S-FM 298: Third Line Butterfly

[deathworlds]

And with that, I'm off for the night, I used up all my bigbrain juice.

I might take another look tomorrow when I'm refreshed.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Clearly some lines have been drawn that will be useful for the Justice. Re-reading Light Yigama, there is some funny business, and skipping hurts town more than it could possibly help, so I am willing to revisit this prospect of lynch target.

@renegade I know it's not malicious, but editing posts is forbidden in FM and considered as cheating, so spelling mistakes and similar things are to be fixed before posting or to be left in.

Im an experienced mafia player, (Been playing since 2008 ) so yes I am totally fine going with my gut when things ping me about someone.

But do you have nothing else to say about him? There's so much you could address, yet you just say "gut" to explain the place where your vote, so in theory your top scumread, goes to.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I want to discuss this point from Marshmellow some more. I am not sufficiently convinced that they both cannot be town. I think people are being overtly aggressive, which surely is a strategy to start drawing lines, but this is one hell of a feedback loop that is blowing way out of proportion IMO. I do not believe there is enough evidence to rule out that they are BOTH town, and so a push to lynch one or the other does not get extra justification -that lynching one reveals the other.

Um, you can criticize my reads, but you surely cannot remove my constitutional right to have the reads I want to lol. I'm not ruling it out completely, but it's still very unlikely to me. Now, if you think my read on one or both of them is wrong, you can explain why; you'd need to give arguments, though.
About aggressive behavior, that's something normal in FM because we don't have as many leads from TPRs (town power roles, aka non-citizen townies). It's needed. It doesn't mean everyone who gets pushed will die, but it means everyone who gets pushed is asked to contribute something, often with their defense, and that's pro-town.

The three people mentioned were on a wagon together when that was posted (in reference to why he excluded you)

Ah ok

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Of those voters whose vote concerns you most?

I'd like to hear that too, and I'll add "and why?" to that question.

Or I'm at home quarantined and my girl doesn't appreciate me ignoring her. You trying to push me as avoiding the thread is a laugh given the difference in our activity levels so far this game.

Ehh, that may be right and I hate pushing at real life business claims so I'll leave it at that. However, you can't deny that posting the minute I say I'll ISO you (and probably ask you some questions), and then vanishing, can rise suspicions a little bit.
As for our activity levels, uh no? You've been posting a lot of small things with little follow-ups, iirc. It's not to boast, but my posts were usually bigger and had content in them, with follow-ups on the people I pushed or reaction-tested, or townread. Speaking of that, what are your reads?

Also, I think I've seen enough to make a list of reads. I'll do that in a separated before going to bed (yep, I haven't slept!).

[Marshmallow Marshall]

List of Reads



BananaCucho

Theoneceko

Deathworlds
Ganelon

(null) - Revenant

DS

Renegade

Light_Yagami
Varcron (one of them is probably town because they don't look SvS, though)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Last thing: I haven't deeply analyzed Deathworlds' ISO of Light, but I agree with its general terms and its conclusion.

I'm off, see you later.

[Ganelon]

Mm is giving me really weird vibes this game. It’s almost as if you act towny when interacting with some people and scummy when interacting with others

[Light_Yagami]

I'd like to know why @DS. voted deathworlds.

I don't like Light_Yagami's decision to -skip. That gives mafia the opportunity to kill someone that ISN'T in this heated debate, allowing the back-and-forth to continue. It's possible that the battle between Light_Yagami/Varcron and deathworlds/Ganelon/Marshmallow Marshall is literally town versus scum or vice versa. Lynching someone from either side could tell us which side is scum. Also, it's possible that DS is on the side of Light_Yagami/Varcron (but doesn't want to reveal this) since he voted deathworlds.

It's interesting how team dw/g/mm all -vote Light_Yagami, then -vote Varcron. However, as dw & g mentioned...




...Varcron's defense of Light is strange. Varcron justifies this by claiming Light is playing like he usually does as town. Varc said Light was mislynched as town in previous FMs because he was blatantly scummy, and therefore Light is



@Light_Yagami , could you tell me which FMs you were town? That way I'll know if Varcron was lying.

S-FM Third Line Butterfly Is One Game Where I Am Town And Its Been Quite Some Time Since Ive Played So I Dont Recall Off Hand Other Games ATM. If Anyone Else Can Recall And Help Me Answer This Question That Would Be Great.

[Light_Yagami]

List of Reads



BananaCucho

Theoneceko

Deathworlds
Ganelon

(null) - Revenant

DS

Renegade

Light_Yagami
Varcron (one of them is probably town because they don't look SvS, though)

Hey MM U Need To Slide Me Up To That Town Slot.

[Light_Yagami]

Here's my completed ISO for Light

Spoiler : Not fluff :

The first relevant post from Light in the game, it's just a simple question about a RVS vote


Not the lover, good news I suppose.


Forms a correlation between MM and Banana based on some very early day voting. This becomes something that Light follows up on.



This really gets me, I suppose on some level I can understand this as a very novice play, but I don't think Light is that much of a novice.


Shows misunderstanding about the setup.


Justifies his misunderstanding about the setup.


Ack, don't leave, and it shouldn't be a motivation or a struggle to meet a fifteen post minimum in 48+ hour days, especially considering Light's posts eventually hit the triple digits.


This is a very incriminating post that contradicts himself and his actions. He claims to use skip vote only if he's jailor or if he's blackmailed, he used it as a tool. Yet here, it feels like apathy when he votes to skip, or it's out of some sort of principle. But don't worry, those doubts certainly have not fallen on deaf ears.


Potentially this one. We don't know.


States the illogical conclusion that a 1 for 1 trade mafia for town wouldn't be a net gain for town, or at least refuses to admit that 1 for 1's are good.


Says this in response to Galeon suggesting that Light's scum meta is passive aggressive. It's almost comical how Light acted in a manner similar to passive aggression to that.


This is the point where Light clearly states his scumread for Ganelon, or at least his desire to be lynched.


In response to Galeon's lynch list, of which Light made the top.



Asks me to elaborate on why I thought he was scum, of which I then did.



Claims to have created some sort of breadcrumb trail, but in this ISO I could not find it.


I really have a strong disdain for posts like this, especially when they're done in the middle of pressure, it shows an absolute unawareness of the game.


Says this in response to Galeon claiming to not find the crumbs Light left behind.
Tinfoil hat time, Light is an actress and is trying to communicate to the scum team his night results?? No, well it's possible, but it'll be a happy coincidence if I'm right about this one. But it's still unlikely, he could just wait until the next night to communicate his results.


Wow an actual scum read, I just wish we had literally anything other than surface level claims.


Ugh, a shitty response to this post in question

If he's confirmed scum, why don't you vote him?



Here's his shite justification for the confirmed scum claim.


Light continues to fight Ganelon, more news at 7.



After these posts I immediately call Light out for TPR hunting for Justice.



This is his response regarding the manner.


Gives this response when I tell him why it's bad for Justice to reveal.



More about the bloody feedback, ay coromba!





Starts to discuss his own meta

Says this when I say neutral hunting is bad play, which admittedly is something I've done before.


This is really overconfident if anything, but it's probably fluff.



Well... yeah, you're probably gonna be lynched, if you were scum, then that'd be good for me, yes?


An actual good question for another player, a genuine prod. Too bad there's no follow-up from Light.


"bro just iso me bro, you'll find out I'm not scum" At this point I pointed out exactly why I thought he was scummy on multiple occasions.


Eats up literally any townie points given to him during this pressure.


Says this when I claim he could just be consciously conforming to his town meta


Not only is he talking about his own meta again, I think this post directly indicates that he's not scum hunting at all.


A quick reiteration of his first scum read, that he STILL REFUSES TO VOTE


I guess this could be called some sort of analysis??? It's weak at best, but he said this in response to Banana, and Banana did say something along those lines, I thought it could be an attempt at a scum read, but then,


Says this to the suggestion that he's scumreading banana.
Then PLEASE LIGHT, VOTE FOR GALEON. IF YOU ONLY HAVE A SINGLE SCUM READ, AND ARE CONVICED THEY ARE SCUM, THERE'S NO POINT TO NOT VOTE FOR THEM IF YOU ARE TOWN

Calling troll posts about things that are commonly agreed about alignment indicative



Has these two posts to say in regards to banana's alignment. Why would a town have a potential read on someone and not share them? For scum it takes time to develop fake reads, because they already know the alignment of their teammates and everyone else. So they have to come up with shite or outright fake reasons to scum read someone.


Thinks Galeon is TPR hunting, and that's why he's his scum read. Honestly this smells like bull from a bloody mile away.



Also has these to say in regards to Galeon.


Says this when he's prodded by myself and others saying that he's been closer to TPR hunting than anyone else.


Literally the weakest defense I've seen from a post that wasn't aimed at him at all


Says this in response to DS townreading him. At least he isn't openly eating the free townie points.


Never further elaborates on this line of thought when I said I townread Banana, but nullread MM


I uh, actually don't think that Galeon responded to this, Galeon, what do you specifically think of this?


Suggests a course of action, but never follows through with any analysis what-so-ever.


UGH, Galeon is your only scum read, from a townie perspective it should be advantageous to push your scum read.


If you're scum hunting, you should be direct and clear with your line of thought. There's no reason to hide logical reasons to think that someone is scum.

Here's anything that I can't draw anything substantial from, I.E. seem to serve no purpose to discussion, contextual notes are still present where I deem fit.

Spoiler : Fluff :

Intro post, this was about 12 hours into the day.



A couple of fluffy posts to start off with.



















just a fluffy challenge for Ganelon




















Just him agreeing with me saying that Justice will reveal when they decide.



















more "just iso me bro"






"don't lynch me bro"

From this ISO, it's clear to me that Light is a novice, although I think anyone here could've told me that, I don't think he necessarily lacks experience, but I'd suggest there's a lack of critical thinking.
There's hardly any lines of thought given by Light himself, most of his posts are reactive or fluff, with only a few being original thought or something that could encourage new discussion.
What's interesting is that he has some sort of scum read on Banana, MM, Galeon, and myself, as evident by the posts where he incriminates Banana and MM together, and Galeon and myself together. That's four scum reads, and two possible teams of two, and he might be suggesting that Banana and I share the same allignment, so really there's one team of scum he puts together. Galeon, myself, and Banana. Yet he's very adamant that Galeon is his only scum read, and doesn't provide a lot of thought or reasoning into why anyone else might be scum.

Banana and Galeon are two of my top town reads, and Light is scum reading them. Granted, I may not be universally town read yet (as I should be), this may be some attempt to incriminate us all as a group. I believe that Galeon is the same allignment as me, and Banana is a solid town read for me as well.

One cannot ignore the fact that a lot (about maybe a quarter) of his posts are strictly fluff, and the posts that aren't strictly fluff don't contain a lot of original thought.

This ISO didn't do much to convince me that Light is town, and I'm not so sure how many people are town reading him, especially when he's doing the biggest half-assed effort of scum hunting that I've seen.

TL;DR Kira posts a lot of fluff and is still probably scum.

Well He ISOd Me Guess I Better Keep My End Of The Bargain. That Will Take A Bit Of Time. I Need To Wake Up First And Have Some Coffee..

[theoneceko]

Also how is me voting death seem scummy when you are also voting death?

Ah yes, you said Light is playing town meta too. My bad. Like I said before, I just don't want you to go complete unnoticed since no one questioned your alignment.

As for my vote on deathworlds, that's definitely subject to change.

[theoneceko]

Interestingly enough almost no one has chosen to comment on my alignment this game.

This was already mentioned. I thought I should talk about you since it's odd that no one has considering your number of posts.

About your alignment, I'm not entirely sure but right now you lean town. Banana is also my top town read, but maybe that's by his design. HmMMMMmmmmmMMmM

As usual, I don't trust anyone yet.

[theoneceko]

@Frinckles can mafia talk to each other during n0?

[theoneceko]

GOOFY RENEGADE!! OWO KIRA.

[BananaCucho]

Sorry for the delay in getting back here. I was working on going through the posts around Vaccuums train, then ended up playing some warzone with some buddies and finally some heroes til like 3 am lol

This is where I got, saved in my phones clipboard:

I'm willing to shift focus for now, I'm not convinced that Yagami is town, but Varcon is someone I'd like to hear more of.

-vote Varcon

I'll return with more thoughts later, and a proper ISO on yagami

So this was the vote that was worrying me. DW is under a lot of scrutiny so it could totally be a scum move of him jumping to a train that could be a likely alternative to him being lynched, and he made it L-3 with this vote. I'm less worried now though since multiple people had already left Kira and his vote there wasn't doing much anymore and could be better used to pressure his 2nd scum read

So far Vacron seems townie to me, where did this come from all the sudden?

Town points for Renae, he expressed the same "this train came outta no where" thought that I had

It's quite cleared that you either scum slipped here, or you butchered your intended wording.

Stop trying to make "scum slips" happen. They're not gonna happen

I could have easily stayed on the Yagami train for another 24 hours, but here I am, switching focus and actively trying to find scum.

Which is exactly what i'd expect you to do considering that your hype train on Yagami failed fairly miserably.

I dont really understand what Vaccuum is doing with this interaction. He understands and even expects DW to move on from Kira.... so what is this argument exactly? How does this help either convince us that DW is scum, or convince DW (if Vaccuum town reads him) that he (Vaccuum) is also town? It just seems snarky but theres no point

What the actual hell is this? Yagami, a very very powerful asset? Not to be mean, but give me ONE SINGLE GAME in which he was a powerful asset, and I'll say publicly the Dark Lord is merely a myth. As for the read on me, ??? out of nowhere, I've given more thoughts and more content than most people in this game, including yourself.

As for the Heartbreaker line, it makes no sense: the loved target would have claimed by now, and it should 100 % be assumed that the Heartbreaker did not act last night, since assuming that a townie would play this badly is basically going into conspiracy theories.

Honestly, this post + the weird perspective post of Varcron that is a potential slip makes him rank #1 in my scum list.

-vote Varcron

I also think Light - Varcron is a TvS interaction, so this actually gives indirect town points to Light, although he's still very scummy.
About the Light-Varcron interactions, it's very unlikely that they are scum together; it's just not worth whiteknighting a scum!Light like this from scum!Varcron's point of view. It's also very unlikely that they are both Town, because they are both individually scummy.

This is the other vote I thought would worry me but MM is directly calling out Vaccuum on his logic for defending Kira, and with specifics that the other voters didn't direcfly address. Even though the vote put him at L-2, his reasoning was independent, and I can see how a scum Vaccuum using a bad reason to defend a known town could be possible

More powerful of an asset than me apparently, except that'll be seen when I'm lynched and flipped as town. My perspectives for multiple of my claims over the past few games have not been noticed because they are different than the majority, the thing that irritates me the most is this:

out of the calls made, it always appears that the more experienced are believed more.

Try looking at it through my eyes, it's actually fairly black and white once you get past the theoretical stuff.

I'm actually glad you said this, you were Krabs last game right? It seems like you just seem to have a naturally scummy demeanor and get yourself sunk into holes early on often

We had this same problem with two people being confirmed "really scummy" in our last ladder game. It turned out the two people 100% town read by absolutely EVERYONE were our two scum.

This however isnt true mate, I was scum for all of 5 minutes and 1 post total. I didnt pull any blankets over anyones eyes that game

I dunno, I personally see everyone as a fairly valuable asset no matter what. For all we know reads that he gave could be correct.

===================

Right now of forced to choose between DW/Vaccuum or MM/Vaccuum, I'd choose DW/MM and vote Vaccuum. I can't keep doubting my town reads so much as much as I feel for Vaccuum's natural scummy demeanor. So I'd actually ask that we... wait on Vaccuum instead of making that choice here. Let's lynch Irreverant instead

And today should be a slow work day so I'll get catching up with the rest ;)

[BananaCucho]

Here's what I kinda see as happening with Vaccuum's train

Irreverant throws a vote at Vaccuum for "reasons". Not exactly sure why

My banana core alliance of DW, MM, and Galeon all vote together not because its necessarily scum infiltrated, but because they're actually working together well and in sync. Maybe it's scum motivated. Maybe not. I still don't wanna vote in there today. But just in case its scum infiltrated, and because I'd like more time to interact with Vaccuum, I'd be more comfortable if the train moved off of him to someone like Irreverant

Who'd you rather keep in this game? Vaccuum is more of an asset

[Revenant]

So far Vacron seems townie to me, where did this come from all the sudden?

Come On! And give us more!

[theoneceko]

Come On! And give us more!

LMFAO. uWu

[theoneceko]

Rev really has said nothing meaningful this entire game though. Much less than Kira. Death to the False Gods!!! Lynch for the Lynch God!! OwO.

[Revenant]

So who do I scumread here? DW or MM?

I'll take a look over it. Could be Irreverant is the only scum on it. But 4 town votes that quickly halfway through day 1? (x) Doubt

Does Ganelon’s vote mean nothing to you?

[Revenant]

I do find it curious that @Revenant was one of the first to cast a vote but has mysteriously vanished as well.

I’m right behind you!

[Frinckles]

@Frinckles can mafia talk to each other during n0?

Yes.

[Revenant]

Here are my Reads

Don’t kill these SKINSUITS!
Deathworlds, DS., Light

Get Rid of Em!
Ganelon, Varcron, renegade

[Revenant]

Rev really has said nothing meaningful this entire game though. Much less than Kira. Death to the False Gods!!! Lynch for the Lynch God!! OwO.

If given you all content. I don’t do things for Free.

[BananaCucho]

Anyway, picking up where I left off. The following interaction is what makes me pick my allies over Vaccuum:

I dunno, I personally see everyone as a fairly valuable asset no matter what. For all we know reads that he gave could be correct.

There's an obvious disconnect in logic here, which is called out by my ally:

You said this.


You presented it as a general truth, and it's not one. Why are you turning it into a "in this game, he might have been right, who knows?", which is both changing your own narrative and saying words that mean almost nothing?

I wouldn't say that I was saying words that mean almost nothing, you can look at Revenant for that.

@Vaccuum, if you are town there's a reason why more experienced players are trusted when it comes to exchanges like this. I don't want you to feel like your voice isn't heard, but catching double talk like this and questioning/pushing it is a good scum hunting tool that experienced players just tend to have more than less experienced players. A scum player knows alignments and could just invent a reason to try to divert votes away from Kira, and then if Kira is still lynched and flips town, get town cred for townreading them. But when further questioned, your thoughts don't match what you said earlier about your defense of Kira. You must see why in this interaction of MM v Vaccuum, Mallow comes out with the town points

First vote was added at Revenant, who I personally don't see as a valid vote.

Yes I agree, I feel like it was just a vote thrown at someone for no apparent reason whatsoever, and was a scummy vote. Had that vote not occurred, you may have only reached L-3 like everyone else, which wouldn't have raised my eyebrows so much.

Irreverant had 3 votes earlier, and people bailed way too early IMO. We should have pressed him more.

Personally I wouldn't be against a push on Revenant at this point, his contribution is about as watery as the worst soup you've ever had.

Let's do it.

Of those voters whose vote concerns you most?

At an earlier time, the 3rd and 4th voters, DW and MM. Upon further review, definitely the 1st vote, Irreverant

I'd like to scumpaint DS. He talked quite a bit, but nobody questioned his alignment.

Mafia voting together on day 1 is a great way to lose. If one of their members gets lynched, the rest are done for. This makes me more likely to think dw/g/mm are town.

DS's vote on deathWorlds does seem scummy though. Scum wouldn't want to show who his teammates are, hence the lack of vocal defense on Light & Vacuum. However, why not vote the guy who's outing them while me and GOOFY already voted death?

Just some UWU pressure for you. Follow up on that if you'd like plebs. OWO. Again, I don't know which side is scum and I think we'll only find out by lynching someone from either side.

I agree and think at most, only 1 of DW, Mallow, and Galeon would be scum. If the banana core is infiltrated, it's still only by 1 scum, so it's worth looking outside of it from a purely POE perspective at least for today

I've just sorted through just over half of Light's posts, and this is already seeming to be a waste of time.

He's a toned down version of Ice Cream. If he was as obnoxious and insulting, I'd definitely push to PL him. But for now I think he's pretty tame

[BananaCucho]

Does Ganelon’s vote mean nothing to you?

Galeon was the first of the 3 to jump and as such felt the cleanest.

[BananaCucho]

• Skip Day (1 [L-5]):
  Light_Yagami
  

  ---

  Varcron (4 [L-2]):
  Ganelon, deathworlds, Marshmallow Marshall, Revenant
  

  ---

  deathworlds (3 [L-3]):
  theoneceko, DS., renegade
  

  ---

  Revenant (1 [L-5]):
  BananaCucho

If forced to choose between Vaccuum and DW, I will vote Vaccuum. But I think we have enough time to divert the votes elsewhere (cough, irreverant, cough)

[BananaCucho]

I'm gonna do some regression testing, then I'll be back to spend some time doing some of the other things I wanted to do (like re-read through DS's posts)

[theoneceko]

Thank you Finckle!! UwU.

Then I've another theory to propose. Gan, Death, & Kira are the Mafia!! OwO. Gan & Death form a strong "town core" and target Kira, who blatantly acts scummy so the hype train is "justified." Then, they target Varco who's a strong townie (I know he won Sc2Mafia MVP 2019 for the battle.net version uwu) for defending someone who acts so S C U M M Y.

I came up with this theory because my previous theory of dw/g/mm and varc/yagami being town versus scum (or vice versa) seems TOO clear-cut. However, there are three new FORUM players here (Renegade, me, Revenant). GOOFY and I play the mod quite a bit though. So it makes sense for "experienced mafia" to sway the "noob townies" to their side by actively "scumhunting."

Of course, this is assuming Revenant is even town though. He certainly doesn't act like one.

[DS.]

@renegade I know it's not malicious, but editing posts is forbidden in FM and considered as cheating, so spelling mistakes and similar things are to be fixed before posting or to be left in.


But do you have nothing else to say about him? There's so much you could address, yet you just say "gut" to explain the place where your vote, so in theory your top scumread, goes to.

You must surely realize that that is not the only thing I've said about Death this entire game.

[DS.]

I'd like to hear that too, and I'll add "and why?" to that question.


Ehh, that may be right and I hate pushing at real life business claims so I'll leave it at that. However, you can't deny that posting the minute I say I'll ISO you (and probably ask you some questions), and then vanishing, can rise suspicions a little bit.
As for our activity levels, uh no? You've been posting a lot of small things with little follow-ups, iirc. It's not to boast, but my posts were usually bigger and had content in them, with follow-ups on the people I pushed or reaction-tested, or townread. Speaking of that, what are your reads?

Also, I think I've seen enough to make a list of reads. I'll do that in a separated before going to bed (yep, I haven't slept!).

I've been more engaged with the active thread than you and I'll maintain that. If you can't see town thought processes in my quick posts and active thread engagement then that's on you.

[theoneceko]

Ugh I am conflicted. Light could be another Ice Cream, who's lynch is just another mislynch. Plus DW I do think you're in a tunnel right now. I don't like the "too scum to be scum" argument either by vaccuum, but maybe it's time to look elsewhere and possibly revisit this later on when we have more information?

Kira just seems like a trolly town easy mislynch atm

-vote Revenant

Can we revisit this?

Why would you think Kira is another Ice Cream/trolly mislynch while calling Irreverant out as scum?? Neither have really contributed anything besides F L U F F. uwu

[Varcron]

I dont really understand what Vaccuum is doing with this interaction. He understands and even expects DW to move on from Kira.... so what is this argument exactly? How does this help either convince us that DW is scum, or convince DW (if Vaccuum town reads him) that he (Vaccuum) is also town? It just seems snarky but theres no point

I'll be completely honest here, I had no intentions on hammering DW until I re read, hence my non committal sort of phrasing for most of this stuff.

[Varcron]

Why would you think Kira is another Ice Cream/trolly mislynch while calling Irreverant out as scum?? Neither have really contributed anything besides F L U F F. uwu

At least Yagami tried defending himself, Revenent has done basically nothing other than drop a shadow vote on me.

[theoneceko]

You must surely realize that that is not the only thing I've said about Death this entire game.

Yes, DS clearly said Kira's "tone" suggests he's playing his unique town meta. You'd have to check DS's first posts for this, though. This was something I overlooked too.

[BananaCucho]

Why would you think Kira is another Ice Cream/trolly mislynch while calling Irreverant out as scum?? Neither have really contributed anything besides F L U F F. uwu

Kira also softclaimed TPR.

[BananaCucho]

I'll be completely honest here, I had no intentions on hammering DW until I re read, hence my non committal sort of phrasing for most of this stuff.

Thanks for the honesty!

[theoneceko]

I've been more engaged with the active thread than you and I'll maintain that. If you can't see town thought processes in my quick posts and active thread engagement then that's on you.If you can't see town thought processes in my quick posts and active thread engagement then that's on you.

I agree, DS's posts are short but have value. For example, he urged us to stop discussing the setup with that UWU picture, since it allows mafia to hide. OWO

[DS.]

Yes, DS clearly said Kira's "tone" suggests he's playing his unique town meta. You'd have to check DS's first posts for this, though. This was something I overlooked too.

Death, not Kira

[Varcron]

• Skip Day (1 [L-5]):
  Light_Yagami
  

  ---

  Varcron (4 [L-2]):
  Ganelon, deathworlds, Marshmallow Marshall, Revenant
  

  ---

  deathworlds (3 [L-3]):
  theoneceko, DS., renegade
  

  ---

  Revenant (1 [L-5]):
  BananaCucho

If forced to choose between Vaccuum and DW, I will vote Vaccuum. But I think we have enough time to divert the votes elsewhere (cough, irreverant, cough)

Like, these four votes on me were over the course of 2-3 hours after Revenant dropped his, which if fairly quick considering the fact.

[theoneceko]

These are either two bad reads by Marshmallow, who claims he's only "skimming the thread," or signs that he's scum.

SCUM POINTS FOR U MARSH. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[DS.]

I would be okay voting MM also fwiw.

[DS.]

These are either two bad reads by Marshmallow, who claims he's only "skimming the thread," or signs that he's scum.

SCUM POINTS FOR U MARSH. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This is a mind meld same time post lol

[Varcron]

I also do not really believe that scum typically makes up cases like DW or Ganelon has made, and as such the only person who has not made a fairly valid case so far (other than Yagami who has still done more) is Revenant, and for that

-vote Revenant

[Light_Yagami]

Spoiler : Ganelon ISO :

I hardclaim Godfather.
Any counterclaims?

Claims To Be Mafia At Start Of Game.

Red Flag.

-vote Marshmallow Marshall

Statistically, MAFIA

Im Assuming Voting MM For The lols However Thats Technically True Statistically MM Is Almost Always Mafia

Hello there and welcome back to the site
this is definitely one of the high points in the sites history

Nothing Of Perticular Interest Here..

Still, MM is mafia.
hes always scum

Again Not Completely Wrong

I literally know this bc I am his godfather

Follows Up His Claim That He Is Godfather And He Knows MM Is Mafia Because He Is The Godfather

people who used to play ages back have started coming back, secondly we’ve had the first major update to the game in nearly 6 years
lastly, new management

Nothing Alignment Indicitive Here.

Guy kills people by writing their names in his notebook

Nothing Here Of Intererst

I know I wasn’t targeted. But I would’ve targeted someone I thought to be good at the game if I were mafia.
that being said, isn’t speculation like this anti-town? The lover/lovee may be outed this way

Brings Up Lover Here.

I would target Deathworlds, Bananacucho or Varcron, in that order

Tells His Targets If He Were Lover.

You’re right, for some reason I thought there was a lover in this setup but there isn’t one

Suddenly Thinks There Isnt A Lover In The Game.

So being loved does literally nothing?

IDK About That

Meaning, you die if the Heartbreaker dies but that’s is

Well Thats A True Game Mechanic.

Yeah was more thinking that there’s no reason for a heartbreaker target not to reveal.

The Lover Target If There Was One. Should Reveal I Agree Here. But If The Lover Didnt Target That Would Mean That Mafia Is Playing It Safe.

I think that’s fair, so it’s possible that a) they targeted someone at random, someone who generally doesn’t die in these games, or b) they didn’t target someone at all. I personally find this latter theory less likely because in hinges on the assumption that people would townread the loved player.
claiming to have been loved is an unverifiable claim.

Claims Its Unverifiable When It Clearly Is You Just Lynch The Lover/Lovee And It Proves It Either Way.

Yup you can lynch on day one
that being said, you are right that it’s difficult at the start of the game.
would contest the idea that it’s impossible however. As scum, I’m always terrified of d1.

Claims To Be Scared Of Day One As Scum.. Is This Him Slipping Again And Stating He Is Scum? Thus He Is Scared Of Today?

I agree ceko seems pretty towny thus far

Nothing Other Then A Basic Read Here.

No u

Scum Line.

thus far I think everyone has checked in? It’s looking like they didn’t target anyone whatsoever. That’s bizarre.

Says Everyone Has Checked In. But At That Point I Hadnt Checked In.

I believe there may be a second side to dws question wrt the lover. It involves the hypothetical scenario where the lover was roleblocked in which case he might be trying to fish the nurse out. Feel free to debate this potentially worthless idea

This Is Basically What I Said Later Echoing This. But When I Brought Up The Possibility That The Lover Might Have Been Role Blocked That Got me Scum Read But How?

I just realized something. The loved target actually gets told who fell in love with them, right? @Frinckles
might not be such a bad idea not to fall in love after all in that case.

This Is Also A Case For The Lover Not Moving. Mafia Possible Playing It Safe.

I just don’t think I’d trade a mafia player for a town as Mafia.

Again Brings Up What He Would Or Wouldnt Do As Mafia. Scum Indicitive In My Book.

Btw. Has anyone played a setup like this one before, or a setup where a Mafioso can choose to basicallly out himself to kill a townie?

Has that ever happened, and it so, under what circumstances?

I Have Not

I’m thinking it’s way too simple a conclusion - I would 100% never use my heartbreak ability in this setup unless a potentially extremely dangerous player were in the game (e.g Distorted); even then I’d first weigh the benefits. Distorted would basically become unlynchable. Yeah, that’s a nightmare if you’re scum.

i guess I see what DW was saying about loving a strong player now

Is Ganelon The Lover? He Seems To Be Focused On What He Would Do As Mafia Trying To Create The Illusion That He Isnt Mafia.

I guess there’s also the idea that you could use the lover as a sort of insurance to make sure a player never gets lynched.

Claims The Lover Role Can Be Played Kind Of Like An Insurance Policy

I think there is some merit to powerwolfing with a Heartbreaker

Are You Power Wolfing?

No uuuuuu
in all seriousness it just takes time for something retesting to show up. I’m going to discuss game mechanics for now until I see something truly interesting emerge (wrt scum slips)

I Think You Have Already Slipped More Then Enough.

BTW, we will have to seriously consider the possibly of a mass role claim fairly early on into the game. The mafia have a basically perfect investigator role.

He Is TPR Hunting Here Looking For A Mass Role Claim.

I guess my only read thus far is, Ceko is almost certainly town, but I do have one issue with this idea. It hinges on the notion that scum would appear to be too confident in their first game. As far as I can tell, Ceko is also fairly confident, though in a way that does not seem scummy. My question is mostly of academic value but, what’s the difference between e.g. Frinckles’ friend who played in the game where I was angel, and Ceko? There clearly does seem to be one but I cannot express it

lastly, and more generally, why can’t ceko be scum given the way he’s acting + the fact that he’s a new player? Note that I’m not saying he should be scumread, I’m just having some doubts about this theory. I.e logically I can see it, gut wise I have no feelings on the matter

Im Fairly Confident That This Smells Of TMI.

@Light_Yagami were you targeted by lover last night

Questions Me About Lover However As I Stated I Wasnt Targeted By Lover.

So literally nobody’s received any feedback?
Nice
They must’ve decided not to use their ability. A potentially wise decision seeing as it would’ve traded a Mafia for a Town

Seems Idk Like A Neutral Response But Upon Thinking And As Previously Mentiond He Could Have Had A Night Chat Where All This Was Discussed.

I’m not sure what I would’ve done but I would’ve considered doing this for sure.
The other possibility is that the escort roleblocked the Heartbreaker last night.

Now Claims To Not Know What He Would Had Done As Heart Breaker When Previously He Did Claim What He Would Have Done. Trying To Back Track On What He Previously Said.

yeah, powerwolfing with a Heartbreaker is literally impossible so ignore that idea, it’s garbage

Now Claims That Power Wolfing As Lover Wouldnt Be The Right Course Of Action. When Again Previously He Had Stated It Would Be An Interesting Strat.

Nurse heals/roleblocks

Responding To My Question Nothing Here.

So pretty much, the Heartbreaker target would almost certainly be confirmed town, unless a particularly ballsy mafia trying to pull a very dangerous FPS. I would see blinkskater doing that bc he is easily the least sane player on this website, but he’s not in this game. Realistically, I do not think the following players would do this:
-a Marshmallow Marshall
-b Varcron
unfortunately, the idea is mostly academic bc nobody has claimed to have been heartbroken yet.

so, it’s likely they simply didn’t target anyone.

I Guess It Seems Logical. But I Dont Trust His Slot.

-vote Revenant

sure

Shows A Willingness To Jump On Any Train.

why are you skipping? lol

Knows Damn Well I Always Put My Vote On Skip Day One. This Question Was Redundent.

Never, ever skip

This Person Is Clearly Blood Thirsty For Any Lynch.

-vote Light_Yagami

this reminds me A LOT of your scum game in the mod
Skipping is inherently anti-town.

This Isnt The Mod.

Speaking of which, we’ve yet to run down the numbers. How much time do we have until MyLo/LyLo? I genuinely have no idea, those are important things that need to be discussed, much like a hypothetical mass role claim

Again Looking At The Idea Of A Mass Role Claim. AKA TPR Hunting.

We have two days till MyLo and you want to skip? lol

Im Not Gonna Keep Repeting My Self By Answering The Same Question Over Again.

Skipping is a terrible idea. Our power roles can get killed that way. No way I will ever agree to that.

??? IDK I Dont Think Its A Bad Idea At All..

I shall be a dissident, proudly waving my flag of defiance in the face of overwhelming opposition
/rant over
in all seriousness
this day has sucked massively
so
After Kira I will seriously start looking at Renegade and Varcron

Claims The Day Sucked And Apparently Im The Top Scum Read At This Junction And Will Be For Some Time.

why are you trying so hard to discuss who the mafia might’ve targeted?
isnt that very wifomy?

Why Were You Discussing It First? Again Trying To Make Us Forget What He Already Did.

disagree, nothing relevant has happened today, save for the fact that we found out the Heartbreaker hasn’t targeted anyone, and (potentially) that Ceko is town. By most d1 standards, this has been pretty lackluster.

After Being Afraid Of Day 1 Now Tries Again To Back Track Saying Day 1 Isnt Relevent..

why not? afraid you’ll slip?? :P

I Think This Is Another Nod At Ganelon Being Mafia/Scum.

You got any useful input?
right now you’re just a weirder, easier to understand Efe.
would not be opposed to lynching you at all rn.

Again Willing To Just Lynch Anyone.

perhaps, but in many of the games I’ve played, there’s usually a total shitstorm at EoD at lynch time. right now nothing that’s happened would indicate such a thing. because the right people haven’t been pushed yet

Who Are The Right People?

I don’t really trust deathworlds, his play could be a scum gambit to put the TPRs, especially seeing as nobody has been heartbroken.

Here He Says He Doesnt Trust @deathworlds . But Later Starts Taking His Side.

I don’t see anyone making a fuss about him being voted.

??

I did not even know this was possible haha

Irrelevent

but yeah, I’m also cool with Revenant. Just that, I feel kira is scummier than revenant.

Still Pushes The Kira Is Scummier Then Thou Narritive.

Fair enough.

Irrelevent

Hypothetically, if DW is a mafia role that receives feedback when they successfully perform their night action, if he was roleblocked, he might want to find out who the escort that roleblocked him is. He could do this by asking ‘who do you think they would target’ -> as that could lead to the nurse accidentally slipping

Here Again Appears To Be TPR Hunting

the issue is that the target knows the identity of the Heartbreaker

Claims An Issue With The Role Heartbreaker. I Wonder If He Is Heartbreaker.

I would’ve otherwise agreed with you

Ignore

Tbh I don’t trust anyone here. I only trust Ceko, and I don’t trust him 100% either.
i like Ceko, it looks like he’s gonna be a good player. I think the question of whether Ceko HAS to be Town has some merit and needs to be discussed. I feel like he should be but I couldn’t explain why I feel that way, and I’m not 100% I’m right

Now I See A Pattern Here Of Him Protecting Ceko As New Player Cant Be Scum. Most Likely TMI Or Scum Covering For Scum.

No, He Is Kira! He is Justice!! Death To The False Gods!!!

Lets Again Think About This Real Hard Before We Go Lynching Me.

I know blinkskater would try to pull off some weird FPS as either alignment, but he’s not in this game.

Then Why Bring Up Players That Arent In The Game Repetedly Are You Doing The Same Gambit As Blink Are You Trying To Tell Us Something?

As town I would most probably trade a town for a mafia. Especially on d1

Okay..

@Stealthbomber16 is Light scum this game?
you said he’s more passive aggressive as scum

Mentions Yet Another Player Not In The Game Looking For Help. However Im Fairly Confident You Are Scum At This Point In My Iso

I Would Lynch Light_Yagami, Revenant, Varcron And DeathWorlds, In That Order.

Okay So Apparently Im Top Scum Read Still At This Junction.

Renegade also looks pretty scummy, looking back.

Says Now Renegade Is Scummy There Cant Be 4 Scum?

I can’t find anything that looks like a role claim but I wasn’t really expecting to, so...

Its There Ur Just Not Looking Hard Enough.

I was wondering the same thing

Hmmmm This Was Interesting.. Perhaps A Nod To Scum Buddy Here.

No, you’re scum because you’ve been pretty apathetic. You haven’t provided much and seem quite unwilling to commit to a stance set players/things/etc - see that post I linked

Is Apathy A Scum Tell?

You should always be eager for a lynch.
Embrace the lynch!
lynch for the lynch god

Here IS Where I Hard Call Him Out As Scum For Saiyan That Line.

Not sure I agree with that, although he isn’t someone I would currently want to lynch rn

Okay?

I prefer to push people hard to get them to talk.

Hows That Working Out For Ya..

The reason I’m pushing Yagami is because he’s not making sense. Usually as town he makes sense, even if it’s his own kind of sense. When you can’t follow Yagamis logic he’s 100% scum

I also disagree rather strongly with the notion that Yagami would be a strong town asset, and I think I’m not the only one who would say so. Mm, perhaps, although I haven’t pushed Mm (certainly considered it bc he’s not done shit this game).

I also cannot get three kills in one night if I understand the setup correctly (assuming I’m mafia). AFAIK theres only one kill per night, although the game doesn’t really go into detail about that.

Oh I Make Sense I Guess You Just Dont Understand And PPL Fear What They Dont Understand/.

The thing is that the heartbreakers target knows the heartbreakers identity.

Yep And You Have Made That Point Over And Over Are You The Heartbreaker?

i was more thinking that each mafia member has his own nightkill or something

Had You Read The Set Up Ud Know That Wasnt True Or Are You Just Spreading Misinformation?

I should be, but who knows

We Will See About This I Guess..

I think Kira is literally claiming to be a TPR if I understand what he's saying.

If I Were Claiming That You Are Scum For Pointing It Out..

would not be the first time so it wouldn't be too shocking if that's what was happening

If What Was Happening?

meh

-vote Varcron

Here He Changes His Vote With No Real Rhyme Or Reason.

I'm honestly waiting for Kira to reveal as Mayor at this point

There Isnt A Mayor In This Setup.

I think we should do a massclaim tomorrow.
but definitely not today

Why Not Today What Makes Tomorrow A Better Day? Again Feels Like TPR Hunting.

I don't either
I'm inclined to believe Yagami is town and that Varcron is scum whiteknighting him.

Why The Sudden Change?

well, I'll say we're definitely looking at a good d1 now

What Do You Mean Here Elaborate.

MM, I wanted to scumread you, go away

You Wanted To Scum Read Him? Why Arent You If Thats The Case? Is It Because You Have Trouble Scum Reading PPL As Scum?

@Varcron when Light was pushed there was an incredible amount of resistance to his lynch, i’d hardly call that “getting teamed on”. rather, it would seem to be that there’s too many people defending him for no real reason. and I’m saying this as someone who now thinks he may be town.

Again Why Did You Suddenly Change Your Tune?

btw, I will put the post where you stated that Yagami is a valuable asset in my signature.
There aren’t many facts in the game of mafia, but it’s a FACT that Yagami was not, and is not a valuable asset to town.
i don’t mean this in a mean (heh) way to you Varcron but it’s just... lol

You Might Think Im Not An Asset. IDK How Everyone Else Feels About That. Seems Like Trying To Cast Doubt In My Abilities.

Varcron has been pretty scum on the whole
that being said, a part of me thinks that he would never have said the things he said about Kira as scum.

Now U Flip Flop On Varcron?

Mm is giving me really weird vibes this game. It’s almost as if you act towny when interacting with some people and scummy when interacting with others

Casts Shade On MM..

[Light_Yagami]

BRB Gotta Another Fool To Do That 2.. Im A Man Of My Word.

[BananaCucho]

Kira, I'll read through that ISO but when you start it out by calling out an obvious troll post like "I hardclaim godfather" as a red flag, you know there's a lot of confirmation bias going on

[Light_Yagami]

However Imma Take A Short Rest From This Because ISOs Are Exhausting.

[Light_Yagami]

Kira, I'll read through that ISO but when you start it out by calling out an obvious troll post like "I hardclaim godfather" as a red flag, you know there's a lot of confirmation bias going on

Let Me Put It This Way Ive Seen Games Where Scum Straight Up Say They Are Scum And They Get A Pass Because The Post Is Troll Like. So I Dont Over Look Anything That Could Potentially Be Considered A Scum Tell..

[BananaCucho]

You know guys when you ISO someone you don't have to copy paste and comment on EVERY post lol. Just the relevant ones