S-FM 210: Give or Take

[secondpassing]

I dont think any scum had anything to gain from mattzeds death and thts y I think vigi killed him. Pretty sure banana just claimed that she killed him lol

Well MattZed said he'd try to take the position of town leader today, and he's also experienced.

I can't tell Banana is being serious or not.
What do you think of GameFreak Eggy?

[secondpassing]

Given the votes yesterday, we can also do day-kill analysis.

DarknessB- instigator of the train, might not be him
Yzb25-the hammer man, would also explain the MattZed kill to faux-frame himself. I think it's rather early for scum to make this play.
GameFreak- would mean he is lurking scum
BananaCucho- I think she kinda actually town read NeverUnlucky in a post yet decided to go anti-town and lynch him anyway. Possible use of apathy to cover it up.
Titus- pushed back at NU even though she thought he thought she was town. People and their anti town plays. Who I think to be scum, yet, she's on vacation.
MiniZed- has yet to answer my questions and also reactively pushed back. I'm thinking that he planned to use his new playstyle, rolled scum, and is trying to hide his fear through logical explanations.

Now to sort out who is not playing all that great and who is scum.

[Titus]

Can someone tell me (best if it was Titus herself) why the Titus train dissipated yesterday? How is she town now?

Titus, can you pick out a post where you were "bleeding town emotion"? I don't see any.

Though she saw that Never Unlucky saw her as town, she never unvoted him. That's rather opportunistic.

Her play has continued to be reactive. Calling posts against her as shade by Never Unlucky.

My entire ISO bleeds town, but you indicated that you didn't want to see it. Being wagoned for being experienced is shitty. Scum would not dare want me to get the information I need.

You continue to throw "reactive" out as a scummy buzzword. Reactive is town indicative. Town players react to new information and pushes. Take the last game that finished. I initially crumbed my lookout because I thought Duck tracked me to the kill. We react to others to form reads. There is no such thing as a good town player that doesn't react.

[Titus]

That's silly.

SP is probably scum who isn't even reading at this point but just wanting to play safe with a static read.

[Titus]

I am the invest-vig, didn't you hear?

Mason buddy, who are we lynchin?

[Titus]

Given the votes yesterday, we can also do day-kill analysis.

DarknessB- instigator of the train, might not be him
Yzb25-the hammer man, would also explain the MattZed kill to faux-frame himself. I think it's rather early for scum to make this play.
GameFreak- would mean he is lurking scum
BananaCucho- I think she kinda actually town read NeverUnlucky in a post yet decided to go anti-town and lynch him anyway. Possible use of apathy to cover it up.
Titus- pushed back at NU even though she thought he thought she was town. People and their anti town plays. Who I think to be scum, yet, she's on vacation.
MiniZed- has yet to answer my questions and also reactively pushed back. I'm thinking that he planned to use his new playstyle, rolled scum, and is trying to hide his fear through logical explanations.

Now to sort out who is not playing all that great and who is scum.

1) Gives a townread on Darkness solely for starting a train w no context. They're town but this is a soft read than can be retreated from.
2) Faux framing is Wifom nonsense.
3) just calls someone a lurker
4) shade by theory rafting on banana
5) of course I pushed back at a player voting me despite slipping they though I was town. 99/100 times that is scum. Town either policy hammer or defend townreads.
6) there's the reactive buzzword again. Plus, he paints logic as scummy. If he's ever proven wrong the "logical explanation" is just scum to him.

There is no scumhunting here just mass shade and exit hatches.

-vote secondpassing

[secondpassing]

My entire ISO bleeds town, but you indicated that you didn't want to see it. Being wagoned for being experienced is shitty. Scum would not dare want me to get the information I need.

You continue to throw "reactive" out as a scummy buzzword. Reactive is town indicative. Town players react to new information and pushes. Take the last game that finished. I initially crumbed my lookout because I thought Duck tracked me to the kill. We react to others to form reads. There is no such thing as a good town player that doesn't react.

I didn't say I didn't want to see it, I indicated I didn't see this {town emotion}. Me ISOing you shouldn't help me to see this emotion, that's why I asked you to pick it out for me.

I didn't wagon you for being experienced. Also, they indicated they indicated that you leaned scum for them. Would still like an explanation from others why they decided not to vote you anymore.

You ignored my statement on Never Unlucky, why didn't you unvote him?

I'm saying "reactive" as more being "self-serving". Your reactions are to scum read the people who scum read you. You hopped onto Never Unlucky's train as it suited your interests. You're not scum hunting, you're mislynch fishing. I wonder how long you can keep it up before the rest of town realizes what you are doing.

You say my stagnant vote is scum indicative, but it is you who has given me no reason to trust you. Where are you staked? Where are your strong opinions?

[secondpassing]

1) Gives a townread on Darkness solely for starting a train w no context. They're town but this is a soft read than can be retreated from.
2) Faux framing is Wifom nonsense.
3) just calls someone a lurker
4) shade by theory rafting on banana
5) of course I pushed back at a player voting me despite slipping they though I was town. 99/100 times that is scum. Town either policy hammer or defend townreads.
6) there's the reactive buzzword again. Plus, he paints logic as scummy. If he's ever proven wrong the "logical explanation" is just scum to him.

There is no scumhunting here just mass shade and exit hatches.

-vote secondpassing

1) DarknessB is given a "pass" due to the audacity of his push. I'm looking for piggybacked, scum piggyback. His scum read of Never Unlucky makes sense according to the way DB reads people.
2) I called it WiFOM nonsense. I'm not sorting out Yzb according to the lynch yesterday.
3) is a lurker, what's your point?
4) "it's not shade if it is true"- words of the fallen NU
5) so you policy hammered? Wow.
6) solely using logic is very AI. See me + DUCKK interaction from SFm spies as well as Jealous. Using logic obscures emotion, which can give people away.


You just called my opinions crap without setting a counter opinion. Yours is shade. mine is original thought. Try again.

-vote Titus

[MiniZed]

I don't actually know what you've produced from asking questions. What did you learn? Are you continuing to use that to incorporate into your playstyle? How has it worked out for you?
Were you surprised by Never Unlucky's flip?

"I'm emotional" is what I got from your self-claim(?) Correct me if I'm wrong. Though you are "emotional" I can't read what emotion you're trying to convey to me-- which may be because I'm not too in touch with emotions right now. How are you feeling? What are you fearing/what could go wrong?

I think convince is the right word. I'm asking what view do you have that is different than mine, and that you need to convince me of.
There is but one truth-- I am town, and three are scum. If we do not find the answer, then I am dead.
What would you like to convince me of?

Weird that you say this now because earlier you said they were helpful. I was asking questions to people because I know not everyone likes to talk. Bringing the spotlight on people usually makes them more open to answering and being more logical.

This is annoying, it feels like you are trying to self-analyze me which to me seems like a huge distraction.

What kind of question is this? If I didn't think he was scum I could have spent yesterday lynching another of my scum-reads.

More of you analyzing me. I don't understand how I am trying to "convey" anything. It just happens in games, I'm not purposely trying to be emotional. Certain things just piss me off easily or annoy me, or certain things just make me change my mood. I don't try to play with emotion SP.

I don't want to go into a "deep" conversation. If you explain why this is relevant or rephrase the question to be more clear then I will answer.

If you are talking about reads, I'm sure I've made that clear. If talking about views, I'm unsure what you mean by this. I don't know your view if you don't mean reads/relations so this is really confusing.

I hope you don't expect me to "know" you are "town", so I don't know why I need to convince you in particular of anything.

I will answer this in the way I think it is being asked. I'm fairly confident that Banana's claim isn't a scum claim, because it draws way too much attention. I also know that claiming it could have been her way of trying to take a bullet as a citizen, which to me also feels like town. Don't know why scum would want to do that as they would have spoken before the claim and could have planned more thoroughly.

[MiniZed]

Mesk (Me) = Citizen
MattZed = Citizen
Never Unlucky = Citizen

Eggy = Citizen/Scum - leaning more Citizen
YZB - potential scum
Banana - potenital scum
SecondPassing - potential scum
Titus
Darkness
Unknown
GameFreak, should probably be replaced by now I have this slot as Null
Gingerape

at this moment honestly, I'm just dying for YZB, Banana Or SecondPassing to die. all three of those deaths to me are definitely telling.
I feel like a MattZed kill was just random one. Even I personally would have gone on to today tunneling MattZed, so I don't see why he needed to die.

Unless of course someone thought he was a TPR.

What happened to me other then "Unknown" as you previously said I was defending Banana.

Are Darkness and Titus town-reads? If so have you noted Banana and Titus's interactions before her claim and find it suspicious?

When has Secondpassing been a scum-read, and why do you find his death to be telling?

[MiniZed]

I dont think any scum had anything to gain from mattzeds death and thts y I think vigi killed him. Pretty sure banana just claimed that she killed him lol

She also claimed that her Titus and Yzb were the scum team. I'm pretty sure it's jokes.

[Titus]

@SP Yeah you did say you didn't care for my emotion before.
Logic doesn't obscure emotion. Being clinical is an emotional state. That's scumreading someone for bring too smart.
Now, you're trying to turn my scumread into a policy vote. Someone who engages in an act tone by scum 99/100 is not a policy lynch.

I have very much put forth original thought and you're again trying to dismiss the mountain of evidence against you as shade or "logic hiding things".

[MiniZed]

Given the votes yesterday, we can also do day-kill analysis.

DarknessB- instigator of the train, might not be him
Yzb25-the hammer man, would also explain the MattZed kill to faux-frame himself. I think it's rather early for scum to make this play.
GameFreak- would mean he is lurking scum
BananaCucho- I think she kinda actually town read NeverUnlucky in a post yet decided to go anti-town and lynch him anyway. Possible use of apathy to cover it up.
Titus- pushed back at NU even though she thought he thought she was town. People and their anti town plays. Who I think to be scum, yet, she's on vacation.
MiniZed- has yet to answer my questions and also reactively pushed back. I'm thinking that he planned to use his new playstyle, rolled scum, and is trying to hide his fear through logical explanations.

Now to sort out who is not playing all that great and who is scum.

Do you feel him starting a new train on yzb as town as well? Is this all you think about him?

Are you implying that they did the early Kill, or that you don't think they did. Why would scum make a big deal about not voting and then do it anyways?

Why lurking scum in particular?

Hold on, this is some of the most broken logic being used. How does NU town-reading Titus impact her read in the slightest bit? If NU was scum he could just town-read Titus and what you're saying is that makes Titus scummy for still voting him?

I haven't even spoken prior to you asking the questions, so clearly I'm not avoiding them as you put it out to be. I don't understand your train of thought in the slightest bit.

You missed Mesk and Eggy.

[yzb25]

@SP Yeah you did say you didn't care for my emotion before.
Logic doesn't obscure emotion. Being clinical is an emotional state. That's scumreading someone for bring too smart.
Now, you're trying to turn my scumread into a policy vote. Someone who engages in an act tone by scum 99/100 is not a policy lynch.

I have very much put forth original thought and you're again trying to dismiss the mountain of evidence against you as shade or "logic hiding things".

What do you think of the fiasco regarding me, Darkness, BC and Eggy so far? You haven't commented on it at all, as far as I can see.

[yzb25]

Real talk, @BananaCucho , (think that's how you spell it) I really don't think Eggy is part of an effort to frame me. Eggy doesn't even see the Mattzed death as a reason to scumread me. As far as I can see, the fact that I hammered yesterday is pretty much the main reason he scumreads me, along with some residual suspicion from that PL proposal. He also hasn't seen the reasoning I gave for why I townread NU, and apparently hasn't seen the reasoning everyone gave about why killing NU to confirm his alignment was probably more beneficial.

Remember, Eggy has like no sense of how he appears to other players for this game at least. He made EIGHT consecutive posts responding to that PL strategy I threw out there yesterday, just because he got tunnel vision on scumreading me. It wasn't even like that was his only thought - he had loads of town-perspective sounding thoughts if I remember correctly. Anyway, his lack of self-image awareness makes me slightly townread him tbh lol.

Plus, if there is a framing effort, why have you voted Eggy rather than DarknessB, who had finished springboarding off a Night-kill-analysis LESS THAN TEN MINUTES after d2 had started, and resurrected outdated arguments as part of his new push? Did DB look sincere as opposed to Eggy? Weird, because I read it the other way around (DB didn't seem sincere).

After reading through this d2 start again, I don't even think DB is part of a framing effort. It looks like he was going to launch this vote at the start of d2 regardless. It looks like Mattzed's death was a cherry on the cake. Honestly, there's a good chance DB just wanted to plant a vote on me right from daystart and test my reaction.

Anyway, last point about this. If there really is a framing effort (and if so, it's been done in a really strategically retarded way), I doubt Eggy AND Dankness are part of it, because it would be way too stupid for two scums to jump on this opportunistic train at such close times. Most likely they said something like "wait for some time to pass then jump on" to make it more natural-looking.

[yzb25]

Real talk, @BananaCucho , (think that's how you spell it) I really don't think Eggy is part of an effort to frame me. Eggy doesn't even see the Mattzed death as a reason to scumread me. As far as I can see, the fact that I hammered yesterday is pretty much the main reason he scumreads me, along with some residual suspicion from that PL proposal. He also hasn't seen the reasoning I gave for why I townread NU, and apparently hasn't seen the reasoning everyone gave about why killing NU to confirm his alignment was probably more beneficial.

Remember, Eggy has like no sense of how he appears to other players for this game at least. He made EIGHT consecutive posts responding to that PL strategy I threw out there yesterday, just because he got tunnel vision on scumreading me. It wasn't even like that was his only thought - he had loads of town-perspective sounding thoughts if I remember correctly. Anyway, his lack of self-image awareness makes me slightly townread him tbh lol.

Plus, if there is a framing effort, why have you voted Eggy rather than DarknessB, who had finished springboarding off a Night-kill-analysis LESS THAN TEN MINUTES after d2 had started, and resurrected outdated arguments as part of his new push? Did DB look sincere as opposed to Eggy? Weird, because I read it the other way around (DB didn't seem sincere).

After reading through this d2 start again, I don't even think DB is part of a framing effort. It looks like he was going to launch this vote at the start of d2 regardless. It looks like Mattzed's death was a cherry on the cake. Honestly, there's a good chance DB just wanted to plant a vote on me right from daystart and test my reaction.

Anyway, last point about this. If there really is a framing effort (and if so, it's been done in a really strategically retarded way), I doubt Eggy AND Dankness are part of it, because it would be way too stupid for two scums to jump on this opportunistic train at such close times. Most likely they said something like "wait for some time to pass then jump on" to make it more natural-looking.

tl;dr there is no framing effort against yzb, that's retarded. And Eggy's scumread of me is probably sincere

[yzb25]

Minized you're logged in as Unknown. Just saying.

[MiniZed]

Minized you're logged in as Unknown. Just saying.

That's annoying.

[BananaCucho]

I could vote second passing right now but I feel minized would follow me and I don't like that thought

Actually lets test that theory

-vote secondpassing

[MiniZed]

I could vote second passing right now but I feel minized would follow me and I don't like that thought

Actually lets test that theory

-vote secondpassing

Are you even reading? There is no way I'm voting Secondpassing I don't know where that comes from.

[MiniZed]

Real talk, @BananaCucho , (think that's how you spell it) I really don't think Eggy is part of an effort to frame me. Eggy doesn't even see the Mattzed death as a reason to scumread me. As far as I can see, the fact that I hammered yesterday is pretty much the main reason he scumreads me, along with some residual suspicion from that PL proposal. He also hasn't seen the reasoning I gave for why I townread NU, and apparently hasn't seen the reasoning everyone gave about why killing NU to confirm his alignment was probably more beneficial.

Remember, Eggy has like no sense of how he appears to other players for this game at least. He made EIGHT consecutive posts responding to that PL strategy I threw out there yesterday, just because he got tunnel vision on scumreading me. It wasn't even like that was his only thought - he had loads of town-perspective sounding thoughts if I remember correctly. Anyway, his lack of self-image awareness makes me slightly townread him tbh lol.

Plus, if there is a framing effort, why have you voted Eggy rather than DarknessB, who had finished springboarding off a Night-kill-analysis LESS THAN TEN MINUTES after d2 had started, and resurrected outdated arguments as part of his new push? Did DB look sincere as opposed to Eggy? Weird, because I read it the other way around (DB didn't seem sincere).

After reading through this d2 start again, I don't even think DB is part of a framing effort. It looks like he was going to launch this vote at the start of d2 regardless. It looks like Mattzed's death was a cherry on the cake. Honestly, there's a good chance DB just wanted to plant a vote on me right from daystart and test my reaction.

Anyway, last point about this. If there really is a framing effort (and if so, it's been done in a really strategically retarded way), I doubt Eggy AND Dankness are part of it, because it would be way too stupid for two scums to jump on this opportunistic train at such close times. Most likely they said something like "wait for some time to pass then jump on" to make it more natural-looking.

I'm very confused by this message. If you are town, and you don't think either person accusing you is being oppourtunistic or scummy, who do you scum-read?

[MiniZed]

I don't like the yzb25 or Secondpassing trains and I think that yzb makes a fair point about Titus attacking people accusing them and that they have avoided most of the main interactions.

-vote Titus

[BananaCucho]

I don't like the yzb25 or Secondpassing trains and I think that yzb makes a fair point about Titus attacking people accusing them and that they have avoided most of the main interactions.

-vote Titus

K scum.

[yzb25]

I'm very confused by this message. If you are town, and you don't think either person accusing you is being oppourtunistic or scummy, who do you scum-read?

I don't scumread Eggy. I don't know how to feel about Darkness.

[Titus]

I don't like the yzb25 or Secondpassing trains and I think that yzb makes a fair point about Titus attacking people accusing them and that they have avoided most of the main interactions.

-vote Titus

The people accusing me happen to be scum. The implicit argument that he who suspects first is town is a bad argument.

Also, just what are you thinking I avoided?

[Titus]

Are you even reading? There is no way I'm voting Secondpassing I don't know where that comes from.

Banana's reading is mine. Are you having SP as a townread?

[Eggy]

She also claimed that her Titus and Yzb were the scum team. I'm pretty sure it's jokes.

I dont think its jokes I think she fucked up and is now trolling to make it look like part of her play I dont think she is vigi she is definately scum

[Eggy]

Real talk, @BananaCucho , (think that's how you spell it) I really don't think Eggy is part of an effort to frame me. Eggy doesn't even see the Mattzed death as a reason to scumread me. As far as I can see, the fact that I hammered yesterday is pretty much the main reason he scumreads me, along with some residual suspicion from that PL proposal. He also hasn't seen the reasoning I gave for why I townread NU, and apparently hasn't seen the reasoning everyone gave about why killing NU to confirm his alignment was probably more beneficial.

Remember, Eggy has like no sense of how he appears to other players for this game at least. He made EIGHT consecutive posts responding to that PL strategy I threw out there yesterday, just because he got tunnel vision on scumreading me. It wasn't even like that was his only thought - he had loads of town-perspective sounding thoughts if I remember correctly. Anyway, his lack of self-image awareness makes me slightly townread him tbh lol.

Plus, if there is a framing effort, why have you voted Eggy rather than DarknessB, who had finished springboarding off a Night-kill-analysis LESS THAN TEN MINUTES after d2 had started, and resurrected outdated arguments as part of his new push? Did DB look sincere as opposed to Eggy? Weird, because I read it the other way around (DB didn't seem sincere).

After reading through this d2 start again, I don't even think DB is part of a framing effort. It looks like he was going to launch this vote at the start of d2 regardless. It looks like Mattzed's death was a cherry on the cake. Honestly, there's a good chance DB just wanted to plant a vote on me right from daystart and test my reaction.

Anyway, last point about this. If there really is a framing effort (and if so, it's been done in a really strategically retarded way), I doubt Eggy AND Dankness are part of it, because it would be way too stupid for two scums to jump on this opportunistic train at such close times. Most likely they said something like "wait for some time to pass then jump on" to make it more natural-looking.

Even if it was beneficial to town you said you would not lynch him under any circumstance and that you were town reading him everyone voting him was more or less scum reading him. In my experience a town would never hammer someone they thought was town just because it was the only possible lynch. The only time i've seen people make an identical play is when they are scum, I did it once. The only reason I ever dismissed the idea of you being scum is because people were saying you were a space case and after seeing what happened to SP last game I had my doubts you were just a town with strange play style. From what i've seen now your posts are a lot more thought out and I dont think you are really that much of a space case and are instead just scum. The only other person I am willing to vote is banana. After that I would probably lynch unknown I know there is atleast one scum between you 3.

[MiniZed]

I don't scumread Eggy. I don't know how to feel about Darkness.

That isn't what I asked you or what I was saying. I was asking you who you scum-read.

[MiniZed]

The people accusing me happen to be scum. The implicit argument that he who suspects first is town is a bad argument.

Also, just what are you thinking I avoided?

So you are saying that everyone accusing you is scum, I don't know how you reach this conclusion but it's weak.

The second part makes no sense to me.

You have not commented at all on how Darkness and yzb are interacting, as well as Banana and Mesk. It seems like you are avoiding discussion about everything other then yourself and your votes on the people who oppose you.

[MiniZed]

Banana's reading is mine. Are you having SP as a townread?

If this is coming from a town mindset, it really needs to stop. "Banana's reading is mine" that's cool, I'd love to hear it from her.

Yeah, I am and I made it pretty clear around EOD yesterday.

[MiniZed]

I dont think its jokes I think she fucked up and is now trolling to make it look like part of her play I dont think she is vigi she is definately scum

Why shouldn't I believe this is an attempt to get rid of the Vigilante? I don't see your thinking behind this to make me believe you.

[MiniZed]

Also, this is really annoying but

@Gingerape
@GameFreak

Are you two planning on showing up?

[Gingerape]

I've been feeling kinda weird lately.
I still feel like minized is scum due to just a gut feeling but his posts are generally townbased imo.

I wanna take bananas side.
I feel like its he's more town than eggy at this point.

[Titus]

So you are saying that everyone accusing you is scum, I don't know how you reach this conclusion but it's weak.

The second part makes no sense to me.

You have not commented at all on how Darkness and yzb are interacting, as well as Banana and Mesk. It seems like you are avoiding discussion about everything other then yourself and your votes on the people who oppose you.

No. That's not what I am saying. Scum are accusing me does not mean everyone accusing me is scum.

Darkness and ybz are getting into a bitch fight that needs to be ignored to die. You should know where I stand on banana v mesk.

You're implicitly saying that highlighting scum are coming after me is scummy. The truth isn't scummy at all.

[Titus]

If this is coming from a town mindset, it really needs to stop. "Banana's reading is mine" that's cool, I'd love to hear it from her.

Yeah, I am and I made it pretty clear around EOD yesterday.

You already should have. You need to sit down and read the thread. I was saying I agreed with banana.

[MiniZed]

I've been feeling kinda weird lately.
I still feel like minized is scum due to just a gut feeling but his posts are generally townbased imo.

I wanna take bananas side.
I feel like its he's more town than eggy at this point.

How are my posts town based to you?

What makes you feel Eggy is scummier than banana?

What do you think of Darkness vs yzb25's interaction. Do you think it's TvS, TvT or SvS?

[MiniZed]

No. That's not what I am saying. Scum are accusing me does not mean everyone accusing me is scum.

Darkness and ybz are getting into a bitch fight that needs to be ignored to die. You should know where I stand on banana v mesk.

You're implicitly saying that highlighting scum are coming after me is scummy. The truth isn't scummy at all.

Why do you think the scum are accusing you, and why you in particular? It feels like you are just casting doubt on everyone scum-reading you.

You've defended Banana but I don't see where you ever talk about Mesk. I still don't see any comparison with the interaction regardless.

Do you think nothing of the Darkness and yzb interaction, or do you think it's TvT? Hard to tell by how it's phrased.

I don't understand why you would think this though. I don't see any weak cases, and it doesn't make sense for you to just call it out with no explanation.

[MiniZed]

You already should have. You need to sit down and read the thread. I was saying I agreed with banana.

I don't understand this again. What should I already have done? What were you agreeing with Banana on?

[Titus]

Why do you think the scum are accusing you, and why you in particular? It feels like you are just casting doubt on everyone scum-reading you.

You've defended Banana but I don't see where you ever talk about Mesk. I still don't see any comparison with the interaction regardless.

Do you think nothing of the Darkness and yzb interaction, or do you think it's TvT? Hard to tell by how it's phrased.

I don't understand why you would think this though. I don't see any weak cases, and it doesn't make sense for you to just call it out with no explanation.

Did you see the last fm that finished? It was semi unbalanced but when town coalesced and identified each other, scum were fucked. I am very good at leading town once I get the information to do so because being good town is bringing out the best in people. Throwing heavy pressure my way early, especially baseless pressure is a good way to do that.

Scum want attention in certain places to control the narrative. If no one talks about scum, they don't get lynched. To this end, 50 weak cases based on lies and innuendo are much more effective than a strong case based in reason or logic if hoping to deceive. Then, doubtcasting reason (the counter tactic of truth) is the logic step. So when secondpassing said that you were hiding behind a veil of logic, it was what the fuck.

I talk about what I find useful or can promote/sort. Commenting to everything only dilutes the power when you do speak in a thread.

If you can't tell "bitch fight that needs to die" as a way of saying TvT, it's going to be a long day. I am not a robot. Use common sense please.

There is nothing behind secondpassing beyond shading. There's zero attempt to promote townreads, to inquire about thought, anything. It's just garbage.

[Titus]

VLA tomorrow, may check in. I have a house to prep for company tomorrow.

[secondpassing]

@SP Yeah you did say you didn't care for my emotion before.

I never said I didn't care for your emotion, I said that I was trying to ignore it this game. If you've been reading the thread, you would have noticed that I stopped ignoring emotion at near ~48 hours into day one in order to get better reads.

And how does that matter now? I said, point out where you show town emotion. Oh wait, let me just anticipate what you're going to quote yourself with:

IMAGE

Well, I don't mind occasionally being called dumb because I know I've said things like the thread can't understand English. If I can't take it, I shouldn't dish it. What's telling though is NU's word choice. He calls me dumb. He doesn't pressure me as scum for my pressures because he himself doesn't believe it. He's not upset at how scummy I am, but how "dumb" I am for suspecting him. That comes from a mindset of someone who believes me to be town, not someone who thinks I'm scum. Let's not get so PC where people stop being real because that makes our job harder as town.

This is perhaps your post where you "show town emotion", but it doesn't show "town emotion", because even if you do, you self-contradict your read. If you're not actually frustrated with your fellow teammate- but your actions say you just lynch him anyway... That's deceptive.

Whether or not you know or think Never Unlucky was town, you went against that thought and killed him. This is like THE dumbest play I have EVER SEEN a town do, or it is a manipulation of one's own feelings in order to deceive us. (No I don't think Titus is dumb, don't take it personally)

Logic doesn't obscure emotion. Being clinical is an emotional state. That's scumreading someone for bring too smart.

Being clinical is like having a lack of emotion, it gives the impression that you don't care. That's the impression I'm getting. If you don't comment on anything other than the people who push you, you're saving your aggression only towards those that scum read you. Self-serving? I can use this phrase again while describing you.

I tend to scum read more logically thinking players. (over people who feel more to think) You, however, do not fall into this category.

Now, you're trying to turn my scumread into a policy vote. Someone who engages in an act tone by scum 99/100 is not a policy lynch.

Policy vote? No.
I think you misspelled a word in white, and I cannot understand it.

I have very much put forth original thought and you're again trying to dismiss the mountain of evidence against you as shade or "logic hiding things".

Quotes please. Where is this original thought? Where is this mountain of evidence against me?
YOU are the one calling my arguments against you as shade- this is shade.

[secondpassing]

Do you feel him starting a new train on yzb as town as well? Is this all you think about him?

Are you implying that they did the early Kill, or that you don't think they did. Why would scum make a big deal about not voting and then do it anyways?

Why lurking scum in particular?

Hold on, this is some of the most broken logic being used. How does NU town-reading Titus impact her read in the slightest bit? If NU was scum he could just town-read Titus and what you're saying is that makes Titus scummy for still voting him?

I haven't even spoken prior to you asking the questions, so clearly I'm not avoiding them as you put it out to be. I don't understand your train of thought in the slightest bit.

You missed Mesk and Eggy.

No, DarknessB actually voiced a couple of my thoughts regarding yzb25; but I find his reasoning a little bit simplistic. Would scum hide in plain sight like that? Maybe- knowing the nature of this game (numerous lurkers/people who don't care as much), but I'm looking for scum that are trying to hide-- the piggybackers of a lynch.

For scum to hammer and make a spheal to do it seems like a play that would make sense later as the days go on. yzb25 has drawn attention to himself with the hammer, scum could have just waited out the no-lynch as an alternative play.

Lurk = scum. Not that Lurkers are actually scum, but that lurkers have a higher probability than setup average to be scum. (GameFreak's scum percentage > 33)

Titus basically said that she only pushed against NU because he pushed her. Titus made clear that she thought NU probably thought she was a fellow town, and did not unvote.
Her thought =/= actions. You should not play around with votes.

My read on you is constantly changing (mostly between town and null) according to the way you answer my questions and engage in the thread. I'm a little bit like MattZed in the sense that if a player makes a promise, I expect them to keep it. If you ask questions, I expect you to get some strong reads-- considering you've done quite a bit of them this game.
I was a little impatient I admit. Given that we are nearing day's end, I hope you understand why I expected a reply.

I missed Eggy and Mesk and have no compulsory feeling to post about them in tandem with the lynch yesterday.

[secondpassing]

No. That's not what I am saying. Scum are accusing me does not mean everyone accusing me is scum.

You're implicitly saying that highlighting scum are coming after me is scummy. The truth isn't scummy at all.

Given that Never Unlucky accused you and flipped town...
Your thought is that people are town, your action is to kill them.

Trash's mindset:
I'm scum and they are all town, I need to kill them.

Does this equate? Answer- Yes.
Conclusion- Titus is scum.


If you were really concerned about the Truth, you would be an ardent defender of it. So, once again, point out your "bleeding town emotion".

[secondpassing]

Scum want attention in certain places to control the narrative. If no one talks about scum, they don't get lynched. To this end, 50 weak cases based on lies and innuendo are much more effective than a strong case based in reason or logic if hoping to deceive. Then, doubtcasting reason (the counter tactic of truth) is the logic step. So when secondpassing said that you were hiding behind a veil of logic, it was what the fuck.

There is nothing behind secondpassing beyond shading. There's zero attempt to promote townreads, to inquire about thought, anything. It's just garbage.

First point, I didn't just "doubtcast". I CASTED DOUBT. I FELT doubt, and then I CASTED it. I was worried. From the way MiniZed was answering questions mechanically, I had reason to doubt.

Second point, I don't just have emotion when I play mafia, I use it. I don't simply wade through the game being caused to feel this way or that way-- I use it to convince others. Even if the words I type don't make sense logically, I've haven't yet had a person say they could not tell what I was feeling.

I AM TOWN, and you will know that I FEEL THIS WAY.
Now go die Titus.



Nothing behind secondpassing beyond shading? Get real.
I attempted to save Never Unlucky from the retarded reads that were going around him.
I didn't just inquire people about thought (notably MiniZed, Never Unlucky, Gingerape), I CREATED new thought. I opened the information flow by simply pressure voting you. If DarknessB is also town (he probably is) I do not understand why he does not scum read you. He personally said, "[it] made her look bad". Now let's turn it back towards you. Where have you inquire about thought?

It is not garbage, and this is shade, but you will fail to hide the light that I am. I am the privileged, I am the innocent. Now be purged.

[secondpassing]

I've been feeling kinda weird lately.
I still feel like minized is scum due to just a gut feeling but his posts are generally townbased imo.

I wanna take bananas side.
I feel like its he's more town than eggy at this point.

Weird how?
Agree, though I never felt as strongly as you did though. It may be the fact that I can't read much of his emotion apart from the small amount of frustration he had at Never Unlucky when he claimed NU threw shade on him. Posts are question heavy. Posts are also heavy with opinions, but not with heavy opinions.

I have a hard time placing Banana right now. I find it hard to tell when I suspect that if the player was town, they wouldn't give a crap.

[secondpassing]

I've been feeling kinda weird lately.
I still feel like minized is scum due to just a gut feeling but his posts are generally townbased imo.

I wanna take bananas side.
I feel like its he's more town than eggy at this point.

Also: other reads? Its day 2. I expect you to have reads.

[secondpassing]

SP is probably scum who isn't even reading at this point but just wanting to play safe with a static read.

I missed this earlier since it was coming from my scum read. I was like, eh, ignorable.
Calls me out for shade, makes baseless shade.

Where did you get the idea that I haven't read the thread?
Why are you giving Banana a pass for not reading?

[secondpassing]

tl;dr there is no framing effort against yzb, that's retarded. And Eggy's scumread of me is probably sincere

Where's your vote?
Who do you think it scum? Update plox.

[Titus]

Given that Never Unlucky accused you and flipped town...
Your thought is that people are town, your action is to kill them.

Trash's mindset:
I'm scum and they are all town, I need to kill them.

Does this equate? Answer- Yes.
Conclusion- Titus is scum.


If you were really concerned about the Truth, you would be an ardent defender of it. So, once again, point out your "bleeding town emotion".

Never Unlucky was town so therefore anyone who wanted to lynch him is scum. No. Never Unlucky was scummy and avoiding his wagon or even acknowledging that his play was Antitown is absurd. 99/100 times when someone votes a townread and discredits them over pushing scum, the slot is scum. Was Never unlucky town? Yes. Do I regret the vote? No. Nor should anyone else on that wagon.

You keep trying to associate me with bring trash which is far more offensive than Never Unlucky calling me dumb. Calling people trash is a hollow discrediting tactic that obscures from facts. You repeatedly use such tactics.
My bleeding town emotion was equivalent yesterday when everyone came to my defense when NU attacked me. This site has an ISO feature.

Second, dovetailing into your Followup post, you finally admit that you had no interest yesterday in reading my emotions at the time I reveal them to you. Yet, you expect me to believe that you're trying to reconsider your opinion when you ask now? When you don't even bother asking for my reads on substance at all?

Using emotion to manipulate is ok, if there's something to back it up with. Yet, there never is with you. That's why you don't want people to rip apart your posts logically. There's nothing there. Not once have you supported a read in this game.

You refuse to comment on major events, even when asked. When showed that even the minor points you make ("reactionary is scummy") are shown wrong, you act like they never exist rather than engaging.

You are nothing more than a two bit huckster trying to sell snake oil in a desperate plea to survive. Most scum can fake logic or emotion but not both. Your constant attempt to keep things away from substance and logic is indicative of someone who knows they cannot win by doing that do must pull at emotions.

It's time you give reads. I know you pretend I am scum, so do it twice. Once with me bring town. I can then ignore the one that says scum titus until you flip so I can see who you try to link me with.