S-FM 218: Mafia Wars III

[deathworlds]

myslynch us, kill double kindappers, argue kidnapper is mole who jailed fire

there were some ideas but most of them were stretched to the point hwere it seems unlikely. my issue is that the game did get called prematurly and not a proper "ok all sucms give up"

It'll basically be one Serial Killer vs a mob of TPRs after yuki is lynched/kidnapped. This aint the mod.

[DarknessB]

I'd rather mill myself and uninstall than play this game again

I suggest using Coldlight Oracle and Gang Up.

[Firebringer]

I agree with you that he shouldn't have done that

But no lol there was no path to victory here. That's why I said it shouldn't be called cancelled. Town won this game, should be laddered, etc

I agree with banana here.
This game was a town win no matter how you look at it.
If you want to put it in the ladder as completed thats fine.

Was it balanced? Hell No, Should it have been approved with this role list? No
But our ladder has had alot of fucking unbalanced games so honestly doesn't matter.

[ika]

Listen Ika, you don't know what your talking about half the time here.

I didn't game throw because the scum had no chance in this game anymore. So the game should have ended. Your point about it being gamethrowing is invalid.

I didn't grief because that implies i have a history of ruining games. That is invalid.

I am not here to argue that what I did was acceptable.

I came here to tell you why I did it.
Take it or leave it, but don't tell me that my opinions and reasons are invalid because "I signed up for a game", as if its my duty to play a fucked up game.

Host trolled me. I decided to give it back.
Was I justified?
Nope.

Neither was he.

Crime: Griefing
Griefing is trolling to the point of the game being ruined.

this is what you ddi fire, your point about it unwinnable is invaild

you could of also replaced out or not signed up. when you sign you are obligated to play no matter how bad

[Sino]

I suggest using Coldlight Oracle and Gang Up.

You don't mill yourself by using gang up

Go for the good old classics instead : 200px-Nat_Pagle_HS.jpg

[ika]

It'll basically be one Serial Killer vs a mob of TPRs after yuki is lynched/kidnapped. This aint the mod.

doesnt change anything, i mean we can run imballanced games on here if we like for tollolol

aruign its nto the mod does not chagne what happened nor ivaildates it

[Calix]

I agree with banana here.
This game was a town win no matter how you look at it.
If you want to put it in the ladder as completed thats fine.

Was it balanced and never should have been approved in first place? Hell no.
But our ladder has had alot of fucking unbalanced games so honestly doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter.

Mafia Wars II was unbalanced as fuck. People were angry for multiple reasons.

Did that stop anyone from signing up for this game? No.

People are going to play it no matter how town-sided it is.

[BananaCucho]

Listen Ika, you don't know what your talking about half the time here.

I didn't game throw because the scum had no chance in this game anymore. So the game should have ended. Your point about it being gamethrowing is invalid.

I didn't grief because that implies i have a history of ruining games. That is invalid.

I am not here to argue that what I did was acceptable.

I came here to tell you why I did it.
Take it or leave it, but don't tell me that my opinions and reasons are invalid because "I signed up for a game", as if its my duty to play a fucked up game.

Host trolled me. I decided to give it back.
Was I justified?
Nope.

Neither was he.

Serious note and constructive criticism:

@MattZed could take an few notes on game balance. This is not the first time that completely unbalanced games have come out of his shop (the FM having sleep walking citizens that could have run into vet for example). Like this game was stupid town heavy especially with 2 town kidnappers. I thought one of them for sure should have been scum - except not cause, its a MattZed game.

Maybe @Cryptonic or @Orpz can help you with picking roles for your setup? The setups themselves can work but the roles you pick make them broken.

[Firebringer]

Crime: Griefing
Griefing is trolling to the point of the game being ruined.

this is what you ddi fire, your point about it unwinnable is invaild

In the sc2 mod we only take griefing as a repeatable offense over a time frame.
I don't consider my actions here griefing in anyway.

I wasn't trolling.
Trolling implies i was out to ruin everyones time.
I was out to ruin only MattZed.

[BananaCucho]

I suggest using Coldlight Oracle and Gang Up.

Gang up is for milling your opponent lol

[Calix]

The argument about FB's game-throwing is just distracting from the balance issues which need to be addressed to make this game enjoyable to play.

[deathworlds]

The argument about FB's game-throwing is just distracting from the balance issues which need to be addressed to make this game enjoyable to play.

^^

[Firebringer]

Doesn't matter.

Mafia Wars II was unbalanced as fuck. People were angry for multiple reasons.

Did that stop anyone from signing up for this game? No.

People are going to play it no matter how town-sided it is.

I think I complained about that game role list post game too.
I have the worst amnesia ever.

[ika]

The argument about FB's game-throwing is just distracting from the balance issues which need to be addressed to make this game enjoyable to play.

frozen has said some stuff in the setup thread and ballance should eb brought there if tits gonna eb reran IMO

[Unknown1234]

The ladder isn't even going on what r u people saying?

[Firebringer]

I mean the only way to truly fix a mattzed game I think is to have someone always co-mod the game with him and they have to preapprove the role list before it goes out

[BananaCucho]

This game should have spawned 1 TPR with GF and Consig

And the rest be tailors, janitors, drug dealers (citizens)

[BananaCucho]

I mean the only way to truly fix a mattzed game I think is to have someone always co-mod the game with him and they have to preapprove the role list before it goes out

@Orpz @Cryptonic

Pls

[Calix]

It's important to discuss it here too where all the players are.

I don't think that the Kidnappers were THAT overpowered. No Lynching is very rare.

It was just that the D1 No Lynch turned out to be fatal for the scum due to the town circle that formed and the resulting 2 KPN that the town had.

[Okabe]

You guys keep saying how town is pratically guaranteed to win this,
but me Sen and Yuki were 1 day away from winning when we literally killed no one pre-slip.

[Calix]

You guys keep saying how town is pratically guaranteed to win this,
but me Sen and Yuki were 1 day away from winning when we literally killed no one pre-slip.

No you weren't. You guys couldn't win together and you only had two dead townies at that point iirc.

[Sino]

You guys keep saying how town is pratically guaranteed to win this,
but me Sen and Yuki were 1 day away from winning when we literally killed no one pre-slip.

I doubt the setup was exactly the same at that time though.

What were the differences ?

[deathworlds]

@Orpz @Cryptonic

Pls

I EXIST

[Firebringer]

@deathworlds pls make sure mattzed has someone to look over role list before game starts.

[BananaCucho]

It's important to discuss it here too where all the players are.

I don't think that the Kidnappers were THAT overpowered. No Lynching is very rare.

It was just that the D1 No Lynch turned out to be fatal for the scum due to the town circle that formed and the resulting 2 KPN that the town had.

Yeah it makes no sense to lynch when you can take down 2 scums with double kidnapper

Dat almost turbo lynch tho...

Tbh I was playing heroes with ika and dw AND DARKNESS AND UNKNOWN at the time of the almost turbo lynch and I looked at my phone and saw we were L-2 and just didn't care to come claim. I kinda hoped it would have happened and then town lost so they could learn a lesson in not doing that.

[BananaCucho]

I EXIST

@Unknown1234

Pls

[Firebringer]

It's important to discuss it here too where all the players are.

I don't think that the Kidnappers were THAT overpowered. No Lynching is very rare.

It was just that the D1 No Lynch turned out to be fatal for the scum due to the town circle that formed and the resulting 2 KPN that the town had.

i mean the game is unlikely to have lynches because two town are directly opposing doing lynches because of there role.....

[Gyrlander]

Yeah it makes no sense to lynch when you can take down 2 scums with double kidnapper

Dat almost turbo lynch tho...

Tbh I was playing heroes with ika and dw AND DARKNESS AND UNKNOWN at the time of the almost turbo lynch and I looked at my phone and saw we were L-2 and just didn't care to come claim. I kinda hoped it would have happened and then town lost so they could learn a lesson in not doing that.

You guys should come Over to Europe.

[Calix]

i mean the game is unlikely to have lynches because two town are directly opposing doing lynches because of there role.....

2/13 players is not that much. Cancer was at L-1 so it wasn't like the Kidnappers were a major influence here.

In this setup, the scum essentially HAVE to push for a lynch every single day because their aim is to weaken the town and their enemies as soon as possible. Kidnapper is a weak scum role so they have to limit the influence of any town-aligned ones.

It actually makes more sense for town to deliberately No Lynch on Day 1 in the case that they have a Kidnapper.

[ika]

2/13 players is not that much. Cancer was at L-1 so it wasn't like the Kidnappers were a major influence here.

In this setup, the scum essentially HAVE to push for a lynch every single day because their aim is to weaken the town and their enemies as soon as possible. Kidnapper is a weak scum role so they have to limit the influence of any town-aligned ones.

It actually makes more sense for town to deliberately No Lynch on Day 1 in the case that they have a Kidnapper.

then any setup that has a potential to have a jailing role should no lynch day 1 each time? cus thats what i am understadning now

[SilverWolf]

My problem is, it's not up to FB to decide the game is over. He took that upon himself to decide and that's what ticked me off. That said, I agree it was Town sided and needs to be balanced better in the future.

[Sino]

2/13 players is not that much. Cancer was at L-1 so it wasn't like the Kidnappers were a major influence here.

In this setup, the scum essentially HAVE to push for a lynch every single day because their aim is to weaken the town and their enemies as soon as possible. Kidnapper is a weak scum role so they have to limit the influence of any town-aligned ones.

It actually makes more sense for town to deliberately No Lynch on Day 1 in the case that they have a Kidnapper.

Also the fact that both the kidnappers got the GF didn't help scum, knowing from a confirmed townie there are 2 kidnappers got the entire town to rely on them.

[BananaCucho]

2/13 players is not that much. Cancer was at L-1 so it wasn't like the Kidnappers were a major influence here.

In this setup, the scum essentially HAVE to push for a lynch every single day because their aim is to weaken the town and their enemies as soon as possible. Kidnapper is a weak scum role so they have to limit the influence of any town-aligned ones.

It actually makes more sense for town to deliberately No Lynch on Day 1 in the case that they have a Kidnapper.

2 kidnappers

On top of 2 underbosses and an agent

On top of GF/Consig

That's 7 TPRs spawning vs 3 spawned scum on two different teams. One nut hangs decidedly lower than the other.

[Calix]

then any setup that has a potential to have a jailing role should no lynch day 1 each time? cus thats what i am understadning now

In this specific setup, with a host who gives zero fucks about balance, it is a possible strategy.

It is not something that people have to follow.

Nowhere did I say that my theory applies to all setups with Jailors.

[deathworlds]

2 kidnappers

On top of 2 underbosses and an agent

On top of GF/Condit

That's 7 TPRs spawning vs 3 spawned scum on two different teams. One nut hangs decidedly lower than the other.

I've discussed this but no one addressed it.

[Firebringer]

My problem is, it's not up to FB to decide the game is over. He took that upon himself to decide and that's what ticked me off. That said, I agree it was Town sided and needs to be balanced better in the future.

I am the hero nobody asked for.

If it makes you feel any better, I wasn't trying to ruin your game and I am sorry if you felt it was ruined.

[Calix]

2 kidnappers

On top of 2 underbosses and an agent

On top of GF/Consig

That's 7 TPRs spawning vs 3 spawned scum on two different teams. One nut hangs decidedly lower than the other.

Okay.

I was telling FB that 2 Kidnappers aren't a major influence on wherever town lynched or not.

I swear that people are not reading what I am writing here.

[Sino]

Pretty sure if RLVG hadn't been double kidnapped like this, the outcome would've changed a lot.

[BananaCucho]

I've discussed this but no one addressed it.

Sorry man it got mixed in with the sudden rush of posts that came along

If you could discuss this further in your trio we would appreciate it. Cause this happens a lot in MZs setups. Again this is constructive criticism but he never responds to any criticism of his games, not publicly usually.

[BananaCucho]

Okay.

I was telling FB that 2 Kidnappers aren't a major influence on wherever town lynched or not.

I swear that people are not reading what I am writing here.

But if the rat is chased by the cat does that make it a mole?

[BananaCucho]

Woof

I read Calixs response like a dog. Not a human being

Woof 🐕

[Firebringer]

He's been banned as keeper before

Yeah, staff have only joke banned me before though.

[BananaCucho]

and I'm not mad at anyone, nor I'm sorry for anything.

[ika]

In this specific setup, with a host who gives zero fucks about balance, it is a possible strategy.

It is not something that people have to follow.

Nowhere did I say that my theory applies to all setups with Jailors.

if a host doesn tgive a fuck and is know to do that then maybe

but i think for you to argue it moreso is that it needs to be applied in all cases. didnt the last game have 0 kidnappers or something?

i mena if a host doesnt give a fuck then it should be to FM staff to correct it and if it continues the game wont have signs to play

[Firebringer]

and I'm not mad at anyone, nor I'm sorry for anything.

You were the good part of your archon, i was shocked.
I was getting so pissed off at superjack

[DarknessB]

and I'm not mad at anyone, nor I'm sorry for anything.

Dino, stop it -- you're making your thread about shitposting into a legit shit post.

[Firebringer]

if a host doesn tgive a fuck and is know to do that then maybe

but i think for you to argue it moreso is that it needs to be applied in all cases. didnt the last game have 0 kidnappers or something?

i mena if a host doesnt give a fuck then it should be to FM staff to correct it and if it continues the game wont have signs to play

i mean should we open up mattzeds portfolio for examination?
I don't really want to get him fired.

[ika]

i mean should we open up mattzeds portfolio for examination?
I don't really want to get him fired.

if anythign he should advertise it as bastard/potential to eb imballanced. i do think thoguh due to 2 previous game of it that it should show the standard of what would of been happening

[DarknessB]

if anythign he should advertise it as bastard/potential to eb imballanced. i do think thoguh due to 2 previous game of it that it should show the standard of what would of been happening

I mean, to be fair, most of the people from this game had played in a previous MW iteration before. In other words, I dunno if you don't need the "you will get wet" warning on a water slide.

[SilverWolf]

I am the hero nobody asked for.

If it makes you feel any better, I wasn't trying to ruin your game and I am sorry if you felt it was ruined.

OK and I do understand your frustration now.