S-FM 204: Insanity

[Unknown1234]

Also why would vigilante need to claim the amount of shots?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Does anyone else like this setup? I'm enjoying myself.

Lots has happened today, you have a lot to catch up, which I assume you've been doing since you've been lurking for a bit. What are your thoughts on yzb claiming ML, and me claiming taek is ML

[ThePaladin]

Taekyon Just left after responding to a post past my posts but not to my posts.

NOTE THAT HE JUST REFUSED TO GIVE INFORMATION THAT COULD POTENTIALLY CONFIRM THAT HE IS TELLING THE TRUTH OR EXPOSE A FALSEHOOD.

HE also did not claim this information which would be exclusive to vigis with his initial role, meaning its very possible he fakeclaimed and forgot to fake that information aswell!

[ThePaladin]

Also why would vigilante need to claim the amount of shots?

See question I just asked host.

Because its a specific piece of information that a real person claiming the role would not forget to say.

[Unknown1234]

See question I just asked host.

Because its a specific piece of information that a real person claiming the role would not forget to say.

Is it stated on the Rolecard? If so why would they need to?

[Taekyon]

So how many shots do you have Mr.Vigilante?

I got 3 on the role card.
2 remaining if I was indeed Vigilante.
That would either mean that SP got hit by Doctor AND Drug Dealer because he got no feedback or that he's got an auto-vest.

[ThePaladin]

Is it stated on the Rolecard? If so why would they need to?

See the x?

Vigilante

You may kill someone at night.
You start with X shots.
You may shoot n1.
You can not self target.

[Unknown1234]

See the x?

Vigilante

You may kill someone at night.
You start with X shots.
You may shoot n1.
You can not self target.

Ohhhh.

[ThePaladin]

I got 3 on the role card.
2 remaining if I was indeed Vigilante.
That would either mean that SP got hit by Doctor AND Drug Dealer because he got no feedback or that he's got an auto-vest.

In the event you are not lynched, shoot SP again. This will solve multiple issues.

[ThePaladin]

[QUOTE=ThePaladin;625286]Do all vigilantes have the same number of shots?[/QUOTE @deathworlds
@Deathworlds Host

[Unknown1234]

Lots has happened today, you have a lot to catch up, which I assume you've been doing since you've been lurking for a bit. What are your thoughts on yzb claiming ML, and me claiming taek is ML

Mhm, yeah I look around a lot.

Why was his claim so open? Wouldn't it be better to try baiting a cult or something? I didn't think yzb was terribly scummy, but did we get any feedback confirmation from him?

You claiming Taek is ML is possible, but odds are against it. 25% is not likely so I wouldn't be surprised if you got the wrong thing. Although his vigilante claim doesn't make sense based on his target not dying.

[Iced_Monopoly]

From a setup perspective in an insane game, it appears 'reasonable' that the hosts would have a lunatic killing role that is actually a converter, and a town lunatic converter that is actual a cultist, atleast thats imo.

I would like to continue the lynch on yzb, I understand hes off sleeping now, but so are most people it seems, so everyone should all come back around the same time and this can be debated.

I still believe the best course of action is for Taek to visit spruance tonight, and yzb to be lynched today.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Mhm, yeah I look around a lot.

Why was his claim so open? Wouldn't it be better to try baiting a cult or something? I didn't think yzb was terribly scummy, but did we get any feedback confirmation from him?

You claiming Taek is ML is possible, but odds are against it. 25% is not likely so I wouldn't be surprised if you got the wrong thing. Although his vigilante claim doesn't make sense based on his target not dying.

You mustve missed my math post earlier, its not 25%, its 66%, although now that we know he's claiming vigi, its actually 33%. Still better than 25. Given that SP is alive still and that town roles dont have auto vests, and that SP received no healing feedback we can further conclude that Taek is indeed not a vigi and is actually a lunatic with a real role of ML.

[ThePaladin]

Spoiler : Miles Edgeworth is on the case :

Woof

[ThePaladin]

From a setup perspective in an insane game, it appears 'reasonable' that the hosts would have a lunatic killing role that is actually a converter, and a town lunatic converter that is actual a cultist, atleast thats imo.

I would like to continue the lynch on yzb, I understand hes off sleeping now, but so are most people it seems, so everyone should all come back around the same time and this can be debated.

I still believe the best course of action is for Taek to visit spruance tonight, and yzb to be lynched today.

Do you have a game like this to base your ideas of host-balance off of?

[Iced_Monopoly]

Do you have a game like this to base your ideas of host-balance off of?

I do not, but if you wanted to make the game confusing and insane, and you can have people believe theyre other people, would those 2 matchups not make perfect sense?

[ThePaladin]

I do not, but if you wanted to make the game confusing and insane, and you can have people believe theyre other people, would those 2 matchups not make perfect sense?

But if one is aiming for insanity wouldn't just custompicking the roles then rnging everything else into oblivion be the most insane, since it would be nearly impossible to follow/figure out?

[Iced_Monopoly]

But if one is aiming for insanity wouldn't just custompicking the roles then rnging everything else into oblivion be the most insane, since it would be nearly impossible to follow/figure out?

We were told that we wouldnt know how the setup was decided, so we'll never know. I mean this is D2, weve have limited information revealed to us today, and I like insane theories, so for this day atleast Im going to go ahead and believe that this theory is correct. As a result yzb is lynched and taek visits/converts spruance. That play would confirm myself, taek, spruance, allow someone to confirm themselves as AC, and potentially reveal cult partner of yzb should he flip that way.

[secondpassing]

We were told that we wouldnt know how the setup was decided, so we'll never know. I mean this is D2, weve have limited information revealed to us today, and I like insane theories, so for this day atleast Im going to go ahead and believe that this theory is correct. As a result yzb is lynched and taek visits/converts spruance. That play would confirm myself, taek, spruance, allow someone to confirm themselves as AC, and potentially reveal cult partner of yzb should he flip that way.

All operative of the fact that you are not a lunatic.

I believe kyon-kyon is a lying sinister, and that Iced_Monopoly is a lunatic.

[ThePaladin]

I get the feeling that either or both

Yzb and taekyon is/are a sinister.

[secondpassing]

We were told that we wouldnt know how the setup was decided, so we'll never know. I mean this is D2, weve have limited information revealed to us today, and I like insane theories, so for this day atleast Im going to go ahead and believe that this theory is correct. As a result yzb is lynched and taek visits/converts spruance. That play would confirm myself, taek, spruance, allow someone to confirm themselves as AC, and potentially reveal cult partner of yzb should he flip that way.

We get immediate information if yzb is lynched. If yzb is lynched as a town, that flip tells us almost nothing, it would just make me fear for the night's actions. Why are you assuming that yzb will be lynched? I do not support this.

[secondpassing]

Let us consider some of his quotes around what has happened around

Vigilante

Which is obviously not right since SP is still alive.

(emphasis mine, see point two)

Town-ish read but I always had my suspicion.

Taekyon claims to have visited me with the rolecard vigilante. The first problem with this is that he tried to attack his gut-town read.

I don't like the way he's constantly targeting me for no apparent reason.

I still get a town-ish read on him though.(gut-feeling)
(Could be my executioner lol)

Original Post Link


Interestingly enough, there were no reads from him until prompted, nor did these reads encompass day 1. In my own eyes, I have not changed stance since day 1, ever since I've latched onto a scum read, I have been pushing for his death.

Give me another night to verify my role (First one wasn't fruitful unfortunately)
The next day, I will gladly confirm your role by asking my target what feedback they received.
In case I die tonight, my true role being revealed tomorrow will also help you.
Win-Win situation.

If he is not vigilante and he knows he isn't vigilante, why would he need another night? The feedback they would receive would be that they are dead.

I got 3 on the role card.
2 remaining if I was indeed Vigilante.
That would either mean that SP got hit by Doctor AND Drug Dealer because he got no feedback or that he's got an auto-vest.

And here he doesn't question that I was either lying or that Iced_Monopoly is a lunatic. Why? Why wouldn't he question that?



I have a scum sitting in front of me, and he should be lynched.

[Iced_Monopoly]

All operative of the fact that you are not a lunatic.

I believe kyon-kyon is a lying sinister, and that Iced_Monopoly is a lunatic.

Except that I detected Taek as ML, and he claimed vigi who targetted a player that wasnt attacked (no feedback confirmed by you) and no town role has an auto vest, so hes likely not a vigi at all, which would confirm me as more likely being my role than as lunatic.

[Iced_Monopoly]

yzb or Taekyon, I am happy with either being lynched today. Not happy with the level of lurking and uninvolvement from today though, Eggy, GF, Gyrlander, RLVG, Spruance, and TDL.

[Deathworlds Host]

Is there no punishment for town for lynching jester (king)?

No punishment.

Do all vigilantes have the same number of shots?

No.

(note: this account cannot access the 'mentions' feature so I would recommend mentioning deathworlds)

[Gyrlander]

Gosh, a lot of things happened last night as everyone role claiming? Wuu!!

[Unknown1234]

Gosh, a lot of things happened last night as everyone role claiming? Wuu!!

Yeah, OMG! Do you mind telling us if you were roleblocked or if you soft claimed escort?

[Gyrlander]

Yeah, OMG! Do you mind telling us if you were roleblocked or if you soft claimed escort?

When did I supposely soft claim Escort? And no, I wasn't roleblocked.

[Unknown1234]

When did I supposely soft claim Escort? And no, I wasn't roleblocked.

Sorry, it's like 5am, but I coulda swore you mentioned one of the two.... Anyways.

[Iced_Monopoly]

Sorry, it's like 5am, but I coulda swore you mentioned one of the two.... Anyways.

Anyways what? Please continue, you need to contributeeeee

[yzb25]

I'm so sorry for being such a troll and a cunt. This feels a little like gamethrowing, but at the same time I don't really feel like this has necessarily hurt the town.

Anyway, RLVG misread a shitposting session towards the end of d1 as serious. I was going to correct y'all, but I kind of wanted to see what would happen, and not correcting the mistake fed into the baiting I was doing last night.

I had no idea that decision would set off a chain of TPR-claiming.

Anyway, I'll go read #624-629 (they're all very short posts)

Also:

Does the jester-king win result in town's loss? Is there any detriment to lynching Jester King from town's POV?

[yzb25]

I'm so sorry for being such a troll and a cunt. This feels a little like gamethrowing, but at the same time I don't really feel like this has necessarily hurt the town.

Anyway, RLVG misread a shitposting session towards the end of d1 as serious. I was going to correct y'all, but I kind of wanted to see what would happen, and not correcting the mistake fed into the baiting I was doing last night.

I had no idea that decision would set off a chain of TPR-claiming.

Anyway, go read #624-629 (they're all very short posts)

Also:

Does the jester-king win result in town's loss? Is there any detriment to lynching Jester King from town's POV?

[][][]

[yzb25]

Anyway, a few points on the TPR claiming:

1) We haven't given the possibility that Taekyon did shoot SP, but SP was immune due thought. (Taekyon wouldn't receive immunity feedback). We also haven't considered why Taekyon is being so liberal with 3 shots (essentially wasting 2 through experimentation, when he may play a crucial role in purging cult).

Also, Taekyon, a player who was quite hesitant about lynching on d1 merely for information, is perfectly fine with using a finite night kill on n1 for pure information. Wouldn't you expect a player like him to be more conservative with NKs? Lol? Also, it's quite survival-focused to off SP in such a fashion, because it seems the only reason you chose him was because he had suspicion on you.

Frankly, if I was vigilante, I would have shot me or Paladin (to try to avoid a possible bitter argument for 5 days) or policy-shot an inactive like eggy, rather than kill SP for disagreeing with your play - your decision was untownlike on multiple levels. Oh well banter I guess lel :P.

2) We haven't given the possibility that Iced_Monopoly received the Sleuth rolecard, and he's using his own reads from his Sleuth results to build theories while exposing TPRs and gaining more information for himself, all while building up town cred. If the ML claim has been knocking around for so long, why did Ice wait for so long to talk about it? Read the context of Ice'd investigator claim again - it seems more like an opportunistic twist of the truth rather than a carefully-planned reveal.

3) Why did Gyrlander rage so hard about TPR speculation when it was brought up earlier in d2 only to say later in d2 "Mass role reveal? That's pretty cool [#1076]" later on? (Even if TPRs themselves are choosing to reveal, it still has the same effect) You either think mass role reveal is strategically viable for town or you don't. His reaction implies he doesn't actually care if it's strategically viable for town or not, and the original rage post was just an act.

This alone makes me want to vote Gyrlander.

4) We need to be more careful about asking around about TPRs. Even if they haven't realized it themselves yet, there's probably a couple protectives knocking around that you could accidentally expose to a NK.

All in all, I find it difficult to believe the mason leader thing regarding Ice was completely pulled out of his ass. Though, he seems so fixated on the idea that someone received a mason leader role but is actually a cult leader, implying he's given this random possibility lots of thought. The cult leader thing seems reaaally contrived and out-of-place, especially from someone who has slammed others for flimsy reasoning like "oh I'm voting X because it's what Kovath wanted.". I have a feeling he rolled sleuth, and got feedback connected to a mason leader and a cult leader.

[yzb25]

The original reason I voted Ice was because of the really obscure question he asked the host:

Consider this question for a moment:

If a sheriff leaves 2 targets in his night action, when he recieves feedback, does the feedback default to the name of the first targetted player even if the target was randomed, or does it reflect who he visited of the random players?

ie.
First Target Player A
Second Target Player B
(Randomiser selects actually checking player B)

Scenario 1:
You visited Player A, player A is a scrub
Scenario 2:
You visited Player B, player B is a scrub

Doesn't this question strike you as incredibly pointless?

If your sheriff feedback specifically tells you that you visited player A's room, why would it give you feedback on player B? Wouldn't that be an incredibly misleading oversight on the part of the host?

Just put yourself in the host's shoes, designing this setup: What god-awful demon would possess you to make you think scenario 2 is the better choice? If host wanted scenario 2, he could easily phrase it in a less misleading manner ("you successfully visited the room of your random choice" rather than "you visited X's room")

For someone like Ice, who seemed quite capable of taking thought processes very far, this seemed like an oversight I couldn't believe he made as a town.

In other words, I could only believe he asked this question to pretend to be town. To look like he was being helpful by asking a completely pointless question.

Though, in light of the ML-unique-fuck-up Ice made, I think he's just the kinda guy who misses big details when constructing elaborate thought process - the kind of guy that manages to figure out how to answer the really hard maths question but forgets to multiply by -1 or some shit lol.

[yzb25]

I'm gonna have very little activity until the last 4 or 5 hours of daytime. Sorrrryyyyy

-vote Gyrlander

[yzb25]

Oh, and one more thing:

I get Paladin is voting me because he hates me and all.

I get Ice is voting me to make progress on understanding his investigator / sleuth / whatever reads - he stands to benefit and confirm himself to himself.

But why is Taekyon voting me? "Pressure"? I've already stated over and over that I will happily die to yield information for the town, and I even deliberately baited last night. You pressure people who value their lives, fool. I dunno, just feels a little fake is all.

[Gyrlander]

Anyway, a few points on the TPR claiming:

1) We haven't given the possibility that Taekyon did shoot SP, but SP was immune due thought. (Taekyon wouldn't receive immunity feedback). We also haven't considered why Taekyon is being so liberal with 3 shots (essentially wasting 2 through experimentation, when he may play a crucial role in purging cult).

Also, Taekyon, a player who was quite hesitant about lynching on d1 merely for information, is perfectly fine with using a finite night kill on n1 for pure information. Wouldn't you expect a player like him to be more conservative with NKs? Lol? Also, it's quite survival-focused to off SP in such a fashion, because it seems the only reason you chose him was because he had suspicion on you.

Frankly, if I was vigilante, I would have shot me or Paladin (to try to avoid a possible bitter argument for 5 days) or policy-shot an inactive like eggy, rather than kill SP for disagreeing with your play - your decision was untownlike on multiple levels. Oh well banter I guess lel :P.

2) We haven't given the possibility that Iced_Monopoly received the Sleuth rolecard, and he's using his own reads from his Sleuth results to build theories while exposing TPRs and gaining more information for himself, all while building up town cred. If the ML claim has been knocking around for so long, why did Ice wait for so long to talk about it? Read the context of Ice'd investigator claim again - it seems more like an opportunistic twist of the truth rather than a carefully-planned reveal.

3) Why did Gyrlander rage so hard about TPR speculation when it was brought up earlier in d2 only to say later in d2 "Mass role reveal? That's pretty cool [#1076]" later on? (Even if TPRs themselves are choosing to reveal, it still has the same effect) You either think mass role reveal is strategically viable for town or you don't. His reaction implies he doesn't actually care if it's strategically viable for town or not, and the original rage post was just an act.

This alone makes me want to vote Gyrlander.

4) We need to be more careful about asking around about TPRs. Even if they haven't realized it themselves yet, there's probably a couple protectives knocking around that you could accidentally expose to a NK.

All in all, I find it difficult to believe the mason leader thing regarding Ice was completely pulled out of his ass. Though, he seems so fixated on the idea that someone received a mason leader role but is actually a cult leader, implying he's given this random possibility lots of thought. The cult leader thing seems reaaally contrived and out-of-place, especially from someone who has slammed others for flimsy reasoning like "oh I'm voting X because it's what Kovath wanted.". I have a feeling he rolled sleuth, and got feedback connected to a mason leader and a cult leader.

That's totally false and I hope you're ashamed of yourself. I wrote mass claim BEFORE I complained, sweetie. Plus the mass role claim thing was a joke and it is fucking obvious.

[yzb25]

That's totally false and I hope you're ashamed of yourself. I wrote mass claim BEFORE I complained, sweetie. Plus the mass role claim thing was a joke and it is fucking obvious.

You're talking about a different post, sweetie :P

I'm talking about the post 1076, which I directly noted in my paragraph, where you barely reacted to all the claiming going on.

NOW TAKE THE SHAME BACK T_T

[RLVG]

When did I supposely soft claim Escort? And no, I wasn't roleblocked.

Lol, you did.

[RLVG]

Plot-Twist, we have a ton of Jester Kings here and only one is real. Too many are just playing Obv-Scum.

It's our duty to figure out who the fuck is the real one.

[Gyrlander]

You're talking about a different post, sweetie :P

I'm talking about the post 1076, which I directly noted in my paragraph, where you barely reacted to all the claiming going on.

NOW TAKE THE SHAME BACK T_T

No, no I will DOUBLE the shame because the post that you just "reffered to" is like WTF? Do you know how to perceive sarcasm? I said like "everyone role claimed. Wuuu" actually meaning "everyone continued role claiming when we already said not to, FUCKING DUMBASSES"

[Gyrlander]

Lol, you did.

I did not you little bitch.

[RLVG]

I did not you little bitch.

You did you little firemancing animal. Either that, or a freudian slip.

[yzb25]

No, no I will DOUBLE the shame because the post that you just "reffered to" is like WTF? Do you know how to perceive sarcasm? I said like "everyone role claimed. Wuuu" actually meaning "everyone continued role claiming when we already said not to, FUCKING DUMBASSES"

Well then your sarcasm failed, because noone read that from what you said. Everyone read "lol mass claim banter".

It's no secret you don't contribute much - but that's where your value lies.

On the rare occasion you do decide to say something substantial, people listen. On a subconscious level, they think "woah, he's always acting like a troll, which means he don't give two shits about anything, and what he says is impartial, and when he says something serious, it must be fucking serious."

Case and point: when you were raging at people for claiming citizen - Everyone listened and patted you on the head "good job Gyrlander for saying the really important things when it matters"

Except this time, you failed to come out of sarcasm mode and give proper rage.

You failed at your only purpose.

That puts you below Eggy.

That is why your death can only be good for this town - because your contributions have become officially empty.

[Unknown1234]

Anyways what? Please continue, you need to contributeeeee

It was 5am have some respect.

[Unknown1234]

I used a page that I got thank to some sex favors. As I said yesterday, this vote is purely gut. And now that another player voted him too WOWOWOWO GET ON THE TRAIN MY LITTLE FRIENDS WE'RE GOING TO WONDERLAND

Sigh...

[Unknown1234]

My night feedback was kinda... scary.

Can you explain this then?

[yzb25]

Can you explain this then?

Pressure vote his ass Unknown.

This is what he told us he said:

I said like "everyone role claimed. Wuuu" actually meaning "everyone continued role claiming when we already said not to, FUCKING DUMBASSES"

This is what he actually said:

Gosh, a lot of things happened last night as everyone role claiming? Wuu!!

Do you typically add another, sarcastic line on the end of sentences that partially contradicts the previous sentences? Is than natural england?

He is reacting like a little shit to pressure. Fucking vote his ass.

[Unknown1234]

Pressure vote his ass Unknown.

This is what he told us he said:



This is what he actually said:



Do you typically add another, sarcastic line on the end of sentences that partially contradicts the previous sentences? Is than natural england?

He is reacting like a little shit to pressure. Fucking vote his ass.

Gyrlander is not British, no?

[Unknown1234]

-vote Eggy

I think Eggy needs to speak or GTFO.