S-FM 195: In The World Of Music

[Mesk514]

actions speak louder than words. Still waiting for your grand post you have been talking about. You also have still refused to answer orpz's question. Is your plan to roll over and die when fire claims a check on you?

lol after this game i'll show you my grand post, so you can talk as much as you want my grand post is just irrelevant at this point.

Also, I answered orps.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

lol after this game i'll show you my grand post, so you can talk as much as you want my grand post is just irrelevant at this point.

Also, I answered orps.

Why is it irrelevant? Posting it now will help me see where your frame of mind was at the time. What have you done since that post came irrelevant that has helped town find mafia or what have you done that could get people to think in a way that would solve the game? I would say your best post is the possible worlds, but you don't really break it down in that post. I assume it was based on your follow up reads of

"Okay so I see it like this, Timeforce is the common denominator to everything so he should definitely be today's lynch.

Firebringer is a good player which is why I'm confused. I see his scummyness in every post but that's just cause that's who he is, which makes it somewhat of a challenge since if he's always scummy even when his role is not scum , how do you decipher between the too when his role is scum? With that being said,

Duck, has never really gone head to with Firebringer until now. If one of these is scum they are both scum, that's just how I see it.
If they are scum, they are really putting on a show at the moment, and it's really just drawing attention to one another.

Honestly, I've reread this thread like atleast 3 time from page 1-40 and nothing sticks out about Ice, even though It may just be his time zone. But it does strike me with being a little floaty, like hey everything's chill.

Ice's scum buddy is totally Kovath (talking if they're actually scum here!) Kovath's no role claim so far and his press for Firebringer seems scummy to me.

I also find it interesting how everyone was really quick to jump onto fire bringers role claim ready to question it, and dismiss it as a lie. The fact that the same attention wasn't thrown into questioning Ice tells me that potentially Firebringer can't be the Failed singer because his teammates wouldn't throw shade on him like that.

1) On timeforce what you said is pretty common thought, but it is the correct line of thinking so I am content with this
2) You don't really read fire based on anything he has done. You say he is good. Then you say he is scummy in every post, but thats just him? You continue to say things that don't help give a read or assertion on fire, you are playing the fence on him. What has he done THIS game that makes him town or mafia. You can use his previous games that you know as typical fire, but connect it to things he has done this game por favor.
3) I have done many things in this game and the only thing you mention on me today is that I dick ride kovath, and in this post that my questioning fire could be my partner? Why didn't you point out that day 1 I had fire in my town circle when our reads were complete opposite? That would have been very good to point out.
4) I agree with your view on iced and I like that you are actively trying to re read the game to hopefully reevaluate, this is the most town thing you have done.

[Whad]

Heeeeellllllooooo. Last night I was attacked. I meant to post this earlier but I got locked out and my phone ran out of batteries.

I'm in favor of discussion and no lynch today to give the PRs more time to collect results. I will probably die tomorrow, but that one extra night of actions I think may be illuminating for us.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Heeeeellllllooooo. Last night I was attacked. I meant to post this earlier but I got locked out and my phone ran out of batteries.

I'm in favor of discussion and no lynch today to give the PRs more time to collect results. I will probably die tomorrow, but that one extra night of actions I think may be illuminating for us.

hola

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

WE ARE NOT SLEEPING I FUCKING REPEAT WE ARE NOT SLEEPING IT GIVES MAFIA AUTO

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I am never going to be able to go to bed because everytime I am about to go people suggest the dumbest fucking ideas that I have ever fucking seen

[Whad]

I think it's interesting that no one's been audited or claimed Roleblocked today. Whad, who was in the night chat?

I put you and Kovath into the night chat. Did it not happen?

[Whad]

WE ARE NOT SLEEPING I FUCKING REPEAT WE ARE NOT SLEEPING IT GIVES MAFIA AUTO

What does "it gives mafia auto" mean?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

If we sleep the game ends

5V3 whad claims to be attacked, which means he cant be saved tonight and dies.

4v3, godfather audits me or mesk, we cant vote GAME ENDS IN A 3-3 VOTE NIGHT PHASE, ORPZ DIES GAME ENDS 3-3.

IS ANYBODY USING THEIR BRAIN HERE?

[Whad]

If we sleep the game ends

5V3 whad claims to be attacked, which means he cant be saved tonight and dies.

4v3, godfather audits me or mesk, we cant vote GAME ENDS IN A 3-3 VOTE NIGHT PHASE, ORPZ DIES GAME ENDS 3-3.

IS ANYBODY USING THEIR BRAIN HERE?

Oh ok. I didn't realize audited Normal fans lose a vote. Good point.

[Whad]

I'm a little concerned that my chat yesterday seems to not have gone through due to a moderator error.

[Whad]

I can see a world in which Fire and Iced are both scum.

Let's look at all the PR results so far though:
Scenario 1: Fire is town
This would mean that Fire pulled a ridiculous gambit not only on D1, but like every other day with the fake claims galore. If Fire is town though, then Iced_Monopoly is scum (N1 check) and Kovath is town (N2 check)

The roles would look something like:
Singer-Orpz
Manager-Whad
Cigar Fan - Firebringer
??? - Kovath
Duck/Mesk

Iced_Monopoly
Time_Force (scum by PoE since he would have cleared Duck and Mesk of no movement)
Duck/Mesk

TimeForce - N1 Duckk no movement, N2 Mesk no movement

Scenario 2: Iced_Monopoly is town
Singer - Orpz
Manager - Whad
Cigar Fan - Iced_Monopoly
Duck/Mesk/Kovath
Duck/Mesk/Kovath

Firebringer - scum via Iced_Monopoly (N2)
Time_Force - Their results directly confirm Duck and Mesk as VT so by POE TF must be scum
Duck/Mesk/Kovath

Scenario 3: Time_Force is town
Singer - Orpz
Manager - Whad
Stalker Fan - Time_Force
VT - Duck
VT - Mesk

Kovath
Iced_Monopoly
Firebringer (all by POE)

Since Kovath and Iced were both RB'ed N1 and the kill went through, I'm not that inclined to believe in Scenario 3 in which Kovath, Iced_Monopoly, and Firebringer are the 3 scum and they happened to send Firebringer (who imo is more likely to have been blocked by a townie than the other two). Thus, I'm liking TimeForce as our lynch today.

[Whad]

Consider my vote on TimeForce. I also don't like the train of Iced_Monopoly and TimeForce on Firebringer right now. Since it's MYLO, if (and this is a big if) they were both townies, scum could come on and hammer for the win.

[Orpz]

We are lynching TimeForce today.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Going to try to sleep now. Will do a full ISO in the morning, but a brief look I am leaning towards fire being the cop and the world is exactly time/iced/mesk. I will have to decide in the morning if fire (who hates people fake claiming as town) fake claims manager as cop then rescinds and does not defend himself when the mason wants his head. The reason I am leaning towards believing him is I did see several hints that would show he had a red check on Iced, and with last wills on I could see him taking this gamble even If I don't agree with it. I will have to look into this more when I can function though. pce out cub scouts

[Kovath]

Consider my vote on TimeForce. I also don't like the train of Iced_Monopoly and TimeForce on Firebringer right now. Since it's MYLO, if (and this is a big if) they were both townies, scum could come on and hammer for the win.

It has been pointed out numerous times by both myself and DUCKK that a vote on either of the copclaimers is suboptimal in this situation. I find it somewhat disturbing that both of the cop claimers are voting each other rather than not-voting at the moment because of the potential for a quick-hammer, so I can't use it on either of them as a scum-tell.

TimeForce is 100% confirmed scum so anything he says or does means nothing.

[Kovath]

Going to try to sleep now. Will do a full ISO in the morning, but a brief look I am leaning towards fire being the cop and the world is exactly time/iced/mesk. I will have to decide in the morning if fire (who hates people fake claiming as town) fake claims manager as cop then rescinds and does not defend himself when the mason wants his head. The reason I am leaning towards believing him is I did see several hints that would show he had a red check on Iced, and with last wills on I could see him taking this gamble even If I don't agree with it. I will have to look into this more when I can function though. pce out cub scouts

I think this is a double-sided issue, but to play devil's advocate I don't see a world in which you don't reveal a red check on D2. As pointed out, we have someone who can protect from all night results. You force the red check to counterclaim on that day, so we for sure will at least get one scum rather than today when we had lynched Sino and are thus in MyLo. If we decided right and lynch the scum cc-er first instead of the real cop, the cop is confirmed, gets another check in the night, and we're off to the races.

If Firebringer was the real cop and thought that he was going to die for sure in the night following his claim, it's honestly somewhat unsettling to me how little effort he would have had to have put into reading the game setup.

[Kovath]

If I was cop, I think through all these things, I look at the roles list to scan for protectives (and framer / redirecter / detect immune types), including reading the rolecard of this setup's signature role, and I make my judgment from there.

For Whad: If I was scum, I sure did a thorough job eviscerating my teammate TimeForce's claim today.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I think this is a double-sided issue, but to play devil's advocate I don't see a world in which you don't reveal a red check on D2. As pointed out, we have someone who can protect from all night results. You force the red check to counterclaim on that day, so we for sure will at least get one scum rather than today when we had lynched Sino and are thus in MyLo. If we decided right and lynch the scum cc-er first instead of the real cop, the cop is confirmed, gets another check in the night, and we're off to the races.

If Firebringer was the real cop and thought that he was going to die for sure in the night following his claim, it's honestly somewhat unsettling to me how little effort he would have had to have put into reading the game setup.

We need to hear from iced, but he is drunk right.....

You mentioned in one of those three posts not being able to trust Timeforce since he is confirmed mafia, so do we just ignore his vote, assume he is voting his teammate, or that he is going for a mislynch and win. I can't see him actually believing town will lynch a real cop claim today, but if he knows that then does he reverse meta it. It might be a big meta circle but we should not disregard it, but note it and compare it within the totality of the circumstances tomorrow. It might mean nothing on its own, but maybe we can see something that indicates he actually was just going for the win, or he was actually fucking with us.

I will not be able to do my ISO until midday around lynch time, but just examining his checks from what I remember about the game they seem odd. N1 iced n2 kovath. His reasoning on iced is absolutely trash tier but it actually was a good check. His logic is garbage, his check is great.... so I need to re read and see where this logic may have come from. The check on you is also perfect, I don't remember if he stated a reason. You were fence for me all game, only today have you stepped up your play. Your not willing to hammer making us lose a mislynch if sino doesn't would make you a good check, also I dont know if you even claimed you are vt yet so that is another reason checking you is good.

The complicated part becomes if Fire is cop, why does he push on somebody who wont die without hard claiming he is a cop. The singer probably healed whad night1 so he is guaranteed the check on you if he outs iced so there is no reason to not o


Shit half my post got deleted when I copy pasted because I forgot to hit send.

I will post more when I am back today.

[Kovath]

IMO if FB really wanted to check me he should have done it N1 since that's when I was already hard-scumreading and pressuring him all day (plus not hammering SP), not do it N2 after the crappy Sino lynch. Nor is the argument that I could have died in the first night makes any sense as an excuse. If he's actually cop, he has two possibilities to consider: I'm scum and therefore won't die in the night, or I'm town and hard scumreading a townie.

And really, neither of these cops decided to check TimeForce? Although, with this noted it's more of a strike against FB (with his two checks) than Iced with his one check.

[Kovath]

Iced_Monopoly is lurking pretty hard.

Both of these cops are doing a great job of convincing us they're town.

[Orpz]

Iced_Monopoly is lurking pretty hard.

Both of these cops are doing a great job of convincing us they're town.

Pretty much. Iced is going to be lynched after TimeForce.

[Firebringer]

Iced_Monopoly is lurking pretty hard.

Both of these cops are doing a great job of convincing us they're town.

Says the person who has scumread me since day fucking one.

[Kovath]

I want to make a point here that I made on D2 but completely forgot until now.

I was Consort-blocked N1. The other scum minion performed the night kill. Iced_Monopoly was roleblocked by Calix.

If Iced_Monopoly is the scum of the two cop claims, then he can only be the Failed Singer.

I need to think a bit more about how that interacts with the different scenarios.

[Kovath]

What is the interaction if one RB-er targets the other one, who is trying to RB someone else?

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Pretty much. Iced is going to be lynched after TimeForce.

I am leaning towards this a swell but I find it odd neither cop claim is doing a massive ISO on the other to discredit them

I shod be home soon

[Mesk514]

I am leaning towards this a swell but I find it odd neither cop claim is doing a massive ISO on the other to discredit them

I shod be home soon

Shut up duck, you're basically admitting you're scum.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

Shut up duck, you're basically admitting you're scum.

Second time you have posted this, still have yet to back it with anything. We will deal with you days from now, dont worry.

[Firebringer]

This is likely my last post for this game day.
I maybe able to post from phone this weekend, but don't count on it.

Host if you need to replace me d oso.

I am not moving my vote.
We are lynching Iced or Me.

ALthough I think Time is scum, I am not compromising with you guys today cause you all fucked up yesterday to do that with me.

If I die you all know who I checked and everythin gso I leave you with this:

"I wish you good fortune for all wars to come"

[Kovath]

This is likely my last post for this game day.
I maybe able to post from phone this weekend, but don't count on it.

Host if you need to replace me d oso.

I am not moving my vote.
We are lynching Iced or Me.

ALthough I think Time is scum, I am not compromising with you guys today cause you all fucked up yesterday to do that with me.

If I die you all know who I checked and everythin gso I leave you with this:

"I wish you good fortune for all wars to come"

So be it.

I will just provide this last comment in response to this post.

In the world you have, where you are town, I am town, and Iced is scum, there are two remaining scum among the group Mesk, DUCK, and TimeForce. Can TimeForce be the last remaining town in this group? No, it is impossible. He claims two no-action checks on both Duck and Mesk. Both of those players cannot be scum because, as already has been pointed out multiple times, both scum minions performed actions the first night and no Singer would ever skip a night action. Lastly, as I have also proved, if Iced_Monopoly is scum, then (unless Gyrlander surprises me with the ruling on the RB-er interaction) he is Failed Singer, which also prevents this possibility. Therefore, TimeForce, in your world, is absolutely 100% confirmed scum (you have no reason to distrust my N1 RB claim since I am confirmed town for you).

You are aware of this. You are aware that the only acceptable lynch as put forward by the three confirmed town players is TimeForce. You are aware that a potential 50/50 lynch on a cop counterclaim is always an inferior play to lynching someone who is 100% scum and ensuring another day for town and another round of checks for the cops, also 100% preventing the Singer from getting rbed tonight.

Despite your awareness of all these facts, you continue to cling to an Iced lynch, saying that a TimeForce lynch will be impossible without your help and scum bussing. If you are town, then you are ensuring either an inferior lynch or a no-lynch instead of a player who is 100% confirmed scum both for everyone else and for YOU IN YOUR WORLD. In this way, you are directly playing AGAINST YOUR WIN CONDITION.

Therefore, you are either gamethrowing or scum.

[Orpz]

This is likely my last post for this game day.
I maybe able to post from phone this weekend, but don't count on it.

Host if you need to replace me d oso.

I am not moving my vote.
We are lynching Iced or Me.

ALthough I think Time is scum, I am not compromising with you guys today cause you all fucked up yesterday to do that with me.

If I die you all know who I checked and everythin gso I leave you with this:

"I wish you good fortune for all wars to come"

Don't be this cucked. There is literally no reason to not vote TimeForce from a Sheriff's point of view.

[Kovath]

Don't be this cucked. There is literally no reason to not vote TimeForce from a Sheriff's point of view.

I'm 95% sure he's scum.

We're going to lynch TimeForce regardless but this play by him isn't even anti-town anymore. A cop-claim-lynch today instead of TimeForce is pro-scum.

[Orpz]

Sheriff claims tonight will check one of the following:
Mesk

[Kovath]

Sheriff claims tonight will check one of the following:
Mesk

Both check Mesk or do you mean Mesk / PLZLEAVEDUCKK?

I want to see Iced's vote move to TimeForce when he next comes on.

[Orpz]

Both check Mesk or do you mean Mesk / PLZLEAVEDUCKK?

I want to see Iced's vote move to TimeForce when he next comes on.

I would like both to check Mesk because the way they present their results will be of great insight on who the scum really is, even if it sacrifices some flexibility.

[Orpz]

I would like both to check Mesk because the way they present their results will be of great insight on who the scum really is, even if it sacrifices some flexibility.

This game doesn't need to be solved by follow the cop, especially if we haven't solved who the cop is

I mean, it's a pretty clear choice at this point, but let's give Iced a chance to defend himself.

[Kovath]

This game doesn't need to be solved by follow the cop, especially if we haven't solved who the cop is

I mean, it's a pretty clear choice at this point, but let's give Iced a chance to defend himself.

Aye. It's also a clear argument for allowing the cops to live another night rather than trying to pop the Gordian knot today.

Now, once we do make a choice between the cop claims, the game will be completely determined because we will find out who is the real one, that will then tell us which of Mesk/DUCKK is the townie.

So it's the same conclusion again: there is no world in which lynching a cop claimer today is superior or even equal.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

This game doesn't need to be solved by follow the cop, especially if we haven't solved who the cop is

I mean, it's a pretty clear choice at this point, but let's give Iced a chance to defend himself.

Why is fire not willing to lynch a confirmed mafia though? He has auto in his world by lynching time/iced/mesk or me. He was willing to vote timeforce yesterday when he already had the red check, so what has changed?

[Kovath]

Why is fire not willing to lynch a confirmed mafia though? He has auto in his world by lynching time/iced/mesk or me. He was willing to vote timeforce yesterday when he already had the red check, so what has changed?

I'm not sure what's going on here, since I went back to look at Day 2 and FB's actions that day make little sense in conjunction with today.

Simultaneously, FB's actions today make no sense as a town player, but at the same time him being scum makes a little less sense than town for D2 given his vote on TimeForce. The Sino train built up really quickly, after all, and at the end of day.

It's a bit puzzling overall.

[PLZLEAVEDUCKK]

I'm not sure what's going on here, since I went back to look at Day 2 and FB's actions that day make little sense in conjunction with today.

Simultaneously, FB's actions today make no sense as a town player, but at the same time him being scum makes a little less sense than town for D2 given his vote on TimeForce. The Sino train built up really quickly, after all, and at the end of day.

It's a bit puzzling overall.

What do you make of his "Time is not a day1 lynch" post. With how time was reacting that early on do you see anything that fire could see as towny being a new player and town? Then his fake claim is to push a lynch on secondpassing and once he rescinds he spams that he wont stop until you are lynched? I don't know if fire is this suicidal as mafia. However I cant get over the comment on time. Him faking manager after telling me that manager should not out day 1 is also bizarre.

[Kovath]

What do you make of his "Time is not a day1 lynch" post. With how time was reacting that early on do you see anything that fire could see as towny being a new player and town? Then his fake claim is to push a lynch on secondpassing and once he rescinds he spams that he wont stop until you are lynched? I don't know if fire is this suicidal as mafia. However I cant get over the comment on time. Him faking manager after telling me that manager should not out day 1 is also bizarre.

I scumread pretty much most of what Firebringer did on day 1, including his spam rage against me. I consider it as a different kind of spam rage than you were about to erupt into against Mesk yesterday, since FB did it only because I was scumreading him and after a (what I consider) bad gambit play.

I'm meh on the Time d1 lynch thing. I was light-townreading Time for similar things at the time. It's something to consider but I can't give a hard read on it.

Again, I honestly just can't make heads or tails of what Firebringer is doing this game.

[Firebringer]

The drive...

-vote TimeForce

Everyone can suck it.

[Orpz]

Alright let's roll this lynch out. I gotta peace out for the rest of the day.

[Mesk514]

-vote TimeForce

[Kovath]

I'm putting my vote in, and Whad should hammer when he comes in.
@Ice d, I see you lurking dude.

[Kovath]

Err, that was the wrong Iced_Monopoly... though Mesk has voted now so TF is at L-1.

I'm thinking we should let Whad check in one last time before hammering.

Also, the night chat pick is very obvious at the moment.

[Mesk514]

who ever the real cop is should check me and prove my innocence please!!!

[Kovath]

who ever the real cop is should check me and prove my innocence please!!!

Both of em are supposed to check you tonight, so just chill at home for the night.

We'll figure out the real cop and get to the bottom of this real quick.

[Mesk514]

Err, that was the wrong Iced_Monopoly... though Mesk has voted now so TF is at L-1.

I'm thinking we should let Whad check in one last time before hammering.

Also, the night chat pick is very obvious at the moment.

Just put your vote in, there's nothing Whad can do. It's already been established that Timeforce is scum.

[Mesk514]

Both of em are supposed to check you tonight, so just chill at home for the night.

We'll figure out the real cop and get to the bottom of this real quick.

I'm a normal fan... I party at home every night.

Me & My Hilary Duff