S-FM Turnabout Mafia

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Magoroth

I can perfectly understand why one would have Mike so high in their Lynch list, he's highly defensive and OMGUSy.

If anything, Mike makes more appeals to emotion than anyone else has this entire game. @Kenny you're misrepresenting the Voss-Kenny argument completely.

Did you mess up names there?
Mike uses emotions, and because of that I lied about Voss and my previous own argument with Voss which wasn't about Mike at all? What?

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 03:10 AM

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

That's straight up a lie... My list hasn't changed but I'm restating it.

Spoiler : cvote :

What the fuck I provided a quote and explained it. That's not a fucking lie.

**Light_Yagami** · November 19th, 2018, 05:59 AM

I Wont Be Able To Make It Back On Before End OF Day.. My Votes Are Now..

Spoiler : cvote :

Ganelon · November 19th, 2018, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny

Did you mess up names there?
Mike uses emotions, and because of that I lied about Voss and my previous own argument with Voss which wasn't about Mike at all? What?

Voss-Mike argument is what I meant.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

OH yea I wanted to say that... Since neutrals are hiding, we can lynch our neutral reads if we don't know about scum reads if we ever lynch a town. This way we don't end up having two mislynches in a row and we reset the two-in-a-row counter.

Remember this if I get lynched.

That is smart That is pro town. But what if for example you lych me IE Green and you lych Blink who I think is nuet or red and he flips green Town loses so We need to be smart not stupid. 2 mislynch we lose remember that also.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Alright now onto this:

I'm taking a very Lenneth approach to the lynch this game because it seems like it would be particularly relevant here since there are technically two phases to the lynch. The voting phase and the trial in itself. What I mean by this is that we have an extra 48(???) hours during a trial to gain information surrounding a player. It doesn't really need to be a lynch, we just get so much information from trials in general because of the fact that two players are removed from the voting pool, changing the majority and outcome. So it makes sense to vote someone up with a lot of interaction with multiple different players. Here's 2 reasons why Damus is one of the best people to trial with this thought process (Even acknowledging that I'm doing a full 180 with my read on him as he was at the bottom of my list earlier today lol)

1. No meta.
The last game I remember Damus playing was actually the one running when I signed for my first S-FM way back when I was a wee pup. It's been fucking forever. Slaol, Voss and maybe me are the only people that remember Damus's meta, and I'm completely disregarding it since, like I said, it's been fucking forever. Damus is the best way to see what will happen if we place a player of whatever alignment he turns out to be on the stand because there is no meta argument toward him. This, in my opinion, is what makes me want to not put up a player like blink, MM or dist. Very distinct meta per alignment (even if y'all dont seem to realize blink has different metas, but ill save that for a game that i think will be relevant metawise). Yagami is also a good trial pick for this reason but really if you don't think he's exe at this point I dunno what to say.

2. Low ranking
This may seem counter-intuitive but let me put it this way. Damus has been middle to low ranking on the list the entire time but his playstyle has shifted dramatically from passive to aggressive, and nobody seems to have commented on it. This makes me think that there's something weird happening. I highly doubt we'd be able to nab a scum with this type of lynch, where scum can dance around in the lower middle list by manipulating the nulls in their vote list to put each other lower. This is exactly where Damus is right now.

Other players that follow this pattern include MM, Kenny and Mag. I'd be okay with any of them being our trial today, and I'd also be okay with Light_Yagami because he's neutral for like the 5th time.

Putting some one on trial is just as important also. Because 2 Innos on red scum town loses. dont forget about that.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Well then encourage people to get Damus! Let's get this party started!

Spoiler : cvote :

there

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny

Good with Mike and blink lynches, Voss also had them as scumread for a while.In response to Mike's push against him he just tried dodging, and then named 7 people to shift the pressure to. Several of them being townreads for him.Literally admits there that it looks like he's pushing and he doesn't want to be responsible for a lynch. Voss is expecting Mike to flip town if Mike were to get lynched.And here Voss is trying to appeal to emotions. That's a scumtell.

This is is where I became number 1 scum read was when I pushed Voss. Kenny has a point. but this post will prob get me scum read again so wtf why not it is true but whatever Mike says is scum. My question Is town allowed to push people sitting so high and mighty? If we dont push everyone we lose gives a scum places to hide. But let me guess NO GAMES HAVE SCUM HIDDING AS CONFIRMED TOWN ????

OMG Mike is scum that is a scummy thing to say Vote MIKE.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

WHERE. YOU LIAR. WHERE WHERE WHERE. ARE YOU fucking KIDDING ME??

I read Kenny as EXE Nuet his only target seems to be Voss. dons not seem to be pushing him just trying to EXE him.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

Good with Mike and blink lynches, Voss also had them as scumread for a while.
Yes, I own up to this. I'm good with their vote outs. You haven't demonstrated why I'm scum for doing this.

In response to Mike's push against him he just tried dodging, and then named 7 people to shift the pressure to. Literally admits there that it looks like he's pushing and he doesn't want to be responsible for a lynch. Voss is expecting Mike to flip town if Mike were to get lynched.
Yeah, i got confused on the pressure he was saying I was applying. I'm applying vocal pressure, but my votes don't back it up.

Several of them being townreads for him.
Not sure how that's scummy. I'm stating facts regardless of if they're scum or town. If I had been selective, you might have called me out as 'protecting my scum buddies'. Being objective and letting facts speak for themselves is better. You, however, are just talking through your ass.

And here Voss is trying to appeal to emotions. That's a scumtell.
Check any of my MU games, I do this as town and scum. I was clarifying that I didn't scum read him for being afk, and it appeared that I was implying his lurkingness meant he was scum. Which it doesnt. I reject this logic completely.

LIER LIER LIER I NEVER DOGED not one you where the one getting upset when I pushed you. all from because I SAID what Blink made sense. that is what started it all. I answered your questions I never dozed a single one Why because I did not have anything to hide so dont LIE and say that. you are the one who went bananas on me ALL FOR ME saying I agree with a post Blink made. and then that is when I became SCUM NUMBER 1. Lets get the facts strait.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

For everyone interested, it's likely that Blink will be prosecuting Mike, and StealthBomber, Number2, or Magoroth will defending Mike. Of course neutral shenanigans could mess this up.

Are you hinting you are the uni bomber and going to blow my ass up? if so IF i am on trial please do that way town will see i am Green but town will not lose a guilty vote.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

Im awake! I will sheep slaol for now.

if i end up being the defender or prosecutor then i will do everything in my power to see my role fulfilled

Spoiler : cvote :

HE IS ALIVE

Ganelon · November 19th, 2018, 07:45 AM

Idk if my vote is showing it, but I believe Mike to be town.

Stay tuned for further updates.

**AIVION** · November 19th, 2018, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

im guessing this means that the sabotage can't be used if the guilty defendant is the prosecutor or defense attorney?

No, if the Guilty Defendant Is the defendant, the Corrupt Attorney can't use his influence. Yea, I need to change the wording on that xD

**Damus_Graves** · November 19th, 2018, 08:21 AM

Spoiler : Numbertwo :

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

im guessing this means that the sabotage can't be used if the guilty defendant is the prosecutor or defense attorney?

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

anyway, i noticed that one of the mafia got an ability that decides the outcome of the trial.
Maybe that's a reason to not discuss what we are voting on in the jury chat. To try and make the mafia waste their ability when the outcome would have been the same.

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

i guess we are no longer friends then.

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

i'll make a video about reaction to your reaction.

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

Im awake! I will sheep slaol for now.

if i end up being the defender or prosecutor then i will do everything in my power to see my role fulfilled

Spoiler : cvote :

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

i guess that should make him into the prosecutor tonight?

Originally Posted by Numbertwo

Spoiler : cvote :

Numbertwo has not made any impact on the day at any point in time. Most of the other players havent had him high up on the radar. He has also been given a GIANT amount of time to do ANYTHING.
No impactful questions, no detailed thoughts. Opting into the sheep meta, and having a few questionable posts when considering word choices.
For example:
When he spoke about being a defender or a prosecutor he stated:
" if i end up being the defender or prosecutor then i will do everything in my power to see my role fulfilled "

See my ROLE fulfilled. Please note the word role in this sentence, where as the structure of said sentence is meant to convey a potential alignment. This sentence is talking about the trial of a selected player and the implication that Numbertwo is going to be on the bracket for defender/prosecutor. Firstly; why would one make an assumption that they are going to be on the floor during the trial when the trialee is selected. Being a prosecutor i can understand, a prosecutor is randomly selected from people who voted for the target.
But a DEFENDER is selected from people who didnt vote/abstained. As you can see from the quotes above: numbertwo has included EVERYONE in his votes.
According to my understanding of the trial mechanics Numbertwo has no possibility to be a defender. Thus he shouldnt be assuming he can be a defender on the trial in the first place. This could very well be a minor scum slip, when paired with the sheep meta and lurking mentality; there is a strong enough case to present Numbertwo as a valid trial target.

According to his recent list he believes the top scum are

Voss,blinkskater,LightYagami

These are three players who are not even in the top tier discussions for who to FOS, by majority of the players in this game. It is reasonably suspicious of Numbertwo to be voting these select players so highly. thoughts?

Spoiler : StealthBomber :

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

wtf @Voss

MM moved blink up one spot in his cvote and blink went up 3 spots in the consensus

something seems wrong with your math

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

1. Mike
2. blinkskater
3. Stealthbomber16
4. DamusGraves
5. LightYagami
6. Gyrlander
7. MarshmallowMarshall
8. Numbertwo
9. Kenny
10. Voss
11. Magoroth
12. Distorted

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Excellent. I'm burnt out. Bye for now. May or may not return in the next 10 hours. Leaning toward not.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

This makes the rankings

1. Mike
2. Stealthbomber16
3. DamusGraves
4. LightYagami
5. blinkskater
6. Gyrlander
7. MarshmallowMarshall
8. Numbertwo
9. Kenny
10. Voss
11. Magoroth
12. Distorted

And for reference, here are all of the votes.

Spoiler : Mike :

Spoiler : Me :

Spoiler : Damus :

Spoiler : Yagami :

Spoiler : blink :

Spoiler : Gyr :

Spoiler : MM :

Spoiler : #2 :

Spoiler : Kenny :

(Why is Kenny so low?)

Spoiler : Mag :

Spoiler : Distorted :

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Yours was significantly more drastic. The way I see it you fell bait to a gambit from a player who literally cant vote. I didn't like that.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

I'd have to go back and check but there was a bit where you were being pressured by Slaol and the tone and content of your posts were dramatically different IMO. Magoroth is in a similar boat but I'm actually less sure on that one, which is why he's lower than you.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

You each had your own tone shifts during the day with the exception of Kenny who I literally don't even remember making a post.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

Yknow I'd also probably not be a bad trial either following my own logic but I'd prefer not to be if it comes down to it.

Stealthbomber is also lacking in impactful posts. Historically the scum players are the one more often likely to post "recaps and a summery of the votes of other players. This tactic was employed to give the illusion of contribution. This illusion allowed scum to "hide in plain sight." Stealthbomber has also had a large amount of time to make impactful posts in the day chat. In addition to the lack of real content a vast majority of Stealthbombers posts are made in agreement of what other players have already stated. An echo of agreement in the majority of posts made by a player is historically a scum tell. There is a passive voice in Stealthbombers posts primarily because he does not follow through with whatever FOS he has made and his own questioning, when actually posted, is flat. His biggest impact in the game was a 10 minute hatefest against blinkskater which offered no concrete FOS from either player. (They ended up accusing the other person of being #1 scum..)
His statement of
"Yknow I'd also probably not be a bad trial either following my own logic but I'd prefer not to be if it comes down to it. "

Is also questionable. Historically speaking scum are more likely to backtrack on themselves with similar statements such as the one above.

Spoiler : kenny :

Originally Posted by Kenny

Did you mess up names there?
Mike uses emotions, and because of that I lied about Voss and my previous own argument with Voss which wasn't about Mike at all? What?

Originally Posted by Kenny

Is green supposed to mean townread for you?

Originally Posted by Kenny

I won't look for it either. Whether you say you want Gyr gone or you scumread Gyrlander doesn't matter in this case.

Originally Posted by Kenny

Good with Mike and blink lynches, Voss also had them as scumread for a while.In response to Mike's push against him he just tried dodging, and then named 7 people to shift the pressure to. Several of them being townreads for him.Literally admits there that it looks like he's pushing and he doesn't want to be responsible for a lynch. Voss is expecting Mike to flip town if Mike were to get lynched.And here Voss is trying to appeal to emotions. That's a scumtell.

Originally Posted by Kenny

We aren't close to EoD yet. Why are you already adjusting your votes so heavily according to the mayor's opinion?

I myself would at least only do that when we reach the phase for that, just like how it's usually done in games with regular voting as well. The mayor doesn't have investigative powers and it's in the town's interest to push reads, instead of to sheep one player.

Kenny has impactful posts in the day chat, however there is a hyper focus on Voss and Gyrlander that doesnt make 100% of sense. There is also an inconsistency of his posts that demands an explanation. A couple of the posts in kennys hand state that Voss is emotionally appealing to the town for doesnt add up. Voss hasnt been emotionally appealing and Kenny straight up misinformed town on a reaction in the above quotes. There is no commitment in the above posts to an idea. He argues with Voss and then later agrees with Voss without some kind of resolution to the previous argument. There is a stretch read on Mike and Voss interactions when he states

"Voss is expecting Mike to flip town if Mike were to get lynched.And here Voss is trying to appeal to emotions. That's a scumtell."

Spoiler : cvote :

**Damus_Graves** · November 19th, 2018, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

HE IS ALIVE

Originally Posted by Magoroth

Idk if my vote is showing it, but I believe Mike to be town.

Stay tuned for further updates.

Id like to know what your responses are to what i've just posted.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Spoiler : Numbertwo :

Spoiler : StealthBomber :

Spoiler : kenny :

Spoiler : cvote :

Valid Points. I am waiting to hear from Sloal at this point. and see what he has to say. He is the only one we know is not have any hidden agenda. At this point I truly dont know who to trust and who not to.

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Putting some one on trial is just as important also. Because 2 Innos on red scum town loses. dont forget about that.

fluff

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Are you hinting you are the uni bomber and going to blow my ass up? if so IF i am on trial please do that way town will see i am Green but town will not lose a guilty vote.

yeah! you're RIGHT! i AM the bomber.

Spoiler : wait for it :

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

LIER LIER LIER I NEVER DOGED not one you where the one getting upset when I pushed you. all from because I SAID what Blink made sense. that is what started it all. I answered your questions I never dozed a single one Why because I did not have anything to hide so dont LIE and say that. you are the one who went bananas on me ALL FOR ME saying I agree with a post Blink made. and then that is when I became SCUM NUMBER 1. Lets get the facts strait.

liar? where am I lying??

**Damus_Graves** · November 19th, 2018, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

yeah! you're RIGHT! i AM the bomber.

Spoiler : wait for it :

Id like to ask you for your thoughts on my recent post?

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

fluff

My question is what is your hard-on for me? You been targteing me hard core. WHY?????? Are you Red scum trying to lych me ( dont make sense Red would not want me lyched the know Everyone suspect me dont add up ) so no i dont think you are Red. EXE maybe I dont know. But my question is why do you keep over and over trying to get people to put my on the top??? Are you the Bomber and want the chance to blow me up??? I dont know so @Voss why are you none stop targeting me are you trying to Keep town distracted. I can assure you I am green as can be. I am to the point I say screw It everyone put me as Number one and Lych me so you can finally see me flip green because the talk all about me is making more harm for town than any good. Then you all can finally find the true RED

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Id like to ask you for your thoughts on my recent post?

oh I thought those messsages were for specific people.

i don't have much time as i gotta go to work, but i'll read and just not respond w/ much.

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 08:57 AM

Yes Number2 is useless and deserves to die, and if I wasn’t giving slaol part of my votes, I’d place number2 above you

I thought the same too about Stealthbomber, I’m just easily goaded into thinking someone’s town because they say I’m ‘experienced’ and ‘good’ which I laugh at. Actually, I’m trying to remember if this is different than his town play I played with him a while back, and it might not actually be.

I want Kenny DEAD. And so does Slaol, so I think he deserves to be on trial.

I think you should swap number2 and Kenny honestly.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

liar? where am I lying??

Originally Posted by blinkskater

Tbh i randomly put you somewhere higher, i felt the color in the place you were on the list represented you perfectly at the moment. I also think you want someone to claim neutral so you can CC them. Then get them lynched. And tell us all it was part of your plan as a townie because you knew a scum or actual evil neutral would claim. Youd get lots of towncred as a scum for that move.

Originally Posted by Mike

Makes a valid Point.

Originally Posted by Voss

So you're saying, that following my plan... red scum or evil neut gets eliminated from the game, and that's.... bad??? Bussing a teammate only gets you so far, and if I(or anyone) does it successfully enough, they deserve the win.

So ball's back in your court. Why does following my plan, which got a scum lynched in your hypothesis, equate to trouble for town?????

Then in post #308 you went to say I was scum because I said Makes a Valid Point.

You have scum painted me over and over since that. And yes he did make a point to consider. the fast we dont consider any points is scummy in my eyes. This is why I read you as scum this is why I am staying you lied.

**Damus_Graves** · November 19th, 2018, 09:07 AM

Also fun stuff:IMG_0923.jpg

Ganelon · November 19th, 2018, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Spoiler : Numbertwo :

Spoiler : StealthBomber :

Spoiler : kenny :

Spoiler : cvote :

I agree with this assessment. No2 has a very laid-back attitude in general however, and I'm not sure if that's something you can conclusively read him for. In fact, I don't believe I've seen him post more than, maybe, 20 times a game. I think he actually posts more as scum.

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

Then in post #308 you went to say I was scum because I said Makes a Valid Point.

You have scum painted me over and over since that. And yes he did make a point to consider. the fast we don't consider any points is scummy in my eyes. This is why I read you as scum this is why I am staying you lied.

I called out fluff when I saw it. It's not my fault you think I have a hard-on for you. Must be one of those male fallacies.

but hey, me being good with your vote out doesn't mean i think you're scummy. I DID at some point in time, but right now, you're just not on anyones radar. And according to my votes, you're my least towny town.

Also, @everyone be careful about referring to someone as he if you don't know they're a he.

Ganelon · November 19th, 2018, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Magoroth

I agree with this assessment. No2 has a very laid-back attitude in general however, and I'm not sure if that's something you can conclusively read him for. In fact, I don't believe I've seen him post more than, maybe, 20 times a game. I think he actually posts more as scum.

But yeah, definitely not opposed to lynching him over, say, Distorted.

As for the others:

Kenny strikes me as particularly scummy. He's been discrediting Voss and lying about people's statements, and defending Mike from a Lynch, something I find unacceptable. I'd sooner Lynch Mike than Voss, and that's solely based on the fact that Voss is easier to read and a better ally to keep in the game. And, as he said, he does pro-town things even as scum ^^ so yeah, I believe Kenny is quite scummy.

SB16... I'm not sure. I find him quite aggressive, and somewhat useless thus far, I don't really recall him doing anything noteworthy or bringing anything new to the table. Not opposed to his Lynch either.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

I called out fluff when I saw it. It's not my fault you think I have a hard-on for you. Must be one of those male fallacies.

but hey, me being good with your vote out doesn't mean i think you're scummy. I DID at some point in time, but right now, you're just not on anyones radar. And according to my votes, you're my least towny town.

Also, @everyone be careful about referring to someone as he if you don't know they're a he.

( Sorry Voss about that last part ) I am starting to get the feeling we are 2 town fighting each other. I ma going to let it go as if this is true this argument will only derail town.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Magoroth

But yeah, definitely not opposed to lynching him over, say, Distorted.

As for the others:

Kenny strikes me as particularly scummy. He's been discrediting Voss and lying about people's statements, and defending Mike from a Lynch, something I find unacceptable. I'd sooner Lynch Mike than Voss, and that's solely based on the fact that Voss is easier to read and a better ally to keep in the game. And, as he said, he does pro-town things even as scum ^^ so yeah, I believe Kenny is quite scummy.

SB16... I'm not sure. I find him quite aggressive, and somewhat useless thus far, I don't really recall him doing anything noteworthy or bringing anything new to the table. Not opposed to his Lynch either.

Thanks Mag on the vote Mike over Voss. anyways I do have to agree about the Kenny. he is rather Red or Nuet. so he is the safety vote. I have also noticed Light is the only one who has not voted Kenny. Yes My vote may change depending on what Judge says. I think we need to all consider what judge as to say also.

Spoiler : cvote :

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 10:30 AM

Hell yeah, Kenny's on top.

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 10:55 AM

Does mafia win if courtroom bomber is alive?

@AIVION

**AIVION** · November 19th, 2018, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Voss

Does mafia win if courtroom bomber is alive?

@AIVION

The Courtroom Bomber must be dead at the end for the Mafia to win.
Do not take this answer as confirmation of this role existing or not. Thanks.

**Stealthbomber16** · November 19th, 2018, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Am I correct in reading that I am suspected because of change in tone and because slaol finds me scummy?
In addition to MM finding me scummy for our interactions together?

You would be correct. I don't like how you made a complete 180 in the middle of the day in your post style.

I'll respond to Damus's post on me in a bit. Gotta eat some lunch. For now I want to move Kenny and Num2 up on my list a little bit and bring mag and MM down. I don't like Num's latest posts where he just sheeps the mayor. I think that's very unlike him and that he's flying under the radar a little bit. Something stood out as scummy about Kenny and I actually can't remember what it was now that I'm writing this LOL

Spoiler : cvote :

**Stealthbomber16** · November 19th, 2018, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by AIVION

The Courtroom Bomber must be dead at the end for the Mafia to win.
Do not take this answer as confirmation of this role existing or not. Thanks.

he's here

**Voss** · November 19th, 2018, 11:11 AM

Kenny hype train. choo choo.

**Gyrlander** · November 19th, 2018, 11:24 AM

???

**Numbertwo** · November 19th, 2018, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Numbertwo has not made any impact on the day at any point in time. Most of the other players havent had him high up on the radar. He has also been given a GIANT amount of time to do ANYTHING.
No impactful questions, no detailed thoughts. Opting into the sheep meta, and having a few questionable posts when considering word choices.
For example:
When he spoke about being a defender or a prosecutor he stated:
" if i end up being the defender or prosecutor then i will do everything in my power to see my role fulfilled "

See my ROLE fulfilled. Please note the word role in this sentence, where as the structure of said sentence is meant to convey a potential alignment. This sentence is talking about the trial of a selected player and the implication that Numbertwo is going to be on the bracket for defender/prosecutor. Firstly; why would one make an assumption that they are going to be on the floor during the trial when the trialee is selected. Being a prosecutor i can understand, a prosecutor is randomly selected from people who voted for the target.
But a DEFENDER is selected from people who didnt vote/abstained. As you can see from the quotes above: numbertwo has included EVERYONE in his votes.
According to my understanding of the trial mechanics Numbertwo has no possibility to be a defender. Thus he shouldnt be assuming he can be a defender on the trial in the first place. This could very well be a minor scum slip, when paired with the sheep meta and lurking mentality; there is a strong enough case to present Numbertwo as a valid trial target.

According to his recent list he believes the top scum are
These are three players who are not even in the top tier discussions for who to FOS, by majority of the players in this game. It is reasonably suspicious of Numbertwo to be voting these select players so highly. thoughts?

i was obviously referring to the role as prosecutor or defendant. i didn't actually know how the defendant mechanics worked, i just thought that someone who had didn't have him on #1 would be selected.

I think it's suspicious that you know about this mechanic without asking it in the thread. Did you ask it in the scum chat?

Spoiler : cvote :

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:41 AM

Alright I wrote my wallposts on the arguments you made against me.
First off, this is the initial conversation that started it all.

Originally Posted by Kenny

These are all messages Voss left between his last 3 votes.

He brought up his neutral trap plan first, which is arguably not a towny plan and his been mainly used by scum players in the past. Defended himself there.

"
I had something typed up here, but I thought it might be too much of a "future discredit" and town doesn't need that."

4 oneliners addressed at individual people with no new content whatsoever
sheeped slaol and updated his votes according to slaol

a bunch of discrediting, in a rude way

a dumb question towards the Mayor

then he changed his list again.

The biggest change there was that Mike and Gyrlander fell to a much lower spot, and Voss did not explain a single thing about this change.
As opportunistic as I am, I still scumread Voss and I'd like to see that reasoning for the Mike/Gyrlander change.

Originally Posted by Voss

Glad you pointed it out, I can tell you why I edited my vote the way I did.

I want(ed) blink and Mike and Gyr gone, and Slaol wants Damus, MM, Stealth, and you gone.

So i asked which slaol prefers between mike and blink, and made them my second choice. Then went with Damus as Slaols' #2 pick for my #3. Added Number2 because noncontributor, and I think there's a connection between him and Damus. Then went with Stealth over you because I can see you as being more town. Peppered in my second person I want gone (Mike) for #6 slot. Added you because Slaol suspects you. Then because I want Gyr around more than Light, I put light next.

Also the majority of the posts you commented aren't me discrediting people, go look at context again.

Originally Posted by Kenny

We aren't close to EoD yet. Why are you already adjusting your votes so heavily according to the mayor's opinion?

I myself would at least only do that when we reach the phase for that, just like how it's usually done in games with regular voting as well. The mayor doesn't have investigative powers and it's in the town's interest to push reads, instead of to sheep one player.

Originally Posted by Voss

Because mayor doesn't get a vote and someone has to represent their interests.

If you don't like who's on top, push other people. Try to get people to listen to you on me. However, My town reads are safe, and I don't really feel a need to push anyone right now. I want the trial to begin.

Originally Posted by Stealthbomber16

This post is why Voss is town.

Originally Posted by Kenny

please keep in mind that mike is at the top of the current consensus and not a scumread of Slaol.

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:41 AM

MM and Mag both were reading that argument and at least Mag said it was towny with one post. Distorted reacted like this:

Originally Posted by Distorted

wow is this a random defense of mike? lol @Kenny why about mike being at the top do you not like? other than "mayor isnt voting him" ?

Originally Posted by Distorted

how did that make kenny move to town for you? he is trying to get votes off someone, which in itself isnt scummy, but using the mayors list for reasoning rather than his own. How often do u see that on the mod? "FOLLOW MAYOR" as town starts voting the obvious mafia, but the mayor doesnt?

Originally Posted by Distorted

@Mike can you give me a list of your scumreads ect and why? other than me and blink for voting u? honestly im starting to think u are town. im not seeing any defense of you other than kenny, and i would rather kenny on trial than u at this point because kenny has contributed at all. Stelath or Gyrlander would be my top picks. stelath is a much better player than what he is offering us this game. he even siad he was "busy" but when he came back it was even shallower posts than before.

He took my posts completely out of context and scumpainted me together with Mike there.

MM a bit later posted this in a conversation with sb16. Before I came online again:

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Hmm.... Objection retained.

Magoroth's behavior change was First posts of the game ===> until now. I didn't like his entrance but then he made himself the most towny player in this game, along with Distorted. Why: he is scum hunting, he is carefree, he's not trying to fuck us over with shitty strategy or purposely shitty reads, he's fitting his town meta a lot, and he's not fitting his scum meta at all.

Kenny did post a bit btw, saying he was tired as fuck because it was 2 AM for me at the time so it was probably 3-4 AM lol.

And yes, I think I did change my behavior quite drastically when Slaol appeared and just claimed I was scum lol.

Spoiler : cvote :

The bottom four are my town core, with Stealth being at its margin. Aka town core but not lock town. Disto and Mag are lock towns. And at worst they're neutrals playing exactly as they would as town.

"Kenny did post a bit btw, saying he was tired as fuck because it was 2 AM for me at the time so it was probably 3-4 AM lol." then he put me as 2nd place in his list. I'm guessing it's to impose to Distorted as it clearly can't have been his own read.

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:42 AM

Then I posted this:

Originally Posted by Kenny

Spoiler : cvote :

That was terribly obvious scumpainting from Distorted, saying I defended Mike "softly" with a quote that was taken completely out of context. Voss just silently went along and I guess MM and stealth just didn't read my conversation with Voss or what?

I added Gyrlander to my vote because Voss' explanation on him doesn't add up. He first said Gyr was a scumread of his, then said he adjusted his votes because of Slaol, now he apparently wants to put effort into defending Gyrlander. Who was his scumread until the mayor gave a list without him.

"Gyr was a scumread of his"
Voss has said "I want(ed) blink and Mike and Gyr gone, and Slaol wants Damus, MM, Stealth, and you gone." in an earlier post I also quoted.
If I replace the word scumread in my sentence I get this:
I added Gyrlander to my vote because Voss' explanation on him doesn't add up. He first said he wanted him gone, then said he adjusted his votes because of Slaol, now he apparently wants to put effort into defending Gyrlander. Who he wanted gone until the mayor gave a list without him.

Here's the post that made me believe Voss is willing to defend Gyrlander:

Originally Posted by Voss

I'm good with Mike and Blink at the top of town's consideration for being voted out. Gyr maybe not, but MM comes next which is someone Slaol wants out. My votes are more aligned with what Slaol want, and what I want. I'll probably pick up my activity if Gyr gets pushed to #2, but I'm not going to defend Mike or Blink.

Also call me a lurker again and I'll ignore you and keep you as my #1 vote for the rest of the game. Do it. I dare you.

Magoroth replied with this to me saying whether Voss scumreads Gyr or only wants him gone doesn't matter in this context:

Originally Posted by Magoroth

I disagree, it means the world. It means that if Gyrlander changes their behaviour, they won't want them gone. It's a policy Lynch.

Gyrlander did not change his behaviour. The point I was making was that Voss did not have a reason to put Gyrlander lower in his list, if he were town.

Then Mag said this:

Originally Posted by Magoroth

Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
I am really the scummiest here? Wow I am gone for church And I am scum read. PL Fine just remember Blink and Distorted have me as there number 1 scum. Damus has me as his number 2 scum. SO when I flip Green remember this post please town REMEMBER THIS POST.
@Kenny this is literally an appeal to emotion. Why did you lie? You only lie as scum.

He quoted Mike and called me a liar for a quote I didn't address before. I never said Mike didn't act scummy there. I'm not voting Mike because he's been acting exactly like this in previous games as well, with a town-mindset.

Originally Posted by Magoroth

I can perfectly understand why one would have Mike so high in their Lynch list, he's highly defensive and OMGUSy.

If anything, Mike makes more appeals to emotion than anyone else has this entire game. @Kenny you're misrepresenting the Voss-Kenny argument completely.

First off, he meant the Voss-Mike argument. Regardless I didn't address Mike's side of the argument at all. Magoroth lied there.

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Misrepresentation of an argument is a literal scum tell

Later MM quoted that some post Voss complained about before and replied with this:

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

That's straight up a lie... My list hasn't changed but I'm restating it.

Spoiler : cvote :

here I wanna remind you that MM posted this not long before that:

Originally Posted by Marshmallow Marshall

Hmm.... Objection retained.

Magoroth's behavior change was First posts of the game ===> until now. I didn't like his entrance but then he made himself the most towny player in this game, along with Distorted. Why: he is scum hunting, he is carefree, he's not trying to fuck us over with shitty strategy or purposely shitty reads, he's fitting his town meta a lot, and he's not fitting his scum meta at all.

Kenny did post a bit btw, saying he was tired as fuck because it was 2 AM for me at the time so it was probably 3-4 AM lol.

And yes, I think I did change my behavior quite drastically when Slaol appeared and just claimed I was scum lol.

Spoiler : cvote :

The bottom four are my town core, with Stealth being at its margin. Aka town core but not lock town. Disto and Mag are lock towns. And at worst they're neutrals playing exactly as they would as town.

Which leads me to the conclusion that MM is purely sheeping here. He just repeated what Voss said.

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

Spoiler : Numbertwo :

Spoiler : StealthBomber :

Spoiler : kenny :

Spoiler : cvote :

Damus here cherrypicked posts from no2, stealth and me specifically. That by itself is ok, I guess. I want to address what he said about me however.

however there is a hyper focus on Voss and Gyrlander that doesnt make 100% of sense
I admit it might look like I'm tunneled on Voss. hyperfocus on Gyrlander is straight bullshit however. I literally only voted him because Voss' story doesn't add up, I explained this and I did not put more focus into it.

A couple of the posts in kennys hand state that Voss is emotionally appealing to the town for doesnt add up. Voss hasnt been emotionally appealing and Kenny straight up misinformed town on a reaction in the above quotes.
It was exactly one post in which I said Voss has been emotionally appealing and Voss himself hasn't even denied that he did that. Damus lied there.

He argues with Voss and then later agrees with Voss without some kind of resolution to the previous argument.
I did not agree with Voss. He is literally my top scumread.

Originally Posted by Magoroth

But yeah, definitely not opposed to lynching him over, say, Distorted.

As for the others:

Kenny strikes me as particularly scummy. He's been discrediting Voss and lying about people's statements, and defending Mike from a Lynch, something I find unacceptable. I'd sooner Lynch Mike than Voss, and that's solely based on the fact that Voss is easier to read and a better ally to keep in the game. And, as he said, he does pro-town things even as scum ^^ so yeah, I believe Kenny is quite scummy.

SB16... I'm not sure. I find him quite aggressive, and somewhat useless thus far, I don't really recall him doing anything noteworthy or bringing anything new to the table. Not opposed to his Lynch either.

I did not discredit, I did not lie and I did not defend Mike from a lynch. Mag is making shit up there.

Originally Posted by Mike

Thanks Mag on the vote Mike over Voss. anyways I do have to agree about the Kenny. he is rather Red or Nuet. so he is the safety vote. I have also noticed Light is the only one who has not voted Kenny. Yes My vote may change depending on what Judge says. I think we need to all consider what judge as to say also.

Spoiler : cvote :

"so he is the safety vote" This is coming from Mike's perspective. It's a vote that prevents Mike from getting lynched, so he just sheeped to save his own ass.
I still don't scumread Mike for that, but this is poor play and I can imagine this coming from a neutral.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 11:43 AM

swaping Kenny and Light. plus Light has not added much last game light added more with a confirmed roll by Avion. I think we need a little push on Light.

Spoiler : cvote :

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:44 AM

Spoiler : cvote :

I'm not including MM and Mike in my vote for now.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny

Then I posted this:

"Gyr was a scumread of his"
Voss has said "I want(ed) blink and Mike and Gyr gone, and Slaol wants Damus, MM, Stealth, and you gone." in an earlier post I also quoted.
If I replace the word scumread in my sentence I get this:
I added Gyrlander to my vote because Voss' explanation on him doesn't add up. He first said he wanted him gone, then said he adjusted his votes because of Slaol, now he apparently wants to put effort into defending Gyrlander. Who he wanted gone until the mayor gave a list without him.

Here's the post that made me believe Voss is willing to defend Gyrlander:

Magoroth replied with this to me saying whether Voss scumreads Gyr or only wants him gone doesn't matter in this context:

Gyrlander did not change his behaviour. The point I was making was that Voss did not have a reason to put Gyrlander lower in his list, if he were town.

Then Mag said this:

He quoted Mike and called me a liar for a quote I didn't address before. I never said Mike didn't act scummy there. I'm not voting Mike because he's been acting exactly like this in previous games as well, with a town-mindset.

First off, he meant the Voss-Mike argument. Regardless I didn't address Mike's side of the argument at all. Magoroth lied there.

Later MM quoted that some post Voss complained about before and replied with this:

here I wanna remind you that MM posted this not long before that:

Which leads me to the conclusion that MM is purely sheeping here. He just repeated what Voss said.

Damus here cherrypicked posts from no2, stealth and me specifically. That by itself is ok, I guess. I want to address what he said about me however.

however there is a hyper focus on Voss and Gyrlander that doesnt make 100% of sense
I admit it might look like I'm tunneled on Voss. hyperfocus on Gyrlander is straight bullshit however. I literally only voted him because Voss' story doesn't add up, I explained this and I did not put more focus into it.

A couple of the posts in kennys hand state that Voss is emotionally appealing to the town for doesnt add up. Voss hasnt been emotionally appealing and Kenny straight up misinformed town on a reaction in the above quotes.
It was exactly one post in which I said Voss has been emotionally appealing and Voss himself hasn't even denied that he did that. Damus lied there.

He argues with Voss and then later agrees with Voss without some kind of resolution to the previous argument.
I did not agree with Voss. He is literally my top scumread.

I did not discredit, I did not lie and I did not defend Mike from a lynch. Mag is making shit up there.

"so he is the safety vote" This is coming from Mike's perspective. It's a vote that prevents Mike from getting lynched, so he just sheeped to save his own ass.
I still don't scumread Mike for that, but this is poor play and I can imagine this coming from a neutral.

NO NO NO kenny not safety vote for me. Safety vote for town. If you are nuet or red town dont have a green loch ie the 2 lych counter town loses. That is what I meant by safety vote dont try and Make it sound like it was a safety vote for me.

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

NO NO NO kenny not safety vote for me. Safety vote for town. If you are nuet or red town dont have a green loch ie the 2 lych counter town loses. That is what I meant by safety vote dont try and Make it sound like it was a safety vote for me.

I am not red or neut. There is no safety for town there.

**Mike** · November 19th, 2018, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Kenny

I am not red or neut. There is no safety for town there.

One thing is why did you defend me? did you see my side ? I thank you for it dont get me wrong but everyone was on the Lych Mike train but you. so yes that make me suspect because I flip green as any red would know i would that would give you town credit for defending me. OR you saw Voss attacking me. btw I am thinking it was more 2 towns butting heads. But Why defend me when all of town was agent me is my question??

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Mike

One thing is why did you defend me? did you see my side ? I thank you for it dont get me wrong but everyone was on the Lych Mike train but you. so yes that make me suspect because I flip green as any red would know i would that would give you town credit for defending me. OR you saw Voss attacking me. btw I am thinking it was more 2 towns butting heads. But Why defend me when all of town was agent me is my question??

please read my wallpost. I did not defend you. Distorted and Mag literally made that up.

**Damus_Graves** · November 19th, 2018, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kenny

Did you mess up names there?
Mike uses emotions, and because of that I lied about Voss and my previous own argument with Voss which wasn't about Mike at all? What?

Originally Posted by Kenny

Good with Mike and blink lynches, Voss also had them as scumread for a while.In response to Mike's push against him he just tried dodging, and then named 7 people to shift the pressure to. Several of them being townreads for him.Literally admits there that it looks like he's pushing and he doesn't want to be responsible for a lynch. Voss is expecting Mike to flip town if Mike were to get lynched.And here Voss is trying to appeal to emotions. That's a scumtell.

@Kenny

Two posts about Voos emotional appeals. There is another post where, while you dont outright say anything, it definitely gives off the vibe of the argument.

**Kenny** · November 19th, 2018, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Damus_Graves

@Kenny

Two posts about Voos emotional appeals. There is another post where, while you dont outright say anything, it definitely gives off the vibe of the argument.

first one was in response to Mag, who quoted my other post.

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