S-FM 220: Empire

[ika]

IKa, I want to know if you had a reason this game for asking people to come to you, instead of you coming to them. Can't across scum for me.

i felt out of place in the game and i needed someont to jumpstart me.

when silver was kinda out there and not gun ho on me it did kinda take a jab at my motivation cus i was hoping to use her an an anchor but i didnt knwo what to exaclyty say at the time

and i also got off work so i was kinda tired

[ika]

She also helped a great deal in having SJ suicide into you.

she did nothing to influance that. sj already suspect matt ot be nutral on n1

[Calix]

I'm going to take a deep breath before I yell. Breath in, breath out:

DUDE, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO START VOTING YOU. YOU'RE TOWN. THE IDEA IS TO PROVE TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE TOWN, NOT SHIFT VOTES ON YOURSELF GIVEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE TOWN. PLEASE ABANDON THIS HORRENDOUS STRATEGY WHICH HAS FAILED IN MULTIPLE GAMES NOW. IT'S FINE TO HAVE FUN, BUT WHEN YOU TANK EVERY GAME AS TOWN, IT MAKES THE OTHER TOWNIES NOT HAVE FUN ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ACT SUPER SCUMMY AND END UP FLIPPING TOWN EACH TIME!

SP, please man -- for the love of God. You seem like a nice person -- please just take this criticism to heart and stop doing this. There's almost never any good reason to act scummy to generate votes on yourself as a Town member. Please just do this for me or Calix or Unknown or anyone else who appreciates sensible Town play. No more deliberately scummy shit for discussion purposes. I'm begging you...

UPDATE: You tried something very similar in BFN and it failed miserably there too. There's really no reason ever to make yourself seem scummy, especially when you have issues being mislynched in games to begin with...

This wins the thread.

If you're town, you don't want people spending a load of time talking about you. Why would you? You already know your alignment.

[SilverWolf]

you have a hard time? god you should of seen me downstairs, i was clentching my fist constanly in frustration that i had to possibly maipulate you. but when i started to figre you were neutral it gave me an even bigger hell cus i was like "well fuck silver is gonna have to kill me but she wont wnt to"

How did you figure I was neutral?

Thanks BTW for the kind words, you are probably biased and I don't care about MVP. I had a lot of fun this game overall and loved being the only one able to kill, lol.

[Sino]

she did nothing to influance that. sj already suspect matt ot be nutral on n1

Well, i guess spamming "MZ is the obvious neutral" also helps.

[ika]

I don't actually give a shit about the MVP. I had the scum pinned down by Day 2 despite being blackmailed. That's objectively true.

I don't need people defending or throwing shade there, there's nothing to discuss.

actualy, you called silverwolf town still when she was the neutral so you didnt peg all the scums

and befroe you argue about wincons, scum is someone who does not have a town wincon

[ika]

Well, i guess spamming "MZ is the obvious neutral" also helps.

no, it didnt. he was gonna sucide you or matt. i think he banked on matt being neutral from day 1 and neevr changed form there.

i expected him to kill you and ingnore neutral cus that would of done the most damage

[Calix]

Is there a scum chat?

[DarknessB]

Is there a scum chat?

Beyond Gyrlander's PMs with the scum team?

[ika]

How did you figure I was neutral?

Thanks BTW for the kind words, you are probably biased and I don't care about MVP. I had a lot of fun this game overall and loved being the only one able to kill, lol.

ill tell you in private i want to keep my neutral tells to myself.

but the thing that did sand out was when unknwon called out the convo being fake cus i was faking mine enitrely so when he said both i has an idea you could be neutral if true.

i will say one thign that was obvious is you stayed away form all neutral dicussions

[Sino]

no, it didnt. he was gonna sucide you or matt. i think he banked on matt being neutral from day 1 and neevr changed form there.

i expected him to kill you and ingnore neutral cus that would of done the most damage

Probably, yeah.

Would you have blackmailed me if you had survived ?

[ika]

Is there a scum chat?

Beyond Gyrlander's PMs with the scum team?

yes there is one.

ill release it if @yzb25 and @SuperJack dont object

[ika]

Probably, yeah.

Would you have blackmailed me if you had survived ?

i actualy bmed silverwolf to do a sex scene in thred with me

[secondpassing]

I am sorry. I will attempt to have my mind focus on the broader picture of looking townie as well as catching scum instead of solely focusing on catching scums. That way my mind will not overlook the duty I have when playing in a game. I am not confident but I will try my best.

[Calix]

i actualy bmed silverwolf to do a sex scene in thred with me

Lovely.

Found new nightmare fodder

[Sino]

i actualy bmed silverwolf to do a sex scene in thred with me

That absolutely wouldn't have made you obvious to everyone, lol.

[DarknessB]

I am sorry. I will attempt to have my mind focus on the broader picture of looking townie as well as catching scum instead of solely focusing on catching scums. That way my mind will not overlook the duty I have when playing in a game. I am not confident but I will try my best.

It might help to read Helz's guide. You have three objectives as Town:
1. Prove to everyone else that you're Town.
2. Figure out who the scum are.
3. Persuade everyone else to vote with you on #2.

You actually are quite good at #2 (reading people) when you put your mind to it, but you are brutal with #1 (i.e. you get yourself mislynched constantly) and therefore, don't really get a chance to do #3 (push your scum reads). You really just need to come off like Mr. Mega Contributor and Mr. Mega Townie to have a chance in these games, SP. Especially because you think in a somewhat different way than others, your primary goal in games as Town should be avoiding a mislynch to start.

[Sino]

Btw Calix, it's hard to tell, but i really hope you had fun D1, the game was over afterwards anyways.

I liked the trolling part.

[SilverWolf]

i actualy bmed silverwolf to do a sex scene in thred with me

OMG-I actually am surprised you didn't target me right away, but that's probably because I wasn't really going after you at all this game like I should have.

[Calix]

Btw Calix, it's hard to tell, but i really hope you had fun D1, the game was over afterwards anyways.

I liked the trolling part.

I really want to know how DWs reacts to all of this, lol.

[DarknessB]

I really want to know how DWs reacts to all of this, lol.

Deathtunnels / Tunnelworlds? Yeah, I imagine he's not thrilled at the d1 mislynch, lol.

[ika]

That absolutely wouldn't have made you obvious to everyone, lol.

you relaize if she killed anyone but yzb or me its a 2v2v1 split and that town litarly can not lynch the neutral without argubly gamethrowing (cus then scum wins) and that silverwolf would most likely not vote based on the fact that she needs me dead and would not risk it.

even if you jailed me yzb would then jsut take roleblocker and roleblock you so we would of had a stalmate becasue silver needs me dead and you indfently jailing me stops her from winning

edit: i asked if we got 50% would we win outright and the answer was yes so town best intrest would to be no-lynching

[Sino]

I really want to know how DWs reacts to all of this, lol.

I was really hoping to be able to outlive the infamous Calix death tunnel without having to claim by having town lynching deathworlds instead of me :P

[secondpassing]

It might help to read Helz's guide. You have three objectives as Town:
1. Prove to everyone else that you're Town.
2. Figure out who the scum are.
3. Persuade everyone else to vote with you on #2.

You actually are quite good at #2 (reading people) when you put your mind to it, but you are brutal with #1 (i.e. you get yourself mislynched constantly) and therefore, don't really get a chance to do #3 (push your scum reads). You really just need to come off like Mr. Mega Contributor and Mr. Mega Townie to have a chance in these games, SP. Especially because you think in a somewhat different way than others, your primary goal in games as Town should be avoiding a mislynch to start.

T.T Don't go breaking my heart~

I mean, yes sir.

[Sino]

you relaize if she killed anyone but yzb or me its a 2v2v1 split and that town litarly can not lynch the neutral without argubly gamethrowing (cus then scum wins) and that silverwolf would most likely not vote based on the fact that she needs me dead and would not risk it.

even if you jailed me yzb would then jsut take roleblocker and roleblock you so we would of had a stalmate becasue silver needs me dead and you indfently jailing me stops her from winning

edit: i asked if we got 50% would we win outright and the answer was yes so town best intrest would to be no-lynching

Yes, but what i had planned was for the Assassin to work with me, by me jailing and killing one of the scum, and having the assassin killing the other one, town would've won this regardless.

[DarknessB]

Yes, but what i had planned was for the Assassin to work with me, by me jailing and killing one of the scum, and having the assassin killing the other one, town would've won this regardless.

@Sino , please no more OMGUSes. You had one of the scummiest Day 1s on record in terms of all the reactionary play. You need to try to avoid taking stuff personally and scumreading people for scumreading you. OMGUS is a major scum tell and I think the only reason you didn't get lynched was because of the whole "too scummy to be scum" narrative as well as your role claim.

[SilverWolf]

Yes, but what i had planned was for the Assassin to work with me, by me jailing and killing one of the scum, and having the assassin killing the other one, town would've won this regardless.

I had no idea this was your plan but you leave out that the Empress can roleblock you and is also night immune as long as the Emperor is alive.

[Sino]

@Sino , please no more OMGUSes. You had one of the scummiest Day 1s on record in terms of all the reactionary play. You need to try to avoid taking stuff personally and scumreading people for scumreading you. OMGUS is a major scum tell and I think the only reason you didn't get lynched was because of the whole "too scummy to be scum" narrative as well as your role claim.

Yeah, i'll work on that, i still had Unknown, MZ and ika townreading me back then

[SilverWolf]

@Sino, please no more OMGUSes. You had one of the scummiest Day 1s on record in terms of all the reactionary play. You need to try to avoid taking stuff personally and scumreading people for scumreading you. OMGUS is a major scum tell and I think the only reason you didn't get lynched was because of the whole "too scummy to be scum" narrative as well as your role claim.

role claim was the only thing that saved him for me

[ika]

Yes, but what i had planned was for the Assassin to work with me, by me jailing and killing one of the scum, and having the assassin killing the other one, town would've won this regardless.

silverowlf beat me to it but ya. empress is night immune by default as long as im alive and if i got jailed you would be indfently roleblocked

@Sino , please no more OMGUSes. You had one of the scummiest Day 1s on record in terms of all the reactionary play. You need to try to avoid taking stuff personally and scumreading people for scumreading you. OMGUS is a major scum tell and I think the only reason you didn't get lynched was because of the whole "too scummy to be scum" narrative as well as your role claim.

^^^^^^

[ika]

Yeah, i'll work on that, i still had Unknown, MZ and ika townreading me back then

realzie i was scum who knew you were town and most people saved you base don the fact of your cliam.

if you claimed cit you prob would of been the lynch becasue i would of compermized voted you

[Sino]

I had no idea this was your plan but you leave out that the Empress can roleblock you and is also night immune as long as the Emperor is alive.

In that case, i would've learned their identities, and lynched the Emperess the next day.

[DarknessB]

Yeah, i'll work on that, i still had Unknown, MZ and ika townreading me back then

I think it's partially focusing on being productive even if you get voted. I understand it's stressful as a newer player to get pressured but often times what makes the difference between being lynched or not is how you respond to pressure. You want to be scumhunting constantly and regardless of whether anyone scumreads you.

Honestly, someone will scumread you in every game (not just you, everyone -- people are rarely universally townread). You should focus on continuing to be productive, not taking it too personally, and developing the confidence to maintain your composure even under pressure. That will help you avoid the trap of reactionary play. You know you're not scum and you just have to show it to the Town through your positive contributions and reads.

[ika]

In that case, i would've learned their identities, and lynched the Emperess the next day.

but then i blckamil you into claiming you were roleblocked

also i could of jsut blackmailed a townie to not be able to vote after calix death cus gyr said "i cant stop someone form posting" so he basicly did allow me to stop epople form voteing if i wanted and in that case town has no majorit and its at best 2v2 split

[MattZed]

Yeah, i'll work on that, i still had Unknown, MZ and ika townreading me back then

This. There's always room for improvement, and I think Sino realizes where. But in general, if a town is being scumread, it's the fault of the reader. Town should usually strive to make themselves as obvious as they can to their teammates, but I wouldn't look at this as a main focus for how to improve. The best way for someone to townread you is to find a scum and get them lynched after going after them aggressively. If you want to be townread, improve your scumreading skills, and then people will naturally read you as town.

[Sino]

but then i blckamil you into claiming you were roleblocked

also i could of jsut blackmailed a townie to not be able to vote after calix death cus gyr said "i cant stop someone form posting" so he basicly did allow me to stop epople form voteing if i wanted and in that case town has no majorit and its at best 2v2 split

Yes, but what i had planned was for the Assassin to work with me, by me jailing and killing one of the scum, and having the assassin killing the other one, town would've won this regardless.

I would've jailed you the night before, no blackmails.

[Calix]

This. There's always room for improvement, and I think Sino realizes where. But in general, if a town is being scumread, it's the fault of the reader. Town should usually strive to make themselves as obvious as they can to their teammates, but I wouldn't look at this as a main focus for how to improve. The best way for someone to townread you is to find a scum and get them lynched after going after them aggressively. If you want to be townread, improve your scumreading skills, and then people will naturally read you as town.

Townies need to focus on proper scum-hunting above all else.

If you are scum-hunting well, you will inevitably be town-read.

It does not matter if you are wrong in your pushes because your sincerity should be apparent to the players.

It's the WAY that you push people that matters.

[ika]

This. There's always room for improvement, and I think Sino realizes where. But in general, if a town is being scumread, it's the fault of the reader. Town should usually strive to make themselves as obvious as they can to their teammates, but I wouldn't look at this as a main focus for how to improve. The best way for someone to townread you is to find a scum and get them lynched after going after them aggressively. If you want to be townread, improve your scumreading skills, and then people will naturally read you as town.

its moreso the player the the reader.

a scum cna make any read town or scum so its not them being wrong about it, its them being informed. the player is at fault for not playing town or not town enought o conivnce others.

now if you have stubborn people (like sino in fringe) then i could argue its the reader. but ingerneal i would aruge its the player

[ika]

I would've jailed you the night before, no blackmails.

i would fake a blackmail then.

would be entertaing for me to do no vowles

[DarknessB]

This. There's always room for improvement, and I think Sino realizes where. But in general, if a town is being scumread, it's the fault of the reader. Town should usually strive to make themselves as obvious as they can to their teammates, but I wouldn't look at this as a main focus for how to improve. The best way for someone to townread you is to find a scum and get them lynched after going after them aggressively. If you want to be townread, improve your scumreading skills, and then people will naturally read you as town.

This is absolute insanity -- there are many things that Townies do to get themselves scumread. Mafia is also a game of majority opinions carrying the day. If a majority of players reads a Town player as scummy (i.e. enough for a lynch), then that Town player is probably doing something wrong and needs to change that behavior. You can't blame a majority of the game (excluding scum) for misreading someone, lol.

In contrast, this is a very good point. The best way to get Town cred is to lynch scum so working on your scumhunting skills will get you more Town cred. You need to be useful and help the Town weed out the scum.

[MattZed]

This is absolute insanity -- there are many things that Townies do to get themselves scumread. Mafia is also a game of majority opinions carrying the day. If a majority of players reads a Town player as scummy (i.e. enough for a lynch), then that Town player is probably doing something wrong and needs to change that behavior. You can't blame a majority of the game (excluding scum) for misreading someone, lol.

Well, no. If the game were as simple as "you should know how to do things that get your townread," then the game would always end up with inexperienced players, who act more scummy, getting lynched first, and the more experienced players, who act townier, get to the endgame. And yet, this really isn't what happens, nor should it be. Town should always been looking at motivation and information gaps, which shine through regardless of skill. An inexperienced town often OMGUSes because they feel they're obvtown, (after all, their rolecard said they were town) and thus instantly scumreads anyone who goes after them, because they're distorting the clearly obvious fact that the newbie is town. The difference is in asking why the OMGUS is happening. Is it because they're afraid of pressure, or do they truly think the person applying pressure is scum?

[Sino]

An inexperienced town often OMGUSes because they feel they're obvtown, (after all, their rolecard said they were town) and thus instantly scumreads anyone who goes after them, because they're distorting the clearly obvious fact that the newbie is town.

[SilverWolf]

This. There's always room for improvement, and I think Sino realizes where. But in general, if a town is being scumread, it's the fault of the reader. Town should usually strive to make themselves as obvious as they can to their teammates, but I wouldn't look at this as a main focus for how to improve. The best way for someone to townread you is to find a scum and get them lynched after going after them aggressively. If you want to be townread, improve your scumreading skills, and then people will naturally read you as town.

No, it isn't the fault of the reader because as the uninformed majority, you have no clue unless you are a PR or scum who the town is. If someone acts scummy, they will be jumped on no matter what out of sheer paranoia. This is actually one way I read people as town because I townhunt as well as scumhunt in games. If someone is really paranoid, it's a townread for me usually. If someone is acting scummy for whatever reason, I will usually vote them and push them to get a read on them. I also look if someone is willing to re-evaluate their reads. It is very easy for town to get defensive when scumread because they know they are town and are offended others don't see it. However, I do agree that the best thing to do if you are suspected is scumhunt and give reads that look like you are genuinely scumhunting and figuring out the game and answer questions directed at you. My biggest fault is getting defensive and emotional when pushed for what I consider bad reasons. Many times I've caught scum doing it to push a mislynch on me. Other times, it's town reacting to less than stellar play on my part because town doesn't have much to go on unless a PR says something so they have to jump on these things. It's isn't there fault unless they are scum doing it. As town in that situation, I have to up my game and show I'm town by pushing my scumreads and trying to sort people. As scum, I have to fake it effectively.

[Calix]

On this note, I'm going to take my leave.

#PTB

[Sino]

On this note, I'm going to take my leave.

#PTB

Please stay, hosts can fight against you always dying N1.

[MattZed]

Please stay, hosts can fight against you always dying N1.

#MW1

[Sino]

Please stay, hosts can fight against you always dying N1.

Or at least, read the games, comment on the setups, ect

#Never Unlucky

[SilverWolf]

Well, no. If the game were as simple as "you should know how to do things that get your townread," then the game would always end up with inexperienced players, who act more scummy, getting lynched first, and the more experienced players, who act townier, get to the endgame. And yet, this really isn't what happens, nor should it be. Town should always been looking at motivation and information gaps, which shine through regardless of skill. An inexperienced town often OMGUSes because they feel they're obvtown, (after all, their rolecard said they were town) and thus instantly scumreads anyone who goes after them, because they're distorting the clearly obvious fact that the newbie is town. The difference is in asking why the OMGUS is happening. Is it because they're afraid of pressure, or do they truly think the person applying pressure is scum?

Here's what it looked like Sino was doing and what I sometimes do and see scum doing. It's how he reacted to the votes on him. He immediately townread those who backed off him, but scumread every single person who pushed him and/or voted them back. He also looked like he was buddying unknown who knows him well by townreading his vote regardless.

Yes, he was town doing it but scum does this all the time as well.

[DarknessB]

On this note, I'm going to take my leave.

#PTB

Goodbye, Watermeloann?

[SilverWolf]

Bye Calix.