S-FM 207 Island Conflict

[MattZed]

So, how is is everyone? Anything fun I miss during the chat aside from people talking with our wonderful moderator?

[MattZed]

@Calix dear, would you like to get in here and play kingmaker with me? Ask anyone, I'm very pleasant to make these sorts of arrangements with.

[Eggy]

-vote kovath

[Eggy]

@Spruance @Simple Joy @ calix just vote for kovath. It is the only way that we can end the game to night. Do you guys really want to play multiple days stuck in a kingmaker situation?

[Eggy]

@Calix

[Eggy]

Please explain why kovath deserves to win over mattzed and myself mattzed allowed this game to continue by willingly replacing RLVG for us.

[Spruance]

Please explain why kovath deserves to win over mattzed and myself mattzed allowed this game to continue by willingly replacing RLVG for us.

If you want kovath to lose so badly we will lynch him on the condition that you don't kill tonight.

[Eggy]

If you want kovath to lose so badly we will lynch him on the condition that you don't kill tonight.

I will except that condition if you can fallow through and convince either simplejoy or calix to fallow you. There is honnestly no reason to let kovath win other than calix being

[Spruance]

alright

-vote Kovath

calix vote kovath since eggy promises mafia won't kill tonight.

[Eggy]

Mine and mattzeds votes are likely not going to move. Id like to win but kovath demise is more important to me than my victory.

[Eggy]

alright

-vote Kovath

calix vote kovath since eggy promises mafia won't kill tonight.

Calix wont beleive me but I actually wont break my word. I never have on a promise like this. I will give you all a fair chance and guarantee that I will not night kill. I will also convince my partner to do the same. If I break my word I will never show my face on this forum again.

[Eggy]

I just really dont want kovath to win and that is in all honnesty from the bottom of my heart.

[Kovath]

Calix wont beleive me but I actually wont break my word. I never have on a promise like this. I will give you all a fair chance and guarantee that I will not night kill. I will also convince my partner to do the same. If I break my word I will never show my face on this forum again.

You realize that is gamethrowing and will get you modkilled.

::

[Eggy]

You realize that is gamethrowing and will get you modkilled.

::

So be it. Atleast you will lose

[Eggy]

You just won politco also so there is literally no way in hell im letting you win

[Eggy]

I knew you were scum.. I wnted to lynch you but it was too late :/

[Kovath]

My point was that town cannot trust you to hold to your promise. Iced said: "All factions must play to their win conditions." (I don't even know why this needs to be said.)

If you enter the night 3v2, to NOT KILL would be deliberately against your win condition, and it will be gamethrowing which is a serious offense on this site.

Therefore, lynching me will either guarantee a town loss or you will be heavily punished for gamethrowing. A friendly warning, you can confirm this if you'd like.

[Kovath]

Let me also say this: After all the drama that has taken place this game, and after my short salt episode earlier, I've regressed to a state of apathy regarding the eventual result; no matter who wins and who loses, it doesn't particularly matter to me.

But what I take much more seriously is that the very intent and design of Mafia is being subverted. Mafia is a game of deception in which each faction attempts to fulfill their win condition and win the game. Yet in this game, players are deliberately taking actions that will cause their faction to lose, in order to prevent the possibility of another faction and player winning, rather than playing the game out as it was intended to be played. This defeats the very purpose of Mafia, which also revolves around the decisions that people make and how they interact with one another in the pursuit of these different win conditions.

You can accuse me of personal bias in this matter in regards to it affecting my own personal results; still, this is the second game so far in which someone has expressed the desire to potentially go against their own win condition (and thus gamethrow) for out of game reasons: That is, a nebulous ladder, a temporary internet accolade, that I personally care little about beyond what would lie behind it: that is, the games, satisfaction, and improvement from playing FM. There is no personal grudge or any real-life benefit at stake.

I think I can safely say that none of us want to play games in which factions will deliberately throw in order to prevent a player from winning. I (or any other 'ladder-leader') will be a handicap to whatever faction I or whoever roll as a member of, for reasons completely unrelated to play.

I am willing to remove myself from ladder consideration if that is what it will take to ensure a return to a regular standard of play.

This game is far from over, every faction still has a chance of winning and no faction's chances is (in my estimation) significantly higher than the other's. I am not pursuing this because I am confident I will win this game, because I am not; but because pursuing your win condition is how the game is meant to be played, and there are still more intrigues and decisions to be faced.



tldr; Play Mafia please.

[Eggy]

My point was that town cannot trust you to hold to your promise. Iced said: "All factions must play to their win conditions." (I don't even know why this needs to be said.)

If you enter the night 3v2, to NOT KILL would be deliberately against your win condition, and it will be gamethrowing which is a serious offense on this site.

Therefore, lynching me will either guarantee a town loss or you will be heavily punished for gamethrowing. A friendly warning, you can confirm this if you'd like.

I dont really care about game throwing. Id rather have a reputation as a trust worthy player who doesnt break his promise in these type of situations than as someone who just follows the rules to the point my word means nothing. Why would I care about gamethrowing? I am not about to be banned from this site so I really dont mind( even if I was wouldnt bother me that much) I wouldnt win this gane and put in jeopardy eveey other time I might be in a similar king maker situation. I have yo think about the long run. Also the host stated that if ne and my teamate decide to foreit we can. I really do not beleive that mattzed cares to much being as he was afks the majority of the game and was only a replacement I am confident that he will agree with me. There is literally no way you can win kovath. Concede please and save us all the time.

[Eggy]

Let me also say this: After all the drama that has taken place this game, and after my short salt episode earlier, I've regressed to a state of apathy regarding the eventual result; no matter who wins and who loses, it doesn't particularly matter to me.

But what I take much more seriously is that the very intent and design of Mafia is being subverted. Mafia is a game of deception in which each faction attempts to fulfill their win condition and win the game. Yet in this game, players are deliberately taking actions that will cause their faction to lose, in order to prevent the possibility of another faction and player winning, rather than playing the game out as it was intended to be played. This defeats the very purpose of Mafia, which also revolves around the decisions that people make and how they interact with one another in the pursuit of these different win conditions.

You can accuse me of personal bias in this matter in regards to it affecting my own personal results; still, this is the second game so far in which someone has expressed the desire to potentially go against their own win condition (and thus gamethrow) for out of game reasons: That is, a nebulous ladder, a temporary internet accolade, that I personally care little about beyond what would lie behind it: that is, the games, satisfaction, and improvement from playing FM. There is no personal grudge or any real-life benefit at stake.

I think I can safely say that none of us want to play games in which factions will deliberately throw in order to prevent a player from winning. I (or any other 'ladder-leader') will be a handicap to whatever faction I or whoever roll as a member of, for reasons completely unrelated to play.

I am willing to remove myself from ladder consideration if that is what it will take to ensure a return to a regular standard of play.

This game is far from over, every faction still has a chance of winning and no faction's chances is (in my estimation) significantly higher than the other's. I am not pursuing this because I am confident I will win this game, because I am not; but because pursuing your win condition is how the game is meant to be played, and there are still more intrigues and decisions to be faced.



tldr; Play Mafia please.

If each team tries to fullfill its wincon you will win in a tie. This is a kingmaker situation in every aspect. I have done the math. The only way town wins is if I allow them too, the only way you win is if town allows you to. A no lynch will only benefit youself. If you can honnestly take youself off the ladder maybe id consider it but honnestly I just dont like you and would still let town win.

[Kovath]

I dont really care about game throwing. Id rather have a reputation as a trust worthy player who doesnt break his promise in these type of situations than as someone who just follows the rules to the point my word means nothing. Why would I care about gamethrowing? I am not about to be banned from this site so I really dont mind( even if I was wouldnt bother me that much) I wouldnt win this gane and put in jeopardy eveey other time I might be in a similar king maker situation. I have yo think about the long run. Also the host stated that if ne and my teamate decide to foreit we can. I really do not beleive that mattzed cares to much being as he was afks the majority of the game and was only a replacement I am confident that he will agree with me. There is literally no way you can win kovath. Concede please and save us all the time.

Mafia is a game of deception. What takes place in the game stays in the game.

"Why would I care about gamethrowing?"

"Threatened, attempted, or faked gamethrows are prohibited and will result in force replace or modkill at the host's discretion."

Gamethrows are a big deal because they destroy the integrity of games. I didn't just warn the town, I'm also letting you know as a courtesy that even if you think "I am not about to be banned from this site", gamethrowing is a major offense. And you don't care about getting banned but you care about not letting me "win the ladder?" Something I've admitted to not caring about?

Like, come on. Why play Mafia if you're not trying to win the game? Your team's chance to win is just as high as mine.

[Eggy]

Let me also say this: After all the drama that has taken place this game, and after my short salt episode earlier, I've regressed to a state of apathy regarding the eventual result; no matter who wins and who loses, it doesn't particularly matter to me.

But what I take much more seriously is that the very intent and design of Mafia is being subverted. Mafia is a game of deception in which each faction attempts to fulfill their win condition and win the game. Yet in this game, players are deliberately taking actions that will cause their faction to lose, in order to prevent the possibility of another faction and player winning, rather than playing the game out as it was intended to be played. This defeats the very purpose of Mafia, which also revolves around the decisions that people make and how they interact with one another in the pursuit of these different win conditions.

You can accuse me of personal bias in this matter in regards to it affecting my own personal results; still, this is the second game so far in which someone has expressed the desire to potentially go against their own win condition (and thus gamethrow) for out of game reasons: That is, a nebulous ladder, a temporary internet accolade, that I personally care little about beyond what would lie behind it: that is, the games, satisfaction, and improvement from playing FM. There is no personal grudge or any real-life benefit at stake.

I think I can safely say that none of us want to play games in which factions will deliberately throw in order to prevent a player from winning. I (or any other 'ladder-leader') will be a handicap to whatever faction I or whoever roll as a member of, for reasons completely unrelated to play.

I am willing to remove myself from ladder consideration if that is what it will take to ensure a return to a regular standard of play.

This game is far from over, every faction still has a chance of winning and no faction's chances is (in my estimation) significantly higher than the other's. I am not pursuing this because I am confident I will win this game, because I am not; but because pursuing your win condition is how the game is meant to be played, and there are still more intrigues and decisions to be faced.



tldr; Play Mafia please.

There is literally no way town can win without me making a deal with them the fact that you try to pretend otherwise id very annoying.

[Eggy]

Mafia is a game of deception. What takes place in the game stays in the game.

"Why would I care about gamethrowing?"

"Threatened, attempted, or faked gamethrows are prohibited and will result in force replace or modkill at the host's discretion."

Gamethrows are a big deal because they destroy the integrity of games. I didn't just warn the town, I'm also letting you know as a courtesy that even if you think "I am not about to be banned from this site", gamethrowing is a major offense. And you don't care about getting banned but you care about not letting me "win the ladder?" Something I've admitted to not caring about?

Like, come on. Why play Mafia if you're not trying to win the game? Your team's chance to win is just as high as mine.

It really isnt if it goes into a no lynch situation it will end in you winning undeniably and will also take why longer to finish and start a next game. Id prefer to take whatever consequences I am given than allow that to happen. Please just stop being difficult town is winning this game. I would have conceded already if it wasnt for my partner.

[Kovath]

If each team tries to fullfill its wincon you will win in a tie. This is a kingmaker situation in every aspect. I have done the math. The only way town wins is if I allow them too, the only way you win is if town allows you to. A no lynch will only benefit youself. If you can honnestly take youself off the ladder maybe id consider it but honnestly I just dont like you and would still let town win.

Alright. (Just saying that although Calix said she would rather let me win than you, you could just kill her. Who knows what the remainder of the town thinks? You didn't even ask what they'd do in a kingmaker situation.)

I have no idea why you also have personal dislike of me as I've never been rude or impolite ever, I don't think even in a game situation.

Iced: If this is what's going on, there is nothing more to do. I was hoping the game would continue its natural course, but it's clear people don't want to see that happen. No need to worry yourself about extra days and nights, I guess.

[Eggy]

Conceding is not countened as gamethrowing btw.

[Kovath]

It really isnt if it goes into a no lynch situation it will end in you winning undeniably and will also take why longer to finish and start a next game. Id prefer to take whatever consequences I am given than allow that to happen. Please just stop being difficult town is winning this game. I would have conceded already if it wasnt for my partner.

You assume too many things. I did the same thing in World of Music.

You're admitting that you're gamethrowing again and again, and no I am not undeniably winning this game. I don't know why most of the people still alive today think the result of the game is over and done with when it's really not. I guess only I and Iced are probably aware.

I'm going to sleep. Hopefully Iced has some kind of resolution to this when I wake up.

[Eggy]

Alright. (Just saying that although Calix said she would rather let me win than you, you could just kill her. Who knows what the remainder of the town thinks? You didn't even ask what they'd do in a kingmaker situation.)

I have no idea why you also have personal dislike of me as I've never been rude or impolite ever, I don't think even in a game situation.

Iced: If this is what's going on, there is nothing more to do. I was hoping the game would continue its natural course, but it's clear people don't want to see that happen. No need to worry yourself about extra days and nights, I guess.

Just claim that you concede and it will all be over. I know what calix claimed and that is why I am not going to let either scenerio happen. We are both in the same boat. We are both going to lose. Besides the fact that you are top of the ladder I truely beleive in a situation like this there is no reason for mafia or neutral to win. It should go to the town be default since none of us played very well.

[Eggy]

You assume too many things. I did the same thing in World of Music.

You're admitting that you're gamethrowing again and again, and no I am not undeniably winning this game. I don't know why most of the people still alive today think the result of the game is over and done with when it's really not. I guess only I and Iced are probably aware.

I'm going to sleep. Hopefully Iced has some kind of resolution to this when I wake up.

Just PM him and tell him you concede. Unless I get lynched today there is no way im letting you win. Town deserves the win more than either of us do why can you just not accept that.

[Eggy]

There is no resolution that iced can reach in which you will win. Town should win this not matter what as I see. This is notbthe outcome that I wanted to have but if it is what has to happen so be it.

[Iced_Monopoly]

The topic of gamethrowing has already been discussed with all applicable parties, and they have been informed of what they can and cannot do in this kingmaker situation. Please refrain from further GT discussion in thread as it has already been handled, or will be handled privately. Any concerns or questions can be PM'd to me.

[Calix]

Hello MattZed.

[MattZed]

Hello MattZed.

If I said "please," would it get you to hammer Kovath so we can end this madness?

[Calix]

If I said "please," would it get you to hammer Kovath so we can end this madness?

Try and pretend that you have some dignity instead of kissing my arse, would ya?

I don't consider this a game anymore given what happened overnight.

[MattZed]

Try and pretend that you have some dignity instead of kissing my arse, would ya?

I don't consider this a game anymore given what happened overnight.

At least, unlike those other two scum, I have the respect to treat this like the kingmaker situation this is, and I know who the kingmaker is. I would figure that's worth at least some points.

[Calix]

At least, unlike those other two scum, I have the respect to treat this like the kingmaker situation this is, and I know who the kingmaker is. I would figure that's worth at least some points.

This game really is a mess...

Anything else you want to add? I don't see the point in dragging it out.

[Calix]

Just put me out of my misery like you morons tried to do Night 1.

[MattZed]

This game really is a mess...

Anything else you want to add? I don't see the point in dragging it out.

You know the numbers. You either make mafia king today and end this game right now, or you make tomorrow the day that decides it all. Lynching Kovath makes this nice and simple and lets us move on without Kovath getting a solo win and owning the ladder for a game where he admitted to be an SK on D3.

End this.

[MattZed]

Just put me out of my misery like you morons tried to do Night 1.

If I threaten to nightkill someone else and force you to play out another day of this, would you vote Kovath to speed things up?

[Calix]

You know the numbers. You either make mafia king today and end this game right now, or you make tomorrow the day that decides it all. Lynching Kovath makes this nice and simple and lets us move on without Kovath getting a solo win and owning the ladder for a game where he admitted to be an SK on D3.

End this.

The fact that you still care about your busywork with the ladder which you used to call Gyrloser a "good player" is...completely unsurprising.

Anyone else would have given it some serious reconsideration given all the useless animosity it causes.

-vote Kovath

[The Godfather]

Kovath has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


Kovath (4 [L-0]): Calix, Eggy, Spruance, MattZed

[Iced_Monopoly]

S-FM Island Conflict

Quick Links:
Setup Page
Day One
Night One
Day Two
Night Two
Day Three
GAME END


Kovath has been lynched, his role was Dark Sorcerer
As there are no possible roles remaining to counter the Expansionist night kill, @Eggy and @MattZed have WON


Roles - If the image doesnt load above

Mafia Chat
Elder Chat
Dead Chat

Host Notes
So first up, thanks to everyone for playing. Unfortunately today turned into quite a shit show, but eventually a conclusion was reached, as begrudging as it was to some if not most. Other than that though, things for the most part went quite well I think. We had some replacements that were under suspicion solely by being replacements because they held (scum) PR slots, however they were purely replaced due to inactivity/failing to meet quota.

I want to apologise to the neutral slot for the mix up in his ability. When the last minute addition of NI was made to the neut, I forgot to factor in that the dark sorcerer would need to be able to use his ability and NK in conjunction. Other than that, Ive learnt quite a bit about what to do/not to do, so its been a good experience, thanks for being a part of it!

[Calix]

-vote Nobody

MattZed, if you come in with some self-aggrandizing crap about how this game WASN'T a fucking mess, I swear to God.

[MattZed]

What a final day...

GG everyone, and a special thanks to Iced_Monopoly for hosting and dealing with the complications that arose in the last day.

[Calix]

@Kovath I hoped you've learned your lesson about why you always try to avoid kingmaker situations.

[Kovath]

@Kovath I hoped you've learned your lesson about why you always try to avoid kingmaker situations.

Yes thank you, next time I'm going to kill a scum and go into a 4v1v1 where I'm guaranteed a loss instead of a kingmaker where I'm guaranteed a loss because of my "ladder position," after I received the most difficult and underpowered role to win with.

[Kovath]

Nice job calling me a "fucking mouthbreather" for pursuing my own win condition instead of a guaranteed loss.

Also, it was still possible for Mafia and Neutral to win, as I showed Iced in my last will.

[Calix]

Yes thank you, next time I'm going to kill a scum and go into a 4v1v1 where I'm guaranteed a loss instead of a kingmaker where I'm guaranteed a loss because of my "ladder position," after I received the most difficult and underpowered role to win with.

4v1v1 isn't a guaranteed loss.

You just lynch the last Mafia, night-kill someone and mislynch one of the shitizens.

You do NOT willingly enter a kingmaker situation. Maybe it's because you don't play the mod and thus you have no idea what you did, but they're seriously not something that you actively want to be getting yourself into.

[Calix]

Furthermore, I had literally said "hey, let's give the Neutral a win" and you managed to talk yourself out of that because of your obsession with strategies over negotiating.

MVP play right there, mate.

[Kovath]

You know the numbers. You either make mafia king today and end this game right now, or you make tomorrow the day that decides it all. Lynching Kovath makes this nice and simple and lets us move on without Kovath getting a solo win and owning the ladder for a game where he admitted to be an SK on D3.

End this.

Am I going to deal with this every single game from now on until the ladder ends for something I don't even care particularly care about?

First Duck is telling me I'm the correct mechanical lynch in IM 2.0 because he rolled Town and the only way he can catch up on me is if I rolled scum and he lynches me. At least he had the courtesy to not lynch me from townreading me.

I don't even give a shit about winning, I can't even play a decent game and every game I do, I'll cripple my own faction since ladder-hunters are going to lynch or kill me.

[Kovath]

Furthermore, I had literally said "hey, let's give the Neutral a win" and you managed to talk yourself out of that because of your obsession with strategies over negotiating.

MVP play right there, mate.

No, I talked myself out of it because Eggy threatened to throw in the night so either way I was losing.

And no, I'm not going to be disingenuous and falsely sweet in the thread either. You make king who you make king, maybe negotiating actually matters to you but I would just consider it sucking up.