S-FM Turnabout Mafia

[Marshmallow Marshall]

What has Distorted done that makes him towny? Wasn't he defending Damus quite a lot day 1 as well? I think it was him who started the whole Damus is innocent train.

Objection, Your Honor! I did start the "Damus is innocent" train, and pushed it hard. Distorted was talking about crepes.

However, you, Kenny, have been trying to mislead us into thinking Distorted and Magoroth had started it on the jury chat, you scumpainted everyone, but I don't exactly how remember how.... I call @Distorted and @Magoroth to testify. You were witnesses of the defendant's scum painting. What did it consist of?

[Ganelon]

Look, I said I will adjust my votes to take his opinion into consideration towards the end of the day. For now I however treat him as someone with less information than I do, because that's what he is.
For me his reads are not worth more than my own.

Do you not find it easier to read a game when outside of it?

[Slaol]

So Kenny is still the lynch for today and has done nothing but try to discredit me. Ez day here frankly

[Kenny]

Do you not find it easier to read a game when outside of it?

That's not the point. He doesn't know that I am town. I know that. He knows nothing that I don't know however, so I'm valuing my own reads higher than his for myself.
Everyone else should state his own reads like that as well. It is not towny to hide your own reads behind the mayor's reads and it does make his job harder.

[Mike]

So Kenny is still the lynch for today and has done nothing but try to discredit me. Ez day here frankly

Spoiler : cvote :

Kenny,Gyrlander,LightYagami,Magoroth,Voss,Marshmal lowMarshall,Distorted,Numbertwo,Mike,

[Kenny]

So Kenny is still the lynch for today and has done nothing but try to discredit me. Ez day here frankly

Magoroth started this discussion and I am the one stating facts here. This isn't discrediting.

[Mike]

That's not the point. He doesn't know that I am town. I know that. He knows nothing that I don't know however, so I'm valuing my own reads higher than his for myself.
Everyone else should state his own reads like that as well. It is not towny to hide your own reads behind the mayor's reads and it does make his job harder.

He does make a valid point on this.

[Slaol]

That's not the point. He doesn't know that I am town. I know that. He knows nothing that I don't know however, so I'm valuing my own reads higher than his for myself.
Everyone else should state his own reads like that as well. It is not towny to hide your own reads behind the mayor's reads and it does make his job harder.

I would like more detail from everyone yes

[Slaol]

Magoroth started this discussion and I am the one stating facts here. This isn't discrediting.

Disagree.

So you said who you think is scum, please find posts related to interaction to support that

[Kenny]

I would like more detail from everyone yes

What are Magoroth's reads? I know you townread him. Who does he scumread? Who is he pushing? Except for me, who he is pushing to defend himself.

[Ganelon]

He does make a valid point on this.

that's true for literally everyone in the game

[Ganelon]

What are Magoroth's reads? I know you townread him. Who does he scumread? Who is he pushing? Except for me, who he is pushing to defend himself.

my reads are MM is scum. I've been pushing him for half the game.

[Kenny]

my reads are MM is scum. I've been pushing him for half the game.

and that's it?

[Light_Yagami]

my reads are MM is scum. I've been pushing him for half the game.

My Read On MM & Distorted Mafia..

Gyr/Mike Bomber..

NumberTwo Basically Confirmed Exe..

[Kenny]

my reads are MM is scum. I've been pushing him for half the game.

MM has been a low-hanging neutral fruit all game. Pushing him is just easy town cred, which you seem to have been hording all time.

[Light_Yagami]

Also Number Two Did Point Out Some Contradictions In Distorteds Posts..

[Ganelon]

my reads are MM is scum. I've been pushing him for half the game.

I also suspect Gyrlander, but good luck getting him to talk.
no, MM is not low-hanging fruit. MM is extremely scummy.
how anyone can't see that is beyond me.
MM wanted a Frog/Voss Lynch, even though Frog wasn't acting scummy at all, he was just extremely biased to the point of being narcissistic.

[Light_Yagami]

Spoiler : cvote :

Distorted, MarshmallowMarshall, Mike, Gyrlander

[Mike]

that's true for literally everyone in the game

That is true also.

[Kenny]

I also suspect Gyrlander, but good luck getting him to talk.
no, MM is not low-hanging fruit. MM is extremely scummy.
how anyone can't see that is beyond me.
MM wanted a Frog/Voss Lynch, even though Frog wasn't acting scummy at all, he was just extremely biased to the point of being narcissistic.

Spoiler : cvote :

Frog,Numbertwo,Kenny,LightYagami,Gyrlander,Marshma llowMarshall,Mike,Voss,Distorted,Magoroth

This was your vote at the end of day 2. You apologized and stated you have no2, MM and gyrlander as alternative reads afterwards.

ANYWAY. Since Frog's unlikely to change in play style/behaviour this game and is instead content to be a prick, I'm pursuing my alternative scum reads of Numbertwo, Gyrlander, MM.

"Frog wasn't acting scummy at all" is a lie from you, unless you actually voted him fully believing he is 100% town.

[Light_Yagami]

You Know The Last Person That Asked Me To Specifically Make A Case On Someone Was Mafia... Hmmmm... @Magoroth Why Did You Ask Someone To Make A List Of All NumberTwos Posts?

[Ganelon]

This was your vote at the end of day 2. You apologized and stated you have no2, MM and gyrlander as alternative reads afterwards.

"Frog wasn't acting scummy at all" is a lie from you, unless you actually voted him fully believing he is 100% town.

no, you're fucking lying right now. go check the last post I made about Frog before he left. I noted that what he was doing wasn't scummy and was motivated by out-of-game reasons.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

That's not the point. He doesn't know that I am town. I know that. He knows nothing that I don't know however, so I'm valuing my own reads higher than his for myself.
Everyone else should state his own reads like that as well. It is not towny to hide your own reads behind the mayor's reads and it does make his job harder.

However that's the point I tried to make earlier. But it doesn't make the mayor third party

[Kenny]

no, you're fucking lying right now. go check the last post I made about Frog before he left. I noted that what he was doing wasn't scummy and was motivated by out-of-game reasons.

To those saying that Frog's behaviour may have potential scum motivation: reading solely what he has done this game, it's very clearly motivated by out-of-game reasons; he doesn't explain his reads in a way that can make others understand them, and he called the bloody mayor scum, which is absurd, and also faked "read him" as town. I'd expect a scum Frog to show some more flexibility in order to more easily manipulate people.

I do admit that Slaol does seem like the type of person who might be vulnerable to such manipulation, but it seems at best underhanded and at worst obvious as hell. I don't see it as scummy.

I know y'all are going to rail into me for "stopping a information Lynch" (?), but really, what has Frog brought to the game, besides syntax reads and a sense of coolness? You won't even know if his reads are true, and if you're going to sheep them just because you have a gut feeling he is town and badass you might as well lynch me right now.

This type of reads really rests more on "macro-meta" analysis over multiple games. Let me tell you this: there are a metric fuckton of confounding variables that come into play in meta reads like this one. Sure there probably is a correlation between "syntax" and alignment, but it's not like 100% correlated, hell, it's probably something closer to 50%.

It's honestly sad. I used to use similar kinds of reads as you, but those don't work 100% of the time. It's literally hit 100%, miss 100% or (most of the time) around 50/50.

This was a discredit, not a defense.

[Ganelon]

You Know The Last Person That Asked Me To Specifically Make A Case On Someone Was Mafia... Hmmmm... @Magoroth Why Did You Ask Someone To Make A List Of All NumberTwos Posts?

because no.2 claimed neutral and I wanted to see if there was any indication of him attempting to achieve his wincon, or. defending Voss, somehow, in game chat.

[Slaol]

Kenny, can i get a brief summary on why youve been so away and only here now when youre on the chopping block

[Light_Yagami]

because no.2 claimed neutral and I wanted to see if there was any indication of him attempting to achieve his wincon, or. defending Voss, somehow, in game chat.

Yeah He Never Defended Voss Not Once..

Also, All Evidence Does Point To Him Actually Being Executioner.. Thus That Would Make Voss Confirmed Town Based On That Logic.. We Need To Find The Guy That Can Force The Guilty.. And I Believe That Person To Be Distorted.. Because When He Was Gonna Defend Blink He Claimed He Was On Retainer.

[Ganelon]

This was a discredit, not a defense.

it's both - Frog fully deserved to get discredited. nobody will change my mind about that, ever.
however, as I explained, he was not scummy.
and I was going to unvote him. it's pretty clear from my 3rd paragraph that I was seriously considering it.
I was reticent about unvoting him because I was afraid people might find it scummy, since Slaol said that we should reconsider his reads after his flip.

[Kenny]

Kenny, can i get a brief summary on why youve been so away and only here now when youre on the chopping block

No, that's private. And I'm also not on the chopping block.

[Slaol]

No, that's private. And I'm also not on the chopping block.

I disagree heavily to the chopping block thing. Also "its thanksgiving" probably would have worked but youve chosen to be extra defensive for some reason, which i appreciate out of my top scum read

[Light_Yagami]

Spoiler : cvote :

Distorted, MarshmallowMarshall, Mike, Gyrlander

[Voss]

We have info on votes. On who is voting us, when we ourselves know that we are town or whatever you might be. Slaol does not have this info.

Lmao do you have extra info? I dont

[Kenny]

I also suspect Gyrlander, but good luck getting him to talk.
no, MM is not low-hanging fruit. MM is extremely scummy.
how anyone can't see that is beyond me.
MM wanted a Frog/Voss Lynch, even though Frog wasn't acting scummy at all, he was just extremely biased to the point of being narcissistic.

I wouldn't call Frog toxic, but I'm 100% in for a Frog lynch. Would also be in for a Voss lynch, but I know you're against it and I scumread Frog (Well actually Stealth lol) more than I scumread Voss.

Spoiler : cvote :

Frog,Voss,Kenny,Numbertwo,Gyrlander,Mike,LightYaga mi,Magoroth,Distorted,MarshmallowMarshall,

Frog,Voss,Kenny,Numbertwo,Gyrlander,Mike,LightYagami,Magoroth,Distorted,Mars hmallowMarshall

As of now (I'm at page 17, 50 posts/page, currently reading post #827), this is where my PoE stands. I have several instances of town tells that strenghten my thoughts on all my cleaned people, and several instances of scum tells that strenghten my thoughts on most of my scum people. In fact, Numbertwo and Kenny are the ones who are only there because of PoE. But all of the other reads just repeat themselves there and keep adding to eachother. I have like 10-20 posts that would be sufficient to have a strong town read on Magoroth if they were alone, for example lol. The entire world revolves around this, and I just realized it fits the number of town, scum and neutrals left into the game.

Frog and Voss are reds, Kenny and Numbertwo are the neutrals, all others are town. I believe I have solved this game as of now. If you check the entire thread and apply the knowledge you gained from the two flips, you come to this conclusion.

@Slaol @Distorted @Magoroth @Voss @Frog @Mike @Kenny @Numbertwo @Gyrlander @Light_Yagami

If you would like my complete notes as of now, here they are:

Magoroth = INNOCENT
Kenny - Voss = Town vs Scum or Neutral vs Scum
Mike = Probably innocent
Gyrlander - Voss = Not Scum vs Scum
Mike - Voss = Not Scum vs Scum, probably Town vs Scum or vs Neutral
Possible Damus - Stealth pairing?
Voss = Suspicious, could be neutral or red
Gyrlander - Voss = Not Scum vs Scum
Stealth = Suspicious, a lot of fluff and strange behavior towards Damus
Mike = Innocent
Distorted = Innocent
Gyrlander = Looks innocent?
Gyrlander = Innocent

Those notes are completed by all the posts I have made during the re-reading of Day 1. For example, why I cleaned Light.


I am waiting on your thoughts and reactions. And I'm kinda happy because I think this is solved

MM wanted a frog lynch because of his reads on stealth btw. He did put frog's play as scummy. I believe he was sheeping others and isn't the one who scumpainted frog that day.
I can't scumread MM for his interactions with frog at least. I still think MM is neutral.

[Kenny]

I disagree heavily to the chopping block thing. Also "its thanksgiving" probably would have worked but youve chosen to be extra defensive for some reason, which i appreciate out of my top scum read

What the fuck?

[Kenny]

MM wanted a frog lynch because of his reads on stealth btw. He did put frog's play as scummy. I believe he was sheeping others and isn't the one who scumpainted frog that day.
I can't scumread MM for his interactions with frog at least. I still think MM is neutral.

*did not put frog's play as scummy.

[Kenny]

Lmao do you have extra info? I dont

Is that a softclaim?

[Slaol]

What the fuck?

Your response was dismissive and confrontational. Thats all. Your followup was also short and not redeeming. Youre also my largest scum read so im okay with you just accepting your impending lynch

[Light_Yagami]

@Slaol Should I Be Building A File On Kenny Right Now?

[Slaol]

Im content with a Kenny lynch more than before his defense. If hes among your scum make sure he's #1

[Slaol]

@Slaol Should I Be Building A File On Kenny Right Now?

Ya thatd be good. His views, dismissal, and timing are all incredibly scummy

[Kenny]

lol ok

[Slaol]

lol ok

Prove me wrong. I asked for interaction which yoi havent provided. Im always open to have my mind changed.

[Gyrlander]

Nah, I'm siding with Kenny here just because he seems to be the only one that also wants Dist dead. If he was maf he would have gone with the "hey i'll join the OMFG DIST IS CONFIRMED TOWN" shit. Fuck off.

Spoiler : cvote :

Distorted,LightYagami,Mike,Numbertwo,MarshmallowMa rshall,Voss,Magoroth,Kenny,Gyrlander,

[Gyrlander]

I also suspect Gyrlander, but good luck getting him to talk.
no, MM is not low-hanging fruit. MM is extremely scummy.
how anyone can't see that is beyond me.
MM wanted a Frog/Voss Lynch, even though Frog wasn't acting scummy at all, he was just extremely biased to the point of being narcissistic.

Excuse me? I'm here to talk and I told you to ask whatever you want. If you completely ignore my posts you can kindly -go have a nice tea somewhere else-

[Slaol]

I also have been reading Gyr as scummier as the game goes on and im happy with Dist as town.

I appreciate you guys labeling yourselves

[Marshmallow Marshall]

MM wanted a frog lynch because of his reads on stealth btw. He did put frog's play as scummy. I believe he was sheeping others and isn't the one who scumpainted frog that day.
I can't scumread MM for his interactions with frog at least. I still think MM is neutral.

I didn't sheep others, I literally ignored the chat for a while to go back to D1. I had decided it myself. And yes, I realize this doesn't help me not to look scummy but it's the truth.

Also, where the fuck is that neutral thing coming from? Let's take my defense of Damus: it could only be motivated by three things: me as town thinking he's town too about to get mislynched, which happened; me as scum trying to defend a scummate, which I guess is understandable to believe; me as insane defense attorney trying to get him inno'd, which is impossible since he was guilty defendant. It would make no sense to involve myself so hard into a defense that doesn't go towards my wincon. And the same goes for if I were bomber. Find something better than this, either say I'm town or scumpaint me fully, but this doesn't make sense

[Gyrlander]

I also have been reading Gyr as scummier as the game goes on and im happy with Dist as town.

I appreciate you guys labeling yourselves

If you weren't confirmed Town I wouldn't give 2 shits about your opinion. Specially when it's that wrong.

[Light_Yagami]

Ya thatd be good. His views, dismissal, and timing are all incredibly scummy

Very Well This Is Gonna Take Some Time..

[Distorted]

still catching up, but I agree with keeping number 2 around for a failsafe for town. Ill be responding to a few posts at a time as i go.

Spoiler : cvote :

Gyrlander,LightYagami,Kenny,Magoroth,Voss,Marshmal lowMarshall,Distorted,Numbertwo,Mike,

I put first three to rep Judge. the next 4 I suspect equally. I put Number 2 on bottom because I dont want to waist our free get out of jail card. I still think we would get more info out of Mag or MM. but it is what it is. Sloal been playing longer than me and I may have missed something. Sloal you wanted to lead us so it is all on you.

this is what throws me off....last 2 days you keep pushing for a me or MM lynch because u think we are both scum. then you put us as your top town list. It feels like you are setting up for later after 2-3 mislynches to say "I knew it was them!". its a very passive way to prevent lock-town reads from happening and keeping discredit but without actually pushing.

Mike, you need to work on your writing... you make some abbreviations and mistakes that make your posts just... not very attractive to the eye <3

Gyrlander. this is why I find you scummy. Mike has now voted you and your response is to criticize. this is what you did in the scum game with aivion.

[Gyrlander]

I'm not 100% sure about this but I get the feeling this is the frustrated Kenny we saw in Illuminati, and since he's going against the current right now I'm siding with him.