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    M-FM Rick and Morty

    M-FM Rick and Morty



    This is a game of Mini Forum Mafia. This is a fun and balanced setup. For a clearer idea on how to expect to approach this setup, click on the spoiler.
    Spoiler : Strategy :
    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman View Post
    Article #2: Seers/Cops and Keeping Good Cover
    - written by Yates

    “A secret's worth depends on the people from whom it must be kept.”
    ― Carlos Ruiz Zafón, “The Shadow of the Wind”


    This is a guide on understanding the basic principles of being a seer, providing seer cover, and the information generated by the scum team’s seer hunt.

    What is a seer?
    A seer [also known as a cop] is a basic Town power role with the ability to investigate one person per night in order to determine their alignment. The game mod then sends these investigation results to the seer/cop at the beginning of each new day. These investigation results are called "peeks."

    In basic games, there are three things that are always going to happen:

    1. A seer has to "drop peeks." This means that they have to find a way to post their results in the thread for the Town to see.
    2. The Town needs to provide "seer cover" [also known as "hypo cop'ing"]. This means that the rest of the Town should be providing fake peeks in order to confuse the scum team and hide the real seer results until it is safe for the real seer to claim or the real seer is killed.
    3. The scum has to "seer hunt." In basic games, the scum team does not have a lot of time to find the seer. In a typical standard game if the scum team doesn't find the seer by day 3 and the seer has 3 live peeks or 2 live peeks and a scum peek the game is mechanically locked and the Town always wins.

    Seer Hunt Clear
    Let's talk about "seer hunt clear" [SHC]:
    Seer hunt clear is when a person is "cleared" as Town because the scum team killed the person with a fake peek on them.

    Example:
    Yates fakes a Town peek on Thingy.
    That night Yates is killed by the scum team.
    Thingy is considered seer hunt cleared.

    Why? Look at point 3 above. The scum team has a limited amount of time to find the seer. They are very unlikely to kill someone who has a fake peek on scum. The reason they are very unlikely to kill someone with a fake peek on scum is because the "peek" is inaccurate which means that person can't be the real seer.

    To continue the example:
    Yates fakes a Town peek on Thingy.
    Thingy is actually scum.
    Thingy and his scum team now know that Yates is NOT the seer and will usually night kill someone else in an effort to find the real seer.

    How to provide cover
    The trick with providing cover is in figuring out accurate fake peeks and maintaining those peeks as the day progresses. As you saw above, once you fake a peek on scum the scum team knows you are not the real seer and that limits the pool of potential people who can be the real seer. This being the case, it is almost always advisable to fake your "peek" on someone you are Town reading. In order to do this, it makes the most sense for everyone to hold off on dropping their fake peeks [and for the seer to hold off on dropping their real peek] until there is enough information in the thread to give everyone actual reads. It is always easier to maintain a fake peek on someone you are Town reading anyway.

    Some people think it's a good idea to drop their peek in their first post. While this might seem like a good idea, since statistically you are more likely to randomly choose a villager, you make it harder for the real seer to pretend their read could also be fake. This method also relies 100% on luck. While luck is certainly involved to a certain extent, we also like to think of this as a game of skill. So why not use your skills by waiting longer in order to improve your luck?

    Make your peeks clear. Some people like to hide their fake peeks. This is a bad idea. If you get killed at night, you want your peeks to be OBVIOUS to the rest of the Town. This is especially true in Turbo games where every second counts. The less time the village has to spend figuring out your peeks, the easier it will be to soft clear Townies. Also, you will want your real seer to make their peeks obvious so you want to try to emulate that clarity. Using phrases like “if I’m the seer I peeked playerX Town n0” or simply “I peeked player Town last night” leave no doubt.

    Once you have committed to a fake peek, you have to stick with that peek. If I call Thingy my n0 peek and I suddenly start suspecting him [even though the scum team knows he is Town], it becomes pretty clear to the scum team that I am not the real seer because I "dropped cover." So if I call Thingy my n0 peek, he has to always be the "Towniest" person in all future reads lists.

    The hardest time to maintain cover is when someone claims to be the real seer. Do yourself and everyone else a favor and evaluate the authenticity of that claim before you just drop your cover [by unvoting or high fiving or something like that]. Scum will often fake claim seer when caught to see how people react so their team mates might be able to find the real seer.

    How to drop peeks as the seer
    Hopefully, everyone in the Town is savvy enough to know how to properly fake peek. [If they don’t? Refer them to this article post game!] One of the best ways to do this is to “disguise” your peek as a read. As you read above, the players who are better at providing seer cover drop their peeks based on reads. If they are doing this, it will make things a lot easier on you. If not, then it doesn’t matter too much because the scum will see your peeks and hopefully assume that your peek is “too easy” of a target because it is clearly based off of a read.

    The trick to providing the Town with your peeks is to make them indistinguishable from fake peeks but also clear. If you are the seer you want there to be no doubts about who your peeks are. This is especially true in Turbo games where every second counts. Using phrases like “if I’m the seer I peeked playerX Town n0” or simply “I peeked player Town last night” leave no doubt. If you bury your peeks in long reads lists or rambling posts, there’s always a danger they will not be seen.

    The biggest challenge you will face is when someone fake claims being the real seer. A good Town will evaluate all claims and will not immediately drop seer cover. If they do? You may be forced to unvote or vote for someone in order to appear to be a regular Townie. Even if you change your vote back, the hope is that your flinch will make the scum team think you are not the real seer because the real seer will know not to flinch. Ideally, you will have a Town hero who does NOT flinch at all and will eat the bullet for you at night. Knowing when to counter claim is an art and a whole topic of its own that I will leave up to you.

    Cliffs:

    • EVERYONE should provide seer cover.
    • Peeks should be clear.
    • Seer cover based on reads is usually more accurate than random luck.
    • Don’t drop cover.
    • Seer hunt clear is a real thing.



    Semi-Open Setup - 21 Players

    Mafia
    Mafia
    Mafia
    Mafia
    Mafia
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Town
    Neutral Killing


    Mechanics

    • Majority is in effect. Day will end the instant a majority is reached. No posting after majority is reached.
    • Town wins when all threats to Town have been eliminated.
    • Plurality voting is in effect; whoever receives the most votes by the end of the day will be lynched.
    • No Lynching is enabled. Vote for No Lynch to forgo a lynch that Day.
    • Mafia kills are assigned, not factional. They can be tracked, watched, or roleblocked.
    • Cops get n0 peeks.
    • Mafia may only communicate during Night starting n0.
    • If the lynch vote ends in a tie, then a player will be lynched at random from among the tied players.
    • Last wills are not allowed



    Rules

    These are new rules, you should read them
    Quote Originally Posted by Visor View Post
    Instructions to fit in, have everybody like you, and always be happy:
    • Only post/talk about the game in this thread. Don't PM other players, unless your role PM allows this. Also, don't post anything about the game in other threads or on other forums.
    • Don't try to use the form of your role PM. So a screenshot of your role PM would be cheating.
    • When the thread is open and the Mafia Host has announced the start of the day phase you can post in it. But only as long as you are a live player. No deadposting, please.
    • Breadcrumbing is allowed. Secret codes requiring keys or anything resembling that is NOT allowed.
    • This is a game of lying. Players are expected to lie. No statement or promise a player makes within the game has any force outside the game. As an example, a bet offered in a game is not something you can collect if you win.
    • If we believe you to bending the rules intentionally in a way that clearly goes against the spirit of the rules and the game, then that would also be grounds for modkill. Do not try to get fancy or angly with the rules, please. An example would include trying to blame the ModBot for a supposed error in order to make a claim of yours more believable.
    • If you have any questions about rules, send a PM to this account. I'd be happy to help. You should not be asking the Game Host questions in the thread and neither should you ever refer to private communications with the mod.
    • If you should ever require a sub, PM the mod and stop posting in the thread.
    • No *****'ing / multi-accounting is allowed. Do not share your account with anyone else.
    • Treat your fellow players with respect. Hostility will not be tolerated.


    I will repeat this particular rule once more in big letters to make sure you understand:

    DO NOT EVER REFERENCE THIS GAME OUTSIDE OF THIS GAME THREAD. I.E. YOU SHOULD NOT BE TALKING ABOUT THIS GAME WHATSOEVER ON YOUR HOME SITE. IF PEOPLE ASK YOU QUESTIONS, TELL THEM YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT THE GAME AND LINK THEM TO THIS THREAD.

    We expect participation, and if you do not seem to be participating, for example, if you post less than 10 times per day phase, it is possible that we will consider subbing you out of the game. If you don't post at all, a sub will be found ASAP, at our discretion.

    Please do not put me in a tough situation. It has happened several times in the past seasons that people have made comments about the game that could potentially indicate their alignment. Even saying "the game is a lot of fun" or "man, I hate this" is way, way, way, way inappropriate!

    PLEASE DO NOT DISCUSS ANYTHING RELATING TO SUBS. Whether that be why someone subbed out or who might sub in, don't discuss it at all. If you are choosing to sub out, do not post about it in the thread. The only discussion of substitution should happen between the relevant player and the hosts, never in the thread.


    Phase Lengths

    Days are 48 hours in length. Nights are 24 hours in length. Day and Night lengths may be altered pre-game if requested, including extended weekend times.


    Roles

    Town Roles:

    Vanilla Town

    You are Vanilla Town. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

    Town Alignment Cop

    You are Town Alignment Cop. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

    As Town Alignment Cop, you have access to the Alignment Inspection Night Action. Alignment Inspection will reveal a target's alignment (Town/Mafia/Neutral Killing). Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    If you do not submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the un-Inspected living players.
    You receive a randomized Night 0 check amongst Town players upon receiving your rolecard.

    Inspection Results for Night 0.

    Player A is Town

    Doctor

    You are Doctor. You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.

    As Doctor, you have access to the Heal Night Action. Heal will grant a target protection from one attack. You will be informed if your target was attacked, but your target will not be informed if they were attacked unless Bulletproof. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    Roleblocker

    You are Roleblocker. You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.

    As Roleblocker, you have access to the Roleblock Night Action. Roleblock will stop all of your target's night actions. Your target will not be informed of being roleblocked, except in the case of a Roleblock Immune Neutral Killing. You will not be informed of whether the roleblock was successful. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    Vigilante

    You are Vigilante. You win when all threats to town have been eliminated.

    As Vigilante, you have access to the Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless healed or night immune. If your target is healed, your target will not be informed they were attacked or healed. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    Mafia Roles:

    Mafia Goon

    You are Mafia Goon. You win when Town cannot regain majority and Neutral Killing is lynched. Your teammates are:

    Mafia Team

    Player A (Mafia Role)
    Player B (Mafia Role)

    Mafia Chat: Pre-game and Night Only

    As Mafia, you have access to the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. A member of the Mafia must be assigned to perform the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless healed or night immune. Assigned Night Kill can be roleblocked. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    If no Mafia submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the living non-Mafia players.

    Roleblocker

    You are Roleblocker. You win when Town cannot regain majority and Neutral Killing is lynched. Your teammates are:

    Mafia Team

    Player A (Mafia Role)
    Player B (Mafia Role)

    Mafia Chat: Pre-game and Night Only

    As Mafia, you have access to the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. A member of the Mafia must be assigned to perform the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless healed or night immune. Assigned Night Kill can be roleblocked. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    If no Mafia submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the living non-Mafia players.

    As Roleblocker, you have access to the Roleblock Night Action. Roleblock will stop all of your target's night actions. Your target will not be informed of being roleblocked, except in the case of a Roleblock Immune Neutral Killing. You will not be informed of whether the roleblock was successful. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    Godfather

    You are Godfather. You win when Town cannot regain majority and Neutral Killing is lynched. Your teammates are:

    Mafia Team

    Player A (Mafia Role)
    Player B (Mafia Role)

    Mafia Chat: Pre-game and Night Only

    As Godfather, you have access to the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. A member of the Mafia must be assigned to perform the Assigned Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless healed or night immune. Assigned Night Kill can be roleblocked. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used. You have the ability to supersede your teammate's Asigned Night Kill choice by sending the host your night action with the phrase "I am the Godfather".

    If no Mafia submit an action, a player will be picked at random from the living non-Mafia players.

    As Godfather, you may choose 1 of 2 Modifiers on Night Zero.
    • The Ninja modifier, if chosen, will grant you night investigation immunity for the game.
    • The Bulletproof modifier, if chosen, will grant you invulnerability to night kills for the game. Additionally, you will be informed if targeted by Night Kill.

    Neutral Killing Roles:

    Serial Killer

    You are Serial Killer. You win when Town and Mafia cannot regain majority.

    As Serial Killer, you have access to the Night Kill Night Action. Players targeted with this action will die at the end of the Night unless healed or night immune. Night Kill can be roleblocked unless Serial Killer chooses Roleblock Invulnerability Modifier. Serial Killer is Bulletproof, and therefore invulnerable to night kills for the game and informed if targeted for Night Kill. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    As Serial Killer, you may choose 1 of 2 Modifiers on Night Zero.
    • The Ninja modifier, if chosen, will grant you night investigation immunity for the game.
    • The Roleblock Invulnerability modifier, if chosen, will grant you invulnerability to roleblocks for the game. Serial Killer will be informed if targeted for Roleblock.

    Arsonist

    You are Arsonist. You win when Town and Mafia cannot regain majority.

    As Arsonist, you have access to the Douse and Ignite Night Actions. Arsonist may either Douse or Ignite once a night. When Ignite action is used, all players previously targeted by Douse will die at the end of the Night. Ignite bypasses heals and bulletproof. Douse and Ignite can be roleblocked unless Arsonist chooses Roleblock Invulnerability Modifier. Arsonist is Bulletproof, and therefore invulnerable to night kills for the game and informed if targeted for Night Kill. Submit your Night Action each night using a PM to the host with the title: Night Action (#). You may change your target as many times as you want. The last action submitted will be used.

    As Arsonist, you may choose 1 of 2 Modifiers on Night Zero.
    • The Ninja modifier, if chosen, will grant you night investigation immunity for the game.
    • The Roleblock Invulnerability modifier, if chosen, will grant you invulnerability to roleblocks for the game. Arsonist will be informed if targeted for Roleblock.


    Order of Operations

    1. Roleblocker Roleblocks
    2. Killing Action
    3. Doctor Heals
    4. Cop Inspects Alignment



    FAQ


    1. What happens if?:
      Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B
      Roleblocker B blocks Killing A
      Killing A kills Roleblocker B


      Answer:
      Roleblocker B is blocked.
      Killing A is not blocked.
      Roleblocker B is killed.


    2. What happens if?:
      Roleblocker A blocks Roleblocker B
      Roleblocker B blocks Roleblocker C
      Roleblocker C blocks Killing A
      Killing A kills Roleblocker C


      Answer:
      Roleblocking B is blocked.
      Roleblocker C is not blocked.
      Killing A is blocked.
      Roleblocker C is not killed.


    3. What happens if?:
      Killing A kills Killing B
      Killing B kills Killing A


      Answer:
      Killing A is killed.
      Killing B is killed.


    4. What happens if?:
      Arsonist ignites
      Roleblocker blocks Arsonist


      Answer:
      All targets remain doused
      No targets are killed


    5. What happens if?
      Doctor A heals Vanilla Town A
      Killing A kills Doctor A
      Killing B kills Vanilla Town A


      Answer:
      Doctor A is killed.
      Vanilla Town A isn't healed.
      Vanilla Town A is killed.


    6. Can a Mafia Roleblocker perform the Assigned Kill and Block in the same night?

      Answer:
      No.


    7. Which roles [are compulsive] always perform their night action, even if they don't submit night actions?

      Answer:
      The following night actions, if not submitted, will be randomized:
      Alignment Cop Alignment Investigation
      Mafia Assigned Night Kill


    8. Will chosen modifiers be shown on flip?

      Answer:
      Yes


    9. Are there death descriptions or death notes?

      No. All death descriptions and death notes are written by the host, purely for flavor, and entirely unrelated to the killers.



    Spoiler : Notes where I'm getting my shit together - feel free to comment. :

    *I'll finish this later. Get hyped. wubalubadubdub



    *Not sure if I want to strictly enforce anonymity across accounts - seems unimportant to the game - leaning towards whoever wants to reveal themselves may do so.

    *I need to add flavor for all roles, including name and a picture

    *I need to create a list of 21 anon account names with pre-set pictures (you're free to change the avatar picture) matching Rick and Morty flavor. I'll do this if this set-up is chosen.

    *Undecided about Doctor mechanics.
    Should doctor be informed of all, some, or no successful heals?
    Should All, Some, or No players be informed of having been successfully healed?
    After giving it thought - targets should not be informed of being healed.
    The Doctor should be informed if their target was attacked. This means even if their target is Bulletproof Doctor will be informed if they were attacked.

    *Next thought about Doctor is how heals work. Should they heal +1 attack, or all attacks? I'm leaning towards +1.
    After consideration, Doctors can only heal 1 attack at a time for a +1.

    *Ive given consideration to Roleblocker and decided neither Roleblocker nor Target are informed of being roleblocked or success. The only exception will be Neutral Killer if they choose to be Roleblock immune instead of detection immune - where the Neutral Killer will be informed if someone attempted to Roleblock them. I feel like that makes the detection immune vs. Roleblock immune choice about equal for the neutral killer.

    Change Log:
    - altered the win condition for Mafia under Mafia Goon role card
    - added N0 modifier selection for Godfather, Serial Killer, and Arsonist.
    - started fleshing out the other roles
    - role information complete
    - win cons complete included in role cards
    - Changed from closed setup to Semi-Open
    -OoO is up
    -changed arsonist to where ignite bypasses heals and bulletproof.
    -added FAQ
    Last edited by Frog; September 5th, 2016 at 06:40 AM.

  2. ISO #2

  3. ISO #3

  4. ISO #4

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    @Frog , looking good so far. You should send me a few-sentence description for the M-FM poll. ;)
    How about this?

    This balance-proven semi-open variant features classic roles, 1 Neutral Killer, 5 Mafia, and 15 Town. Purposeful day chat is emphasized by disallowing last wills. The Alignment Cop role featuring a randomized night zero true town peek, and the Godfather, and Neutral Killing roles featuring a night zero modifier choice allows for meaningful discussion to begin day 1. Rick and Morty themed flavor all squanching game.

  5. ISO #5

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    ***If we can't get enough players for 21, we could just use this 17er:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thingyman View Post
    PROPOSED SEASON 3 FORMAT: MATRIX12

    The current proposed format for Season 3 is heavily inspired by the popular Matrix6 setup, which was designed by Cogito Ergo Sum and is used as a standard newbie setup on mafiascum.

    The concept behind Matrix6 is that there are 6 possible setups illustrated via a matrix where several of the roles and setups overlap with each other. The host rands which one is used, and the players will not know which setup is in play; They must piece this together from knowing just their own role and from watching the reveals as people die.

    Matrix12 works the same way, except with 12 possible setups. In addition, the size of the game is increased from 9 players to 17 players.

    A B C D E F
    1 Town Jailkeeper Vanilla Townie Mafia Role Cop Vanilla Townie 1-Shot Mafia Strongman Town Odd Night Cop
    2 Mafia Roleblocker Town Alignment Cop Town Doctor Mafia Ninja Vanilla Townie Vanilla Townie
    3 1-Shot Bulletproof Townie 1-Shot Mafia Strongman Town Tracker Town Masons (2) Vanilla Townie 1-Shot Mafia Strongman
    4 1-Shot Mafia Strongman 1-Shot Mafia Bulletproof Town Vigilante Town Bodyguard 2-Shot Town Jailkeeper Vanilla Townie
    5 Vanilla Townie Vanilla Townie Mafia Jailkeeper 1-Shot Mafia Strongman Town Alignment Cop w/ n0 town check Town Jailkeeper
    6 Town Vigilante Town Innocent Child Vanilla Townie Town Tracker 2-Shot Mafia Roleblocker Mafia Watcher

    The host randomizes a letter or a number, deciding which setup is used. I.e. if the host rands C, then the setup will consist of the roles in the C column. The host then adds 2 Mafia Goons to the setup and fills up the rest with Vanilla Townies.

    I.e. setup C would give you this:
    [SPOILER]1x Town Doctor
    1x Town Tracker
    1x Town Vigilante
    10x Vanilla Townie

    1x Mafia Role Cop
    1x Mafia Jailkeeper
    2x Mafia Goon
    [/SPOILER]

    [box=More information]General notes:
    • The mafia's factional kill must be assigned to a single member of their team each night. This means that the mafia's factional kill can be blocked by a Town Jailkeeper or tracked by a Town Tracker.
    • For those wondering, some of the roles in the matrix (Mafia Ninja and 1-Shot Mafia Bulletproof) will indeed only have value for either the row or the column setup in which it is used and not the other. This is not a mistake, it is done on purpose to only boost the mafia side in one of the two setups.
    • Full Role PM's will be posted later, clearly describing each role. But for now, refer to our Role Database if you are unfamiliar with any of these roles.

    Notable restrictions/clarifications:
    • The Mafia Ninja may not perform the factional kill on consecutive nights.
    • The Bulletproof roles are passively protected from the first shot fired at them during night. They will not be informed if they lose their vest.
    • None of the included roles can self-target, including the protective roles.
    • Doctors, Jailkeepers and Roleblockers are not allowed to target the same players on consecutive nights.
    • The Innocent Child may choose himself when he wishes to be publicly confirmed in the thread as town.
    • The Even Night Vigilante may only shoot on even nights (i.e. Night 2, Night 4, etc.).
    • The Town Cop gets an automated check on Night 0, i.e. when the game begins he will already know the alignment of one town player (this player can be a power role or a Vanilla Townie, the Cop will not know). The reason that the Town Cop can't potentially check a mafia-aligned player on Night 0 is to prevent an unfortunate situation of a representative being outed as mafia before they've had a chance to showcase their skills.
    [/box]

    The matrix consists of several well-known formats, though most of them are indeed untested. However, I have consulted with about 5-6 experienced game hosts now (including some of my fellow moderators) and after a lot of discussion, we overall feel fine about this proposal. Some setups are more prone to variance than others, but we feel that each side in all of the setups have a fair shot at winning. One issue that makes balancing tough for a Mafia Championship is that people are used to very different standards and metas, and what is balanced on one site may not be balanced on another site because of how the game is played there.

    If there are strong objections or well-reasoned criticism, we are very willing to hear you out and consider making changes to the matrix. If you wish to propose changes, we hope that you will limit yourself to common and standard roles, given that we hope to automate these games, which will be difficult if it features too unique or complex roles.

  6. ISO #6

  7. ISO #7

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    I think number wise this needs less scum.
    Worst case scenario for town means this will end within like possibly 3 days after just a few bad mislynches and night actions.
    Again, it's been tested over many games.

    ~20-30% factional scum is standard

    Here it's <24% factional scum

    It's just an expansion of C9++ made into a semi-open to give the playerbase here a head start.

  8. ISO #8

  9. ISO #9

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    Again, it's been tested over many games.

    ~20-30% factional scum is standard

    Here it's <24% factional scum

    It's just an expansion of C9++ made into a semi-open to give the playerbase here a head start.
    This isn't the same as C9++ as far as I know.
    It has more players, which changes things.

    I need to look at the other examples your talking about.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  10. ISO #10

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Okay first off all if this is based on Matrix12, it has quite a few deviations.
    One of the primary things is scum numbers.

    Matrix12 has 17 players and 4 total scum no matter the setup.
    This is 21 players and 6 total scum.

    Like just take basics into this:
    Matrix12 worst case scenario (ignoring all possible blocks/extra kills)
    Day 1 Mislynch (16 Players left)
    Day 2 Mislynch (14 players left)
    Day 3 Mislynch (12 Players left)
    Day 4 Mislynch (10 Players left)
    Day 5 Mislynch (8 Players left) <---Game ends here

    Thats total of 5 mislynches.

    Compare to this: [This assumes zero cross killing, no stopped kills]
    Day 1 Mislynch (20 Players left)
    Day 2 Mislynch (17 Players Left)
    Day 3 Mislynch (13 Players Left)
    Day 4 Mislynch (11 Players Left) <---Game ends after night resolves here.

    This again assumes zero extra town kills, all kills succeed, and no cross kills.

    The game has one fewer mislynches available to the town.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  11. ISO #11

  12. ISO #12

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    I think if you just take out one of the scum team members and make it a 20 player game it works fine.
    Can't do it. It's based on C9++ but expanded. It'd become far too townsided.

    Because it's expanded:
    - 3P gets an additional buff.
    - Town gets a few minor buffs as well.
    - Cop gets a night zero peek.
    - Doctor is informed whether targets were attacked.

    For reference on balance, this is C9++ setup outcomes:
    Scum Roles
    TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
    TTTTTT = Goon + Godfather
    TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
    TTTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker
    TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
    TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather
    T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
    0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather

    Serial Killer chooses its ability pregame

    For reference to T values:
    Cop Roles
    C = 1-Shot Cop
    CC = Cop
    CCC = Cop, 1-Shot Cop
    CCCC = 2 Cops
    CCCCC = 2 Cops, 1-Shot Cop
    CCCCCC = 3 Cops
    Cops are guaranteed to be sane.
    Doctor Roles
    D = Doctor
    DD = Doctor + 1-Shot Doctor
    DDD = 2 Doctors
    DDDD = 2 Doctors + 1-Shot Doctor
    DDDDD = 3 Doctors
    Vigilante Roles
    V = 1-Shot Vigilante
    VV = Vigilante
    VVV = Vigilante, 1-Shot Vigilante
    VVVV = 2 Vigilantes
    VVVVV = 2 Vigilantes, 1-Shot Vigilante
    Mason Roles
    M = Innocent Child (Confirmed at start of Day 1 by mod)
    MM = 2 Masons
    MMM = 2 Masons + Innocent Child
    MMMM = 3 Masons
    MMMMM = 2 Masons + 2 Masons (i.e. two separate pairings)
    Blocker Roles
    B = Roleblocker
    BB = Roleblocker + 1-Shot Roleblocker
    BBB = 2 Roleblockers
    BBBB = 2 Roleblockers + 1-Shot Roleblocker



    Tldr - it's balanced

  13. ISO #13

  14. ISO #14

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    I predict a scum win in this game then.
    Like, hardcore.
    You didn't win in pirates. Not even close:
    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/...-the-Caribbean

    Why didn't you win hardcore there?

    You had a team of 5, and there was a neutral killer. 21 players.

    Fire, no disrespect, but I don't think you can gauge balance if these are your points.

    *edit* yeah you had Titus, Lissa, Apoc, Zack, and yourself. Your team had a stacked scum team in terms of player ability.
    Last edited by Frog; September 18th, 2016 at 09:08 PM.

  15. ISO #15

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    You didn't win in pirates. Not even close:
    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/...-the-Caribbean

    Why didn't you win hardcore there?

    You had a team of 5, and there was a neutral killer.

    Fire, no disrespect, but I don't think you can gauge balance if these are your points.
    Ummm that game wasn't balanced to begin with.
    Like just because a unbalanced game could turn out too somehow still work to in towns favor just means the swing turned on scum.
    I wouldn't bring that in here as example of anything but bad play and luck.


    And your post was very disrespectful.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  16. ISO #16

  17. ISO #17

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    Okay first off all if this is based on Matrix12, it has quite a few deviations.
    One of the primary things is scum numbers.

    Matrix12 has 17 players and 4 total scum no matter the setup.
    This is 21 players and 6 total scum.

    Like just take basics into this:
    Matrix12 worst case scenario (ignoring all possible blocks/extra kills)
    Day 1 Mislynch (16 Players left)
    Day 2 Mislynch (14 players left)
    Day 3 Mislynch (12 Players left)
    Day 4 Mislynch (10 Players left)
    Day 5 Mislynch (8 Players left) <---Game ends here

    Thats total of 5 mislynches.

    Compare to this: [This assumes zero cross killing, no stopped kills]
    Day 1 Mislynch (20 Players left)
    Day 2 Mislynch (17 Players Left)
    Day 3 Mislynch (13 Players Left)
    Day 4 Mislynch (11 Players Left) <---Game ends after night resolves here.

    This again assumes zero extra town kills, all kills succeed, and no cross kills.

    The game has one fewer mislynches available to the town.
    I don't think you read the setup

    I suggested Mattix 12 as a smaller alternative to the 21er C9++ expanded variant I had suggested.

    Matrix12 has been played 15+ times in the last few months with about even town win/loss ratio.

  18. ISO #18

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    I don't think you read the setup

    I suggested Mattix 12 as a smaller alternative to the 21er C9++ expanded variant I had suggested.

    Matrix12 has been played 15+ times in the last few months with about even town win/loss ratio.
    I guess I didn't read.
    Don't pet growlithe, he will bite you.

  19. ISO #19

  20. ISO #20

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    Ummm that game wasn't balanced to begin with.
    Like just because a unbalanced game could turn out too somehow still work to in towns favor just means the swing turned on scum.
    I wouldn't bring that in here as example of anything but bad play and luck.


    And your post was very disrespectful.
    You asked for examples. This is one where you played on a stacked team and still lost.

    You claimed my setup was unbalanced and not based on C9++ , I just pulled out the C9++ setup.
    You said scum are too powerful, I told you how I buffed 2 town PRs and buffed the Neutral Killing.

    I'm not sure why you're arguing, but the purpose isn't balance related. I don't think it ever was tbh. This is proven to be balanced.

  21. ISO #21

  22. ISO #22

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebringer View Post
    I predict a scum win in this game then.
    Like, hardcore.
    I anticipate a scum win due to lurkers and town players that refuse to do any kind of scum hunting. But honestly thats a player base issue not so much as a setup balance issue. I have to agree with Frog that the setup has effectively been run countless times with statistics built around the win rates from multiple sites that reflects it being balanced.

    Sadly this lack of scum hunting and lurking is why FM's are suffering here to begin with.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  23. ISO #23

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I anticipate a scum win due to lurkers and town players that refuse to do any kind of scum hunting. But honestly thats a player base issue not so much as a setup balance issue. I have to agree with Frog that the setup has effectively been run countless times with statistics built around the win rates from multiple sites that reflects it being balanced.

    Sadly this lack of scum hunting and lurking is why FM's are suffering here to begin with.
    Aka we are too shit to play this setup.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  24. ISO #24

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    The thing about Night Zero Cop, is the cop hunting element on scum's part, as well as the seer-hunter-clearing aspect of the game. It makes quite a bit of the game set regardless of lurking.

    I included the spoilered strategy to showcase how this game would effectively be different than any other game so far - where Day 1 actually matters to those who would suggest otherwise.

    In any event, I doubt this gets voted through judging by the poll. Or I guess judging by the last time I was here in a poll.

  25. ISO #25

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    Aka we are too shit to play this setup.
    Honestly this community could totally handle and do setups larger than this. There are tons of very skilled players. Its just that as the quality of games fell the good players played less causing them to fall even more. The catch-22 is real. I personally don't want to sign up for games because I know I just get pissed off and frustrated trying to figure out some guys alignment who does not care about the game and is hardly even playing. I do not play games to win, I play them to enjoy the experience.

    Probably just need 1 asshole host that is willing to verify a players level of commitment and basic competence to turn it around. Someone that has the balls to tell players they are not allowed to play in this game because they will drag it down. Someone who gives a shit enough about the game to network into other communities and draw quality signs if ours fails to fill. Is it an ungodly amount of work to effectively do all these things? Fuck yes. But I would argue that being a good host is much more time demanding than being the most active and productive player in the game they are hosting. Too many hosts slap a setup together, hand out cards/feedback/Day start and end posts, then just hunt for green text asking questions and look at post count to do replacements. Everything rises and falls on leadership and if a game did not go well its a failure of that host.

    My point was not that our community sucks, its that the only reason I expect scum to sweep is because of the pattern of apathetic, lazy, or uncommitted players that have found their way into the games. I am not saying only pro players should be allowed to play at all. Just that if you have no intention of even reading the entire thread and playing the game with deception and analysis you will make any game more scum sided. If town you will just be useless. If scum you will just blend in with useless town and be nearly impossible to find because you are hardly playing.

    I bet this is all shit that everyone knows and has been said over and over before. But it is what it is. I really do think this setup is actually balanced but will be scum sided given how shit has been going around here.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  26. ISO #26

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Thoughts below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Honestly this community could totally handle and do setups larger than this. There are tons of very skilled players. Its just that as the quality of games fell the good players played less causing them to fall even more.
    The skilled players have moved on due to life changes (just don't have as much time to play anymore), apathy / disinterest (the point you made above about setup quality), and the momentum effect of the worse the site's player base gets, the more quality players get run off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    The catch-22 is real. I personally don't want to sign up for games because I know I just get pissed off and frustrated trying to figure out some guys alignment who does not care about the game and is hardly even playing. I do not play games to win, I play them to enjoy the experience.
    This is the problem and many of us feel the same way. Why waste time signing for a game and putting a ton of energy in it when say 3/13 players are going to be replaced out, another 2-3 are going to be hardcore lurkers, and another 2-3 are going to be heavily anti-town regardless of alignment and for no particular reason? Just doesn't make for a fun game when only half the players or less are trying to play the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Probably just need 1 asshole host that is willing to verify a players level of commitment and basic competence to turn it around. Someone that has the balls to tell players they are not allowed to play in this game because they will drag it down.
    The site could benefit from rules allowing hosts to disallow signups by players who are going to tank games and who have done so repeatedly. I understand the ethos of wanting everyone to be able to play, but the bad apples are ruining it for the rest of us. We should not have the same smurf accounts signing up for games and not playing game after game. If you no-show games, you should not be allowed to sign for future games. Other sites do a much better job policing this type of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Someone who gives a shit enough about the game to network into other communities and draw quality signs if ours fails to fill.
    This is a tough one -- we just don't have anyone with that much passion for the game that they are going to join other sites, cultivate relationships, and encourage those people to give our site a try. Maybe the better option right now is to reach out to less active players of note around here and see if they would give it another shot with a carefully selected game of good players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    Is it an ungodly amount of work to effectively do all these things? Fuck yes. But I would argue that being a good host is much more time demanding than being the most active and productive player in the game they are hosting. Too many hosts slap a setup together, hand out cards/feedback/Day start and end posts, then just hunt for green text asking questions and look at post count to do replacements. Everything rises and falls on leadership and if a game did not go well its a failure of that host.
    The host issue is a circular problem. Yes, hosts should be much more stringent on replacing inactives out of games, but we just don't have the glut of possible reserves given the depleted ranks. A number of recent hosts have had to beg anyone they could find to replace in or else modkill a slot or allow a zero poster type to remain in the game. Perhaps the solution is smaller games where we can actually line up 3 reserves in case they are needed? These days, 1-2 reserves are a luxury and often times, they aren't able to play when called on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    My point was not that our community sucks, its that the only reason I expect scum to sweep is because of the pattern of apathetic, lazy, or uncommitted players that have found their way into the games. I am not saying only pro players should be allowed to play at all. Just that if you have no intention of even reading the entire thread and playing the game with deception and analysis you will make any game more scum sided. If town you will just be useless. If scum you will just blend in with useless town and be nearly impossible to find because you are hardly playing.
    It's been discussed in Staff Chat a couple of times, but it's really a free-rider problem. The players who won't try get the benefit of being in games with players who do try, but they are slowly driving away those effort players so basically, there won't be anything left to play soon if this trend continues. Not sure how to fix this. Public shame is an option as is not allowing chronically replaced out or zero effort players to sign for games. I get that it's not the nicest thing in the world, but it's far better than letting games be ruined and our FM community disappear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I bet this is all shit that everyone knows and has been said over and over before. But it is what it is. I really do think this setup is actually balanced but will be scum sided given how shit has been going around here.
    I agree given how many players these days find FM as more of a means of shitposting and messing around than where they should scumhunt and try to play the game.
    Last edited by DarknessB; September 20th, 2016 at 01:23 PM.

  27. ISO #27

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    I am not pushing for rule changes or some shit. I am just saying why I only play a few games a year here and outlining some things I think makes a good host. This was more to outline why I believe the setup is totally balanced but will probably be scum sided for our site.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  28. ISO #28

  29. ISO #29

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Lots of lols to be had here

    Im not going to go through point for point as it could quickly devolve into community bashing/ not my intention.

    If you want to play a decent game, try a standard game. I guarantee it will raise everyone's skill level.

    E.g. 6 Vanilla Town, 1 night Zero Alignment Cop, 2 Mafia goons.

    For reference, Helz and I played an awesome 2 vs. 7 pure vanilla game which was probably the highest level game I've ever played ever. Everyone left happy because everyone played well (with only one error from a townie self voting out of anger on day 2):
    https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/...he-Chosen-Ones

    This setup builds on the basics and keeps things very simple. Simple isn't bad. It's fun because it's balanced and requires everyone play into the simple.

    Here, we often over complicate setups to the point of relying on tunneling and mechanical hand holding to get a game through. It's just not an enjoyable approach to the Mafia games for me when players still don't grasp the basics.

    Over the last year I've been developing relationships across communities with all types of players. The common similarities across the websites: players understand the basics, hosting is more strict, administrative levels exist to improve player experiences- not to troll or punish.

  30. ISO #30

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Let's just pretend that my opinion matters for this one post, ok?

    Quote Originally Posted by DarknessB View Post
    This is the problem and many of us feel the same way. Why waste time signing for a game and putting a ton of energy in it when say 3/13 players are going to be replaced out, another 2-3 are going to be hardcore lurkers, and another 2-3 are going to be heavily anti-town regardless of alignment and for no particular reason? Just doesn't make for a fun game when only half the players or less are trying to play the game. The site could benefit from rules allowing hosts to disallow signups by players who are going to tank games and who have done so repeatedly. I understand the ethos of wanting everyone to be able to play, but the bad apples are ruining it for the rest of us. We should not have the same smurf accounts signing up for games and not playing game after game. If you no-show games, you should not be allowed to sign for future games. Other sites do a much better job policing this type of thing.
    The solution I am proposing here is inspired from TrueAchievements.com's gaming sessions. When somebody creates a gaming session to boost for/work towards achievements, he has the option to make his lobby semi-open.
    Spoiler : Picture :
    Anybody may apply, and the host has the freedom to accept or deny applications.

    I personally think this would be a great feature for this site. Players who want to partake in a game will have to convince the host that they are going to be active and try to play to their win condition to be allowed to play.

    Also, after completing a gaming session on TrueAchievements, players who were in the session have the possibility to give the other participants feedback. On one hand, someone who was a no show or who griefed during the session will most likely get negative feedback from the other players. On the other hand, the person who did his best to make the session enjoyable and productive will likely receive positive feedback. There is also the possibility to get "OK" feedback.
    Spoiler : Pictures of giving and receiving feedback. :


    Hosts who create new sessions have access to everybody's feedback. If they see someone with 10 straight no shows, they are likely to refuse said player's application.

    Combined with my proposition of implementing "semi-open" games, this feature could be of great use. Post-game, we would give everybody else constructive feedback regarding their play that game. If a player lurked/trolled too much, the others would give him an "OK" or a negative feedback. Lurkers or very low volume posters like Gyrlander would have to move their asses if they ever want to be accepted in another FM game. Likewise, if a player tried his hardest to solve the game and made the game enjoyable, he would be given positive feedback.

    Feedback is accessible to everyone even the player in question. If the feedback one receives is erroneous/biased, he should have the possibility to contest it, much like the appeals work over in the "Punished Players and Appeals" section of this site.

    These two features would give the hosts more power to decide how they want their game to be played and would make for a more enjoyable experience as the lurkers and company wouldn't make it into the game.

    EDIT: Tagging the FM Moderator crew @MattZed , @Orpz , @Calix as I am confident this would aid the community a ton.

    The host issue is a circular problem. Yes, hosts should be much more stringent on replacing inactives out of games, but we just don't have the glut of possible reserves given the depleted ranks. A number of recent hosts have had to beg anyone they could find to replace in or else modkill a slot or allow a zero poster type to remain in the game. Perhaps the solution is smaller games where we can actually line up 3 reserves in case they are needed? These days, 1-2 reserves are a luxury and often times, they aren't able to play when called on.
    Yes, the limited player base is a problem. This site could use some advertising.

    A solution for replacements: Make a separate thread for replacements like it is done on TeamLiquid. Hosts looking for replacements would know where to go if they are ever in need of one, and members who do not always keep up to date with FM but are interested in replacing would find their way easily.

    EDIT: Apologies for my English. It is particularly bad today for some reason.
    Last edited by Never Unlucky; September 20th, 2016 at 04:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    DUDE, YOURE ONLY LEFT ALIVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EXTRA CHROMOSOME DO YOU NOT SEE THAT

  31. ISO #31

  32. ISO #32

  33. ISO #33

  34. ISO #34

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    But like here is what I'm trying to say:

    There is no rule in place to stop the host choosing who can play and who does not.
    There never has been a rule.

    Stop acting like every host has been forced to accept every sign on their list.
    I am aware of that. My suggestions are extensions of this idea. They are not solely geared towards fixing this problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    DUDE, YOURE ONLY LEFT ALIVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EXTRA CHROMOSOME DO YOU NOT SEE THAT

  35. ISO #35

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    I don't have a strong opinion on anything Never Unlucky said except for the replacement thread that was suggested.
    I think that having a replacement thread is a waste of time and a hassle to both hosts and replacees.

    Some players don't want to play certain setups, nor do they want to play with certain people. They should be allowed to choose-- before they are told they are getting into _______ game.

    Replacements should be expected to read at least some of the game they replace into, and those that have signed as a replacement are probably more likely going to read the game before they are asked to replace in.

    ::

    Replacement people are also usually the same people. Saying "/replace" in the Host's sign up thread is more of a ritual to say "Hey, I might have some time."

  36. ISO #36

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by secondpassing View Post
    I don't have a strong opinion on anything Never Unlucky said except for the replacement thread that was suggested.
    I think that having a replacement thread is a waste of time and a hassle to both hosts and replacees.

    Some players don't want to play certain setups, nor do they want to play with certain people. They should be allowed to choose-- before they are told they are getting into _______ game.

    Replacements should be expected to read at least some of the game they replace into, and those that have signed as a replacement are probably more likely going to read the game before they are asked to replace in.

    ::

    Replacement people are also usually the same people. Saying "/replace" in the Host's sign up thread is more of a ritual to say "Hey, I might have some time."
    Right. It doesn't do wonders over on TL either.

    However, the "Semi-open" games in which players message the host as a warrantees that they will be active has proved its worth. I think it should be looked into.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesk514 View Post
    DUDE, YOURE ONLY LEFT ALIVE BECAUSE YOU HAVE AN EXTRA CHROMOSOME DO YOU NOT SEE THAT

  37. ISO #37

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperJack View Post
    But like here is what I'm trying to say:

    There is no rule in place to stop the host choosing who can play and who does not.
    There never has been a rule.

    Stop acting like every host has been forced to accept every sign on their list.
    I am not sure that anyone has said they are forced to accept signs. I would personally have liked it better if they had been forced given the constant issues because it would be an easy fix. I was pushing that most hosts do not do due diligence on accounts signing up for the large games which results in massive lurking and replacements.
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  38. ISO #38

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Helz View Post
    I am not sure that anyone has said they are forced to accept signs. I would personally have liked it better if they had been forced given the constant issues because it would be an easy fix. I was pushing that most hosts do not do due diligence on accounts signing up for the large games which results in massive lurking and replacements.
    Yeh I know. The issue isn't with the current structure of hosting, its just been that the hosts haven't gone as far as to say no. There isn't much need for additional rules/extentions. Just some hosts that will refuse signs. So before adding additional things, just make sure the hosts know they can be assholes if needed.
    Cryptonic made this sig

    Quote Originally Posted by HentaiManOfPeace View Post
    gotchu fam

    Attachment 28016

  39. ISO #39

  40. ISO #40

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    We're getting a bit off topic here, but I will respond to a very important point brought up by @Never Unlucky .

    For most games on the site, it is the official FM Moderation policy that hosts are not allowed to exclude specific players. This is largely for reasons of fairness (everyone needs an equal shot at the S-FM ladder, for instance) and maintaining a more exclusive community. On rare occasion, though, the FM moderation will approve disallowing a sign from a player who has an exceptionally poor record of participation.

    However, I do hear the point you bring up with "semi-open" setups. Having inactive players in a game, well, sucks. While hosts cannot prevent players from signing, they are in complete control of their replacement policy. If you want to be stricter on how soon you replace a player who seems like they won't keep up, go ahead! One technique that has worked for many hosts is asking all players to confirm their intent to play right before the game begins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow View Post
    What. You got me. Stop unvoting and stretch my neck, dammit.

  41. ISO #41

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Personally I agree with a lot of NU's ideas. The main issue is, like Helz said, that we do not have enough players to enforce such policies. The result is that hosts end up scraping the bottom of the barrel to fill games, thus lowering the gameplay quality, thus driving away more players, thus making it harder to fill up games...

    Really it's a horrendous problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Orpz View Post
    Why'd you leave out the sun emoji? I think it creates a huge sense of tone that is critical for the interpretation of the chat.
    Quote Originally Posted by FM Romeo View Post
    Go fuck yourself in the cucho.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed
    Your accent has ruined medieval fantasy films.

  42. ISO #42

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    We're getting a bit off topic here, but I will respond to a very important point brought up by @Never Unlucky .

    For most games on the site, it is the official FM Moderation policy that hosts are not allowed to exclude specific players. This is largely for reasons of fairness (everyone needs an equal shot at the S-FM ladder, for instance) and maintaining a more exclusive community. On rare occasion, though, the FM moderation will approve disallowing a sign from a player who has an exceptionally poor record of participation.

    However, I do hear the point you bring up with "semi-open" setups. Having inactive players in a game, well, sucks. While hosts cannot prevent players from signing, they are in complete control of their replacement policy. If you want to be stricter on how soon you replace a player who seems like they won't keep up, go ahead! One technique that has worked for many hosts is asking all players to confirm their intent to play right before the game begins.
    @SuperJack . This is what I was getting at with my initial posts -- under current FM rules, hosts cannot exclude players short of extraordinary circumstances. I understand the fairness motivation, but at some point, we end up protecting the players who ruin games (via AFK / lurking) over the players who actually want to play them. Many of us feel like the balance has tipped over in that direction and IMO, it explains the fading away of more active players in part.

    In the past, hosts were able to exclude their games from the ladder in order to make them semi-open / invite only -- I would highly suggest that option be considered once again given the lack of interest in the ladder generally speaking and high percentage of AFK / heavily lurking players in games these days. The status quo simply isn't working and players are running out of patience for games with +/-2 smurfs who never post and have to be replaced out, +/-2 heavy lurking / AFK players, and +/-2 players who have no intention of trying / scumhunting.
    Last edited by DarknessB; September 21st, 2016 at 10:44 AM.

  43. ISO #43

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    If anyone wants to play a higher level game here on SC2 - highly suggest we play the standard variant here... Now?

    2 goons
    1 night zero cop
    6 vanilla townies

    I have the mean girls flavor all set up.

    I'd suggest anyone looking for a serious type game /pre sign.

    I'll play and ask an offsite friend/ literally anyone to host.

    9 dedicated players should be plenty doable.

    If that works, we can try the 13 variant with +4

    If that works, we can try Matrix 12 17er variant (more roles)

    If that works, custom M-FM's will be 100% more enjoyable

  44. ISO #44

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    [Operation Building the Base]

    Phase 1: Standard 9er
    Phase 2: Standard 13er
    Phase 3: Matrix 12
    Phase 4: PLAY 1 GAME OFF SITE - MAKE FRIENDS
    Phase 5: M-FM
    Phase 6: FM with stronger base + invitations

    If you want to get to point Z, identify the problems, address them in steps. It's not that hard.
    Spoiler : unless :
    Unless there are mods purely to troll and hinder player experience

  45. ISO #45

  46. ISO #46

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    [Operation Building the Base]

    Phase 1: Standard 9er
    Phase 2: Standard 13er
    Phase 3: Matrix 12
    Phase 4: PLAY 1 GAME OFF SITE - MAKE FRIENDS
    Phase 5: M-FM
    Phase 6: FM with stronger base + invitations

    If you want to get to point Z, identify the problems, address them in steps. It's not that hard.
    Spoiler : while true... :
    The mod's intent is to do their job. They are also human like the rest of us and will make mistakes
    4: The other websites' site layout kinda looks bad. I've only found one other that looks aesthetically pleasing but their playerbase is too small to run any FMs.
    6: Excuse me Frog, what is phase 6? What is an FM with a stronger base?

  47. ISO #47

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    I guess I was wrong. Hosts were forced to accept shit signs and not allowed to do due diligence.
    Quote Originally Posted by MattZed View Post
    While hosts cannot prevent players from signing, they are in complete control of their replacement policy.
    Fortunately with this in mind they could just replace the player the first second of D1 for any reason : )
    Someone exploit this shit to ensure good games and things will improve
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

  48. ISO #48

    Re: M-FM Rick and Morty

    Quote Originally Posted by Frog View Post
    If anyone wants to play a higher level game here on SC2 - highly suggest we play the standard variant here... Now?

    2 goons
    1 night zero cop
    6 vanilla townies

    I have the mean girls flavor all set up.

    I'd suggest anyone looking for a serious type game /pre sign.

    I'll play and ask an offsite friend/ literally anyone to host.

    9 dedicated players should be plenty doable.

    If that works, we can try the 13 variant with +4

    If that works, we can try Matrix 12 17er variant (more roles)

    If that works, custom M-FM's will be 100% more enjoyable
    Yarrrrrrrrrrrr
    Intellectual growth comes from discussions, not arguments. If you are unwilling to change your position and hear the other persons side you are closed minded and wasting your time.
    If you can not clearly explain what the other sides reasoning is you can not disagree with their position because you do not understand it.

 

 

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