S-FM 245 Which Witch is Which? - GYRLANDER -

[Distorted]

Both MM and Ozy have "confirmed" soviet as town. so with that being said, I think him being either 1 of their partners is a strong chance.

[Soviet_Love]

I've been helping town all game. I'm a cit. Uhhh idk check my meta from last game when I was in a spat with MM. I think our reads aren't based on that much. It's hard to remember who says what. I get general feelings on who is talking. But I think the most important things are peoples role claims, and what they said their night action claims were.

You think that of the 3, me, mag, and noz, that im the scum? Oopf.

[Soviet_Love]

One thing - if we lynch today, and lynch wrong, we'll be at 3-2 in the night then 2-2 tomorrow (unless distorted' protect role works some magic). If we don't lynch, then we'll be at 3-2 tomorrow, and then either there will only be 2 TPR's remaining or only 2 cits remaining. That would ensure we lynch correctly tomorrow.

[Distorted]

I've been helping town all game. I'm a cit. Uhhh idk check my meta from last game when I was in a spat with MM. I think our reads aren't based on that much. It's hard to remember who says what. I get general feelings on who is talking. But I think the most important things are peoples role claims, and what they said their night action claims were.

You think that of the 3, me, mag, and noz, that im the scum? Oopf.

Last game you were very passive, didn't post much ect. I pointed that out and it was never answered. Also - you have 0 reads on anyone...that is what is a HUGE red flag. usually when scum get pressued (especially when they have been kicking back as the strongest town lead) they won't have very good leads on anything because they have not been focusing on reading people; since that takes a lot of time and effort. You even stated last page yourself how much work that takes, OBVIOUSLY you have NOT been following the individual reads on people this game if it is really that much work for you to come up with basic reads on people.

[Ganelon]

LMAO, if it's 2v2 we're fucked tomorrow. We need to lynch correctly today or Lynch tomorrow.

[Ganelon]

I'm gonna do an ISO on MM. BRB.

[Distorted]

One thing - if we lynch today, and lynch wrong, we'll be at 3-2 in the night then 2-2 tomorrow (unless distorted' protect role works some magic). If we don't lynch, then we'll be at 3-2 tomorrow, and then either there will only be 2 TPR's remaining or only 2 cits remaining. That would ensure we lynch correctly tomorrow.

Pressure starts going towards you and Ozy and both go quickly into citing "no lynch" to be fair Ozy has been most of the time SINCE the rolecall. Instead of just putting out numbers, put out reads. we all know the numbers now, repeating "false lynch we lose" sounds more like a scare tactic at this point to prevent people from lynching or voting. it is keeping pressure low, which is exactly what scum wants.

[Distorted]

LMAO, if it's 2v2 we're fucked tomorrow. We need to lynch correctly today or Lynch tomorrow.

if MM was indeed roleblocked, that puts no additional information for tomorrow but a dead town and pretty much 1 wrong vote and evils win.
No additional info other than a dead town because they can RB me and kill another TPR (if MM really is mason leader, itl be him). leaving it in the exact same scenario we are in now, just without a town. NOT WORTH IT. I would rather have more town opinions at this point than 1 less town opinion tomorrow and a HUGE chance to fuck up if some1 decides to randomly vote some1. you can say "yeah then they will get lynched", not if the 2 witches speedvote behind that.

[Ganelon]

Fuck, ignore this post. Meant to do an ISO but I didn't select enough messages.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

@Magoroth , @Soviet_Love , @Noz_Bugz , @Marshmallow Marshall , @Distorted

Welcome to my humble abode!
Sit down, sons, and let me tell you a story.

This story based on a claim that a player named Marshmallow Marshall did.
What was it, Ozy, you ask? What did he claim and gives us a clue?
Well, my children. He claimed that he was role blocked and that he is a TPR. Yes, that is correct - he did that.
But Ozy, you ask, what about it?

Well, let us think both scenarios through for a second, ok?

If he WAS roleblocked, then that would mean he is confirmed TPR, since no escort would lie about things. Which then means that Distorted is evil! And who is Distorted’s allie? WELL NOZ OFCOURSE!
If he WASN’T roleblocked, then that means that he is confirmed SCUM and thus Distorted is the good guy. But who is Marshmallow Marshalls allie, you ask? WELL NOZ OF COURSE!

So, children, please. Let us get here together tonight to burn Noz to ashes!

Bullshit. The RBer was probably a Witch. Distorted doesn't claim Escort, it doesn't mean there is no RBer. And I'm starting to think we should burn you to ashes.

[Soviet_Love]

Pressure starts going towards you and Ozy and both go quickly into citing "no lynch" to be fair Ozy has been most of the time SINCE the rolecall. Instead of just putting out numbers, put out reads. we all know the numbers now, repeating "false lynch we lose" sounds more like a scare tactic at this point to prevent people from lynching or voting. it is keeping pressure low, which is exactly what scum wants.

O man you're hammerin' this one home. I need to go back and multiquote people.

Up until I was under the scope, my most towny reads were you and MM. I gave my listing a few times. When you noted MM is less aggressive than the past I think that's true also, and is cause for concern (the other 2 games he was doing what you are doing now, but he'd do it repeatedly and to almost everyone).

[OzyWho]

I want to make one point before I call it a night. Let's see if we all can agree on it.

@Distorted , if you feel that soviet might be evil of the Citizen group, then can we agree to abstain for Day2 to be safe?
Because I won't lynch anyone from TPR group - another night is needed for it.
---
@Magoroth , @Soviet_Love @Noz_Bugz , @Marshmallow Marshall
Can we agree to Abstain for Day2 and hope there is no Arsonist+GF witch duo? Because I think we can't find the evil TPR claim, while Distorted thinks that Noz might not be the evil citizen claim.
There is no need to lynch Day2 if we are uncertain!

[Soviet_Love]

I dont see you wanting to lynch - but you seem to have decided to "not talk about things" until tomorrow. Well you are the only 1 so far with the mentality that there will be no lynch today and basing your theories off of that. A no lynch right now puts it at if 1 person votes wrong, it is GG. plus we would be losing another town opinion or possibly 2 people and ending the game tonight.

There has been a lot of mention of an Arson, that concerns me.

im the one who keeps bringing up there might be an arson, numb nuts

[Marshmallow Marshall]

You based you trusting a sheriff lead on magoroth due to it being 10% chance. Yet TPR lynch is 50% chance and citizen is 33% chance for success. If you are indeed a TPR, pushing at the TPRs would be a smarter move from you since you KNOW there can only be 1 - limiting to the people you need to look at as me and MM.

The citizen group you have Soviet, who could be playing a very elaborate scum game, Magoroth, which u even state 10% evil (if u are sheriff), which could potentially raise with the misdirection witch, and Noz, some1 every1 has pushed and wanted to lynch and is pretty much just afk. He really did not even seem phased he was getting pushed, making me believe stronger he is a bad lynch.

There's no misdirection witch. It's a killer witch and a cryomage, or whatever it is called (consort). You are growing more town-like, distorted. I wonder if we should simply push in the TPRs section. After all, I know I'm not scum, and I know you're very probably not scum (if you are I HATE YOU!!!). In fact, I think the one I should ISO is OzyWho.

[Distorted]

im the one who keeps bringing up there might be an arson, numb nuts

why cant you give a basic character reference on what has been going on. From how active you are I just dont understand how you have no "vibes" towards anyone with a reason to explain why.

[Distorted]

There's no misdirection witch. It's a killer witch and a cryomage, or whatever it is called (consort). You are growing more town-like, distorted. I wonder if we should simply push in the TPRs section. After all, I know I'm not scum, and I know you're very probably not scum (if you are I HATE YOU!!!). In fact, I think the one I should ISO is OzyWho.

I pushed at Ozy and Soviet jumped in and started accusing me, which is 30 minutes after he said he needed to think. he was lurking and it was literally within 3 minutes of me pushing ozy he is defending him. So, honestly I am fine with either.

@Soviet_Love If me and MM are your most town reads, why not question Ozy or allow me to without interfearing? better yet, why not put a vote there? Your 2 most town reads and 1 scum are in a group of 3 and u don't push the 3rd. instead, you still question the person he "investigated", but wouldent that make even more evidence for a lynch on Ozy?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I want to make one point before I call it a night. Let's see if we all can agree on it.

@Distorted , if you feel that soviet might be evil of the Citizen group, then can we agree to abstain for Day2 to be safe?
Because I won't lynch anyone from TPR group - another night is needed for it.
---
@Magoroth , @Soviet_Love @Noz_Bugz , @Marshmallow Marshall
Can we agree to Abstain for Day2 and hope there is no Arsonist+GF witch duo? Because I think we can't find the evil TPR claim, while Distorted thinks that Noz might not be the evil citizen claim.
There is no need to lynch Day2 if we are uncertain!

We won't be more certain of anything D3. The only thing we'll lose is a townie. The RBer will destroy leads. I do not agree. Also, you seem wanting to push a lot against lynching today. Would you be relying on Noz to just not vote and not do shit so you can win? You didn't even want to rolecall. It's not pro-town at all.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I pushed at Ozy and Soviet jumped in and started accusing me, which is 30 minutes after he said he needed to think. he was lurking and it was literally within 3 minutes of me pushing ozy he is defending him. So, honestly I am fine with either.

@Soviet_Love If me and MM are your most town reads, why not question Ozy or allow me to without interfearing? better yet, why not put a vote there? Your 2 most town reads and 1 scum are in a group of 3 and u don't push the 3rd. instead, you still question the person he "investigated", but wouldent that make even more evidence for a lynch on Ozy?

You really would be ok with a SL lynch?? I disagree, especially since we're TPRs. I really think Ozy is the best lynch today.

[Distorted]

-vote Ozywho

This as well is with intent on a lynch.

[Distorted]

You really would be ok with a SL lynch?? I disagree, especially since we're TPRs. I really think Ozy is the best lynch today.

I would be MORE comfoortable with an Ozy, but i wanted to see how Ozy would react when I pushed at Soviet. Since Soviet jumped to Ozy, wanted to see if Ozy would do the same. He did not at all address my information on Soviet even after i voted him, instead went to pushing for no lynch further; and now trying to recruit everyone else to do the same.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

One thing - if we lynch today, and lynch wrong, we'll be at 3-2 in the night then 2-2 tomorrow (unless distorted' protect role works some magic). If we don't lynch, then we'll be at 3-2 tomorrow, and then either there will only be 2 TPR's remaining or only 2 cits remaining. That would ensure we lynch correctly tomorrow.

Hm, but then how does it confirm anything for the TPRs if 2 cits are left, or for the cits if two TPRs are left?

[Ganelon]

hi guys lol.

Ok, slow down blink please. This is a 7 players game, and game has started since exactly 43 minutes.

Hello, Marshmallow! Welcome to our merry gathering of concerned villagers! Please take a seat! Would you like a drink?


One mislynch and we're doomed, is that it?

My stance on D1 lynch: The game is very small, and scums are guaranteed to have a nightkill. We must lynch D1. Wasting days in such a setup is the way to lose. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean we must random lynch. Lynching a town would be catastrophic, because we would instantly be put in a LYLO situation on D2. If we really have no leads at end of day, we'll have to lynch on D2 or die.

Now about you @OzyWho , did you read a bit Helz's guide about communication and did you read the post about how to vote unvote see count etc?

Nope. Two mislynches to lose. A game starting on MYLO would literally be retarded xD

You have played enough games now to know it would not be random. However, your play is very unusual and counter-intuitive to me (not bad though, that's not what I mean) so I will read that as NAI. Note to self: bookmark #16

Not at all :P its [vote ] the player's name here [/vote ] without spaces.

Ok maybe I skipped a part here xD

I meant to say that we must lynch someone today unless we really have no idea. Since we got some new guys here, I wanted to make it obvious that no lynch > random lynch. But I think we should be good enough to form reads on D1 ;)

You may find all the informations you want on the setup.

Fuck, it's not there xD

@Gyrlander Is lynch standard? (51% votes, non mandatory)

On a game with many new players, it's a bad idea to let the game go to LYLO before lynching lol. MYLO max.

Do not forget the Pyromancer!! If there was one, it would change the game drastically.

Lynch D1 with Pyro: 5-1=4 townies VS 2 witches/5v1
No lynch D1 with Pyro: 5 townies VS 2 witches
Lynch D1 with Grandmaster: X townies VS 2 witches/X townies VS 1 witch
No lynch D1 with GM: X townies VS 2 witches
Lynch D1 with Rational Arcanist: LYLO D2/4v1 D2
No lynch with Rational Arcanist: 4v2 D2

Ehh... Be careful with this kind of statements. It's D1 first hour, we could still be witches misleading everyone. It's too early to say such a thing.

Which is why I sent everyone to FM guides and have explained how to vote in signups section (apparently some people didn't bother to read it though ) so you're right.

LYLO = Lynch or lose, 3v2/2v1 in this setup.
MYLO = Mislynch and lose, 4v2/3v1 in this setup.
FM = Forum Mafia.
The mod = SC2 -Mafia- arcade game, where you're probably from.
"Playername is at L-#" means that the player will be lynched if # more votes are added on him.

If you got more questions, feel free to ask.

Omg calm down guys, you can't say people are lurkers when game has only started since 1 hour!

?!

Just noticed something, potential slip that I will however not tell for now. Bookmark post #4

The hammer would automatically get lynched. However, what the hell was the goal of this? Something weird just happened there

Oh, adding sheeping to the list: to sheep someone/a vote is to vote with someone without giving a reason.

Nice! We'll need everyone's input in order to win this game. As Distorted said, this is a merciless setup.

Sadly this is not how FM works... And even if only the scums were lying about their roles, I'd be against this.
There is why: TPRs (Town Power Roles) will probably want to claim Citizen in order to survive at night. You can't be 100% sure townies won't lie about their roles.

But the next this is that a mass rolecall only reveals TPRs in such a setup. I've played a very very very similar setup called Super Basic, 7 players with two TPRs two mafia (one mafioso one consig/consort) and 3 citizens. A massive rolecall was ordered, and all the TPRs (two detectives, I was one ) died. Then our dear host Gyrlander won as scum, even if (s?)he had claimed doctor before. Gyrlander managed to convince players that she had claimed Doctor in order to act as a meat shield, so the real TPRs wouldn't get killed. The game ended on a Mafia win. I don't want to see such a thing again.


So short story: NO MASS ROLE CALL ON DAY ONE.

They have a nightkill, read the setup :P

^^ let's get a serious meta note about Distorted though: he is a GREAT scum and will seem very pro-town to everyone as scum. Sorry Distorted, but since The Return of Haloden, I will never ever trust you unless host posts Distorted is the mayor with 3 votes.

2 or 4 votes would work too btw ;)

DON'T START THE ROLE CALL PLEASE!! Not yet. On day two, maybe.

@Magoroth get your vote off sovietlove please. Just so the day doesn't get ruined by a turbo L-1.

You are stating things but not giving reasons for the statements. Mind to elaborate a little bit?

By the way, I'll go off for ± 3 hours soon, don't scream lurker alert please :P

It just creates more confusion, can we just talk for now please? Don't start messing up with people's minds!

Hm, actually MYLO is not that bad... Maybe you're right, we should wait.

Me and Distorted before both witches? I don't get what that means o.O

Grandmaster. There is also the possibility of Anti-Mage (Vigilante) that can add a death to the count. Plus, I feel like the experienced players are gonna die first (RIP me and Distorted). You're not that right about the D2 MYLO: Pyromancer can't kill N1, and GM might miss a kill. Let's not lynch D1. I did not take what you guys have said in account when I said we had to lynch today.

Also I KNOW FM IS SO FUN XD
It's all good, you seem to already think correctly and you are being good for a new player

Explaining: +1 means adding a "town point" to that guy, so Distorted trusts OzyWho more because of this post. And I agree with him

I have changed my point on D1 lynch. If we let a night pass, we'll get a lot of information about the scum's roles and probably gather more information on players. We'll also get input from everyone (I hope!) before lynching someone. Let's just talk.

Wait, THAT'S ALL?! And I'm the only one browsing this thread?!!! Crap... We need more than that, guys! Communication is critical. 5 pages (assuming you have pages of 20 posts) isn't enough let's get this started better tomorrow IRL day.

Hey, I'm back! Going to read, if you got questions for me drop a [MENTION ] marshmallow marshall and I'll answer.

One mislynch and it's a double MYLO (3v2, lynch scum its 2v1 next day, becomes LYLO). Which is why I'm rather against the D1 lynch now. However, as Distorted said, we should define our main suspect so we don't get to D2 without anything done.

The BIG difference between the last game and this one is the setup. In the last game, TPRs were in super big amount, actually the biggest amount I had ever seen in a FM game. Mass rolecall was the way to win, because losing TPRs really didn't matter, since they were the biggest part of the Town.

Now blink claimed a role, then "disclaimed" it. He gained some scum points for doing so imo. I'd like more input from him.

-vote Blinkskater

Omg what the hell is that big terrible slip XD EXPLAIN YOURSELF SOVIET!!!

No, affirmative... Post #21 of the setup.

Why? I thought a D2 lynch would be best option, and then see if lynch D3 or D4.

Ok my vote stays on you sir.

(This post is not directed to the host) Holy crap... Does that mean that witches could have no night kill? I think Gyrlander randomized roles. So if the "always a killing witch" wasn't there... it means that there could not be any nightkill! Which means we can not lynch today without fearing people getting murdered all game long.

Uhm. Why? He already claimed citizen, but then retracted it somehow.

+1. If there are two killing roles, GG already game over, we'll all die and have no chance. I don't think host would allow such a thing for balance concerns. Plus, 9% is rather small. 1 killing role or 0 killing roles is most probable, and we should make the discussion oriented on these two possibilities. This is a very very pro-town post imo.

N.B. Grandmaster (MassMurderer) can miss his first spree, and still has to wait a night before spreeing again. It could lead us to think there was 0 killing roles too.

Couldn't post more than those, for some reason I bugged out...?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I would be MORE comfoortable with an Ozy, but i wanted to see how Ozy would react when I pushed at Soviet. Since Soviet jumped to Ozy, wanted to see if Ozy would do the same. He did not at all address my information on Soviet even after i voted him, instead went to pushing for no lynch further; and now trying to recruit everyone else to do the same.

True.

-vote OzyWho

A pressure vote on you, I want to hear a list of reads from you and I want the reason why you don't want to lynch today. It's a bad idea.

[Ganelon]

Yeah, talk some more, Ozy.

[Soviet_Love]

I pushed at Ozy and Soviet jumped in and started accusing me, which is 30 minutes after he said he needed to think. he was lurking and it was literally within 3 minutes of me pushing ozy he is defending him. So, honestly I am fine with either.

@Soviet_Love If me and MM are your most town reads, why not question Ozy or allow me to without interfearing? better yet, why not put a vote there? Your 2 most town reads and 1 scum are in a group of 3 and u don't push the 3rd. instead, you still question the person he "investigated", but wouldent that make even more evidence for a lynch on Ozy?

I don't think I've voted on anyone yet. And I was just raising the possibilities of what other combinations of roles there could be

[Ganelon]

-vote unvote

[OzyWho]

We won't be more certain of anything D3. The only thing we'll lose is a townie.

We will lose a townie, yes (IF its GF).
However - one mislynch and we lose.
So I ask you this: Would you rather gambit a lynch today or tommorow? Could you possibly tommorow have LESS info than today? I think not. If we find evil today and are certain - I'm all for a lynch. But if we are uncertain - I'm against it.
You say we we won't be more certain tommorow than today.
I say we won't be less certain tommorow than today.
Nothing to lose, only to gain

[OzyWho]

-vote unvote

[Ganelon]

It might not be such a bad idea to abstain today. Either one of us will die... which would put us at 3v2. One of the Citizen or TPR claims will be eliminated - if we abstain, I predict with near certainty that either Distorted or Noz will no longer be among us. Which might be a bad idea.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Last game you were very passive, didn't post much ect. I pointed that out and it was never answered. Also - you have 0 reads on anyone...that is what is a HUGE red flag. usually when scum get pressued (especially when they have been kicking back as the strongest town lead) they won't have very good leads on anything because they have not been focusing on reading people; since that takes a lot of time and effort. You even stated last page yourself how much work that takes, OBVIOUSLY you have NOT been following the individual reads on people this game if it is really that much work for you to come up with basic reads on people.

That's a true thing though, I'd like a list of reads. But hey, YOU TOO DISTORTED ^^ and Mag too and Ozy too.

[Ganelon]

If we have an Arsonist, WE CANNOT ABSTAIN TODAY HOWEVER. IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WE DO NOT.

[Ganelon]

My list of reads:

I'm not fucking sure anymore. At the beginning of the today, if you would've asked me, I would've said that Marshmallow and Noz are the only ones I would attempt to lynch.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

We will lose a townie, yes (IF its GF).
However - one mislynch and we lose.
So I ask you this: Would you rather gambit a lynch today or tommorow? Could you possibly tommorow have LESS info than today? I think not. If we find evil today and are certain - I'm all for a lynch. But if we are uncertain - I'm against it.
You say we we won't be more certain tommorow than today.
I say we won't be less certain tommorow than today.
Nothing to lose, only to gain

The thing to lose is a townie. LYLO situations must be avoided at all costs.

[Ganelon]

The thing to lose is a townie. LYLO situations must be avoided at all costs.

Then it's decided, I'm for a lynch today.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Couldn't post more than those, for some reason I bugged out...?

Oh yeah btw, that's not an ISO, just a multiquote wall. You must comment the posts and argue about it, and get a conclusion out of it. Even if the conclusion is "I DONT FUCKING KNOW!!!!" :P

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Getting in the OzyWho ISO, won't reply for a while.

[Distorted]

That's a true thing though, I'd like a list of reads. But hey, YOU TOO DISTORTED ^^ and Mag too and Ozy too.

I have posted up many but Ill run it again:
Reads as of Day start:
my suspicions on MM were based on his playstyle difference.
my suspicions on magoroth was due to painting blink as a scum, and blink starting to push him back then dying.
my suspicions on Ozy were gone after we argued, i had him as a town slot.
my annoyance with Noz is stop signing up unless you know you can post more than 2x per day.
my suspicions on SCVMurderer are null because he is in the other game.
my reads on Soviet were town due to his frequent posting of useful information, but suspiciouns due to a huge difference in playstyle from last game (which he was town in) - actually the last 2 games.

Current reads:
Soviet has not been posting any reads on people, just stating the facts of the game with math. it is clear he is not following individuals or trying to pick up on patterns. He even stated how much work that would be, and im guessing because it is because he would have to "start now" and reread everything. He labeled me and MM as his strongest town reads, but jumped in to push back at me when I started pushing at Ozy.

Ozy claimed sheriff, which a sheriff claim from a Witch would know everyones feedback here, so it is an easy, solid claim. He continuously pushes at the afk, rather than using the time to push leads or question anyone else. When I pushed at soviet for the reasons stated above, he started tagging everyone to get everyone to agree on a "no lynch" today with him. That is probably my biggest red flag here. I can go into more details of throughout the game, but that is an off-the-top quick read.

[OzyWho]

The thing to lose is a townie. LYLO situations must be avoided at all costs.

I rather LyLo where we are even by 1% more certain on whom to lynch than MyLo where we gamble.

The thing is - imagine if the killer is MM and not GF. The consort can't role block both - me and you. So either you will be confirmed or I will find an evil/good guy. It's a huge victory for the good guys in that case.


About me saying all my reads about people - I will, probably, do it tommorow. As I have many times in this game already. Day1 and early Day2 I have definetly done it more than anyone, except maybe Distorted. So don't worry about it. But now - I'm really fucking tired guys.

[Soviet_Love]

The thing to lose is a townie. LYLO situations must be avoided at all costs.

Whats a LYLO MYLO BYLO GYLO PYLO DYLO TYLO WYLO?

[OzyWho]

When I pushed at soviet for the reasons stated above, he started tagging everyone to get everyone to agree on a "no lynch" today with him.

Happy little accidents. But I guess these are what both - evils and scums - have to feed on, because nothing else to go for.

And yeh. I notice I don't watch people as you do. I don't social dynamics shit lol. All I can talk is optimal play.

[Noz_Bugz]

Assuming it is a GF, WE ARE AT LYLO. I have a real life and I cannot be committed to these games with all of my time. I would actually like to have time to kick back and relax and have this just be the thing I do over and over is just something I'm not interested in. From now on I will usually reserve or if the set up intrigues me and I have the time sign up for it.

[Soviet_Love]

I have posted up many but Ill run it again:
Reads as of Day start:
my suspicions on MM were based on his playstyle difference.
my suspicions on magoroth was due to painting blink as a scum, and blink starting to push him back then dying.
my suspicions on Ozy were gone after we argued, i had him as a town slot.
my annoyance with Noz is stop signing up unless you know you can post more than 2x per day.
my suspicions on SCVMurderer are null because he is in the other game.
my reads on Soviet were town due to his frequent posting of useful information, but suspiciouns due to a huge difference in playstyle from last game (which he was town in) - actually the last 2 games.

Current reads:
Soviet has not been posting any reads on people, just stating the facts of the game with math. it is clear he is not following individuals or trying to pick up on patterns. He even stated how much work that would be, and im guessing because it is because he would have to "start now" and reread everything. He labeled me and MM as his strongest town reads, but jumped in to push back at me when I started pushing at Ozy.

Ozy claimed sheriff, which a sheriff claim from a Witch would know everyones feedback here, so it is an easy, solid claim. He continuously pushes at the afk, rather than using the time to push leads or question anyone else. When I pushed at soviet for the reasons stated above, he started tagging everyone to get everyone to agree on a "no lynch" today with him. That is probably my biggest red flag here. I can go into more details of throughout the game, but that is an off-the-top quick read.

In the other games I also wanted to talk about probabilities and wait until night actions and have people claim roles. People got upset at me there as well for not dissecting people. Ok maybe in FM you're supposed to read from people's metas, and you meta meta change your meta so people can't meta read your meta, but I think that's retarded.

The big things to go off of are getting role claims, night action claims, and who seems to be speaking up for whom and for what reasons. I know either Noz or Mag are scum so I'd like to focus on them.

[Distorted]

In the other games I also wanted to talk about probabilities and wait until night actions and have people claim roles. People got upset at me there as well for not dissecting people. Ok maybe in FM you're supposed to read from people's metas, and you meta meta change your meta so people can't meta read your meta, but I think that's retarded.

The big things to go off of are getting role claims, night action claims, and who seems to be speaking up for whom and for what reasons. I know either Noz or Mag are scum so I'd like to focus on them.

the biggest thing I went off of was the stuff i mentioned, but then to top it off was the interaction between you 2. Why not vote Ozy?

[Noz_Bugz]

[/vote] unvote [/vote] before i forget. I want to keep Ozy at L-2. whoever puts him in L-1 will be the target of my vote.
DO NOT VOTE OZY UNLESS WE ARE 100% SURE HE IS SCUM

[Noz_Bugz]

-vote unvote

ahh im a idiot

[Soviet_Love]

Hmmm Ozy. I guess it's possible.

The big things for him that I think are relevant is: he has claimed sheriff, claim to have invested mag, claimed to have gotten a not suspicious.

-I liked that he was the first TPR to claim. I think that is plus points for him.
-I dislike that his role is sheriff, particularly when 2/3 of the killing roles for witch are not suspicious. Sheriff is an easily claimed role for a bad guy. Then again, every role that's been claimed (even vig, doc and bg softclaim by distorted) is easily claimed. Of the 3, I suppose his is the hardest to prove because he needs to go again n2.
-I was suspicious of mag for a long time, but I'm getting less suspicious when I think it's either him or Noz. So maybe the Not Suspcious verdict makes sense.

It's hard to say. I also posted earlier about all the different possibilities (both ozy and mag are scum, one or the other, both town) hoping people would comment on it. When I spoke in his defense I was raising some other possibility, didn't realize I was aligning myself with Ozy. Other than Noz/Mag (of which one must be town) I had Ozy as the scummiest TPR claim!

[Distorted]

@Magoroth @Noz_Bugz are u guys comfortable with this lynch?

[Soviet_Love]

Ozy's post did make me thing - Distorted keeps saying nobody is jumping in to defend Noz. That could be because... well... Distorted is the one jumping in to save him.

Hey wait a second. Post #621. Distorted only started accusing me of buddying with Ozy because I said Ozy's post made me realize Distorted seemed to be buddying with Noz. NOTING THIS!

[Soviet_Love]

Let me think about Ozy. What happens if we get it wrong? If godfather, then we lose (unless Distorted is actually protective role and MM is the scum).

I'm also antsy about Distorted soft-claiming a protective role when we know there's a consort/cyromage, and it is natural for a scum consort to claim to be town escort/other protect.

[Distorted]

Hey wait a second. Post #621. Distorted only started accusing me of buddying with Ozy because I said Ozy's post made me realize Distorted seemed to be buddying with Noz. NOTING THIS!

The buddying started when he said you were confirmed town long ago - that was the post when you came in diverting the conversation away from me accusing your "scummiest TPR" read.

And that is the exact reason I just posted this:

@Magoroth @Noz_Bugz are u guys comfortable with this lynch?

It would get u responding again. Whenever i bring up Ozy you start chiming in trying to pull attention off - PLEASE provide an ICO or reads on everyone, something you have gathered. Right here, right now these interactions are giving a shit-load of information.