floor laughing)

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Eh.....even how much hatred he is, he shouldn't claim game throw by blind lynch ya know? Mislynch is a scum behavior :/

It is not a game throw to lynch a useless player. I do not know your alignment. Even now if I lynched you (I would never get the votes), it would not be gamethrowing. The only person's alignment I know is mine, and christmas tree fucking mystery person, who can't be you for obvious reasons. If I policy lynching you over a mafia read, it is not throwing, but deterring future shit behavior. If you are not going to give us content to prove you are town, you are going to get lynched. I don't agree with the "let them lurk" meta this site has as it just encourages future behavior.

I will assume mesk is the mason, which leads me confused because, against the back of my mind, I believe kovath which means the mafia team HAS TO BE yz and Iced. I have to decide is my mafia read on yz strong enough to break my town read on iced, or is my town read on iced so strong to break my mafia read on yz, and flip on kovath.

[Yukitaka Oni]

It is not a game throw to lynch a useless player. I do not know your alignment. Even now if I lynched you (I would never get the votes), it would not be gamethrowing. The only person's alignment I know is mine, and christmas tree fucking mystery person, who can't be you for obvious reasons. If I policy lynching you over a mafia read, it is not throwing, but deterring future shit behavior. If you are not going to give us content to prove you are town, you are going to get lynched. I don't agree with the "let them lurk" meta this site has as it just encourages future behavior.

I will assume mesk is the mason, which leads me confused because, against the back of my mind, I believe kovath which means the mafia team HAS TO BE yz and Iced. I have to decide is my mafia read on yz strong enough to break my town read on iced, or is my town read on iced so strong to break my mafia read on yz, and flip on kovath.

-> blind lynch
-> no evidence
-> willing to loose (WILLING TO LOOSE) is not a game throw
---->

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

-> blind lynch
-> no evidence
-> willing to loose (WILLING TO LOOSE) is not a game throw
---->

There is no evidence because you don't play the game, but sit here and be useless. You can waste time arguing with me, you sure as hell can be productive.

Willing to accept a loss to improve play in future game will increase skilled players winrate overtime. This is why I will improve, and you always remain a shit tier player.

[yzb25]

Yzb25 claim.

Yes sir! Prepare to be blown away!

Cit.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Yes sir! Prepare to be blown away!

Cit.

So do you think the masons or Kovath is fake.

You have to think one of us is fake or you are confirmed mafia.

[Yukitaka Oni]

There is no evidence because you don't play the game, but sit here and be useless. You can waste time arguing with me, you sure as hell can be productive.

Willing to accept a loss to improve play in future game will increase skilled players winrate overtime. This is why I will improve, and you always remain a shit tier player.

----> everyone claim I'm not shitpost
---> you believe I'm shitposting because you say so
--> such solid logic
-> wow
>

[Unknown1234]

Duck we have one lynch you know that right?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Duck we have one lynch you know that right?

I am aware.

Once mesk claims mason, and I assume iced will claim citizen or sheriff we have worst case a 2v2 to solve.

[Yukitaka Oni]

Duck we have one lynch you know that right?

Hey mayor.
Mafia has 3 fake claim plan
-> fake citizen, most basic plan for a flip coin
-> fake sheriff to random claim other people is innocent
-> fake mason for Mafia chat
Which one you thing they're claiming?

[yzb25]

I don't get it? you say I noticed one buddying attempt, but not the other? I scum read BOTH yours and kovaths, except I read kovath's as more scummy, which you are saying I did the opposite? So thanks?

What do you think about the claims, and if you are ellie use your real fucking name in the chat.

You didn't notice the other buddying attempt no, or at least I didn't see you note it out loud.

You sorta said "hmm Kovath isn't his usual tone.", but you didn't seem to connect the dots.

I'm not sure if I'm being really vague and shitty with my communication, or if you're misreading me in the same way you're misreading Yuki.

[yzb25]

@yzb25

I'm reading and replying. I've left my PC on several times while AFK, and I've stopped to take breaks and think, but I'm not avoiding anything as far as I'm aware.

[yzb25]

Hmm mesk is probably a citizen. I guess her citizen or scum comment was directed on my attitude rather than what her role was. She has had her towny tone vibe, and I don't think mesk as scum would call me cit or scum, but perhaps tpr or scum. I still town read iced, but I think yz is going to be a correct lynch. I still will need more from mesk now though.

I'm confused about how mason works. If you're both mason, why don't you just immediately confirm eachother in the chat? It says host doesn't say names, but surely you'd immediately name yourselves to eachother? Am I missing something important?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

You didn't notice the other buddying attempt no, or at least I didn't see you note it out loud.

You sorta said "hmm Kovath isn't his usual tone.", but you didn't seem to connect the dots.

I'm not sure if I'm being really vague and shitty with my communication, or if you're misreading me in the same way you're misreading Yuki.

I did not misread yuki at all..... you both are complete idiots, or I am beyond fucking batshit insane ( both possible).

I connected the fucking dots with kovath, I just phrased it in a way that would give me more information. Notice how I said kovath is town, but he is in line with his mafia play. He has done these same question buddying attempts in my previous games with him, so rather then just state it for what it is, I try to get information off of it. If I flat out say "oh im on to you, back off, I lose a an opportunity for a potential mafia to make a bigger mistake.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I'm confused about how mason works. If you're both mason, why don't you just immediately confirm eachother in the chat? It says host doesn't say names, but surely you'd immediately name yourselves to eachother? Am I missing something important?

I just read mason role. Seem like host allow them to chat each other but not allowed to confirm each other

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm confused about how mason works. If you're both mason, why don't you just immediately confirm eachother in the chat? It says host doesn't say names, but surely you'd immediately name yourselves to eachother? Am I missing something important?

I named myself quackers, they named themselves Ellie. I don't know if I was supposed to understand the reference, but I did not. The typing pattern and the common leads me to believe it is a female over male faking to be a female, so mesk. Mesk's comments in game suggest to me that she is Ellie. It would be optimal for us to mason chat confirm each other, but we suck. I think she/he knew I was duck by the name quackers at the very least.

[Unknown1234]

To be completely honest, duck and MESK are overdoing this. If you both are town I'm actually ashamed in your communication.

[Yukitaka Oni]

I did not misread yuki at all..... you both are complete idiots, or I am beyond fucking batshit insane ( both possible).

I connected the fucking dots with kovath, I just phrased it in a way that would give me more information. Notice how I said kovath is town, but he is in line with his mafia play. He has done these same question buddying attempts in my previous games with him, so rather then just state it for what it is, I try to get information off of it. If I flat out say "oh im on to you, back off, I lose a an opportunity for a potential mafia to make a bigger mistake.

No....I was wrong about you.....you're not greedy......you're

[Unknown1234]

Hey mayor.
Mafia has 3 fake claim plan
-> fake citizen, most basic plan for a flip coin
-> fake sheriff to random claim other people is innocent
-> fake mason for Mafia chat
Which one you thing they're claiming?

Citizen(s) claims seem too easy.

[yzb25]

Can you explain the scum motivation behind me flaming your play when as scum I need to make friends?

As town, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes

As mafia, does trying to get you to play the game help me achieve my win con? Yes, if you are my partner, otherwise No.

It is NAI, I can do it as both alignments and it is easy to do with no risk. You can not say my posts to you are scummy because they are not. I do the exact same posts verbatim every game, every alignment. I can give you scummier if you that is what you want.

Theoretically, I can see where you're coming from, but in practice, this isn't really the case.

Trying to make the inactives play is something I see scums do all the time, because it's really easy to fail at anyway and you look towny doing it. I've seen so many scums whine "pfff these inactive scum are dragging us down, blahblahblah" to win brownie points - heck, I do it.

Yuki's comment is clearly jokish, but you've taken it seriously so you can say out loud you deserve brownie points. I dunno if that's just a reflection of your personality though =P

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

To be completely honest, duck and MESK are overdoing this. If you both are town I'm actually ashamed in your communication.

we have been having relationship issues. She is hot and cold man, you know this. She is my meskers though!!