Kuma: 1-S2-1-4226203 , NandaHero: 1-S2-1-4566521

[IronMax]

Account Name: Kuma
Account ID: 1-S2-1-4226203
In-Game Name: Gon

Crimes Committed: Skyping

Account Name: NandaHero
Account ID: 1-S2-1-4566521
In-Game Name: Yamaxanadu

Crimes Committed: Skyping

Your Account Name: max
Summary:

Nandahero gets Doctor(3), Kuma Lookout(9).

These two always join the lobby together, NandaHero(3) heals Kuma(9) every night and when 3 gets trialed for not voting up the consort and innoing him, 9 defends him and says he's inno even though he can't know that as Lookout.

NandaHero - Kuma - Skyping.SC2Replay

[Veri]

SC ID VERIFICATION
Kuma: Correct: 1-S2-1-4226203
NandaHero: Correct: 1-S2-1-4566521

Players Added to Report
N/A

Respective Hotkeys
Kuma: 8
NandaHero: 7

Was the Game Result altered?
No, town still lost, but they definitely had an advantage.

Previous Offenses
Kuma: Role-Quitting (On-Hold)
Both: Potential Skyping (On-Hold)

Player Offenses
Kuma: Skyping
NandaHero: Skyping

Summary
NandaHero receives the role Doctor in Slot 3.
Kuma receives the role Lookout in Slot 9.

N1 3 heals 9, 9 watches 6.
D2 9 reveals as Lookout and gets the Consort (4) lynched. 3 is the only player to vote innocent.
N2 3 heals 9, 9 watches 2.
D3 3 gets voted up because he is the only one who didn’t vote the Consort up and innoed him. 3 claims Doctor on trial. 9 says „imo we should kill 13“ „inno“ and votes innocent, saving 3s life since only 1 person voted guilty. Other townies keep pushing for 3s lynch but 9 says „3 is innocent“ „let him be“ even though he can’t know that as Lookout (he never saw 3 visit anyone). 9 is checking the log multiple times, looking for people who didn’t vote the Consort up. Nobody is lynched that day.
N3 3 heals 9, 9 watches 3. 9 is attacked but healed by 3.
D4 9 wants to vote up 14 because he didn’t vote up the Consort. 9 also states that 3 is confirmed Town because he got healed that night even though 3 had never said that it was him who healed 9. 14 gets lynched and turns out to be Sheriff.
N4 3 heals 9, 9 watches 3.
D5 3 is dead, he got attacked twice and cleaned by the Janitor. With 9’s information on who visited him, town manages to lynch the GF that day.
D6 4 people are left (2 town, SK, Maf). The SK gets lynched.
N6 The mafioso kills a townie and Mafia wins the game.

In my opinion, this is pretty obvious. NandaHero heals Kuma every Night until he dies, Kuma immediately defends NandaHero when he gets voted up.

Kuma defending 3 even though he didn’t trial the consort and voted inno makes no sense to me since he was actively looking for other players who didn’t vote up the Consort and said that they are suspicious. The adjacent slots also indicate that they joined the game together.

The fact that they were suspected of Skyping before pretty much confirms that this is not the first time they have done this.


Recommended Action
Kuma: Watch List x3
NandaHero: Watch List x3

Additional Notes
Thank you for this report!

[Arrow]

1-S2-1-4226203: 3x WL
1-S2-1-4566521: 3x WL

[Barmank]

I'd like to appeal that.

1. My targeting with protective roles is trivial: I heal familiar names first and then switch to revealed important roles, which is pretty straightforward thing to do. I do believe most people act the same, and it's exactly what happened in this game.

2. When I was trialed, my defense was very self-explanatory: some player reported being jailed and there was no kill. Besides, why would I vote innocent on mafia, if I skyped with one who accused him? I revealed as doc with last will like “N1 9, N2 9”. Next night another doc dies to afk. So it was pretty expected that I would heal him again. This is why I think Kuma said that I was confirmed town.

3. According to multiple conflicts I’ve seen in chat between Kuma and Veri, I can presume that Veri is being biased here. You can notice it even in summary:

>N4 3 heals 9, 9 watches 3.
>In my opinion, this is pretty obvious. NandaHero heals Kuma every Night until he dies
Why not do so, especially after public reveal of both participants? This is very efficient strategy and it paid off.

>The fact that they were suspected of Skyping before pretty much confirms that this is not the first time they have done this.
In previous offenses section I can only see report from 2013 year with gamethrow suspect, which have nothing in common with this case and resulting in on-hold action.

>The adjacent slots also indicate that they joined the game together.
I do not deny being battle.net friend with Kuma, but it doesn’t violate any rules, since we play fair and square. Exactly that’s why we were never punished for 4 or so years we play mafia.

[Arrow]

Marked Audit for an Smod.

[SuperJack]

Hello Barmank. I'm the SMOD that is here to Audit the replay

The Watch-List will remain as the Keepers review is valid. (Just a reminder that only you can see the watchlist in the mod.)

Although you may not have been directly skyping and using OGC, you are far too familiar with each others names, that along with your prefer, blacklist and being next to each other in the game shows that you may have too much outside knowledge about each other. Hence giving you an advantage over the other players. Even if its wasn't Intentional

What we suggest is that if you are playing with friends, hide who you are from them also, so you don't recognise their names and make sure never to let your prefer/blacklist be outside knowledge.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask me ^^ And thank you very much for being Polite about this.

- - - Updated - - -
@Barmank

[Barmank]

Hey SuperJack.

I dont want to look like a douchebag here, but what is having an advantage? I have an advantage at this game over most players simply because I played it way more than average player, and no punishment will ever change it, this includes experience, blacklist/prefer, being able to see voting patterns etc.
As to your suggestions, we live in human world and its impossible to become invisible to other people by just picking new name, there are personal things like speech manner and game attitude. I think even Veri will easily recognize me with random name by day3 in game.

>make sure never to let your prefer/blacklist be outside knowledge.
Blacklist/prefer by itself put players in disadvantage, knowing it or not is less important. Not speaking of them being printed at start of every game, so anyone could check replay and learn blacklists of every player.

My prime concern here isnt being placed on watchlist, but this:
Cheating / Additional Information Watch-list x3 Ban-list x2 # Ban-list x4 # Permaban #

Next time someone reports me it will slide like cheese "hey they skype 24/7, they were even punished before". You even admit that crime Im being accused with possibly never happened, so what is the reason we are discussing here?

[Veri]

Hey,
I would like to give you my POV here (replies in green, what you said earlier in white):

I'd like to appeal that.

1. My targeting with protective roles is trivial: I heal familiar names first and then switch to revealed important roles, which is pretty straightforward thing to do. I do believe most people act the same, and it's exactly what happened in this game.

At first glance, that makes sense. But: if you heal your friend (which isn't a problem, a ton of people always choose the same name and get targeted because of that, both in a good and bad way), then I'm assuming that you think he is town. Because if you don't, why would you heal him? So you think he's town and you still don't believe his lead and vote inno on the guy he accused? That just doesn't add up to me, either you think he's good and then you'd follow him and vote guilty or you don't, but then you wouldn't heal him in the first place?

2. When I was trialed, my defense was very self-explanatory: some player reported being jailed and there was no kill. Besides, why would I vote innocent on mafia, if I skyped with one who accused him? I revealed as doc with last will like “N1 9, N2 9”. Next night another doc dies to afk. So it was pretty expected that I would heal him again. This is why I think Kuma said that I was confirmed town.

Claiming doc doesn't confirm you, it's quite the opposite actually since it's a popular role for evils to claim because it's so easy to fake. Kuma also never watched himself to confirm that you visited him so saying you are confirmed without any evidence (you didn't even tell him that it was you who healed him as far as I know) makes no sense to me. Ofc you would claim to be on him since he was confirmed, but every false doc claim would have done the same.

3. According to multiple conflicts I’ve seen in chat between Kuma and Veri, I can presume that Veri is being biased here. You can notice it even in summary:

>N4 3 heals 9, 9 watches 3.
>In my opinion, this is pretty obvious. NandaHero heals Kuma every Night until he dies
Why not do so, especially after public reveal of both participants? This is very efficient strategy and it paid off.

I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I do not have a problem with Kuma, I can't even remember the last time I talked to him, it's been years. If I have any feelings towards either of you then it's that I value both of you as players since I think you both are better than the average and usually contribute a lot to the game. Also, it's not very common for a doc to stay on the same target every night, regardless of whether it's a revealed invest role or not (not saying that he shouldn't, but that's the reality).

>The fact that they were suspected of Skyping before pretty much confirms that this is not the first time they have done this.
In previous offenses section I can only see report from 2013 year with gamethrow suspect, which have nothing in common with this case and resulting in on-hold action.

In this report, the reviewing keeper wrote: "also i noticed that pandahero and kuma were side by side and have same clan tag, one of them was the original cult and first converted the other, i see the potential of skyping but they still lost". I couldn't watch the replay since it's so old but when players get suspected of skyping multiple times (especially by different people), chances are that it's true.

>The adjacent slots also indicate that they joined the game together.
I do not deny being battle.net friend with Kuma, but it doesn’t violate any rules, since we play fair and square. Exactly that’s why we were never punished for 4 or so years we play mafia.

The fact that you never got punished doesn't prove that you never did anything wrong, offenses like Skyping are hard to catch especially when you are clever and don't make it too obvious. You also have been suspected of it before, which in my opinion makes it likely that you have done it but just didn't get reported for it.



You saying that we shouldn't punish you because it is possible that you didn't Skype doesn't make a lot of sense to me - we can never be 100% sure if people are Skyping unless they admit it. We try to do our best to be fair and I won't pretend that we are always right, that's why players can appeal when they think we are and someone else looks at it. However, I do not think that we are wrong in this case which is why your appeal was denied.
And I can assure you that we will look very closely at every report, especially ones like Skyping, and not just find anyone guilty because they have a previous offense. Our goal is not to antagonize you, it is to provide a good experience for all mafia players. That also means that we have to punish good players like you when they break the rules though.

I hope I made myself clear that in no way did I punish you because I am biased but because I have looked at this replay a few times and have come to the conclusion that you are indeed guilty of Skyping.

[SuperJack]

Hey @Barmank

Got Skype? I feel we can talk better there ^^
My Skype is: SuperJackkk
And I'll be on in about an hour or two till I sleep. =)