S-FM 220: Empire

[Never Unlucky]

I thought you left the site though? You seemed to be very clear about that in the other thread regarding shitposting, site issues, and whatnot?

I just don't intend on playing games over here. I do still follow the new threads, setups, (most) games, and memes.

And I think you're confusing me with someone else in regards to shitposting -- I have no problem with it. I actually encourage it.

[ika]

if this were to be ran again i would change the blackmailer ot have host apporval with a 48 hr night to allow time to make it and host apporve.

i would still have it that if a player basicly goes "fuck blackmail" they get modkilled on the spot and turned nurtal survvior with LW wiped and if they break it they they die at EOD.

i would not mind giving a warnign if something was unclear or such or something that is questionable.

[SilverWolf]

OK, I've calmed down. I already told Unknown but I killed him for asking Sino to jail him. This was a leader claim to me because of Mafia Wars where the GF was jailed and townblocked with the jailer. I wanted to kill the pleb leader first so I could town side after that. I actually had a thought in the back of my mind that it would frame MZ as the neutral because he was the only one scumreading unknown and figured that would only benefit me regarding royal guard aiming for him and not me.

When ika neutral claimed, it was a scumclaim to me but I thought he might be Empress who was NK immune just trying to get a no kill off. I decided to shoot him because I had a 50% chance of meeting my wincon that way and if I didn't kill him, I'd know the Emperor was his buddy.

I do think with as many TPR's as town had, and the many ways I could of been blocked-jailer, roleblocker, Empress, doctor, that it was town-sided. The only thing that would of helped scum was if I didn't find the pleb leader right away or they would of set the Royal Guard off on me.

That's the reason I played as townie as I could and completely avoiding talking about the neutral. So I wouldn't get lynched or suspected by scum as being neutral.

Regarding ika claiming neutral and the BM role, I have no further comment on it.

Thanks for playing everyone and thanks for hosting gyrlander.

[ika]

anyways silverwolf does deserve MVP for this, this was her first time solo neutral and she not only pegged the town leader but she was able to see though my WIFOM gambit and win

VWP silverwolf, you are still the best player i know and love.

[ika]

-vote silverwolf

for MVP

edit: amnn it doesnt work

[Calix]

I took it up to gyr becasue as a host we cant change it. if the rolecard says "if they fail they die" there should be no warning, she should of just died at EOD when she broke it first time with the : (yes that is a punctuation mark). after she broke it with the read lsit and continued i was fine with her dying at EOD. but when she basicly went "fuck it" thats not doing it anymore, thats jsut breaking not only your wincon (eating the modkill), but the spirit of the game (well i broke it so im gonna post normal now)

i already aplogized that i word lawyered it and that it is something i do basicly outside of alignement. I do agree with the ideal of "host needs to apporve" or something (cus frankly i could of chained 20 difrent resctions together with commas and joint words looking at it) but this was gyrs first game so i do give him a lot of creidt

for the first game he did a fair job overall.

blackmailer is one of those roles that jsut needs ot be proprly cared of

Gyrlander told me that I was going to die at EOD and specifically told me that I was allowed to post normally.

I did not break the blackmail with the intent of dying straight away. I posted normally AFTER he said I would die at EOD because I had no incentive to keep posting like a retard.

That's why I'm angry.

Apology for 'word lawyering' accepted.

This is his third game. He needs to learn a lesson for future games.

Blackmailer is not a role that should exist. SC2 is a site that already has issues with lurkers. Blackmailer does not help with this and I was essentially punished for playing the game.

That is a toxic thing to reinforce on this site.

[DarknessB]

i feel like your missing the actual context that i read in the rolecard



how i read this is that if player reveals or hints at any point the die on the spot and in turn i read it mutaly exlcusive to this one cus of its wording



the word "orders" implyes it was designated tot he blackmail challange itself and not the claiming blackmail portion.

i know its irnoic its like that but i didnt realize there could of been ambugiuty untill gry brought it up. The thing though is that its not his fault, its the players (and argubly the fm staffs) fault for not realzing the ambugity of the rolecard or how powerful it could be in contrast. Calix is at fault for breaking her blackmail though becasue she basicly went "fuck blackmail, post normal" in which case moreso justified the killing of her right away IMO.

I took it up to gyr becasue as a host we cant change it. if the rolecard says "if they fail they die" there should be no warning, she should of just died at EOD when she broke it first time with the : (yes that is a punctuation mark). after she broke it with the read lsit and continued i was fine with her dying at EOD. but when she basicly went "fuck it" thats not doing it anymore, thats jsut breaking not only your wincon (eating the modkill), but the spirit of the game (well i broke it so im gonna post normal now)

i already aplogized that i word lawyered it and that it is something i do basicly outside of alignement. I do agree with the ideal of "host needs to apporve" or something (cus frankly i could of chained 20 difrent resctions together with commas and joint words looking at it) but this was gyrs first game so i do give him a lot of creidt

for the first game he did a fair job overall.

blackmailer is one of those roles that jsut needs ot be proprly cared of

I mean, I guess my point is that you could read it either way and that's a problem in terms of ambiguity. You're correct that the extra emphasis on a death condition in Rule #4 might suggest that trumps the general death condition. However, the last sentence is in bold and given the reference to rules, could be assumed to apply to each of one the points that are indented with dashes.

Basically, I'm just trying to suggest that the role card was messy and could be interpreted either way on this issue because of language that seems to conflict. Both readings are reasonable, especially if people are seeing in both directions. Given that's the case, I think the host has a big problem in terms of what to do, and in the case of ambiguity, I'd probably err on the side of interfering with the game the least. That's all I was trying to say -- the whole "let the players play" principle.

Lastly, this is Gyrlander's third or fourth game hosted -- not his first game. I hope he's a lot more careful in the future because there were some serious issues here.

[secondpassing]

-vote sivlerwolf

for MVP

edit: amnn it doesnt work

Because you spelled her name wrong. :P

[ika]

Gyrlander told me that I was going to die at EOD and specifically told me that I was allowed to post normally.

I did not break the blackmail with the intent of dying straight away. I posted normally AFTER he said I would die at EOD because I had no incentive to keep posting like a retard.

That's why I'm angry.

Apology for 'word lawyering' accepted.

This is his third game. He needs to learn a lesson for future games.

Blackmailer is not a role that should exist. SC2 is a site that already has issues with lurkers. Blackmailer does not help with this and I was essentially punished for playing the game.

That is a toxic thing to reinforce on this site.

if he saids that, then that absicly breaks the whole point of BMer rolecard to begin with and that it bascily encourages people to go "well fuck blackmiler im dead man walking"

im not apologizing to you. i aplogized to gyr for it, you deserved to eat the dead.

if this is his 3rd game (i dont keep track of peoples hosted games), then i would consdier getting a co-host next time

I mean, I guess my point is that you could read it either way and that's a problem in terms of ambiguity. You're correct that the extra emphasis on a death condition in Rule #4 might suggest that trumps the general death condition. However, the last sentence is in bold and given the reference to rules, could be assumed to apply to each of one the points that are indented with dashes.

Basically, I'm just trying to suggest that the role card was messy and could be interpreted either way on this issue because of language that seems to conflict. Both readings are reasonable, especially if people are seeing in both directions. Given that's the case, I think the host has a big problem in terms of what to do, and in the case of ambiguity, I'd probably err on the side of interfering with the game the least. That's all I was trying to say -- the whole "let the players play" principle.

Lastly, this is Gyrlander's third or fourth game hosted -- not his first game. I hope he's a lot more careful in the future because there were some serious issues here.

again, if its messy wording. its up to us (the players) and the FM staff to see such things before it gets going. I msot times dont see that stuff untill game time becasue thats when i have an alignemnt and a role behind me and i reanalize it in dpeth after thinking more about it.

seeing what gry said to claix, i would argue thats not letting "players play" thats jsut "ok im gonna favor town now" i think the best application to it would of been to say "yes you broke blackmail but you cna still post till end of day under rescrtion"

going "well screw blackmail you failed it" is giving town so much more power and is unfair to scum. the least impactful thing would of been to say "you cna continue to post till EOD but you must follow the rescrtion still" cus then otherwise bmer is bascily useless in the sense that it only get a kill.

[ika]

Because you spelled her name wrong. :P

whata re you talkign about?

[Unknown1234]

whata re you talkign about?

Sivler Wolf.

[Calix]

if he saids that, then that absicly breaks the whole point of BMer rolecard to begin with and that it bascily encourages people to go "well fuck blackmiler im dead man walking"

im not apologizing to you. i aplogized to gyr for it, you deserved to eat the dead.

if this is his 3rd game (i dont keep track of peoples hosted games), then i would consdier getting a co-host next time



again, if its messy wording. its up to us (the players) and the FM staff to see such things before it gets going. I msot times dont see that stuff untill game time becasue thats when i have an alignemnt and a role behind me and i reanalize it in dpeth after thinking more about it.

seeing what gry said to claix, i would argue thats not letting "players play" thats jsut "ok im gonna favor town now" i think the best application to it would of been to say "yes you broke blackmail but you cna still post till end of day under rescrtion"

going "well screw blackmail you failed it" is giving town so much more power and is unfair to scum. the least impactful thing would of been to say "you cna continue to post till EOD but you must follow the rescrtion still" cus then otherwise bmer is bascily useless in the sense that it only get a kill.

From my point of view, the host deliberately went out of his way to fuck me over.

I know you won't care but he gave me a slew of inconsistent rulings, posts, orders, etc. I had no idea what I was doing. It was the worst hosting I have ever dealt with. You would be angry too if you saw the PMs I got from him.

I'm not the one who should be apologising.

Blackmailer is extremely scum-sided. It gave the scum a free KPN - that's extremely powerful in a setup where the scum aren't supposed to have kills. Just nuke it and be done with it. I can't believe people actually think it's a good role. It does nothing for games.

[DarknessB]

whata re you talkign about?

This is a question constantly asked to SP. Speaking of which:

@secondpassing , we need to have a real talk about your Town play... Like seriously, dude -- it needs to be chucked into an incinerator and burned up, never to be used again. I have no idea why you would think acting deliberately scummy is a good idea in terms of generating discussion, like when you sheep voted DW to L-2 early in the game. Why would you do that honestly? You knew you were Town, you knew that would generate a lot of negative attention on you -- please explain? Literally all that did was generate scumreads on you when you knew you were Town. I just don't see any Town-motivation ever to do something like that.

[Unknown1234]

-vote Gyrlander

[Calix]

-vote Gyrlander

I can get behind voting the host MVP

-vote Gyrlander

[DarknessB]

-vote Gyrlander

I will do the honors:

-vote Gyrlander

[The Godfather]

Gyrlander has been lynched! Stand by for the host's review and day-end post!


SilverWolf (1 [L-2]): ika
Gyrlander (3 [L-0]): Unknown1234, Calix, DarknessB

[Unknown1234]

999 votes to hammer.

[MattZed]

Calix is the obvious MVP. She convinced a surviving town who had completely-off reads to instead sheep hers and lynch the scum.

-vote Calix

GG everyone. A well-done game overall. The town won by outplaying the scum, who did at least have some tricks up their sleeve.

As for game balance, I might have personally gone with 3 TPR, but as it stands it doesn't affect balance that hard. Scum still has a lynch-immune role, a jack-of-all-trades, and a bomb, nevermind the rather powerful Blackmailer/whatever might replace it in future setups. It's a bit of a tough setup to balance because a neutral starts off controlling the NK, which can swing the game rather heavily, but it's in roughly the right place. Town won on D3 by the cards mostly falling in their favor; they could afford 2 mislynches because the Assassin killed one person from each faction, but if the kills had gone against them they might not be so fortunate.

My personal suggestion for blackmailer: just make it into a role that makes people have to make specific claims or arguments, to keep the flavor but prevent the frustration of making a player harder to read like Calix was; although tbh blackmailing Calix was probably the weaker move here because it further confirmed her as town, which making her claim false feedback would not be so easily relevant.

[Sino]

This is a question constantly asked to SP. Speaking of which:

@secondpassing , we need to have a real talk about your Town play... Like seriously, dude -- it needs to be chucked into an incinerator and burned up, never to be used again. I have no idea why you would think acting deliberately scummy is a good idea in terms of generating discussion, like when you sheep voted DW to L-2 early in the game. Why would you do that honestly? You knew you were Town, you knew that would generate a lot of negative attention on you -- please explain? Literally all that did was generate scumreads on you when you knew you were Town. I just don't see any Town-motivation ever to do something like that.

He got me at L-2, not deathworlds.

And i can kinda understand his town play, mine was also bad this game, as pointed out by Calix, people can make mistakes DB

[Unknown1234]

Matt, I wanna hear why I was scummy

[ika]

From my point of view, the host deliberately went out of his way to fuck me over.

I know you won't care but he gave me a slew of inconsistent rulings, posts, orders, etc. I had no idea what I was doing. It was the worst hosting I have ever dealt with. You would be angry too if you saw the PMs I got from him.

I'm not the one who should be apologising.

Blackmailer is extremely scum-sided. It gave the scum a free KPN - that's extremely powerful in a setup where the scum aren't supposed to have kills. Just nuke it and be done with it. I can't believe people actually think it's a good role. It does nothing for games.

if i got balckmailed to not use vowels i would laugh and have a ball. iirc @MattZed has done it before.

if you want to dump the PMs you could and we could look at it cus while yes gry had a few mistakes i thnk overall he did the best he could fo knoing xmas is wound the corner

the fact you had no idea what you were doing is falt on you, you should of pmed gry for clarifcation and if it was still odd keep askign untill it was clear cut. again not the hosts fault but a players fault

[Calix]

I was shocked that MZ was town.

After he made that "I trust that you're of the appropriate alignment" comment, I was so sure that he was Neutral doing the same gambit as Hell Frog, lol.

[Unknown1234]

The only difference was Calix couldn't substitute, and she had no vowels. Matt couldn't use R S T L and used - to fill in blanks.

[DarknessB]

He got me at L-2, not deathworlds.

And i can kinda understand his town play, mine was also bad this game, as pointed out by Calix, people can make mistakes DB

Eh, Sino -- he's done this in other games. He also literally explained his move as "well, I wanted to generate some discussion so I did something very scummy on purpose." There's a difference between mistakes and deliberately trying to generate scumreads on yourself as Town for the purpose of generating discussion. He tried this nonsense in BFN as well and it got him lynched. Your job as Town is to get yourself TOWNREAD, not scumread...

[SilverWolf]

The problem is Calix was allowed to give reads and help town AFTER she was blackmailed. That defeats the purpose of the blackmail entirely and I don't blame ika one damn bit for complaining about it.

When ika and I *****'d in a game on ms, we were blackmailed and were removed immediately when we broke it. It sucked because we were town jailer but it's the reason the BM role is there. To shut up a town voice.

Calix was allowed to continue to be a town voice after she was blackmailed.

Not fair to scum. ika had every right to complain.

[MattZed]

I was shocked that MZ was town.

After he made that "I trust that you're of the appropriate alignment" comment, I was so sure that he was Neutral doing the same gambit as Hell Frog, lol.

Oh no, I was mostly trying to get the Guard to attack you and remove himself from the game.

[Sino]

My personal suggestion for blackmailer: just make it into a role that makes people have to make specific claims or arguments, to keep the flavor but prevent the frustration of making a player harder to read like Calix was; although tbh blackmailing Calix was probably the weaker move here because it further confirmed her as town, which making her claim false feedback would not be so easily relevant.

Yeah, i had a case on Calix, and this blackmailing just made me instantly sheep her, that maybe wasn't scum's best move in hindsight, they could've let me try to push her.

[Calix]

if i got balckmailed to not use vowels i would laugh and have a ball. iirc @MattZed has done it before.

if you want to dump the PMs you could and we could look at it cus while yes gry had a few mistakes i thnk overall he did the best he could fo knoing xmas is wound the corner

the fact you had no idea what you were doing is falt on you, you should of pmed gry for clarifcation and if it was still odd keep askign untill it was clear cut. again not the hosts fault but a players fault

My point is that he contradicted himself on several occasions when I was asking him "yo what's allowed with my BM?" and whatever..so how am I supposed to know what to do when he doesn't explain it properly?

I sent him like, 40 PMs.

The last PM he sent me before the mod-kill was "you can post normally because you're going to die at EOD" - how else do I take that but "hey I can post normally now because I'm dead anyway?"

[ika]

Calix is the obvious MVP. She convinced a surviving town who had completely-off reads to instead sheep hers and lynch the scum.

-vote Calix

GG everyone. A well-done game overall. The town won by outplaying the scum, who did at least have some tricks up their sleeve.

As for game balance, I might have personally gone with 3 TPR, but as it stands it doesn't affect balance that hard. Scum still has a lynch-immune role, a jack-of-all-trades, and a bomb, nevermind the rather powerful Blackmailer/whatever might replace it in future setups. It's a bit of a tough setup to balance because a neutral starts off controlling the NK, which can swing the game rather heavily, but it's in roughly the right place. Town won on D3 by the cards mostly falling in their favor; they could afford 2 mislynches because the Assassin killed one person from each faction, but if the kills had gone against them they might not be so fortunate.

My personal suggestion for blackmailer: just make it into a role that makes people have to make specific claims or arguments, to keep the flavor but prevent the frustration of making a player harder to read like Calix was; although tbh blackmailing Calix was probably the weaker move here because it further confirmed her as town, which making her claim false feedback would not be so easily relevant.

consideing it got her killed and that neutral would of never targeted her. i disagree it was a bad move

if anything was a bad move was sucideing into you. @SuperJack said he was gonna bust sino and instead did you b/c he though you were neutral wich was litarly the worst play cus if you were town (as you are) it leave sino as the basic confimred town. if anything we could of left you alive as being scum after silver left or something

i also disagree that calix "reads" really convinced the town of anything. its more of the fact she is knwon to be a strong town player btu not as good as silverwolf convincing everyone she was town when she was the neutral.

when yoru neutral who cna convince people you are town thats the MVP play becasue thats the hardest thing to do

[MattZed]

Matt, I wanna hear why I was scummy

Being short on arguments and what seemed to be shallow reads.

But I will say this was an early D1 scumread. You were not even remotely close to the strength of my SJ scumread D2.

[DarknessB]

The only difference was Calix couldn't substitute, and she had no vowels. Matt couldn't use R S T L and used - to fill in blanks.

Substitution would have been a fair compromise. No vowels and no substitution wasn't fair in contrast. It's the difference b/w MZ in Watermeloann (who was understandable, albeit with effort required) and not being understandable at all.

[DarknessB]

My point is that he contradicted himself on several occasions when I was asking him "yo what's allowed with my BM?" and whatever..so how am I supposed to know what to do when he doesn't explain it properly?

I sent him like, 40 PMs.

The last PM he sent me before the mod-kill was "you can post normally because you're going to die at EOD" - how else do I take that but "hey I can post normally now because I'm dead anyway?"

Sure, not knowing what was communicated between you and Gyrlander, if he didn't have it clear on what was allowed and what wasn't, that's another issue with the hosting. I.e. if you're going to run a complex mechanic like BM, you need to have the rules down pretty solidly.

[secondpassing]

This is a question constantly asked to SP. Speaking of which:

@secondpassing , we need to have a real talk about your Town play... Like seriously, dude -- it needs to be chucked into an incinerator and burned up, never to be used again. I have no idea why you would think acting deliberately scummy is a good idea in terms of generating discussion, like when you sheep voted DW to L-2 early in the game. Why would you do that honestly? You knew you were Town, you knew that would generate a lot of negative attention on you -- please explain? Literally all that did was generate scumreads on you when you knew you were Town. I just don't see any Town-motivation ever to do something like that.

What was I thinking? I don't think I was thinking too hard. Sometimes, I like to be a scientist and experiment.
I was expecting the scum to come off of Sino's train to vote me.
Which would
a. reduce pressure on Sino (I don't believe town reads should be pressured because they slip up and get mislynched/outs TPRs.)
b. expose the scum, enhancing my reads
c. make the game more fun

Just so everyone knows, I never voted him up to L-2. I only brought Sino to L-3. I took this into consideration because I saw that in the setup there were 3 scum members.
And I agree, it was a bad move. How would I have known without testing it? (Okay, the answer to this question is to ask someone what optimal play is. But but.. the thrill of discovery!)

[Unknown1234]

Being short on arguments and what seemed to be shallow reads.

But I will say this was an early D1 scumread. You were not even remotely close to the strength of my SJ scumread D2.

I don't think that's true though, but I guess we will agree to disagree :P

[Calix]

I love ika saying that an uninformed role that can win with town being read as town is the hardest thing to do.

That is hilarious.

[ika]

My point is that he contradicted himself on several occasions when I was asking him "yo what's allowed with my BM?" and whatever..so how am I supposed to know what to do when he doesn't explain it properly?

I sent him like, 40 PMs.

The last PM he sent me before the mod-kill was "you can post normally because you're going to die at EOD" - how else do I take that but "hey I can post normally now because I'm dead anyway?"

then you should of taken it up to crpt/unknown (who was dead at the time), if everything loosk contradctpry ask an outside source (crypt who is fm admin) for what should be allowed or whats not.

its still the fault of both host and player at that point becasue again, its up to you to ask for more details and if needed, get a 3rd party involved to have it straigented out. and the falut of gyr for not seeing that himself or even asking.

but hey my sig is still a thing: host cant fix the stupid or random that happened

[ika]

I love ika saying that an uninformed role that can win with town being read as town is the hardest thing to do.

That is hilarious.

"im gonna discredit more becasue i cant prove my point and im sour about the game"

[Unknown1234]

I understand what you had planned with your reaction test, but you have to understand WHY the scum would vote you, which seemed to be missing.

[SilverWolf]

SJ suiciding into MZ was a bad move. Should of done Sino and removed a nearly confirmed town voice.

SP-I think your points on ika were weak. A lot of it was just playstyle. The only good point you had was that his posts didn't add a lot to the game. That was the area I was suspicious of him on. He's legit busy IRL which is why I did most of the posting in Mafia Wars.

One thing I can say for certain. I have a hard time dealing with ika when I'm scum. When I'm town, no problem.

[ika]

Sure, not knowing what was communicated between you and Gyrlander, if he didn't have it clear on what was allowed and what wasn't, that's another issue with the hosting. I.e. if you're going to run a complex mechanic like BM, you need to have the rules down pretty solidly.

which is why im askign for all the pms to be revealed. to see whos at fault

[MattZed]

consideing it got her killed and that neutral would of never targeted her. i disagree it was a bad move

if anything was a bad move was sucideing into you. @SuperJack said he was gonna bust sino and instead did you b/c he though you were neutral wich was litarly the worst play cus if you were town (as you are) it leave sino as the basic confimred town. if anything we could of left you alive as being scum after silver left or something

i also disagree that calix "reads" really convinced the town of anything. its more of the fact she is knwon to be a strong town player btu not as good as silverwolf convincing everyone she was town when she was the neutral.

when yoru neutral who cna convince people you are town thats the MVP play becasue thats the hardest thing to do

Yeah, half the reason I was taunting the kill onto me was because I wanted Sino to live. Also there was a 1/5 chance I became leader who would survive the kill, and I was feeling lucky.

A somewhat town-sidey neutral who might not even get lynched if they call acting as town isn't the hardest job. Scumhunting is harder. SW did well, but your argument seems to be "if the neutral wins, they should get MVP because their win is hard," which probably over-estimates how hard it is to win as neut. But Calix did the work of exactly pegging the scumteam and explaining why. Sure, she was sheeped more easily because of her reputation, but she still had to put it all out there in a convincing enough fashion, which is why I'm voting her MVP.

[Calix]

then you should of taken it up to crpt/unknown (who was dead at the time), if everything loosk contradctpry ask an outside source (crypt who is fm admin) for what should be allowed or whats not.

its still the fault of both host and player at that point becasue again, its up to you to ask for more details and if needed, get a 3rd party involved to have it straigented out. and the falut of gyr for not seeing that himself or even asking.

but hey my sig is still a thing: host cant fix the stupid or random that happened

"im gonna discredit more becasue i cant prove my point and im sour about the game"

You need to work on your trolling.

[ika]

SJ suiciding into MZ was a bad move. Should of done Sino and removed a nearly confirmed town voice.

SP-I think your points on ika were weak. A lot of it was just playstyle. The only good point you had was that his posts didn't add a lot to the game. That was the area I was suspicious of him on. He's legit busy IRL which is why I did most of the posting in Mafia Wars.

One thing I can say for certain. I have a hard time dealing with ika when I'm scum. When I'm town, no problem.

you have a hard time? god you should of seen me downstairs, i was clentching my fist constanly in frustration that i had to possibly maipulate you. but when i started to figre you were neutral it gave me an even bigger hell cus i was like "well fuck silver is gonna have to kill me but she wont wnt to"

[Unknown1234]

IKa, I want to know if you had a reason this game for asking people to come to you, instead of you coming to them. Can't across scum for me.

[Unknown1234]

Came across as scummy for me*

[DarknessB]

What was I thinking? I don't think I was thinking too hard. Sometimes, I like to be a scientist and experiment.
I was expecting the scum to come off of Sino's train to vote me.
Which would
a. reduce pressure on Sino (I don't believe town reads should be pressured because they slip up and get mislynched/outs TPRs.)
b. expose the scum, enhancing my reads
c. make the game more fun

Just so everyone knows, I never voted him up to L-2. I only brought Sino to L-3. I took this into consideration because I saw that in the setup there were 3 scum members.
And I agree, it was a bad move. How would I have known without testing it? (Okay, the answer to this question is to ask someone what optimal play is. But but.. the thrill of discovery!)

I'm going to take a deep breath before I yell. Breathe in, breathe out:

DUDE, WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU WANT PEOPLE TO START VOTING YOU. YOU'RE TOWN. THE IDEA IS TO PROVE TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE TOWN, NOT SHIFT VOTES ON YOURSELF GIVEN YOU KNOW YOU'RE TOWN. PLEASE ABANDON THIS HORRENDOUS STRATEGY WHICH HAS FAILED IN MULTIPLE GAMES NOW. IT'S FINE TO HAVE FUN, BUT WHEN YOU TANK EVERY GAME AS TOWN, IT MAKES THE OTHER TOWNIES NOT HAVE FUN ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ACT SUPER SCUMMY AND END UP FLIPPING TOWN EACH TIME!

SP, please man -- for the love of God. You seem like a nice person -- please just take this criticism to heart and stop doing this. There's almost never any good reason to act scummy to generate votes on yourself as a Town member. Please just do this for me or Calix or Unknown or anyone else who appreciates sensible Town play. No more deliberately scummy shit for discussion purposes. I'm begging you...

UPDATE: You tried something very similar in BFN and it failed miserably there too. There's really no reason ever to make yourself seem scummy, especially when you have issues being mislynched in games to begin with...

[ika]

You need to work on your trolling.

"im gonna discredit more because i cant prove my points"

[Calix]

I don't actually give a shit about the MVP. I had the scum pinned down by Day 2 despite being blackmailed. That's objectively true.

I don't need people defending or throwing shade there, there's nothing to discuss.

[Sino]

Yeah, half the reason I was taunting the kill onto me was because I wanted Sino to live. Also there was a 1/5 chance I became leader who would survive the kill, and I was feeling lucky.

A somewhat town-sidey neutral who might not even get lynched if they call acting as town isn't the hardest job. Scumhunting is harder. SW did well, but your argument seems to be "if the neutral wins, they should get MVP because their win is hard," which probably over-estimates how hard it is to win as neut. But Calix did the work of exactly pegging the scumteam and explaining why. Sure, she was sheeped more easily because of her reputation, but she still had to put it all out there in a convincing enough fashion, which is why I'm voting her MVP.

She also helped a great deal in having SJ suicide into you.