S-FM 216 Spirits

[Unknown1234]

I am the sheriff, not you. I would love to hear your explanation though, but I had a feeling you were scum, which is exactly why I checked you and was waiting to see what you claimed. That was easy.

^^

[yzb25]

He would race to make that claim to get unknown mislynched...we don't know who his scummy mate is, and he made this deduction after unknown said he checked yzb last night and he came up red.

Basically his claim is "why would I make this claim, knowing it would force a cc." Well you could force the cc to make the claim of why would you force a cc as scum so that it would give more credence to him being town. Basically reverse psychology.

Honestly it is a coin flip. Idk, I'm voting yzb because I believe unknown. Bc for unknown to cc or claim sheriff as alpha wolf would be stupid imo.

That's not what I said there. Read it properly.

And yzb said that he checked unknown n1 and unknown came up town. So by extension unknown would HAVE to be the Alpha wolf for yzb theory to work. And the likelihood of them both checking mesk just seems far fetched to me. It would have been smarter for the scum to say they checked me of bananas or someone else and say they came up town or something. Unknown seems more at ease in this cc where yzb seems way more frantic, and town motivation would lend itself to being less frantic since even if we mislynch were getting the right person tonight or tomorrow's lynch. Yzb seems to have his back against the wall.

Bro, who the hell expects to be nearly-beaten to a CC as sheriff, before LYLO? Like you wouldn't be excitable as fuck in such a situation.

Are you townreading Unknown for saying he checked Mesk, after I already said I checked Mesk, because that sounds like a stupid coincidence that scum wouldn't fake?

Do you mean because there are 2 scum and Unknown is actually Alpha wolf pretending to be sheriff? Instead of the consig? If not, you made a claim earlier that Unknown was consig and is framing you b/c he found you're sheriff...so do you think he's Alpha Wolf or Consig?Do you have any guesses as to who his mate might be?

I didn't claim he was consig earlier. I said I "reckon" consig checked me n1, and found out I was sheriff for d2.

Very towny thing to say...top portion is all logic. Bottom portion shows unknown is willing to fall on the sword for the town. I don't think a scum would do that, or maybe unknown is reverse psychologizing me...but I doubt it.

Winning arguments doesn't make you scum, nor does aptitude with rhetoric.

1. it's DW not POD. 2. Why would you make a claim that you might have been healed, to defend against a 1v1 claim when you know 100% that Unknown is scum if you are Town. 3. The whole making it look more natural thing just lost me, you're saying he's bread crumbing sheriff so that it would bait the real sheriff into claiming? So you took the bait and now he's using it against you? 4. "I reckon your consig checked me n1, and then when you found out I was sheriff you put this little scheme together heh" So they found out you were sheriff, and they DIDN'T kill you at night? They just assumed (by your enormous contributions LOL) that you were possibly healed by DW...and thus you were not a good kill? So instead of not claiming, and playing it safe, and going to kill you tonight...you think they are framing you, which would make them auto lose someone and put them in a terrible position...why not just stay quiet and see if you claim? There's a leap here in logic.

1 and 2. You've misunderstood. Unknown affirmed he was "certain" I wasn't healed by the shaman, and I was saying it was plausible.
3. You have an "idealized image" in your mind of what a town does. Unknown deceives you by exploiting this "idealized image". This is an example of Unknown appealing to that "idealized image" when he crumbs sheriff at the start - as has been pointed out, if he were sheriff this would be a misplay, but it looks sheriff-y because, after all, what do sheriffs do? Stereotypically, they mysteriously crumb having an important announcement to make, at the start of the day. You probably see this as bullshit, but this is how players like Unknown consistenly fool you. I wrote about this earlier - it was the main reason I scumread him d1.

4. I think it's pretty obvious they were trying to hit the vigi last night. Besides, why bother killing me when you can just initiate a CC war and likely win, because people will probably believe you, because scums are so unlikely to start CC wars... lol
They are not in a terrible situation. After you spend another lynch on Unknown (you have to he's Alpha), you'll be in a 2v1 if vigi shoots and misses. Clearly Unknown has faith his last scummate can win at LYLO.

Logical. Makes sense. Towny.

No it doesn't. I asked why, if he has me as a scumcheck, he didn't pressure me and try to draw out the other scum, because it's a 72h day and he had the time to do so. He responded by literally saying "I don't feel the need to hold this information from the town". That's pure rhetoric.

The pink portion of this made me think the validity of it is questionable at best. I just don't understand the logic of soft claiming sheriff when you had a red check on him, I get seeing if he was spirit, but like idk...at this point, it would have been better to just outwardly claim say your information. I feel like the way you went about claiming could really just lead this 50/50 to go either way. I felt like banana put solid reasons forth on why the sheriff should have just claimed, and then you could have pressured yzb into CCing or claiming citizen/tribesman and then giving him the benefit of the doubt or asking vigi to shoot him and scum hunt somewhere else. I get you admit it was a mistake, just makes me feel a little uneasy the way you went about it is all.

Oh, I also didn't like that yzb claimed to check mesk first and then you just so happen checked her as well. Just feels all too convenient for me. You have mirror claims.

Well, I guess I agree with this. But you shouldn't scumread it because it's a misplay if he's sheriff. You should scumread it because it's a misplay if he's sheriff, but there's a plausible explanation for why it isn't a misplay as scum - the "idealized image" thing.

Yeah, this only lends to your theory that unknown was alpha, but if you're consig of course they'd both come up green..

Yes, if I'm consig, and scum, obviously I'm not actually capable of sheriffing people lol.

I do like that you claimed to check mesk first, which gives a little more credence to your story since unknown apparently also checked her but a different night. Just seems oddly parallel. Just weird you'd throw shade on someone who came up green...

We both gave credible explanations for why we visited Mesk, tbh. It's weird that Unknown supposedly misread Mesk's 0 fucks given attitude on d1 in the first place, because of how well they know eachother, but that doesn't in and of itself mean much.

I lean this a town statement, because it seems you checked him...but why would he cc you. Your explanation makes sense, but the series of events is just a little off to me. You lead us to a cc, just so happens the person you red checked is the same person who cc'd you. I don't know, it just seems, too convenient once again.

I'm not sure I understand what you meant. The people saying I'm scum are arguing I preempted Unknown would attack me, thus I decided to CC him. That's convenient for some reasons, but I don't think my reasons are the same as yours.

Just makes it seem like you knew he was going to claim b/c you caught his bread trail and you're trying to flip the claim on him.

Yeah, I figured he was going to claim sheriff, and I felt badass as fuck for doing it before him hahah.


I really don't like this, I feel like you created a situation in which you would be cc'd and it almost feels like this was very dumb to state things like this. Like, why would a town member be this vague. Why wouldn't you just observe him more given we got a 72 hour day?


Yeah, that's the point I was making above lol.

The examples of "tutoring" seemed weak and forced in my opinion. Yzb is a know it all, and he takes the time to lecture people all of the time. It could be subtle hints, but I doubt it. If yzb put himself in a dumb ass 1v1 cc like this as scum, he would not be smart enough to drop arrow little hints.

I dedicated a 6/7 line post to my approach to Arrow. I'm surprised noone is referring to it. If SJ finishes his fucking ISO his read on me will probably go more green >.>

Yzb couldn't be bothered all game to scum hunt. His largest contribution was painting stereo as an absolute scum. Which, tbh, Banana claimed scum was trying to do. I feel like that large post was really a nail in the coffin for Yzb because he subtly laid the groundwork for a vigi misshot with that scathing ISO. So, tbh, it looks like Yzb probably had a lot to gain from that.

Subtly? I wrote a massive fucking ISO on the guy. Why would I do that as scum if I had already gotten shit for being on the wrong side of the fence with Arrow? You had no problem with the ISO when you first read it. If you think my reads on Stereo weren't genuine / reasonable you can explain why now, because that ISO was fucking great, even if it was wrong.

-vote yzb25

If I'm wrong, @Unknown1234 is just a better scum than you are town. Soz, matey.

Savage

Also, another thing that bothered me.

Yzb never voted anyone. He put votes on people, but he always made sure he took his votes off.

Unknown was willing to vote out Arrow on Day one. But not SJ, which shows he actually developed some sort of reads. Did jump on the AR train, if only we didn't switch to SJ, I am curious if Unknown would have stayed on Arrow with us or if still would have flipped. However, Day 2 Unknown voted Arrow pretty early on.

yzb flipped off of arrow very quickly when he offered very weak very weak reads that made a few of us go HUH?! ... jack used it as an example of "tutoring"

The more I think back, there's just more that bothers me about YZB.

Then don't think back, read back. My contributions only look low because we're in a 100 page game. I've written about 40 posts prob'ly, and about 20 of which are giving deep thoughts. I don't think I can beat Unknown, but I'm sure you of all people should be able to see that I'm town this game.

Voting point is mute. Last game I did not vote at all as town. You pointed that out too, I believe. I think you're tunneling a bit by scumreading that, as it contradicts your knowledge of my personality.

[yzb25]

^^

Sorry man, I'm too busy coming up with excuses to scumread you to repeat my fabricated explanation of how I'm sheriff.

[Unknown1234]

Yzb, one thing that shows how obvious you are scum is because you are acting completely desperate to be saved. Sure, it is nice to have the scum lynched first, but if I were to be lynched I would not be upset with it because i don't think I've played my best at all this game.

That being said, PTB, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to defend myself when you say "You checked the same person as Yzb so you're bad".

If you look at me, there is a big difference in how I act because eventually I lost belief in Mesk being Alpha Wolf, so I let it alone for now. If I check someone, I'm not going to lie and say I checked someone else because just because Yzb claims to have checked Mesk.

[Unknown1234]

@Firebringer and @Mesk514 have yet to show up today :/

[yzb25]

Yzb, one thing that shows how obvious you are scum is because you are acting completely desperate to be saved. Sure, it is nice to have the scum lynched first, but if I were to be lynched I would not be upset with it because i don't think I've played my best at all this game.

That being said, PTB, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to defend myself when you say "You checked the same person as Yzb so you're bad".

If you look at me, there is a big difference in how I act because eventually I lost belief in Mesk being Alpha Wolf, so I let it alone for now. If I check someone, I'm not going to lie and say I checked someone else because just because Yzb claims to have checked Mesk.

Yeah, obviously. I must be scum because I don't want to be mislynched and scorned by Darknessb in the post game again.

Anyway Sheriff, why did you choose to check me? What seemed scummy? I'd just posted that ISO, Quick had given me a glowing townread, and I'd explained the Arrow situation. What made you think I was scum?

[Unknown1234]

do you have an excuse for everything?

Why do you ask this question? Considering you acknowledged earlier that I had been always suspicious of you, suddenly it's unexpected for you to have been checked by me? Also, stop using other people's reads on you as an exemplar for everyone else. "Quick town-read me so there's no reason for you to scum read me"

[SuperJack]

You're still doing that ISO on me, right? It's literally more important than ever now that we're in this situation.

Have you done yours on unknown? You first. =) oh and a fb one if you get chance after.

I'm working right now for a while.

[yzb25]

do you have an excuse for everything?

Why do you ask this question? Considering you acknowledged earlier that I had been always suspicious of you, suddenly it's unexpected for you to have been checked by me? Also, stop using other people's reads on you as an exemplar for everyone else. "Quick town-read me so there's no reason for you to scum read me"

Are you saying I should have less explanations for things, to be towny? Do you scumread reasoning in general?

I know you were hostile to me on d1, that doesn't mean I know why. My point is, others seemed to townread me, so what lead you to disagree with them?

[yzb25]

Have you done yours on unknown? You first. =) oh and a fb one if you get chance after.

I'm working right now for a while.

I'm not doing an ISO on Unknown. That's completely unhelpful to you, because obviously I'm completely biased. I'm doing the ISO on FB because that makes sense as something worth having after I die >.>

What's the deal with this "you first" shit, anyway? You said you were going to ISO me, because that's clearly a good thing to do for town. Stop being a lazy shit and do it lol.

[Gyrlander]

My apologies, Unknown. I've reconsidered the currently eventos and decided it is more worth to Lynch yzb.

-vote yzb25

[yzb25]

My apologies, Unknown. I've reconsidered the currently eventos and decided it is more worth to Lynch yzb.

-vote yzb25

Why?

[yzb25]

I'm not doing an ISO on Unknown. That's completely unhelpful to you, because obviously I'm completely biased. I'm doing the ISO on FB because that makes sense as something worth having after I die >.>

What's the deal with this "you first" shit, anyway? You said you were going to ISO me, because that's clearly a good thing to do for town. Stop being a lazy shit and do it lol.

Oh, you're busy. Okay but do it >.>

[SuperJack]

You have to convince everyone that your shetiff, and how unknown is not sheriff. That's why ibrecconebed the ISO on him.

You can also try a self ISO.

[yzb25]

You have to convince everyone that your shetiff, and how unknown is not sheriff. That's why ibrecconebed the ISO on him.

You can also try a self ISO.

I'm not doing a self ISO, or an ISO on unknown. I have explained myself and will answer any questions you have, but there is a degree of responsibility on the rest of you to actually play the fucking game and read me and unknown yourself.

[Unknown1234]

So, given that Yzb will be dead within either today, tonight, or tomorrow, I will probably be dead as well within that time.

My strongest pairing would be with Firebringer and Yzb. I think that if anyone should need pressuring it SHOULD be him.

If it isn't him, the only other person I could really suspect would be Mesk. If Yzb is the Alpha Wolf, then I'm confident enough to say that the scum team is Firebringer and Yzb. If it's anyone outside of that I'd be completely surprised.

[Mesk514]

I guess there's only one thing for me to do

-vote YZB25

[Unknown1234]

I guess there's only one thing for me to do

-vote YZB25

You got stuff to say?

[Mesk514]

You got stuff to say?

Not really, haven't read anything that's really happened since mid day yesterday soo.
All I know is there's a claim and a CC. It's obvious that if yzb isn't scum then unknown is sooo

[yzb25]

So, given that Yzb will be dead within either today, tonight, or tomorrow, I will probably be dead as well within that time.

My strongest pairing would be with Firebringer and Yzb. I think that if anyone should need pressuring it SHOULD be him.

If it isn't him, the only other person I could really suspect would be Mesk. If Yzb is the Alpha Wolf, then I'm confident enough to say that the scum team is Firebringer and Yzb. If it's anyone outside of that I'd be completely surprised.

You know what? Fuck this town. You deserve to succeed with this strat. I'm so intrigued to see what you have planned. If I actually convinced town to vote with me, the town would steamroll. I'm only fighting this because I don't want to accept I got mislynched under such ridiculous circumstances - in other words, this is purely an ego thing.

-vote yzb125

I'll do the ISO around 10. Feel free to hammer me before then because then I'll have an excuse not to do it. Maybe one day I'll learn not to talk like such a shifty piece of shit and just go for the classic staunch town approach like Unknown.

I'm also interested in the focus in FB. I look forward to finding out whether your focus on him is a framing or a bussing.

[yzb25]

Not really, haven't read anything that's really happened since mid day yesterday soo.
All I know is there's a claim and a CC. It's obvious that if yzb isn't scum then unknown is sooo

Yeah this town is a plague that needs to be purged. I understand the will of the wolf spirits now. Let me join you pls.

[Mesk514]

Yeah this town is a plague that needs to be purged. I understand the will of the wolf spirits now. Let me join you pls.

Fuck me Fuck you boo

[Unknown1234]

Why didn't my post send?

[Unknown1234]

You know what? Fuck this town. You deserve to succeed with this strat. I'm so intrigued to see what you have planned. If I actually convinced town to vote with me, the town would steamroll. I'm only fighting this because I don't want to accept I got mislynched under such ridiculous circumstances - in other words, this is purely an ego thing.

-vote yzb125

I'll do the ISO around 10. Feel free to hammer me before then because then I'll have an excuse not to do it. Maybe one day I'll learn not to talk like such a shifty piece of shit and just go for the classic staunch town approach like Unknown.

I'm also interested in the focus in FB. I look forward to finding out whether your focus on him is a framing or a bussing.

I'm not sure why you would care this much as a Town. I can see you are trying to come off as pissed off, but there would be two confirmed towns if you were Town and you would have a Vig who could eliminate anyone who is suspicious. Which is why most people are voting you, you come off too desperate for a town which is making you look scummy.

I don't believe you, just for the record. Even if I die, there is no reason for me to suspect anyone other than you two.

[SuperJack]

Yzb stop being a drama queen.
It's not towns fault that you look more scummy than Unknown ATM. It's yours and unknowns fault. As a sheriff the optimum play is to show us how unknown is scum and how you are sheriff.

As sheriff there is 0 use in a Firebringer ISO, as you will be dead and it won't matter.

You must prove To us that you are sheriff so that we don't mislynch and waste a Vigi kill, with the possibility of wasting another lynch

[SuperJack]

If on the other hand you are scum and don't want to waste time. Feel free to claim so.

[BananaCucho]

Um that frustration feels like town frustration. Now I'm conflicted.

[Mesk514]

Um that frustration feels like town frustration. Now I'm conflicted.

Honestly what bothers me is unknown flopping onto the day lynch

[Mesk514]

Day 1 lynch*

[Unknown1234]

Honestly what bothers me is unknown flopping onto the day lynch

I voted AR because I would rather have a Pl then have my town-read get lynched. Not sure why that is suspicious.

[PowersThatBe]

-unvote

hold up

[BananaCucho]

I keep going over different scenarios in my head but they all come back to the same conclusion that lynching now is the best move.

So here's what I want from Unknown and yzb. Write me a song about me. Whoever's is better, I'll join you in voting the other.

[PowersThatBe]

I'm not sure why you would care this much as a Town. I can see you are trying to come off as pissed off, but there would be two confirmed towns if you were Town and you would have a Vig who could eliminate anyone who is suspicious. Which is why most people are voting you, you come off too desperate for a town which is making you look scummy.

I don't believe you, just for the record. Even if I die, there is no reason for me to suspect anyone other than you two.

WTF? Explain this. You claimed Sheriff, he CC'd why would you need to state you don't believe him? If you know you're town he cant be anything other...so why would you need to state you don't believe him? The way this is phrased is almost like you don't know if he's scum but you don't believe his reasons for not being scum. But if you're our sheriff, he HASt to be scum....

[SuperJack]

A town never counterclaims another town @SUPERDUCK
@Carrot Cake

[Gyrlander]

-unvote

2 characters needed.

[Gyrlander]

I swear, if both of you are town and 1 is just CC the other I'll cry.

[Unknown1234]

WTF? Explain this. You claimed Sheriff, he CC'd why would you need to state you don't believe him? If you know you're town he cant be anything other...so why would you need to state you don't believe him? The way this is phrased is almost like you don't know if he's scum but you don't believe his reasons for not being scum. But if you're our sheriff, he HASt to be scum....

It was in response to the last paragraph where he was saying that he is interested in looking at Firebringer (implying that they weren't a team).

[BananaCucho]

I keep going over different scenarios in my head but they all come back to the same conclusion that lynching now is the best move.

So here's what I want from Unknown and yzb. Write me a song about me. Whoever's is better, I'll join you in voting the other.

@Unknown1234
@yzb25

[Unknown1234]

@Unknown1234
@yzb25

Pass.

[PowersThatBe]

Yeah, yzb is definitely trying to use the emotional appeal like Arrow did.

-vote yzb25

@Gyrlander this is best move.

@Firebringer did you remember your hammer?

[Gyrlander]

Yeah, yzb is definitely trying to use the emotional appeal like Arrow did.

-vote yzb25

@Gyrlander this is best move.

@Firebringer did you remember your hammer?

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I can't stop remembering the game where Banana said that I had no balls and such making me mislynch. But, I'm still not sure.

[PowersThatBe]

@BananaCucho

Poem for you

Roses are red.
violets are blue.
No one really like you.
But between these two
You only have one choice.
Use your voice.
So vote the one who is scum.
If we're wrong, we'll get the other bum.
The choice is ours.
Don't waste anymore hours.
Yzb has terrible grammer.
SO PLEASE GIVE HIM THE HAMMER.

[SuperJack]

Meowth that's right.

[PowersThatBe]

@BananaCucho *edited version LOL*

Poem for you

Roses are red.
violets are blue.
No one really like you.
But between these two
You only have one choice.
So please Use your voice.
So vote the one who is scum.
If we're wrong, we'll get the other bum.
The choice is ours.
Don't waste anymore hours.
Yzb has terrible grammar.
SO PLEASE GIVE HIM THE HAMMER.

[BananaCucho]

Pass.

Welp he passed the reaction test.

Not 100% but still leaning yzb as scum

[BananaCucho]

Also I didn't wait for yzb because its NAI for him to feed my ego lol

[yzb25]

Sorry about leaking my toxic feefees. Thanks for the pep-talk SJ, I'll save the drama for the post-game. These are the 3 main reasons I think YOU, (yes, YOU) should scumread Unknown.

1) (IMPORTANT) This is probably the most powerful reason. Imagine I'm scum, and I had just guessed Unknown was about to claim sheriff, and reveal he's either found me or my scumbuddy - If I rush CC'd him, and it turned out he'd checked my pal instead, then boom I've just outed both of us and lost us the game. I took a massive risk of gamethrowing by rush CCing him if I'm scum, and simply guessing he checked me.

Unknown still hasn't elaborated on why he scumread me and checked me - it's as if he doesn't even have a good answer lol. So why, as scum, would I expect he checked me, rather than my scumbuddy? Like, I think it's pretty clear I was feeling cocky and in a solid townread position before the Unknown drama, with all my snark n shit.

2) Unknown's interactions with Mesk on day 1 were really dodgy. I know it's a long time ago but rack your brain for fuck's sake:

People are taking advantage of the Mesk train =(

It looks like he's white-knighting her, because this wouldn't have convinced any towns in the Mesk train to get off the Mesk train - After all, if you're town you see this and think "well I'm not - I actually scumread her!". It's a crappy way to defend your townreads, hence why it looks like he's picking up brownie points.

Here's another one:

I kinda like this format of having to wait until the end to get a vote through.

That being said, Mesk is obv town so don't lynch her plz and ty.

After I threw a tantrum about this, he conveniently switched position on Mesk later. When it Mesk seemed-to-try-to-hammer, he started scumreading her, even though it was pretty clear she probably had a "zero fucks given approach" to the hammer:

FYI, I hope Mesk didn't try to Quick hammer there.

Did nobody else find Mesk's vote suspicious TBH? And that's coming from me.

Scumreading her for this was weird because he knows Mesk is impulsive and care-free... like a beautiful dove... Okay I'm getting distracted. The point is, even though Firebringer pointed out Mesk was probably in 0-fucks-given-mode:

I don't think it really means anything.
I honestly was in same boat as you for a minute like "Did you just try to hammer when you thought it was L-1?" but i literally don't think it means jack besides not giving a shit.

Unknown continued to scumread Mesk despite this. RIP. Coincidentally, this is why I scumread Unknown on d1:

Spoiler : Spoiler :

Post 113

What's the point of this comment? If you've got something against someone on the Mesk train, then just say it. This vague "attack-on-noone-in-particular" only throws shade on the Mesk train without making a real point. If a scum reads this comment they're just gonna be like "oh looks like people are suspicious of the Mesk train - I'll be more cautious about making my voting look legit" - you're just giving the scum advice LOL.

I dunno, you seem to actually townread Mesk but this looks like a really indirect, round-about way of attacking the Mesk train that won't convince anyone in particular. If a town on the train reads this they're just gonna think "Well I still scumread her - I'm definitely not taking advantage". This just looks like white-knighting in case Mesk dies tbh.

Maybe you were trying to see if anyone will pussy out of the train with this really vague remark... Meh...

3) As I discussed with PTB, the way he's handled this sheriff claim (focused on dangling the fact he's gonna reveal and he's got information, and then revealing way too early) seems more geared towards looking townlike than actually getting info.

It doesn't make sense to crumb the fact you've got results so obviously, as that alerts scums to what you're doing, when you're trying to get natural responses from scums (if you're planning to hide / hold off your result).

P.S. Let it be known my desperation is NAI.

[yzb25]

Also I didn't wait for yzb because its NAI for him to feed my ego lol

Wow. I was about to start on a song. Fuck you, I'm doing it anyway.

Banana, banana, banana boo
You better not be a silly poo
Because if you mislynch me now
I'll shit on your face.

[yzb25]

Wow. I was about to start on a song. Fuck you, I'm doing it anyway.

Banana, banana, banana boo
You better not be a silly poo
Because if you mislynch me now
I'll shit on your face.

You're supposed to read it from a post-modernist perspective, btw.

[BananaCucho]

Omg that long yzb post felt extremely townie